This topic isn't about Steve Gaines. It's about a dear Sister and an event that, if you've been reading the last couple of threads, you already know about. Charles and Pam Gremillion wrote a letter to all the deacons on October 9th which you can read here.
Eight of the responses they received are here.
Needless to say, the Gremillions were troubled by some of the responses they received.
On November 18th Mrs. Gremillion phoned the church office to speak with a minister about some of the concerns she still had. Doyal Long, Minister of Biblical Guidance/Pastoral Care, was the minister who took her call. This is Mrs. Gremillion's account of their conversation.
Is this really conduct becoming a minister?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
69 comments:
After reading many of Pam's posts on here and this most recent experience I tend to think she is in definite need of some good Christian counseling. She needs to stay off of her computer and quit sending emails and immersing herself into these problems. I'll be praying that she finds a good, qualified Christian counselor real soon.
RM
Trolling again or looking for ideas to use to attack SBC ??
I see you brought a fishing buddy with you.
Hey why do you constantly attack ths SBC ?? I don't see any mention of Baptist on your web page could it be that YOU have a problem with submiting to the authority of the SBC?????
dontbeatthesheepsaid--
"authority of the SBC"
I should have said oversight as we see from your web site YOU HAVE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY in your own personal church. No wonder you feel such a close kinship to SG
psmpastor,
You seem to have missed the point. What about the behavior of the minister, or did you not have any problem with that? This wasn't meant to be a "bash Doyal Long" party (although I'll shed some light on that in a later comment) nor was it intended to be a "bash Pam Gremillion" fest, but a discussion of how ministers in general should treat the members of their congregations. Is this an example of the way a minister should behave toward one of the flock? Would you ever speak to one of your own that way?
rm,
What can I say? I see you're just being yourself. I'll ask you the same question (although I think I already know the answer). Would you ever speak to one of your own that way?
NASS
Its always fun to see you guys. I can count on you to react the same way every time. I do however enjoy "trolling" your site as you call it. It gives me a lot of material for my sermons.
Besides your quick attacks on me, the truth still remains that Pam needs a counselor. Maybe you should consider helping her find one.
I have to run to Walmart so I'll miss all your upcoming degrading comments. I should return soon though and will catch up.
By the way "open forum" I would never speak to one of my own or anyone else for that matter like Pam says she was spoken to. But then we have to discern if that is what really happened. Your blog isn't exactly noted for its truthfulness and accuracy.
rm said...
"Your blog isn't exactly noted for its truthfulness and accuracy."
8:56 AM, November 21, 2006
Define "truth" as you see it????
rm wrote:
"By the way "open forum" I would never speak to one of my own or anyone else for that matter like Pam says she was spoken to. But then we have to discern if that is what really happened. Your blog isn't exactly noted for its truthfulness and accuracy."
I'm heartened to hear that and appreciate seeing you answer the question! I guess that means you must hold it in and let it all out when you blog.
However, I have no reason to not believe Mrs. Gremillion. She's proven herself so far to be a woman of character and not prone to distorting the truth.
Your last sentence is your unfounded opinion which as far as I'm concerned, you're entitled to. Some of us have been told that we're not entitled to our opinions, but I would never tell someone that. Not being a member of Bellevue or even in an adjacent state, what could you possibly know about the truth as it applies here? For that matter, why do you even care? Do you not have better things to do (like going to Wal-Mart) than to waste your time rolling around with the swine here? If I may alter and coin a popular phrase, if the "troll" fits.... Or if that wasn't clear enough, and at the risk of getting too personal, another... "Here, let me hold up this mirror."
NASS
Moses lost his job when he had to run from Egypt (due to his own behavior)
The Lord eventually gave him another job as Deliver... of course he did have to spend a lot of time in the desert first.
What about Joseph? Paul? Peter? What about Elijah and Elisha? Who fed them?
Either we believe that the Lord will provide our daily bread or we don't.
It doesn't seem beneficial to continue discussing Doyal Long's actions. However, if noone spoke about the actions of staff members, then those who have been treated in a similar manner would believe they were the only one who experienced that trauma.
I have a Wonderful Counselor and a Prince of Peace
bell22 said...
we all knew the deacons were not going to be down front Sunday,why call him on this,why bait him?
REPLY;
Bell you don`t know who knew what unless you have talked to everyone.
You seem to assume that everyone knows what you knew or reads what you read, so please don`t make a statement like that when it is clearly not the truth as everyone does not know everything just because you say so.
