Special Ministry Celebration Service and
Annual Congregational Meeting
March 25, 10:00 a.m.
A Ministry Celebration service will be held Sunday, March 25, at 10:00 a.m. This will be a special time as we look back and celebrate the ministry victories of 2006. There will be no Bible Fellowship, and overflow seating will be provided in the Fellowship Hall.
This Worship Service will be followed by the Annual Congregational Meeting. Items to be discussed are:
- Nominations from the Committee on Committees for members to serve on all church committees
- Presentation of the church’s proposed budget for fiscal year 2007-08 from the Budget Planning Committee in conjunction with the Finance Committee
- Any other business properly the subject of consideration by the congregation may be brought forward at this meeting
Even if you're attending a different church but haven't moved your membership, please plan to be there this Sunday, at least for the first annual meeting portion.
764 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 764 Newer› Newest»A farmer with chickens has more theology offered to him than Dallas or Fuller has to offer. The clucking of a hen says more than a ship load of PHDs and theologians can comprehend.
There is no love worth finding among men!
"The crooks are in charge and won't be obeying the law or firing themselves, now will they?" writes piglet. And she continues "It is not gossip and slander to repeatedly call out these men who refuse to be held accountable. We won't be silenced like the Chinese citizens."
So piglet, please define crooks as some endearing term of use. Surely you did not mean to sin by slandering. I think that the term crook is applied to those who are convicted criminals. Convicted...oh but I forgot we have the judge, jury and blog law here to do just that! But then again you're so versed in facts that you overlook you own lies. By the way, that 'versed in facts' was sarcasm.
And Tim wrote: " There is absolutely no Biblical basis that can make an evil act good."
"But as for you, you thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good." (Gen. 50:20)
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God." (Rom. 8:28)
And finally Tim, I would suggest that you read the Old Testament story of Joseph. Yes, what men meant for evil, God can make good. But I'm sure that as an honest believer that you will accept this and not place a spin upon our situation. If you don't think that the sin that happened within our church can be used for good then you need to quit looking for man's response but God's ability to use this for His glory. May God be the One who receives the glory for righting this ship we call Bellevue. IDC is not the answer; God is the only answer!
By the way ima, I am who I am. But who I am is not important. The only important One is God.
God uses the humble to shame the proud.....who among the unleadership at BBC is a humble man???
Who is even a "man" by the example Christ lived.
No matter what happens tomorrow.... God is not restricted to BBC's timetable (or dog and pony show) AND God is not on the the resistors/truth seekers timetable... God will not be mocked.
Truth ruse,
Twist and pervert God's holy word all you want. Delude yourself that you are right up there with God and judge all of us. Look in the mirror and say those same words to yourself. You TOO will stand before Almighty God and give an account for your words and life.
Those that dare not offend their friends will stand before God. We should fear God more tham man.
Those that choose to drink milk poured by false teachers will stand before God.
Those that fear losing their jobs more than they fear losing fellowship with Jesus Christ and causing your weaker brother to stumble will stand before a Holy God.
Those who claim to be followers of Christ but use the excuse of actions by resistors/truth seekers to NOT test the actions of leadership BY THE SCRIPTURES only will stand before a Holy God.
God will judge everything by His Holy unperverted PURE word.
God will not use the partial truths so easily accepted WHICH AMOUNT TO NO TRUTH.
We are not to add or take away from God's Holy word.
This is not a battle about SG or the money brokers that want to HIDE all the links to their wealth and the contracts made with the devil.
Celebrate corruption and perversion ....SG's specialty!
Celebrate when all the resistors/truth seekers have left that unholy place called BBC.
It matters not what the results are tommorrow at the celebration of perversion.
What will Almighty God say when we stand before Him.
Let us go into our secret place today and bow before our Lord and ask HIM to search our hearts.
We cannot go into battle... OR into a bulding called BBC without clean hearts or without the full armor of the Lord.
"My friend, if Jesus were here I do believe He would be turning over the tables of the moneychangers and beating them with whips!" writes piglet
Are you wearing one of those WWJD bracelets today? I recall Dr. Rogers telling us one Sunday that his take on those bracelets were that not many of us are in a position to be sure of WWJD. Are you sure he wouldn't be asking you why you slander those He placed in authority over you.
For those searching for me....I was in the light of the sun for a while. But have now returned momentarily to the place of despair.
The FACT of the matter is that TRUTH is not ruling. It is the very core reason why all of this confusion and conflict has come about, because there has not been TRUTH ruling, but lies, and a disreguard for what is the truth. Integrity has been disposed of because the ends are the goal and any means is ok to that end.
No, if Truth ruled, we would be known as those believers who love one another and speak truth each one to his neighbor because we are of the same body.
Satan is the liar and the father of all liars.
truth rules said
So piglet, please define crooks as some endearing term of use. Surely you did not mean to sin by slandering. I think that the term crook is applied to those who are convicted criminals. Convicted...oh but I forgot we have the judge, jury and blog law here to do just that! But then again you're so versed in facts that you overlook you own lies. By the way, that 'versed in facts' was sarcasm.
Piglet says:
These guys have broken the law on FOUR occasions!! Lies, you say? Trespassing, breaking tax law, not reporting a pedophile, and concealing the books.
Nope, the shoe fits.
Could "truthrules" be at the optometrist's office? :-}
truthrules said
"My friend, if Jesus were here I do believe He would be turning over the tables of the moneychangers and beating them with whips!" writes piglet
If Jesus were here with us today we could not bear his truth, but the Holy Spirit is and I believe that money changers' tables are being overturned and whips are snaping.
truth rules said
Are you wearing one of those WWJD bracelets today? I recall Dr. Rogers telling us one Sunday that his take on those bracelets were that not many of us are in a position to be sure of WWJD. Are you sure he wouldn't be asking you why you slander those He placed in authority over you.
Piglet says:
Just reading my Bible is all.
Oh and Jesus didn't use the term crooks. I believe he said "Ye are of your father the devil" and called them whited sepulchres. This was the religious crowd who were hypocrites lording it over the follower, by the way...
ruthdrules said,
For those searching for me....I was in the light of the sun for a while. But have now returned momentarily to the place of despair.
Bipolar?
truth ruse,
Interesting that you would bring up Joseph. There is more relevance in this than you could possibly imagine.
You are vastly decieved if you are relinqished to believe that God always works without human intervention. Truth is that God seldom accomplishes his will apart from human involvement. Perhaps you need to crack open that Bible of yours and make use of it.
truth rules says:
So piglet, please define crooks as some endearing term of use. Surely you did not mean to sin by slandering. I think that the term crook is applied to those who are convicted criminals. Convicted...oh but I forgot we have the judge, jury and blog law here to do just that! But then again you're so versed in facts that you overlook you own lies. By the way, that 'versed in facts' was sarcasm.
SOTL says;
Truthruse, let me explain something to you. When the crooks
ADMIT to the crime, they do not have to be CONVICTED. They convict themselves with their confession.
Can you help me to understand how these laws that were broken have somehow been denied by the lawbreakers? I do believe, if memory serves me correctly ( and it does) that they ADMITTED to their crimes.
I would say " DUH" here, but I would get hammered.
oc said:
For those searching for me....I was in the light of the sun for a while. But have now returned momentarily to the place of despair.
Bipolar?
Sotl says to oc:
ROFL!!!
Folks, Nehemiah has signed the petition - seems he's airing a protest, though.
And it appears Ted Haggert is starting a new church.
Truth Rules - I understand your name now.....
And that's the problem, there is no 'conviction'.
Come Lord Jesus said, "Could "truthrules" be at the optometrist's office?"
Haven't the foggiest idea of what this means. Could you elaborate please? Use my email if you had rather.
oh, and truthruse,
We do not need a judge and jury ( as you put it) when the lawbreakers appear before the entire congregation and ADMIT to their crimes.
Or weren't you there?
Piglet says
"Truth Rules - I understand your name now....."
Yes...
TR says, "By the way ima, I am who I am"
??? Would you like to explain this? I am who I am? Lets see now...where have I heard this before?
ima,
??? Would you like to explain this? I am who I am? Lets see now...where have I heard this before?
I believe it was popeye.
Speaking of "truth ruse"
There has been a deliberate and concieved attempt to present the truth without being honest. The situtation concerning the "moral failure" has become a prime example. The administration indicated that they had met with the victim of this event, however they did not place this meeting in context. It appears that this meeting was not part of the investigative process, but rather a meeting called by the victim to request that the process include a meeting of all involved. That meeting was denied.
There was indeed not one but three meetings with the victim, however none of the meetings involved an inquiry of facts from the victim.
