This billboard recently appeared along the south side of I-40 between Whitten Road and Sycamore View. It faces east but doesn't stand very high and is partially buried in a stand of trees behind the Century Center Business Park, so a lot of people probably haven't noticed it.
One might mistakenly conclude from reading this sign that those are the words of Steve Gaines! There is no reference to Scripture at all. No mention of God or Jesus. In fact, the first time I caught a glimpse of it from the interstate, I didn't see the reference to "Bellevue Baptist Church" because "Steve Gaines" is in much larger type.
That "quote" is the first half of I Corinthians 13:4 and the first part of verse 8.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
This is only my opinion, but it just seems that plastering your photo on a billboard while plagiarizing the Apostle Paul tramples all over that "does not boast, is not proud" part. Maybe that's why we don't see the rest of the verse on the billboard. The irony would have been too much.
Notice it's not a regular billboard, rather it looks like a big tarp wrapped around a billboard. It appears it could be taken down and reused. Will it pop up somewhere else next month? Are there more of these around town?
Am I seeing things, or is that Thomas the Tank Engine peeking out from underneath the corner of Brother Steve's photo?
597 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 597 of 597Ox said...."My largest concerns were using sermons for other than reaching the lost and the attitude that overflowed from the ministry staff didn't seem to be from God. Staff I had known for years seemed foreign to me..."
You said it well!!
Why did you wait SO long to post???
Sad to know what happened at BBC is happening in so many other churches...still very foreign to many of us.
How is Alabama??
Memphis' illustrious mayor today had this to say about the search for a school superintendent. "We need a school superintendent that understands the urban environment... uhhh... from a holistic perspective... a person that's uhhh... proven... abilities to be a... a tough manager. See, da school system, while it focuses on academic achievement... it is an important business enterprise... uhhh.... "
Then this:
"Well, let me jus' say dis... uhhh... it... it needs someone... quite frankly... probably with da background... uhhh... the knowledge, the skills, and the toughness... yes."
Reporter: "... that Willie Herenton has."
"Well, there's no doubt about it. I have all those things, but I'm not a candidate."
Which just proves all the college degrees in the world don't necessarily make one "educated."
Nass,
I think that point about education is proven very clearly in people with PHDs from seminaries also...unfortunately.
Well... in some cases, you're correct. Certainly not all though. One thing that struck me about it was the similarity between the attitude of the mayor and SG. Recalling in particular the July 10, 2005 Gardendale "farewell" speech. I watched the entire tape and made these notes:
*** In early December 2004, an article in the Commercial Appeal about the retirement of Dr. Rogers mentioned Steve Gaines as a possible replacement. He claimed this was the first he'd heard that he was being considered for the job. He called the head of the search committee, Chuck Taylor, who told him that out of 170 candidates they'd narrowed the list down to five and that he was on the short list. He said he told Chuck Taylor to just take his name off the list. "Now your list is four," he reportedly said.
*** The following Sunday he told the Gardendale congregation he'd told Bellevue to remove his name from consideration, that "God wants me to die an old man here in Gardendale," and that he would stand by them in moving to their new property. He said he'd "died to the issue of ever going to Bellevue."
"We did everything we could not to leave."
*** He'd been asked back in the fall of '04, before he asked to be taken off the list, to speak at Dr. Rogers' retirement service on March 4th. Two or three days before, Chuck Taylor called him and asked if he'd be willing to meet with the search committee "since you're going to be here anyway."
Gaines said, "I really don't want to. But we'll talk to you."
He said of that meeting: "The meeting was okay, but it was nothing electric. Donna and I sensed no call whatsoever at that time to talk any further with them."
*** Chuck Taylor called them back for a second meeting, and he said, "Let us pray about it."
*** On Easter, Dr. Gaines called the search committee and related the conversation like this: "I said, 'Look, just take our name off the list.' That was the second time. 'I don't want to fool with it. I really don't want to do this.' In my mind I was saying, 'I wish you'd just go away and let us do what we need to do.' I thought surely that was the end of it."
*** He said pastor friends began calling and encouraging him to "be open" about going to Bellevue. He asked if any of them had spoken with Adrian Rogers, and all said no.
*** While at a meeting in San Diego 7 or 8 more pastor friends came up to him and said, "God told me you should be open about going to Bellevue." All denied talking with Dr. Rogers.
*** While visiting his in-laws in Memphis, he was sitting on the grounds of Bellevue early one morning reading his Bible when he read the passage from the 6th chapter of Judges -- "Go in the strength that you have. Am I not sending you to rescue the Israelites from the Midianites?" He said the Lord told him He wanted him "to finish his ministry in this place."
*** And then there's the famous 3-minute clip. He'd flown to Memphis for "one last meeting" sometime around late May. Here's what he said:
"One thing about Gideon. He put out a fleece. So I put out a fleece. I said, 'Lord, I'm gonna be so hardnosed on this meeting, and I'm gonna tell them everything I don't like about their church, and I'm gonna tick 'em off so bad... heh heh... that they won't want me.' It wasn't exactly like that, but it was close. And I told 'em everything I thought they'd have to change, everything that we do right that they do wrong... I mean that. I came back and told Donna, I said, 'No way on God's green earth they'll want me now.'
"Got a call back, and they said, 'We have one more question we want to ask you, but we want to ask you in person.' I said, 'What are you talking about?' They said, 'Well, we want to ask you to be our pastor.' I said, 'Well, I thought... didn't I tick you guys off?' They said, 'No... in fact two guys were wondering if you were going to be a strong enough leader, and we all figured, he's strong.' Heh heh. So they... what I thought was gonna mess 'em up actually kept the process going."
*** I noticed in a different thread someone commented about Dr. Gaines comparing himself to Moses. In this tape, not only does he compare himself to Moses (not getting to lead the Israelites into the promised land), he compared himself to David not getting to build the temple.
*** He was complimenting his wife on how much time she put into preparing for the Bible studies she led. "If I studied for my sermons like she studies, this church would be running 7000."
*** Then he talked about the "numbers" since he came to Gardendale. "More than 3000 saved and baptized." The budget went from $2 million to $9 million. The church "doubled in size."
So that was the whole tape. Did taking the 3-minute clip out of context make any difference in its significance? In my opinion, no.
A couple of thoughts came to mind though.
1. Although he said he "did everything we could not to leave (Gardendale)," he still hopped on a plane for Memphis when they called him for meetings. I'm not questioning whether he felt called by God to do that. Just that he didn't seem to be doing "everything" not to come here.
2. Did all 170 candidates submit applications and resumes? If the CA article in early December was the first time he'd heard he was being considered for the job, then that implies he didn't apply for it. Again, I'm not saying he's being untruthful. It just seems odd that the search committee could narrow the list down to five when at least one of them didn't even know he was being considered.
What I did see was a man who seemed genuinely sad to be leaving the church and people he'd pastored for 14 years. He seemed much more humble than I've ever seen him here. Maybe it was the lack of a tie. (In the year and a half since I originally wrote this, I've seen him without a tie plenty of times. I've concluded that wasn't it!) In just his dark suit and white dress shirt I couldn't help but be reminded of a courtroom setting where they make the defendant remove anything that could be used to harm himself. (It wasn't apparent whether he was wearing shoelaces or not.) He just looked so... sad.
gmommy,
"RKK" and Mike Spradlin are two glowing exceptions which immediately come to mind.
Am I not sending you to rescue the Israelites from the Midianites?" He said the Lord told him He wanted him "to finish his ministry in this place."
Just a question....
who did SG rescue at BBC????
as far as "finishing his ministry in this place".....that could be read several different ways...and I believe God never asks us to do anything against scripture....or our methods to go against scripture.
Nass....Sorry I wasn't considerate to Mike and RKK....I was definitely not referring to them!
I was actually thinking of some of the last few sermons I've heard from some ministers in a completely different category as these 2 men. I never group our friends with these guys...sorry I didn't make that clear.
Nass said:
Memphis' illustrious mayor today had this to say about the search for a school superintendent. "We need a school superintendent that understands the urban environment... uhhh... from a holistic perspective... a person that's uhhh... proven... abilities to be a... a tough manager. See, da school system, while it focuses on academic achievement... it is an important business enterprise... uhhh.... "
Then this:
"Well, let me jus' say dis... uhhh... it... it needs someone... quite frankly... probably with da background... uhhh... the knowledge, the skills, and the toughness... yes."
SOTL says:
I beez laughin out loud, girrrrl, you do be funny
Watch it yourself. That was transcribed verbatim. Does anyone have a clue what he was talking about?
Sure Nass, I will translate that for you...
"Bescuse me. I had a hydraulic lunch."
I'll probably regret asking this, but huh?
Never mind. New terminology for it, but I was thinking the same thing!
Lol! Watching that video, I believe his lunch consisted of liquid only. And lots of it.
gmommy,
Alabama is hot and humid like Memphis, which is why in 2000 I moved to Arizona. Very hot, no humidity!
