Formerly called the "pulpit committee," is the body now called the "pastor search committee" always really qualified to search for a new pastor, and do they really do enough research before making a decision?
There were definitely some questions regarding conflicts of interest with Bellevue's last pastor search committee.
Related articles:
Pastor searches packed with perils
INTEGRITY IN MINISTRY: NO HIDDEN SKELETONS IN YOUR CLOSET
Pastoral Search Questions
The Pastor Search Process
This illustrates how monumental the task must seem!
Pastor Search Committee Workbook
Steve Gaines addresses the congregation of Gardendale's FBC July 10, 2005 regarding the call to Bellevue in his "Didn't I tick you guys off?" speech. Summary here.
There were definitely some questions regarding conflicts of interest with Bellevue's last pastor search committee.
Related articles:
Pastor searches packed with perils
INTEGRITY IN MINISTRY: NO HIDDEN SKELETONS IN YOUR CLOSET
Pastoral Search Questions
The Pastor Search Process
This illustrates how monumental the task must seem!
Pastor Search Committee Workbook
Steve Gaines addresses the congregation of Gardendale's FBC July 10, 2005 regarding the call to Bellevue in his "Didn't I tick you guys off?" speech. Summary here.
Thanks to "amazed" for this topic suggestion.
763 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 763 of 763A fellow blogger thought this might be helpful for everyone to understand staunch supporters of Steve Gaines:
5 Points of Gainesism:
Total Disregard for Fences
Unconditional Elevation of Self
Limited Amount of Congregational
Approval
Irresistable Greenbacks
Perseverence in Running off the
Saints
We have such creative intelligent truthseekers among our bloggers!!
Some random late night thoughts...
Did you know that the phrase "voter block analysis" doesn't appear even once in a Google search?
I would suggest if someone owes you money and doesn't pay that you pursue the matter legally. And have the backbone to name names.
Common sense dictates that a person being threatened with litigation generally doesn't publish his name and all the details about a situation on the world wide web if he's overly concerned about being sued.
The full moon was last week. Apparently some people are a little behind.
Just sayin'.
SIGH.
Poor ol' Steve. He is sooo persecuted!!!
Here are some of the things that he is being persecuted over and to think that the bloggers MADE him do these things!! Why, it's a travesty!!! He's innocent, I tell ya, he's innocent!!!
1. Trespassing on private property in a gated community and climbing over the "itty-bitty" 41" fence, then trying to liken it to an EE visit. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, then Assoc Pastor Mark Dougharty, Chuck Taylor and John Caldwell.
2. Refusing to be transparent in the financial matters of the church
3. Refusing to allow members a membership directory, copies of by-laws, copies of minutes of Board meetings..oh, I forgot, no minutes, no business to discuss, just more evidence that a few corrupt men are handling all the church business as they choose and are accountable to NO ONE!
4. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, Calling a deacon "Hez" after he and his 3 co-conspirators trespassed on the deacons property.
5. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, using the church credit card for personal expenses, and standing before the church on a Wed night and lying about EVER using the church credit card for personal use.
6. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines refusing to abide by Matt 18.
7. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, saying he doesn't preach on Wed nights, needs time with his family..TRUTH..HE HAS HAD SEVERAL SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS AWAY FROM BELLEVUE ON WED NIGHTS FOR EXTRA $$$$ AND SEVERAL WERE CANCELLED WHEN THE WORLD FOUND OUT ABOUT HIS HARBORING A PEDOPHILE MINISTER ON STAFF FOR 6 MONTHS AFTER THE PEDOPHILE MINISTER CONFESSED TO STEVE GAINES AND STEVE GAINES DID NOTHING ABOUT IT, UNTIL THE VICTIM CALLED HIS HAND ON IT!
8. Steve Gaines, Sr Pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church harboring a confessed pedophile minister for 6 months, allowing him to roam the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church and saying "it is under the blood". Steve Gaines only revealing the information when the victim, the son of the pedophile, came to Steve Gaines wanting to know how he could allow him to remain in his position. If not for this brave young man, would PW still be roaming the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church??
9. Steve Gaines bragging to his Gardendale congregation how he "told them everything that is wrong with Bellevue", talking to Union in Jackson bragging about the "information meeting, no discussions" and that he didn't just fall off a cabbage truck!
10. The joke of a monkey-business meeting. The pre-planned motion to adjourn..because of their concern of children staying in the nursery so long and the nursery workers, what a joke!! When the motion was made to have quarterly business meetings and to adopt the SBC's June 2002 resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers one of their pre-planned plants, Mr Angel, made the motion to adjourn. Them bragging about shutting down the mic's. They saw the victim approaching a mic to be addressed and shut down the mic and had the audacity to brag about it!
11. They are concerned about the nursery workers, who were paid help for the monkey business meeting, and the children being in the nursery for maybe an additional 10-15 minutes, long enough to vote on adopting the SBC's resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers and having quarterly business meetings...BUT, STEVE GAINES was NOT concerned about allowing a confessed pedophile roam the halls, exposed to children, anytime he would desire to be, for 6 MONTHS AFTER THE PEDOPHILE CONFESSED TO STEVE GAINES!!!!!!!
12. Gave $25,000 to a church that supports homosexual marriage and abortion.
Poor, poor Steve Gaines...those mean bloggers, in dire need of Ms. Billie's spiritual help, made him do these things.
Billie,
Do you think that it's a bad thing that PW was exposed, even if it was done on this EVVVVIIIIILLLLL
Blog?
Would you rather that he still be in his position and there would have never been a blog to expose him.
This blog has allowed what has been done in the dark to be brought to light. That's a bad thing?
Satan would have loved for him to remain undetected. Satan hates this blog. Apparently you two have something in common.
SOTL wrote:
"Trespassing on private property in a gated community and climbing over the "itty-bitty" 41" fence.... "
There you go, blogging negative, false information again! That's fense, dear. F-E-N-S-E.
-----IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH TREASURE YOU HAVE, ADD UP ALL THE THINGS THAT MONEY CAN'T BUY AND DEATH CAN'T TAKE AWAY..."
author: Dr. Adrian P. Rogers
Well it appears that history does repeat its self. Miss Billie has once again hijacked the blog and a lot of people have fallen for it. The key word is scroll, scroll, scroll.
amazed: You are right....I tried, I really tried.....
*head hung in shame*
Save Camp Cordova information.
Happy Birthday, Lynn!
Nass: The meetings to help save Camp Cordova are over. :-(
It seems as though it was really kept on the QT. What now?
Okay, folks....I looked deeper onto that website to Save Camp Cordova. There are places to write to the MSBA as well as to post suggestions.
If you grew up Baptist in this area, you've been to Camp Cordova. I know it's not the flashiest place, but maybe we need our kids to "get back to the basics" too.
Take a look when you can.
:-)
New BBC Open Forum said...
Happy Birthday, Lynn!
10:08 AM, October 03, 2007
Thanks NASS. And I must say, God has blessed me with a loving family by allowing them to adopt me! As much as some of my family members annoy me and aggrivate me, I am still blessed by being in the family I'm in.
I have a serious question:
If BBC builds this prayer chapel and it is found to have a labryinth inside for prayer walking, how many of those who love Steve and Donna will stick around knowing that labryinths origiated in Greek mythology?
Labrynths are a "new age" practice and have no place in a Baptist church. Since when do you have to walk around in a circle to talk to God? You need a prayer labryinth in a Baptist church as much as you need Rosary beads. God is not the author of confusion, but BBC building a labryinth is the most confusing thing I can think of.
Karen,
Confusion is all that occurred since SG took office. He is not what he presents himself to be. The Angel of Light deceives and destroys. SG has destroyed Bellevue and is seeking to bring her into a full-throttle PDC church, complete with dictatorial control AND labyrinths.
What I cannot figure out is why these preacher-deceivers don't start their own churches instead of hijacking and gutting existing churches. Could it be that they want the money already in place so they don't have to WORK for it? The Lord knows they are not having to work for their top dollar financial packages at BBC!!! It is just a matter of time before we shall see him for what he really is - and his past comes back to haunt him.
Karen: You would hope that it would open the eyes for some, but think about this: if a fence, a $25,000 donation, a pedophile, etc. didn't open their eyes....well, I'm doubtful a Labryrith would.
Karen,
I would sum up the answer to your question as follows: They look at all of the facts with thier eyes wide shut and with minds like a steel trap. Once they close thier souls to the facts, it is next to impossible to open them.
Aslansown
Another interesting letter by Carol Pemberton on Saving Bellevue.
concerned & aslansown,
I agree with both of you, but my head hurts from banging it against the brick wall that some have put up between Steve Gaines and the Truth.
I just can't get my head around the fact that he will get strong Christian people to walk a labryinth when said Christians KNOW that they KNOW that they KNOW that such practices are NOT scriptural.
How is it that people we have know for years (some of us, all our lives!) fall for this total crap! -Sorry, Nass - Just because Steve Gaines says it's okay? What about checking with the Word of God? Is prayer walking in the Bible? Please enlighten me where one person has walked a maze in order to get his prayers heard and answered!
Ok, off the soap box, but it is SO FRUSTRATING when the Truth is smacking people across the face daily and they choose to not see it.
I guess if Steve Gaines decides to appoint is wife as co-pastor that will be okay too. How about snakes - let's take up snakes next. If they fall for that, let's try breath prayers, then let's try faith healing and speaking in tongues....the list of garbage that Steve Gaines could have lined up for BBC is unimaginable.
