Monday, June 18, 2007

What is Idolatry?


I came across this interesting blog today. There are even photos of the "Donna Gaines" display from Bellevue!

When I think of the idols described in the Old Testament, I can't help but be reminded of the "Statue of Liberation," the 72-foot-tall "altered" replica of the Statue of Liberty that was erected in front of a church on Winchester Road and Kirby Parkway in southeast Memphis. According to
this article, this statue was "inspired by a Memphis church that has three giant crosses." Hmmm... I wonder which church that could be?


I'm not saying all of these displays are bad. (Some border on tacky but aren't necessarily bad.) They are what they are -- symbols. It's just important to be careful not to make symbols into more than they are.


4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:4-6


*******

408 comments:

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sheeplessatbbc said...

Good morning truth seekers! I'm first today, yeah!!

Our Three Crosses at Bellevue Baptist Church are a beautiful testimony to everyone who passes on I-240.

When we moved to our new location the Crosses were in the plans in the beginning and it took several years before they were erected.

At midnight 1999/2000 the crosses were lit, what a magnificient sight. Remember, that was when we were all concerned the "world" systems might crash. They lit right on cue.

Dr. Rogers prayed and when he ended his prayer the crosses were lit at the stroke of midnight.

At the very moment the crosses were lit a trucker came down the interstate and blew his horn twice...can't you just hear Dr. Rogers saying, YES!!!!

That is what the Crosses at Bellevue are all about, for the Crosses to be a testimony to all that pass by them, the locals, the weary travelers, the disheartened, the lonely, the weary, those that may have lost all hope.

You have to wonder how many people's lives have been changed just seeing the crosses, how many people have accepted our Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

JESUS IS LORD

concernedSBCer said...

Sheepless: The crosses were a comfort to my daughter when her dad and I were going through a difficult divorce. He lived past BBC and when she would be driving out with him, wanting with all her heart to be home, those crosses reminded her she was not alone. She has told me time and again what a comfort it was to be reminded that Jesus was with her wherever she went. That has nothing to do with SG, or BBC really, other than BBC had the vision and the resources to place them. In my opinion, for her the crosses were not an idol, they were a remembrance. That's what I believe they ere intended to be, just as you say.

Other items at BBC do cross the line, I think.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Concernedsbcer,

You are right, some things at Bellevue Baptist Church do cross the line.

I cannot believe this shrine to Donna Gaines..it is nothing short of replusive and sickening to have such "TRASH" in the display case of our church. Somebody needs to take it out! Oh, that's Donna's job isn't it, she's used to taking out the "TRASH", guess she doesn't know it when she sees it.

Of course we had King Steves shrine in there before Donna's, his little lunch box, football uniform, etc.

Churchmouse said...

You know what? Maybe Steve Gaines was telling the truth when he told the BBC congregation that he had never read the Purpose Driven Life. He would have known "it's not about you," Steve.
If things had gone well for the Gaines family at BBC, we would probably have forgiven them for this display of family pride. It seems to me these displays are another example of very bad judgement. When you have disrespected, deceived, divided, and devoured a church, you don't display your cute baby portraits to them to appease the congregation. Did the Gaines family not realize how this would be received?
This display case is so inappropriate -- especially under the circumstances. But, it is a clear illustration of their "MO".
(just my opinion)

Karen said...

Please remember the crosses were a gift to Bellevue, tithes didn't pay for them. A man in Florida donated them. Just so we don't forget!

karen

Churchmouse said...

Did anyone see the Wonders Series presentation of the THE TITANIC when it was in Memphis? The display case brings that to mind.
Sad....

Karen said...

Mouse!

Hey there! Haven't seen/blogged with you in a while. Missed you! :)

Does anyone know who runs the blog about idolatry? It's very interesting to say the least. Glad to see someone other than "us" sees something wrong with the ode to Donna.

karen

prayingcolossians1 said...

Does anyone remember the story in the paper about the family, (I think they may have been Muslim??) who had lost their home during hurricane Katrina?They were driving on I-40 and saw the crosses, and they knew they would find help at Bellevue. The crosses stood as a beacon of hope for many people. The Lord provided shelter and compassion through the people of Bellevue who reached out in love to those in need. Many lives were changed during that time, both of those in need and those members of Bellevue who gave of themselves to help others. People may have been drawn in by the crosses, but they were shown the powerful love and grace of a living, almighty God. When I see those crosses, I am reminded of something I used to hear from the pulpit every Sunday--"Come to Jesus..."