NASS, Your post quoting the Memphis Mayor made me think about this:
What We Need
Edgar Guest
We were settin' there an' smokin' of our pipes, discussin' things,
Like licker, votes for wimmin, an' the totterin' thrones o' kings,
When he ups an' strokes his whiskers with his hand an' says t'me:
"Changin' laws an' legislatures ain't, as fur as I can see,
Goin' to make this world much better, unless somehow we can
Find a way to make a better an' a finer sort o' man.
"The trouble ain't with statutes or with systems--not at all;
It's with humans jest like we air an' their petty ways an' small.
We could stop our writin' law-books an' our regulatin' rules
If a better sort of manhood was the product of our schools.
For the things that we air needin' ain't no writin' from a pen
Or bigger guns to shoot with, but a bigger type of men.
"I reckon all these problems air jest ornery like the weeds.
They grow in soil that oughta nourish only decent deeds,
An' they waste our time an' fret us when, if we were thinkin' straight
An' livin' right, they wouldn't be so terrible an' great.
A good horse needs no snaffle, an' a good man, I opine,
Doesn't need a law to check him or to force him into line.
"If we ever start in teachin' to our children, year by year,
How to live with one another, there'll be less o' trouble here.
If we'd teach 'em how to neighbor an' to walk in honor's ways,
We could settle every problem which the mind o' man can raise.
What we're needin' isn't systems or some regulatin' plan,
But a bigger an' a finer an' a truer type o' man."
___________________________________
How to live with one another, how to neighbor, an' how to walk in honor's ways ~ I believe I'll write this at the top of every one of my Lesson Plan pages!
THANK YOU to all the big, fine, true type men who blog here. I appreciate you! Keep the faith!
Good word, Barney, er...Lizzie. :)
Lizzie, I shared your post with many today. The replies I got back were heartfelt. Some of them wanted to understand that kind of thinking. (some of course have not yet committed to the Lord). Some already had thought it out and agreed that way and so understood it. Some of us already know what we need to do, and just don't quite have the guts to live it out.
Pray that men like myself who belong to Him will exhibit some intestinal fortitude for Him, and some how make a difference in our tiny corner of the world.
Thank you for your encouragement.
Love you my friend.
oc.
I could use a visit from Dr Looney.
Some zaney cheer would be welcome!
Why did he leave???
Texas minister charged in Internet sex sting
Published: 5/16/08, 10:25 PM EDT
BRYAN, Texas (AP) - A minister from a Dallas-area Baptist megachurch was caught in an Internet sex sting and charged with online solicitation of a minor, police said Friday.
Undercover officers posing as a 13-year-old girl communicated with Joe Barron, 52, of Plano for about two weeks. The online conversations were sexual in nature, police said.
On May 6, Barron suggested meeting the girl in person. He eventually made the nearly 200-mile drive to Bryan on Thursday, when he was arrested. Police said they found a web-cam and condoms in his car.
Barron was released Friday night from the Brazos County Jail on bond. Police were unsure whether he had an attorney.
Barron is one of 40 ministers at Prestonwood Baptist Church, one of the largest churches in the country with 26,000 members. He ministers to married adults.
Mike Buster, executive pastor, said in a statement that the church had no record or knowledge of previous improprieties or saw any inappropriate behavior in the 18 months Barron was on the church staff.
Buster said church officials are fully cooperating with police.
"We are disturbed and saddened by the reports we have heard and we are praying for the Barron family," he said.
"We are disturbed and saddened by the reports we have heard and we are praying for the Barron family," he said."
Yeah, and therein is a BIG problem. Although the perp's family is effected,... Why not pray for the VICTIMS, please!
Things are getting very twisted in Christianland. Some are not resembling the author and perfecter of our faith.
Just because the preacher in Texas has not been caught previously, does not mean he hasn't been a pervert all along.. I SERIOUSLY doubt that he got caught on his first time at being a pervert.
If that church lets him back on staff, they are seriously stupid.
Let's all pray that the pastor at that church has more sense that SG, and doesn't consider this to be " unchartered waters".
... or a "moral failure."
The ministers and churches....first state they know nothing of anything prior to this situation.....which is meant to take the heat off them BUT it also implies guilt to the victim...
it is ALWAYS a deflection away from responsibility
THEN....the compassion is always pointed to the ones doing the wrong....not the ones wronged.
That is the new Christian way.
I don't know what a Christian is anymore.
Folks, lets remember - this was a sting operation. There was no victim, simply an officer posing as a child.
Do not take that as an excuse for the minister's conduct. (I still wish we had hangings at dawn and just this type of event may be the reason to bring them back.) I am simply making the point that the church would not have an identified "victim" to apologize to.
If you want to see how ignorant most professing Christians are about scripture, just go to the Dallas Morning news religion blog and read comments about this story.
It is most likely he has prior victims. But keep in mind, Jesus taught that the lust in our hearts was just as bad as the act.
I doubt Prestonwood will keep him on staff. Most SBC mega churches learned something from Gaines' situation. They already said they would launch an 'internal investigation'. And they told police that their computers did not allow access to chat rooms so they did not let police take his work computer. yet, they claim they are totally cooperating with police. (There are plenty of things that could be on his work computer)
This being a sting operation makes some think he was entrapped. But the worlds standards are NOT our standards. This was premeditated. He had been talking to this 'girl' for quite a while, made a 2 hour trip to meet her with gifts. (This is typical for the predator to give gifts)
This guy knew what he was doing. And since we have a long standing strategy in the SBC not to tell on our perverted ministers, there is no telling what his previous churches knew and did not say anything about.
There is no victim? How about all the people at Prestonwood who were under his leadership as a minister? what about his wife? his kids and grandkids?
He did not have to commit the 'act' to have plenty of victims of his fleshy selfish desires.
Lin: You are exactly right; his family members are victims. The stigma is children and wife have to deal with...at their church home....terrible.
I went Thursday night to see Chonda Pierce, a Christian comedian. She is truly wonderful....very down to earth, funny, real. The two main things I came away with have had me thinking since then.
First of all, I have had the distinct "check in my spirit" that we (corporate Christians) are not doing church "right." It feels rote and church seems to have lost logic in leadership. I go back and reread passages and it just doesn't seem right. Well, in front of an auditorium, she said the same thing! She said she is on a personal journey because it seems very wrong. That has caused me to ponder even more about it. What are we doing wrong? What can be salvaged? What do we do now?
2. Chonda is an abuse survivor...from her pastor father. She battles depression....a comedian.....yet....she has to deal with so much "stuff" that happened in her childhood. That led me to a very unoriginal thought, yet one that I believe even more strongly....
We have to deal with sexual abuse in our churches. Now. Forget the "we're autonomous" stuff.....we owe it to the "little lambs" to protect them. The effects for them last long past an "investigation." God can't be pleased with the lack of action on the SBC's part.
Forget the SBC. They aren't going to do anything about this rampant pervert stuff. The SBC is primarily a missions organization, and for the most part they do a good job at preparing and sustaining missionaries, with our money of course.
And autonomy? I'm still glad the church has autonomy. I don't want the SBC telling me next month that I have to use the KJV exclusively, or the NLB, or only do sprinkle baptism, or they must be under water 5.3 seconds, or to start handling snakes, or to start speaking in tongues, or that I must sign some kind of creedal statement. OOPS. It seems they are making missionaries sign a statement which may threaten the "competence of the soul".
Another cherished "Baptist" spiritual freedom is now at stake.
Anyway, back to perverts in our churches. Don't bother calling the SBC, they don't care.
Now if you don't like the fact that the SBC doesn't care, then quit giving them your money. And instead find another church or one in another denomination that does care.
The SBC is a missionary organization. It is not the Vatican. The SBC should not be telling each church what and how to believe. The freedom to believe and what to believe and how to believe is Biblical and personal between the believer and the Lord and has been previously a cherished baptist doctrine. Looks like that's going away however.
Bottom line. Is it really fair for me to expect a missionary organization to punish a minister in my church for being a pervert?
NO. I need to quit counting on any organization or any one else to clean up the church. If the Bride is dirty, then we must help clean her up. Standing on the sidelines wringing our hands and crying "we are dirty, we are dirty, but it's someone else's fault" isn't promoting the Kingdom.
If it means you and I must move on from the familiar, the SBC, then let us move on. And if it means we must call the police on our brethren, ok. Do it. We must do our part. So quit complaining about the SBC. They don't care. And if the SBC is indeed the monster, then why do we continue to feed the monster?
Stop feeding it, if indeed that is what is hammering your conscience. Instead give your 50 bucks to your neighbor and her baby so they can get through the next couple of weeks in diapers and formula. Then give them the Gospel.
Some more ramblin'.
oc.
I will not betray my freedom in Christ by being in bondage to the SBC. Believe it or not Baptists, there are other ways to serve Christ. The SBC doesn't have the monopoly on all that.
oc.