With that now being established you are making an accusation of baiting????? and you are hinting that a lie has been told about Minister Long.
You clearly want to defend Minister Long because of your relationship with him, but is that any reason to even hint that someone is a liar and make an accusation that a person was baiting the minister?
Absolutely not!
I think what you have done here is kin to trying to kill the messenger.
Stick to the truth and stop assigning your own thoughts and feelings as truth.
Minister Long may be called a fine minister but that does negate his actions on the day in question.
Jim Jones was said to tbe a fine minister by those who followed him.
Haggard was lauded as one of America`s premium minister.
What does all that mean now?
Good men can do some bad things and no one is above falling into sin.
The Lord has made a way for sin to be forgiven but fist sin has to be admitted.
This seems to be an ongoing problem for some of the ministers and staff at Bellevue.
I am offended when I read messages from ministers who obviously want to pour more pain on a person like they need to be counseled for sharing their own personal experience on this blog. With that way of thinking, he and everyone else who shares a personal experience
on the blog, need to be counseled.
What amazing logic from a pastor who blogs and blogs negatively about those who blog, and make sure that others come to read the blogs that he is so against.
I suggest that rm needs some help and fast.
Get off the blog pastor and go help someone in your own flock who probably needs you more than we do but first please consider finding someone who can help you to be a more caring and loving pastor.
I am offended that you seek sermon material by preying on those who write here.
Good sermon fodder for you today?
Title your next sermon:
How GOD views pastors who beat sheep who blog while they blog and point others to read the blogs they blog about being against from the the church`s.
You can just shorted the sermon title to:
Confusion Preaching Confusion.
bell22 said.....The point is Why did she make the call?
HERE is my suggestion to you bell. Get off the computer and go call her and ask her instead of going on and on and on with what you think! Wouldn`t that be the Christian thing to do?
TOU might want to also get in touch with MOM4 who just said she has first hand knowledge that this minister plays rough with women.
bell22 said.....
I ask again why was the call made, what did she hope to find out. That is what I want to know.
And AGAIN I suggest you stop taking the lazy way out and go find out for yourself.
Stop accusing and belittling someone for sharing their personal experience, it is making you look a lot like the company you keep aka minister Long.
Tim, the saddest side of this is that this minister is sent out to comfort those who are hurting! Not that every minister isn`t.
This is so shameful and just adds another black spot to Bellevue.
More evidence that there needs to be a good house cleaning!
Mom4
Your post is really confirming.
When will Bellevue become the loving church she once was?
I love Brother Long and I believe he is a godly man. However, he is known to be a difficult man to work for by the staff at Bellevue. Through the years ladies have come to me to discuss issues with Brother Long, so Sister Pam's report came as no shock to me. He has a grandfatherly persona. He also has another side (as we all do).
Instead of bashing Sister Pam, talk to the ladies who have worked for him in the past and you will learn a lot.
It is a sad day when you can't go to any minister on staff of a church that you love so and expect nothing but a kind word and a heartfelt prayer. I am sick over what's happened to Pam Gremmillion. She is not a rabble rowzer (my new fave phrase) and she doesn't want to stir things up. She's received more than her share of abuse from deacons and staff members.
Regardless of how bad a day they are having, whether or not they agree with the person they are speaking with or they are scared of losing their job, there is NO EXCUSE EVER for a minister of the gospel to speak to a member of their church in any manner other than with the love of Jesus. If they can't do that, they need to move on!
Karen
I love my church said...
I love Brother Long and I believe he is a godly man. However, he is known to be a difficult man to work for on staff at Bellevue.
Hmmm, More confirmation.
I think the LORD is revealing that the heart of Bellevue is about to have a heart attack if something isn`t done and fast.
Amen to Karen`s post but sadly I suspect that Karen, Mom4, and I love my church will now be the next ones suggested to be in need of couseling.
Is this a sad comentary on Bellevue or what?
blessmewiththetruth,
"I think the LORD is revealing that the heart of Bellevue is about to have a heart attack if something isn`t done and fast."
About to? I think we are writhing in the floor already.
We need a heaven sent revival. It will start with the truth.
Let me begin by saying that I don't know Doyal Long other than when I see him. He's always looked like a big, gentle, grandfatherly type to me, but one can't go just by looks. So I went to sources who should know. He was described to me as someone who has great compassion for the sick, so he's a good fit for a care role in that capacity.
