From StopBaptistPredators.org comes this interesting article about the failure on the part of the leadership of First Baptist Atlanta to inform the congregation that a prior children's minister who had worked at their church for 19 years had sexually abused children while on staff at at least one Texas church. While there is no evidence that anyone at FBCA knew about this man's past while he was on staff, the question is, why didn't they inform the congregation once they did know? Imagine how many children this man was in contact with during those 19 years!Yet when three representatives of S.N.A.P. tried to pass out flyers to congregants leaving the Atlanta church one Sunday, security guards tried to run them off. It's not known how much of a background check, if any, the staff of FBCA did on Tommy Gilmore before hiring him, but with the "code of silence" so prevalent in the SBC and other denominations, it's doubtful a routine background check would have turned up anything. But people in Texas knew. Yet they said nothing.
Read more about Tommy Gilmore and his trail of victims here.
623 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 623 Newer› Newest»Thanks Junkster,
That was concise and helpful.
I think a whole thread could be devoted to a determined code of ethics and integrity for ministers and other office of administrative power, in keeping with your articles of faith; and how one might demonstrate both resolve and compassion when navigating conflict.
I'm a little uncomfortable with some of the attitudes exhibited here towards the merely niave or the dude lacking good judgement in defending the exhaustive power of his savior. It is no reflection upon NBBCOF or the fulfilment of its purpose, but I would like to see a little more kindness.
As a survivor myself, I cannot fathom how those that remain loyal would ever trust Gaines to be an effective leader, very less Pastor; but I would never make the leap in presuming that the same condones a pedophile on staff or the circle of ministers that guarded the dirty little secret.
I don't know why they still trust Gaines (sans an authentic investigation, the loyal will fill those gaps with "situational ethics" and the cynical will presume hidden folly), but I don't understand a lot of things in the world--but let's not collude that with the horrible stain of minimizing or justifying sexual abuse.
When I was a child, my father beat me mercilessly, and my mother knew this was going on, had witnessed it, and had been on the recieving end of the same explosive temper--yet, even after my parents split, circumstances prevented my mom from really acknowledging the abuse or doing anything about it for many years to follow.
Both my father and mother are flawed individuals, as is my inheritance, yet I love them and I know they love me. My father's patriarchial arrogance and my mother's fearful acquiesence were wrong; but in hindsight, my suffering was just a reflection of their own, inherited from their own want and abuse as children.
It is possible to eschew the balogney (not you, doctor) while acknowledging the humanity and frailty of our tormentors and antagonists.
If it's Ace or 4545, then heck, I'll be right next to you making sure to help stem the onslaught; but otherwise, be sure to be kind, even if it means quiet stoicism.
I only say this because I care so much for you.
David
That's the sweet cakes I know and love.......
Hey Junk,
Nice job summarizing the GBC and Bellevue situations. Concise and accurate.
Junkster said...
Cakes said...
Why is Germantown in such a state and what does it have to do with the situation at Bellevue? I catch glimpses, but I don't think I've gathered a full picture of the context.
A lot is involved, but I'll try to summarize ... hope I state this correctly so as not to offend anyone from GBC who might be reading.
========================
Excellent summation! I give you an A+. :-)
CAKES,
David,
There you go again.... Reaching in and taking the words right out of my mouth. How dare you.... that is, just so not nice.
Really.... naive people and ignorant people and immature people were someone’s precious tiny baby once who we now treat carelessly "just" because they are older. I know you didn’t say it this way but this is what I think sometimes when I read some of the comments on this blog.
("Just" is in quotes so that you know that I know that this word in this context signifies that ones age does not determine another’s response but rather when these responses occur.)
Thanks for stating your observations “thusly and like so”.
Padroc
You know, I hate to use the word "wow" yet I'm having difficulty coming up with a better one. Junk's summary and Cakes' admonition, and Padroc's reminder....all are right on and extremely well stated. It's so easy to get caught up in the heat of righteous indignation and forget about the love that we should be showing to those who just don't seem to "get it."
And yet, a further rub is that we see our churches falling away from scripture, and believers not being fed, and those same believers not studying for themselves. It's just so hard to comprehend and stand by silently.
"Which raises some questions which I have thought, but hesitated to ask, but I might as well – could it be that the whole concept of mega-churches is inherently flawed?"
You ask the same questions I have thought about deeply for the last few years. Grace and Bethleham are both mega churches. (McArthur and Piper)
FBC Muscle Shoals is getting close to being a mini-mega with...a 1000 members...right ima?
All three of these churches preach the full Gospel and exposit scripture with no apologies.
What I think the hardest thing about being a mega is maintaining transparancy and humility. The money flows, you get invited to speak (even staffers get invited to speak) alot because everyone assumes you are doing something right because of the numbers. They think numbers = success.
The other thing about a mega that concerns me is that you end up hiring and paying people to do what should be done by the members of the Body using their spiritual gifts to edify the entire Body. You end up with an audience and not a Body.
Think of this teaching in relation to how things usually work at a mega. Pay close attention to verse 24:
1 Corin 12
20But now there are many members, but one body.
21And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you."
22On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary;
23and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable,
24whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked,
25so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.
But the problem with most mega's (not all) is just plain old sin and the lack of preaching the full gospel.
Most mega's are more concerned with preaching about lifestyle than they are teaching the Word. Or, like Warren or Gaines they take scripture out of context to fit a premise.
It also becomes a viscious cycle of once you have the big numbers doing whatever it takes to grow and keep the numbers up. This means lots of 'programs' and events to draw them in.
You won't draw in the crowds to hear an exegesis on Zecharia. :o)
Think of this...what you hear out of many seeker mega's is they are reaching the 'unchurched'. Even the language they use is suspect...we need to reach the lost and the lost may be sitting in the pews.
tmyjcdimaresistor said...
May we all please be in prayer for the the families and friends of the victims and the survivors, the multiple injured, the rescue workers, etc. involved in the terrible tragedy that occurred at 6:05pm in Minneapolis, Minnesota, with the collapse of the bridge over the Mississippi River. This is a terrible tragic thing to have happened. Let us just all be in prayer.
My response:
Please read this carefully,
I learned yesterday that my nephew who lives in the area of this tragedy,had just crossed the bridge 10 minutes before it fell and his co worker was only five minutes across.
Please! I do not want you to take what I am about to say as you have in the past. I am so encouraged by the some of this mornings postings because this is the sort of Spirit that we are to have toward one another. Please read James 3,4 and 5. There is a message for BBC and GBC and all of the body of Christ.
With all of my heart, often messing up torn between my Spirit and wicked flesh, I have tried to convey this message.
This world is in a terrible mess and our churches are in a terrible mess WHY? Because we do NOT obey our Lord's Word. We are ALL in a mess together and all of this fighting and fussing over what we think is right and wrong is worthless and is hindering our own healing and safety. When we are fighting within Satan is busy taking aim and WE are so distracted that we do not even notice until he hits.
Some have accused me of being one sided and I am but the one side I am clinging to is Jesus Christ and His Holy Word because I know that is the answer to problems.
Yes, I have said, "if you do not support and love our pastor and adminstration it would be best for you to leave" this in no way means that I and many others do not love you and wish that you stay.
I would not take the time to come to this site, read the post, write down each name and pray for you if I did not care for all of my church family.
With the horrible things going on in this world we should all work toward building up the kingdom of God instead of destroying it.
To answer some of you who will say: "I thought she could not come out of the gate" The Lord called me to the gate this morning and said to go out and speak these things to the people." He said, "He stands at the gate and all who wish to enter may come enter in." Note: I am not saying that any of you are lost and with out Jesus I am saying that you are not united with the congregation where you normally worship. Please I beg you, do not sit and pick this posting to find flaws with me I am not your enemy!
Billie
Lin: Good points. (I knew you would have great insight because of your previous job at a mega.)
If we, as Christians and as a church, lived differently than the world, we would be drawing folks to us just by their desire to see what makes us different and to live a better life. Why do we look exactly like the world? The church is now run like a Fortune 500 company, just like the world. It's not different. People get divorced within churches at the same rate as those not "religious." Statistics show our kids get into the same trouble as the non-churched. We should be set apart and different. I think megas have a harder time with this because there is no way teaching can be scrutinized when there are 100's of teachers, as an example.
But Lin is right. Lin said: "The other thing about a mega that concerns me is that you end up hiring and paying people to do what should be done by the members of the Body using their spiritual gifts to edify the entire Body. You end up with an audience and not a Body." Service aids maturity and grows dedication. It's about commitment and personal responsibilty.
Bille: You are right; you are not the enemy. The enemy is Satan. The aid to Satan is those who ignore the Word of God. The aid to Satan is those who flaunt disobedience of the Word of God. The aid to Satan is those who support men and not God.
The concern is that many are being misled by those who don't hold to the whole scripture of God. We must have personal responsibility and hold accountable our leadership, for our integrity.
(I'm glad your nephew is okay.)
Ms. Billie,
I'm thankful your nephew and his co-worker are safe.
Right, Lin!
Ms. Billie,
This statement colludes two issues:
"We are ALL in a mess together and all of this fighting and fussing over what we think is right and wrong is worthless and is hindering our own healing and safety."
"Fussing and fighting" are not the same as weighing what is "right and wrong." You seem to be saying that scruting of Bellevue's leadership by people deeply invested in BBC and GBC, or those like me who are concerned for children, is the devil's work, and that is where you are wrong and frankly, antagonistic.
You presume too much, then sanctify it as though you hold the moral high ground. The scrutiny directed at leadership is warranted on several overwhelmingly factual points, and all the scripture and religion-speak in the world won't diminish those facts.
If you wish to be loyal, great, but don't presume everyone should be nor that they should play nice, and leave quietly the church they love and to which they have contributed, as if they should behave like obidient little school-children.