Is there a reliable definition of what a "Baptist" is anymore? That's a question that must be answered since there are many denominations which baptize believers only by immersion, including Pentecostals, Assembly of God, Seventh Day Adventist, Church of Christ, Disciples of Christ, and even some Methodists and Presbyterians will baptize by immersion if requested by the candidate. So if baptizing believers only by immersion is the major defining hallmark of what qualifies as "Baptist" then that leaves a lot open, especially since everything else is left to the competency of the individual. But then another question arises in that...what happens when my competency comes into conflict with someone else's competency? Who's competency is more competent? Doesn't every individual or group believe that their interpretation of what Scripture teaches is the right one?...or at least "more" right? Is there an objective standard of what is right and true, or is it all just left up to subjective interpretation? Well that creates a problem, which is why Christendom is divided into varying denominations, each with its own declaration or "creed" if you will, of what that group believes...or doesn't believe. Does a confession of faith bind an individual's conscience, or does it simply state what a particular group of Christians believe? When believers of like mind gather together into a denomination or "association" doesn't that group of believers have a responsibility to insure that the missionaries sent out and supported by that group believe as that group believes? While some may see that as "dictating" what that person should believe, or attempting to bind that person's conscience, it is not that at all. Every person has the right to leave that association and join with another group who believes as that individual believes. But the fact remains that the particular group supporting any missionary, church, etc. also retains the right and responsibility to define and uphold what it believes as a group, association or denomination. So this brings me back to my first question...is there a reliable definition of what a Baptist, or more succinctly, what is a Southern Baptist? It's a question which needs to be answered.
all of grace...
interesting you should bring up this subject this morning. my pastor, jeff noblit, spoke on this subject this morning as he does from time to time. it weighs heavily on his heart as it does mine and so many others. you would enjoy listening i am sure.
I am a Baptist, but I am not today's Baptist
I don't think we can define 'Baptist' except for a few basic primary beliefs such as Jesus being the only way, narrow gate, scripture alone, faith alone and a biggie: priesthood of believer.
Just do research on where we got the name 'Baptist' and you will see what I mean.
It is when we get into the nebulous secondary doctrines that it gets totally off base.
There are a group now called 'Baptist Identity' folks who are trying to say that the person who baptizes you must be an 'authorized person from a local church'. They believe only in immersion by 'qualified' people into a local church as if it is a sacrament and only a qualified 'priest' can perform it! This, and other 'distinctives', are leading us the way of Rome.
Baptists have always had a mix of Calvinists, Arminians, cessationists, continualists, etc.
It all boils down to some who want authority over others. It is all about 'who is in charge' here in earth when scripture teaches that Jesus Christ is in charge of the Body. Everything else is a function within the Body. God is NO respecter of persons.
Lin ssid this,
"Baptists have always had a mix of Calvinists, Arminians, cessationists, continualists, etc."
Which is exactly what made being a Southern Baptist wonderful. I always loved the diversity. You didn't have to be "one way or the other". But it is no longer that way. Being a Southern Baptist is no longer something wonderful, it has now become too much a burden.
And as I walk along the Way, I am seeing many backpacks tossed aside. Some say SBC on them. And to tell you the truth, they are tossed aside with good reason. When things become a burden along the way to Glory, then those things will necessarily be shed.
Such as it is with our denomination. Sad, but true. That is where we are at, and that is why I am ready to leave it.
oc.
"I don't think we can define 'Baptist' except for a few basic primary beliefs such as Jesus being the only way, narrow gate, scripture alone, faith alone and a biggie: priesthood of believer."
Lin, don't forget the "competence of the soul". Another big Baptist distinctive. It used to be important . That is a biggie for me, and forever will be important to me. All within the confines of the Bible, of course.
I was just reading the comments about SG finding evidence in the Bible telling him to become Bellevue's new preacher.
Reminded me of Dr Rogers old story of the man praying for guidance saying Lord reveal to me in your word exactly what I should do. Opening his Bible his eyes fell on a verse. "and Judas hanged himself."
Not feeling particularly blessed by that selction he agian prayed Lord I am seriously in need of guidance please show me Thy will in Thy word, thinking maybe God only responded to Elisabethan english. The man continued to flip through his Bible until he came to another verse "go thou and do likewise."
Again the man was taken aback. How could God be leading him to such a fate? Another prayer, throwing an ample amount of thees and thous.
Searching again, sweat beading on his brow, his eyes found another verse "whatsoever thou doest do quickly."
Seems we can always find answers in the Bible but they are not always of God nor are they true.
Gideon cast a fleece and received an answer but it was once and done.
Fleece never worked again.
We are to live by faith and seek the will of God through the Holy Spirit.
Grace and peace onto all that believe.
Hello fine folk, just dropped in to see how you're doing. I was inspired by NASS's recap of Steve Gaines' "Gideon" moment.
There are some striking parallels in the story of Gideon. Steve couldn't have picked a better analogy, actually. The account is found in Judges chapters 6-8.
1. Far from being an act of faith, Gideon's use of the fleece actually demonstrated his unbelief. (6:36-40)
2. After God gave him victory (chapter 7), Gideon goes beyond God's direction and pursues the fleeing Midianite kings while disregarding the welfare of his men. (Judges 8:4).
3. He asks his brethren (at Succoth and Penuel) to support the pursuit by providing bread. When they rightly question whether he should be doing this, he swears revenge. (8:5-9)
4. Upon his return, he gathers the names of all the leaders who dared question him, boasts of his victory and exacts revenge on them. (8:13-17)
5. In a show of pride, he tries to heap more shame on the captured kings by having his son, a mere boy, kill them. (8:20)
6. With false humility, he denies wanting to be king, but his request of tribute gifts says otherwise. The people bring him gold, jewelry and kings' clothing. He abuses these by making an idol that corrupts the people. Like a king, he multiplies wives and concubines unto himself and even names one of his sons Abimelech, meaning "my father is king." (8:22-31)
Anyone else see the parallels in the abuse of the flock, unlawful pursuit, loyalty oaths, punitive treatment of those who dare question, boasting of victories, proud displays, abuse of money, abuse of privilege, and generally being a law unto oneself? Is it any wonder he is called King Steve?
a2j,
Eerie and brilliant! Thank you. Don't stay away so long next time!
From the July 10, 2005 Gardendale tape...
*** In early December 2004, an article in the Commercial Appeal about the retirement of Dr. Rogers mentioned Steve Gaines as a possible replacement. He claimed this was the first he'd heard that he was being considered for the job. He called the head of the search committee, Chuck Taylor, who told him that out of 170 candidates they'd narrowed the list down to five and that he was on the short list. He said he told Chuck Taylor to just take his name off the list. "Now your list is four," he reportedly said.
Question: Did anyone ever hear the names of any of the other five "candidates" the committee reportedly had narrowed their search to? I've heard Ken Whitten may possibly have been on the short list as well as one other name which I will reveal later if I can verify its validity. (I think you would be amazed. I was.) I thought it was routine practice when pastor search committees narrow their focus to a few candidates to have those candidates preach at the church prior to any decision being made. I don't recall this happening at BBC. No one knew (although there were suspicions) Steve Gaines was the candidate until the Sunday morning he showed up. I've never heard of anything like this in a Baptist church.
NASS,
The brilliance belongs to our pastor who recently preached from the passage; it didn't take a genius to note the similarities. Your reminder of Steve comparing himself to Gideon (and just about every other biblical hero, come to think of it) completed the circuit.
Question for the group, my teenage daughter is very level headed; some say she has an old soul. She loves Jesus, reads her Bible, does not need to “find herself” or wonder if she will ever find a place where she is “accepted.” She knows there is a boy for her but at this time in her life there is no room in her life for a serious relationship and she knows she is not mature enough for a serious relationship. She hates the rock music that is being shoved down our throats but loves hymns. Where does she go to church? Is there a church where a decent kid is welcome?
"Is there a church where a decent kid is welcome?"
{sigh} I don't know, but if you find one, let me know!
tn_lizzie (who can't log in for some reason) said...
"WishIhadknown," would you please e-mail me?
tn_lizzie2000@yahoo.com
Dear Wish:
*sigh* I 100% understand what you mean. I have 3 kids that were brought up in the same church....attended 3 times a week....but are "good kids." The new lipstick color or who was at the mall Friday night doesn't interest them. Nor does 7-11 songs...uhhh...praise songs. They like hymns too! They are growing and strong Christians, sweet kids, can have an intelligent conversations with adults, take responsibility for their actions....I guess old soul would be a good term. Or old-fashioned. Anyway.....they have yet to find a place. So sad. Well, at least not a Baptist place. One has joined a Lutheran, one has gone nondenominational.
If you find one, let me know.
wish,
I'd like to share with you about our church. My profile has my email address.
How many churches are left that don't have the giant video screens, the rocking music, and the milky sermons?
No doubt there are plenty left. They're the ones you don't hear about, the ones that don't have big-$$$ ad campaigns, billboards, catchy slogans, fireworks shows, all kinds of "programs" to attract the masses, and the pastors aren't leaving the bulk of the work to their staffs (many have no staffs), bilking tour groups, or making the speaking rounds at $5K and upwards a pop. They are the unsung heroes, the humble, faithful servants, not CEO rock stars.