The politics of the administration, present the truth, not the whole truth. Just the parts of the truth that serve your political agenda.
Truth Ruse.
When Jesus reached for an expression of his Love for Jerusalem he morphed his language into a hen gathering her chicks because a woman's love for her husband or a mother's love for her children would corrupt God's love.
There is no love worth finding among men!
truth rules said...
I think that the term crook is applied to those who are convicted criminals.
REPLY:
CROOK: a person who engages in fradulent or criminal practices.
I see NO slander there.
Thanks, Charlie
Let's have a simple reminder this fine Saturday:
Truth is not slander.
Facts are not slander.
Truth is not gossip.
Sometimes, the truth hurts.
Especially when it's truth about your pastor that is not flattering.
Not gossip.
Not slander.
Truth.
IT is neither slander nor gossip to repeat or discuss that which has been admitted.
socwork,
Ya beat me to it.
Hi Socwork, missed ya!
truth ruse wrote:
"Are you sure he wouldn't be asking you why you slander those He placed in authority over you."
Who said He "placed" these people in authority over us? "Allowed" them to be in the positions they're in, yes, but "placed" them there because of their qualifications? Sorry, this sheeps's not buyin' it.
It just gets old... Just because a person does not like the truth, or denies the truth, does not make the truth untrue.
Facts are facts. Truth is truth regardless of whether or not a person believes it.
The whole slander/gossip card is misapplied to those truthseekers on this blog, and it's old.
I know what I know, and part of what I know is that there is still a serious problem in the pulpit of Bellevue Baptist Church.
Hint:
Truthrules' last post about eyes and specks and beams!!!
NOW try it....
Do you suppose truthrules is at the optometrist's office????
-O.O-
Thank you for stating what is and is not slander.
Slander is often used as an accusation against brethren who are speaking out against sin, or who don't agree with you. In order for it to be slanderous it must be untrue and it must be used for the purpose of deliberately trying to hurt someones reputation.
The truth is not slander. To repeat what is true because it points out sin and what is harmful is not slander, but required.
How can the church be pure and do the will of the Lord when there is pride? Lies? dishonesty? Lawlesness ? Fighting and dischord amongst the brethren ? He can't and He doesn't and to celebrate it rather than doning sack cloth and ashes is just as dishonest and deceitful.
I totally disagree with what that petition states.
Those who defend sg behavior have been not only outspoken and hostile against those who dare to disagree with them but they have also been agressively hostile. I have experienced this and I know first hand others who daily live in fear and stress because of it.
From the beginning they have told us to get out if we don't agree with them.
I feel, and it is just my feelings, that our chruch has been hyjacked. I don't even recognize it anymore. It has morphed into something ugly and you can just feel the oppression when you walk in the door. All the joy is gone. There is no trust. You don't say a word because you don't know who will turn against you.
I've also been greived and stunnecd to the core to hear all the slander and hateful talk against Dr. Rogers. How could those of you who have sat under him for years not speak such ugly and wicked things against him? And it is not a few who say these evil things against him. So don't tell me in that petition how silenty you have taken abuse of those who don't support sg. It is just as untrue as the "ity bitty fence'.
Come Lord Jesus...
See...I don't live in Memphis and though I have learned a lot of people, I don't know them. I wouldn't know who works where, etc. I wouldn't know anybody's financil standing. All of you look to me just as you would look to Jesus. The same...you all look just the same to me :) What an advantage I have! Well...of course I do know that the leadership are very wealthy men. David Coombs, Harry Smith from Alabama, and others. But they still look the same to Jesus, don't they. And to me too. So...I don't know anything about the optometrist's office? You will just have to spit it out for me I am afraid. You may use my email in my profile if you like?
Can someone explain #367 you-know-where to me -- perhaps in just 2-3 short sentences?
Truth ruse:
All of the 'judge not' scriptures are used DAILY by the 'authority' folks to shame those who dare to disagree. I heard it so much that I decided to do a total study on it using all the NT scriptures on judging.
Funny how twisted the use of those scriptures are. They are convenient, aren't they, for people who do not know the full counsel of God.
Now, we know that Paul wrote that we are to NOT judge the world but we ARE to judge those inside the Body. (1 Corinthians)
We also know that all the judging scriptures refer to being a hypocrite in the sense that I judge you for something I, too, am doing. Now, if we take the scriptures you quoted to the conclusion you think we should...then PW should still work at BBC. As a matter of fact, a murderer/rapist who claims to be saved should be allowed to pastor...after all...who are we to judge? How about an embezzler being your treasurer? No problem! We are not to judge!
I find it interesting in light of your twisting of scipture that in your view Paul and John sinnned. Paul judged Peter publicly in writing for all to read for 2000 years. He did not even go to Peter privately first! (Because it was a public sin)
Then John judges Diontrephes in writing for all to see for 2000 years. How awful! You must be furious at them. (Both Peter and Diontrephes were 'authorities' in the Body)
Here is a some great teaching you may want to consider:
http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/1520/Bob_DeWaay
and
http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/1551/Bob_DeWaay
and
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/secure/cwnetwork/article.php?ArticleID=1331
This is just my opinion, and I say it love to all of you--please re-read this from the blog administrator's comments on the front page:
"This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church can come to comment and exchange ideas in a respectful, Christian spirit. The purpose of this blog is not to confront sins affecting us individually but sins that affect us congregationally. Remember that whatever you write here could ultimately be read by the world, so please consider your words carefully and set the right tone before you hit "Publish."
It doesn't seem to me as if many of you on either side of the fence are following these guidelines.
oc wrote:
"I am who I am? Lets see now...where have I heard this before?
I believe it was popeye."
Popeye said, "I yam what I yam."
Oh yeah, you're right!
Socwork: THANK YOU!!! EXACTLY!!!!
Your 12:34 post needs to be on t-shirts we all wear!!!!
Bless your heart. You are just like a certain lady that lives here in this home. :-}
Truthrules was calling us gossipers and slanderers while engaging in this forum repeatedly. He used our LORD Jesus' parable about removing the beam out of one's eyes before seeing clearly to pluck out the speck in a brother's eye. Since it is so obvious that truthrules carries about a beam in his eye, he is in no condition to try to pluck specks out of our eyes.
He NEEDS an optometrist to help correct his vision...and seriously there is only one "Optometrist" that can help him and that One is Jesus, The Great Physician. He truly is the ONLY One Who can help any of us.
Stephen and I married "young" in life last year. HE is the one who has attended Bellevue for 9 years. I, on the other hand, had lived in Kentucky all of my life til we married and Stephen traveled to Kentucky and moved me to Memphis to be with him for Memphis is his home. I "met" Steve Gaines in September 2005 by listening to him at the Bellevue site after Stephen told me about him. Stephen, on the other hand, was here to attend Bellevue and hear him preach.
I am like you. I do not know these hirelings that inhabit Bellevue. This is to a great advantage for you and for me for God is able to let us discern things about these "men" (and woman) without the flesh distractions of knowing these people by association with them.
Knowing they are rich in money and goods means absolutely nothing to me for in the years I was alone in Kentucky with only The LORD Jesus and my kitty-cat Tumbelina Joy, I met the richest of the rich (Jesus) and EVERYTHING pales next to Him.
Reminds me of the time I was driving and bragging to The LORD Jesus of His beautiful earth and trees and grass. Suddenly The Holy Spirit spoke to my heart and said "I am going to burn it up." This caught me off-guard and startled me!!! He had spoken it so plainly to my spirit. He then brought to my mind the Scriptures where it is told to us plainly by The Holy Ghost that He indeed IS going to burn this old world up "and the works therein". So, realizing this, what is there down here of riches of money and goods that mean anything? HE is the treasure that we are put here on earth to find. If we do find Him, THEN and ONLY then are we rich.
You, too, are welcome to email us anytime. You are also welcome to visit our website that The LORD Jesus has given to us "Living Hope In Jesus" (www.livinghopeinjesus.com).
Thanks for the encourager that you are for all of us!
I'm reminded of the part in the Brother Karamozov by Dostoevsky where Christ return during the Spanish Inquisition, he is placed on trial and they try to kill him all over again.
The leadership has plainly circled the wagons, evident in a continuous and predictable manner; now these yes men want to call it slander to point out he manner. Let the puppies bark and wish them good tidings.
Tim, et al,
I find it interesting that when an error is pointed out specifically that you guys go to a lot of effort to parse words and attack those who position may differ. Hmmm...sound familiar?
Tim while you didn't clarify your original statement you chose to challenge me on by ability to understand Scripture. Why not speak to the statement I challenged rather than making it personal? But is it more about appearances than the search for truth? Hmmm...sound familiar?
