Information about the 2007 SBC Annual Meeting, including resolutions, photos, and links to the live internet feed, can be found here.The associated blog is here.
Wade Burleson's motion regarding a study (what's there to study?) about the feasibility of the SBC maintaining a list of sexual predator ministers from within its ranks:
Preventing Child Abuse Is A Calling For Us All
At the San Antonio Convention this Tuesday morning, at 8:40 a.m., I [Wade Burleson] plan to introduce the following motion:
“I move that the Southern Baptist Convention requests the Executive Committee to conduct a feasibility study concerning the development of a database of Southern Baptist ministers who have been credibly accused of, personally confessed to, or legally been convicted of sexual harrassment or abuse, and that such a database be accessible to Southern Baptist churches in order to assist in preventing any future sexual abuse or harrassment.”
640 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 640 of 640concerned,
I don't see nothing wrong with it. I am bringing it to the storehouse. God's storehouse isn't just @ 2000 Appling Road.
I am being fed at the little church. The fellowship is sweet. Just because my name is not on the rolls means nothing. I am not sure in the early church they had membership rolls like we do. Not knocking membership rolls but I am just saying.
My point being that we should continue to tithe the church . It doesn't have to be BBC.
That's my baby girl yall!!!!
welcome to the blog gmommysgirl! :)
GMommysGirl: Welcome!!! She is an amazing woman. Thanks for joining us!
johntheb wrote:
"I send my check to the little church in Munford that I was interim Pastor at."
Likewise, we send ours to a little church in an adjacent state to which we have family ties, a church that really and truly needs and appreciates it. I know others who are directing their tithes similarly.
And you know what? I agree with him that the tithe should go to the church. What you give to the seminary, etc. should be above and beyond your tithe. However, to say that those who don't give their tithes to BBC just because they're (for now) members there are "not in the will of God" is over the top.
Unlike SG claimed in his sermon tonight, I haven't heard anyone say he is withholding his offering completely.
My tithe is between me and God. Period. It's none of SG's business!
On a similar note, did anyone else receive three sets of offering envelopes from BBC this month? Here's a suggestion for cutting down on printing and postage costs: Don't send out envelopes unless a family specifically requests them, and send them out, say, once every quarter instead of monthly (or worse, three times in the same month).
"I am sure that will bring a new sermon from SG in the next couple of weeks but so be it."
No doubt.
Where did the Gardendale post go??
I received 2 packs of offering envelopes.
I guess since the coffers are low, they want us to give twice as much.
I read the post that Rob Mullins preached at First Baptist this morning. When did Dr. Corr leave & where did he go?
I wonder why the female Assoc. Pastor did fill the pulpit or one of the women guess preachers? They had a rabbi fill the pulpit not long ago.
Makes ya wonder.
not guess women preachers...guest women preachers...man I can't spell!
gmommy...Gardendale post?
What'd it say?
No matter if you call BBC and request that no envelopes be sent in the mail, they send them anyway.
Tithing in the "interim" of moving membership from one church to another is not addressed in Scripture that I can find. So, if you are not attending your member church, but are visiting until you are lead to join another church, then tithing is still a commandment for the believer, but the receiver of your tithe would be the entity that God lays upon your heart. JMO
FYI - name change, please forgive me NASS, but I just had to.
a/k/a Lily, BLT, and 'the buzzard'.
lily: I like Water Lily best!!!
Ima,
It was about narcissism.
Tithing.....
Those that have been around from the beginning don't want to hear it again. I don't want to go into it again and don't really have the patience for it. So... I am not trying to start a discussion about tithing.
However, I suggest a careful reading of anything having to do with tithing. We have been beat with everything from Abraham and Mecheldizech (sp) to Malachi (robbing God) and everything in between.
Abraham did not tithe. This was before the LAW had been announced by Moses. He gave all the spoils of the battle away..... some went to Mecheldizech as a tribute not a tithe.
God tells Israel through Isaiah in chapter 1 that he is tired of their sacrifices......tells them he does not want them. Malachi is talking to the same folks. People were withholding tithes and offering blind and lame animals for sacrifice.
Please look at Isaiah 1, and....
1 Sam 15:22 Samuel said," Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrificesAs in obeying the voice of the LORD?Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,And to heed than the fat of rams.
1 Samuel 15:21-23 (in Context) 1 Samuel 15 (Whole Chapter)
Jeremiah 44:23
"Because you have burned sacrifices and have sinned against the LORD and not obeyed the voice of the LORD or walked in His law, His statutes or His testimonies, therefore this calamity has befallen you, as it has this day."