You are right about the CEO rock star preachers. And they get their reward here. But I want to talk about the other side of things. I know a little about real pastors. Out somewhere in Burlington North Dakota, or in Lompoc California, or Abilene, Texas, or Horn Lake, Mississipi, the CEO rock star preacher and the mega church doesn't exist. I have seen real pastors work the fields white with harvest by the sweat of their brow.
And they had a job other than being a pastor. I myself also did so for a few years. I know how very hard it is. So I say, God bless the bivocational pastor. They get no respect, yet their hearts are right and are the most "Beatitude" oriented Christians I have known.
As far as I'm concerned, they are the unsung heroes.
New BBC Open Forum said...
No doubt there are plenty left. They're the ones you don't hear about, the ones that don't have big-$$$ ad campaigns, billboards, catchy slogans, fireworks shows, all kinds of "programs" to attract the masses, and the pastors aren't leaving the bulk of the work to their staffs (many have no staffs), bilking tour groups, or making the speaking rounds at $5K and upwards a pop. They are the unsung heroes, the humble, faithful servants, not CEO rock stars.
8:44 PM, May 21, 2008
One of my bosses at where I work is a pastor. Let me repeat that...one of my bosses in an Accounts Payable Department of a major corporation is a pastor. He has not made being a pastor a career. And let me tell you...I see more Jesus in him than I do Steve Gaines.
This is what I know about what bivocational pastors do, at least what I know from my own personal experience. In rural areas, or poor sections of the city, the pastor might be paid as little as 50 dollars a month. That was my experience. And that pastor will cash that check and put it back in offering plate, along with whatever he else he can possibly give, because the electric bill for the church is due. He doesn't drive a Lexus, or Cadillac. He has an older car that he is nursing along. He prays for that car everyday. He dines at Burger King and Taco Bell, if he has an extra few cents. He doesn't dine at a nice restaurant or some
country club. In fact Macaroni and cheese is a main staple. Four boxes for a dollar. Chop some hot dogs in it, well, it's a special day for pastor and his two kids. I really hope you don't think I'm kidding about this, because I lived it.
He preaches of Jesus' coming, and His second coming, and the hope He gives. He preaches about the life, the death, and resurrection of the One who saves us. And he isn't shy talking about sin and the Blood of Christ. He isn't concerned about offending anyone, because he already knows the Gospel is offensive. He's not here to make people comfortable. He's here to deliver the Gospel, and he hopes and prays that at least one will be saved, and he prays it can actually happen, even though he didn't make it to seminary, and he is not "polished", and he doesn't even have evangelist hair.
Even so.
That guy is my hero.
Hasn't this dog (or horse or however the saying goes) been beaten enough?
I too am OVER the mega, self anointed, stars in the pulpits but I also have no problem with an educated minister that lives a reasonably comfortable life.
BTW...my personal preference is for an educated minister but (for me ) the teaching should reflect a deep understanding of the Bible and his character should reflect his changed heart...which should not include being a greedy person.
It takes all kinds. I'm not going to resent another person because they are living well if they have worked hard and have been blessed.
I am especially ADD tonight...sorry.....my point is...
lets not appear to expect all ministers to be street preachers. People are called to do different jobs for the Lord.
And please remember my original statement :)
gmommy,
You are right.
Thanks.
It was so very sad to hear of Steven Curtis Chapman's daughter. At Stevencurtischapman.com there is a link for condolences. Our prayers go out to that family, especially the son who was driving.
Ox,
so so tragic...breaks my heart for the family and especially the brother.
God will not look you over for medals, degrees,or diplomas, but for scars.
-Elbert Hubbard, The Note Book.
To someone who has a birthday today...
Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.
And before you were born, I consecrated you..."
And Psalms 139:15 and 16,
"My frame was not hidden from Thee,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth.
Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Thy book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them."
I'm glad he made you! Happy Birthday!
RE: Steven Curtis Chapman
Much to my dismay, yesterday someone said to me, " Well, at least she wasn't their REAL child..because that would make it a lot worse"
SIGH....
Ok...up on my soapbox
Adopted children are REAL...That child is/was as real to those parents as anyone who ever gave birth to a child.
The bonds of love are formed thru emotions, NOT biology.
If you are married and your spouse dies, does that mean that you don't mourn their loss because you are not related to them by blood?
Of course not!!
The person that said this did not realize that my children were adopted, and I "educated" them real quick. Unfortunately, it was said in front of my son.
I had to take my son aside and explain to him that is just ignorant talk and that I could not imagine loving him more than I do.
My heart goes out to the Chapman family in the loss of their precious baby girl, and also for the pain and guilt that the brother will have over his little sister.
Ran across this today and felt like I should share it with you guys. A long read but worth the time.
Contentment
I was asking a person the other day, how are we to have joy in the face of all the tribulation, trials and testing we all face in our daily lives.
Seems like Mr. Watson has an exhaustive commentary on the subject.
sotl,
I would say "I can't imagine someone being so ignorant and insensitive"
BUT...after all we have been thru with BBC and "moral failures" and so called Christians being so hard hearted about sin....
I'm not a bit surprised.
I AM sorry your son had to hear her.
AY YI YI.
Those who don't think adopted kids are as important as children who were born to their parents are about as insane as one of the people in Bolivar.
I was adopted when I was born. Of my mom's 3 children, her two biological children and me, she brags about me the most.
It doesn't matter if a child was adopted or not. When a child dies, especially in tragic situations like Steven Curtis Chapman's daughter was killed, it still hurts as much as if it was a biological child.
SOTL and Lynn, I have a blended family but never make the distinction in my love for any of my children. To imply that an adopted child is loved less is absurd. Someone who is adopted is actually chosen or picked by the one adopting. Let us not forget, we are adopted into the family of God and made joint heirs with Christ without exception. Praise God!
As he so often does, Steve Gaines managed to work the subject of the "eeeeeeevils" of ever touching a drop of alcohol into his sermon tonight. It's amazing how, regardless of the sermon topic, he frequently does that these days. Almost like it's an obsession. He talked about how that applies to "Christians" in general. Hmmm... just wondering if that applies a little closer to home, say to underage (illegal) imbibers.
Or is I Timothy 3:1-5 just a "guideline," too?
I think it's odd that he seems to find a way to get back to alcohol whatever the sermon is suppose to be.....why is that always on his mind.
Wonder if he is preaching to anyone in particular????
I wouldn't stand too close to him, Lynn. Gotta be a big old lightning bolt with his name on it!
NASS, I think it's a shame that Dr. Gaines gets his righteous anger up over alcohol, yet refuses to see the wrong in obeying God's inerrant Word, shepherding the sheep, or truly reaching out to the lost. In the latter cases, his response seems to be "heh...heh...heh"
gmommy,
It may be easier to preach about a sin that doesn't tempt you. How many sermons have you heard lately on overeating?
Proverbs 23:2
...put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.
just sayin'
"ox" wrote:
"... yet refuses to see the wrong in obeying God's inerrant Word.... "
I think you left out a "not." As in "not obeying God's inerrant Word.... "
"How many sermons have you heard lately on overeating?"
I heard Steve Gaines bring up that very subject during a sermon a few weeks ago. He was bragging about how when he goes out to eat with a group the question to him is not, "Do you want dessert?" but "What do you want for dessert?" He said he prefers the "sampler plate" of desserts.
So I guess by his account,if it's HIS sin, it isn't a BIG sin.
(No pun intended.) A drop of alcohol is sin but eating all the deserts in the place is not? Looks like some more convenient Scripture "guideline" skipping to me. Oh, but he does say he does that with a group. I guess we get to do what we want, and sin, and justify it, as long as we're in a group.
Guess I'll see you all at the bar.
:)
NASS, thanks for making that correction in my 12:24 post of today. I did leave out that important word "not". My mind was swimming with thoughts of "guidelines" and "covered by the blood" references.
"Guess I'll see you all at the bar.
:)"
Of course I meant the salad bar.
Oink oink.
Okay, now you’ve done it! You’ve made me have to agree with SG. But then again even a blind chicken gets a kernel of corn every once in a while.
I have to agree with SG when he preaches against the consumption of alcohol. Dr. Rogers also had a number of good sermons against drinking alcohol. Remember Dr. Rogers comparing the man who says he can control his drinking to the man who kept a rattlesnake in a jar as a pet? The man said he never had a problem with the snake in the jar even bragged about how easily he could control the evil monster. Only one day the man came home to find the body of his son lying next to the open empty jar. I also have never heard of overeating killing or putting innocent people in the hospital. Nor have I heard of DWO, driving while obese. Although being given a mandatory 48 hour sentence without food would probably do me and many of us some good.
I realize you may not agree with me. I defer to Dr. Rogers’ sermons because he presents the best arguments on the subject.