By the way, according to the new BBC commercial, "the experts have spoken". You just gotta see it to believe it. I about barfed!
I thought it was illegal for churches to promote political parties or candidates. Of course, I know that rule depends on which side of the fence you sit (Is it over 41"?) but I'm pretty sure it could put the 501C in jeopardy.
concerned,
Herenton, Chumney and Morris spent all day Sunday "stumping" in local churches. Just because it's illegal, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Everyone just winks, nods and looks the other way.
Happy Birthday Lynn!
Just sayin'.
oc. :)
Yeah, I know....during the last Senate election, Jr. filmed a commercial in a church.
*sigh*
We don't need more laws, we need to enforce the ones we have. IMHO
Recognize any of the names on this list?
The Administrative Leadership Council [of Camp Coprdova] is made up of:
Don Marston, Moderator
Rick Isbell, Vice Moderator
DC Cobb, Clerk
Bud Clements, Treasurer
Mike Day, Executive Director
John Allen, Resource Team Chair
John Finley, Mobilization Team Chair
Preston Poindexter, Leadership Team Chair
Danny Sinquefield, Planting Team Chair
ALC Members at Large:
Effort Alexanber - Grace
AJ Dunham - Ridgeway
John Bomar - Brookside
Mary Bowen - 1st Cordova
Joe Jernigan - Bellevue
Dale Gravatt - MSBACC
Rick Panis - Trafalgar Village
Sam Nichols - 1st Collierville
Tommy Snyder - Forest Hill
Ashley McCullough - Ellendale
John Yarbrough - Balmoral
Fenwick Chapell - Union Avenue
Thanks, Nass......I just don't/can't understand. Are they trading the ministry location for money?
And yes, there are many familiar names.
:/
I saw the first of the four new BBC TV ads tonight -- "Adorable Kids."
What do you like about Sunday School?
(I didn't know that archaic term was still used at BBC.)
I love it when we play games.
I like it when... I... paint rainbows.
I get to be with my friends.
I like to learn about Jesus so I can be more like Him.
It's gweat to have lots of fwiends so we can pway for each other.
I love to sing songs about Jesus.
It's fun to do Bible verses and get prizes.
Did someone write this script?
I thought it was "Bible Study Fellowship?"
"I thought it was "Bible Study Fellowship?"
It is whatever it is when I say it is, and it is what I say it is at the time I need it to be whatever it is that I say it is. So this time it is this. and this time it is that. Is that clear? Now get in line.
Just sayin'.
oc.
oc wrote:
"Is that clear?"
Sadly, it is.
I'm so grateful that I was too busy these past few days to even deal with billie's latest rant. I didn't even read it. =) What a liberating feeling. No ulcer for me!
Be honest! You guys know you wish hadn't read it either. ;P
Anyway, someone on here was talking about B'rit a while back. Can you tell me more about it. I know about the site. I've been to it. I guess I'm asking about stuff I won't read about or learn from the site.
Thanks in advance.
Did someone write this script?
YES it was scripted!
Concernedsbcer
You have mail...
NBBCOF...
On the 'interesting article'...yes.
Let me also highly recommend Bob DeWaay's book, "Redefining Christianity - Understanding the Purpose Driven Movement". You really can't get any better than Bob DeWaay. If you haven't read this book, you must.
Ima
I believe all or most of the teenagers in the "teen" one are in Crosspoint, the drama team.
I found this course being offered on Wednesday evenings at Bellevue to be very interesting for the days we live in.
I wonder what the course has to say about Matthew 18 in the church? I guess Rev. Parvin will have to tiptoe on eggshells since Brothers Steve Gaines, Chuck Taylor, and Steve Tucker don't believe it applys inside the church.
------------------------------
The Epistle of Jude: The Trouble with Tares - New
Teacher: Skip Parvin
Room: W223
Throughout the Scriptures, believers are warned of false doctrines and the influence of the unredeemed religious crowd in churches. Jesus faced the stalking of the Pharisees, and other New Testament writers faced both legalists and liberals. The problems they caused were not only doctrinal, but also divisive and immoral. Learn through Jude the character and conduct of these trouble-making tares.
FYI, a long time friend of our family and a long time BBC member has been unceremoniously "fired" from working in the nursery for not signing the "loyalty oath". This person worked in the nursery for 50 YEARS! without the loyalty oath. Sara Jenkins told her that her services were no longer needed and she did not need to come back to the nursery. When the worker asked to say goodbye to the other workers, Sara said "we'll say goodbye for you"! Then a week later, this worker went to the nursery to say goodbye and there was a woman standing behind a pillar in the nursery, obviously listening to everything the worker told the other workers.
How is it that this is happening - a 50 year volunteer is dismissed for not signing the "oath", but the pastor keeps sexual abuse under wraps. Something is rotten in Denmark!
Miss Billie, a couple of days ago you stated "you've never seen a loyalty oath". Is that because you don't deem it a "loyalty oath" or have they not gotten to you yet. Have you signed a paper regarding background/financial checks? I'm just wondering how you got around it - unless you don't see it the way we do. Just wondering - not starting with you.
karen
fog wrote:
"Throughout the Scriptures, believers are warned of false doctrines and the influence of the unredeemed religious crowd in churches. Jesus faced the stalking of the Pharisees, and other New Testament writers faced both legalists and liberals. The problems they caused were not only doctrinal, but also divisive and immoral. Learn through Jude the character and conduct of these trouble-making tares."
I think they're talking about "us" there. As SG said, "I'm telling you that from the first day that I walked in the door, it was a time of plucking up, breaking down, destroying and overthrowing."
Trash, dissenters, troublemakers... tares... that's what they think of anyone who doesn't swallow and follow.
Hey, Karen. Shall we name names? I'm sure many would know both of the women you mentioned.
A beloved nursery worker for the past 53 years is unceremoniously kicked out simply because she refused to sign a loyalty pledge and to give BBC carte blanche to not only do a background check (after 53 years, isn't it a bit late?) but to check her credit report and any other aspect of her life they might want to stick their noses into.
Yet a confessed sexual predator/child molester is allowed to roam the halls of BBC for six months after his dirty little secret was revealed.
Beating my head against SOTL's keyboard.
Posting for "tn_lizzie2000" who is experiencing technical difficulties with Blogger this morning:
tn_lizzie2000 said...
According to the TV spots:
Adorable Kids memorize Bible verses and get prizes, and only 6 out of 11 are white.
30Somethings make a lot of money, are white, have southern accents, and dress alike.
Adventure = the inner city of Memphis. White members go on field-trips to work with people who are different from them.
Six Degrees (WHAT does this mean?) Bellevue youth/college/singles have ROCK music, concert lighting and cool cars.
* I notice the planned racial demographics ~ Does BBC look like this on Sundays now? False advertising comes to mind...
* I noticed the lack the of elderly; even the middle-aged are missing. OK, truth in advertising here, I suppose?
Mrs. Higginbotham says, "When I was brought on staff, I was challenged to lead Bellevue to be God's House of Prayer..."
* So, she is doing Steve's job?! Isn't this what he promised HE was going to do ~ teach BBC to be a praying church?
Math for some numbers on Mrs. Higgy's list:
* Approximately 100 3rd-6th graders? That would be 3rd + 4th + 5th + 6th to get a total of 100 kids?
* 170 Homebound Prayer Guides?
* 51 Pray-ers each month and 4 service times. OK, but with 16 services a month, that is 3 people per service.
With the addition of SG and his compatriots, the multiplication of false doctrines and false brothers, the subtraction of the Holy Spirit, the grey-haired, and the otherwise wise, and the division of those left over, I don't see much at BBC anymore that counts.
You know, just when I think it can't get more bizarre, it does. I just don't understand. Is it SG's desire for power? Is it DC's desire for control? Is it a fear that secrets will be exposed? There is no way in any logical mind that this behavior can be excused.
Unless that mind is in the sand? That can't be comfortable for too long, can it? Surely you gotta come up for air soon......
Wondering what Ms. Billie thinks about the nursery worker?
What will her excuses be now?
How will she spin this so that SG looks good?
In my wildest imagination I cannot fathom the justification for this.
But I bet Ms. Billie can.
TN Lizzie: Brilliant post. (I can see that homeschooling Mom coming out!) People sure don't seem to be putting the numbers together, do they?
SOTL,
Don't encourage her... please! ;-(
RE: The Trouble with Tares class
Hey Steve!!
Psss..haven't you noticed? Your worship center has a lot of empty seats!!!
Your so-called " Tares" have already left your House of Horror.
Your dissenters have left the building, or haven't you noticed?
Those who objected to your continued employment of the sexual pervert have found churches where preachers have more sense than that.
Those who objected to your $25,000 donation to the apostate church have found church homes where the congreation votes before donations of that amount are made.
Those who objected to your laughing and lying about climbing the " iddy biddy fence" have found pastors who obey the law.
Those who objected to the trashing of your own sheep in another church have found pastors where it would have not been necessary for them to do that, nor would they because they have something you don't have: A PASTOR'S HEART
Those who have left after attending the March " BUSINESS MEETING" have found churches where they hold LEGITIMATE business meetings on a montly basis, where nothing is prearranged in advance.
Those who objected to the use of your church credit card for personal use have found church homes where pastors have accountability to their sheep.
Those who objected to your view that Matthew 18 does not apply to you have found pastors who believe in following Matthew 18.
Those who objected to your "dream" where you silenced the man who would joyfully and spontaneously yell " amen" in your sermons have found pastors who do not base their theology on dreams and do not crush the spirit of those who worship Jesus verbally.