Then those of you who like to challenge my log-on "Truth Rules". Yes let make fun, rearrange the letters, and revel in our juvenile cleverness. I've never said that my opinions were the absolute truth. But as some stated (as I've before) it doesn't matter your opinion of the truth. Truth doesn't change....truth does rule. But those more willing to tear down a concept or dishonor the truth probably doesn't care.
By the way....today I am in the single minority. Tomorrow let see how well you stand to the front and call people crooks to their face. Please continue your normal activity....attacking those with whom you disagree and honoring those who agree...even if they are non-Believers. Oh, and be sure to call the BBC an unholy church...and the majority blinded and misguided. Your bitterness and spite will reveal your inner soul to all.
I am disappointed in the number of participants. This petition has been up since Tuesday and we don't even have 400 legitimate signatures. I've sent hundreds of emails notifying BBC members of this petition. It only takes a minute to sign, so we should easily have 5,000 signatures by now. What is wrong with you people?
Bellevue, let's show the misguided naysayers how we really feel about our pastor. Show your support for Brother Steve.
Please show your love and support for Brother Steve today!
The support for Steve must be severly waining or perhaps it was not there to begin with. We have been told for months of the majority that are so strongly supportative and they struggle to reach a respectable show of support.
This lack of support was known months ago. Chuck Taylor made it visibly apparent when he was unable to obtain less than half of the deacons support on a pledge of support.
The standing ovations were easily brought to a sudden and complete halt and were instigated by a select few in the first place.
For months supporters have posted and touted their majority as if it were truth. It is not. The vast majority has looked beyond the truth ruse and seen the deception and problems within.
truth ruse,
It would appear that you prefer yourself to parse words claiming to take the high road while launching artilary of your own. Perhaps you garner yourself to be so clever in your own attacks.
I believe that you will be surprised by those that are in attendance tomorrow. I believe that you will also be surprised at those who are not and especially the number that pile out the door at the end of the service and beginning of the meeting.
So name the prophets and men of God that were in the majority according to Scripture. Please don't forget the majority that crucified Christ.
Truth Ruse,
Please help me to understand how it is slanderous to repeat that which has been admitted to.
Thanks.
sickofthelies,
Please plan on attending tomorrow. We would love for you to sit with our family.
ONLYAMEMBER:
Welcome to the new and improved BBC. Go and read the signatures on the " support brother steve' page and you will realize that it doesn't matter WHAT he does...they are blind followers.
Question:
Is the family not OUTRAGED? Can they not contact the news media? Our children are not safe in that church. That has become painfully apparent.
Only a Member: I had wondered what the latest was concerning this situation. You make great points. The "administration" needs to understand that they should go above and beyond the norm because of the overwhelming negative perception of the church leadership now. This situation is being talked about and does need to be discussed openly and with a sincere repentant spirit. As usual, jmho.
to onlyamember:
I can hardly believe what you wrote! Can this possible be true? If it is, I think it should be noised about. How could such "strong armed" tactics be used in our church? Handcuffs? What was the girl accused of? How old is she?
This is the new spirit of bellevue. And they say they sit back and silently watch the opposition! Yea, with handcuffs and no questions! This is just the beginning.
Rod Almondmartanti said...
to onlyamember:
I can hardly believe what you wrote! Can this possible be true? If it is, I think it should be noised about. How could such "strong armed" tactics be used in our church? Handcuffs? What was the girl accused of? How old is she?
This is the new spirit of bellevue. And they say they sit back and silently watch the opposition! Yea, with handcuffs and no questions! This is just the beginning.
REPLY:
Go back to the TRUTH TRUMPS thread, scroll down to onlyamember's first post and read on from there. It will make you sick.
Check out #395 you-know-where. In case it gets deleted before you see it, here it is:
"Sooth Sayer -- Bro. Steve: Would you and Donna come and bless my business like you did for that warehouse in B'ham? I know that you two picked out furniture and wall hangings that you believed were "demonic" and had the owners to throw them out. Perhaps the reason my business is failing is becuase I have wall hangings and furniture where demons dwell, as well. Could you come and do an exorcism on my business like you did on that one in B'ham? I would really appreciate it. Thanks. P.S. I'm sure there are many who don't think this is a true story, but you and I know the truth, don't we?"
I've been wondering why there hasn't been any discussion about this one before. I believe an employee's avian hunting trophy was among the casualties of their after-hours exorcistic sweep. What's next? Garlic necklaces to ward off vampires?
How could a man sodomize his young innocent son seventeen years ago for over eighteen months and then go to church where he prayed, counselled and taught classes? How could he walk the halls for so many years and not be revealed?
Was the Holy Spirit aware of this? Did He try to do anything to put a stop to this monster? Did He put a stirring into someones spirit that something was not right?
Where was Steve Gaines at during all these years?
truth rules said
Tomorrow let see how well you stand to the front and call people crooks to their face. Please continue your normal activity....attacking those with whom you disagree and honoring those who agree...even if they are non-Believers. Oh, and be sure to call the BBC an unholy church...and the majority blinded and misguided. Your bitterness and spite will reveal your inner soul to all.
Piglet says:
The majority crucufied Jesus. I would not be surprised if we were voted out of the church tomorrow. That changes nothing of the truth, as you say. We have a carnal pastor and that is the truth.
I doubt we could call them crooks, which they are, and not be silenced. RRO say everything has to be presented as a motion.
Bitterness and spite? How about fighting for truth and righteousness? No, I do not believe the majority want truth and righteousness.
I once said that BBC would have to pick me up and throw me out battered and bleeding because I would never leave. The irony is, I have been engaged in this spiritual warfare and look up to find that BBC has left me instead. There is nothing left of the BBC I knew. Nothing to leave anymore.
NBBCOF said,
I've been wondering why there hasn't been any discussion about this one before. I believe an employee's avian hunting trophy was among the casualties of their after-hours exorcistic sweep. What's next? Garlic necklaces to ward off vampires?
What's next: Voodoo?
Thanks Charlie, I'll do that.
Rod
"By the way....today I am in the single minority. Tomorrow let see how well you stand to the front and call people crooks to their face. Please continue your normal activity....attacking those with whom you disagree and honoring those who agree...even if they are non-Believers. Oh, and be sure to call the BBC an unholy church...and the majority blinded and misguided. Your bitterness and spite will reveal your inner soul to all."
I agree, nothing will come of this meeting, except perhaps a concise puntuation, a path to closure, even if all attempts to authentic accountability and reconciliation are thwarted. Yeah, but they will be like lambs going to slaughter.
This is the beginning of the healing process, truthseekers--a right of passage--and look on it in such a manner; be happy and hopeful no matter what. Say goodbye, then look to one another during the transition. You're still a church if you choose to be.
Hold no bitterness and forgive those whom may have harmed you and Bellevue.
On a humorous note, please forgive the yes mens' overuse of this threadbare sentence:
"...attacking those with whom you disagree."
Thousands of words pass these threads daily--to which disagreement are these people constantly refering? "You ridicule me because you diagree with me."
Within the context of a "written" forum, you are what you write--you are the strength of your rhetoric or lack thereof, period (unless, of course, participants share a different social context).
I found the above quotation particularly funny. These guys don't speak in particulars; To what do you disagree? Perhaps that the Pastor has been accountable to his failure in the Pedophile scandal? Is that the disagreement? I don't know--do tell. Someone used the term "crook," are we all now guilty by sharing the thread? Is that what why they attack your "position?"
Coming here to pronounce your loyalty--without recognizing the absolutely reasonable concerns and injuries of other church menbers--is not an invitation to dialogue, it is, rather, a pretext, and thus suspends the opportunity for meaningful exchange. All that remains is ridicule.
There's really no where to go with slipshod reasoning ammended with scripture. The practice really irritates me, because it seems an attempt to sanctify any ole tired argument. Like, grace not only bestows eternal life to the Christian, but some kind of ticket to ride.
Piglet said, I once said that BBC would have to pick me up and throw me out battered and bleeding because I would never leave. The irony is, I have been engaged in this spiritual warfare and look up to find that BBC has left me instead.
That, Piglet, is truly profound. You aren't the one doing the 'leaving'. And maybe 'BBC' isn't the only 'One' leaving, either. If truth leaves, if integrity leaves, if compassion leaves, then guess Who else leaves?
Piglet and OC: Has He already left? Your posts are truly heartbreaking and true.
Could a large, stately and gallant church be built upon the personal magic of leadership?
Could he arouse personal and popular loyalty in such a way that there was no need of by-laws nor the presence of the Holy Spirit to guide them?