You may be an awesome Sunday School teacher, but keep in mind, today is not Sunday, nor are you everyone's teacher.
me thinks what the Church needs is an old fashioned, Holy Ghost revival. Whatever that is! Baptists used to have them so don't go into a spiritual cardiac arrest. Problem is in this day and time we have all the answers for everything! Truth is we only know a few of the questions.
Very well put Cakes...I totally agree.
Ms. Billie....I am truly thankful that your nephew and his coworker are ok.
"me thinks what the Church needs is an old fashioned, Holy Ghost revival."
You know what? I think there IS a revival going on. It just does not 'look' like the revivals we are used to seeing. It is not man planned and directed.
Everyday, I am talking to people coming out of shallow and apostate churches searching for a true Body of Believers. These are not people leaving their church because they do not like the music. It is much more serious than that. I even know a few who are staying in their shallow church on purpose to do missions within the church! It is the Holy Spirit convicting individuals.
I know of at least 10 people right now across the country who have hooked up online for deep Bible study. I know a few who are starting home churches because they cannot find a teaching church in their area.
I truly believe the Body of Christ is alive and well. It just does not look like what we expect it to look like.
Ms. Billie, Praise God your nephew was spared this horrible tragedy. I hope that every person who died yesterday was saved unto Christ.
None of us ever know, do we? We must be ready. When I saw the pictures yesterday, I was reminded of Luke 13.
Lin: I have seen the same remnant coming out of our college age generation. These kids are tired of the surface junk (nothing personal, junk!) They are reading and searching and studying and sp[eaking up. Granted, numbers are small but I do see a remnant coming out.
Just wondering
If BBC is going to start paying SS teachers, will those SS teachers who have been volunteering their time now want to be paid as well?
How will their " production" be measured? Will their " numbers" be scrutinized to see if they are ' producing"?
That sounds like an entirely new department..I can forsee many problems in this, mainly the measuring of ' productivity', which will reflect corporate america.
Oh well, not my problem anymore :)
SOTL wrote:
"If BBC is going to start paying SS teachers, will those SS teachers who have been volunteering their time now want to be paid as well?"
Perhaps those members of the BBC orchestra who still volunteer their time are in a better position to answer that question.
lin said:
The other thing about a mega that concerns me is that you end up hiring and paying people to do what should be done by the members of the Body using their spiritual gifts to edify the entire Body. You end up with an audience and not a Body.
------------------------
Exactly! I agree 100 per cent.
Another point of agreement - maybe we aren't so far apart after all.
I learned at GBC many people stepped up to the plate and volunteered during the crisis, and to this present day, to fill positions that were previously hired out. This has worked for the church's good in that it has caused more of a dependence upon the Lord and on each other.
===============
Miss Billie,
I too am thankful your nephew and his co-worker escaped harm.
-------------------
Cakes,
Thank you for your words of admonition. I'm sorry about your painful past. (Mine was similar so I understand.) You have obviously conquered anger and bitterness.
It's a freeing thing when we can let go of the injustices of the past. Bitterness and anger hold us hostage and are like acid eating up its own container
(A. Rogers).
A lady missionary came to Bellevue one time and I will never forget her. She was a true missionary -
giving her entire life to the people in the country where she served. During WW II she was repeatedly brutally raped over a period of several weeks by invading soldiers.
She said the Lord spoke to her during that terrible time: "Tho' they are desecrating your body, they can never desecrate My Spirit within you." That's a good word for us today - nothing can separate us from God's love and no one can desecrate His Spirit within us.
Lin said, " I know a few who are starting home churches because they cannot find a teaching church in their area."
The group who came out of my former church when we did are traveling out of state to a church on Sundays. During the middle of the week we are doing 'home church' if you will. We are referring to it now as 'Group Bible Study'. It is so very rewarding. We are still getting settled into this, but plan to start inviting others to it. I am being fulfilled din ways I never was in attending church as we all know it. I have suggested home church to all of you many times. You might want to try something similar. We all take part. It is very good.
Ima,
When I have been my most down,my daughter always says...mom,get your remnant friends together weekly or every 2 weeks and study together!! I think many of us are at a better place where we could feasibly do this.
How do yall do it....do you change houses? Do you study chapters of the Bible (I know you don't use Lifeway aids:)) Do people take turns sort of leading???? What works?
"I learned at GBC many people stepped up to the plate and volunteered during the crisis, and to this present day, to fill positions that were previously hired out. This has worked for the church's good in that it has caused more of a dependence upon the Lord and on each other."
That is great and as it should be! Too bad they could not find one or two among themselves to preach. We don't have to always bring in big names!
Yippee! How did I get on?
Ima,
HomeChurch has been such a blessing to us. We're struggling with harmony for our hymns (since we only have 1 him) but the fellowship is sweet and attendance is very consistent!
Get started in home discipleship habits with your family These are free/inexpensive resources, if anyone is interested in worship/study at home!
We are using
* 365 Key Chapters in a Year - Devotionals for Families with Young Children
* The Christian Leaders Home Discipleship Hymnbook
* Accompaniment CD’s
-------------------------------------
I've seen lots of humble, Christ-honoring posts here today. Let's keep it up!
-------------------------------------
Cakes, I haven't gotten to meet you yet, but I have utmost respect for you as a person! (hug - One-armed hug, 'cause I AM a married woman! :o)
-------------------------------------
NASS, I am SOOOO confused about you. Just when I think I have you figured out, I discover that you are KING of your parents' basement. Who knew?
just sayin'
:o)
Ms Billie,
For whatever reason....I have not wanted to be ugly to you even tho some times I thought what you posted sounded degrading to us. I appreciate you spelling out what you did today.
We can't change your mind about what has gone on at BBC or convince you that the wrong done has been minimized or mishandled.
I have people I care about who are still at BBC and we don't agree on everything, however they are respectful of my position about the entire PW ordeal(and hate that it affected my life personally) and I am respectful that they feel they are doing the right thing by supporting the leadership on whatever level they believe they should.
I am working with some precious people right now who had no idea what I have been thru and SEE problems at BBC but just never realized the full impact even this one thing had on people's lives.
They only knew what they heard in church and SS and I am not mad at them for that.
I hope I can speak with clarity and kindness when I say that I will never see the PW scandal/abuse/cover up as right or not a big deal.
I don't think you are evil if you do.
I can't be buddies with you because this is such a crucial issue for me but I don't think you are "unsaved" or of the devil or trash.
I don't think unity is anywhere near as important as being obedient to God's Word and standing for the things we are convicted by scripture and in our hearts to stand for.
For me ...that can't be for a person,the leadership, or even the church home I have had for over 25 years.
It's taken me time to get to this place...I am a very black and white person and I tell my friend I am going to learn to be medium some day!!!! But I will never be medium on that particular issue.
But as cakes and padroc and john the baptist have all said and I'm sure others....do we have to think and treat each other as if one side is evil.
NOW....some that come on here have sure acted like that.
And I won't lie and tell you that a few haven't pressed the button in me that screams danger!
We have no "leader"...we don't meet in groups and get a script filled with words like dessenters(??) and slander and liars or you don't have the Holy spirit or we are sowers of discord.
It does seem like most people as passionate as you are, do say some of the same things like that.
The person that yelled at me not too long ago didn't realize how hurtful it was to tell me that the church was being cleansed...of people like me....the church I have loved and served in and watched my children grow up in.
Maybe we are all getting to a place where we can communicate our positions AND be more respectful.
Tin Lizzie said, "Ima, HomeChurch has been such a blessing to us."
Reply: Music to my ears! If I may ask, are you doing this on Sundays? What is your routine?
tn lizzie said:
NASS, I am SOOOO confused about you. Just when I think I have you figured out, I discover that you are KING of your parents' basement. Who knew?
just sayin'
oc says:
NASS is the king of all he surveys.
He is king of the blog, king of his parents basement,
and he is king of the trollin' lakes too. Lizzie, you didn't know that? Where have you been?
BTW. Watch that 'Just sayin' stuff. It may put you into the category of consorting with a questionable character.
Just sayin'.
oc.
OK...not fare...did all my friends go and get a life without me??!!!!
GMommy: I'm still here! (Of course, I was at the Mall last night!!)
For all my Tennessee and near to Tennessee friends, remember that the tax free weekendend started today and goes through Sunday. Theoretically it's for back to school stuff, but it works for anyone buying the approved items! Check the newspaper for the list.
Sorry for the interruption.:)
Proceed.
concernedSBCer said...
For all my Tennessee and near to Tennessee friends, remember that the tax free weekendend started today and goes through Sunday. Theoretically it's for back to school stuff, but it works for anyone buying the approved items! Check the newspaper for the list.
Sorry for the interruption.:)
Proceed.
7:42 AM, August 03, 2007
Perfect timing too. I need to get me a new computer because my main computer is busted!!!
Lynn wrote:
"Perfect timing too. I need to get me a new computer because my main computer is busted!!!"
Just don't buy one that costs more than $1500 or you'll have to pay the sales tax. I notice they've added "art supplies" to the list this year.
Anyone know if other states do this as well? Mississippi doesn't but I am thinking Alabama does.
What all is on the lists in TN? And is there a limit? Don't guess I could go and buy myself a new mink today? What about a motorcycle? *I am kidding* My guess is we are talking school supplies, clothes...and yes, maybe computers? Obvious I don't get a TN paper.
Ima
Folks...you'll just have to excuse us a few minutes. Women and sales are synonymous.
A prayer request on Slice of Laodicea from Ingrid Schlueter:
"A Prayer Request... I have a special request for prayer regarding VCY America Operations Manager, Gordon Morris. Gordon and his wife Carol have worked at VCY America since I was a child. Gordon is suffering from a severe infection that set in after being bit by a bat two weeks ago. Despite being on antibiotics, the infection in his hand has grown and he is now hospitalized. Even since last night, the infection has continued to climb up his arm. Gordon is the man behind all of the technical operations in radio and is a dear brother in Christ. We are praying for his full recovery. Your prayers are deeply appreciated."
This blog reaches a lot of people...let us all join together in prayer for Gordon Morris.
ima,
Read about it here.
ima wrote:
"Anyone know if other states do this as well?"