Those who objected to the lie you told about why you can't preach on Wednesday nights have found churches where pastors preach on Wednesday nights.
Your next group of TARES: Those who object to the firing of a nursery worker who had been there for 50 years because she refused to sign a loyalty oath to YOU!
You wouldn't be trying to use this to rally your troops, would you?
You wouldn't be trying to unite
the unsuspecting by making them beleive that your TARES are still in the building would you? From what I can see, for the most part, those left are standing in line to kiss your ring with their eyes wide shut.
For those who have been around long enough, in the days before Bellevue attendence was below 1,000, Peter Lord, Pastor of First Baptist Church Titusville, was often a guest speaker. He stated that a church that had to advertise to attract new members had a pastor who was not doing his job. If a pastor is doing his job, he is training his people to share Jesus and to promote the work of the church. Advertising was out of the question. What's more, is the church did not have a sign until it became necessary to help out of town visitors find the church. Yet one more truth that the leadership at Bellevue has tossed into the trash can, and they know better.
Are things so bad at Bellevue that they actively seek to rob other pastors of their sheep.
Another truth, a pastor is not a king. The verses about not harming the king do not apply to a pastor. What does apply John 21:15-19 Feed my lambs. Tend my sheep. Feed my sheep.
Random thoughts:
The Emporer has no clothes.
Gaines cast the first stone.
Family of friends, comrade.
Where have some of our dear friends gone???
25+ and your BRILLIANT list.....
Dr. Loney and your ability to help us all look on the inside...and laugh....
Amos and your reminders to check scripture first....
Lily and Socwork wuith their voices of reason......
2006Huldah, WestTN Barrister, and Finance Guy....
Just wondering how you all are and where you went.
:-)
Where have all the Christians Gone?
With apologies to Pete Seeger
Where have all the Christians gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Christians gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Christians gone?
Steve has plucked them every one
When will they ever return?
When will they ever return?
Where have all the plucked ones gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the plucked ones gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the plucked ones gone?
Gone to shephards every one
When will they ever return?
When will they ever return?
Where have all the bloggers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the bloggers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the bloggers gone?
Gone for service every one
When will they ever return?
When will they ever return?
Where have all the servents gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the servents gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the servents gone?
Gone from Bellevue every one
When will they ever return?
When will they ever return?
Where have all the Bellevuers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Bellevuers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Bellevuers gone?
Gone with Jesus every one
We have surely learned!
We have surely learned!
So Sad!
Billie wrote:
"First I want to say that I have not even seen or read an oath."
New BBC Open Forum said...
"Were Sunday School teachers not required to sign the "Leadership Covenant"?"
People are signing these "Leadership Covenants" without even reading and /or understanding what they are agreeing to. They are told to just sign so that they can teach. It's just a formality. The church keeps the papers "under lock and key" and does not give anyone a copy (except Blueline, Protect My Ministry, and other undisclosed background search companies).
So don't be surprised when you hear "...I have not even seen or read an oath"
PLease don't ask certain people anything about the loyal woman that was thrown out of the nursury. The rantings never make sense.
That particular woman
(I can't imagine she would be shy about our using her name!)
was committed and loyal to the choir also....she was lovingly called by a certain nickname for good reason!!!
:)
I don't care what spin the Gaines crowd gives it.
None of that group will care about this woman.
Hey "S"!!!!
We care about you....so sorry for the way you were treated!.
Please know we appreciate all your years of servanthood.
Something else to consider:
During this current Memphis City election, has anyone seen a candidate mention being a member of Bellevue Baptist church?
Either there is no one left to run or it is too much of a political liability to say your a member.
"I love it when we play games"
Where have some of our dear friends gone???
25+ and your BRILLIANT list.....
Dr. Loney and your ability to help us all look on the inside...and laugh....
Amos and your reminders to check scripture first....
Lily and Socwork wuith their voices of reason......
2006Huldah, WestTN Barrister, and Finance Guy....
Just wondering how you all are and where you went.
First of all, let me say that it is nice to be missed. I hopped on here just too see your sweet inquiry. :)
Second, I'm honored to be included in that list of posters!
Third, obviously I haven't posted much lately. I do lurk occasionally, however.
I understand that the nursery worker of 54 years that I see mentioned recently is no longer in the nursery BBC. She began her ministry at Bellevue under R.G. Lee (if my math serves me correctly). The fact that she was "let go" for having the audacity to not hastily sign something without reading it closely and asking questions just shines a giant spotlight on the hypocrisy of the whole situation. It's incredibly sad. 54 years of faithful service!
I would say it's unbelievable, but let's not forget the words of Jeremiah 17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all things,and desperately sick; who can understand it?"
Interestingly enough, there are coaches today who are STILL coaching soccer teams at Bellevue who have NOT complied with the mandate to sign an “as-is” Coach Covenant AND Leadership Covenant. However, per Scotty Shows AND David Coombs, this was a requirement for anybody who wished to be the head coach of a Bellevue soccer team.
Soc: You've got mail.
:-)
Those who are curious to know how I feel about the older nursery worker being ask to step down:
It is very important for our church to have loyality in the current administration and the best way to know who will and who will not is to have them to sign a oath. She had to go! I don't take pleasure in firing her but BBC doesn't need anyone working inside that can not be trusted to support the church.
I asked this week why I had not been requested to sign a oath and I was told that I should have. Maybe it was lost in the mail. I want to sign one.
When Nehemiah worked on the wall he appointed only those who could be trusted to support his work. When the wall was finished he chose out of those men to be the keepers of the gates.
God doesn't choose His enemies to carry out His work. You nor I would choose someone who hates us to care and feed our children.
I don't know why she has chosen not to sign the support agreement; I would have quit on my own. Sounds like and this is my opinion, but it sounds like she was determined to hold her position regardless of what the rule of the church was. Sounds as though or should I say, implications are that this woman has some issues other than just not wanting to sign a church oath.
I have a great respect for those who are working so faithfully to give us a unified place to worship God. I am not saying this just to make things sound good, but things at BBC are good, the crowds are smaller but growing and the atmosphere is very sweet and gets better everyday. We are very upbeat and excited over what the Lord is doing. I think when families go through difficult times and work through them together they come out stronger and healthier. We are blessed and just wish all of ya'll would find peace and contentment without feeling that you have to stay on the blog casting stones at us (Bellevue)
Wherever you go to church be sure to fully support that church and the pastor!If you can't do that then do the church a favor and leave don't wait for them to have to ask you to step down.
I have a question. The Bellevue Orchestra is hosting an Evening of Elegance tomorrow evening (Friday). The cost is $10. In the past, the musicians were primarily (or exclusively??) members of the Bellevue Orchestra.
However, it has been said that the Bellevue Music Department has actually had to hire some musicians and PAY them in order to cover several of the sections and parts in the orchestra. Can somebody please confirm whether this is true?
Surely this can’t be true…or could it??
Oy vey.
I'm not gonna even bother responding to Billie tonight. I'm already in a bad mood and ready to move far away from Memphis because its official. Mayor Potato Head has won a 5th term.
I Hate Memphis.
New BBC Open Forum said...
Oy vey.
Well said.
I like it when... I... paint rainbows. La la la.
Lynn said...
I'm not gonna even bother responding to Billie tonight. I'm already in a bad mood and ready to move far away from Memphis because its official. Mayor Potato Head has won a 5th term.
I Hate Memphis.
You must be one of those haters that Willie had to shake off!
Billie, Billie, Billie,
Thank you for your obtuse and asinine post.
Now the world will know what we already know about the ring kissers.
Nass,
...I get to be with my friends.....
ooops....Steve and the guards ran them all off...
Oh well, I like to be with my friends from the blog....
especially when we bowl together...
Where IS Lily Pad????
gmommy,
I love it when we play games.
cibt,
I've only been to Bellevue twice in the last 6 months, but this is what I've seen and heard.
On Jon Tyner's last day, the orchestra was made up of Bellevue members, but about half of them were from the youth department. It really didn't matter whether they were there or not, because the kid playing the drums was slamming them so loud you couldn't hear anything else. (I thought it was fitting that he was wearing hearing protection just like people who work around jet engines.)
Last Wednesday the 'orchestra' was made up of drums, a bass guitar, a saxophone, and the piano. I didn't recognize any of the musicians except the bass player (who's a member), but again there was no reason for any instruments other than the drums because you couldn't hear anything else. Seriously. I tried to listen for the piano, but it was like trying to hear a mosquito next to a freight train.
I grew up listening to Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd, and I don't mind loud music although I'd much rather hear worship music at church. I don't like bad music anywhere, though, and that's all I hear at Bellevue now.
When the best the music department has to offer is a bass and drums, and the only reason the congregation sings is so that they won't get chewed out by the minister of music, I really have to wonder about their direction.
jmo
I like to bowl with my eyes wide open rather than play
obey the self appointed king with my head in the sand...
La la la la.....
can someone invite the faithful nursery worker to bowl with us.....
Does anyone have her permission to say her name?????
Oaths
When we sign oaths we presume the future.... which is a sin.
When we sign oaths we obligate God to make our attestations valid.
When we sign oaths we insist that WE foreknow the providence of God to be able to maintain that pledge.
When we sign oaths we commit ourselves to a future behavior over which we have very little control.
When we sign oaths we trivialize the very word of God which tells us not to do it.
When we sign oaths we commit a faithless act which is sin.
When we sign oaths we take a stand and make a promise we can not keep.