However, he was also described as someone who has "talked down" to people in the past, especially to women. He has reportedly been "called on the carpet" for this on more than one occasion. His reputation is that he can be difficult to work for if you're a woman. So this may shed some light on why Mrs. Gremillion was treated so poorly. Perhaps if Mr. Gremillion had done the calling.... But this should not be necessary. Any member of the flock should be able to speak candidly with a member of the staff or a deacon without being yelled at. (And I don't want to debate the meaning of "yell" either.)
I don't think anyone's advocating Mr. Long be fired. A written and verbal apology to Mrs. Gremillion would go a long way towards restoring some confidence in our leadership. They're fast losing it!
NASS
If we are in the middle of cardiac arrest then this blog would be the 911 WAKE UP CALL for the church!
Bless me <-love that blogger name!,
I'm not gonna suggest anything - I'm not qualified to suggest anyone go to counseling or get squirted with holy water or get fired. I don't know what happened between Doyal Long and Pam Gremmillion. What I do know is Pam Gremmillion is no liar, so do with that what you will.
Karen
NASS your post is also confirming.
My question is what action has been taken about this in the past.
I know you said minister Long has been confirmed to be a mininter that has "talked down" to people in the past, especially to women and that minister Long has reportedly been "called on the carpet" for this on more than one occasion and that minister Long`s reputation is that he can be difficult to work for if you're a woman BUT has he ever admitted that he has done these things, has he apologized in the past for this?
Are there some unresolved offenses created by Doyal Long?
If there are, then I believe every person who has ever been treated this way should recieve an apology so that every offense can be swept out the door instead of just being swept under the rug where all the dirt just piles up until someone trips over it and gets hurt again.
This seems to be a ongoing pattern at Bellevue that needs to be changed before the heart attack becomes fatal.
By the way....
Have you ever seen a cartoon where one of the characters swepts the dirt under the rug?
Some things I have observed from one of these cartoons.
It usually starts off by someone pointing out the house needs a cleaning because company`s on the way.
Here is what happens next:
First comes a big sigh because they don`t want to sweep the floor ( They really don`t mind the dirt themselves)
Then they begrudingly get out a broom and start to hit at the dirt
They are far too lazy to sweep it all up the right way so they pick up one end of the rug and start to sweep in under there because they are content to HIDE IT instead of get rid of it!
Then they smile because they aer satisified with less than a clean house and have worked their way into believeing the house is clean...ENOUGH for company s
Then another character comes in and accidently trips over the hump in the rug created by the dirt that has been hidden there.
Then the person who trips over the hump, goes staggering across the room, hits their head,falls down, breaks their arm and leg and ends up in the hospital.
I wonder if there is something spiritual we can reap from this.
I think we are all in the Bellevue hospital right now in need of tender loving care and all the Bellevue hospital staff has taken leave.
We are calling 911 from our own hospital beds!
blessmewiththetruth wrote:
"I know you said minister Long has been confirmed to be a mininter that has "talked down" to people in the past, especially to women and that minister Long has reportedly been "called on the carpet" for this on more than one occasion and that minister Long`s reputation is that he can be difficult to work for if you're a woman BUT has he ever admitted that he has done these things, has he apologized in the past for this?"
I was not privy to the details of what may or may not have happened before. That would be a question for someone who was closer to the situations than I.
NASS
To whom it may concern,
karen wrote:
Regardless of how bad a day they are having, whether or not they agree with the person they are speaking with or they are scared of losing their job, there is NO EXCUSE EVER for a minister of the gospel to speak to a member of their church in any manner other than with the love of Jesus. If they can't do that, they need to move on!
These words are quite true, but I'd also say that a minister who misbehaves in this alleged way should not be allowed to move on to another place to minister.
I've never met sister Pam, although I've known brother Doyle for years. He has ministered to me during times of illness and sorrow. I've never heard him shout, and I've never seen him lose control. I've always known him to be a godly, gentle man. He has my utmost respect, and I'd like to see his name cleared.
God's Word gives us very clear guidance in this situation:
Deuteronomy 19:15
"A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed."
John 5:31 (Jesus speaking)
"If I alone testify about Myself, My testimony is not true."
If our Lord and Savior Himself said that He needed testimony other than His own, then I think it's unquestionably clear that at least one more person must come forward and give testimony against brother Doyle before we can start demanding his head on a platter. The testimony should be every bit as specific as sister Pam's, and attached to a real name, not an alias.