These.
The CDC(of course they never confirmed that they were) returned me blindfolded to Memphis this morning. It seems that my voracious appetite and extreme tolerance for tainted and rancid meats were beginning to 'eat' into their budget. I thoroughly enjoyed my 'mission', except for the 'mystery' meat regiment(it caused smoke to come out of my mouth when I belched). And I'll sorta miss the 'billy club' beatings administered on a regular basis by the cold-handed orderlies.
They thought that I might have a genetic trait that caused my meat borne 'ism' immunity, but blood tests revealed that it is due to the unprecedented high levels of radiation in my body...in hindsight I guess the barrels of 'sludge' I used for lighting while at the abandoned Corsicana Dairy Queen may have not been one of my best ideas, but on the bright side I did get an extra vestigial tail, though I'm not that fond of the vestigial horns I'm beginning to grow, though they might come in handy as a defensive measure if I were to once again be involved in a tragic(but common) goat-goring incident at my hometown's semi-annual 'Running of the Goats'.
Returning is bittersweet...on the one hand, it is good to be back in my upstairs garage apartment and resuming my canklectomy 'ministry' but on the other hand, leaving such a smorgasbord of putrid delectables does little toward the warming of my heart cockles(and us Loneys are known for our cold heart cockles).
'O' rancid pork bellies, we were but two bacteria laden ships passing in the night...weep not salmonella infested chicken drummies, for we shall meet again...and discolored brown sirloin, I hardly knew thee'
All this talk has gotten me in the mood for a good ol' Loney specialty... a gizzard casserole served of course with a 'beef tongue' finger appetizer!! And for good nostalgic CDC measure, I'll even let them sit out on the counter for a few hours before cooking...anybody game for supper?
William T. Loney, MD
Thanks nbbcof...
Dr. Loney!
Great to have you back in town! I guess that means you can come to the next bowling party after all. I can't speak for others, but I won't be able to join you for supper tonight. However, if you'll e-mail me the recipe for that "beef tongue stuffed gizzard casserole," I promise someone will make a big batch especially for you! Yummm!!!
New BBC Open Forum said...
Lynn wrote:
"Perfect timing too. I need to get me a new computer because my main computer is busted!!!"
Just don't buy one that costs more than $1500 or you'll have to pay the sales tax. I notice they've added "art supplies" to the list this year.
10:15 AM, August 03, 2007
Don't worry. I just paid $700 for it. With 400 GB Hard Drive, 3 GB RAM, DVD Burner, Expansion Drive, 15-1 Media drive, loaded. Much better than my old system for half the cost!!!!
Good going Lynn! Congratulations! I'm glad you have a new toy!
Dr. Loney: So glad you have been released and are free to pursue your life's work. We are hopeful you will be able to join us on our Spam cook-out. Please be sure, however, you wear your shirt as we do not want to entice Big Foot to our lovely area.
concernedSBCer said...
Good going Lynn! Congratulations! I'm glad you have a new toy!
Dr. Loney: So glad you have been released and are free to pursue your life's work. We are hopeful you will be able to join us on our Spam cook-out. Please be sure, however, you wear your shirt as we do not want to entice Big Foot to our lovely area.
3:22 PM, August 03, 2007
Speaking of Spam...did you know in China, Spam is served at restaurants over there simular to The Melting Pot here? I learned that from my boss who's over there on a 6 month assignment.
Lynn: Be sure to keep that quiet. Can you see Dr. Loney shipping himself Fed Ex to CHINA????
Rowdy Lynn said...
Speaking of Spam...did you know in China, Spam is served at restaurants over there simular to The Melting Pot here?
Spam fondue ... mmmmmmmm mmmm!
Rowdy Lynn said...
Speaking of Spam...did you know in China, Spam is served at restaurants over there simular to The Melting Pot here?
Junk said:
Spam fondue ... mmmmmmmm mmmm!
5:38 PM, August 03, 2007
oc says:
Junk,
Anything fondue......
mmmmmmmmmm...mmmmmmm......mmmm.....
Cheese rocks!
(Even better than potted meats. Sorry Doc.)
Just sayin'.
oc.
"Speaking of Spam...did you know in China, Spam is served at restaurants over there simular to The Melting Pot here? I learned that from my boss who's over there on a 6 month assignment. "
Uh, you may want to let your boss know that is not spam. That is Fido.
Lin said, "Uh, you may want to let your boss know that is not spam. That is Fido."
Uh oh! Or 'Spot'...as in "Run Spot, run!"
What say ye now?
I still cannot eat potted meat, after the way my older brother joked about it when we were growing up.
Spam is actually quite good, sliced thin and fried like bacon fer breakfast.
Good eat'n!
For me....Spam gives me flashbacks to Monty Python!
yuk..pottie meat...grew up on that gross stuff...wouldn't touch it now!!
"I still cannot eat potted meat, after the way my older brother joked about it when we were growing up."
When I was 10, my Dad took me with him to the stock yards and a meat packing plant that was one of his clients. He showed me why he would not allow hot dogs, spam, potted meat or vienna sausages into our home.
That is why I am happy to intercede for Dr. Lonely on threats against his life but I cannot share his culinary pursuits.
I must say the discussion here has pretty much dipped to an all-time low tonight!
Does God Smile Upon Pastors
Interesting perspective on Pastors and church.
LOL.......all-time low? Maybe.....but we are showing great compassion for lovers of potted meat products. I thought that's what we were admonished to do. Right?
Potted Conversation?
New BBC Open Forum said...
I must say the discussion here has pretty much dipped to an all-time low tonight!
9:50 PM, August 03, 2007
Yes....Low but never the less, meaty.
From Mid-Town Memphis.... is Potted conversation Like Spam seasoned with Meri-you-know-what?
"Just askin’"
Good night all. In spite of the insistent seriousness of life and death, I am so thankful for some silliness and laughter.
Esoterica!
Spamiliscious.
Spam, the edible (or nearly so for some) kind is another one of those "things" that divide people into two groups. There are the "spamers" and the "non-Spamers". AND! Both are right.
I was a food inspector for the US Army and spent time in several slaughter houses and saw for myself how Hotdogs were made. You don't want to know. Like spam.... Even if it is meat, which has been offered to idols, do not offend your host by refusing to eat. See NASS.... back on the "high" ground.... Ha!
Anyway, try this link if you want to cook up the best of Spam recipes from WXRR-FM Hattiesburg, MS for 2003.
(Link should work this time)
Now were cooking. NASS.... See what happens when you let the likes of WTLMD infect this blog with his "tripe".
How about a Spam-a-thon at our next bowling party? Calling Dr. Biiiiill.
On a more serious note on this subject, I had an uncle who served in World War II tell me about SPAM once upon a time. Due to this conversation tonight, I thought I'd do a google search to see if I could verify what my uncle told me. Sure enough, I found it and here it is:
"During World War II, SPAM sales boomed. Not only was SPAM great for the military, as it required no refrigeration, it wasn't rationed as beef was, so it became a prime staple in American meals. SPAM supported the war effort more directly, too. Nikita Kruschev credits SPAM with the survival of the Russian Army during WWII."
So amidst all the stories abounding on the blog about this product, seems we as Americans owe SPAM a big salute for contributing to the war efforts of WWII. How about that!
g'nite...
Correct link from Lin's 9:55 p.m. comment is here.
imaresistor said...
On a more serious note on this subject, I had an uncle who served in World War II tell me about SPAM once upon a time. Due to this conversation tonight, I thought I'd do a google search to see if I could verify what my uncle told me. Sure enough, I found it and here it is:
"During World War II, SPAM sales boomed. Not only was SPAM great for the military, as it required no refrigeration, it wasn't rationed as beef was, so it became a prime staple in American meals. SPAM supported the war effort more directly, too. Nikita Kruschev credits SPAM with the survival of the Russian Army during WWII."
So amidst all the stories abounding on the blog about this product, seems we as Americans owe SPAM a big salute for contributing to the war efforts of WWII. How about that!
g'nite...
12:19 AM, August 04, 2007
WOW! Thanks for the information. I did not know this.
We salute you, SPAM.
I like SPAM. It has gotten me through many a hard times. SPAM has helped me raise my kids, and I fooled them into thinking it was actually meat. They thought it was a big treat when I chopped it up and mixed it with their macaroni and cheese. SPAM has been there for me during divorce, when I was hungry, and couldn't afford real protein. I like SPAM, (although I can do without the gelatinous stuff that adheres to the sacred delicacy.) SPAM is my friend.
So SPAM, we salute you!
(and Dr. Loney, don't eat the green SPAM, it will probably grow you another tail. How many tails do you have now?).
New bbc friends: Off topic a bit...but thought I'd mention that my story has something else in common with yours. The minister who knew about the abuse when I was a kid is still at the same church. He knew specifically that the other minister had "sexual contact with Brown as a minor" - and yet he kept quiet. (Others in the church also knew - the senior pastor who is now dead and the perpetrator's wife.) And even in the here and now, when it comes to light all over again, the current congregation apparently isn't upset about the fact that its music minister kept information about clergy child molestation a secret for so long. He's STILL their music minister. You can read more about him here. Of course, it's just one more story among many - this is happening all across the country.
Someone on this board described people who cover their ears and sing "lalalalalalalalala." I thought that was a perfect description of so many of the Southern Baptist leaders I've encountered, not only in some churches, but in state conventions and in Nashville. It's the lala land of no accountability.
And as for SPAM - hey - where I live we have an annual Spam-o-rama. It's a much-attended event, with SPAM poetry contests, SPAM-tossing contests, SPAM-eating contests, etc. etc. SPAM is something we take VERY seriously!
Christa,
If you happen to look out your window and see an extremely hairy, shirtless jogger with his back hair braided... please don't shoot him! That will be our own Dr. Bill Loney in search of Spam. Just put him in a large box with a few cans of Spam or similar canned meat products, cushion him well with those biodegradable (edible) foam peanuts, and ship him via FedEx back to Memphis!