When we sign an oath we are not expressing a well meaning intention we are putting our name on a declared certainty, which is a lie.
When we sign an oath we are declaring our loyalty as an absolute certainty over which God has no sovereign influence.
When we sign an oath we declare to mankind and God Almighty that we can decide to maintain our loyalty whether God approves or not.
When we sign an oath we give the devil a foothold of arrogance and pride.
When we sign a loyalty oath we lie.
Oaths are a tool of prideful charlatans to control the well intentioned foolhardy.
Do not sign anything that even looks like an oath.
These are my words which really don’t count for much but the wisdom is from God.
Padroc
Re: Saving Camp Cordova
Did you see that there were Public Discussion Meetings, and if you made a reservation they'd FEED YOU there? There isn't money to keep the camp open, yet they're giving out meals. Doesn't THAT cost oney??? Go figure.
The faithful nursery worker will be attending GBC with some friends of mine this weekend. Perhaps GBC will value her dedication and commitment to children UNLIKE BBC.
This woman is 70 years old, and has never been married. She has basically dedicated her life to all those kids, for over half a century, and THIS is how she is treated?
Could someone( other than BT) help me to understand how this is being like Christ?
I would hope that anyone who has had their children in her care over the years would write her a note and tell her how much they love and appreciate her.
BTW, she purchased, WITH HER OWN money 6 rocking chairs/gliders for the workers in the nursery in the past couple of years.
Oh well, you know..she's old..and BBC doesn't need her anymore..
Wonder when BBC is going to make a commercial trying to attract old folks to the church? Yeah, that'll happen when pigs fly.
Here's a funny one about the Evening of Elegance: The children who won Bailey Scholarships for this new school year are to be recognized at the music evening. Of course they have to have a ticket ($10) to enter the hall or wherever they're having it. Now, what child would come on their own? Of course their parents will attend (more $10's). And, the most exciting thing is that a photographer will take the child's picture while being presented some certificate or something saying they are a scholarship winner. I believe you get to PURCHASE this photo for your collection.
Here is an interesting fact regarding the BBC Orchestra. There are a LOT of familiar faces these days that are in the constantly growing FBC orchestra. A lot of these (adult) musicians used to be faithful in the BBC orchestra. I wonder why they left BBC….
Maybe they got tired of being drowned out by the drums.
Maybe...
Or, maybe they got tired of the arrogance of the individual who directs the BBC orchestra?
Or, it could be they got tired of the lies and arrogance from the pulpit.
Billie Said:
"....this is my opinion, but it sounds like she was determined to hold her position regardless of what the rule of the church was."
There was a time when we used to do it for "Jesus". I guess those days are over , as now we must do it for "Steve Gaines" or be forced to leave.
So much for:
"I like to learn about Jesus so I can be more like Him."
Perhaps someone here can ask Mrs Rogers contact this 70-yr dear woman, who was asked to leave her ministry in the nursery. I would think Mrs. Rogers knows her well. I would think she needs some comforting now? To devote your life to the lives of other people's children, loving them to Christ, and then to be dumped out of the ministry by your very own church, after 50 years of dedicated service, because you refuse to sign a so-named 'loyalty oath' to the pastor and church, is so asinine. And to not even be allowed to say good-bye, the shame of it all! How can anyone say this is of God?
Perhaps this dear saint would like to attend Mrs. Rogers' new church, Faith Baptist Church?
PS: Regarding this loyalty oath, are the deacons required to sign it? I remember last year, many deacons refuse to sign something similar. Will those who refuse to sign, be pushed out of their deacon position? Does anyone know anything about this?
I don't think the deacons have been asked to sign anything else. So far, to my knowledge, it's just been (some of) the coaches, SS teachers, and the nursery and preschool workers.
There's been talk about the ushers being required to sign something as well, but I have no confirmation of that yet.
I'm just wondering when they're going to start requiring the choir and orchestra members to sign it.
The loyalty oath that the deacons refused to sign last year was not nearly as invasive and intrusive as this new loyalty oath. The new one wants your SS# so that they can
nor only do a criminal check, but also a credit check.
In the old days, people "tithed" joyfully, whereas these days, the church wants to see what your income is and then squeeze it out of you. They have come between the giver and Jesus.
The nursery workers were told they should trust the church leadership. I have something to say about that: When I was young and naive, I trusted the church
leadership when I was told that my counseling session would be kept confidential. This counseling session was REQUIRED before I could volunteer. Where did this trust land me? It landed with my file on David Combs desk, for anyone to peruse the personal details of my life.
Here's the moral of the story:
Do not trust them.
" the louder they spoke of their honor, the faster we counted our
spoons"
Hi Billy, I just wanted to remind you that you forgot to tell me who else stands with you; on the issue of GOD taking Dr. Rogers out with cancer, so Brother Steve could take the lead. Would you mind telling me PLEASE if that is the official stand of BBC? I notice you are now saying "we" and "BBC" together. So is that BBC's take on Brother Adrians death? Also, most of the loyalty oaths, credit checks, tithing records, criminal background checks, etc. etc were NOT MAILED. They were handed out at leadership meetings, even the NEW ONES that included the financial background check release. Since you are anxious to sign one, I am sure they have some left. Just look in trash cans all over Bellevue BAPTIST church. As to the criminal background checks, the molestor from Bellevue BAPTIST doesn't have a criminal background. So maybe all the nursery workers' children should be interviewd about their childhoods. I am serious. Only then will we know, since Brother Paul wasn't allowed to be with his own grandkids, it would have been very very easy to find out what is real "background was." AND it would save a lot of paper work. And one more thing I was wondering about...do you ever find it ironic that the people who left are cowards, but, the ones who claim "peace" (well actually you are the only one I have heard say that ) are saying "Now that anyone who is unhappy or disillusioned is out of sight out of mind" we are happy in the halls of Bellevue? I mean I would LOVE for you to open your mind and your GOD GIVEN will, and wonder if this many people could be wrong? Sure you have "new" people who have heard ANYTHING GOES at Bellevue BAPTIST church. Are their tithes and teaching what all of ours were? It is hurtful, as well as very transparent, when you take it upon yourself to invite us all back to our own church. Number one, there is TENSION there as people continue to leave week after week. There are many people ignoring old friends, and dropping out like flies. And also, it is something for you to consider---PEOPLE act a certain way around you,in order to not get you started. I know this for FACT. I mean discernment is not your strong suite. But that is okay, loyalty is a good thing too Mrs. Tapp. All I am saying is, when this all falls apart because you NEED something, or have ANY concerns over there, you will grow in a way you never have before...and I think you will stop beating people over the heads with your Biblical interpretations and just show love and empathy. NOT MANY ladies can justify, with NO FEELING, the death of ANYONE, much less someone who left a very close and grieving family. So, after I prayed about our confrontation, these were my new thoughts. Forgive me for teasing you about a crush, I really didn't know you well enough to remember you have a weak sense of humor and no tolerance whatsoever for being made to THINK.Since you are overcome with joy and peace at Bellevue BAPTIST, you just head on and take it all in. I have a bad feeling for you that these are the good old days. WHEN you come right back at cha' this time, PLEASE tell me where you are hearing the statements about GOD REMOVING DR. ADRIAN FOR BROTHER STEVE. PLEASE. thanks.
The nursery worker that was shown the door, could have saved herself a lot of grief by exiting the building when the hand writing was being splashed all over the wall. Don't wait to be shoved out--leave according to your own schedule.
It is so refreshing to be far removed from the mess on Appling Road.
Dear Truthseekers, I think we need to plan a Christmas Bowling Party and we should invite this dear lady to share this fun time with us. If nothing else, she can know how much her service is appreciated and admired within this circle of "rebels."
concerned,
When I read your first sentence I thought you were referring to BT! Never mind. My pulse rate has about returned to normal now.
At a recent parents' meeting about the youth "Winter Camp," parents who had basic questions -- like if there are going to be chaperones staying in the childrens' rooms -- Phil Newberry ignored all the questions, then impatiently stated that he wasn't going to answer any questions. He stated that if the parents don't trust the "leadership" with their children, they're just being "overprotective."
LOL....sorry Nass! I'm sure BT has many more important things to do than come bowling with us. (After her last post, I would suggest she read Revelation...get past Nehemiah for a while! There's a great big Bible there, ready to ready and study in context!)
No, instead I was referring to our dear nursery lady.....she might like to meet us for a fun holiday get together....she doesn't have to bowl....she can just eat some of the great food!
NBBCOF said:
Phil Newberry ignored all the questions, then impatiently stated that he wasn't going to answer any questions. He stated that if the parents don't trust the "leadership" with their children, they're just being "overprotective."
9:13 AM, October 05, 2007
SOTL'S RESPONSE:
"THE LOUDER THEY SPOKE OF THEIR HONOR, THE FASTER WE COUNTED OUR SPOONS"
With tongue planted firmly in cheek:
Loyalty pledge. What a great idea.
If Jesus had used one He could have avoided that cross thing.
Maybe they are handing out the "loyalty" oath documents to the individuals they are trying to get rid of - like the elderly, the individuals with questions, etc. THAT may be why Billie didn't get one - she HAS to be the most VOCAL supporter of their malfeasance.
"He stated that if the parents don't trust the "leadership" with their children, they're just being "overprotective."
Well, someone HAS to protect them! I have horror stories I could tell about these trips (concerning my own children!)and even worse stories of things that are happening in the BUILDING!