A vehement SG supporter once called me down in a public meeting on ethics of all things. I had made the statement that if you are a leader or a Sunday school teacher at Bellevue then you should not drink alcoholic beverages. This set her off as she explained to me that she was a Sunday school teacher at Bellevue and that there was nothing wrong with a glass of wine at dinner. She also went on to say that Jesus consumed wine because he partied with the publicans. And that the wine he changed from water was alcoholic. I have to wonder what she is thinking about as she hears SG agree with my point of view.
WIHK, I don't think anyone here is arguing for alcohol to be consumed. I think the point NASS was making was "He doth protest too much." Please correct me if I'm wrong. Dr. Rogers spoke against alcohol many times, even saying things like why don't beer companies finish an tv ad showing the true end results of over indulgence, such as lying in a pool of vomit. But Dr. Rogers didn't work it into every or even nearly every sermon for it to lose effectiveness or even become a distraction.
WIHK, btw, overeating has killed many a innocent person. When an obese person has a heart attack and they were driving a car and it wrecks into others. When an obese passenger is riding in the back seat of a car (no, I don't have a car fixation!) and is involved in an accident, if they weren't wearing a seat belt, they crash into the front seat passengers and kill them, etc. I am preaching to myself here as I certainly have some extra weight to lose, but in my opinion, directly or indirectly, gluttony is still a sin.
As always, it's the other guys sins, or bad habits, if you prefer to call them that, that loom the largest in our eyes. If someone doesn't drink, then drinking is the big no-no. Same with smoking or gluttony, or any other practice that is harmful to health. Nothing wrong with abstaining from those things, or even speaking out against them if those are your convictions. However to speak of gluttony as somehow being less harmless is ludicrous. While true that gluttony won't make you drunk and run into someone on the road....stroking out or having a heart attack because your arteries are clogged with Big Macs while driving can have the same devastating effects. Not to mention the widow and orphans one leaves behind who can't resist the "sampler" dessert tray and eats himself into heart failure, diabetes, and a host of other ills. Most arguments against alcohol and tobacco are based on the body being a temple, but it's a fact that the number one health problem among SBC pastors (and many in the pew) is obesity. Nothing to take lightly, given the information we now have on the effects of poor diet, obesity, and lack of exercise on the heart, lungs, and circulatory system. So while abstaining from the "big two" (alcohol and tobacco) may make one feel pretty good about themselves, laughing off gluttony, or thinking of it as somehow a "lesser" evil, is hypocrisy. Just arguing that gluttony won't send you to jail or kill innocent people won't cut it. Every sin has its victims..innocent and otherwise.
A manager friend of my wife and I where we work gave my wife the following link. I don't know how to make a link so maybe NASS will do so if she pleases. Anyway, the topic is timely to many recent discussions here and I think it is well worth the 40 minutes or so it takes to listen to it. It's convicting and encouraging. Please listen if you get a chance: http://www.voddiebaucham.org/vbm/Podcast/Entries/2007/1/17_The_Centrality_of_the_Home.html
"ox" wrote:
"WIHK, I don't think anyone here is arguing for alcohol to be consumed. I think the point NASS was making was 'He doth protest too much.'"
That was one point -- the obsession. I do not drink, primarily because I hate the taste, not to mention it's expensive and loaded with empty calories, but I'm not going to condemn someone who chooses to have the occasional drink as long as it doesn't lead to drunkenness. Unfortunately, it often does, and as Christians, I think it's probably better to just not tempt fate.
But there was a second and I think more germane point, and it can be found here.
In my opinion, it's a far cry from saying that I like dessert and my being a glutton.
And furthermore, please remember that Steve Gaines has a chronic disease that requires him to take steroids. Those meds are the reason he has gained so much weight in the last 8 years, not gluttony. In fact, he even tried to lose weight by stopping the treatment a few months ago, but the disease caused him to lose control of his facial muscles once again.
Yes aog, gluttony is a sin. But before you condemn someone as a sinful glutton you need to observe their eating habits and not just their outward appearance. That's the error Eliphaz made. (And perhaps that's another reason Jesus told us not to judge: we're not qualified.)
Given the choice Dr. Gaines (just like any overweight person) would prefer to weigh less, but he doesn't really have that choice the way that a healthy man does. As he told the congregation, he had to choose between being a fat two-eyed preacher or a skinny one-eyed preacher and he chose the former.
(p.s.
Lynn,
Please visit the other blog.)
Oh NASS, that's just a "guideline". I heard that an esteemed pastor said so.
So it's really not for me.
But I sure expect everyone else to abide by it. :)
Hope,
Yeah, sure there is a health problem. But knowing this, one would think that one should not compound the problem by having the dessert sampler, and then bragging about it. Maybe a little self control is in order at that point.
Hope,
I think most people are aware of Dr. Gaines' medical problems, the fact that he takes prednisone, and that prednisone can cause a person to gain weight. I was merely quoting him when he seemed to be bragging about always ordering dessert when he eats out (which I imagine is often). He was the one who said no one ever asks if he wants dessert, that he orders the "sampler plate" of desserts... and then laughed about it. No one here made that up.
Which other blog are you referring to?
Nass,
Nothing personal, but I posted after so long to help a young man who in my opinion has made a serious mistake which will cause him a lot of grief and pain if he doesn't fix it. Provided he really wants to make friends in the single's department. Lynn will know which blog I meant.
As long as I'm here,
oc said...
Oh NASS, that's just a "guideline". I heard that an esteemed pastor said so.
I've heard that kicked around a lot too. Who did you hear it from, OC? Was it a reputable source? Someone you trust? Would their testimony hold up in court? Would you stake your reputation on what this person says? Would you entrust them with your life?
Or do you even know who said it in the first place?
I'd like to share something from a sermon Jim Haywood linked to when he severed all connections with this blog. I don't necessarily agree with everything Jim does, but I do believe that his intentions are honorable. He might have the finesse of a pit bull, but I don't believe he'd do anything unless he really believed it was right.
(Not to say that it's relevant to this particular situation, but it's something to always think about.)
Jim felt it was relevant at one time for this blog, and perhaps we should all seriously consider it again.
One of the most common forms of rejoicing in sin is gossip. Gossips would do little harm if they did not have so many eager listeners. This sin, which many Christians treat lightly, is wicked not only because it uncaringly reveals the weaknesses or sins of others, and therefore hurts rather than helps them, but because the heart of gossip is rejoicing in evil. The essence of gossip is gloating over the shortcomings and sins of others, which makes gossip a great sin itself.
(An anonymous author wrote these powerful words),
"I have no respect for justice. I maim without killing, I break hearts and ruin lives. I am cunning and malicious and gather strength the older I am alive. The more I am quoted the more I am believed. My victims are helpless. They cannot protect themselves against me, because I have no name and no face. To track me down is impossible. The harder they try, the more elusive I become. I topple governments and wreck friendships. I ruin careers and cause sleepless nights and heartaches. I make innocent people cry in their pillows. I make headlines and headaches. Even my name hisses. I am called Gossip and I am nobody’s friend."
If Jim felt these words were relevant, I have to seriously stop and wonder why. He's no sycophant who's afraid of the powers that be at Bellevue. He's not interested in waiting for the storm to blow over.
He evidently feels that at one time there was a significant amount of sinful gossip here, enough to severe all contact.
Is everyone comfortable that the situation has changed? There is not to be even a hint of immorality among us, and that includes gossip. Let's all be careful that we don't give anyone the opportunity to accuse of of it.
I did not condemn anyone. Saying someone who drinks should not be a leader at Bellevue is not condemnation. Being a leader at Bellevue is not necessary for salvation. Remember, there is therefore now no condemnation.
Drinking alcoholic beverages is not necessary to live but eating is. We live in an age and a place that we have ready access to clean, healthy drinking water.
For years the standard at Bellevue was to be a leader meant abstaining from consuming alcoholic beverages.
Isn't funny that some people show up at strange times? I had an uncle like that. I'll call him uncle Fred. Some Christians are like uncle Fred.
I mean, they say they care about you, act righteous and want to show you a better way,(because of course whatever you are doing is not good enough, and is possibly of Satan), yet if you don't do things exactly as they would do, they will walk away. They will tell you to clean your house, but they will not help you do it. Then they leave. And you don't hear from them for months, maybe years. Then all of the sudden, they show up again. And they usually have an agenda. Maybe wanting something. Or just wanting to show that they are better than you, and that your house is still dirty. And yet if you went over there to look at Uncle Fred's house, it seems to need a good cleaning too.
Just sayin'.
oc.
Hope, I said an "esteemed pastor" said so. Why do you think it's Gaines? Kinda defensive, aren't you?
Hope Patterson wrote:
"Nothing personal, but I posted after so long to help a young man who in my opinion has made a serious mistake which will cause him a lot of grief and pain if he doesn't fix it."
The "young man" has an e-mail address in his profile. You could have used it to "help" him privately, but you wanted to embarrass him so you chose instead to "help" him publicly. And yes, it is personal. You made it personal.