On the other hand, I'm not sure what the "shrine" in the display case would lead anyone to, other than to be "impressed" by the outward beauty and worldly accomplishments of a mortal woman. This is really disturbing!

JMHO.

Churchmouse said...

Hey, Karen.
=) thanks! I just took a break.
I looked at that blog. No, I don't know who has that. It is very interesting.

greenmachine said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
greenmachine said...

greenmachine said...
Rod Almondmartanti said...
tThank you exekiel for your post. It is so important to get what the Word of God teaches, out there! There is no LAW concerning tithing in the NT. Tithing was for ISRAEL when she was under LAW. Why is it so difficult to find someone who knows the Word and that we are the Church, the body of Christ and not Jews under the Mosaic LAW!

The entire book of Gal. is pounding home the FACT that if you choose to live under Law, or the principle of law, then GRACE PROFITS YOU NOTHING. Isn't that scary enough to stick to the Word and not teach a false doctrine on giving?

We are told in the NT to let each man PURPOSE IN HIS HEART what he is to give, and to give it hilariously! Note, the Lord teaches that it is something between you and HIM, not a third person, and especially a third person telling you to live under the Law that was given to only one people and only one nation: Israel.

We are to decide how much we want to give to the Lord, and our love of Him will determine that. I heard this morning on radio that Wesley, I think it was, was giving 87 percent of his income to the Lord when he died. Perhaps some widow gives a smaller percent. But no matter, the Word of God does NOT teach store-house nor does it teach tithing for the NT believers.

I know some believers that have a bank account and put money in it each week, as the Lord prospers them and as they purpose in their hearts. That money goes to where the Lord leads. It has gone to single mothers in need or missionaries or perhaps a local church.

God is the One to provides for HIS Work. If money dries up, you better be certain that it is the LORD who has dried it up.

GOD'S WORK DONE IN GOD'S TIME receives every cent it needs to accomplish HIS WILL.

When there is begging for money going on and intimidation for it, that you can know for certain it is not of the Lord.

12:46 AM, June 18, 2007

Reply:

I was a witness to this: Dr. Rogers was being honored for, I believe was his 20 or 25 years of service in BBC. Dr. Rogers parents attended the occassion. My wife and I were standing in the foyer where a huge poster of Dr. Rogers was placed. Dr. Roger's mother and father walked by and made their displeasure very well known. His mother was angry and this was her statement, "Adrain is not God but these people are trying to make one out of him"

I do not agree with everything that has occured over the past couple of years but what is right is right and I can not let this topic go without addressing it.

BBC has always set up displays of it's pastors and included the wives. If it was right for Rogers then it is also right for the Gaines.

Second comment is regarding the message last night on tithing. I personally have heard Dr. Rogers preach the exact same sermon and I reseached my notes last night. Dr. Rogers expounded on tithing and one of the notations I wrote was his quote, "don't expect a blessing if you rob God of His tithe"

Personally, I find a few things to complain about but these two topics are critical of both Dr. Rogers and Gaines and we do not need to go there !

10:26 AM, June 18, 2007

watchman said...

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imaresistor said...

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New BBC Open Forum said...

gmachine wrote:

"BBC has always set up displays of it's pastors and encluded the wives. If it was right for Rogers then it is also right for the Gaines."

Funny, I don't recall ever seeing a display of, say, Mrs. Lee in a cheerleading outfit or Mrs. Rogers' beauty contest trophies and tiaras. I think the point the writer of that blog was making was, where is God honored in all that? Perhaps there just wasn't room for Him after they fit in all the other stuff. :-(

"Dr. Rogers expounded on tithing and one of the notations I wrote was his quote, "don't expect a blessing if you rob God of His tithe"

I don't think anyone would disagree with that other than perhaps whether or not the 10% tithe should be standard. But Steve Gaines said your tithe must go to the church in which you have your membership or else you're "out of the will of God." I still contend it's none of SG's business where I send my tithe! He has no business checking up on staff and members to see if they're "tithing" or making it a requirement before someone can sing a solo or be an usher. It's embarrassing to even contemplate a pastor having the gall to consider doing something like that, much less following through on it. I don't know how he'd even know if people weren't tithing unless (1) they didn't contribute to BBC at all (guess we've been guilty of that the past few months, but we have continued to tithe), or (2) he knew their incomes. Also, some people contribute cash in the collection plate. If it's not in an envelope with the person's name on it, the church has no record of who gave it.