In the meantime, God's Word also says "Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses." (2 Timothy 5:19)
Investigate the charge, but don't accept it until it has been established by multiple witnesses. The very act of accepting it as truth before firmly established is an act of disobedience. (God's words, not mine.) If minister Long truly behaves in this way, there should be no shortage of witnesses to verify it.
All truth is God's truth, it will come to light in His time.
My apologies for mislabeling the scriptures - I wrote 2 Timothy 5:19, when I meant 1 Timothy 5:19.
I don't think my interpretation is wrong, and I don't think I misread anything (my eyes aren't that far gone just yet).
Can you futher explain your thoughts about Matthew 18 before I answer? I don't think I've heard your line of reasoning before. How would you make sure your witnesses are unbiased? How is what you're describing different than judging?
Thank you.
how about just conduct becoming of a Christian!
mom4,
Name me something on my blog that isn't true and accurate. You see, unlike most of you, I only write about that which I see with my own eyes, hear with my own ears, or speak with my own lips. I also have the decency to sign my real name.
I've been gone for a few hours but its so refreshing to see you guys trying to devour yet another minister. The sad thing is that he seems like one of the best at Bellevue. Shame on you.
rm
Do you require belivers baptism as a requirement for membership to your church?????
dontbeathesheep,
Yes, we do require believer's baptism for church membership.
choice is yours,
Sorry to disppoint you but all is well here in Texas. Come by and visit sometime so you can see for yourself.
I'm gone until next Monday so any of your degrading comments won't even reach me so hopefully you can turn your comments on someone else.
I do feel sorry for the latest Bellevue minister to incur your wrath.
Have a good Thanksgiving one and all.
rm
I ask this because on your church web page under steps for membership there is no mention of baptism as a membership requirement why is this??
A little dishonest isn't?When do you tell them after they are HOOKED??
also, I see on your resume that you have graduated from Baptist instutions.Why did you leave the Baptist Fellowship?
Guess I willgo back to that web page of yours to see if you are a PDC that woud explain asome things to us.
choice,
It's always a joy to search God's word, and I learn much by hearing different interpretations from fellow Christians. God shows me things, He shows you things, He shows other people things, and we need to share what He shows us with each other.
I think you and I will have a hard time completely agreeing because of the different ways we interpret God's Word. I tend toward a "dispensational" method of interpretation, which is a fancy way of saying that (among other things) I try to interpret as literally as I can.
I think our differences about Matthew 18 are due to our definition of what a witness is. I believe a "witness" is normally someone who has already seen something, not a spectator of a future event. (I'm not sure if the Greek word allows the future usage, which is why I'm curious as to your interpretation.)
I'd be less inclined (but open) to accept that the brother who was wronged should take two Christians in the sense of Acts 1:8, where Jesus told the 11 disciples that they would be His "witnesses" to the ends of the earth. (This would be the kind of gathering in which Jesus is in the midst. Perhaps His presence would give the offended person the wisdom to bring the offender to repentance.)
I'm not sure about taking along others to observe the reaction of the offender to discern guilt. I've honestly never heard that before. I'll have to research your interpretation before I can offer a fair opinion without the risk of doing injustice to God's Word. To me, it sounds a lot like what the Judges did in the OT.
I don't see any room for discussion of 1 Timothy 5:19, which comes from Deuteronomy 19:15. The passage could be translated to not listen to testimony even if it's spoken in a courtroom unless there are two witnesses. You'll have to establish your definition of a witness before I'll change my mind. This is why I still maintain that someone else must come forward to speak against brother Doyle before any action should be considered.
As for the candy bar, Jesus said that if someone takes your cloak, to give him your tunic also. If someone forces you to go one mile, go two instead.
It doesn't make much worldly sense, but if someone stole a candy bar we ought to give him a coke, too. If we saw him at church the next week, we should ask if he enjoyed it. If that doesn't lead him to repentance, I'm confident that God will take care of him, either by conviction of the Spirit if he's a Christian, or by exposure of his true nature in front of others.
Romans 12:19 says to leave room for God's wrath, and I'd rather that rascal get his punishment from God than me. (I might secretly hope that the coke and candy gave him a few cavities, though.)
Your thoughts?
jcsuitt '
Sister Pam Gives her real name , why are you hiding , sounds like you have no courage and maybe you are a bit unstable
Wayne
jcsuitt said...
Have you reread your words?
What a slap in the face you offer to someone you pretend to be worried about!