As for why JH chose to remove the link to the blog from his website, you have NO idea what you're talking about. You have no clue as to the real reason behind that. The "gossip" sermon link was a smokescreen, but of course you can believe what you want.
It's amazing the leaps people will make to try to equate "fact" with "gossip."
Yes aog, gluttony is a sin. But before you condemn someone as a sinful glutton you need to observe their eating habits and not just their outward appearance. That's the error Eliphaz made. (And perhaps that's another reason Jesus told us not to judge: we're not qualified.)
Who did I call a sinful glutton? And who did I judge? I was making a point about the fact that Baptists are notorious about condemning alcohol or tobacco use, but regularly "joke" about habits that statistically claim more lives than all drunk drivers put together. The facts I spoke of concerning obesity among SBC pastors came right out of the SBC itself...so if you have a problem with that, take it up with the SBC. I don't personally know Steve Gaines' eating habits, nor do I care to know. I merely used his own words about the dessert "sampler" to make a point. You're making much ado about nothing, as well as making a leap.
AOG,
I didn't think you or anyone pointed the finger at SG for gluttony.
Wish,
I felt the same way when I was teaching and in the choir.
No matter how we all may differ on the issue of drinking itself, I think most of us agree we should not cause our weaker brother to stumble.
American Idol is an interesting article, discussing the American Jesus vs. the Bible Jesus.
To learn more about how the contemporary gospel differs from the biblical gospel, click here to read the on-line version of The Great Gospel Deception.
The author makes some valid points in that article, but he also promotes speaking in tongues among other things.
And this.
"The Bible contains many scriptures that offer indisputable proof that it is God's will to heal everyone."
This is an insult to the thousands of faithful who die every day of cancer and other illnesses. I suppose Steve Gaines just doesn't have enough faith. Otherwise he'd be healed of his illness, too. (I don't believe that. I'm just applying the author's theory to a real life example.)
Why am I not surprised there's a link at the bottom of that page where you can donate?
Well, I don't pressume to know dude's diet, but there are a lot of well-paid preachers of the rotund variety.
What is not in dispute, however, is that he is a power-glutton--and that rates as more egregious than the dessert sampler.
The whole Bellevue charade props Worthington's law, which posits that those who make more money than you are better than you, thus beyond all criticism.
tn_lizzie2000 said:
Argh! Bad scholarship on my part!!
I guess I should have stayed up later and searched that site more before posting in the first place.
Thanks for pointing out the errors. I'd hate for anyone to think I agreed with all of the stuff you found. I suspect there's more error there too.
Sorry, y'all!
____________________________
Hi, Cakes! I've missed you! Is school out? :o)
Schoooooooool's out for summer!
Oops, sorry for the devilish Alice Cooper reference on dis family-friendly blog.
I have worn eye-liner, back in da day.
Cakes, Funny you should mention Alice (Vince) he lives in my neck of the woods. He is really very conservative except for the fact he likes his music, a lot! He is a conservative republican and is extremely family oriented. He's very involved locally in many organizations that are family friendly, throws a great Christmas party for charity each year and my girls attended his wife's ballet studio. Past the surface stuff, he's a good guy! Really. LOL
ox said...
Cakes, Funny you should mention Alice (Vince) he lives in my neck of the woods. He is really very conservative except for the fact he likes his music, a lot! He is a conservative republican and is extremely family oriented. He's very involved locally in many organizations that are family friendly, throws a great Christmas party for charity each year and my girls attended his wife's ballet studio. Past the surface stuff, he's a good guy! Really. LOL
5:28 PM, May 29, 2008
So thats why he's so good at Golf :D
And Hey Cakes. Alice Cooper ROCKS :)
And Hey Cakes. Alice Cooper ROCKS :)
Maybe so. But eyeliner is still for girls!
oc.
And Hey Cakes. Alice Cooper ROCKS :)
Maybe so. But eyeliner is still for girls!
oc.
8:24 PM, May 29, 2008
I think Alice has given that up for yellow plaid pants and a 9 Iron :P
What? Yellow plaid pants? That's almost as bad as eyeliner!!!!!
oc.
OC,
Yellow plaid pants is worse; Alice has got a great radio show--I heard it near Batesville last weekend. A lot of classic metal--yeah baby! I've got a soft spot for Motorhead.
A republican, eh? Well, he probably did a lot of drugs back in the day--HAW!
Hey OC, I'm out of skool for two months--whatayesay we kick it soon--everyone's invited. It's time for Lynn to get out that scented bowling ball, Gmom, CSBCer and SOTL can cut a rug, AOG can effuse, Padroc will get philosophical, and cakes will get crunk on the didgeridoo--yoohoo!
Of course, NASS will ref.
Naturally.
Why is it everytime I show up, it gets quiet--what'd I say? Me jus teasing a lil' about the republicans.
Smootches my beloved friends--you're da bomb!
Hey Cakes,
I'm here, just still trying to figure out what "get crunk on the didgeridoo" means. Yeah, I know, I work with teen-agers, but I'm still a little old school. I hope it doesn't have to do with eye-liner or yellow plaid pants!
OC,
A didgeridoo is an Aboriginal instrument from Australia; and loosely, "crunk" is "out'ta site," in old school parlance. Actually, the didgeridoo is old, old, really-old school. Like, prehistoric. It's the primordial synthesizer.
I'm with OC...I read the post this morning and smiled...but as usual...I don't understand :)
You sure have us all pegged tho!!!!...you forgot Lily pad cuts a mean rug too...
she just does it with a little more cool than the rest of us!:)
OK....on with the digeridoo???
Hey, Cakes? Can I bring a Bullroarer ? As long as there's plenty of room, I can make a BIG sound with them... assuming that I don't wrap the thing around my neck!
DH first learned of them after a web-search on the aerodynamics of sound generation. We have never used them for medicinal or sacred purposes, but they have a huge "Gee Whiz" factor in our neighborhood! :oP
Are we going to synchronize our watches, or is this clandestine meeting going to be unofficial?
Cakes,
You continue to teach us!!
My son says he jammed with someone who had a didgeridoo....
outa site...very cool:)
I didn't know what didgeridoo was either, but I like the sound of it.
If we hadn't defined it so well, the other side might have thought we were speaking in code or tongues. Hardee Har Har
Unfortunately, I no longer have the scented bowling balls. I changed ball companies and these don't have fragrances to them.
Now Cakes, If you like Science Fiction...I'd recommend Dr. Who :).
All this code is giving me a headache...
You know what? I think I lost part of the code book. Can someone email me page 172 section 4.1 subsection EE/4A, paragraph 6b, sentence Q 7.r62.?
Thank you.
It's okay. That page was intentionally left blank.
Eye-liner. Yellow plaid pants. Alice Cooper. Republicans. Bullroarer. Didgeridoo. Bowling balls. Cutting rugs. Dr. Who. Synchronization...
Send me that section of the Codebook ASAP!
Nass,
You crack me up!!!
..and I needed a laugh!!!
IT"S FRIDAY....hooray!!!!
Where is CSBCer????
Now we could really have some fun with those code words....
but Cakes is probably out shooting pool...and where is junk????
OC...pages arriving soon!!
E-l. Ypp. AC. R. B. D. Bb. Cr. Dr. Who.
g o t i t
:o}
Alright Lizzie. You have the code and decoder ring. You know what to do.
Decode,Re-code, and send. Get the addresses from the Step Not A Ford Grown Up Lamb. Ten Four good buddy. :)
What clandestine meeting?
I have not received the memo.
Ya'll know that there IS no meeting without my bling!!!!
Sotl.
Do you have the yellow plaid pants?
Does your didgeridoo cut the rug when the scented bowling ball bullroars down the Republican alley towards Alice Cooper's aboriginal Gee Whiz factor?
(Look in your Raisin Bran box for decoder instructions.)
No fun at all without bling bling SOTL!!
Yes, OC understands knaves never utter clever knowledge like esoteric, holy ecclesiastics always do.
From today's Commercial Appeal:
The article is transcribed here in its entirety simply to provide context. It's the answer to the last question I find interesting.
Q & A with Phil Newberry
Ministering to teenagers has impact
Name: Phil Newberry
Title: Student pastor at Bellevue Baptist Church, 2000 Appling in Cordova, for 23 years.
Family: Wife of 33 years, Jeanne, Son, Tyler and his wife Leslianne and their two children, Aevyn and Stone, live in Breckenridge, Colo. Daughter Natalie is a senior at Union University.
Education: Arkansas Tech University in Russellville, Ark. Attended Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas.
What led you to youth ministry? Ultimately it was the call of the Lord Jesus Christ on my life as a 13-year-old. I love teenagers. These kids have the potential and power to change the world. Plus between 80-85 percent of all people who come to know Christ as their Lord and Savior do so before the age of 18. So, to impact a teenager's life is to impact their destiny and impact generations to come.
What did you do before you were a youth minister? I have been on a church staff since I was 16 years old, so it's all that I have ever known the past 36 years.
What do you think you would be doing if you had not become a minister? I'd travel the world and host my own TV show on the Travel Channel.