Note: If he offers you a free cankle reduction procedure... I'd graciously decline if I were you! Just sayin'.
FYI - There is a 'MANDATAORY' soccer coach's meeting at BBC tomorrow nite 5pm in Grace Bldg and while the subject matter was not disclosed to the coaches as to the why we need to have a 2nd meeting, the possbility exists the subject matter will be to discuss coach's signing (or in my case not signing) a 'Coach's Covenant'. One coach who signed and then recanted his signature has been asked to not coach this season. Others who did not sign the covenant may be asked to resign as well. Should be an 'interesting' meeting. Hopefully, we can send results to you guys after the meeting.
Ahhh, memories of meals from my childhood.
SPAM - Something Posing As Meat
SPAM sliced thick, fried in bacon grease in a cast iron skillet and served as a sandwich with mustard. I haven't had one in decades but I remember that it was quite tasty, actually.
Did you know that SPAM is on the menu at McDonald's and Burger King in Hawaii? Yep, it is.
And then there was the much dreaded dinner of brains and scrambled eggs.
A delicacy, my mother insisted. A pig's brain, said I.
No offense to the Doc but some memories of the foods of childhood are best left undisturbed. This is one of them.
;-)
Feelingblue: That sounds a little scary to me. Nazi-ism, perhaps?
Tomorrow Mornings Sermon Title:
"What to do when you are persecuted"
Tomorrow Night's Sermon:
"How to Die For Jesus".
Regarding the mandatory soccer coach’s meeting…
Keep in mind that this will be the 3rd meeting with the coaches.
1 Each coach had to go through an interview process prior to being approved by the Recreation staff to coach.
2) The coaches had the normal coaches meeting on Wednesday, July 25.
3) Now, there is the mandatory meeting tomorrow (Sunday) at 5pm in the Grace building. My understanding is that the reason for the meeting is because of “some communication issues.”
We need to pray that these men and women will stand firm to their convictions and stand for Truth.
feelingblue said...
FYI - There is a 'MANDATAORY' soccer coach's meeting at BBC tomorrow nite 5pm in Grace Bldg and while the subject matter was not disclosed to the coaches as to the why we need to have a 2nd meeting, the possbility exists the subject matter will be to discuss coach's signing (or in my case not signing) a 'Coach's Covenant'.
What is the content of this "covenant"?
Tomorrow morning's sermon notes.
I pray this isn't a repeat of the sheep beating, but I fear that's just what it's going to be.
Does anyone know if the meeting tomorrow is just for soccer coaches or for all coaches?
ENCOURAGEMENT FOR BELLEVUE COACHES
Our sufficiency is of GOD
"... our sufficiency is of GOD, Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter killeth, but the SPIRIT giveth life."
--II Cor. 3:4,6
Note from Scofield: "'The letter' is a Paulinism for the law, as 'spirit' in these passages is his word for the relationships and powers of new life in Christ Jesus."
*GOD does not require oaths or loyalty pledges to church leadership; in fact, oaths forbidden by Jesus, himself. This is MAN.
*GOD does not require our tithes in the New Testament Church. Tithes were paid to the Jewish temple. We are instructed to give as we purpose in our hearts, not grudgingly or of necessity. Requirements are of MAN.
*GOD does not require churches to become "mega-churches" and offer social programs, sports, or instruction in the arts to her membership. This is MAN.
*GOD does not require unity with what is contrary to His Word. We are told to come out from among them and be separate. Unity is MAN.
*GOD does not require submissiion and obedience to church leadership. GOD requires submission to Himself and obedience to His Word. We are instructed to test the spirits, to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. Obedience to church leadership is MAN.
"And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that ye always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work." II Cor. 9:8
Our sufficiency is not in the ideas of man. Our sufficiency is of GOD. II Cor. 3:4
A challenge for the coaches -- show the BBC deacons how it is done.
rowdy lynn said, "Tomorrow Mornings Sermon Title:"What to do when you are persecuted" "
Comment: My, my...sounds like it would almost be worth a trip over to Memphis to see this one! I noticed my former pastor now has introduced 'line dancing' into his church. Just keeps getting better and better doesn't it. I need a barf bag!
Persecuted? They are probably talking to you, resisters!
ima,
You can watch it live at 9:30 a.m. and again at 11:00 a.m. here. The evening service begins at 6:00 p.m. and is also streamed live.
Just click where it says "Click here to Watch Now." You'll have to register if you haven't before (with 316Networks, not BBC), and it'll detect your internet bandwidth and automatically start.
So we are being persecuted for performing signs and wonders now.......
2 Thessalonians 2 (King James Version)
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
Don't confuse persecution with affliction, refiner's fire or fullers soap.
God disciplines his children for disobedience to His WORD. What you are witnessing is His rod of correction applied liberally to all involved with this mess. Calling it "persecution" for serving Christ could not be further from the truth.
In order to call it persecution, one must first serve Christ. Serving Christ is obedience to the Word. Obedience to the Word results in love, justice, righteousness and transformation into His image. If this were happening at BBC, the masses would be all the way out the door....There would be no need to exert authority through pledges or covenants, the authority of Christ would permeat everything.
All that is being served at BBC these days is man. And his name is SG.
My guess is this is all nicely orchestrated so that when these coaches are confused they will be led to think WE are the persecuters when we echo the things in church mouse's posts.
Great post...again ...church mouse.
I feel so sad that people don't have enough "Holy Spirit radar"...for lack of another word.....
AND will they use the word covenant to make sure the lingo is from the New Testament?????
Coaches....be courageous and encouraged!!!
We already have a covenant with the Lord!!!
And please remember that BIG Picture....you are setting the example for the younger ones....please do not cause them to stumble .
I realized I had to repent to the Lord the other day because I was allowing my emotions and thoughts for another person (my son) to affect my heart and mind which was taking my eyes off the only ONE they should be on.
When we do that we are not a witness to the very ones we should be....just sharing...and hope it may be an encouragement to be strong in the Lord!!!
I will be praying for God to give you all that you need to follow Him in this situation.
EZ,
Thank you!! AMEN!!
What a victorious time this can be!!!
Many will have the opportunity to decide who they will serve....God's Word or man's.
I am burdened by what the children will learn from this...ALL this.
Churchmouse said...
A challenge for the coaches -- show the BBC deacons how it is done.
Amen to churchmouse......
Did hear this week that one of the deacon chairmen had resigned...Did anyone else hear this or is it just a rumor...
lwood,
Not a rumor. It was Terry Brimhall.
Also, Jim Waggener, chairman of the Committee on Committees has reportedly resigned.
Welcome back! We've missed you!
In the Bulletin for tomorrow theres a blurb in there about Jon Tyner is leaving Bellevue to go be an Associate Pastor of Worship at a church in Knoxville.
Junkster said:
What is the content of this "covenant"?
oc says:
I would like to know that too. But I would also say, that to sign a paper means nothing in comparison to the covenant that is written on the heart. If the paper and heart doesn't match, then don't sign.
Just sayin'.
oc.
So after the preschool workers refuse to sign the covenant oath, then the coaches refuse to sign, what about the staff, are they next or have they already pledged their oath and blood to Steve Gaines? I wonder just how many will still not "get it"? I wonder what they will do when he runs the church into the ground and then takes off all the while saying he "just couldn't take the persecution" (tomorrow's message). I wonder when they realize that all the money is gone, will they wonder what happened?
If Steve Gaines left tomorrow, it would take a decade to recover from the damage he has wrought.
And why must you sign anyway?
Sign nothing.
Just sayin'.
oc.
Guess it's just me and you, King NASS. Everyone else has a life. It's you and me, defending your basement kingdom in the far off mystical land of Minnesota. Since it looks like an easy job tonight, I am at your service, your highness. Dr. Loney gave me the night off. :)
oc.
(Not even Just sayin'.) :)
I should have gone with the good Doctor to the International SPAM Convention in Chihuahua, Mexico.
And I have a sneaking suspicion that SPAM and 'Chihuahua' have a close relationship.
Just sayin'.
oc.
OC,
I'm here! :)
I'm just busy doing accounting homework. Maybe the budget people at Bellevue need to take some accounting classes. Maybe they would then know that its not a good idea to BUDGET overspending!
Hey Rowdy Lynn.
Glad to hear from you. I was getting worried. I was hoping that the Rapture hadn't happened.
We aren't left behind, are we?
Just hopin'. :)
oc.
You should be seeing another music department biggie resigning soon. The kids will miss him greatly.
oc said...
Junkster said:
What is the content of this "covenant"?
oc says:
I would like to know that too. But I would also say, that to sign a paper means nothing in comparison to the covenant that is written on the heart. If the paper and heart doesn't match, then don't sign.
Just sayin'.
oc.
Reply: In the spirit of transparency, why not tell us what is in this covenant? I mean, some of you coaches...someone who has seen the covenant, tell us about it.
Other than your pledge of allegiance to Steve Gaines, and your social security number, what else do they want? Was there a promise to BBC to remain chaste?
Will the person who just submitted a comment with the screen name "memphis," please change your screen name to something else and resubmit your comment? There's already someone who posts using that name, and you're not he!
Thanks,
NBBCOF
Part of the covenant is a promise to tithe and support the pastor. I guess the question now is who is next? Choir, teachers, orchestra...all leadership?
So, if the coaches sign the loyalty covenant, and the teachers and deacons sign the loyalty covenant, does that mean that they started with the staff? Has the staff signed this covenant pledging their hearts and minds in an oath to follow a man instead of Scripture?
When he takes all that Bellevue has, then decides to go on to more lucrative fields, will the remaining members wonder what happened? Will they wonder where all the money went? Who will they blame?
If Steve Gaines left tomorrow, it would take a decade to restore Bellevue.
re: sermon notes: When you are persecuted
I find it laughable that SG thinks he is being persecuted. He should know by now that most of us have moved on, as evidenced by the empty seats in worship.
