This article from the Nashville Scene by Elizabeth Ulrich takes a long, hard look at the problem of sexual abuse in the SBC and the SBC leadership's continuing refusal to deal with the problem.
It seemed likely last summer when the SBC voted to appoint a committee to "study" the problem that it was little more than a means of temporarily appeasing the critics while those in leadership continue to turn a blind eye to the problem. And now... it sounds as if that really is all there was to it.
SBCOutpost has a discussion of the article here.
February 18th: New article in the Nashville Scene.
Update: Paige Patterson is scheduled to preach at Bellevue Sunday morning, February 17th. Steve Gaines is scheduled to speak at the SWBTS chapel on April 17th. If it bothers you that these men, who have willfully ignored the problem of pedophile/sexual predator ministers in the SBC, are continuing to make the lucrative speaking circuit rounds, then let your voice be heard! Contact the media in Memphis and the SBC. This seems to be the SBC's answer to the problem -- a single page of links to outside agencies and resources.
Channel 3 (CBS)
Channel 3 Press Releases
Channel 5 (NBC)
Channel 13 (FOX)
Channel 24 (ABC)
Channel 24's Jeni DiPrizio who did the "Preacher Pads" report.
Commercial Appeal
James Dowd with the CA.
Wendi Thomas with the CA.
Submit a letter to the editor of the CA.
The Baptist Press
And while you're at it, you may want to drop a line to the pastor and pastor of students of the church that PW now is reported to be attending and ask them just how certain they are that their women and children are safe!
Dr. Ken Culver
Wayne Craig
625 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 625 Newer› Newest»concernedSBCer said...
Everyone else: I do agree that there is a fine line for Pastors to walk. They are called to be shepherds and are held to a higher accountability. By the same token, all believers are taught through the Holy Spirit and do deserve respect from the Pastor. There has to be a middle ground. What it is?
Even though you addressed the question to Everyone else, my response is that it is not "either/or" but "both/and". As I read oc's comment, he had the "both/and" just right. I can't see a single statement he made that isn't in keeping with Scripture.
junkster said...
JTB,
Re: your response to oc's post:
I think it would be more helpful for you to lovingly and patiently demonstrate from the Word what you believed to be incorrect about oc's statements than to just say you don't agree. Unless you don't consider it to be a very important matter.
JTB: I do think it is important matter but I didn't have time to go into detail.
And junk, please don't tell me how to respond to a post. Reading some of your posts here and over at Brattons over the months, love and patience hasn't always been one of your strong points.
OC said....
Well,JTB, with all due respect...
Number one. I wasn't looking for anyone to agree with me. I don't care if my opinion is agreeable or not, if I think it's right, I'm still going to express it. Can you respect that?
Number two. I wasn't writing Scripture.
Number three. Look what's happening in the pulpit today. Maybe you should take those pages you may have to rip out and give those to some pastors. I think they are missing those pages.
Get my drift?
JTB - 1) I can respect that.
2) writing or using.
3) I could rip the pages out and give it to them but as you know, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. As frustrating as things are, attacking preachers isn't going to help anything. Prayer for God to expose the wolfs in sheeps clothing staying in the word ourselves will go a whole lot farther. I would hope that all the junk going on now days is a wakeup call to the believer that the last days are here & Jesus is coming soon. OC, the bible teaches that the road we follow is the narrow way, as you can see...it is alot narrower than most think it is.
I do get your drift. Keep your head up and your eye towards the eastern sky!
JTB,
I'd really like to see your thoughts on specifically what you disagreed with on oc's posts, if you get the time. I really can't see anything not in line with Scripture in it. He certainly wasn't "attacking preachers".
I wasn't "telling" you how to respond, I was making a suggestion. I realize I may have made comments that you or others would consider lacking in love and patience -- it is probably easier for me to see that in the remarks of others (like yours to me) than in my own. I am open to public correction if there is something I've said that I should address.
But if we all waited until we were faultless in an area to ever make a comment or offer an opinion or advice, there would be no blogging ... or preaching, or teaching, or counseling, or ...
Junk: I agree....it is a both/and. I guess I'm puzzled because it seems as if we are seeing very little of the both/and in today's pulpits. That bothers me. I don't understand why/how things seems to have changed so much.
For those of you who have been through seminary.....is that both/and theology taught?
JTB: Come, Lord Jesus, Come....I'm sure ready to hear that trumpet!
Satan is attacking the church with a full-fledged attack in these last of the Last Days. I see two major problems that are aiding and abetting him:
1. Apathy and lack of discernment
among the general membership.
Christians no longer want to
take time to study the Word
themselves - to read it,
meditate on it, memorize it,
pray it, obey it! They would
rather someone else spoonfeed
them the "milk" of the word -
nothing too "meaty" so they
will not be confronted with sin
or bother with repentance or
spiritual growth. It's all so
bothersome and makes one feel
guilty instead of feeling good.
Thus, they stay immature and
can be easily deceived. Like
children, they are self-centered
and react on an emotional level.
Christian leaders who lack
integrity and tend to abuse the
power of their positions will
take advantage of these
deficiencies among the body of
Christ. Unscrupulous pastors
and/or their leadership must be
held accountable.
2. On the other hand, there are
those within the body who do
not respect those in spiritual
authority over them. The
Scripture clearly tells us we
are to honor our spiritual
leaders and pray for them. We
are to support them and
encourage them. A pastor must
have the freedom to lead his
flock without being ham-strung
by those who think
it is "their" church - not God's
church. God set His church up to
be a theocracy - not
a democracy. Yes, there is the
priesthood of the believer but
God in His wisdom set
authorities over us in the
church - just as He has in
every area of our lives to
prevent anarchy. The
church does not own
the pastor - God owns him.
Bottom line, the church is becoming weak and impotent because the Word is being ignored and watered down,the world has been invited into the church so that now the church looks and acts like the world - all in the name of "out-reach that must conform to the present culture,"
and the love of Christ has been
set aside due to the selfish
"I demand my rights!" of
both sheep and shepherds. As
Dr. Rogers used to say:
"The heart of the problem is the
human heart." And the Lord warns in His Word: "A house divided
cannot stand"(Mark 3:25).
Oh happy day! Memphis mayor Willie Herenton is stepping down!
This is not a joke!
It's no joke!
The catch? He's staying until after he pushes the next budget through which he has said will contain a hefty property tax.
concernedSBCer said...
It's no joke!
The catch? He's staying until after he pushes the next budget through which he has said will contain a hefty property tax.
5:54 PM, March 20, 2008
Ding Dong the Witch is dead....sorta. And Channel 13 is reporting he's stepping down so he can become Superintendent of the schools again. Guess he wants to finish the destruction he started 20+ years ago.
Micah 6:8
He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
Ecclesiastes 3:16
And I saw something else under the sun: In the place of judgment—wickedness was there, in the place of justice—wickedness was there.
Isaiah 10:1-2
Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless.
Luke 11:42
"Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.
Woe?
JTB said:
"And junk, please don't tell me how to respond to a post. Reading some of your posts here and over at Brattons over the months, love and patience hasn't always been one of your strong points."
oc says:
JTB. Wrong. Those posts without patience or love you are talking about were mine, not Junk's. You need to be more careful before you disparage someone. I think you are confused, and owe Junk an apology. You should be tattling on me, not Junk.
Meanwhile, I have repented, He has forgiven me, and the Lord is working on me, with me, and in me to be a more patient and more loving child of God.
But JTB, thankyou for the compliment of confusing me with being Junk. I am HONORED by the mistaken identity.
Junk: I have no idea how that happened, but I am sorry. Sorta. :)
32yrs@bbc said...
2. On the other hand, there are
those within the body who do
not respect those in spiritual
authority over them. The
Scripture clearly tells us we
are to honor our spiritual
leaders and pray for them. We
are to support them and
encourage them. A pastor must
have the freedom to lead his
flock without being ham-strung
by those who think
it is "their" church - not God's
church.
Interesting that you say it is not the members' church, but God's church, yet you say is it not God's flock, but the pastor's ("his flock").
But I can agree with your general point, so long as "spiritual leaders" is meant in the sense that Jesus taught His disciples about leadership -- that the last shall be first, that the least shall be the greatest, that the servant shall be the leader. So-called leaders who lord their position over God's people demonstrate that they are not spiritually mature, and thus they forfeit their claim to spiritual authority. The authority inheres in godliness, not in title or position.
I would go so far as to say that NO man has spiritual authority over me. I'm not going to give in on that. My "spirit" belongs to the One who created it. He alone is the authority of it.
Maybe I'm not understanding the definition of authority in this instance. But I'm not willing to give myself away to someone who is less than the Almighty.
oc,
Thanks for the support. But I would not be surprised to find that I'd written things that came across as (or actually were) lacking love and patience. I know my heart and how frequently I fall short of God's mark in those areas. So even if it turned out that everything I had ever written was loving and patient, all that would mean is that I had not written all that was in my heart. In truth, the worst things any human could think about me and my sins are nothing compared to the reality of those sins in God's sight.
SIGH.
I'm disillusioned.
Do we really need church?
Present company aside, I've about had all the " Christians" i can tolerate in one lifetime.
They are no different than the secular world.
SOLT: I've had the same thoughts. I've been wondering....what does God want from us with regard to church?
sickofthelies said...
SIGH.
I'm disillusioned.
Do we really need church?
Present company aside, I've about had all the " Christians" i can tolerate in one lifetime.