You must be related to the good minister Doyal Long or one of the yes men or the pastor at Bellevue to exibit such hateful words.
If you meant one word of what you write, you would delete yout post completly.
Even medical doctors would tread the waters you are trending by diagnoising a person they have never talked to or seen.
WOW you are one IGNORANT person and if we only knew who you were, I think we could trace you all the way back to those who are guilty of High Treason at Bellevue.
My message should have said
EVEN DOCTORS WOULD NOT TREAD THE WATER TOU ARE TREADING
Reading the hate mail I was reminded of how Jesus` was called insane.
Mark 3 KJV
13 He went up into the mountain, and called to himself those whom he wanted, and they went to him.
14 He appointed twelve, that they might be with him, and that he might send them out to preach,
15 and to have authority to heal sicknesses and to cast out demons:
16 Simon, to whom he gave the name Peter;
17 James the son of Zebedee; John, the brother of James, and he surnamed them Boanerges, which means, Sons of Thunder;
18 Andrew; Philip; Bartholomew; Matthew; Thomas; James, the son of Alphaeus; Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot;
19 and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. He came into a house.
20 The multitude came together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread.
21 When his friends heard it, they went out to seize him: for they said, "HE IS INSANE."
MOM4 said...
rm said...
"Your blog isn't exactly noted for its truthfulness and accuracy."
8:56 AM, November 21, 2006
MOM4 said...
Define "truth" as you see it????
9:08 AM, November 21, 2006
RM said...
mom4,
Name me something on my blog that isn't true and accurate. You see, unlike most of you, I only write about that which I see with my own eyes, hear with my own ears, or speak with my own lips. I also have the decency to sign my real name."
Well sir, I had asked you to define the truth as you saw it, so you are telling us that everything you say is the truth, yet you have the audacity to tell us that we are ALL liars just because you don't believe us - who are YOU anyway????? For all I know about you, you could be another David Koresh or Ted Haggart - and I really don't care who you are and I really don't care if you believe me or not. My self esteem is not based on what you or others think of me, but in Christ Alone! Shame on you for being so ugly.
I will say I have written nothing here that I do not have first hand knowledge via personal experience or it is something that I have been a witness to via someone elses first hand knowledge - the fact that I do not post my real name is because I am not in a position to do so, however, there are those who know perfectly well who I am. I do not intend to reveal personal information until the timing is appropriate. I may however, find the time to troll on by your space and procede to discribe to your flock just how nosey and arbitrary you have become here. But, then again, I have a life and my goal on this blog is to further the truth at BBC and I have the decency NOT interfere in your church's affairs.
Perhaps you should begin your own heart check before trolling on someone elses space.
We are a hurting people, we do not need someone interfereing who has no clue what is happening here.
I've never known the Baptist church to be very receptive to anything a woman has to say.
mom4,
You can be one ominous sheep. I would expect that the 4 at the end of the name is the number of kids and I bet they keep them selfs in line pretty good.
Kudos to you. I couldn't have said any better.
Martin Luther refers to Matthew 18
Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation
(1520)
The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.
First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.
Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.
Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...
Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.
.... The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . . If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.
Why, Thank you Tim,
I did not write the post for kudos, but I appreciate them just the same. And yes, the 4 is for THE FOUR and they are the reason I am in this fight. They are worth every second and every penny that I put into them and while they do go "off line" at times, as we all are prone to do, they know that this praying mother bear will die for them (and so will papa bear - he's around here too:)).
tim,
Thanks for pitching in. I hope we can keep the discussion going.
There are a couple of really good sources and some pretty hefty Bible scholars that are in agreement with choice on this one.
I'm not one of them. :-)
I'm not a Wesleyan, but John supports my belief in this case - "Take with thee one or two more — Men whom he esteems or loves, who may then confirm and enforce what thou sayest;"
If you're interested in languages, the Greek word is "martus" (Strong number 3144). Translated, it means one who can testify to the truth of what he has seen, heard, or knows. (It can also translate 'martyr', but that's not the context here.)
I still maintain my interpretation of what God's Word says, that the testimony must be established by multiple witnesses.
choice,
Why do you say I'm giving open season to sin? Which pages in the Bible have I missed?
Was it the page that says "The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."?
Was it the page that says "I am still confident of this: I will see the goodness of the LORD in the land of the living. Wait for the LORD; be strong and take heart and wait for the LORD."?