I think that he keeps that theme going because it deflects from the empty seats, the 'covenant' and everything else going on that it not Biblical.
It's deflection, and an effort to unite those left, as in , 'them against us'.
Hey STEVE!!! It ain't workin!! Go ahead on and do whatever it is you want to do, I'm gone, as are thousands of others...all you are left with is your empty soul.
sotl said..
"Hey STEVE!!! It ain't workin!! Go ahead on and do whatever it is you want to do, I'm gone, as are thousands of others...all you are left with is your empty soul."
You, dear lady, may be a prophetess....and an empty soul is a scary thought to me. What is odd, is that he doesn't seem to mind.
OC...Lynn,
of course,...I'm here too.
No life a possibility...too much to do to do anything fun.
Churchmouse,
I was told but this isn't confirmed that along with a back ground check(OK..not bad)they have to allow a credit check! Seems like such an invasion of privacy!
is it a combination of corporate America and dictatorship???
The preschool ministry is requiring the upcoming volunteers to undergo a criminal background check - which I can agree is a needful thing, but they are also requiring a credit check plus the "covenant" which includes an oath to tithe and an oath of loyalty and support for the senior pastor. I do not remember the remaining items on the covenant, after the credit check, I freaked...
gmommy,
A now former coach told me there was no credit or background check required for them. Of course, that could change tomorrow!
Ya know....
These people who sign these covenants might as well be signing a contract with the devil because essentially, thats what they are doing. They are basically saying that they have no problems with sin in the pulpit.
I was just thinking.....one of my "friends" from Bellevue was getting married this weekend and no one's even bothered to invite me. I guess the fact I won't put up with sin in the pulpit made me their enemy. Their loss I guess.
So why do volunteers need a credit check???
Nass....was that maybe just the coaches that DIDN'T have to have a CC??
I have a great idea...why doesn't SG set the example by having the FIRST credit check???
Now that would be interesting!!!
Lynn,
Just think of the money you saved on a wedding gift.
lynn,
We also have lost friends, and some have even lost family members. It is almost like a cult has taken over the church. Like David Koresh, striving to separate loved ones so he can do as he pleased. I hope we don't end up with another Waco! (symbolism folks!)
NASS,
That is true. Thats money that could be spent for a Ebonite NVS Bowling Ball :)
Seriously though, I would have declined anyways as I'm not a suit & tie guy. But it is a bit of an insult that I didn't at least get an invite lol.
gmommy wrote:
"Nass....was that maybe just the coaches that DIDN'T have to have a CC??"
I don't know if it was just the coaches. The ex-coach I spoke to said they didn't ask him to authorize a credit check.
"I have a great idea...why doesn't SG set the example by having the FIRST credit check???
Now that would be interesting!!!"
Wouldn't it now? Indeed.
Lynn wrote:
"Thats money that could be spent for a Ebonite NVS Bowling Ball :)"
Which you can bring to our next bowling party!
New BBC Open Forum said...
Lynn wrote:
"Thats money that could be spent for a Ebonite NVS Bowling Ball :)"
Which you can bring to our next bowling party!
10:40 PM, August 04, 2007
I'll actually do better than that. I'll bring one that is scented. (One bowling ball company, as a marketing gimmick, gives each bowling ball a fragrance such as citrus, cinnamon, berry, etc...).
Bring one that smells like Spam and Dr. Loney won't be able to stay away!
aslan wrote:
"You should be seeing another music department biggie resigning soon. The kids will miss him greatly."
With the initials K.R., no doubt. BBC's loss will be GBC's gain!
New BBC Open Forum said...
aslan wrote:
"You should be seeing another music department biggie resigning soon. The kids will miss him greatly."
With the initials K.R., no doubt. BBC's loss will be GBC's gain!
10:56 PM, August 04, 2007
Jon Tyner is also leaving.
Nass or Ima,
What would be the best or most concise link to share with a friend
(who does not want to think there is a connection with Willow creek,SBC,lifeway,BBC...CIA,FBI....oops)
explaining what "willow Creek" means and who gets on the list?????
I told her that Faith wasn't on the list...she asked what that meant.
But earlier got very upset when I made a connection with problems at BBC and other churches and the SBC.......and even "purpose driven Warren stuff".
MOM4 said...
sotl said..
"Hey STEVE!!! It ain't workin!! Go ahead on and do whatever it is you want to do, I'm gone, as are thousands of others...all you are left with is your empty soul."
You, dear lady, may be a prophetess....and an empty soul is a scary thought to me. What is odd, is that he doesn't seem to mind.
10:05 PM, August 04, 2007
My comment:
As Christians we are to love others as we love our selves.... Are we witnessing the love Dr. Gaines has for him self expressed toward you and me?
I am to have the same high regard for you as I have for my self. If in my soul I have a low regard for my self I will also express that to you by having a low regard for you. When a person receives the truth of the word of God and is born of the will of God that love of God will be shed abroad in that person's heart. The supernatural love of God changes everything for the one who is in Christ.... even the love for one's self changes. The love for one's self is transformed from a self centered and self serving love to a Christ centered love, which reveres the one whom God has saved. This reverence is the love for ourselves which we would then have for others. A common expression of this fact is when you or I regard another as more important than ourselves. Such an expression of a Christian’s priorities is sometimes remembered by the anachronism, JOY. Jesus first, Others second and Yourself last. And the idea is that when Christ is preeminent then this JOY of the Lord will be our strength.
I have learned that to love another or to even love anyone at all is such an incredible reflection of God's love towards each of us. Our pastor may be loving us with all he’s got.
And if this is true…. This is indeed overwhelmingly sad.
The love we would expect from a man called of God to preach and teach the word of God at BBC would be that supernatural love for himself which the Holy Spirit would use to express his love to you and me in Spirit and in Truth. Integrity is a measure of a man to determine that he is the same inside as he is on the outside. What we are experiencing from Dr. Gaines may just be the same outside as inside. SOTL …… “Empty soul”? This is so sad I could scream!
I can remember the most devastating yet the most loving thing a bible study teacher said to me many years ago. God's love is tough because it is contradictory to what our imperfect flesh seeks to appease our appetites. When and only when we obey the word of God will we love others as we love our selves as we are loved by God.
Now folks, I’m not perfect in my thoughts and thinking so please try and read what I meant to say. Thanks!
For the Love of Jesus,
Padroc
Tomorrow you must decide...is it persecution...or affliction?
Ez 13:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;
13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
13:4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
13:6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made [others] to hope that they would confirm the word.
13:7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith [it]; albeit I have not spoken?
13:8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I [am] against you, saith the Lord GOD.
13:9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I [am] the Lord GOD.
13:10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and [there was] no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered [morter]:
13:11 Say unto them which daub [it] with untempered [morter], that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend [it].
13:12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where [is] the daubing wherewith ye have daubed [it]?
13:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend [it] with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in [my] fury to consume [it].
13:14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered [morter], and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
13:15 Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered [morter], and will say unto you, The wall [is] no [more], neither they that daubed it;
13:16 [To wit], the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and [there is] no peace, saith the Lord GOD.
13:17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
13:18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the [women] that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive [that come] unto you?
13:19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear [your] lies?
13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make [them] fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, [even] the souls that ye hunt to make [them] fly.
13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
And lest anyone say...hey thats OT junk, already happened....
Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Gmommy
You didn't ask me for the links, but I will share some experience with you.
There is so much information to share. One of my friends told me, "Stop! Let me deal with this and then give me some more. (information)" Another friend would become angry and have bouts of denial, but would always come back for more information.
There is a grief process that people have to go through. There is pain and crying. I even felt guilty for bringing them to that state of mind.
I downloaded information and made a few printed booklets to give out. It cost me some time and money, but this has been a great help. They helped me keep my thoughts on track and helped the recipients by giving them something to refer to. I need to revise my booklets.
The booklets were aimed at exposing PD at Bellevue and are a bit out of date. There is so much more to know, now.
Keep up the good work. Have patience with your friend.
Thank you God, for allowing us to see the Truth.
Well I changed the screen name as I was requested to do last night.
Now back to the subject at hand. There are two or three interesting things about what happened at FBCE. First and foremost, some of the lay leadership decided it was time to hold the pastor and staff accountable. This is exactly what is needed at BBC.
Secondly, even after the audit was made available to the church members, there were some that still supported the pastor.
Thirdly, the whole sorid mess would not have received much attention except for the blogger that had an axe to grind with PP at SWBTS.
Then to top it off, GBC invites this same discredited preacher to fill the pulpit during the month of July.
It seems that integrity and discernment has completely vanished.
amazed,
Thanks. :-)
Well its off to church soon but it will not be BBC or GBC.
After many years at a mega church, a small friendly church now seems to fit the bill very well.
Will check back in this afternoon.
Amazed: I hope you'll try my small, friendly church sometime!
"Thirdly, the whole sorid mess would not have received much attention except for the blogger that had an axe to grind with PP at SWBTS."
I would not call it an ax to grind. I would call it exposing unethical behavior.
Since these so called 'men of God' refuse to stop preaching or starting new ministries, like CT, we have a right to know about their behavior so we can make informed decisions about sitting under their teaching.
Too bad, they themselves, are not honest enough to make it public by a confession and stepping down as an elder as 1 Timothy requires. That goes for PP, too.
Thanks concernedsbcer, but there is one more stipulation- - the small friendly church must be close by in Collierville.
We attended Covenant Baptist this morning and heard a wonderful sermon from II Timothy. The preacher reminded us that we have to be careful around teachers, (preachers)that twist the word.
Churchmouse,
So sorry I didn't ask you about the Willow creek "list"....I do know how wise you are but hadn't remembered that you had been specific in that area...of the Willow Creek.
I haven't even done my taxes yet...for 06...first time I have ever filed an extension.....
I am so far behind on life and work that MAYBE I will just wait until Jan. 08 to start fresh:)
So don't think I will attempt a booklet but so glad you did that...great idea!!!!