They are no different than the secular world
JTB - Hang in there SOL. It is easy to disillutioned but take heart, Jesus will sort it all out soon.
We are the church so I would say yes, we do need it. Besides, it is God's plan for His people. Shame some have tried to ruin it.
Instead of Christians influencing the world, the world is influencing Christians.
Christians are worldly now which is why most of our churches are in disarry.
God, the bible, church, seems to be an afterthought for most christians now days. They go throught the motions but lack the power of the Holy Spirit.
Some don't even know that the Holy Spirit have left some churches.
Boy will they be surprised when they stand before the Lord!
I"m tired of hateful people, pretending to be Christians, and acting like they own the church they are attending.
They treat it like a country club and you must get past them in order to " join".
There is no place to heal. There's just more hateful people, with their own agenda.
If you are related to the wrong person, you are not welcome.
If you threaten someone's
"secret" upon which they have built their 'house of cards' by your mere presence, you are discouraged from attending.
The truth has a power all its own, and as people try to contain the truth, it seeps out. What is done in the dark will be made light.
People make stupid choices, and then blame others when those choices come to light.
I"m so sick of Christians.
I wish Dr. Rogers were here, so that I could talk to him.
When church is painful, are we still required to go?
SOLT: Or forgiveness becomes so easy and expected that no one is held accoutable for their actions.....and the innocent parties suffer instead....
And when you are in church among hundereds of other Christians...you still feel alone.
And maybe a pastor preaches that if you aren't in church three times a week, you are backsliding.
But what about if your relationship with God is strong, but church is painful?
Aren't church and God two different things?
Sorry for the long post...just thought this was good.
2 thieves represent all mankind
Posted on Mar 20, 2008 | by Lauren Crane
WAKE FOREST, N.C. (BP)--All humanity is represented by one of the two thieves who were crucified alongside Jesus.
Buddy Gray, voicing that assessment in a chapel message at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, noted there was something "very different" about the two criminals: "That is, how they come to view Jesus Christ."
Gray, pastor of Hunter Street Baptist Church in Birmingham and a former president of the Alabama Baptist State Convention, noted the similarity between the two thieves and all humanity: "We are all thieves and have robbed God of His glory."
The first criminal, Gray said, is the one who doesn't care about Christ as the Messiah; he only wants his suffering to end. He had no remorse for his sin, only deep distress over what his sin was costing him.
"He does not want forgiveness, he only wants escape," Gray said in a message from Luke 23:32-43.
"There are a lot of people who are like this man. They want to avoid the suffering in their lives. They want to avoid all of the crosses they may have to bear. There are many people in churches who are like this one man. They want escape, but not forgiveness," Gray said.
"In America especially, we have a very distorted Gospel," Gray continued. "We tell people, 'You just come to Jesus and He will make your family better. You come to Jesus and He will straighten up your finances. Just come to Jesus and He will bless you. That is not the Gospel. That will not save people; it will only damn people."
The first criminal on the cross rejects Jesus and His salvation, Gray added, because he thinks it is all about him, a problem that is at the heart of his sin.
However, the second thief begins to have his heart softened by Jesus, Gray said. As the man heard Jesus repeating, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do," he began to think, "Maybe this man can forgive me."
This man, Gray said, had the appropriate heart attitude.
"If you're going to come to Christ, there must be the attitude in your heart, 'I fear God.'
"Without fear of God, I do not believe you can seriously turn to Jesus in faith. All you will ever see Jesus as is an add-on to your life. He's optional. You think, 'I'll add Him because He can make my business better, my sex life better, my finances better. He'll make me happier. I'll have my best life now,'" Gray said.
"If there is no fear of the Holy Creator God to whom one day we will give an account, you will never take Jesus seriously."
It is vital to see Jesus as holy and not make excuses for sin, but to confess guilt in real humility, as the second criminal did, Gray said.
"It matters who we think Jesus is. He alone is worthy of faith and my allegiance. He went to the cross not because he was guilty, but because we were guilty," Gray said.
The second thief, after assessing his situation and realizing the mess he was in and the coming of Jesus' Kingdom, called out to God for forgiveness and to be saved. Gray said it was a simple prayer, "Jesus, save me."
"Through the eyes of faith, this man trusts Jesus. That is what salvation is all about," Gray said.
The criminal's belief and complete trust in immediate salvation "cuts through a lot of false theology," Gray added in his Feb. 19 message at Southeastern's Wake Forest, N.C., campus.
"This really is justification by faith alone. Notice there was no baptism, no communion, no confession, no last rites, no church membership, no good works, no praying a prayer, no walking an aisle. This man trusts in Christ alone.... All he can do is trust in the work of Jesus Christ, and Jesus says that is all that it takes."
Gray concluded: "There were two sinners. Both heard and saw the same Jesus. One is in paradise with Jesus. One is in a place of eternal isolation. This represents the entire world. Jesus Christ is the line of demarcation. Everyone in the world will be categorized as someone who was saved by Christ or someone who was not."
--30--
Lauren Crane is a writer for Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.
consernedsbcer said...
Aren't church and God two different things?
JTB - Well, you will always find God and church linked together but you won't always find God at church. Jesus died for the church, (that is you and me & all people). The bible teaches that the church is the Bride of Christ.
Like I said before, God the Holy Spirit has left many churches long ago.
Please don't give up. Not all churches have gone the way of the world. Jesus is still Lord.
JTB said..
Jesus died for the church, (that is you and me & all people).
JTB explains...what I mean is that all who have accepted Jesus as their savior is His church. Jesus died for all but not all are the church. Sort of like God is the Creator of all but not the Father of all.
Hope that clarifies.
I've said it once and I'll say it again. All of the hypocrasy among leaders in churches makes me want to spend my Sundays at the bowling alley mowing down pins than go to church.
Are we to subject ourselves to people on a regular basis who pretend to be Christians, yet are hateful right to your face, merely because you are related to someone that they don't like? Never even caring to get to know you? Just hate for the sake of hating? And trying to run you off so that all of their secrets will stay hidden.
Now their 'house of cards' is threatened.
There is no church in which to heal. That's a myth. It seems to me that churches are country clubs, with dressed up people, trying to be important in their own eyes, not God's. Ministers who refuse to hold the hateful people accountable.
Where are we to go when church is no longer a sanctuary and God's people are no different from the secular people that you go to church to try to get away from?
How much does God expect us to tolerate in the name of "fellowship"?
My husband has it right, I'm afraid:
" Catholics have it right. You dont' go to Sunday School, you attend a ceremony, don't talk to anyone, and when it's over you get the heck away from each other."
I'm sorry this is so depressing. I'm just really struggling. I am no longer seeing the need to "fellowship" with jerks who call themselves Christians.
Hey, SOTL! Maybe you need to make friends with the Choir Director? I found this and hoped you might find it a little funny:
Church Feud
There was a feud between the Pastor and the Choir Director of the
Local Southern Baptist Church.
It seems the first hint of trouble came when the Pastor preached on
"Dedicating Yourselves to Service" and the Choir Director chose to
sing: "I Shall Not Be Moved."
Trying to believe it was a coincidence, the Pastor put the incident behind him. The next Sunday he preached on "Giving." Afterwards, the choir squirmed as the director led them in the hymn: "Jesus Paid It All."
By this time, the Pastor was losing his temper. Sunday morning
attendance swelled as the tension between the two built.
A large crowd showed up the next week to hear his sermon on “The Sin
of Gossiping.” Would you believe the Choir Director selected the song: “I Love to Tell the Story?”
There was no turning back. The following Sunday the Pastor told the congregation that unless something changed, he was considering resignation. The entire church gasped when the Choir Director led them in: “Why Not Tonight?”
Truthfully, no one was surprised when the Pastor resigned a week later, explaining that Jesus had led him there and Jesus was leading him away.
The Choir Director could not resist: “What a Friend We Have in Jesus.”
_________________________________
Now some thoughts from God's Word:
In Matt. 16:18, Jesus says, "...I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."
Acts 20:28 speaks about "the church of God, which He bought with His own blood."
Wait a minute. Jesus will build His church, and He bought the church with His own blood?
Yes, we need the church, and the church needs you! The ones who irritate you may be baby Christians who don't know any better yet, or they may be Nicolaitans - just playing church.
"But you have this in your favor:
You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. (Revelation 2:6-7, NIV)
See THIS to read more about Nicolaitans...
Hang in there, SOTL. It's almost Friday, but Sunday's coming!
May this weekend bring you closer to the cross, and may you find a big rock rolled away!
((((((hugs))))))
Hang in there, SOTL. It's almost Friday, but Sunday's coming!
Yeah, I know, that's why I am fretting. I DREAD it.!!! I absolutely DREAD it!!
"On the other hand, there are
those within the body who do
not respect those in spiritual
authority over them."
For very good reasons, too, since they are NOT in 'authority' over anyone. Only Jesus Christ is our 'authority'.
We tend to confuse the spiritually mature who care for our souls as 'authorities'. They aren't. The earthly priests were done away with on the Cross. Jesus is our high priest now.
The reason we don't know this is because we rarely see a true spiritually mature person who only cares about our souls. They are quite rare in Christendom. There are a few on this blog. But, they have no man given title so we don't realize it. I thank God for them. You know who you are because Jesus knows YOU and you know HIM.
By the way, the WORD is the authority. Not the messenger.
God once used a donkey to deliver His Word.
Why don't I just slam my fingers with a hammer as a sacrifice instead of going to church?
That would be much easier.
Revelation 22:
10Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."