You're probably too young to remember R.G. Lee's "Payday Someday" sermon. In it, he reminded us that God's vengeance has heels and moves slowly but has iron soles and crushes completely. God doesn't need our help to punish sin. He doesn't want it, either.
I'm not casting judgement on anyone at BBC or on this blog when I say this, but God *WILL NOT* leave the guilty unpunished. Ahab and Jezebel thought they had gotten away with killing Naboth, but they did not. David thought he had pulled off his adultery with Bathsheba, but he didn't. "Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything in uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account."
choice said:
Did Jesus really say, "if someone takes your cloak, to give him your tunic also. If someone forces you to go one mile, go two instead."
..."and if your neighbor shoots you in the leg, roll over so that he can aim clearly at the other one."
I hate to use such an extreme example, but I told you that was exactly the follow-up question I would ask.
I don't think Jesus would have called the shooter a neighbor, but considering what He suffered for us, I don't believe that a bullet in the leg doesn't really compares.
25+yrs,
Martin Luther also called the book of James an "epistle of straw" and demanded that it be stricken from the canon.
FYI
I was suprised to find this thread this morning, but really suprised to read the vicious attacks on Pamela's character and meanest of all ,questioning her spiritual and mental health.It is interesting to note that when a person cannot refute you on the facts.They will then use personal attacks.
After 26 years of marrige I know her better than anyone. I am proud of her for taking a stand ,and most importantly seeking the truth, no matter what it cost her and believe me this has cost her dearly.
I am with her every step of the way ,we suffer together, and have cried as one,as we have received mean spirited and yes vicious e-mails and phone calls every since we took a public stand for truth.
God knows our heart and the truth,and that is enough for us.
To those of you who supported Pamela on this thread I want to personally thank you, and we are proud to stand with you in unity. As we work together to return Bellevue Baptist Church to the church it once was.A Christ centered Bible teaching church.
In conclusion I want to share what happened this morning when Pamela found out that her words had been showcased into a new thread without prior knowledge.She looked at me with tears in her eyes and said" pray for me to die to my flesh,so that I can take whatever pain lies ahead from this."When I suggested she contact the moderator to have it removed she said "let the truth stand where it will,the battle belongs to the lord".
I want all of you to know something else about my wife.She is legally blind and crippled in both legs, but I'm proud to say she sees the scriptures clearly and stands strong in the Lord.
A note to RM and psmpastor, and jcsuitt : Pam and I forgive you and we turn the other cheek as our Lord and Savior Jesus has commands us to do.
Charles Gremillion
Mr. and Mrs. Gremillion,
Please know that you are both loved dearly. Thank you for demonstrating your love for our Lord Jesus Christ. I pray that God will give you peace, strength, wisdom and humility.
We are greatly blessed to be your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Rest well beloved,
Andrew
IF A RULER LISTENS TO LIES ALL HIS OFFICALS BECOME WICKED... PROVERBS 29:12
A MAN REMAINS WHO REMAINS STIFF-NECKED AFTER MANY REBUKES WILL SUDDENLY BE DESTROYED-WITHOUT REMEDY.....PROVERBS 29:1
John 20 talks about Thomas the doubter. Do you know what the difference is between being a doubter and a skeptic? Doubt is a resting place, skepticism is a permanent place. I preached at a nursing home for a year before I became a pastor. There are two kinds of people in the nursing home, sweet and skeptical. The sweet people lived a quiet life ( 1 Thess 4:11), loved the Lord and never said an unkind word about anyone, no matter how bad they have been mistreated.
The skeptical people lived lives of constant doubt about everyone and everything. We should all consider others as being more knowledgeable than ourselves (Phil 2:3)
The way a person retires at skepticism is focusing on their doubts too long. Eventually a doubter has to become like James and become a doer.
BBC is not going to have a monthly business meeting for 7000 people, close that doubt. If you try to corner him during church, you are going to affect his ability to deliver the message, which would not be of any benefit to anyone.
It sounds like they have these open door meetings on Sunday morning, but no one cares to attend them. Think about it...what message does tell the rest of the congregation about your efforts and concerns?
If only one person shows up, of course they are going to look like a rebellious person. It appears most people on this blog do not have positions of leadership or authority in their everyday lives so they want to take it out on the church.
Splitting hairs over a dinner meal, give me a break. Was it $39 or $49, who cares! A pastor is not perfect and obviously the some people that post to this blog has never led one single thing in their life, otherwise they would have more empathy for a leader that makes mistakes. Make no bones about it, if a person leads, there will always be those who will not agree. This why there is a leader, someone to lead the charge when there is confusion, and no one knows what direction to take.