Could this be the reason a pedophile was allowed to roam the halls?
What a witness to the community and the world the New Bellevue has become!
After all they have heard on the talk stations and read in the news paper, blogged etc. now we have the police that were called on that poor 15 year old girl, whom Bellevue handcuffed and cussed at, remark that They Had Never Seen ANYTHING like this at a church before!!!!
I have a question: how is it possible to have so many professing Christians be so blind to all that not only has happened but continues to take place? Isn't this just past outrageous?
They refused to let her go to her parents? what's this? Her parents are her guardians and they were in church and they took a minor, handcuffed her, cussed at her and didn't even go to her parent who were only a few steps away! Instead they went to "big brother" and turned her in FIRST?
This is truely beyond the pale.
"I'm reminded of the part in the Brother Karamozov by Dostoevsky where Christ return during the Spanish Inquisition, he is placed on trial and they try to kill him all over again."
My favorite character is the old invalid orthodox priest who mentors the youngest brother. Fantastic book.
" Bro. Steve: Would you and Donna come and bless my business like you did for that warehouse in B'ham? I know that you two picked out furniture and wall hangings that you believed were "demonic" and had the owners to throw them out."
Someone please tell me this is a joke.
Concerned,
No, I don't think He has left; I say this because of His people, many on this blog, who have fought for Him to stay. If He had gone, I think there would be no 'fight'.
But I do think that He is sovereign, and should certain people remain 'hard hearted', 'stiff necked', etc., He certainly could remove his favor. Arrogance seems to be the flavor of the day, some seem to be playing fast and loose with 'power', picking and choosing what constitutes truth, ignoring facts and treating some as 'second class Christians'. (The 'Amener', the girl/security episode, intimidation tactics, etc.).
So,how much will He put up with?
Rod,
I have spoken with ONLYAMEMBER in person and I have also spoken with the mother of the 15 y/o girl in person as well as her 16 y/o sister.
I can tell you that this happened.
These people are VERY credible.
ONLYAMEMBER had with her, in her possession, a notebook full of signed, eyewitness accounts.
This is a sad day for BBC, yet, go over to the petition page and look at the pathetic signatures on there. They don't care WHAT this man, or his goons do. They are going to blindly follow him, NO MATTER WHAT.
May God have mercy on us.
Lin,
It is NOT a joke!!!
I promise you it is not!!!
New BBC Open Forum said...
Check out #395 you-know-where. In case it gets deleted before you see it, here it is:
"Sooth Sayer -- Bro. Steve: Would you and Donna come and bless my business like you did for that warehouse in B'ham? I know that you two picked out furniture and wall hangings that you believed were "demonic" and had the owners to throw them out. Perhaps the reason my business is failing is becuase I have wall hangings and furniture where demons dwell, as well. Could you come and do an exorcism on my business like you did on that one in B'ham? I would really appreciate it. Thanks. P.S. I'm sure there are many who don't think this is a true story, but you and I know the truth, don't we?"
Sheepless says,
Well lookie here! Been wonderin when this would hit the streets!!
Looks like things just keep showing up..what's the phrase?
"Where there's so MUCH smoke, there's gotta be some fire!!
NASS, thanks for copying this, I'm sure that won't last long over there.
I'm so gland to know that its ok for a pedophile to stay on at chruch and be ahead of the prayer ministry, but an innocent 15 year old girl is ripped from the service and handcuffed and cussed at and the police are called while her parents are sitting in the service and kept from her. This ought to make all of us proud for keeping silent and not demanding aaccountability.
Rod,
It appears that the pastor needed more protection from a 15 y/o girl, sitting in church and worshipping then our children at BBC needed from a pedophile.
watchinghistory,
If you have an opinion then please speak out. However, the questions that you are asking produce nothing of substance nor of relevance. What was known or not known for 17 years is irrelevant at this point. It is relevant however that it was known and ignored for over 6 months. Pray tell why did the Holy Spirit not prick your heart years ago over this issue so that you could enlighten the church. Your blatant attempt to spread the blame in this situation is devious at best.
"I have a question: how is it possible to have so many professing Christians be so blind to all that not only has happened but continues to take place? Isn't this just past outrageous?"
I absolutely agree! . . and for seventeen years. . .can you believe it?
You know, I've always wondered if Donna and Steve went back to that warehouse and went ' dumpster diving' after dark.
Just sayin.
I said,
So,how much will He put up with?
I need to add,
I don't know, but I wouldn't push it!
whtgjhWhere are our decons? What do they have to fear for standing up to this ternary? Shame on them for fearing man and not God! Where is the leadership that sees what is going on? Have they all been fired?
Is there no one in authority that is willing to take a stand for Truth?
What does this say to the young people of the chruch? What sort of an example are they seeing lived out?
Rod,
Welcome to our world.
Hey Guys,
I called Comcast and they helped me to run off the little man in my computer!!!
So now I am free to post whenever I feel like it!!!
Rod, I feel your pain. I'm afraid instead of godly leaders, instead all we have running Bellevue is a bunch of selfish, greedy moonbats who do not care about the congregation and what issues they have. If they had any concern at all, they would have addressed these issues in a swift and respectable manner. I guarantee that had Bellevue been proactive in adressing members concerns and instead of waiting till it reached the boiling point, this blog would not exist and the church would thrive. When I see the 3 crosses as I get off the interstate in the morning, all I feel is shame and embarassment.
Oh, BTW, someone must have been raising cain about I2 because this time i2 is unplugged.
Piglet says:
The majority crucufied Jesus. I would not be surprised if we were voted out of the church tomorrow. That changes nothing of the truth, as you say. We have a carnal pastor and that is the truth.
Sheepless says,
Piglet, I have given serious thought to that very thing. I even called Thur or Fri to one of the 2 places we all love that does honor and serve the Lord, to inquire if they can hold a membership of BBC for us until we make a final decision on a church home. The one I called does not have the capability to do this, but I was given a contact person at the other one to check on this. Not that I really feel they will vote us out, but more for my own desire to possibly remove my membership from BBC after the results on Sunday.
What a sorrowful time for all of us. How can so many people be blind to the truth?
Piglet says, "RRO say everything has to be presented as a motion."
Well...this is all well and good, but remember that things have not been going according 'the rules'. I pray for all of you that a certain protocal will be followed, but just prepare yourselves for the unusual just in case. These are not normal times. They used to throw the Christians to the lions. They still do. Pray not tomorrow.
"What does this say to the young people of the chruch? What sort of an example are they seeing lived out? "
Rod, I am hoping someone teaches them some truth like this article from John Piper on Unity 'boys' vs. Purity 'boys' in Watch out for those who lead You away from truth:
http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2006/1872_Watch_Out_for_Those_Who_Lead_You_Away_from_the_Truth/
Sorry, but I cannot do links in comments. Copy the URL into the browser.
Koragg,
They don't have I2 anymore?
I would think that in the new and improved BBC, all the I2 sex in the bathrooms and everything else would not be "judged".
To watchinghistory:
Now that is slander.
You have no knowledge of what was known 17 years ago and you are calling Mrs Rogers a liar. YOU are the gossip because you are saying things you know are not true.
Mrs. Rogers has made it very clear no one knew about PW. You are deliberately guilty of slander for your own ends. You are tarnishing a man's reputation who has gone home to be with the Lord because you love a man and serve him.
Paul Williams himself told Mrs Rogers that Dr. Rogers knew nothing of it so you are calling P.w a liar also.
SOTL,
There's a little man in your computer? Hope you didn't pay extra for that!
Watch out for those
I am testing to see if this link works...my last url on Piper got cut off
SOTL,
Unplugged is what is known in music as not having the electric guitars and such. All acoustic instruments.
i2 is still around unfortunately.
Watchinghistory,
God's timing is always perfect.
lin wrote:
"Someone please tell me this is a joke."
Sadly, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
OC,
Well, yes, being computer illiterate as I am, that is the ONLY way I can understand that sometimes, when he takes a nap, I am allowed to post.
However, the comcast guy on the phone ran off the little man in my computer and now I can post whenever, wherever.
SHE'S BAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK
I should add that Ryan Wingo's leading the music and Tim Shelton who is Bellevue's Career minister is doing the speaking.
SOTL,
Cool. Glad you're BAAAAAAAAAACK!
The pity of it all is not that sin remained hidden for years, but that when it was exposed it was ignored. Often sin is hidden and often it is for long periods of time. The Lord determines to uncover that which is done in darkness according to His own timing not by our own self generated devine inspiration.
The things that once were condemned to slink in dark alleys are now strutting down main street at high noon.