12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Woo Hoo ~ I can just hear Dr. Rogers' voice when I read those verses!
SOTL, Did you know that you don't have to "go to church" this Sunday? God would not mind if you and your DH worship Him at home by the CD player, reading His Word, and being blessed by communion with Him. You'd have 100% attendance, and the whole church would be saved! -grin-
Just "continue to do right; and... continue to be holy."
I will pray for y'all, that you will find JOY in the morning!
Tell your DH to put away the hammers!
just sayin'
hahah
DH doesn't know which end of the hammer to use...that would be MY job and MY hammer!!!
:)
Well then, quit swinging that thing around, would ya? You're gonna hurt someone! And don't run with pointy objects!
Sigh ~ This Mama's gotta get some sleep!
I will pray for y'all, SOTL. Church at home can be a good thing! We've been at it now for almost a year and a half. I dare you to try it Sunday!
I am asking God to give us wandering sheep a new church home. I want to get back in the fold, but I want a shepherd I can trust.
Pray!
"A pastor must
have the freedom to lead his
flock"
================
"His flock" in the sense of the flock God has placed him over. Of course, it is not the pastor's flock in the sense of ownership.
Moses is a good example of one who is placed in spiritual authority, (and Joshua who replaced him.) When the people rebelled and murmured in their tents, Moses said: "For the Lord hears your
murmurings which you murmur against
HIM: and who are we? Your murmurings are not against us, but against the LORD." (Ex. 16:8) God set up Moses to be the leader of His people; therefore, their complaints were ultimately against God who gave them Moses. If your argument is that this is O.T., remember the O.T.is a picture of how God now deals with His people spiritually today. The principle is the same. God always has those whom He chooses as leaders over His people. That is His plan. Those whom He has chosen are to have the heart of a servant - and are held to a higher degree of accountability in the sight of God.
"Feed the flock of God...taking the oversight of it, not by constraint but willingly; not for filthy lucre (greed) but of a ready mind. Neither as being lords
over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock"(I Pet.5:2,3)
If they take advantage of their
position; if they abuse their place of spiritual authority, you can be sure that in God's timing,
His judgment will be swift and sure.
"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
(Hebrews 10:31)
SOTL - I am sorry that you have been so deeply hurt by those who
claim the name of Christ. I'm sure the Lord Himself weeps with you.
But do not allow the hypocrites to keep you from corporate worship. The body of Christ needs one another - and not just on the Web.
Think about Jesus who was always in
the synagogues teaching on the Sabbath. Think of the opposition He experienced in those places of worship. And yet He knew the importance of persevering and being in His Father's house on the day set aside for corporate worship. He experienced much more
opposition and rejection than we ever could. But He set the example for us. And we are commanded in His Word:" Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together as is the manner of some, but exhort (encourage) one another, and so much the more,
as you see the Day approaching"
(Hebrews 10:25)
Dr. Rogers loved the church. If you could talk with him,I believe he would encourage you to be an overcomer by God's grace, and run with patience the race that has been set before you, looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of your faith who for the joy that was set before Him, endured the cross, despising the shame..."
(Hebrews 12:1b;2)
I also think he would encourage you to go to church not expecting so much to be blessed but to be a blessing to someone, and even more than that, to go to worship the Lord Jesus with others who love HIm
- and we are legion! -)
SOTL,
I feel your pain. There is a guy at church that I run into all the time. I sat with him at breakfast one morning and he asked me where I had been attending church, recognized me as new. I told him BBC. He frowned and soon after that just turned his back to me and started talking to another table.
Its sort of funny now, I see him all the time. He seems to be everywhere. Even greeting at the door. He always gets uncomfortable, turns away, won't hardly speak. Shifts his eyes away.
Now let me ask you a question. Should I let him or people like him keep me from obeying my Savior when He tells me to worship Him with all my heart, mind body and soul? Should I look at going to church as a sacrifice or an opportunity to show Him my love for Him and my willingness to be obedient? Even if people there shun me, look at me funny, or are just downright hateful.
Church today is full of folks that just don't know Jesus. If they did, his love would flow from them the same way it did from Him. Many people today just practice religion, part of the club you talk about and they are everywhere. That is not going to keep me from going and showing my love for my savior. And I am going to sing praises to Him when they play the music, regardless of whether I like the song or not. Its not my song, sung to me, but His and sung to His glory and honor.
Turn this thing around. Go first to honor Him and second to be an ambassador for Christ. Let His love shine through you.
John 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another. 18 If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you: A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. 21 But all these things they will do to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin, but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father. 25 But the word that is written in their Law must be fulfilled: They hated me without a cause. 26 But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. 27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning.
I know what y'all mean about Christians (particularly, it seems, those who call themselves Baptist) who treat others badly without it seeming to bother them. Just recently, when I offered some friendly advice to someone, his response was to publicly accuse me, in the presence of my friends, of specific unChristlike behavior -- and when questioned about it, rather than provide help or correction, he dismissively stated his words could apply to anyone. Go figure.
But I've done my share of shooting the wounded, too. I think Ezekiel's post (9:12 AM, March 21) is right on the mark.
Junk: I completely agree. I don't want to shoot any wounded; I'm just tired of being shot!
Junk,
I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Recently, I also have been involved in such a situation eerily much like that of which you speak. I guess it's epidemic.
Shooting the wounded?
Sometimes the other side might masqeuerade as being on our side. No matter.
I have it on good authority that the other side does NOT possess armor piercing bullets. So put on your armor.
Jussayin'.
oc.
And even under "friendly fire", our armor prevails.
And it was about the sixth hour.
"IT IS FINISHED".
And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook, and the rocks were split, and the tombs were opened, and many of the bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.
Thanks, oc, but I don't require specifics from JTB -- if he wants to provide examples in order to point me in the right direction, I'd welcome it. But it is not his responsibility to dig in and examine my past behavior and attempt to correct it; that falls on me. I do appreciate your support, though, bro.
Junkster,
I must admit, my request to him was not without some self interest. He made an attempt to spank me too. And like you, I too want to know how I have strayed scripturally in my 4:10 am post.
If I am wrong, I need to know.
I'm not content to just be told that I'm wrong, without having some guidance to correction. That would be cruel and worthless, and possibly just mean, and not in keeping with the attitude of the Lord Jesus Christ.
So I am waiting, along with you, for that answer.
oc,
Ooooooohhhh... I thought you were asking him to tell me when I had been lacking in love and patience. But you were talking about my original question, about what he thought was wrong with your post. Gotcha now. I need to keep in mind its not all about me! (Not always, anyway.) :)
By the way...
He lays lifeless in the tomb.
Despair is all we have...
Until the third day...
So hold on...
The third day is coming!
I suppose that coming from the
" he only did it once" attitude at BBC over to " I hate you because of who you are related to and I will do my utmost to run you off from here" attitude has just worn me down.
These people are not Christians. They are club members. And what's more, it's THEIR club, and THEY will choose who will be a member.
Jesus is merely a sidebar.
People live a life of lies and then are mad at ME when I show up, thinking that I have come to worship Jesus with other Christians. My presence convicts them of their lies, without ever saying one word. In order to continue their house of cards, it is IMPERATIVE that they get rid of me.
I am the sister of the exwife this man never had and i am Personna Non Gratta.
Why must people pretend to be something they are not? Do they not trust that their Christian Brothers and sisters will still accept them? Or must they pretend to have had a perfect life, free from past mistakes and baggage?
It's amazing isn't it? The truth truly has a power all its own.
To SOTL: My heart bleeds for you. I have been there. I was a 23 year member of BBC, brought my children up there. I loved BBC with all my heart.
I have moved on to another church - a church that has tremendous healing qualities. It is a church where the pastor and the people understand the hurt, embrace you, love you and weep with you. It is a church where the focus is Jesus, saving lost souls, mission work and loving the people of the church (others as ourselves). I have never felt so overwhelmingly loved by a congregation in my entire life (66 years)!!!
Business meetings are open for questions and there is complete transparency and complete openess. NOTHING is hidden! How refreshing!!
I cannot say enough wonderful things about the pastor, who loved and respected Adrian Rogers!! Our pastor is a TRUE servant being there only to serve the Lord and his bride, the church. He stated recently to someone "Don't let this out, but I would preach for free." He preaches because he is CALLED to preach, not paid to preach.
I could go on and on. But, SOTL, don't let the present situation at BBC weaken your faith and trust.
If you want to know more about the church that heals, please email me.
Our church says "Welcome home". And, this has been like our second home since we joined in Dec., 2007.
Come, let us wrap our arms around you, receive you home, and love you like Christ intended you to be loved.
REBORN
SOTL: You are right....lies usually have a way of coming back to haunt. I know you are in a very difficult situation, but you are not the one at fault. Try to let them do the squirming, you hold your head high. The Truth always wins out in the end.
:)
SOTL,
In one way or another, He shows us who the pharisees are. Just because we are in the NT church doesn't mean we don't have pharisees.
1 Corinthians 11:19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.
See also these references: Especially De and 2 Co 13:5-7.
11 19
there.
Mt 18:7, Lu 17:1, Ac 20:30, 1Ti 4:1, 2, 2Pe 2:1, 2,
heresies. or, sects.
Ac 5:17, 15:5, 24:5, 14, 26:5, 28:22, Ga 5:20, Tit 3:10,
which.
De 13:3, Lu 2:35, 2Co 13:5-7,
1Jo 2:19
reborn,
There's no e-mail address in your profile for SOTL to be able to contact you!
reborn,
It sort of sounds like you're describing the same church SOTL is talking about. (And it's not BBC.)