I would love your advise....she does NOT want to think the SBC has changed at all or that they could be part of the big picture problem.
So what do you think would be a good link to send to let her get a glimpse of the big picture???
amazed...said, "amazed said...
Well its off to church soon but it will not be BBC or GBC.
After many years at a mega church, a small friendly church now seems to fit the bill very well.
Will check back in this afternoon."
Hello amazed...I hope you will find what you are looking for. But if I might just interject a little something here: the smaller churches can be just as PD, etc. as the mega churches. If concernbedbbcer has one she recommends which she has attended for some time...and she also knows all the signs...I'd take her up on her offer. Seriously...
My group got caught up in a smaller church just to find more of the same. May God guide you in your search.
concernedsbcer wrote:
"Amazed: I hope you'll try my small, friendly church sometime!"
amazed wrote:
"We attended Covenant Baptist this morning and heard a wonderful sermon from II Timothy."
Then you and "concernedsbcer" can compare notes because you found just the church she recommended! :-)
FBCJax has a new blog up now. The link is also on the front page of this blog.
gmommy said, "gmommy said...
Nass or Ima,
What would be the best or most concise link to share with a friend
(who does not want to think there is a connection with Willow creek,SBC,lifeway,BBC...CIA,FBI....oops)
explaining what "willow Creek" means and who gets on the list?????
I told her that Faith wasn't on the list...she asked what that meant.
But earlier got very upset when I made a connection with problems at BBC and other churches and the SBC.......and even "purpose driven Warren stuff"."
Reply: You know gmommy, anybody out there today who refuses to acknowledge that a problem exists in the churches, whether it be BBC or any other, truly does have scales on their eyes. The Bible tells us this is going to happen. For those people who do have scales, and who simply refuse to see the problem...I don't know that there IS ANYTHING any of us can do. Nobody is hurt more by these words than I am. But I am with a group of people who were cast out of a church simply because we would not accept Rick Warren's theology and fought it...these people who did this were life long friends and relatives to us and this has hurt us to the core...very badly. And I am sad to say, nothing has changed there. So...you may just have to learn to accept that people are going to keep their heads in the sand...the scales may well be there permanently. These people will follow the pastor WHEREVER he takes them...doesn't matter. These people are worshipping man rather than God. THAT is the problem. They are NOT grounded in the Word and do NOT know Truth.
There are many sites that have been posted on this blog, many of them by yours truly. You can go back to 2006 and check out those posts listed in many of the earlier threads. Or saving bellevue has many of them posted as well. It is like churchmouse said, however, these date back nearly a year ago. I am not sure, however, a whole lot has changed. Things are progressing...no doubt about that! You are finding more emergent, more eastern mysticism that you were. More comtemplative prayer. Things are revolving back to the pre-reformation Roman Catholic era. However the links listed are updated now...so that should not be a problem I don't think.
To be more specific however, there is one website I would recommend that your friend look over and she should find some anwers there. It is lighthousetrailsresearch.com and is owned by Deborah Dombrowski and husband. I have known her for about three years now. She always backs up what she writes. I have found the information she provides to be factual. There are many others, but I’d go here first.
I want you to go here first because there is
information on Willow Creek which has twenty-five different links to information on Deborah’s website. She is always eager to provide information by email as well.
I hope this information will help your friend and others as well.
Ima
Amazed, NBBCOF, Concernedsbcer...
God is moving! This is NO coincidence...
Wow, I didn't know Steve Gaines preached at FBCJax today! Okay, he didn't really, but if you didn't know... that's really scary. Seems the BBC sheep aren't the only SBC sheep being beat these days.
Thank you Ima,
I am a terrible organizer of info...including links..I was going to go back thru our blog but this is great. When I googled the WC...sure could be decieving to many just to read their website.
Nass,
looked at the post on the FBJ blog...freaky!!!!
Wonder if it is part of the curriculum or just that they all need the tithes so badly after they run people away from the church.????
I hope JW won't be hurt again there!!
He probably thinks he can help.
So cool about amazed!!!
I am still enjoying my quiet church.
I wonder if JW made a wise decision to accept a call to FBCJ?
It looks like the pot is still boiling and he might get burned twice.
The following is only a snippet of an article I just found on Christian Research Service. I may be about to drop a 'bomb', but in good conscious must post this to all of you. Having run across the name of GBC, I thought this should be brought to the attention of those of you involved in this practice and to alert those members and attendees who would not want this if they knew. This is just an example of how false teaching invades our churches. I have included the link to this article following the short snippet of the article. Not meant to offend anyone…just FYI.
“Branda Polk's promotion of Yoga, coupled with LifeWay's compromise, has the potential to mislead and deceive untold numbers of immature Christians worldwide. When the innocent and the unwary are encouraged to participate in pagan practices, the chances of their being seduced into paganism increases with each passing moment.
A prime example of paganism's seductive power is found within the walls of Germantown Baptist Church, where Polk conducts Pilates classes, and where discernment is at an all-time low. Germantown is immersed in Yoga--from Beginner Yoga to advanced Yoga Certification, including "Mommy & Me Yoga," where innocent toddlers are introduced to that seductive power before they can walk!
Consequently, when Yoga (and other forms of the New Age Movement) gains acceptance in a Christian church, it spreads like a disease into the congregation, then to other churches. If the disease isn't stopped in its tracks, it will spread into the Christian denomination.
Accordingly, a shepherd who can't distinguish the difference between a sheep and a wolf should be put out to pasture.”
Christian Research Service article involving GBC
Partner with Jesus-Without money
I am not crazy about the title but if you read the article it will explain the title. You know, I would much rather support indigenous missionaries than give my money to pay the salary of a six figure preacher.
I like Heart Cry Missionary Society. Many of their indigenous missionaries live on less than 100 per month.
You should hear the sheep beating going on at BBC tonight. Wow.
Is he using his standard 15 proof texted verses to fit his premise?
I don't know how you can stand it. I just finished listening to FBC Muscle Shoals, Don Currin preaching on Apostasy taken from Hebrews 6. Good stuff. Deep and not self serving.
No, actually he read two entire chapters straight out of the book of Acts. It was an awesome sermon and an incredible worship service, with Jesus as the focus. Sorry you all missed it.
I admit it wasn't his usual eisegetic style, but I still thought it was one of his best (worst?) sheepbeating efforts yet. I've noticed he generally saves these for Sunday nights.
His sermon title was "How to Die for Jesus." So one would assume that the "persecution" theme that was evident in his fill-in-the-blank outline would have been about persecution from the world, right? Wrong!
He covered the "persecutors" in the first section and emphasized how they can't be filled with the Holy Spirit. I didn't realize that "the world," by definition, was ever "filled with the Holy Spirit," so I guess we know who the persecutors he's talking about are!
"Persecutors operate in secrecy. You know, the thing about the internet is you can say anything you want and not sign your name. That's the coward's way. Heh heh.... {silence} I said, 'That's the coward's way!' Amen?! Heh heh heh." {applause}
Note: Brother Steve, I assure you if I ever wrote you a letter that I would sign my name. But this is the internet, and there are nuts out there. I know people who've met a couple of them already (those who need to know already know their names and have good descriptions of them). Shoot, I don't even have a gate. You and the goon squad could just walk right up to my door, but somehow I don't think it would be a social visit.
And there were these gems...
"Persecutors stir up trouble. You're either a peacemaker or you're a troublemaker."
"I would not want to stand before the Lord as a troublemaker in the church."
He used the entire 7th chapter of Acts which, as I said, was a real departure from his usual eisegetic style, but he lost me halfway through with all the YELLING. Why does he think he has to YELL TO GET HIS POINT ACROSS?!
Then there was this comment near the end of reading that 50-verse passage...
"Sounds like a pretty seeker sensitive message to me!"
Hmmm... wonder where he got that!
Then he burst into song.
No, actually he read two entire chapters straight out of the book of Acts. It was an awesome sermon and an incredible worship service, with Jesus as the focus. Sorry you all missed it.
8:57 PM, August 05, 2007
Have you signed a covenant yet?
Tonight's service was interesting as to the preaching on persecution and the internet (again), but there was also silence as to the mention of the condition of, or request for prayer for the staff member who allegedly fell down a flight of Bellevue stairs. And nothing but a quick and awkward good bye to Jon without any word from Jon himself.
"New BBC Open Forum", though I heard and agree with most of your analysis of the message , I think you do have an error, as I believe he stated that it "doesn't" sound like a very seeker friendly message to me.
gopher,
Thanks for the correction. I thought he said, "That sounds like a seeker sensitive message," but I'll certainly admit when I'm wrong.
Whatever he said, what do you think he meant? That he was pro- or anti-seeker-sensitive?
I did think that whole thing with Jon Tyner looked rather awkward. Wonder if he had to give back the check (if there was one) in the envelope?
I haven't heard about the staff member falling down the stairs. Do you know who it was and if s/he's okay?
Did anyone attend the "mandatory" coaches' meeting this afternoon?
Amazed: I am so excited you joined us for woship today! I'm sure we saw one another! Please email me and let's get together!
Who fell????? If that is real...surely thy mentiond the person's name.
Why nothing about the coach meeting???
Did everyone swear to secrecy???
So, let me get this straight:
If, I, as a FORMER BBC sheep, objected to PW molesting children and staying on staff, I am a troublemaker and NOT filled with the Holy Spirit?
Ok, I got that.
SOTL...
be calm...
but we also should have church discipline...according to MB.
makes sense....(not).
Even tho Cakes and Padroc are nominated for the nobel peace prize....(sounds good to me)
we on the blog
(this one not the other)should be disciplined in front of the church...not PW,SG,JF or W.
okie dokie.
I guess if it wasn't reported from the elite that I wouldn't mention names due to privacy issues as I don't have a signed release form in my hand. (It was a female staff member in the east wing)
Coaches meeting was for "Volunteer authorization/consent & release" forms to be filled out. Many are not going along with this.