Men of Bellevue should be ashamed that they do not have enough brass to stand up and be counted. There is certainly a price to be paid for having your voice heard. The price may be pride, position, or power. The cost of doing what is right is so small in contrast to the rewards of eternity. Christ has not given us the Spirit of fear that any should slump into a corner in a fetal position. It is high time to don the armour of God be called to attention and sent forth in battle. Christianity was not meant for cowards.
SOTL,
My computer is beyond slow today and has been slowing for several weeks now.
I was getting concerned that maybe A-- our genius had infected it with a worm somehow.
ie..when I try to go from the blog to the petition, it takes forever, I just have to leave my office and do something else til it connects. Do you think my problem could Comcast? I didn't do anything to switch from RR to comcast, assumed it was automatic. I have been having intermittent problems for a few months now. Help.
WatchHIStory,
We tried so hard yesterday to answer your post that you have more or less been led to post (though in different words) again today at 2:56 p.m.
If you will reread the post addressed to you from us of yesterday, you will find the answers to your questions. Yesterday, you got side-tracked with the last of our post to you (pertaining to Gaines) and missed the main message of the entire post.
YES, The Holy Spirit in God's faithfulness HAD to have revealed much to men of God at Bellevue through the years but was silenced by the same men of God mentally...for they judged by the appearance rather than taking a look at the heart that God was revealing through the gift of discernment given unto them by Him. They dismissed "the check in their spirit" preferring their flesh evaluation of all they had seen, heard, and felt when around the one that God was zeroing in on. They saw no need, based upon their flesh mental evaluation, to "try the spirits" as God so desired for them to do.
They dismissed it all by saying unto themselves that "the check could not have possibly been of God."
You are correct when you said yesterday that the path to where Bellevue is today has indeed been traveled for a long, long, long time before Gaines ever entered the door. There have been hirelings in hiding for years at Bellevue. PW happened to be one of them.
"Paul Williams himself told Mrs Rogers that Dr. Rogers knew nothing of it so you are calling P.w a liar also."
Actually, Rod, PW is a liar. His behavior and lifestyle prove it.
There ARE people at BBC who knew 17 years ago. However, I believe we have ascertained that Rogers was not one of them. I can personally attest to some Sr. Pastors at megas not knowing much about what goes on with staff unless they are told by senior staff. It is amazing what is hidden from a pastor who is not a micromanager.
The big ego pastors tend to micromanage while developing 'yes men' around them and throw lots of tantrums. (Because it is all about 'them' and their image)
sheep
Apparently, I had a router problem that was keeping me from ANY secured spot. I was not even allowed to see my bank statement!!!
We had two routers and the Comcast man on the telephone did something where he could take over my computer ( I could actually watch the little arrow move around on the screen) and then he directed me how to unplug the routers and get rid of one of them.
It took us about an hour.
But now it's fixed and I'm happy.
I still prefer road runner, but that's water under the proverbial bridge.
I would call Comcast and see if they could direct you to their online service department and maybe they can help you.
Koragg said...
Oh, BTW, someone must have been raising cain about I2 because this time i2 is unplugged.
Sheepless asks Koragg,
Does this mean they have i2? Sun night at the mtg, they said it would start back soon? Do you know differently? I agree it should be stopped. Have you noticed how the young people are dressing in church lately? Or undressing may be more accurate.
tim said:
The things that once were condemned to slink in dark alleys are now strutting down main street at high noon
sotl says:
Tim, the sad thing is that people that I have known for years and years, people I respected, are doing the strutting.
It's as though they have no idea that all these things that SG has done are wrong!!!
They have a defense for EVERYTHING!!!
There's a link for how to post a link on the front page. It's pretty simple.
1. Type a < sign.
2. Type an a.
3. Insert one space.
4. Type the letters href.
5. Type an = sign.
6. Type a " sign.
7. Paste the URL right after the " sign.
8. Type another " sign after the URL.
9. Type a > sign.
10. Type any word(s) you want to appear in blue which will be the word(s) people click on.
11. Type a < sign.
12. Type a / sign.
13. Type an a.
14. Type a > sign.
That's all there is to it!
Ok, guys, I'm going out for a while.
Tim, check your email. :)
offline
David Brown has asked that the name of the victim and the victim's father not be mentioned, at his request. Let's show enough compassion to observe that reasonable policy, please.
piglet, obviously you don't understand spiritual warfare. You are spending your time fighting flesh and blood.
PUT ON THE WHOLE ARMOUR OF GOD, THAT YE MAY BE ABLE TO STAND AGAINST THE WILES OF THE DEVIL. FOR WE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT AGAINST PRINCIPALITIES, AND POWERS, AGAINST THE RULERS OF THE DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD, AGAINST SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES [IN THE HEAVENLIES]."
Romans 16:17-20
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. Such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Ok, I know I said I was going, but I have to say this:
A few years ago, I went to my daughter's SS open house.
One of the little girls in that class was dressed so slutty, I could NOT believe it. Both of her parents were there.
She had on a spandex top and bottom, that I think, were meant to be underwear. The "skirt" BARELY covered her backside and the "top" was more like a bra.
It was like she forgot to put her clothes on over her underwear. Yet, there sat her parents, clueless that their little girl looked like she belonged at Platinum Plus.
It embarassed me for the 3 of them.
T rules said,
piglet, obviously you don't understand spiritual warfare. You are spending your time fighting flesh and blood.
Why would you say that?
KORAGG, just saw your answer on i2 to SOTL. Thanks
SOTL, Thanks for info on Comcast..
Nass, the link instructions have never worked for me in the comments section on blogger. I tried a new tactic that adds a step and it worked...this time!
(I think something in my html is messed up...I would get an engine error from norton)
rod said
"You have no knowledge of what was known 17 years ago and you are calling Mrs Rogers a liar. YOU are the gossip because you are saying things you know are not true."
Psalms 43:3 said
"The issue of whether Dr. Rogers knew about a child molester on staff has already been answered. If you don't believe Mrs. Rogers, the committee who investigated the matter, or the offender himself I guess you can't be persuaded."
I posted back:
Since you brought the subject up it needs to be addressed.
I believe that Dr. Rogers did not know and that has been established.
The real problem is why didn't he know for so many years. Was the pedophile that smart? Could he pray and counsel with so many people and no one discerned a fierce and vile spirit. Naturally a man can be fooled and not discern in his mind such an evil.
But we have the mind of Christ and the Spirit of Truth. When God is manifested in our midst, unbelievers have the secrets of their hearts open and they fall on their face. Where has this been at Bellevue?
I know for myself and all the people I have fellowshiped with that when I have sinned or others sin there is a troubling of Spirits. While none of us are perfect we have the perfect one working with us to bring us toward perfection.
Was the pedophile allowed by God to freely roam the halls and his voice be the voice of God in a friece and strange speech which cannot be comprehended.
The understanding is given to the tender and the meek, precept by precept. The self determined will not hear nor understand. They can't give a distinct sound to prepare the faithful for battle.
Where are the tender and meek at Bellevue? Are there any at all?
Please don't tell me to keep silent before God and man on this. Silence is what got you into this mess.
4:14 PM, March 23, 2007
"obviously you don't understand spiritual warfare. You are spending your time fighting flesh and blood."
Uh...are you trying to imply 'the devil made me do it' in terms of what is going on at BBC?
Why are your leaders allowing Satan to rule at BBC? Pedophile ministers (who would STILL be there but for this blog), itty bitty fences, dreams, secrecy of finances, giving money to apostate churches, etc.
You see, Satan HATES scripture. He loves for it to be ignored in the Body.
Shouldn't Gaines, of all people, know better? Shouldn't the shepherd model the 'armor'?
WH said:
When God is manifested in our midst, unbelievers have the secrets of their hearts open and they fall on their face. Where has this been at Bellevue?
SOTL says:
Have you not watched SG fall on his face time after time? We have watched him make one " mistake" after another. Some of us see it for what it is, while others are so eager to follow ANYONE that they are willing to over look ANYTHING he does.
Must I post my list for you again?
No,lin, make him answer. T rules, why would you say that?
Watchinghisstory,
Are you just wanting a debate or to stir up trouble?
You have not been at BBC very long, said you previously were a pentecostal minister, your profie shows an astrological sign and the chinese sign of Dog.
Where are your beliefs, are you putting your faith in astrology or in God? The two are not compatible.
"No,lin, make him answer. T rules, why would you say that? "
He/she has still not responded to my request for the quotes from Tamara's book that he/she maligned on the last thread. And, he/she has not responded to my 'judging' comment abuot how he/she twisted scripture for 'benefit'.