This was from a mail-out from Christ United Methodist Church:
"You often hear about scandals, but what about all the good in sports?
Did you know that over 96% of all Americans either watch, read, or participate in sports monthly; and over 70% do it at least once a week!
Tony Dungy is coming to Christ Methodist Church on Tuesday, March 25 at 7:00 PM and you are invited to join us. Tony Dungy is a man who knows how to win on the field of play while enjoying a victory of the heart that permeates sports and life and leads to ultimate victory. The evening is free of charge, and may just change your life.
Sports provides an opportunity to reach pre-Christian for Christ and to use sports for his Glory! It provides a place to meet the lost on their ground, at a place where they are. Today's modern heroes are usually not artists, politicians, or educators. They are popularized world class athletes. Come hear Tony share how his relationship with Christ has helped him cope with a variety of difficulties, both professionally and personally."
My question: Pre-Christian? That's a new one on me. Not unbeliever? Not unsaved? Not lost? Pre-Christian.
I'm (almost) speechless. And for those of you that know me.....that's rare.
Yep. Rare alright. Have heard Tony's witness. Love it.
And more rare, One is coming forth from the dead! Sunday is coming, and no one can stop it!
Yeah, concernedsbcer...
the "preChristian" is just that.
Not saved yet, and if not saved, Destined to hell.
"PreChristian" makes me feel quite a bit different than being certain that someone is going to hell.
It's that "if, maybe" feel that let's me feel that I can sleep well. And all is well with the world...
PreChristian. How very convenient to our souls.
Cold. Lifeless. His body just lays there... DEAD. He waa killed yesterday...we saw him die. The spear went right into his heart. The water and blood ran, and it proved it.. said it all...
The future of those who trusted in Him is...well... why would you put your trust in a dead man?
But He said He would come back...
He said He would come back...
So we wait for tomorrow...
"A pastor must
have the freedom to lead his
flock without being ham-strung
by those who think
it is "their" church - not God's
church."
Interesting fact: The word 'Pastor' is used once in the NT in Eph and is plural along with other functions in the church that are plural.
SOTL,
I think that reborn and I have joined the same fellowship. If you know tn_lizzy2000 she can share my email with you.
And to those who know me and my circumstances.... My cup continues to runneth over. What a day that will be when we too will see Jesus!
Thank you so much for your prayers.
padroc
padroc,
Welcome back! We've missed you.
"Reborn" and SOTL are not members of your church, but I'll pass along your e-mail address to SOTL.
Stay strong, padroc. May the Lord continue to give you strength during this difficult time.
Padroc: You remain in our prayers and we hope to see you at the next bowling party, if you are up to it.
(((((( Padroc))))))
HUGS
Padroc...
Love you brother.
Jussayin'...:)
HE HAS RISEN!
And the angel answered and said to the women, "Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified. He is not here, for He has risen. Come see the place where He was lying. And go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you."
And they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy and ran to report it to the disciples.
And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshipped Him.
Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid; go and take word to My brethren to leave for Galilee, and there they shall see Me."
HE IS ALIVE!!!
From LWF today:
BIBLE MEDITATION:
“He is not here: for He is risen.” Matthew 28:6
DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT:
It is a disturbing truth that Jesus Christ literally came out of the grave. You just can’t be neutral about the resurrection. If you are a thinking person, you’re going to have to face the fact of the resurrection. Either it is true or it is not true. Either He came out of that grave or He did not. Now which side are you on? You can’t just ball it all up and say, “It doesn’t really make any difference. Let’s just put our arms around everybody. We all believe the same thing.” No, no, no! When you take a stand for truth, you’re going to have a head on collision with the darkness that doesn’t want the light shining in!
That seems to me just what we've all been doing all these long, painful months.....standing for TRUTH.
If Jesus will die for us, we MUST stand for Him.
SOTL: Your recent comments really struck my heart. I understand how you feel. I don't go to church ever, except for funerals, not even on Easter Sunday. I will worship God in other ways.
Since I've been dealing with the Baptist clergy sex abuse issue over the past couple years, I have encountered more hatefulness and deliberate hurtfulness than I could possibly have imagined. And most of it from Southern Baptist pastors and leaders.
I no longer have a clue of what to make of it or what to think of it. It is what it is, and I've seen too much of it.
Happy Easter to all of you! I hope the wonder of it all will find a place in your hearts despite all the hatefulness (and in my own heart as well). And in whatever we can, may we all find a spirit of renewal.
Concernedsbcer said:
If Jesus will die for us, we MUST stand for Him.
oc says:
He not only died for us, He lives for us too!!!!
And the angel answered and said to the women, "Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified. He is not here, for He has risen. Come see the place where He was lying. And go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you."
And they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy and ran to report it to the disciples.
If Paige Patterson had been there, would he have listened to women?
Christa,
As I see... what He has told me...
As I see, what man has told me...
Don't be confused. There are facts. There are feelings. The One I love won't lie to you.
Fact:
He has risen! Not for Himself. But for me and you!
And there will be justice. No, I'm not counting on it for this morning. But you will see. He will make things right. Just be patient. Just be faithful.
Christa, He knows. Yes, He does.
NASS said:
If Paige Patterson had been there, would he have listened to women?
oc says:
Exactly my point. Well, one of my points anyway...
Listen dudes. Time for some humility.
Read the Gospels. If it weren't for women, the Good News would never have been spread nor said.
It could have died at the entrance to the tomb.
Funny, isn't it? God knew it beforehand. But He made women the instruments of His victory and grace. Now all of us "big shot he- man dudes" need to go back to our cave and scratch ourselves...
We got some thinkin' to do...
Yeah, and don't forget your clubs. :-)
Just a thought...
It is easier to die, than to live.
I've wanted to lay it down several times. Wanting to get it over with. For me.
But He died. For you. For me. And He lives again! Going through the pain again. But He's not concerned for Himself. He cares for you!
So talk to Him. He's been through life. He's been through death. And back again. He knows. He knows.
Christa,
Thank you for that!!! I am so tired of my friends expecting me to be in church...and expecting me to think that it will somehow be better.
It's never better.
You understand that scorn for the sake of scorn hits a place in our heart that has never healed and is so deep that there are no words to describe it.
When someone who has never known me looks at me with utter disgust becuase of her own agenda, it is crippling.
People will say, " go up to her and give her a big hug"...
??????????????????????????????????
They just dont get it. And it is isolating. I'm glad you understand.
Yet, here I go this morning, trotting off to church, where if I have picked the wrong service out of a choice of 4, I will, no doubt, be accused of stalking.
There is no joy in this. I would have more joy staying home,and watching Dr. Rogers, but my family wants to go to church, so here I go.
Church IS the battle ground, thru no fault of my own. Please pray for me.
From today's BellevueToday:
HIS Precinct Bible Fellowship Group
Phil Weatherwax will begin a new Bible Fellowship group on Sunday mornings at 8:00 a.m. in W282 beginning April 6 called HIS Precinct.
This class is designed to reach out to law enforcement officers and their spouses.
Well, there's a scary thought! The author of the letters which were the subject of this thread leading law enforcement officers. Will they pass out complimentary handcuffs at the door?
"Will they pass out complimentary handcuffs at the door?"
Maybe. Or maybe they will Mace you instead of Grace you. Hope you have a choice. Uh, what colors are you wearing...?
SOTL: I do understand, and you're right that most "just don't get it." I weep with you. I grieve with you. You will be in my thoughts and prayers.
Christa,
Thanks!!!
I'm home, the doors are locked, I'm safe, and I'm going to bed and pull the covers up over my head.
HE'S ALIVE!!!!
"And to those who know me and my circumstances.... My cup continues to runneth over. What a day that will be when we too will see Jesus!"
Padroc, Is it not incredible that one who has never met you but loves you because of His Name, lifts you up in prayer? Such are the mysteries of our Glorious Savior.
There are backchannels of prayer and encouragement for one another here that make me weep for joy.
Phil 1:3 to all of you.
"There are backchannels of prayer and encouragement for one another here that make me weep for joy."
Lin,
Thanks for saying that. I wanted to, but couldn't find the words.
Thank you.
I am trusting that today, your Rock got Rolled.
I had an epiphany today in Sunday School. Of course, we were using Lifeway material so we didn't talk about the resurrection exactly...we talked about the power God has and how we need to use his power in all ways. Also the verse about moving mountains with faith the size of a mustard seed was brought up. So anyway, the discussion started out kinda like "we don't use God's power to do great things and we should." My reply was that I had no idea what great things I was supposed to do or even how to go about it. A girl in my class spoke up and said this: "Who are Billy Graham's parents?" After several minutes of silence I said, "Mr. and Mrs. Graham?" She made the point that Billy Graham's Mom made him pb&j sandwiches, tied his shoes, etc. Was she doing a great thing? Yes! Then she asked....and this is GOOD: "What is YOUR mountain?" God only expects us to move the mountains that have been placed before us. *TA DA* EXACTLY. I'm not Lottie Moon or Corrie Ten Boom or Billy Graham. I'm just a concerned person seeking to do the best I can in the situation I am in. God can and does move mountains for me! They just aren't Mt. Everest to most people. But they are my mountains. Therefore, the power I receive from the Holy Spirit is for me and for the jobs he has given me to do. No one else can judge the power I am given or the mountains that are moved on my behalf because it's between me and God.