I have a copy of the 2 forms and will have to see where it can be posted
maybe just maybe
God once used a donkey to deliver a message. But would you let a donkey be your pastor?
NBBCOF
What song did he burst into? "Highway to Hell"?
You've got mail on the way.
gopher wrote:
"I have a copy of the 2 forms and will have to see where it can be posted"
I have just the place! And an e-mail address in my profile.
Here's an excerpt from the message.
this
Seems folks "over there" are still lamenting the nerve of some people to be angry over sin and false teaching in the pulpit.
Oh, if only we hateful souls would leave. Now they are discussing that they might have to leave BBC to get away form US.
First, never mind that we're already gone (my family is), but this is really sad that the only problem they see at BBC is this blog.
And SG is STILL ranting about it?
These CEOs in pastor's clothing just hate accountability don't they? Means they have to work harder (be sneakier) to get those bucks.
gopher says:
I guess if it wasn't reported from the elite that I wouldn't mention names due to privacy issues as I don't have a signed release form in my hand. (It was a female staff member in the east wing)
sotl asks:
Was she pushed? ( OK, slapping my hand over my mouth and asking myself why i said that) !!! LOLOL
Ok,
So we have the democrats in congress trying to get a bill passed that would make it a criminal act to preach against homosexuality from the pulpit.
Wendi Thomas wrote about it in her column today.
One would think that SG would be interested in working that into his sermon today. Can't ya'll just hear DR. R. and what he would have to say about that?
But instead, he is focusing on the people who have ALREADY left BBC, and who are no threat to that church AT ALL....when the REAL persecutors are in the United STates Congress?
Is it just me?
gopher,
Nice special effects! Took me a minute to figure out you have to click on the picture where it says, "It's everyone else b.... " I completely forgot about the "clandestine meetings" and "pseudonyms" (that's "false names" for those of you in Rio Linda).
Gopher,
SG talks about " clandestine" meetings....
I wanna know why I wasn't invited to these ' clandestine' meetings!!
Or do you think he was referring to our bowling parties?
Or do you think he was referring to those trips we take when we sneak off to see NASS up in Minnesota to go ice fishing with him?
Well, either way..if any of ya'll have any more clandestine meetings, i want to be there! Don't forget to invite me!!
All the talk about "clandestine meetings", "pseudonyms", etc...it's almost funny...seems that by now they would get it that most if not all the "dissenters" have left and couldn't care less what's going on at BBC these days...maybe it's just too hard to work up some new material ;)
Good Morning all!
First of all, please remember my Dad in prayer. He's in the hospital with pneumonia (He has Stage 7 Alzheimers)
Second of all: I'm with SOTL: I wanna come to clandestine meetings! (It seems so James Bond-ish!)
I do have to wonder WHY SG seems so threatened by this blog. Is there still more information to come out? (You gotta wonder) Or is he getting pressure from behind the scenes? (I would so hope there are still those in leadership at BBC who know the Bible and are willing to stand on it's Word.)
(repost...isn't it amazing the different in meaning when using can't vs. can???)
As Amazed shared earlier, yesterday we heard a sermon on II Timothy 3:10-17. Our pastor is preaching through the Timothy's! Anyway the heading in my Bible is "Confronting Apostates."
vs 13 is "But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived."
Vs. 14-15 continues with "But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."
I think sometimes we find it easier to look towards men and not to God, because we can't "see" God. Could PW actually look God in the eyes? Would that bring repentence? Could SG preach a sermon that was self-serving if God was sitting in the front row? Oh, I know....He is there. (Don't pounce on me!)But there is a practical matter of seeing that physical person. When my kids were younger and I was talking to them about God being their Father (after their dad left)they would say to me, "But I can't SEE Him" and that was hard for our little finite minds. They have learned to rely on God like that as they have gotten older. But that's where "fear of the Lord" comes in, doesn't it?
Where is "The Fear of the Lord"?
That's important because that's the beginning of wisdom.
piglet said...
"These CEOs in pastor's clothing just hate accountability don't they?"
Makes me wonder why he lambasted those of us trying to protect our families from harassment, calling us names such as "cowards"?? I am wondering what kind of "coward" hides behind David Coombs and his merry band of thugs to avoid being called to account according to Matthew 18?
Preach it to us Concerned sbcer!!!!!
Gopher,
I want to go to the home church on the video....can you get me in?????
Go Don Ware!!!!!....did you see all the people squirming behind him!?
Why does SG always read when he is in the pulpit......?
When was the last time he preached....seemingly after studying enough to not have to read ....
and it was to go deeper into the word...not get his agenda across and tell people what to think.???
just wonderin......
Do the people listening leave their brains at the door?
Yep,piglet.....we're not in the pews.....
we used the "scope" a long time ago and got away from there.
People on the other blog have nothing to fear fro their children from us.
wonder if after "church discipline" .....
they will demand burning at the stake for people that dare speak out against deceit and corruption in the pulpit???????
I think the so called clandestine meetings ARE are bowling parties!!!!
Oh my......
is this a comedy?????
No just really sad.
concernedSBCer said...
Amazed: I hope you'll try my small, friendly church sometime!
9:36 AM, August 05, 2007
==================================
Covenant Baptist in Collierville was born out of two church splits -
a split from a split from Ridgeway
Baptist, and Parkway Village Baptist selling its bldgs. and property because the church was dissolving from internal problems and changing demographics. The two factions came together and first began renting a Malco movie theater early Sun. a.m.'s. Later they purchased the property on Houston Levee Rd.and began bldg. their lovely facilities. Their pastor during this time died with cancer.
They had a series of interims until this new pastor who is popular and much loved. Until the new pastor, the people did not have the deep teaching of the Word we were privileged to have at Bellevue. This small church may soon become a large church. They are having to go to two services on Sun.'s and are considering a bldg. campaign if the attendance continues to increase at the pace it is now. The people who were instruments in starting this church were mature in age and desired traditional servies. Now that they are drawing in younger families, it will be interesting to see if that holds. Prayerfully
it will. The people are friendly/
welcoming and the services are traditional and the Word is being taught with power. Good recipe for true spiritual success.:-)
Gopher, The second video is quite chilling. Gaines takes a very unscientific survey to see who is on his side (he calls it 'the church going forward' instead of what it should be in dealing with sin) by asking those who agree with his statement to raise their hands.
Then he says, "Only the Lord and I will see". Yikes. This guy has the humility and discernment of a Banana Republic Dictator.
This is very close to a loyalty oath not to mention the fact that Gaines gets to see who votes for him.
If anyone cannot see this is about following Gaines instead of Christ...they are blind.
"Persecutors operate in secrecy. You know, the thing about the internet is you can say anything you want and not sign your name. That's the coward's way. Heh heh.... {silence} I said, 'That's the coward's way!' Amen?! Heh heh heh." {applause}
Note: Brother Steve, I assure you if I ever wrote you a letter that I would sign my name. But this is the internet, and there are nuts out there. I know people who've met a couple of them already (those who need to know already know their names and have good descriptions of them). Shoot, I don't even have a gate. You and the goon squad could just walk right up to my door, but somehow I don't think it would be a social visit.
By the way, Dr. Gaines, my name is Karen Turk Marshall and nothing I've done with regard to Bellevue Baptist Church has EVER been done in secret. I sent you an email back in December - which had my name on it - you know, the one that asked hard questions, but you never bothered to answer. By the way, when you decide to climb my fence to intimidate me, please don't squash my little dog - she barks loud, but she relatively harmless.
karen
Persecution...
Something to think about for a minute...In most of the true cases of persection..all the way through the OT and NT as well as "modern" history....The "established" religious organization was the one doing the persecution, not the one suffering it...
Yet in 2007... according to SG, the "established" religious organization is the one being persecuted...
Then we move on to secrecy...Do you not find it odd that SG condemns secrecy on the blog...yet encourages it at BBC? Actively participates in it?
Cowards...No, just not stupid. We saw what you did to Mark Sharp and Richard Emerson.
ok, folks ( and you know who you are) you should have received your secret wrist watch decoder today, by secret currier.
These devices will alert you to the time and location of our next clandestine meeting.
If you did not receive yours, just give me a call, but you will have to use our secret password before I will be able to discuss this further with you.
Don't forget, that before entering the meeting, you will be required to give the ' secret handshake'.
Lin,
Not to mention the cameras scanning the people as they did at the monkey business meeting.
This whole thing gives me the overwhelming feeling of being weak and powerless...as Christians and as Americans.JMO
Ez,
Chilling...literally.....
where is the fear in these people.
I am fearful FOR them!
I am (was) a coach serving in the Activies/Recreastion Ministry at BBC. I feel I was called to the ministry by the Lord (not by man). I refused to sign the leadership covenant and told 2 Ministers of the Activities/Recreation ministry my reasons for not being able to sign the covenant (which I will not go into here as they are my convictions and not necessarily others). I was told today that I cannot coach any more. Please do not applaud my decision. I am not looking for that. What I want is to let others know out there that people are taking a stand and paying a price for it (I know of other coaches who refused to sign as well). A pledge that is supposed to create 'unity' is tearing down what God built - my ministry as well as others. My heart ached last night at the meeting and aches today as well. Leaders in other ministries at BBC, beware for your time is coming. Pray up so you will be prepared.
feeling blue...
May God bless you for taking a stand for Truth. My prayers are with you.
Imaresistor
aka, Nena
feeling blue,
I am so very sorry for your grief.
I know that you are hurting, but just lean on Jesus. He's hurting too.
Keep your eyes on Jesus. Those that hurt you are just men.
I will keep you in my prayers. :(
Clandestine – such an interesting word, its meaning can run the gamut from confidential to criminal.
Such a fun word to say using different phonetics and accents.
So I take it from my catch-up read that conjecture was made from the pulpit that those seeking the truth have clandestine meetings (criminal), but those in power seeking to hide the truth have clandestine meetings (confidential).
Is another component of the reasons why the truth seekers are not allowed to have any requested information from the Administrative wing at BBC?