So, why expect an answer. Maybe he/she is calling Coombs about what to say?
Or maybe he/she is calling Gaines to go through his house looking for demon possessed couches.
Watchinghisstory,
Haven't you figured it out yet..the pedophile is a sick man, he lived every day to hide and cover his sins. Remember what SOTL said, "Pedophilia thrives in silence".
You seem to be playing the blame game...the only people to blame are the pedophile and Steve Gaines, the Sr pastor of BBC, who knew about the pedophile and let him roam the halls and keep an office and salary until Gaines was forced to do something about it.
T rules said,
piglet, obviously you don't understand spiritual warfare. You are spending your time fighting flesh and blood.
Why would you say that?
No home training, maybe?
Rod said
Is there no one in authority that is willing to take a stand for Truth?
What does this say to the young people of the chruch? What sort of an example are they seeing lived out?
Piglet says:
Exactly why we CAN'T continue to subject our impressionable boys to this outrage!! But atleast their Dad has stood up and been a MAN in all of this if many others haven't.
WatchingHIStory,
YOU were a Pentecostal preacher? With references to demonic spiritism in your profile pertaining to Zodiac sign, etc.???
I am embarrassed! Speaking to you about discernment of spirits and here you are hand-holding spiritism!!!
You quote Scriptures to us yet it is apparent that you have torn the pages of God's Word out pertaining to His Words about astrology, etc, etc. What a blind hypocrite!!! You can't tell me you learned such from Pentecostalism because it was from such people that The LORD Jesus taught me so much about the evils of spiritism.
Take your eyes of of PW, Gaines, etc. etc. etc. and place your eyes upon YOURSELF, you hypocrite!!! Displaying what God calls an abomination in your profile!!! Having what God calls an abomination in your heart!!!
What have YOU done with The Holy Spirit that would have told you plainly that such was sin? How did YOU silence Him?
You are as the old expression goes..."the pot calling the kettle black!"
REPENT!!!
sheepless,
There is some sort of bone that WH has to pick with Dr. Rogers and it has been brought up before concerning the direction that he led the SBC. Instead of stating facts and opinions they have chose to hurl snipes veiled in self righteous spiritualism.
Perhaps WH can answer why it was that after 3 years with Jesus the disciples did not know who it was that would betray him. It must have been because of the spiritual immaturity that they had received from their rabbi.
Look, I just want y'all to know that I am right, and if you don't agree with my, as yet, unstated opinion, then you're a hater.
How could you be so intolerant to the simple, unqualified statement that you are dead wrong about something I'd rather not even broach.
In my service and someone elses.
Cakes
I don't attend BBC. I visited often with friends and sometimes went alone.
Five or six years ago I went with a friend to a Wed. night service and I got two "checks" in my spirit. Dr. Rogers preached an "emerging message" about church growth. Secondly, he embarrassed a woman who interrupted his preaching. These seem to be isolated instances that would be inconsequencial but I cannt get away from them.
These checks have driven me to believe that there is something wrong with fundamentalism in America. I have come to believe that American fundamentalism has a spirit of self determination that interfers with the purity of the gospel.
Oh boy, and let's start with the 'ugly American' thing while we're at it. Here we go....
The Sunday after Dr. Gaines told BBC about PW's "moral failure" I spoke to a good friend of ours that has known PW for 30+ years. He went to the PW's home the evening Gaines told BBC. He asked PW if he had ever told Dr. Rogers. He said PW told him there was no way he could have ever told Dr. Rogers what he did. That it would have killed him for Dr. Rogers to know something like that about him. He also said he had a written a statement he wanted read when Steve Gaines made the announcement, and Gaines refused.
WatchingHIStory,
YOU ARE A FRONT!!!
truth ruse,
Perhaps you are unaware that principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness can be manifest in business', governments and people.
I Corinthians 6:3-4
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
WatchingHISstory said...
Last Nov 4-6 100 students, pastors, and church planters were at Fuller's Theological Seminary to learn about the Emerging Church.
http://www.fuller.edu/news/htm/church_growth04.asp
Before Rick Warren I was opposed to the new methods of Donald McGavran, C Peter Wagner and John Wimber. My intro was in the 70's and as a pastor for 25 years I recognized a Church growth message at Bellevue on a Wednersday night five or six years ago. As a former pentecostal minister who was looking for a good Baptist church I knew that Bellevue was deffinitely not the place for good solid preaching which is my main criteria for a church. The good Word must be declared! Everything else takes back seat. I was opposed to the emerging church and Belevue was emergent in my opinion. The sermon I heard that night was what most of you are opposing. You might be biting off more than you can chew.
9:33 PM, March 20, 2007
SHEEPLESS SAYS,
Watchinghisstory,
A pastor 25 yrs, penecostal minister, belives in ASTROLOGY!!!
Why are you no longer a pastor, did your congregation find out you believed in Astrology??!!
truth rules
I spent two whole years of in depth study with my children on spiritual warfare and the full armor of God before this ever started. No coincidence, I'm sure, considering what we have been through as a family these last six months.
I do believe Satan is at work at Bellevue, and, frankly, in churches all over America - using much the same strategy everywhere.
I also see this as a slide toward the one world church. BBC now has a pastor who defended "sharing" with another church even though we don't have the same beliefs. Just the beginning - unity is the goal and truth is lost. Unity is the new gospel - straight from Hell, being preached from the pulpit at BBC. Unity will be the gospel of the new world order and the one world church because if we all "get together" we can battle all the social ills in the world. RW is off like a rocket with this one.
You think I don't "get" spiritual warfare?
Quite the contrary, TR. I think some people think I'm a little off the deep end seeing this as a satanic conspiracy instead of being isolated and all about Steve Gaines. Not me - you've got me all wrong. :)
Gloriously dark, folks....
SOTL
Glad you're back and got that little man out of your computer! :)
Check in with y'all later!
(offline)
I was at my church one month when I found out the clerk had been embezzlling and one woman was having affairs with several men of the church. I found out these things and dealt with them while on my knees in prayer.
Needless to say when you stir up a hornets nest you are going to have trouble. With the sympathizers of thoes who left the church over sin went the tithe payers. Maybe if I had been silent like those at Bellevue I would be pastoring a big church today.
Looking for work! SOTL kicked me out!
ok guys, give ws a bit of a break. Unless you realize what blogger does, you don't know about the astrology thing. The trick is NOT putting in your birthday.
WS, fix your profile unless you like being born in the year of the 'rat' :o).
And let it go about Rogers. Tim is right. Judas was right there hearing the teaching and the 'super apostles', as Paul referred to them, did not discern Judas. Gee, I wonder why? Because God planned it that way.
Ted Haggard was president of the National Evangelical Association and no one figured him out either...until...the election.
RC Sproul filed an unbiblical lawsuit and it backfired and brought out all kinds of financial and corrupt shennanigans in his para church 'ministry'. Still, many share a stage with him to this day. They simply do not care.
Gods ways are not our ways and His timing is always perfect. He is calling out His own. We should Praise Him for that and get on our faces in repentance and contend for the truth.
Thanks, Lin. I was just about to post the same info. I believe some people on here owe WS an apology for their remarks toward him regarding this issue.
piglet said
"I do believe Satan is at work at Bellevue, and, frankly, in churches all over America - using much the same strategy everywhere"
Actually Satan is great but not omni-present, powerful nor knowledgeable. He has bigger fish to fry than Bellevue or American Churches. American doesn't even rate a place in end-times prophecy.
There are more important places for him to be. But he does have subordinates that rule for him in America. He gets periodic reports from them, I'm sure. For the most part America assist Satan in his efforts in other parts of the world.
The name of the spiritual subordinate that rules American fundamentalism is "Self Determination". So we are not wrestling flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in high places.
lin wrote: "Uh...are you trying to imply 'the devil made me do it' in terms of what is going on at BBC?"
Well this one time I'll violate my self imposed position from responding to you lin. You are very much a Pharisee as I see it so I don't care to respond. But in this instant your assumptions is just Stupid with a capital S. But that's for sharing more of your irrelevant ignorance to our situation. Back to my isolation from you...
I will let go of Rogers when God lets go of me about Rogers. Take that up with him not me
God has deffinitely talked to me about what is going on and I am in too deep to back out now.
There needs to be a lifting of the veil of sympathy for Rogers. Some of you treat Gaines terribly (and I am not a Gaines supporter. I don't esteem one above the other)
But when someone mentions Rogers up goes the veil. You need the truth not the half-truth. The demon of self-determination has you blinded to the truth.
piglet, then forgive me if I've misjudged your approach. I wasn't aware that you were using the Word of God, the Holy Spirit and prayer to battle this evil. Seems to me that you've been attacking fleshly men rather than satan. I don't think blogging against Christ's church and ministers of the Gospel is what Paul had in mind. And speaking of Paul, his past probably would have prevented many of you from associating with him.