I'm sure the rest of you brilliant folks have already hashed this out, but for me....it was an eye-opening experience that God is the only one who judges the heart exclusively. And that we are each given our own mountains to move. And guess what? My mountain is not better than yours (and visa versa)! On God's scale, it's all equal.
"I am trusting that today, your Rock got Rolled."
oc, it rolled, but there was nobody there. Get it? No body!
I heard of a Dad who asked his little girl if she knew what Easter was all about. She jumped up, with her arms spread out wide and yelled, "SURPRISE!"
hee hee ~ I think she's got it!
SOTL and Christa, I pray for real Christian fellowship for y'all. So much has been taken from you. I pray for peace for you and acceptance from others.
I heard today that there is no bright morning of Easter without the dark night of calvary. We won't see who Jesus really is unless we see His wounds.
You two represent many others who are living in the dark night and are wounded. But your bright morning is coming. There may be no justice yet, but every knee will eventually bow before the Judgment.
I praise God that you two dear ladies are daughters of the King! Your Father will make all things work together for good.
I love the people represented by our blog names, and pray that God will bless each family here.
Padroc, I wonder what an Easter sunrise looks like from Heaven? I will certainly share with SOTL and reborn... Thank you!
Sweet dream, y'all!
Tn Lizzie said,
oc said,
"I am trusting that today, your Rock got Rolled."
oc, it rolled, but there was nobody there. Get it? No body!"
Yeah Lizzie, He was counting on that...
Has anyone told you that you write beautifully? I wish I could express things the way you do.
Keep posting. He's using you, in great ways.
Concernedsbcer,
Yeah. Moving mountains. Seen Him do it with you.
How about raising kids in this day and age who truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and believe the Gospel because they have seen you live it?
How about putting the hand to the plow and living out your faith, although there are many days that giving up would have seemed to be the more prudent thing to do? But you didn't, and you haven't.
How about your brothers and sisters in Christ who sometimes just want to give up? But you encouraged them beyond their will, to exercise His will instead?
Mountains? Yes, mountains.
Your epiphany in Sunday School?
Well, let me tell you this sister. You were moving mountains with Jesus far before you even knew it.
Amazing Grace
Click on it, and be amazed! :o)
I agree with you OC...on both concernedbbcer and tn_lizzie. And you don't do so poorly yourself.
About Amazing Grace...that was just about more than I could handle! Brought tears!!! You will have to watch/listen to The Lord's Prayer too.
Thanks...
Hey All, Just wanted to say---that for those of us who have walked away tail dragging, it never got better. Nothing good ever came out of our NEW old church and no one missed or "forgave" us. It is sad to be at Bellevue as well as sad not to be there. And the people who are there are dug in and unwilling to care or compromise, most are engulfed in new feelings of "power" as if they see a truth at Bellevue we are to ignorant to see. The pecking order has been rearranged to compliment the member with seniority, no matter how mean spirited they are. Good Bye to the bloggers and the church and the innocence that church can heal and uplift. New phase = Understanding why so many people hate church and anything to do with it. Neither Bellevue or this blog has a place for quiet deserters who will never forget, but need to forgive and move on. But i know it is you who stands correct on the issues. It sadly never mattered.
Ima,
There are some graceful and loving people here. And they love, and they forgive. And they remind of Jesus.
I am humbled by your graciousness. Thank you.
concernedsbcer....
Your 9:19 PM, March 23, 2008 post was very good.
Thanks for sharing it.
Ya'll, please keep my neice in your prayers. She just overdosed on Ambien and we're extremely worried (And yes, we did call 911)
I've been thinking.....I know we have moved past Bellevue....but the issues at BBC are still viable concerns since, unfortunately, they appear to be not just at BBC. There is still a concern about the direction of the SBC. There is still an established "good ole boys" network. There are still displaced believers wanting/needing traditional worship options that, alas and alack, are few and far between. There are still major concerns about integrity in the pulpit, about "callings" instead of "careers" and about shepherds truly loving their sheep.
So......
What now?
I don't know bbcer...but I hate to see this blog die. It has been a lighthouse for many, and has helped many of us find a better place even if it has only been through conversation and uplifting one another. Just think of the prayers that have been said and answered. I really hate to see everybody just turn and walk away into the sunset at this point. Think of the friendships that have been made, those who have bonded through Christ Jesus by means of this blog.
First of all, I'd suggest that we all be in prayer as to what God would have us do.
What ideas do you have floating around in the intelligent head of yours, BB?
Ima: I couldn't agree more with everything you said.
Prayer is the first step, for sure. There are so many Godly people that have a home here on this blog, I'm sure there are many solid ideas, and discussion topics. Let's communicate and see what comes up.
:)
I'm with you...
I have really enjoyed our conversations about scripture. One thing that keeps bothering me is how can Christians act like they are? Why do we assume that someone is saved just because they are in a leadership position or have a Christian title? (GASP...I know, I know)
I know we cannot judge salvation but what about fruit? How can we continue to turn our heads away and act like all the behavior and scandal it is no big deal.
I can just see what power, fame, influence does to leaders as churches grow larger and others in the entities get more power.
As women, no one would listen to us anymore in the SBC, anyway. They have been trained to think women are ignorant, deceived and should keep their mouths shut.
If this blog weren't making an impact on people then it would not have been spoken against in the pulpit and SS classes and by all those who came on here declaring us evil.
Sure we've gone way past the BBC scandal and the heart break so many of us experienced...many of our old blog friends have gotten settled in churches and left the blog.
Many stiill can't go to church.
We all have our gifts to share....and we have.
We are a community of believers, sisters and brothers, and dear friends.
We have had deep theology discussions, we have comforted and protected one another,we have exposed lies and manipulation of scriptures...and misuse of money and power.
ONLY because of those that would have our blog die has it become difficult for us to keep running discussions.
So my vote is we don't let the blog die...
we move forward with our plans for an official small Bible study group(just please not Calvanism or Revelation!)....
we continue to have our group email discussions and blog discussions.....and those wild and crazy bowling parties!!!!
Hey, I'm not going away. I kinda like ya'll. Just a little...:)
(actually, I love you.)
I would like to see some discussion on a topic that some Christians seem to be an expert on; yet others, such as myself, seem to struggle hard with.
Let's talk about God's will. What does that mean? How do you know it? Is it some kind of "secret formula" only the "super spiritual" can walk in?
I have heard some say that if you aren't happy, then you aren't in God's will. I have heard some say that if you aren't "prosperous" (ie money, big house, car, status, etc.), then you must not be following God's will.
I have heard some say that if your earthly life doesn't resemble perfection, with all being blissful all the time, perfect spouse, perfect children, perfect job, etc, then you are out of step with God.
And I have heard all this. I will be the first to tell you. If following His will is supposed to translate into bliss here on earth, then I've failed. My life doesn't resemble Heaven at all. And I won't fake it and I won't tell anyone that all is well in "oc" land. Oh, I have my glimpses of Heaven, but they are few and far between. (Some of them have been from those who post on this blog.)
But I think it is ok. Because of what I see in the Scriptures, how the prophets suffered,and died, how John the Baptist suffered,and died, how the apostles suffered,and died, HOW JESUS SUFFERED; and died, weren't they all following God's will?
It doesn't look "profitable" or filled with "Heavenly comfort" to me. But I also will concede that I myself have not suffered to the point of death. That may be the difference.
Now tell me about God's will being easy. Tell me about the way God has given you all you wanted, and how he has cushioned you from all the heartbreaks of life. How life is so easy now...
Then I will tell you this. You are either lying about your conversion, or you may be saved and just aren't following Him. Do you think "dying daily" is supposed to feel good? I'm not saying that there is no joy in being His follower, because we are to consider it all joy. But veteran Christians know, that joy doesn't necessarily mean a "good feeling."
If you "feel good" in your standing before God all the time, well, in my opinion, you are lying, therefore you are not "dying." Lying, and not dying.
Neither one is His will.
Just a thought.
Tell me something guys...why haven't you pulled together and started your own church? Surely you had enough people when the resistors started pulling out...or were being forced out. Is it too late for that now?
In the immortal words of Charleton Heston....they will have to pry this keyboard from my cold dead hand before I go away.
One thing I've noticed in today's church (At least the ones I've been to). No one really cares about people. Lets say Joe Smith goes to a church in town. Yeah, they will kiss your butt and be all goody goody two shoes putting on a front. But once you join, they don't care about you. Thats why I no longer go to church. I'd rather be at a bowling alley than deal with that junk.
OC...
From personal experience and from scripture....I don't believe there is the "happy Christian" formula.
I AM glad for people that seem to glide thru their life on this earth.
But most of us go thru and see so much sorrow and suffering,,,maybe we wouldn't see God's grace if things were easy?
Maybe we cherish our joyful moments more because we do understand suffering?
Maybe because of trauma some of us suffered early in life...we just respond differently to life and pain and even happiness???
I can't say I am "happy" very often....but I so appreciate the moments of clarity, the moments when God shows himself so clearly to me....the very few moments when I feel "in place".
but... I don't get emails or voices from God to know His will....
we study His Word and do all we understand to do.
We are here to glorify God...to know Him and to love Him.....as CSBCer pointed out to us.....sometimes that is doing the next thing we need to do.
But maybe we can show kindness to the check out person at Krogers or the crippled man on the airplane....or go out of our way to affirm and encourage someone that is alone and afraid.
We are missionaries and ambassadors right where we are...everyday.
We especially need to look out for each other.