Jeremiah 44:22-24 (in Context) Jeremiah 44 (Whole Chapter)
The Law was fulfilled by Jesus. Gentiles....that is us, are not under the law......Acts, Romans are all about the "church " and our obligation to give. That giving is to be centered around love.....Meeting peoples needs.....
I am certainly not saying that giving is not required. However, the 10% stuff has been beat into us with twisted, self serving scripture to build man's shrines and empires.
If you give out of your abundance, give to meet needs and give out of heartfelt love and to obey what you are lead to do....Great!
If you give because a preacher beats it out of you, quotes scripture incorrectly and then hoards the money you give.......you are sacrificing.........
That is not a good thing to do.....especially if we don't obey his statutes and commandments.
An interesting study can be found in Matthew 17:24 ff. Should sons of the king pay a temple tax?
Even deeper than that.....what is the significance of Peter being told to go to the sea and catch a fish to find a coin in it's mouth......
Don't pay the temple tax folks...give out of your heart in obedience to Almighty God......
concernedSBCer said...
all2Jesus: But that keeps them riled up to beat the sheep they cross in everyday life.
Perhaps. But another ironic thing is that whenever Steve pounds the heavy hand, he raises more eyebrows than support. And does he really think people are withholding their tithe because they're sitting on the fence? That with a little bullying they'll relent?
Even after we knew there were problems, we continued to tithe at BBC because we considered it giving the Lord. We only quit giving it to BBC after becoming convinced we should not support rank apostasy, nor throw gasoline on a fire by handing money to a cabal of power brokers with no accountability. Neither the authority of scripture nor the power of reason hold sway with these businessmen. For them, money is the only thing that talks. The rest is lip service.
all2jesus
Amen!
I doubt that sermon prompts anyone to fall in line. It just further demonizes those who question the leadership.
I know I am not any less inclined to support Love Worth Finding, Lifechoices, MABTS, and other entities that are accomplishing God's will on this earth. Atleast until we move our membership.
His sermon topic DID cause me to stop and think.......but I suppose it would be in poor taste to send my empty tithe envelopes to Steve's attention.....
Speaking of beating up on people......
Some may have not understood why gmommy's girl jumped in here on a 2 day old topic.
Sorry...she has had company and we are behind.
I do keep her updated about my blog friends and different theology things we discuss...she and her husband have been to seminary. She has also had the advantage of Christian school and college.
I didn't have those opportunities so when something new or different comes up I discuss it with her.
Some of the posts on our "earth day" were not only "new theology" (the dominion thing from Mary)
but sparked some uncomfortable posts towards our friend Cakes.
That is where my daughter was coming from so you understand.
I understand that some are new to the blog and don't understand that he is our friend. Cakes has been nothing but supportive and loyal and encouraging when SOME OF US were in the pits of sadness.
He has attended meetings and services to stand with us.
I believe he was treated with condescension and not like he is the friend that he is.
My discussions about these 2 things prompted my daughter to post.
Hope that explains better.
I am sad that cakes was treated as if he were a stranger to us and implied he didn't have substance.
I disagree. I am sad to think that he may feel disappointed by the truth seekers that he has joined with.
I know this is not on tithing and I apologize...
SG is a control freak and tells everyone what to think. Fact.
I care very much that we NOT be insensitive and hurtful...or arrogant... in the way WE treat each other here.
Tithing is unscriptural under the new covenant.
http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
An exerpt......
""HOW ARE WE TO PAY THE CHURCH BILLS
IF THE PEOPLE DON’T TITHE?"
I get asked that question regularly. I tell them all the same thing: "Pay your church bills the same way I pay my living expenses—with a check." Here’s the thing: You don’t need to lie and deceive and pervert the word of God in order to pay church expenses.
Why doesn’t your pastor just ask the people to contribute toward paying the church expenses? I can tell you why. A few do, but most don’t. And why is that? It is because those who teach false doctrines to exact money illegally from their congregation don’t have faith to trust their people to contribute voluntarily out of love. They only know how to teach the Old Testament laws, which are carnal, and therefore don’t know how to teach the New Testaments laws, which are SPIRITUAL."
Scripture says God loves a cheerful giver. No one gives cheerfully under compulsion. Do you pay taxes cheerfully or grudgingly? I don't know about you, but I prepare my tax returns so as to pay the lowest tax possible. I am not generous to the government.