Did you know that these 15-16 year olds are "on their own" most of the time for a WEEK in Gatlinburg?
Without ANY supervision,they walk the streets ALONE at NIGHT!
"Overprotective" - YOU BETCHA!
everybody, all together now:
THE LOUDER THEY SPOKE OF THEIR
HONOR, THE FASTER WE COUNTED OUR SPOONS.
MOM and SICK OF, NOT AT ALL trying to suddenly be a know-it-all, I am really not ok? BUT, they gave out those forms in LARGE groups of people, like take one and pass them down. It is very very very hard to believe "B" didn't have one. SERIOUSLY. Then the forms are down-played, "oh, its no big deal, it is paperwork, don't worry just sign it.....they will be in ONE ROOM with ONE group of employees under lock and key..." And to questions, shrugging of shoulders. They could also be found mixed in with other materials given out... Besides the kids; the middle mangement, directly over these departments are REALLY paying the price for those things. WE MISS THEM AND THEY MISS US. THERE are some phenomenal ladies trying to keep the ratios and staffing tigether over there. BUT they are swimming upstream. I wish they would WALK.
And WHY are there parent meetings if you can't ask questions? Is it a chance to pull the youth from doing all the adults jobs over there and catch up with them a little? AND...how can you FIRE a volunteer?
I trashed my "crush" post because in my attempt to wake "B" I made you guys look bad.
Sorry. And-
I hid my spoons in weeks ago.....
My children have been given to ME to keep safe BY GOD. Not by BBC. If they don't answer questions, and I don't feel comfortable, they aren't going. Period.
Stop: I understand.
Don't you love how these people are so in tune with God that they are able to say God took Dr Rogers so Gaines would have free reign. How did they become so knowledgeable? They don't read their Bibles and they have thrown out all of the truths taught to them over the years, if they did they would be as frustrated as we are. Yet they are appointed to speak for God and to pass judgement. As we were taught in the past, the statistics on death are troubling, the statistics are 100%. None of us no matter how spritual we may be or think we may be will get out of this life alive.
Dr Rogers was 72 and developed cancer. Millions of people die from cancer each year.
"Those who are curious to know how I feel about the older nursery worker being ask to step down"
Actually, there was nothing to be curious about. We know you are loyal to a man and a building.
But Padroc put it best about loyalty oaths but I will add:
In a 'true' Body of Christ, a loyalty oath would never even be considered.
There are a LOT of familiar faces these days that are in the constantly growing FBC orchestra.
I've noticed that too. I hope and pray that all those who are leaving will be able to find a place to use their talents to serve the Lord. To be honest, I always took them and all the time they spent practicing for granted on Sunday mornings.
I'll bet I never do that again.
Greetings!!
Lily pad is back in town. Still has computer death issues, but is trying to get caught up on all I have missed here.
I see Miss Billie still continues in her own world.
Let's bowl soon. SOTL will you reactivate my secret decoder thing?
Lily
Billie said...
Those who are curious to know how I feel about the older nursery worker being ask to step down:
JTB: No one is curious to know what you think about anything.
It is very important for our church to have loyality in the current administration and the best way to know who will and who will not is to have them to sign a oath.
JTB: Nevermind scripture forbidding the signing of oaths. I guess an oath to Steve is more important than being a disciple of Jesus.
She had to go! I don't take pleasure in firing her but BBC doesn't need anyone working inside that can not be trusted to support the church.
JTB: Why did she have to go? Because she loved Jesus and the children more than Steve? May God have mercy on you all! You fired her? If a sweet little old lady working the the nursery for 50 years can't be trusted, there is little hope for you Billie with your evil, sinful ways.
I asked this week why I had not been requested to sign a oath and I was told that I should have. Maybe it was lost in the mail. I want to sign one.
JTB: We will get you one and watch you sign & turn it in.
When Nehemiah worked on the wall he appointed only those who could be trusted to support his work.
JTB: Looking for the part in the bible where they signed an oath...
When the wall was finished he chose out of those men to be the keepers of the gates.
JTB: Trying to see how that applies to watching children in the nursery...
God doesn't choose His enemies to carry out His work.
JTB: So why are you, Steve and the administration trying to do His work?
You nor I would choose someone who hates us to care and feed our children.
JTB: Billie, what makes you say such a hateful thing? Did she say she hated everyone or is that more of your made up junk?
I don't know why she has chosen not to sign the support agreement; I would have quit on my own.
JTB: You should have stopped typing when you said that you "DON'T KNOW!" No, you just keep speculating. You don't know why she wouldn't sign it.
You said you wanted to sign one. Sign it so they will know your credit score and if you are a tither. They need more money from you Billie. Don't let steve down!
Sounds like and this is my opinion, but it sounds like she was determined to hold her position regardless of what the rule of the church was.
JTB: just like you Billie! You will do whatever they ask just so you can be a "teacher". I think the nursery workers motives for not signing were far more pure than yours.
Sounds as though or should I say, implications are that this woman has some issues other than just not wanting to sign a church oath.
JTB: Billie, once again your true colors are showing through. Your hate for this women (who you don't know or know nothing about )is evident because she followed scripture by not signing a loyalty oath(selling her soul) to BBC. You are the one with issues.
I have a great respect for those who are working so faithfully to give us a unified place to worship God.
JTB: Disclaimer: You must sign loyality oath first before respect will be shown or you are allowed to work @ BBC.
I am not saying this just to make things sound good,
JTB: Yes you are.
but things at BBC are good,
JTB: compaired to 3 years ago when the church was full, people getting saved, had a real choir & orchestra, a man of God behind the pulpit with integrety & Holy Spirit annointing..
the crowds are smaller
JTB: Pride and sin does that to churches.
but growing and the atmosphere is very sweet and gets better everyday.
JTB: Source: Billie Tapp.
We are very upbeat and excited over what the Lord is doing.
JTB: They must be reading about other churches and hoping it happens to BBC.
I think when families go through difficult times and work through them together they come out stronger and healthier.
JTB: Usually true. Probally not for BBC.
We are blessed and just wish all of ya'll would find peace and contentment without feeling that you have to stay on the blog casting stones at us (Bellevue)
JTB: OUCH! was that a stone you threw at me FROM Bellevue, Billie??? Why are you constantly on this blog Billie? You spend too much time here. Does you husband know you spend alot of time here?
You forget in your old age Billie, I am a member there too. I am just not as gullible as you. I find more peace and contentment when I am away from BBC. I might stay there just to agravate you Billie.
Wherever you go to church be sure to fully support that church and the pastor!
JTB: Tranlation from 1942: Whatever your country is, fully support that country and the dictator.
While Billie has a good point, your loyality must be to Jesus first. If the church/pastor isn't following scripture, don't follow/support it.
If you can't do that then do the church a favor and leave don't wait for them to have to ask you to step down.
JTB: Billie, are you trying to play God again by telling people when to leave a church? God alone should direct a person to stay or leave, not you or your dictators, oops, I mean your "leadership".
Maybe you should step down from indoctrinating young minds with your loyality to Steve above Jesus message before you are asked to leave. In your words," you would do the church a favor".
JTB,
She's not worth it, Brother.....
we love you.....chill...watch the BP :) :)
It is no mystery as to why SG wants to get rid of the folks with the grey hair. Usually they are perceptive, grounded in the faith, and have a fair amount of wisdom. Also, they are not easily fooled by some upstart that comes on the scene and starts changing every thing.
amazed,
I agree about the "upstart" comment, but I also believe he is more devious than most would have ever believed. I also want to note that the majority of people were and still are upset over the sin in the pulpit and the administration, not the changes. We were all expecting change, SG's sin is what is dividing the church.
gmommy said...
JTB,
She's not worth it, Brother.....
we love you.....chill...watch the BP :) :)
JTB: Thanks gmommy. I guess I am in a cranky mood today and when a crank comes along, I just had to say something. : )
There is an interesting article in USATODAY.COM about a scandal at Oral Roberts University. Just another good example of a non-profit organization with lots of cash flow and no accountability for the way the money is spent. The sad part is the so called religious connection.
Link.
Wow, the last line in that article is tough.....
The leader seems to have shifted in my Christian organizations, hasn't it?
Not that I would ever take sides with Phil Newberry on much at all, considering some of the way he handled (or didn't handle) things when I was in the BBC youth group 15 years ago, but:
I remember the Winter Camps and trips to Gatlinburg. I went on all of them. My friends did, too. In defense of the youth group themselves, and not Phil Newberry, I have to say that all of you who don't think that the environment would be safe for the teens going on these trips should reconsider. There has always been adequate chaperones, and kids have to grow up sometime. Gatlinburg is a very safe environment, considering that most of the people there are in their 'golden' years (sort of like Branson!) and the law enforcement presence is strong, because of the tourist environment.
All I am trying to say, really, is that considering Phil Newberry and the BBC youth group have been taking these trips for over 20 years now should prove that they know what they are doing in this case, and have things under control, and have a proven track record. And if you can't trust the BBC leadership (and I know there aren't many that can be trusted), then at least have faith in the youth themselves. They've gotta grow up sometime.
scion,
It was my understanding this was the middle schoolers' Winter Camp they were discussing. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
And I don't care what age the kids are or how good the chaperones' track record is, if the adults in charge refuse to answer parents' questions, something is seriously wrong.
Scion: Things are very different than 20 years ago. While Gatlinburg is a fairly safe place, I would think, BBC needs to be aware of the liabilities involved in transporting and being in charge of people's kids.