A church this size can not be ran by consensus, a member either needs to see what the church is passionate about, and if that churches passion does not line up with theirs they need to find a church who shares their passion.
Some posters of this blog appear to be some overly concerned religious people, using the bible as their sword of choice, yet if they are such tremendous communicators of Gods truth, how come they are not in a teaching capacity and sharing this wonderful insight to a lost and dying world. People outside the church are clawing their way through darkness, trying to make sense of this thing called life.
Honestly, when someone posts a long post filled with scripture, I guarantee 99% of you scroll right past it because there is no dirt to chew on.
Ever heard the expression, can’t see the forest through the trees? It is human nature when we get too close to something we lose focus of the big picture, and our life gets distorted beyond the point of focusing on what is truly important.
If the church is ran by people with character flaws (which I am not saying it is or not) it will eventually blow up and become so easily recognizable for even the most marginal Christian will recognize the flaws. Just like Gamaliel’s advice in Act 5 38-39, if this church is ran by carnal men, nothing great will come of it, and it will become nothing. However, if it is of God, no blog or anyone else can overthrow it.
Get outside and enjoy life, be a blessing to others, share the love of Christ, serve the creator and master of the universe, He died for us, lets go tell the world about this great gift, who knows He might come back tonight.
Let me leave you with this advice, don’t stay in the doubt truck stop very long, the food will get you to the nursing home of skepticism faster than you care to get there.
Thanks for boiling down the conflict at Bellevue to an online sermon about skeptics or doubters. Huh? Sounds like chapter three in Simple Sermons for Simple Minds. We've had enough shallow sermons over the last year, so please keep this blog free from posts that don't make sense.
"If the church is ran by people with character flaws (which I am not saying it is or not) it will eventually blow up and become so easily recognizable for even the most marginal Christian will recognize the flaws. Just like Gamaliel’s advice in Act 5 38-39, if this church is ran by carnal men, nothing great will come of it, and it will become nothing. However, if it is of God, no blog or anyone else can overthrow it."
Not a very good yardstick imho...look at Joel O'Steen, or the boys on TBN..I would dare say these are carnal folks...but they're still drawing the crowds..perhaps one day they will be overthrown..but in the meantime don't we still need to call a spade a spade?
Allofgrace,
"..in the meantime don't we still need to call a spade a spade?"
Good point.
Can you think of any biblical injunction to deny truth or veil sin?
jcsuitt,
These are your own words:
"My feelings were NOT ill willed.
Listen sir I DO NOT intend to say anything that would damage or hurt. I ask forgiveness if this has happened."
In response to your own words, I'd like to say that you sound a lot like pastor Gaines.
Your own words are your worst enemy. I beleive what comes from the mouth originates in your heart.
You are screaming "listen sir I DO NOT" at the top of your lungs down to a Brother in Christ.
The real telling tale of your comments that show your heart is the word "if" in your apology.
Let's see, where have we heard that before. I think we've all heard our pastor say that "if" he offended, he's sorry for it.
I think it really means that I'm sorry I was caught.
Charles and Sister Pam are family and they are hurting. They are wonderful people who love the Lord and seek truth and righteousness. People like that are people who make you uncomfortable. I sure hope you don't treat your blood family this way. If so, I pity them.
Perhaps you should take the advice of pastor Gaines and leave this blog if you don't like it.
We obviously have a huge problem with integrety behind the pulpit and in our upper echelon of leadership, i.e. Harry Smith, Chuck Taylor, Steve Tucker, Jeff Arnold, Mark Dougharty, John Caldwell.
It's already been exposed over and over that the facts that you called lies earlier are being proven to be true one at a time, over and over.
There are many of us out here that at first didn't see what others were saying. As the days roll on and more and more is uncovered, we are faced with making a decision as to what's best for Bellevue Baptist Church. The tide is turning as people learn the truth.
We need a change of leadership starting at the very top. I pray it happens soon before we have to go through any more surprises.
jcsuitt,
You and your friends Ace and hisservent-1 all have the same characteristics.
You mentioned that this blog seems to be a one-sided monster. That sounds familiar as well. Everything thing I've heard from people who have been asking questions for a long time say the concerns fell on deaf ears. They say it was one-sided with the pastor and the men he surrounds himself with. They wouldn't let the concerns be heard before the deacons. They wouldn't let the concerns be heard before the church. They wouldn't answer the concerns. It sounds like mayby if things had been handled properly, we wouldn't be here today.
swtt,
You and your friends Ace and hisservent-1 all have the same characteristics.