But we are to give to the Lord willingly and cheerfully -- of our free will. Search the scriptures and you will find the phrase "free will" only in relation to one thing: giving. With the new covenant in Christ, new and wonderful light on giving was taught by the Apostle Paul. I urge you to read 2 Corinthians 8:1-15
In stark (and apostate) contrast to this teaching, Steve Gaines compels everyone he can to tithe. He threatens staff with their jobs. He threatens deacons with their positions. And anyone he can't compel, he beats over the head from the pulpit. He is robbing these sheep, not merely of their money, but of their joy in giving. If someone compels you to do something, you can no longer do it because you want to.
all2Jesus: What an excellent point. You are exactly right.
"If someone compels you to do something, you can no longer do it because you want to."
Brillant.
It really hacks me off when pastors make the statements that we should give in order to receive. I don't think that is necessarily true. We are blessed in many different ways, not always monetarily. And we shouldn't give with the mindset that if we give, God will give us back more.
That's not true giving. JMHO
Finance Guy,
I admire your cast iron stomach to actually sit through that abuse!
finance guy said
How many times have we heard Steve preach against legalism (at least in general terms?)
I don't believe I have ever heard a more legalistic message on tithing than I did tonight.
Piglet says:
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. It's hard to be consistent went you stray away from God's standard and start making up your own rules.
Steve changes with the wind - depending on what benefits him at the moment.
Reminds me of those who want to save the spotted owl but are for abortion....
concernedSBCer said...
It really hacks me off when pastors make the statements that we should give in order to receive. I don't think that is necessarily true. We are blessed in many different ways, not always monetarily. And we shouldn't give with the mindset that if we give, God will give us back more.
More than anything, we lay up treasure in heaven.
Luke 12:32-33
Luke 18:22
taking my invisable self to bed now.
Piglet said...
Steve changes with the wind - depending on what benefits him at the moment.
Reminds me of those who want to save the spotted owl but are for abortion....
Exactly. He reminds me constantly of another opportunist who resolutely flapped with the prevailing breeze and even had a variable definition of "is".
tThank you exekiel for your post. It is so important to get what the Word of God teaches, out there! There is no LAW concerning tithing in the NT. Tithing was for ISRAEL when she was under LAW. Why is it so difficult to find someone who knows the Word and that we are the Church, the body of Christ and not Jews under the Mosaic LAW!
The entire book of Gal. is pounding home the FACT that if you choose to live under Law, or the principle of law, then GRACE PROFITS YOU NOTHING. Isn't that scary enough to stick to the Word and not teach a false doctrine on giving?
We are told in the NT to let each man PURPOSE IN HIS HEART what he is to give, and to give it hilariously! Note, the Lord teaches that it is something between you and HIM, not a third person, and especially a third person telling you to live under the Law that was given to only one people and only one nation: Israel.
We are to decide how much we want to give to the Lord, and our love of Him will determine that. I heard this morning on radio that Wesley, I think it was, was giving 87 percent of his income to the Lord when he died. Perhaps some widow gives a smaller percent. But no matter, the Word of God does NOT teach store-house nor does it teach tithing for the NT believers.
I know some believers that have a bank account and put money in it each week, as the Lord prospers them and as they purpose in their hearts. That money goes to where the Lord leads. It has gone to single mothers in need or missionaries or perhaps a local church.
God is the One to provides for HIS Work. If money dries up, you better be certain that it is the LORD who has dried it up.
GOD'S WORK DONE IN GOD'S TIME receives every cent it needs to accomplish HIS WILL.
When there is begging for money going on and intimidation for it, that you can know for certain it is not of the Lord.
God also tells us in the NT that we are NOT to give out of necessity or pressure.
Goodnight, "invisible" gmommy! Goodnight, 'cakes -- wherever you are! Thank you for being our friend. We may not always agree (I don't know of anyone I agree with 100% of the time), but I've always found your comments to be thought-provoking, respectful towards us, quite often humorous, and more often than not, right on the money. (There, I made my comment relate to tithing!) Your comments certainly aren't void of substance, and I've had to consult a dictionary more than once. You've definitely expanded my vocabulary.
"Padroc" was right when he said when people on here say they love you, they do. I have met so many wonderul people only because of all this mess, and while it's been painful at times, I wouldn't trade the last ten months for anything. Well, most of it at least. There have been a few experiences I would just have soon have done without, but even those have been opportunities for learning and growth.
I echo "gmommy's" sentiments when she said, "I care very much that we NOT be insensitive and hurtful... or arrogant... in the way WE treat each other here." We've got quite enough sheep beating coming from the leadership without inadvertently wounding our own!
Nass: AMEN!
I think my link was broken earlier.
Here it is again.
"Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant"
Post a Comment