What is the best advice you could give? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
What is something abut yourself that most people don't know? I have degrees in both music and theater. I love directing choral music and enjoy acting.
What are you excited about at your church? Steve Gaines. The hand of God is upon our new pastor and there is a fresh, new vision for Bellevue to love God, love people, share Christ and make disciples. His desire is to see his congregation love Memphis and share the love of Christ with the people of Memphis and the Mid-South is contagious and exciting. I am also excited about our incredible teenagers and their passionate love for Jesus.
Oh pooh, we got serious again just as I found a cd with James Bond music on it. LOL.
No, seriously, I too am troubled by the last statement made by PN. Sounds too much like a contrived pr job and not sincere. It sounds more like a "I still want my job" answer. How sad.
By the way, I use the handicapped word verification process. If some of you haven't tried it, do so. It's a real hoot!!
What are you excited about at your church? Steve Gaines. The hand of God is upon our new pastor and there is a fresh, new vision for Bellevue to love God, love people, share Christ and make disciples. His desire is to see his congregation love Memphis and share the love of Christ with the people of Memphis and the Mid-South is contagious and exciting. I am also excited about our incredible teenagers and their passionate love for Jesus.
That right there is a very disturbing notion right there. I can think of a million things to be more excited about than the Dalek Emperor himself. How about being excited about God more than being excited about a person.
"The mark of a carnal church is that it always talks about ITSELF."
-Ray Steadman
HEY.....what's the story???? You know there can be no clandestine meeting without my *wink wink* Chicken Rotel! (check your code book, TN Lizzie)
I'll get back to you on this....
:)
PS Survey....gag.
32: Good statement.
CSBCer,
You got that right!!! The Rotel Chicken rule is on page 1 of the secret handbook!!
You've been missed around here!!!
and Cakes can't have any fender benders this time.....I'll pick him up!
And I promise not to wear any outlandish suits like these:
Fashion Disaster 1
Fashion Disaster 2
OR
Fashion Disaster 3
Lynn said...
I can think of a million things to be more excited about than the Dalek Emperor himself.
Dalek Emperor! Buwahahahahahaha! That's rich! Thanks for the laugh, bro.
Ex-ter-mi-nate!!
"the plaid rainbow warrior look"
I had a jacket like this back in college. I wore it as a clown named "Rainbow"!
I'm pretty sure his cost more than mine did!
We ran into a friend the other night who says the Bellevue exodus continues apace. So much so that not only is the balcony closed for evening services (both Sunday and Wednesday), the main floor lights are off in the back, which he describes as quite dark. They presumably want people to sit down front -- and save on the utility bill, which I'm sure is nothing to take lightly.
Our friend has remained at BBC, in spite of concerns about the leadership, due to friendships, etc. Many of those friends have now moved on and with the devastation so blatantly obvious, he is looking elsewhere too. I think the straw for him, though, was when he applied for benevolence due to a financial hardship (the first time in 30 years of membership) and was told "You got yourself into this mess and you need to get yourself out." Perhaps his situation didn't meet their guidelines, but they were certainly not kind to him.
Helloooooo blog friends!
"You got yourself into this mess and you need to get yourself out."
all2jesus, now we know what to say when BBC can no longer pay the utility bill.
Your poor friend. Is he going to be ok? Recovering From Churches That Abuse, by Dr. Ronald Enroth is a good book...
"You got yourself into this mess and you need to get yourself out."
I'm glad Jesus didn't say that to me.
OC,
that's sure the truth!
"You got yourself into this mess and you need to get yourself out."
I wonder how many of the older members who have fallen on hard times due to the high cost of fuel and high medical costs the Evil Empire has said that to. Its probably a lot.
In my estimation, it is the churches role in society to assist those who need it, not the government's.
Gmommy,
This is what He told me...
"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you shall find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy,and My load is light."
It seems a bit different than "you got yourself into this and you need to get yourself out," doesn't it?
Galatians 6:10...
So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all men, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.
I'm sure some will say "don't comment unless you know the whole story".
But we know alltoJesus wouldn't share the situation unless he knew the people involved.
I know the benovolence has been less than compassionate in the past when single moms went to MD for help.
The church gets no publicity for helping out a member but they market their contributions to "Memphis".
"...especially to those who are of the household of faith".
on a light note...who has plans for the weekend that isn't mowing the lawn or cleaning the house????
gmommy said...
on a light note...who has plans for the weekend that isn't mowing the lawn or cleaning the house????
10:06 PM, June 06, 2008
Does bowling, doing homework, and hoping I'm waking up from a nightmare at work count?
That counts Lynn! Especially waking up from a nightmare at work. Let me know how you do that.
See you Sunday evening at the Cotton Bowl. :)
No..I get to wake up from the work nightmare first...PLEASE!!!!
See Tim Simpson's TV station featuring Bellevue's VBS
Here
Look for "Kids Turn Out Big Time For Bible ..." (currently on page 1)
Also at the end of the videos (now on page 25) see a couple on Joel Osteen who also pulled away from the Southern Baptist
Good morning o purveyor of filth,
I know you've missed me but I occasionally look in on your blog. It sure is dying on the vine isn't it? If you didn't have gmommy you wouldn't have much to write.
It is nice watching things go on at BBC with or without you. Obviously, you are a voice in the wilderness that noone even cares to hear.
Still praying that the Lord would shut your vicious mouth.
Gmommy said:
"No..I get to wake up from the work nightmare first...PLEASE!!!!"
Uh uh. Sorry. Age before beauty. Me first.
Awww, "brady." Sorry I didn't see this yesterday. It was in my "C__p" folder which I usually don't check more than once a week. You do keep us humble, "brady"... and remind us so vividly of the loving attitude you're learning at Steve Gaines' feet (while you're down there kissing them). He and all the happy people left at BBC must be so proud to have you as their representative here! You keep up the good work, sweetie. Who knows? A lucrative BBC staff position may loom in your future!
oc,
"Gmom" is both older and prettier than you. So if age trumps beauty, she's still first! :-)
Uh uh. No Ma'am. I don't believe that pretty lady is older than I am. But she is most certaintly prettier.
But why not let the ugly old boy get a break this time?
And Hi Bwady! I see that your septic mouth is still around. I guess that means that you still care about us. So wipe on, little feller. Love you little guy.
oc.
proud member of the
Relentless Ragtag Rebels
(see Christa's blog for explanation!)
:)
Brady said...
Good morning o purveyor of filth,
I know you've missed me but I occasionally look in on your blog. It sure is dying on the vine isn't it? If you didn't have gmommy you wouldn't have much to write.
It is nice watching things go on at BBC with or without you. Obviously, you are a voice in the wilderness that noone even cares to hear.
Still praying that the Lord would shut your vicious mouth.
9:17 AM, June 07, 2008
Brady...do us all a favor and go play in rush hour traffic.
Now, Lynn. We should treat "brady" with love and respect... not the love and respect he deserves and certainly not the "love" and "respect" with which he treats us. We need to strive to rise above his level.
Brady,
Thank you for checking in on us!
Yes, we are a voice in the wilderness... always have been.
There IS someone who cares.
and we care for each other.
as much as you'd like to bother us...we understand that you have to be true to who you are.
No one expects this blog to "live" forever. :)
The truth will always stay the same...no matter what ugly names you call us.
What we witnessed and experienced from the BBC leadership will forever impact our lives and others.
And the bonds formed between the people you see post and those you don't see will not be forgotten.
Your words and the anger that you display have no impact on our "voice in the wilderness".
Recalcitrant sheep beware! Here and here is the latest addition to Bellevue's lake. It has big, glowing, amber eyes and rotates! LOL!
One of the sheep in the field reported to RRR headquarters that there was some guy on Germantown Parkway at Bellevue Parkway this morning (on the Bellevue side near the big blue circus sign) who was holding a large, handwritten sign that said "Repent, Pyramid Church!" I have no idea what that was about, nor does anyone else I've spoken with. If it was directed at Bellevue, and I've no real reason to believe it was, perhaps he meant Bellevue's like a pyramid, with one person at the top and the peons at the base. Still, that would be awfully cryptic for the average sheep to get. Seems as if he'd have been more to the point if that's what it was really about. Maybe it was just some nut. Anyone know?
Naw. I don't think it was a nut. I wish I would have had enough guts and gas for it to be me instead!
tn_lizzie2000 said...
all2jesus, now we know what to say when BBC can no longer pay the utility bill.
Excellent point!
Your poor friend. Is he going to be ok? Recovering From Churches That Abuse, by Dr. Ronald Enroth is a good book...
By God's grace he weathered the storm, but I have no details. Opportunities are opening for him in several directions and he appears to be on the road to recovery. Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll mention it to him.
There's an article about Christa Brown and Baptist sex abuse in the Austin American Statesman for tomorrow - it's already out online here.
Anyone who'd like to write a letter to the editor, here is the link. (There will probably be some negative letters - you know the kind - so it would be nice to see the paper get some positive ones as well.)