Piglet said, "I do believe Satan is at work at Bellevue, and, frankly, in churches all over America - using much the same strategy everywhere. I also see this as a slide toward the one world church. BBC now has a pastor who defended "sharing" with another church even though we don't have the same beliefs. Just the beginning - unity is the goal and truth is lost. Unity is the new gospel - straight from Hell, being preached from the pulpit at BBC. Unity will be the gospel of the new world order and the one world church because if we all "get together" we can battle all the social ills in the world. RW is off like a rocket with this one."
EXACTLY!!! GO GET 'EM LITTLE PIGGIE!!!
IMA
watchhishistory wrote: "God has definitely talked to me about what is going on and I am in too deep to back out now."
And just what does God tell you about Dr. Rogers? I would be interested to know how God is communicating this to you. Personally you are on thin ice to come on this blog and try and discredit our former pastor. Not that I've given your voice any credibility before but now it's down to zero.
truth rules said...
piglet, then forgive me if I've misjudged your approach. I wasn't aware that you were using the Word of God, the Holy Spirit and prayer to battle this evil. Seems to me that you've been attacking fleshly men rather than satan. I don't think blogging against Christ's church and ministers of the Gospel is what Paul had in mind. And speaking of Paul, his past probably would have prevented many of you from associating with him.
TR: Your post is unbelieveable. You obviously have not reading very carefullly if you haven't figured that we have been on our knees and in the Word about this whole situation. It seems to me that a fleshly man is battling God's people right now. And with regard to your comment about Paul...what in the world would make you think that? Have you (and your buddies) not criticized us FOR associating with one on the blog that believes differently than all of us?
NASS: You've got mail.
TR: If I have misunderstood your attack on Piglet and your post in general, please explain it to me. Thanks.
tim wrote: "Perhaps you are unaware that principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness can be manifest in business', governments and people.
I Corinthians 6:3-4
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church."
This must be over my head. I recall these Scriptures without looking them up. This is the part of Paul's letter where he speaks of a brother suing another brother. The 2 second view of this is that we are not to take our brothers into a worldly court. I am not sure how you've extrapolated your meaning from that. I don't disagree with your statement. I just don't see the tie in with the verses you've shown.
By the way, it hasn't passed me that you've not answered to my original question of you concerning a previous statement. But the only answer possible was that you had erred and we all know how difficult those at Bellevue have to admit error. Hmmmm.....
truth rules wrote:
"Not that I've given your voice any credibility before but now it's down to zero."
You apparently don't give any of our voices any credibility. Why then are you here?
TR: If we are not credible, why are you wasting a beautiful day blogging with those who have no credibility?
truth rules
"Not that I've given your voice any credibility before but now it's down to zero."
Who in the world are you? You give my voice credibility. Isn't that arrogant? Self-determination!
God alone gives me credibility!
concernedsbcer, you do know that my reference was to the Apostle Paul. If you did, then I don't get your point. Secondly, the fact one would be battling a minister or any fleshly man is not what the Bible calls us to battle. Please read what the Apostle Paul wrote.
PUT ON THE WHOLE ARMOUR OF GOD, THAT YE MAY BE ABLE TO STAND AGAINST THE WILES OF THE DEVIL. FOR WE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD (man), BUT AGAINST PRINCIPALITIES, AND POWERS, AGAINST THE RULERS OF THE DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD, AGAINST SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES (and this doesn't reference church leaders) [IN THE HEAVENLIES]."
NASS, I am in the search of truth. And with that thought in my mind, I guess you make a good point.
truth rules wrote:
"NASS, I am in the search of truth. And with that thought in my mind, I guess you make a good point."
Thank you. If you're leaving us, be careful not to let the door hit you on the way out.
"You are very much a Pharisee as I see it so I don't care to respond."
Nice try. But the Pharisees were the 'lawless' ones. They ignored the true scripture implying, do as I say, not as I do. Just like you were doing with the 'judging' scriptures.
I can't be a real Pharisee because I have no position, power or influence which the real Pharisees did... which is why Jesus was so hard on them.
Ws wrote: "There needs to be a lifting of the veil of sympathy for Rogers."
Ws, the man is dead. We cannot go to him with this now can we?
TR: First of all, I'd appreciate it if you didn't "yell" and act in such a condescending manner. I know what the Word says in this passage and I know what it means. You were standing in judgement of Piglet and I questioned that. We are battling for the Truth because now the Truth is being distorted, ignored, and blasphemed by the leadership at BBC. Many of these "mistakes" would have been avoided by a simple application of the 10 Commandments. If the staff felt these were uncharted waters, there is some discripancy here between the Word and knowledge of the Word.
Some of you label us judgmental as if that is a pejorative. Listen to what John MacArthur might say in response. (Very short clip)
Should we judge?
Tomorrow is a big day.
Does anyone else on the blog think there are some trying to divert us from the real issue..Steve Gaines & the "elders"??
It would appear that "truth rules" has taken the reins from "ace", JMO, 4545 and all the others who have come here just to antagonize.
Just wondering.........
How can he be God's man if he's not walking in God's way?
(title as posted on the you-know-what)
One of the goofy comments from the pro-Steve petition says, "I strongly believe that God is not glorified by strife. If each person would concentrate on their own walk with the Lord and not others then we would be bringing our church family together rather than apart."
There are times when strife is called for and the last eighteen months at Bellevue have been such a time.
Calling out false teachers
They fought a war over doctrine
All this talk about peacemaking and division requires a stroll back in time to see what the great peacemakers ( ahem ) from our past said. Buckle your seat belt.
The resistors are speaking ther same TRUTH our pre-purpose driven forefathers did.
Famous Quotes on Unity
Folks, those petition comments are littered with poor theology. I am embarrassed our church is led by many of the signers. No wonder we are in such trouble.
Is anyone planning to make a motion to affirm Steve Gaines as pastor?
This may be the last chance for a year.
In case the link to Unity quotes doesnt work here is the URL
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Quotes/qunity.htm
concernedsbcer, my intent wasn't to yell...the source I copied that Scripture had it in all caps. As for as being condescending to you, I apologize.
TR: Apology accepted.
Don,
Your link is inop.
Proverbs: I noticed that as well. The milk is already paying dividends.
prov 12:22, I noticed that statement about God not being glorified by strife too.
My thought when I read that was that God is not glorified by sin either.
Nor is God glorified when we turn our heads and pretend like sin is not "in the camp" as it were.
Here is the link to the UNITY QUOTES
What Our Christian Forefathers Declared regarding UNITY
Someone mentioned irreverence in the service at Faith Baptist last week. What a sad trend. Maybe everyone should listen to this:
God is not our buddy
In Donna Gaines' teaching she repeatedly references the Holy Spirit. She and her hubby seem to believe the Holy Spirit speaks to them almost audibly (she has mentioned this more than once). I suggest she get her theology from the Bible and not pentecostal television programs or wherever she gets her charismatic ideas.
God can certainly speak any way he wants to, but her flippant references to the Spirit speaking to her border on blasphemy. When we attribute words to God that are not His, we are taking His name in vain, so this is not a small matter. We know what God believes about taking His name in vain.
Wake up Bellevue women. Pay attention to what we are being taught by this lady. She is nice and sweet, but her theolgy is all wrong. Examine all things by the Word. When we pay attention to what we are being taught, much of it is lacking.
God is not our buddy
True versus FALSE Unity
By Pastor Bob Dewaay
Twin City Fellowship Church
Minnesota
and author of REDEFINING CHRISTIANITY...AN EXPOSE OF RICK WARRENS MESSAGE
Be Not Deceived
With all this " private revelations and personal Words from God talk goin on...
This is an excellent time for Pastor Bob Dewaays newest article exposing the dangers of such ideas,,,,and how people can become false prophets to themselves and others by suggesting such are from GOD
Dont miss this piece linked below:
THE DANGERS OF PERSONAL WORDS FRM GOD..BECOMING FALSE PROPHETS TO OURSELVES
In my opinion...irreverence is a trend in all walks of life now. As stated before, there is no FEAR of God. Those that fear Him, revere Him.
Ok...I must have missed something last Sunday as I was home working on a paper for school.
What exactly happened at Faith Baptist Sunday that was irreverent?
And BTW, the guy preaching last week was a guest speaker, not the actual pastor.