The last time I fell into that pit of despair...it didn't take me long to crawl out because I had 2 dear friends....who I would have never known if not for the blog....standing at the top of the pit....just quietly letting me know that I wasn't alone or stuck in the pit.
As soon as I could reach up..they helped me out...
our big churches have become such social parties and mask balls that you have to go to the hospital or worse to have church friends become aware of what your burden or joy is.....not with our little community.
We keep pretty good tabs on each other.
I saw today on my email that when one of our dear friends lost his loved one recently and we were all communicating our plans...I had 70 emails on one "thread"....so many different people giving their input and showing interest.
I had many more emails from everyone but that one conversation had 70 different eamils from all of you.
We acted like a church.
GMommy: You are right. We did.
And it felt good. And right.
gmommy,
Exactly. And there it is. I will tell you what I think of God's will, as I see it from Genesis through Revelation. It is sacrifice. That's what I see in the Scriptures. The sacrifice of our "selves". Once we are set free from our "selves", and give ourselves to Him, we are in God's will. Free to sacrifice ourselves to God, free to sacrifice for others. That to me is the soul set free. What higher purpose is there for anyone in this world? "Love God with all your heart and all your soul, and all your mind. And love your neighbor as yourself."
The emphasis is not on "self", but on love. Love of God, love of others. And love is sacrifice. Not a feeling. Even though that love may make us feel good, it feels good to the saints only because it is godly and ordained by Him. That love is not for feeling's sake, but an out-pouring of the love of God has shown to us. We are to show it to Him and to others. And we admit it is not of us, but it His doing.
God showed that love definitely and finally in the sacrifice of His Son. And the Son's life, and death, and resurrection, modeled it for us. And we are to love in such a way. All of Jesus life, death, and resurrection was a sacrifice. The ultimate sacrifice.
That was pure love. And we are to be like Him.
And guess what else I think? As you have so well put it, many here on this blog have shown Christ's love to each other. But not just to each other. The "world" sees it too. I think it's another good reason to continue in this fellowship, in my opinion.
Let's talk about God's will.
Romans 8:29
"But most of us go thru and see so much sorrow and suffering,,,maybe we wouldn't see God's grace if things were easy?"
I ask myself if I would rather have my reward now or later. :o)
Why this sudden talk and concern about this blog possibly dying? Did I miss something? Seems like there are plenty of life signs to me!
If you want to see a truly dead blog, go take a look at
The Bratton Report.
"Let's talk about God's will.
Romans 8:29"
And what shall we say about that verse as far as His will is concerned?
"29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers"
His will is for us to Bear the Image of Christ in all things. We are to be conformed to the likeness of His son.
Not Calvin
Not Rick Warren
Not Steve Gaines
Not Paige Patterson
Not Al Mohler
But Jesus Christ!
Lin,
AMEN!
That is what His will declared. His "decretive" will. That is what He has decreed in Scripture.
No question, no argument.
But what about His "permissive" will? How do we discern that?
There are many situations that aren't addressed in Scripture specifically. Such as, should I take this job?
Should I buy this car? Should I marry this person?
We have no excuse for not following God's will as set forth in Scripture. But what about those things not specified in the Word?
oc,
Dr. Rogers used to say about God, "When you cannot see His hand, trust His heart."
When you cannot see His hand pointing to the perfect job, car or wife, you'll have to trust His heart.
I know these are just for examples, but I'm trying to work with you...
A look at the whole of scripture will weed out many jobs, cars and potential wives. There are just some things a godly man should NOT do!
If you had a godly Daddy, you could ask yourself what he might recommend. You could ask friends for their opinion.
A good rule of thumb that I tell my girls all the time is this: When in doubt, don't! If you have any question in your mind as to the "rightness" of something, it may be best to wait until you know for sure!
When the Bible doesn't address something, I think God wants us to apply all that we know about His will to that specific thing.
Does that help at all?
Junkster said...
Why this sudden talk and concern about this blog possibly dying? Did I miss something? Seems like there are plenty of life signs to me!
If you want to see a truly dead blog, go take a look at The Bratton Report.
I don't know about your first paragraph either, but I followed your link and I disagree with you.
I noticed that the moderation has thinned down the traffic, but did ya' notice to conversation they were having with Cakes?
He asks good questions, and searching for good answers is a great way to grow deeper in love with Jesus.
I am proud of the way Mike's blog is going at the moment. Wow! Did I just say that?! =8-D
*Sigh* I really miss Cakes. I wish he would come back here.
I would like to have good conversations with him.
*Okay, now that I am awake...let me try this post again*
I don't think it's necessarily that the blog is dying, but when it goes a day without a comment, that seems strange.
I like it when a question is posed that someone is struggling with and others answer. I like it when we stay away from pat, "churchy" answers too. Many of us have grown up in church and yet there are still some subjects and issues we struggle with.
I, for one, am struggling with my job issue within the "Will" question. I've prayed and prayed for guidance and haven't gotten a clear answer. About 80% of the time, I do. From a practical standpoint, it would seem that I don't have a choice, yet God is being silent. Are things happening that I don't know and will impact my job in the future?? I just know that when you aren't in His will, things are harder. And who needs that?
As long as we a talking about God's will, I think it important to remember
Micah 6:8
He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the Lord require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?
I think the daily decisions we make or have to make regarding job and the things we don't think are in the bible in fact really are. If we truly abide in the WORD, the answers come a lot easier and anxiety subsides as we simply dwell in His word more and more.
Circumstances beyond our control begin to appear to be corrective or educational. In other words, what is God telling me today by putting me in this situation? If you are truly in the WORD, If He is truly abiding in you, the Holy Spirit will begin to make things clearer and clearer. We have to remember that God is totally sovereign. If we truly are sons and daughters, can't we trust him to do what ever is needed to benefit us. Romans 8:28
We are taught that Jesus cleanses us from sin and reconciles us to God. I think this is life long process in one way and as we are cleansed with the WORD and reconciled by His blood we get closer to Him and His will becomes our will.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
After this, what else is really all that important. Maybe we sweat the small stuff way to much and by doing so, sin, and by doing that, we create distance from Him that impairs our hearing.
The blog's not dying. Everyone just has spring fever! Seriously, the blog's not going anywhere, but it's up to everyone to keep it going.
Ezekiel: Good points, all. Sometimes the practical battles with the feelings, I think. I love my job, my boss, my flexibility....but I have bills to pay and the two don't meet. So I picked up a second job....temporarily....now I'm up to 60 hours a week.....and temporarily is starting it's third year. Yet, I do not feel a peace about leaving.
I *think* God is telling me to "be still and know that He is God" and I *think* He might be dealing with my boss...or at least I hope so!......so I'm trying to wait patiently.
Can someone please tell that to the medical bills that are piling up?????? :-)
If and when we go through "God's Will", if that is what we do...after that, I'd love to see a study on The Wrath of God!
Just an aside...the pastor where I attend church got an email early this week from a gentleman who either attends or attended, wasn't clear which, at First Baptist, Dallas. He was commending my pastor on his teaching and relating to him how FBD had been forced to go through The Purpose Driven Life in their SS classes under their former pastor...and how it is so PD now. It was a heart wrenching email. I am fortunate to sit under such a Godly pastor. The former pastor he was talking about just had to be Mac Brunson, who is at First Baptist, Jacksonville, Florida now. This story is so reminiscent of my story. Yet, I just sit amazed that folks like all of us just let this happen. Or do we? Too many people just sit idly by and let it come into their churches like the morniing dew! People just will not take a stand for Jesus Christ...and those who do: well, we know that story don't we! I still am amazed that peoplel just sit idly by and do nothing...is it that their conscious is seared? Anyway, though you'd enjoy hearing about that...there are still people out there fighting against this stuff. That is good to know.
Ima: In case you haven't been following......FBC-Jax, with Mac Brunson as their pastor, is going through some tough times now. Their blog link is on the front page. You might find it interesting.
csbcer...yes, I am aware of it. Probably not to the extent I'd like to be...but was aware at one point that those folks down there were in such a state of denial. I guess they still are? Just like the folks still over at BBC?
csbcer...
And IBC. Can't believe I left that one out of my conversation.
My former is still going wide open, "Purpose Driven"...and most folks there still don't have a clue! The older ones especially. They are totally deceived. The pastor they have now is "so nice"...they'd jump off a cliff if he told them to. However, I understand that some are leaving...but, they have more coming in. The world.
They have pulled out the pews and put in chairs...and before anybody jumps on that one, look at page 266 of Warren's Purpose Driven Church! He spells it right out..."if you can get by with it, get rid of the pews and put in chairs..." Interesting reading. They enlarged their pulpit area to incorporate a stage...we know what that is for don't we? They actually had a rapper during the Children's Christmas Program...the adults put on the drama and the little children just stood to the side a sang a song every once in a while. It was akin to the American Idol show, looking for the star. Only the star they were looking for wasn't the star of Christ, it was the star of the show. Big difference. Last Sunday, they had a lady who does Children's Church in front of the congregation...and she brought her Easter Bunny to tell the children about Jesus.
When I talk about this, I truly get physically ill. But at the end of each day, I am so grateful God saved me and that I can see clearly the teachings of the false prophets. My, haven't I run on.
tn_lizzie,
I was referring to the dates of the last post and the last comment over on that "Other" blog. That's a long time to go without a pulse. And aside from the comments from Cakes in that thread, the number of interesting discussions there can be counted on one hand (without using any fingers).