ConcernedSBCer,
Don't kid yourself about the sweet nursery woman. I haven't seen her in a while but she was always very out spoken and fiesty!!!Fun!
I think she should wear the bowling tiara at our next meeting!!!! She can be the guest of honor!!!!
Hey Lily Pad!! Good to see you on...when is your computer getting fixed?!
JTB....chilled out now?????
amazed said...
"The nursery worker that was shown the door, could have saved herself a lot of grief by exiting the building when the hand writing was being splashed all over the wall. Don't wait to be shoved out--leave according to your own schedule."
How would one know that???
"... I do want to be mindful that we have some very gracious nursery workers that have hung in there..." - Bryan Miller, Deacon Chairman (March 25th Business Meeting)
JTB: Righteous Anger....'tis expected.
:-)
Lily Pad,
I sent you an email but realized you may not have a computer with you...or you still on????
JTB....
I thought I was one of the few that used words like "cranky" and "crummy"...
Gopher--You know its time to go when the first word is spoken concerning a "loyalty pledge." In fact, don't walk, run for the exit.
Csbcer,
Can't believe you are talking about Christmas...I'm never ready for it.
I remember last year was the first year I brought out decorations in a long long time...
constant calls about the investigation....info coming out daily....and....I learned about blogs :)
I want to share what I KNOW TO be fact regarding the older woman who had to leave the children's ministry. Everyone who serves in the pre school and children's department are required to sign a release form for a criminal background check and for some reason this woman refused to sign it; therefore she was immediately banned from the area. This is exactly what happened.
While I did not have all of the facts I did pick up on the implication that this woman had some other issue beside just signing a loyality paper.
Everything else I said last night I still maintain.
PS
To all the supporters who have contacted me today thank you guys for being there and praying for me.
Heres a comment made by a student who is transferring from Oral Roberts....
Cornell Cross II, a senior from Burlington, Vt., said he is looking to transfer to another school because the scandal has "severely devalued and hurt the reputation of my degree."
"We have asked and asked and asked to see the finances of our school and what they're doing with our money, and we've been told no," said, Cross who is majoring in government. "Now we know why. As a student, I'm not going to stand for it any longer."
Sounds like the same M.O. We're seeing at Bellevue.
Heres the link to the story:
Oral Roberts Scandal as Reported by Associated Press
No, Billie, with all due respect, you have NO idea what you're talking about. The FACTS about this situation are about to be revealed, so please don't spout off about things you know nothing about.
billie said...
" This is exactly what happened."
Were YOU there? Or is this what you were TOLD?
You sure are gullable, you poor thing.
correction "gullible"
Hey everybody-
Billie rhymes with Willie. And we all know that birds of a feather....
"Billie rhymes with Willie."
Which is totally irrelevant.
Hey, Billie? I bet your information didn't come nearly as "straight" as mine did, but think what you will. My purpose isn't to change your mind about anything. Beating my head against a brick wall would be more productive... and a whole lot more fun.
Have a nice weekend.
BT needs to fly her broom back behind the gate....and swallow the key...hiding it didn't work.
Billie, then is that a "yes", that you said THAT DR. ROGERS WAS TAKEN for Steve's gain? (no pun intended there)-- Is that what you mean when you thank your supporters for backing you up ? Or did yall just shake the haters off? You and your supporters have sure gained momentum for this Forum! Now you send much love their way by way of this evil blog? Even I never came on here until I started hearing about some of the things you were saying. What did the lady SAY when "you" fired her?? That must have been intense. You know, I am wondering why they overlooked her background check for 50 years, wow! AND why she didnt have to fill out her ssn# and $$$ info? SHE DIDNT HAVE TO SIGN the leadership thing? So it is OFFICIAL she was ONLY exposed as someone hiding a criminal background! Jeepers. Hope it's either true or, well, you know the legalities of SLANDER don't you? I bet I posted so far back you missed it, I was trying to make peace with you. AND asking you to say again your view WITH that of BELLEVUE , as to why Dr. Rogers died? Do you maintain God TOOK him, and for whom else do you speak? I am glad you are close enough to the Pastor, Mrs. Gaines, the preschool leadership, etc... to speak their views on all the issues. And even powerful enough to toss out the baby holders. ANd you even went back and got their approval, right? To be on here? SO PLEASE just so I can pray and deal with it, you know? DO YOU MAINTAIN THAT GOD TOOK ADRIAN ROGERS BY DEATH FROM CANCER BECAUSE HE WILLED FOR PASTOR STEVE TO LEAD BELLEVUE? I mean OCT 2 at 1230 PM that is what you said, right??? Its just when you say you stand by everything else you said, wow thats quite a bit, I just want to isolate that one thing for clarity.
Oh, and you know what is really scary? DOES THIS MEAN that ALL the servants: volunteers, choir members, security, ushers, teachers, subs, coaches, and the like HAD DIRTY SECRETS that were about to be revealed? THATS WHY WE ALL LEFT? Spooky! I responded to you, are you responding to me?
Billie Tapp,
HOW DARE YOU talk about the nursery worker when you have NO idea what happened!!! You are trying to taint this precious woman who has given so much of her life to taking care of other people's babies!! You should be ASHAMED of yourself, but you aren't, are you?
Have you given 53 years of your life in ministry to ANYTHING?
You will soon read on here the TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
You can spin and lie and twist and distort, but it will not change the TRUTH.
THE TRUTH HAS A POWER ALL ITS' OWN!!!!
I think that BT has to put others down and find faults with others to elevate herself.
Major self esteem problem going on there, which is probly why she is so easily manipulated by leadership. It's what makes her gullible.
I think she is jealous of the 53 years of service by the nursery worker, and the esteem with which others hold for her.
So in comes BT, to ' trash' the woman, to add insult to injury, with her own made up version of the "facts".
BT, God is watching what you are writing..and I'm quite sure that he does not approve of the lies you are telling about his good and faithful servant!
I see someone holding the gate open...quick...jump behind before it closes again.
It has been a long time since I have posted, but the latest rants by Miss Billie have made it really difficult for us lurkers to remain silent.
Thank the Lord, Bellevue is in my rear view mirror. After a year of much prayer and many tears, my family has moved on to a loving church with a wonderful, Godly pastor. The escape from the tension at Bellevue and putting our focus back fully on Jesus where it belongs have been a total blessing.
Even though I am very disappointed and disgusted by SG and the Bellevue "leadership", some of the people of Bellevue, especially those like BT, are the greatest disappointment.
Those deacons and people spent years under the teaching and leadership of Dr. Rogers, one of the greatest pastors ever. Were they not listening? Did they learn nothing? Do they no longer use God's Word as their guide? How could they accept this travesty?
The fact that BT could say the things she said about Dr. Rogers' death are proof that there is an unholy brainwashing going on in that place.
There are many sincere, God-fearing people who are there because they love that church, consider it home and are just putting the situation in God's hands. I pray their loyalty will be blessed by God and that things will change for the better.
However, there are those like Miss Billie, who are suffering from self-imposed blindness and are caught up in the adoration of a man who is reveling in the fact that he is "winning"! Go back and listen to the Union City mess and you will hear it. He characterized us as being like folks cheering at a football game and ready to put out Hell with water pistols. He was loved that. Pride and enjoyment of his unbridled control scream from that tape! Listen to it again with open ears and you will weep.
Why is it necessary for Miss Billie and the other "Steve Worshippers" to suddenly realize that they never really cared for Dr. Rogers and to disrespect him so much? He's no threat to her hero, and his memory is not going away. With his life and service to Jesus, that man earned every ounce of love and respect we give his memory.
Wasn't SG the same guy, who for years, as he was lobbying and auditioning to be Dr. Rogers' successor, told us how much he "loved" Dr. Rogers, how Dr. Rogers was his hero, his mentor, etc., etc.?"
As soon as SG came to Bellevue it seemed his sole purpose was to wipe Dr. Rogers from our memories.
(I might add that I was one of those thrilled that he was our new pastor, but I woke up!)
SG never mentions Dr. Rogers unless he is using the dear man to make himself look better or add credibility to something he says.
The shabby treatment of Mrs. Rogers and her family by SG and the Bellevue leadership should be enough in itself to make anyone question what is going on behind the scenes. Mrs. Rogers is a lady of Christ-guided discernment and if she felt led to leave, that should be the red flag for everyone.
You have to give SG credit. He made it as clear as he possibly could to the Search Committee that he had plans to "fix" Bellevue, and they didn't flinch. They kept right on begging him and tossing out the money and perks until he just couldn't resist any longer. So much for being "called". Someone called doesn't have to be begged and bribed.
I fear that the Bellevue we knew and loved died with our beloved Dr. Rogers. I promise you Miss Billie, if you believe God TOOK Dr. Rogers in order to give his place as our pastor to SG, you really do need to get on your knees, bury your face in your Bible and beg God to open your eyes. You need help that only the Lord can give you.
It scares me that Bellevue's young women are being taught by someone so lacking in discernment and so desperate to be an "insider".
NASS, I apologize for the length of this post. Now I can breathe again.
Good to see you again, Emma! Excellent post.
I thought this devotional from LWF is something we all would be blessed by.
Keep looking up, my peeps!
Daily Devotional from Love Worth Finding Ministries
OCTOBER 6
BIBLE MEDITATION:
"And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten." Joel 2:25
DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT:
Hosea had a wife whose name was Gomer. She not only committed immorality, but she finally ended up as a prostitute on the street. In the strength of the Lord, Hosea went to her, reclaimed her, forgave her, remarried her and restored her as his bride. What a picture of the restoration of our Lord with us! God has promised to restore us from all the pains of our past, the heartaches from broken relationships, the struggles from defeat, and the frustrations of our lives. All the times we felt broken beyond repair, God has promised to restore. God is in the business of restoring His children into beautiful works of His holiness.