And persecution, how dare anyone compare the persecution of Christians to truth seekers and truth deniers. We have it so easy here in the States compared to the horrendous suffering of Christians and missionaries in so many parts of the world who are truly being persecuted. If one wants to bring a sermon on persecution, bring a sermon on real persecution and how the Lord sustains in those unbelievable situations – not fluff.
Blessed be those who stay at BBC as warriors – they are the ones more likely to suffer persecution. Although at BBC, those that refuse to worship and bow down to man will more than likely just hear “you’re fired”.
I apologize if my thoughts are coming out all jumbled, but the sheep beating and spew from SG just send me.
On a different note, I noticed some earlier posts about various foods, and none of those posters got slammed like I did for my favorite, fish tacos.
JUST IN – my decode package with assorted covert instructions has arrived.
Clandestine Lily.
I understand Larry Ray "former BBC staff" is now the new minister at another local church that has maybe 20 members.
I just read where Larry Ray is going on a very long mission trip with BBC.
I'm confused, who does Larry work for and who is paying Larry?
Could it be...In the near future that BBC will be given all of the assets of Larry's new Church?
Was that the plan all along?
Deceive the new Church and the members, what Church is next on the radar.
klavierliebfrau said...
Has anyone had any news of Karen and her Dad? This is the really sad part about the scattering of the sheep. Since I know her parents I would already have had reports from my Bible Study group or choir friends. Alas, it's as if so many people I worshiped with for years never existed.
Hey sweetie pie! Thanks for asking about us. I'm back at work full time and dad is doing great. He's walking around a little without the walker and he has an auto exerciser thing that moves his leg for 2 hour sessions (6 hours a day total!). They tried to excise some of dad's bad attitude, but they missed! Y'all know this statement is tongue in cheek!
Again, thanks for asking!
feelingblue,
You asked for us not to applaud. So I won't. Instead, I will praise God that there are those who will stand up and take a beating for their godly convictions.
Thanks for the inspiration.
oc.
concernedsbcer said, in part:
Where is "The Fear of the Lord"?
That's important because that's the beginning of wisdom.
reply: Excellent post. In too many churches, and in too many hearts, God has become the 'big buddy', the 'vending machine in the sky', just there to bless us.
Awe and reverence is replaced by the 'what has He done for me lately' attitude. It's become man-centered, not God centered. Many tend to think of God as a superman, just a bigger version of ourselves. From there it is a small step to over-look the magnitude of our sin, and the majesty of His grace.
Just a thought provoked by your insightful post. Thanks.
oc.
5:37 PM, August 06, 2007
SOTL,
I recieved my decoder wristwatch today. I thought it was a Mickey Mouse watch at first glance. I was quite dismayed that on further review, I noticed that there was a picture of SG on the face of my watch. Is this a defect and will it keep me from accessing the pertinent information needed for the the....er..er..meeting?
As it stands, I believe the mission is in jeopardy. Please advise.
Agent oc. ooops! I mean, 00something. I forgot my number. Please advise for that too.
Watergate,
I have a few answers for you regarding Larry Ray.
1. The church that he is now a pastor of is Evangel Baptist Church on Perkins. Evangel is a Reformed Baptist church. This means, I'm sorry for upsetting you with this Ms Bille, that they are of a calvanist bent. Larry does not deliver an invitation with his sermons now. This from eyewitnesses.
2. David Coombs confirmed to me that Larry is supported by Bellevue and that Bellevue hopes to have an extended relationship with Evangel. He would not elaborate on what this meant. To speculate whether Bellevue had intentions to absorbe Evangel at a future date is speculation only and not supported by reason or statement.
Does anyone have any information on the property purchased by Bellevue last week?
If my above post sounds like "gloating" to anyone, please understand that I have, as in my previous post, stated only facts.
32yrs@bbc
You did a good job of tracing the history of Covenant Baptist Church. We were members of Ridgeway Baptist Church for over thirty years and saw first hand the cause of the splits. Believe it or not, the splits were all preacher related, not unlike what is happening at BBC today. Today, the members are just walking away. Back then, they decided to start a new church.
It does appear that Covenant has a bright future and their new pastor just completed his first year on the job. We know many of the members and that is where we will probably come in for a soft landing.
Concernedsbcr.. I had know idea that when you invited me to your small friendly church, you were referring to Covenant. Yes I would like to meet you also.
feelingblue..It appears that the covenant is being used to get rid of more members. Because if you don't sign, you are gone. Just remember, there are churches where you can coach based on your ability and not some loyalty oath.
32+: Your information on Covenant is mostly correct. However, since I was one of the founding families (and the first to officially join) let me correct a few things. It was born out of a split at Immanuel Baptist Church (our church was where the Union University campus is now) and that church no longer exists; it is now Life Church at Schilling Farm. Immanuel went PDL 10 years ago and about 80 families left to form Covenant with the former Education Minister, Rev. Davy Henderson, as our pastor. Two years after forming Covenant, the remainder of Parkway Village Baptist Church joined us. In June 2005, Bro. Davy passed away after a 7 month battle with Leukemia. While he was ill, Dr. Paul Brown became our permanent substitute. After Bro. Davy passed away, Dr. Brown became our interim. We did not have a series of interims. In Aug. 2006, we called Dr. Sam Brazzell from Alabama to be our pastor. We are experiencing growth now, as we have in the past.
However, I am a bit offended that you implied before Dr. Sam we were not well-grounded. You said: "Until the new pastor, the people did not have the deep teaching of the Word we were privileged to have at Bellevue." You are very mistaken. Bro. Davy was the best pastor I have ever been privileged to have. He was a true pastor.....with us every step of the way. I would challenge anyone to find a man who lives his faith as solidly and compassionately as Bro. Davy did. He taught the word and we are a well grounded group. Please understand we "caught on" about the seeker-sensitive movement 10 years ago....and left everything....to start a new church from the ground up with nothing but our blood, sweat, tears, time, and money. That is the Covenant that is there today....built on Godly men and women's desire to serve and worship God in a traditional, conservative manner.
All great pastor's don't have to pastor a mega to be great. I want a pastor who I can call on, who walks with me through hard times.............who teaches the word every Sunday from the pulpit and every Monday through Saturday in his life. Covenant Baptist has been infinitely blessed to have those kind of men leading it....all three of them.
aslansown said...
Larry does not deliver an invitation with his sermons now. This from eyewitnesses.
.....................
Why has Larry Ray changed his theology?
In the past, every Sunday Larry was standing down front of BBC receiving people during the invitation.
His theology has changed or BBC allowed him to receive people when he may have been a Hyper Calvinest.
I wish someone had the abitlity to research this!!
32+: One other correction: I was 34 years old and had 4 children under the age of 13. The founders of Covenant were not all "mature in years!" :)
Concerned,
I visited your church on Wednesday. I sat through choir practice and talked to some friends. I will be back and hope to see you there soon!
Diana H.
There are reports that the services yesterday started with no choir except for Ryan Wingo. And then before the worship service started Gaines announced Wingo's engagement to his daughter.
Can anyone confirm if this happened?
"It appears that the covenant is being used to get rid of more members. Because if you don't sign, you are gone."
You can imagine that they are not sure exactly who is with them or not.
These 'convenants' and 'loyalty pledges' are a way or rooting out dissent and developing loyal follwers. (If you signed one of these, you would be more likely to defend anything to save face)
I believe that is where all the 'clandestine' talk in his sermon comes from. Gaines is paranoid of his own congregation. Because...he, himself deals in the 'clandestine' all the time.
Yet, anyone who signs anything like this is in danger of bringing judgement upon themselves:
Matthew 5
34"But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
35or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING.
36"Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
37"But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or 'No, no'; anything beyond these is of evil.
James 5
12But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but your yes is to be yes, and your no, no, so that you may not fall under judgment.
OC:
It appears that your watch has been infiltrated by those who would want to spy on our clandestine meetings. Apparently, THAT watch was one of SG's, for HIS clandestine meetings, but has been rewired in order to access our data.
Your watch should have had MY photo on it. I thought it was an especially good shot of me, taken from just the right angle, but I digress.
Please take the watch outside, stomp on it and then set it on fire.
You will be receiving another secret decoder watch tomorrow by a clandestine currier.
P.S. please douse the fire with water when finished.
AGENT SOTL
ms. billie ain't gonna liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike that.
By the way sheeps, If you are still on the membership roll at BBC, there is a real easy way to get your named removed. Any mail that you receive from BBC, just mark through your name and write
:RETURN TO SENDER: and put it back in the mail box. It worked for me and I only had to return about three items. I got the most pleasure out of returning one of those glossy, color filled brochures with a large photo of you know who.
Consernedsbcer said..........
Davy was the best pastor I have ever been privileged to have. He was a true pastor.....with us every step of the way.
Reply: Conserned, You are so right about Davy Henderson. I met Bro. Davy when I was a member @ Southland Baptist and he was Minister of Education & Music Director. He was the most godly, humbly, funny (actually, most of his jokes were corny but you liked him so much it didn't matter) man you every met. He always had a smile on his face. He was such a source of encouragement.
I really miss Bro. Davy. I was good friends with his son Jeff.
Agent SOTL: I received my watch today too. (You are right...great picture!!!) Anyway, we need to all remember to bring our watches to the next bowling party to syncronize for our mission.
Agent4110
(from my favorite verse, Is. 41:10)
feelingblue or another coach...or ex coach,
Is it true or false that another requirement from BBC leadership(along with tithing) involved a committment to attend
SS AND church?
If true,
I guess SG finally noticed that some people were choosing to leave after SS rather than listen to his slanted sermons.
To anyone in the know about the music dept.
Did KR lie to the kids on choir tour about leaving????
He was asked if he was leaving...along with if JT was leaving...
KR told some students he was NOT leaving.
Another wrong example for the young people to see...and learn from.
And WE the truth seekers are suppose to be the ones being secretive and needing church discipline???? huh????????
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