It would be great for us to support the efforts of Christa Brown.
Even the relentless get weary!!
nighty night.
Good morning purveyor,
Glad to see you still love me so much. Its always nice to read the words from you and your Spirit-filled believers. Its such an uplifting experience!
Keep up the good work--it casts a tremendous light on Christianity.
Oh dang, I thought I was banned forever but it looks like I'm permitted back in or you don't have anyone writing anything worth publishing.
Anyway I'm glad I'm accepted back with such loving and close friends.
Love & Kisses,
Brady
Purveyor,
I want you to know I am so disappointed in you today! I wrote you two notes this morning and you haven't published either one of them.
And I thought you knew how to follow the Biblical admonition to forgive your brother at least 70 times 7.
Guess your words are more hollow than I thought.
I still love you though...
Brady
Okay mr. blog man, it's time for a new topic. I know you are pulled in many directions, but how about a new topic????
Suggestion: Sexual predators in the SBC. We have already spoken of such coverups, but how about a topic that you encourage everyone to research and post facts only.
Thank you and love to all my blog buds.
Lily A
So sorry, "brady." I didn't see your latest offerings until this morning. Remember, your posts are special, and they go straight into a special file that I don't always see every day. Kind of like the little "presents" the neighbors' dogs leave in my yard. Unless I'm looking I don't always immediately find them.
As far as being banned, I don't recall ever saying you were, BUT if you thought you were, then why would you keep trying to post comments? That doesn't seem very nice! Certainly not something a fine Christian such as yourself would want to do. I know of a couple of other posters who were banned from several blogs who refused to stop posting comments. Surely such a shining example of... er... what is it you're a shining example of again?... as yourself doesn't want to be cast in the same negative light in which those pitiable, obstinate posters cast themselves! Nah, "brady," you just keep telling "us" how evil we are and calling me funny names and showing "us" that sweet, loving spirit of yours. You're only helping illustrate my point.
Oh, and just because I don't publish every comment you post doesn't necessarily mean you're banned. It just means you're not going to be allowed to hijack the blog. Have a nice day!
From today's LWF daily devotional...
"John Calvin was one of the greatest theologians who ever lived."
Uhhh... wasn't John Calvin... gasp!... a Calvinist?
"Keep up the good work--it casts a tremendous light on Christianity."
Persecutor,
Oh contrare, not to the extent that you and your ilk--snivelers, sychophants and lemmings (this is not to call names; these are legitimate designations)--value unity over justice and timid loyalty over uncomfortable truth: you guy's just radiate Christ.
And all this time I thought He was someone who valued truthfulness and integrity; the restoration of all, not merely the entitled or aquiescent. Indeed, following your heart, even when it costs us personally and alienates us from the crowd.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Its so good to know that I'm still loved. I would never want to hijack your blog--its much too precious in the Kingdom of God. Just think of where your church would be without it.
Love and kisses,
Your Brady Boy
(I really only post since I know you read them personally.)
As we suspected, no action will be taken by the SBC to identify the predators behind the pulpits.
Very sad but completely expected.
"Glad to see you still love me so much."
"Anyway I'm glad I'm accepted back with such loving and close friends."
"Love & Kisses,"
"I still love you though..."
"Its so good to know that I'm still loved."
"Love and kisses,
Your Brady Boy".
Awww. Ya'll. Aint that sweet? Be nice to him. It's obvious that he's desperately reaching out for love.
oc.
"Just think of where your church would be without it."
Oh, is BBC not still your church, too, "brady"? Funny, but somehow I always suspected it never was.
Keep it up, "brady." You're good for the occasional laugh -- when I think to check my special folder.
That, my friends, is a perfect example of a blog troll. 'Nuff said.
"As we suspected, no action will be taken by the SBC to identify the predators behind the pulpits.
Story here.
Why even bother sending delegates to the Annual Convention if they are just going to be ignored?
I guess the SBC doesn't even want to listen to their own people. The SBC is getting too big for it's own britches. And they have finally proven that they don't care whether or not ministers keep theirs on.
Unbelievable!
More of today's story here and here.
Simply going by the DOJ database of convicted sexual predators would not have stopped Tommy Gilmore, Darrell Gilyard, or Steven Haney, nor would it keep PW or most of the other sickos profiled on Christa's website, including at this point the three named above, from gaining employment at another church today.
And you guys wonder why the people at BBC think you are such freaks...
oc said...
Why even bother sending delegates to the Annual Convention if they are just going to be ignored?
I guess the SBC doesn't even want to listen to their own people. The SBC is getting too big for it's own britches. And they have finally proven that they don't care whether or not ministers keep theirs on.
Unbelievable!
8:37 PM, June 10, 2008
Are we sure we're not talking about the United States Congress?
Seriously though...oc, your right. The big wigs don't care. All they see is $$$ in these positions, the people they serve be damned.
NASS: After seeing how the leaders of the SBC have decided to stick their heads in the sand again, it makes one wonder why go to church. As victims of clergy abuse this latest news is heart wrenching. Let alone to any victim of child sexual abuse. Where does a victim turn? Certainly it is not the Church.
And seeing how they have elected Johnny Hunt as president I really have to wonder who the head of their church is. I don’t think they even consider Scripture for one minute. Hunt is the same one that promoted his prodigy, Steve Flockhart and we all have seen how he flopped (sinned with blatant lies and fraud) only to be resurrected to the office of pastor once more with Hunt’s full blessings. Do I dare say that Paul Williams will be restored to the ministry? Just wait.
Notice they say use the “convicted” sexual predator database. Are they really serious? They know the facts. Usually victims wait for many years to report their abuse, often more than 30 years. By that time the statute of limitations for criminal prosecution has long run out.
This is a very sad day for the SBC. I urge members that are as mad as I am to withhold tithing to the SBC and let their pastor know why. I told mine yesterday and he was sadden but understood. I have contacted my Sunday School class members and urged them to do the same. Seems the only thing the SBC fears is money or lack of. For the record I am a long time SBC member that is sick of the posturing our leaders have taken. They are so worried about baptisms they water down sin and even allow very sick ministers to remain in a position of power. Shame on them, starting with Page, Patterson and Hunt. Morris Chapman is in a league of his on. How much more arrogant can they get?
I used to hear my pastor tell us that on the day of the rapture the pews of the Baptist churches will be full, well the pulpits will be too.
I am out of answers.
David Brown
SNAP director for Memphis and West Tennessee
davidbrown@bigriver.net
901/569-4500
....on the day of the rapture the pews of the Baptist churches will be full, well the pulpits will be too.
That seems to be the sad truth.
If ministers and Baptist leaders are not faithful in the small things
(how could sexual abuse ever be considered a small thing??)
then WHY would we trust them with anything.
David,
I agree. Not one cent of my money will ever go to anything connected with the SBC.
In fact, I just gave to a local organization that has a camp for abused kids...a place for the kids to relax and have fun for a time. It is faith based but not SBC.
David Brown said: "NASS: After seeing how the leaders of the SBC have decided to stick their heads in the sand again, it makes one wonder why go to church."
I've been wondering the same thing. After all, what is church??? What is it supposed to be? What is our part in it? What is the pastor's part?
Oh, I know....all these questions are answered in the Bible. The trouble is....it doesn't seem like *people* are following the Bible very much. Of course, by people....I am meaning pastors and leadership. And if pastors and leadership aren't following the Bible, will the congregation??? I hope so. Yet......are they? Are we???
Or....is the answer not the SBC church on the corner?
I'm trying to figure out what I am having the most doubts about.
I used to love going to church.
It's not my belief or faith that I'm questioning.....it's my thinking.
When did church become the center for our social activities???
Is that just in the south?
I have learned that alot of what we think of as church is our culture and what we got comfortable with.
Why do we all have to look the same?
How did we get the big huge churches and the super star ministers?
Why did we go from reverence and fear to it's all about emotions and showmanship and buzz words????
Why wasn't I one of the ones who could just go to GBC or Faith and feel right about continuing what I had always known?
What seems so bogus about church now???
and why did Dr Looney leave????
Maybe we've spent too much time flirting with the world, instead of dancing with the One who brung us.
yes, but even that was gradual.
What was church like before we made it so worldly?
Before we packaged everything in such a nice little one size fits all box????
Some of the very words or terms we know better than use now....we accepted them without question when Dr R was the pastor.....don't throw rocks at me.
I loved Dr R.
that's not my point.
I'm not angry...just asking questions.
I think its kinda like the frog in the pot of water.
At first the water would feel fine and the frog wouldn't realize theres a problem. However, the temperature is gradually increased, and as its increased, because of it being gradual, the frog doesn't notice till the water is eventually boiling. By then its too late.
Correction of broken link from last night.
THERE'S A NEW TOPIC IF YOU'D LIKE TO MOVE UP!
Thanks,
NBBCOF
To the party in Waco and anyone else searching for ES:
I think this is what you're looking for. Keep sniffing. You're on the right track.
Eddie Struble information
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