NASS,
More frequent new topics helps keep things moving. Jesus was only in the desert 40 days, but this thread has been going for 44. But then, 533 comments is nothing to sneeze at!
Junk,
Made me laugh again!!!!
You REALLY need to be on my bowling team!!!! AOG never cracks me up as much as you do!
AOG.. :)
GMommy: I agree....we need Junk on our team! A little levity does help the days go by easier.....
"But what about His "permissive" will? How do we discern that?"
Whew! I am so glad that Ez stepped up to the plate...how about you, Junk?
I am still on the Image bearing part and can't seem to get to 'permissive' will. :o)
Well, I think "image bearing" part of being in His will is spelled out in the Scriptures. The ten commandments, etc. The beatitudes, proclamations of the apostles, etc.
His decretive will.
I'm still not satisfied with the answers I have heard concerning those things not spelled out concerning God's will that are not specified in the Bible. His permissive will.
And to be perfectly honest, no Lin, Ez did not answer that, no one has yet.
We walk by what???
We walk by what???
OC,
I think the word you are looking for is Faith.
But where does faith come from? I think it is consistent with my previous post.
Romans 10: 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
I think "permissive will" is something the Baptist made up.
Where is that in the Bible?????
Ez,
Yeah. So you will agree that every single situation is not covered specifically in the Bible. And that was my only point. There is some 'faith walking' to do in our lives.
No gmommy,
No, nothing Baptists have made up. Where in the Bible tells you to brush your teeth in the morning? Is it God's will that you do? How do you know? Maybe you shouldn't. So why do you do it?
He says nothing about that, but permits you to do it anyway.
By the way, I thank Him for that! :)
And if I had every single answer to every single question in my life, and I could read it all in the Bible, then I would not need Faith at all. But Lo and Behold, Faith is what the Father requires of me.
Concerned SBCer said...
Can someone please tell that to the medical bills that are piling up?????? :-)
9:24 AM, March 28, 2008
as Lin has pointed out many times...it's sad when the secular world responds better and with more compassion than "the church" does to brothers and sisters in need.
I happen to know that CSBCer works harder than most men X 3!!!
She is constantly ministering to everyone around her....her mom,brother,her triplets....her blog friends that need meals...a child from the children's home that needs to be loved.
She graciously opens her home and kitchen to college kids that need a "crash pad"...
I've been sitting in her drive waiting for her when they use their own key to let themselves in!
And she works 3 jobs just to make ends meet...and usually they don't.
I'm not nearly as kind as this lady... who in my opinion is a widow like myself.
I took a second job to help deal with my pile of medical bills. I figured in about 3 years I could make a big dent in them if I could work really hard.
Just recently, I was blessed that some people in the secular world saw my need and offered financial help. I had some pride issues I had to work thru but thank God...I can see light now.
a huge burden has been lifted for me...
why do we not see the needs of our own around us???
Why are we so willing to give to strangers rather than the people in need all around us???
Why do we have to go thru the program at the church rather than send an anonomous gift card in the mail ..or pay a bill for someone we know...that needs help?
Why do Chrisians who have been blessed with the gift of making money need 3 motor cycles in the garage??? Can 3 be ridden at one time????
Why do they need Hummers instead of Hondas??? Isn't a car just to get places????
Why do we need to be so public and dramatic about our giving rather than quietly helping widows, single moms, and children???
So many of us would never ask for help or ever get public assistance.
There are so many moms doing the very best that they can do.But it's never enough. There are so many young men that need Godly mentors.
I remember when a minister from BBC left his family to live in sin.
His son almost immediately had a wonderful young man step up and be there for him at every ball game...school event...
while my son...whose dad wasn't well known but even more absent...had virtually no male attention or affirmation for years....still doesn't.
I know we are all busy.I know we can't be all things to all people.
But can't we try and lighten the burden of our own brothers and sisters when we are able???
We don't always have to look else where for people in need.
I thank God for the help I received from the secular world to lighten my load.
gmommy said, in part:
"I thank God for the help I received from the secular world to lighten my load."
A sad commentary indeed.
Why men, aren't we living out the Gospel?
gmommy,
The "mission field" is right next door, isn't it?
I used to think the big offering at church was so important.
Now the whole drama of people givng their rings and all the big production stuff makes my stomach hurt.
I see how important it is ...when I have money ...to give to the person God puts in my path.
My son used to get such joy from giving "single mom discounts" for yard work....(sad to say that same child doesn't mow his own mothers grass...but I am hopeful that God will open his heart again!)
I think we all got so caught up in going to church and participating in church that we forgot to see and love each other.
"I think we all got so caught up in going to church and participating in church that we forgot to see and love each other."
Profound! And therein lies the Gospel.
OC....I think it's just you and me having a discussion here.
Well, it's a good one. :)
Jussayin'.
oc.
I think we all got so caught up in going to church and participating in church that we forgot to see and love each other.
10:38 PM, March 28, 2008
Just like Hospital workers don't care about the patients that they are there to treat.
BTW, for those who aren't following...Memphis is up on Michigan State 80-62. Its been all Tigers tonight.
You have some real good insights, gmommy, and you express them at gut level. I respect that.
Good night.
Hi
hey truett!
Long time no post.
Sorry, guys....Tiger fan here....
GMommy, you ask some deep questions, questions I have wondered about for some time.
I wonder.....why do church folks and pastors visit vistors but not those sheep that *might* have strayed, or that need encouragement?
I wonder....why is divorce dealt with in church as a dirty word and ministered to AFTER the fact (with "Divorce Care Bible Studies") instead of BEFORE with reinforcing of the family structure?
I wonder......why do we send our benevolence money halfway around the world when there are people in the pew next to us that need help?
I'm wondering.....how Satan got us all to be so busy that we don't have time to study scripture or help others anymore?
Just wondering....
Hello Friend's,
It's been so long since I have blogged...I forgot how:) Anyhow I loved Dr. Rogers, and miss Him as we all do. I am actually writing to ask for your prayers.
I have Pastored for 19 years, and am actively seeking to Pastor again. I began a ministry of encouragement to Churches and Pastors.....but have deeply missed serving a local congregation.
I have had resumes out for 6 months and have hardly heard a peep. I am weary of waiting. I have three earned degrees, including a Doctorate… still silence.
I am reminded that Vance Havner use to say “You can die by degree's! I love God’s people, and love to bring His word to them week by week. Why post this plea?
Because I know you are the people of God, and thank you in advance for praying for me ( Dr. Rogers taught you to be a praying people)and my family!
Glad to meet you, truett! I'll be happy to pray for you....the prayer that never fails!
Hey, how about your insight on some of the questions and issues?
Truett,
Praying for you brother.
Truett,
it really has been along time since you visited with us but I remember enjoying your insightful posts. Will be in prayer with you.
Preach to us....many here are still refugees and discouraged. Many read that do not post.
Concerned I will try to answer your questions:
You wonder.....why do church folks and pastors visit visitors but not those sheep that *might* have strayed, or that need encouragement?
Answer: I always tried to visit not only guests, but God’s people on a frequent basis.
The larger the Church the more difficult that would be.
I use to write five families every Monday to let them know I was praying specifically for them that week. That was and is a very effective way of caring for God’s people. A Pastor doing that could personally write 240 families a year!
I wonder....why is divorce dealt with in church as a dirty word and ministered to AFTER the fact (with "Divorce Care Bible Studies") instead of BEFORE with reinforcing of the family structure?
Answer: Great question and it’s a shame that we have somehow made divorce the unpardonable sin…it’ isn’t!
I wonder......why do we send our benevolence money halfway around the world when there are people in the pew next to us that need help?
Answer: The Bible says’ that we are to “ Help those in the house-hold of Faith” Through-out my ministry we helped numerous families in the Church that needed help. From taking food, to paying bills etc.
I have found that often God’s people won’t share a need…..hence the need to really get to know God’s people!
I'm wondering.....how Satan got us all to be so busy that we don't have time to study scripture or help others anymore.
Answer: Remember the Devil fears the weakest saint on their knees! We must decide each day to seek first the kingdom of God…..one thing that has helped me through the years...
Is to say to myself.” No Bible, no breakfast” that is if I am too rushed to feed myself spiritually I don’t have the time for bacon and eggs!
Just answering from my heart....
thanks Truett
Gmommy:
Thank you, for your prayers and your kind words!
Here is a wonderful quote from Ron Dunn (Now with the Lord) about trusting God.
1. We learn to trust God, by trusting God
2. We won’t trust God until we have too
3. God will see to it, that we have too!
"I used to think the big offering at church was so important.
Now the whole drama of people givng their rings and all the big production stuff makes my stomach hurt.
I see how important it is ...when I have money ...to give to the person God puts in my path."
Yes, we must have our nice buildings and high salaries for pastors and staff and of course pay for their medical benefits. And shame on those single moms who do not tithe. Right.
But I have to ask...when did we decide that there are 'professional' Christians and and all the rest of us and that we needed a fancy building?
Where, pray tell, is all of this in the NT?
the world captured the chuches....we adopted the worldly view of how things should work.
Truett...
come back soon.
Nighty friends.
Truett said: "I used to write five families every Monday to let them know I was praying specifically for them that week. That was and is a very effective way of caring for God’s people. A Pastor doing that could personally write 240 families a year!"
I am speechless!!! This would help in all the questions I posted!!! And frankly, a church should only be as big as the pastor can handle. Mega's leave so many things to fall in the cracks.
With visits and contacts like that, the relationship would be close enough to help in many issues I spoke about. If the relationship was close, there wouldn't be embarassment about sharing needs.