How could a man have Astrological signs on his profile for so long and then come onto a blog claiming to speak forth personal revelation from God? How could he not know not know it was due to including his birthday in his profile and this not be revelaed to him immediately by the spirit within him? How could he let it continue in his profile even after others have pointed out his error and the cause of it?
Was the Holy Spirit aware of this? Did He try to do anything to put a stop to this? Did He put a stirring into this man's spirit that something was not right?
Where was this man's discernment and spiritual eyesight during all this time?
At 1:01 PM, March 24, 2007
New BBC Open Forum said...
Can someone explain #367 you-know-where to me -- perhaps in just 2-3 short sentences?
NASS,
I wondered about it too. I had to read it a few times, but here is my "Cliff Notes" version: "Satan comes before God with lies, accusations, and slander about believers. When we slander other believers we are sinning just like Satan. God takes this sin seriously and will judge it. Judgement begins with God's people."
Now, what he was getting at with all that--your guess is as good as any.
iwtk,
What questions still remain that need to be answered? Has the IDC put that together?
All the same unanswered questions would remain.
If someone does make a motion to fire Steve Gaines, which hopefully won't happen, and it is seconded, he will need to leave the room while the motion is debated and vored on per RRoO.
I don't know anyone on IDC personally, but I think to most people it is obvious, even after all that's gone on, Steve Gaines is at BBC to stay. Hopefully though some motions will get passed so some transparency and accountability can be set in place.
"In Donna Gaines' teaching she repeatedly references the Holy Spirit. She and her hubby seem to believe the Holy Spirit speaks to them almost audibly (she has mentioned this more than once). "
I noticed this too when I watched some of her teaching. I started thinking she was somewhat 'word faith' by what I heard.
(One would think the Holy Spirit would have spoken the verses in Titus and 1 Corinthians to them at some point during the PW fiasco!!)
IMHO...it's not just no answers, or not liking the answers that are being given, it's also that there seems to be no evidence of repentence for incidents that have taken place, and no changes in the way people are being treated and the church is being run. DC has tried on a superficial level but main issues haven't been addressed.
IWTK said...
(A) So all the communication has not yielded answers to the questions, or (B) no one likes the answers they heard. Big diff
REPLY: The answer is (A).
Just to add on to what Charlie said,
Communication is just talk. Its meaningless unless there is sincerity behind it and actions taken that back that up. If its not backed up with action, then its completely meaningless.
iwtk: I have not seen/heard of leadership showing a repentent spirit....case in point: the incident with the 15 year old 2 weeks ago.
IWTK said...
Charile: Help me understand. What are the questions? I am not in the loop
REPLY:
It is obvious that you are not in the loop.
"As far as repentance goes, I have personally seen our key lay leadership being drawn to their knees. They pray every Tuesday evening in the Worship Center."
I do not understand how that is 'repentance' in this situation
someone posted:
"In Donna Gaines' teaching she repeatedly references the Holy Spirit. She and her hubby seem to believe the Holy Spirit speaks to them almost audibly (she has mentioned this more than once
SOTL says:
Naw, I think that she just hears voices.
I think I have asked this question before, but I would like for somebody to answer it. Has Bellevue gone through Henry Blackaby's "Experiencing God"? And when? Anything else done in addition to Experiencing God?
Ima: Don't know about BBC, but in my church split, we also did "The Mind of Christ" but to be honest I don't remember it very well. (We did also do Experiencing God)
Ima: Sorry...that was awkward phrasing...We also did Experiencing God.
Speaking of Awkard Phrasing, doesn't this give English Teachers nightmares?
" * Any other business properly the subject of consideration by the congregation may be brought forward at this meeting"
I can't read it right cause its so jumbled up!
BBC did the Experience God study during the time of Dr. Rogers. My recall which isn't great would be about 8 years ago. The only two specific books that I recall our church doing a series of studies were 'Experiencing God' and 'Purpose Driven Life'. Individual classes may have done studies on their own but the two above are the only ones I recall doing church-wide.
In Donna Gaines' teaching she repeatedly references the Holy Spirit. She and her hubby seem to believe the Holy Spirit speaks to them almost audibly (she has mentioned this more than once). I suggest she get her theology from the Bible and not pentecostal television programs or wherever she gets her charismatic ideas.
I don't know either, but it's been obvious since they came that there's a definite charismatic bent with them.
Watching History said
Actually Satan is great but not omni-present, powerful nor knowledgeable. He has bigger fish to fry than Bellevue or American Churches. American doesn't even rate a place in end-times prophecy.
Piglet says:
I'm aware that Satan is not omni-present. And I've discussed the apparent and disturbing lack of mention in the scripture about America in the end times.
But I'm not sure what you mean about "bigger fish". Seems to me that destroying the church and deceiving christians all over the world (as well as the lost) is a pretty big fish.:)
truth rules said
piglet, then forgive me if I've misjudged your approach. I wasn't aware that you were using the Word of God, the Holy Spirit and prayer to battle this evil. Seems to me that you've been attacking fleshly men rather than satan. I don't think blogging against Christ's church and ministers of the Gospel is what Paul had in mind. And speaking of Paul, his past probably would have prevented many of you from associating with him.
Piglet says:
I detect sarcasm so I doubt you are asking forgiveness, but I have been in earnest prayer over this situation at church, and knowledge of the scripture has more valuable to me than ever.
We here in blogland will point out the evil and cry out for it to be dealt with lest we share the responsibility for it's damage and answer to God for it one day as you will.
"And speaking of Paul, his past probably would have prevented many of you from associating with him."
Are you serious? My past is worse than Pauls. Associate with him? I would not be worthy to carry his cloak.
junk99mail said...
How could a man have Astrological signs on his profile for so long and then come onto a blog claiming to speak forth personal revelation from God? How could he not know not know it was due to including his birthday in his profile and this not be revelaed to him immediately by the spirit within him? How could he let it continue in his profile even after others have pointed out his error and the cause of it?
Was the Holy Spirit aware of this? Did He try to do anything to put a stop to this? Did He put a stirring into this man's spirit that something was not right?
Where was this man's discernment and spiritual eyesight during all this time?
8:09 PM, March 24, 2007
This is just plain Un Christ like behavior. You don't have to agree with the man's opinions/conclusions (I do not), but you do have to treat him in a "respectful, Christian manner" (see the front page of this blog, or perhaps your Bible to see how we are to treat others). For any of you--you think you can call people names (Belleview Mafia, Goons, Moonbats, etc.) and God is pleased? You can state your case and stand for your convictions without name calling and resorting to sarcasm and biting language all the time.
truth rules said
concernedsbcer, you do know that my reference was to the Apostle Paul. If you did, then I don't get your point. Secondly, the fact one would be battling a minister or any fleshly man is not what the Bible calls us to battle. Please read what the Apostle Paul wrote.
Piglet says:
Boy, are you Donna Gaines? Wouldn't it be just peachy if we all just stayed at home praying and ignoring what God has already told us to do? Nathan should have prayed for David instead of confronting him? The gall of Nathan!
According to you, if your child lies - you just pray for him. PW should still be on staff but we should all PRAY for him. Set all the prisoners in the prisons free and just PRAY for them.
Do you even think this stuff through?
Let's call the boys in Iraq home and pray for the terrorists to go away????
In looking at the first hundred or so names on the petition, it occured to me that many many of them are bbc staff.
Hmmmm Wonder why that is?
itwk said
concernedSBCer: the way the church is run? I have been at Bellevue for 14 years and this is the first Business Meeting I have ever seen. We have had more transparency in the financials than ever. These are positive steps and I wish that would be acknowledged.
Piglet says:
I think IDC has acknowledged that it is positive but they are still sidestepping opening the books because they know they would be busted. And the budget is a guideline - the proof is in the receipts at the end of the year. I gather that we can ASK about that but they don't plan on EVER letting us look - just trust them. (Piglet rolling eyes)
I trust the leadership at Bellevue as much as I do a politician...no wait....I trust a politician more than I do Bellevue's current leadership.
BTW, what happened at Faith Baptist sunday that was irreverent?
Concerned.
you have mail. :)
The pure HATE on this board is unreal. I wonder if many of you will speak your true hate and disrepect tomorrow. I pray you do not let your true colors we see on this blog shine tomorrow in the business meeting.
You get on here and point fingers and direspect ANYONE you can at any chance you get and you have the nerve to claim you do it in Christ's name. How SICK.
MusicGuy,
That was not my intent. I think perhaps you missed some things along the way and you misjudged, but that doesn't matter. You may be right, but I believe sarcasm and biting language can have a place in making a point. But not everyone appreciates that, so I apologize for any offense.
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