ACTION POINT:
Is there someone in your life who has wandered from the faith and felt the abandonment of friends and family? If so, go to that person today and encourage them in the love of Jesus.
I just saw the BBC commercial with the children for the first time.....(I feel I must state that it was aired during the TLC show "Clean Sweep"- ironic, huh?)....anyway, it sickened me. A church that is doing what it's supposed to be doing with members acting how they are supposed to act, doesn't need commercials. And, truly not meaning to be critical, the kids were just as cute as they could be, but it was so staged and they were obviously being prompted and speaking lines....I think it would do more to make one suspicious rather than impressed.
Sarah Jerkins and Ron Jerkins are both on staff (Their pictures are listed under staff on the Bellevue website). Are these two husband and wife? How long have they been on Belevue's payroll?
Did they have to sign a loyalty oath to follow Steve Gaines' orders or else? Who do they serve?
Do they serve God or man?
How could Sarah Jerkins say the nasty things to this dear lady. How could Sarah Jerkins fire this dear lady who has been serving faithfully in the nursery for over 50 years?
Why would Sarah Jerkins not allow this dear woman to say her goodbyes to her fellow coworkers?
How much money does this duo of Sarah and Ron receive from Bellevue in salaries and benefits? Is the loyalty to Steve Gaines based on threats of being let go?
Where could they go this stage in their life with such comforts as Bellevue affords them?
Is this what the church has turned into today? Do we base our loyalty on man instead of God because of fear of what Steve Gaines may or may not do to us?
What happened to the lessons these two have taught over the years of placing trust in God and not man?
Should we throw out the Sunday School lessons we've heard over and over throughout the years?
Bellevue staff, please repent of your wicked ways and correct the wrongs that have gone on long enough. The church is headed in the wrong direction and your greed, pride, and lack of faith are standing in your way of doing the right thing.
I pray change today. God doesn't have to have Bellevue.
We have all heard it said that we fight not against flesh and blood but spirits, principalities....satan...
This is consistent with the comparison that I make between the war Israel fought and the war we fight. In Israel'c case it was giants and all sorts of heathen in Canaan. In our case it is a spiritual war against sin in our lives. Just as with Israel and Canaan, we must conquer sin and totally irraditcate it to live peacefully in our "Canaan". In His rest.
Now with that in mind, we have to ask if our "Captain of the Host" would have us fight our fight differently from the one He led Israel to fight. Has He changed? I think NOT!
Jos 5:14And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
15And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
That is Jesus...The captain of the host...Our KING.
But, just as Israel had a man that took gold and silver under the ban...today, we have our pet sins that we hang on to. Individually and corporately. Now that is not what we are instructed to do...
Jos 6:21And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
Today, that is every sin, big and small, the big old daddy sin and the little cute one that we love so much. Sin...all sin....(Romans 12:1) And just like Israel, we can't fight that fight by ourselves and face defeat before that sin if we don't fight it like He has taught us...
AS with Achan though....we just have to hang onto the most attractive, alluring sin. In the case of BBC, corporately, we hang onto power, authority...PRIDE. My way or the highway.
We have heard Steve compared to Joshua....If memory serves that was Mrs. Tapp....In Joshua's case...what did Jesus tell Him to do when individual sin was found in the camp that affected the BODY?
Joshua 7:10 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face?
Get off your face and act...why are you praying instead of acting? What was Joshua instructed to do?
Jos 7:13Up, sanctify the people, and say, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow: for thus saith the LORD God of Israel, There is an accursed thing in the midst of thee, O Israel: thou canst not stand before thine enemies, until ye take away the accursed thing from among you.
Now as I see it, that is the pride, arrogance and all the sin that has come from that. We can start with PW. Justice and judgement for a private sin that affected the BODY. Then move on to the public sins committed by the leadership, the secrecy, domineering, steadfast destruction of the BODY.
Now how do we deal with that?
Jos 7:25And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.
26And they raised over him a great heap of stones unto this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Wherefore the name of that place was called, The valley of Achor, unto this day.
Thankfully we have moved past this gruesome custom...Today, we are instructed by Paul to expell them from the church if they won't repent.
1 Cor 5: 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
On an individual level, we have to take each of these sins and remove them from us. In effect, spiritually stone the sin.
On a corporate level, IF...as a BODY...we can't publicly address these types of sin....as a BODY...we will never be able to win the fight that we must! We must come to a place where we can openly and publically adress these issues.
I don't know how we do that without business meetings...By denying business meetings, we are actually saying that we don't trust the Holy Spirit to act in individuals within the BODY to brng about discussion, judgement and discipline within the BODY.
We have leadership that fears a business meeting. Why? Do they fear the outcome? It has been said that they fear that it will get out of hand. Ok, let's just say that the BODY, made up of Christians whose fruits include self control...will get out of control...What then are we saying?
Unfortunately, the time for this is probably past. Now the business meeting would be a rubber stamp aproval of the handling of the sin....or worse yet, an agreement by those present that no sin has actaully occurred.......
But in the end...what does this say about the outcome of the war we fight against sin, principalities, satan?
Jos 7:12Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you.
Billie's young women's class.....
Whoever has concerns about her influence, it may not be very great. I understand her class is rather small. So if she had 6 attendees pre-SG, odds are it is 3 now. That is limited influence in my book.
Emma wrote:I promise you Miss Billie, if you believe God TOOK Dr. Rogers in order to give his place as our pastor to SG, you really do need to get on your knees, bury your face in your Bible and beg God to open your eyes. You need help that only the Lord can give you.
reply:
As usual you anti Gaines people take everything that is said and twist it.
Do I believe that God took Dr. Rogers, who everyone knows I loved and supported just as much as Brother Steve, gave him cancer and killed him so that Brother Steve could come? YOU ARE REACHING !!!!!
I believe that God could have, if He chose to do so, kept Dr. Rogers alive inspite of the cancer. The cancer was not a surprize to Him even thought it was to all of us.
If you do NOT believe that God was with Dr. Rogers during his homegoing, then lady or man you have a serious problem and I feel sorry for you.
This is what I said and I repeat it again for those of you who have a difficult time understanding:
God has a plan for today, this period in time, for Bellevue Baptist Church which did not include Dr. Rogers as the Senior pastor. Consider Moses and Joshua!
Did God tell Moses that his time was up? Did God take Moses on to heaven? If you would take God's Word and study what He teaches instead of taking my words and knit picking them to prove you are justified in your anti beliefs, you would gain some spiritual wisdom.
Many of my Christian friends have pointed out to me that I do not speak on the level of those who have congregated on this blog to discuss their issues. We all have some issues to work on and I confess one of mine is to know when I am casting pearls before the swine. God is teaching me and the BBC Open Forum HE is using to make me wiser.
Be careful what you come back with BECAUSE WISE PEOPLE KNOW THAT SWINE SQUEAL WHEN THEY GET GAUGHT!
Some will squeal, "She is trying to be a smarty pants"
The Wise will say, "She is right, but I wouldn't have the nerve to say it" The Apostle Paul would say it, "To live is Christ, to die is gain"
The anti's turned on Paul and they beat him down but he got back up and told them like it was!
I am not arrogant or trying to be smart I am a woman who loves Christ and I love all people especially those of the household of faith. I realize that I cannot have a relationship with you, but when I reflect upon how I feel in regard to the lack of reconciliation I am reminded of how God must feel. HE forgives all of our debts but only few humble themselves and repent in order to experience the fulness of joy that He desires to have with us. I ask myself, "How many times will God cast His Pearl before the swine?"
Has God already said, "It is useless" We can gain some wisdom but only God knows everything!
Hey Billie, unless you were there, or have spoken to the nursery worker yourself, please stop embarrasing yourself by spouting non-sensical garbage. You have stepped over the line again. I KNOW the facts - I've heard them for myself and what happened to her is CRAP! Sorry, Nass, but it just kills me how stupid some people are. Go ahead Billie, blog about me on the other blog, I don't care. Please be quiet until you have something to say that makes sense!
Now then, has anyone received the 2nd anonymous letter - my mom got one yesterday. I know the postmark is from Jackson, TN and that's all I know. I will read the letter for myself tomorrow so I cannot comment on the content right now. Hey Billie, you haven't read it either, but I'll bet you'll make up some facts about before you do read it.
karen
"Some will squeal, 'She is trying to be a smarty pants.'"
Nope. Can't say that one ever crossed my mind. Oink.
Why in the world after Emma and Ez's wisdom do we have to have the post afterwards???....I am scrolling by....
not going to mix that junk with Ez 's Bible devotion at all.
gmommy said...
Why in the world after Emma and Ez's wisdom do we have to have the post afterwards???....I am scrolling by....
not going to mix that junk with Ez 's Bible devotion at all.
Please ... an association like that gives junk a bad name!
Question .. when Jesus taught us not to cast pearls before swine, did the "swine" represent believers in Christ?
fog,
Sara and Ron Jerkins have been on Bellevue staff for several years. Of course, salaries are confidential, but they live quite well.
Sara has been in the Children's Dept and Ron is in Pastoral Care under Joe Jernigan.
You also said "I pray change today. God doesn't have to have Bellevue."