What a concept. Thanks, Truett. I hope you find a church soon....sounds like many would be blessed.
Here is what Oswalt Chambers had to say about permissive will:
"WRESTLING BEFORE GOD "
"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God . . . praying always . . . " Ephesians 6:13, 18
You have to wrestle against the things that prevent you from getting to God, and you wrestle in prayer for other souls; but never say that you wrestle with God in prayer, it is scripturally untrue. If you do wrestle with God, you will be crippled all the rest of your life. If, when God comes in some way you do not want, you take hold of Him as Jacob did and wrestle with Him, you compel Him to put you out of joint. Don't be a hirpler in God's ways, but be one who wrestles before God with things, becoming more than conqueror through Him. Wrestling before God tells in His Kingdom. If you ask me to pray for you and I am not complete in Christ, I may pray but it avails nothing; but if I am complete in Christ my prayer prevails all the time. Prayer is only effective when there is completeness - "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God."
Always distinguish between God's order and His permissive will, i.e., His providential purpose towards us. God's order is unchangeable; His permissive will is that with which we must wrestle before Him. It is our reaction to the permissive will of God that enables us to get at His order. "All things work together for good to them that love God" - to those who remain true to God's order, to His calling in Christ Jesus. God's permissive will is the means whereby His sons and daughters are to be manifested. We are not to be like jelly-fish saying, "It's the Lord's will." We have not to put up a fight before God, not to wrestle with God, but to wrestle before God with things. Beware of squatting lazily before God instead of putting up a glorious fight so that you may lay hold of His strength."
Thought it might be relative to the discussion...
But I don't get that at all....someone break that down in English, please.
I agree with gmommy about the "permissive will" business. It does sound like something someone just made up. I'm not saying we don't have permission to do certain things. I think this was afforded to us through the grace of Jesus Christ. However after hearing so many people say "God didn't give me permission to leave BBC" I started wondering about this. Did God give me permission to leave BBC? Frankly and this will probably surprise some but I didn't spend a lot of time asking permission. My stomach hurt, I was extremely uncomfortable, we did not feel like we should tithe there because we were hearing that there were financial questions, etc. I wanted to stay and finish out the year with my 4th grade children but we ended up leaving months before the school year was finished. To this day I think we stayed several months too long. After studying false prophets in depth with our current pastor, I realized from something he said that we are to FLEE such false teachings. That is not to say we shouldn't try to stop someone if they are tearing a church apart. I completely supported anything that could be done to restore our church back to being God's House but it was not to be.
And gmommy I don't get Chambers either so don't feel bad. My sister graduated from Vanderbilt and she doesn't get it either. Neither of us are simpletons but we do like to hear clearer teaching. Your posts are very well thought out and deep so I don't think you are lacking either!
Love to you all!
Too bad we cannot ask Hudson Taylor about 'permissive will'. :O)
Hey...I didn't say I 'got it' either, but am studying a little on it, as time won't allow me a whole lot at the moment.
But I have run across something that caught my eye in an instant. There is a church in Louisville named Highland Baptist Church and they are beginning a study on Brian McLauren's book, Everything Must Change. A local paper states, "Highland Baptist Church, 1101 Cherokee Road, will begin an eight-week study of Brian McLaren's book "Everything Must Change" at 5 p.m. tomorrow. Studies will be two hours each week through May 18, including a meal. Books are available for purchase at the church for $20. Information: 451-3735."
I discovered this on Ken Silva's blog, Highland Baptist to stury Brian McLauren's Everything Must Change
This is equally as bad to the 40 DOP movement, possibly worse. Time will tell. Wonder if Lifeway is promoting this?
A cave is beginning to sound good. :(
Lin...I thought you might fill us in on this church. Any names attend there that we might recognize?
Hey Ima,
Not sure if Lifeway is pushing McLaren but on their website they do offer two of his books and the "Change" book is one of them. Their front page looks like they are pushing Beth Moore.
I do get Chambers sometimes - I wasn't doggin' ya! I did not get that particular one - that's for sure.
bowtheknee...oh no, I didn't feel 'dogged'...haha! Yes, I checked out Lifeway too and you are right...there he is. Oh, I tell you...it just tears me up. I know it is all there...right in the Book, but I still just stand amazed that people are in such darkness. It is so very, very sad.
Looks to me like when the leadership of the church brings into their midst another book, other than the Bible, for them to study...and especially with such fanfare that they would realize something is amiss. I keep asking why people are so blinded to this apostasy! My pastor says they can't see it...that they won't see it. He says that God brought us (like all of us) out of Egypt.
Did you look at the Highland Baptist Church website? It is not a lot different to some...but the first I have seen that makes mention of Brian McLauren. He is the ringleader of the emergent church. Rough stuff.
On the will...my husband tried to explain all this to me. I'm still not clear on it. Too busy doing tax work to get into like I want. :)
I googled permissive will and there was alot more than I expected to see....but I had no idea who the writers were.
One said basically what I have been trying to UN learn most of my life....
when you screw up and get OUT of God's perfect will and into His permissive will...you are forever DOOMED to stay out of God's perfect will...I KNOW that isn't right....
It's also wrong that the people struggling in life are all out of God's will...life is just hard....it's not always like the fairy tails we grow up believing.
oops...
tale maybe ...and grew
"Looks to me like when the leadership of the church brings into their midst another book, other than the Bible, for them to study...and especially with such fanfare that they would realize something is amiss.)
The seminaries (Esp SBTS) is doing the exact same thing with Grumden's books. He is our new Pope for what to believe.
Highland Baptist is in an old residential area near downtown and is one of the most beautiful old churches you have ever seen. Built in the 'Norman' stone style. It is very old.
Now, they have many homosexual members. I do not know why they call themselves baptist, they aren't. The church is small, maybe 150 attend. Their pastor is a well known outspoken liberal in town who has occassional editorials in the paper on social issues.
Lin...I have run across this Grumden's name a couple of times. I haven't a clue...brief me on him if you will.
I will do a study on him at a later time...Uncle Sam is going to come after me if I don't get these taxes done! Hahaha...
Gmommy...why don't you just try not to get to 'caught up' in this...I am going to stick with the Word and study, hoping to garner from it what the Lord wants me to. I love the Word...and reading over it is so beautiful. And so comforting. Don't let yourself get upset. :)
Ima
Ima,
Words of wisdom!
I'm chilling :)
gmommy...that is a good thing. :)
Now, back to Peachtree...
"boughtbythebood,"
Words of advice:
1. You have no e-mail address in your profile, so how could anyone e-mail you?
2. You must be confusing "gmommy" with someone else.
3. If you know this Valerie person and it's so "urgent" you get in touch with her, you shouldn't have to go through an anonymous blog to do so.
4. Unless someone has publicized his or her name on this blog, I do not want to see anyone publicly speculating about another blogger's identity. "Ace" was the exception since "ace" chose to lie, to use innocent people in his lies (e.g. David Coombs' son), and generally make a pain in the rear out of himself.
5. Invest in a dictionary.
bbtb,
Nope. None of the above. Not even warm. Why do you care?
Yeah, and it didn't rain today. Blah blah blah.
I know for a FACT that I am right. You can't throw me off track. You can try, but in the end you are just misleading your flock.
Gmommy, I would still appreciate it if you could email me.
God bless,
BBTB
and to answer your question, God has placed me on this blog to make sure you are all behaving. I am an angel.
is that good enough of a reason for you?
Blog,
Been in deep prayer. I have things that God has told me which may only pertain to me, but I'm not sure. But anyway, I'm letting my brothers and sisters know. Notice: there is nothing new in anything I have to say.
He sent us poets, beautifully written messages of love. He sent us prophets, and we sent them back to Him beaten, bloodied, and abused.
So now why won't we, as hard as He has been trying to work with us;... why won't we let Him just love on us for a while? Would it be that bad? For us to sit back a while, and just absorb His love. Just for a little while.
Before resuming the battle?
What about that?
Shut up, chubs.
Oh, it rained today, but you still don't have a clue. You might as well give it up. And how could anyone e-mail someone who doesn't have an e-mail address?
I am an angel.
LOL! A fallen one for sure!
I'm just tired.
You really need to take me seriously. When you get into heaven ask about me. I am an angel sent to earth to take care of several items on the agenda.
No lies. You just need to have a little faith. (Hebrews 11:1)
You come here and taunt me. I respond and you tell me to shut up? Oh, the irony! Just whose "bood" were you "bought" by?
Yep, sure sounds like "ace"rtain former poster to me! He's really good at dishing it out but squeals like a little girl when the tables are turned.
It's time to get out those paddles and start scrolling on by. Oh, wait. Since moderation is on... never mind!
Wow! And I thought we were all destined for hell for being such recalcitrants.
I'm not taunting you..........I am building character in you and my new-found friends here.......That is all. I want nothing but the best for you gals & guys.
I must move on to my next mission, my work here is done. I'll see you in eternity whenever you get here. Hurry! I can't wait to meet you.
Hmmm... could've fooled me. No, you don't want "the best" for us. You want us to go away. Amazing how a handful of insignificant bloggers cause some people to get their knickers in such a knot.
Nice to see you figured out how to spell "blood" though. I really thought you misspelled "boob."
Bye bye.
You pervert.
You pervert.
who is chubs and why did you tell the "angel" how to spell his name??? Surely an angel can spell BLOOD!
How silly some people are.
Yes...very angel like.
Nass...why are we reading his silly posts?
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