And these characteristics are..? I'd like to hear what you have to say about me.
JCSUITT, you are misquoting the Gremillion`s twice in your post to them and then you proceed to make commentary from your own misguided thoughts and untruthful surmizings.
I would suggest that you reread Mrs. Gremillion`s original letter and Mr. Gremillion`s letter. If you can not find where you embellished and added your own thoughts into their words, I feel sorry for you.
Out of respect for the Gremillions, I will not quote any of your posts because you can`t even apologize without including barbs to prick them again.
The IF in your apology is so revealing.
I am always amazed when someone attaches barbs to an apology. Most of the time they do this out of pride, trying to salvage some sense of being right while admitting some portion of being wrong.
What you posted yesterday was insensitive and ugly. If you deleted it, I respect you for that but I do not respect your apology when you repeat in it, some of the very things you apologized for, which counteracts the deletion of the first post and I think it is insulting.
When I couple that with you distorting, embellishing, adding, and surmizing what Mr. and Mrs. Gremillion really said, I am disgusted.
Your commentary on your own surmizings under the disguise of caring is just as disgusting.
This thread was suppose to be about CONDUCT BECOMING A Minister.
Somewhere you have lost your way.
I feel sorry for you.
I would say that you owe them another apology but I am afraid you just don`t don`t know how to do it without throwing more insults their way.
Please leave the Gremillion`s alone, DOCTOR JCSUITT.
ace,
I tell you what we are going to do. I'll meet you under the chandelier Sunday at 9:30. You bring yourself, hisservent-1, and
jcsuitt and we'll see exactly how many characteristics the three of you have in common.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
I can't stop laughing.
WTB,
"Can you think of any biblical injunction to deny truth or veil sin?"
Not in the Bible I read...but I guess if we search the PurposeDriven/ExperiencingGod/PrayerofJabez/WWJD/"The Message" version, we could find one. IMHO.
swtt: so you are claiming we are all the aame person? and we are also claiming that we wanted to have to change our names?
you know, we did have to change our names more than once because of those "good people" you talk about signing up as us and trying to deceive and confuse. I guess we did that to ourselves?
Pastor: please continue to post here. you are a breath of fresh air and you seem to stand firm Word of God. your posts have been right on target
LibertyinChrist: you post truly saddens me. as with many others, everything seems to be about you and what you "think" and not about Christ. your posts and your thoughts are full of self and flesh.
Rick Warren connection?? I would love fo you to post your info on this again, I for one would love to see it?
national Christian radio programs?? so you are going to now take this there? what issues will you discuss and when?
HisServant-1 said...
swtt: so you are claiming we are all the aame person? and we are also claiming that we wanted to have to change our names?
you know, we did have to change our names more than once because of those "good people" you talk about signing up as us and trying to deceive and confuse. I guess we did that to ourselves?
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING AND YOU KNOW IT.
libertyinchrist,
Thank you.
swtt,
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING AND YOU KNOW IT.
Chill out, dude. You have made the accusation, now it's time for an apology to follow. I'll be waiting.
If you are ashamed to publicly post that you were wrong like most people here are, feel free to send me a private message. acefromthebbcforum@yahoo.com - Don't worry, it'll be our little secret.
just making sure that is what you meant.
That is a lie!!!
and just for fun, can you please explain why we would won't to bring confusion to OUR OWN posts? let's use some common sense. would one not want to post as someone else on the "other side" if they were trying to deceive?
Sister Pam,
I am so very encouraged that someone on staff at our church has the Christlike love that God intended our shepherds to have. I am deleting all my posts as you requested and I want to commend Pastor Long for his love and concern. This is why the Lord placed him in the pastoral care ministry, because he does truly indeed care about the flock. Finally, an HONEST MAN!
Thank you!
In spite of Sister Pam's request that you delete your comments from this thread, I'd like to respectfully request that you leave them for now. Pending permission from Pam, I'd like to start a new topic tonight and the contents of this thread are needed so that it will be in the proper context.
Thank you,
NBBCOF
NBBCOF,
Can you put an "update" section on the home page of the blog to indicate that reconcilliation has been made?
Sister Pam,
PRAISE THE LORD! I am so glad for you Charles and for Mr. Long. Our God is SOOOOO Good!!!!
Post a Comment