At this point in time, God does not have Bellevue, Steve Gaines does. Bellevue Baptist Church as it was known (worldwide!) is no more.
Billie said:
The anti's turned on Paul and they beat him down but he got back up and told them like it was!
Ok, MS Billie..there ya go again, pulling the persecution card...you obviously have a bad memory...
Here are but a few of the reasons that people have had enough of your buddy, SG, oh and just to let ya know, EVERYTIME you even so much as hint on this blog that he is being persecuted, I am going to post this list. So if you want me to keep reminding people of how incompetent he is...keep it up:
1. Trespassing on private property in a gated community and climbing over the "itty-bitty" 41" fence, then trying to liken it to an EE visit. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, then Assoc Pastor Mark Dougharty, Chuck Taylor and John Caldwell.
2. Refusing to be transparent in the financial matters of the church
3. Refusing to allow members a membership directory, copies of by-laws, copies of minutes of Board meetings..oh, I forgot, no minutes, no business to discuss, just more evidence that a few corrupt men are handling all the church business as they choose and are accountable to NO ONE!
4. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, Calling a deacon "Hez" after he and his 3 co-conspirators trespassed on the deacons property.
5. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, using the church credit card for personal expenses, and standing before the church on a Wed night and lying about EVER using the church credit card for personal use.
6. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines refusing to abide by Matt 18.
7. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, saying he doesn't preach on Wed nights, needs time with his family..TRUTH..HE HAS HAD SEVERAL SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS AWAY FROM BELLEVUE ON WED NIGHTS FOR EXTRA $$$$ AND SEVERAL WERE CANCELLED WHEN THE WORLD FOUND OUT ABOUT HIS HARBORING A PEDOPHILE MINISTER ON STAFF FOR 6 MONTHS AFTER THE PEDOPHILE MINISTER CONFESSED TO STEVE GAINES AND STEVE GAINES DID NOTHING ABOUT IT, UNTIL THE VICTIM CALLED HIS HAND ON IT!
8. Steve Gaines, Sr Pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church harboring a confessed pedophile minister for 6 months, allowing him to roam the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church and saying "it is under the blood". Steve Gaines only revealing the information when the victim, the son of the pedophile, came to Steve Gaines wanting to know how he could allow him to remain in his position. If not for this brave young man, would PW still be roaming the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church??
9. Steve Gaines bragging to his Gardendale congregation how he "told them everything that is wrong with Bellevue", talking to Union in Jackson bragging about the "information meeting, no discussions" and that he didn't just fall off a cabbage truck!
10. The joke of a monkey-business meeting. The pre-planned motion to adjourn..because of their concern of children staying in the nursery so long and the nursery workers, what a joke!! When the motion was made to have quarterly business meetings and to adopt the SBC's June 2002 resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers one of their pre-planned plants, Mr Angel, made the motion to adjourn. Them bragging about shutting down the mic's. They saw the victim approaching a mic to be addressed and shut down the mic and had the audacity to brag about it!
11. They are concerned about the nursery workers, who were paid help for the monkey business meeting, and the children being in the nursery for maybe an additional 10-15 minutes, long enough to vote on adopting the SBC's resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers and having quarterly business meetings...BUT, STEVE GAINES was NOT concerned about allowing a confessed pedophile roam the halls, exposed to children, anytime he would desire to be, for 6 MONTHS AFTER THE PEDOPHILE CONFESSED TO STEVE GAINES!!!!!!!
12:Fired a 70 y/o nursery worker after 53 years of faithful, dedicated service to the church.
Billie said...
Be careful what you come back with BECAUSE WISE PEOPLE KNOW THAT SWINE SQUEAL WHEN THEY GET GAUGHT!
JTB: You are the only one squealing Billie.
Your squealing with your self rightous, holier than thou attitude that you and BBC is be persecuted.
Billie, need I remind you that while the OT is wonderful, there is also the new testament. It has a book in it that is called the ACTS. Please read it. It will show you what real persecution is.
By the way, no one twisted your words. We just quoted you word for word. If that isn't what you meant, then it is your fault for not explaining it better. I would hate to imagine how you indocternate...I mean teach your SS class if you can't express yourself any better than that.
Accusing people of twisting words when all they did was quote you is twisting a little bit yourself.
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. ~Alexander Solzhenitsyn
SOTL said..
"When the motion was made to have quarterly business meetings and to adopt the SBC's June 2002 resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers one of their pre-planned plants, Mr Angel, made the motion to adjourn."
For SOME REASON, the administration did NOT want that resolution passed. I wonder why? Hmmmmmm?
Reckon there is a "history" or a "past" that someone does not want known? Perhaps even a "present" situation someone is hiding? THERE IS A REASON THIS WAS STOPPED!!! It is only a matter of time before the entire world knows what it is.
Not JMO - Proverbs 28:13 says so.
nrsicjunkster just asked an excellent question, and it is a question I was just about to ask:
Question .. when Jesus taught us not to cast pearls before swine, did the "swine" represent believers in Christ?
Absolutely not. And I think Jesus probably has a pretty strong opinion on someone talking about His bride in such language. Just a hunch.
I don't care how much you disagree with a brother or sister in Christ on an issue, you are accountable to God for your interaction with that person. Jesus said people will recognize His disciples by the love they have for one another. That doesn't mean we will always agree on everything, but to start calling your brothers and sisters "swine" is appalling, and if you think that the Lord is pleased with your assessment, you need to get off the blog and into the Word.
Is being called "swine" any worse than being called "skunks"? She's used both terms to describe us.
Of course, Donna Gaines used the term "trash," so Billie is just following her example.
Matthew 12:36
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,
According to the 5:00 P.M. news on channel 5, Two Rivers Baptist Church in Nashville is to have a vote tomorrow concerning the status of their pastor. Shall he go or shall he stay. The implications of this vote may be far reaching.
Karen, I received the letter yesterday. IMO it is well-written
and once again compares scripture with what is currently happening at BBC - the mishandling of God's Word and the abuse of authority. However, those like Billie will trash it and those who agree - well that's like preaching to the choir. Maybe, just maybe, there will be a few whose eyes will be opened.
-----------------------------
Emma, thank you so much for your
clear, concise and thought provoking post. It is a keeper.
Karen,
Heard the letter was right on the mark!
Thanks once again to the writer for sharing his/her heart and shedding light.
Question .. when Jesus taught us not to cast pearls before swine, did the "swine" represent believers in Christ?
11:46 AM, October
Funny this came up. I heard an exposition on this not too long ago. Who are the swine and dogs Jesus is referring to?
Not unbelievers because they do not care enough to turn on you and trample you. Ironically, it has been suggested Jesus was referring to those who pervert and twist the gospel for personal gain. Hypocrites.
If you look at the flow of Matthew 5-7 Jesus is teaching to His followers. In Mattew 6 He is comparing how they should be as compared to the hypocritical Pharisees who have been their models.
As in Matthew 7 we see, Not everyone who says, Lord Lord is actually saved. This is hard teaching and should give everyone pause to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. And to only follow Christ...not men. And to NEVER sign a loyalty to pledge to a church or a person.
A NOTE TO THE MODERATOR:
Is it possible to move posts around? There is one on 10-02-07 where that woman says "GOD REMOVED HIM!" In regards to Brother Adrian. Now she is all over the web (IRONICALLY) telling people she never said that! If her rants of denial could be posted closer to her very own words, maybe it would be helpful. MAYBE someone is using her screen name? Surely she isn't just denying something she wrote in plain english? Oh well if not thanks anyway.
She made that statement 10-2-7 at 12:30 PM.
On October 2, at 12:30 PM, Billie Tapp wrote this:
"God's will was for BBC to change or otherwise Dr. Rogers would have remained alive and in control. God removed Him!"
These are her EXACT words.
Perhaps Billie rolled out the barrell that day and can't remember what she said?
Everybody now, all together:
Roll out the barrel, we'll have a barrel of fun
Roll out the barrel, we've got the blues on the run
Zing boom tararrel, ring out a song of good cheer
Now's the time to roll the barrel, for the gang's all here
Ex 34:12Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
13But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
14For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
15Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
16And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
If you are interested in the convenant/oath folks are being required to sign, take a look at Joshua chapter 9. You may be able to see where the play book came from.........
Hey folks...If you want to see how bad things are in some churches, read the article on page A6 of todays CA. Even Focus On The Family is confused about the matter.
I'm speechless.
That article......I thought we were supposed to be in the world but not of the world. If we look the same as everyone else, why would someone want to find out WHY we are different? They wouldn't, because we aren't different!
*shakes head* I have no understanding of why a church would host a Halo party.
When the trolls are tolling,
and the dingbats are dinging,
and the obnoxious are too amplified for comfort…
When the world is too much with us,
and banging our heads on keyboards tempt us,
and sounds of The Twilight Zone begin in our brains…
Shake it off with The Stress Pig! CLICK on the PIG’S NOSE and shake it off! ;-)
Mary
I love Halo as much as the next guy, but video games like that have no place in Church.
Whats next....Mortal Kombat at Summer camp?
Mary: That's great!
Mary,
That needs to be the official truth seekers chorus or cheer (or whatever it was when we learned the Girl's scout thing)!!.....Very appropriate...and cool!! Thank you!
Love the pig! I totally relate!
THERE'S A NEW TOPIC, SHEEPS! PLEASE MOVE UP!
Thank you,
NBBCOF
Just so that we don't forget:
BIllie said:
God's will was for BBC to change or otherwise Dr. Rogers would have remained alive and in control. God removed Him!
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