Maybe when you agree to have your salary and perks and contributions published and analyzed, Dr. Gaines, we'll talk. Until then, sir, it's none of your business! As you so often say about the actions of the leadership, if they're not in the will of God, God will take care of it. Well, I'm just as certain God will "take care of" me if I'm not giving to the place and in the spirit that I should be.

greenmachine said...

I shall remind you that it was Dr. Roger's quote after prior to each collection, "If you are a visitor your tithe does not belong here, it belongs with your local congregation"

I disagree with you whole heartedly on this topic and I have the tapes of Dr. Rogers to back up my statements. Our tithes belong to the local congregation where our membership exist. I have not withdrawn my tithes from BBC because I believe this and as long as my membership is there I will continue to tithe.

Also there were several pictures of Dr. Rogers and Mrs. Rogers on display of their early life. Most everyone knows that it was. Football, cheerleading, and etc.
I disagree with your threads and I believe that those who read these topics will mock.

fogmachine said...

greenmachine,

Do you base right vs. wrong on what Dr. Rogers and the leadership that still exists today do or do you base what's right on what the Word of God says?

Please stop trying to trash a Godly man like Dr. Rogers. You have stooped to a new low by bringing in his parents now.

You have no shame.

Last night's sermon was another attempt to strongarm the sheep into turning over their assests to a bunch of thugs whose favorite saying is "it's none of your business what the pastor makes or who we give money to;"

I always thought the congregation had a right to that info. Silly me!

ezekiel said...

Greenmachine,

I disagree. I think we do need to go there. We have heard many times that what we do or what should be done is based on what Dr. Rogers said. Now we have another set of people growing into a Dr. Gaines said mentality. It is certainly topical.

Idolatry. Dr. Rogers parents saw it. But we did not.

We hear folks come on here and talk about how much people sacrificed and gave to build BBC. They have too much invested to leave. Idolatry.

The WORD is pretty clear, the OT prophets told us again and again what idolatry is.....we just don't want to listen. When Dr. Rogers, C.H Spurgeon, Dr.Fill IN THE BLANK become more than a man in God's service and our relationship with them becomes our "guiding light" we practice Idolatry. And then who's fault is it. Dr. Rogers, Spurgeon, fill in
the blank?

No. We make the same mistake Israel did. They turned to kings and priests to be their relationship with God. The people did not want anything to do with the mountain, but wanted Moses to be their relationship remember?

So as long as we sacrifice to build our "high place" and find a man willing to be our relationship with God, we can live the way we want all week and go to the the "high place" on Sunday, throw our "sacrifice" in the plate and live the way we want to the rest of the week.

Just like Israel, we worship idols in our high places and don't worship Him in the TEMPLE. Inside our Living Temple. In our Heart and Mind.......

Dr. Rogers was just a man. Dr. Gaines is just a man. Worshipping one does not make it right to worship the other.

Please understand that I mean absolutely no disrespect to Dr. Rogers or Dr. Gaines or any one else. Only by turning to worship God and by following the WORD will we ever be free to love as Jesus did and worship as Jesus did. Then we become a brother...A son of God.

New BBC Open Forum said...

gmachine wrote:

"I disagree with your threads and I believe that those who read these topics will mock."

You have every right to disagree, but you don't know my family's situation and have no right to judge where we choose to give our tithe, just as I have no right to tell you where (or how much) you should give. Likewise, Steve Gaines has no right to be checking up on any of us.

This is a blog, and I choose the thread topics. From time to time I use people's suggestions; most of the time the ideas are mine. If you don't like them, no one's making you read them, much less comment. "Mock" all you want. We've seen it before, so it won't be the first time.

gmommy said...

Right on Nass!

All the REAL "dissenters" can do is deflect or say "hate filled lies".
boring.....

johnthebaptist said...

greenmachine said...
I shall remind you that it was Dr. Roger's quote after prior to each collection, "If you are a visitor your tithe does not belong here, it belongs with your local congregation"

I disagree with you whole heartedly on this topic and I have the tapes of Dr. Rogers to back up my statements. Our tithes belong to the local congregation where our membership exist. I have not withdrawn my tithes from BBC because I believe this and as long as my membership is there I will continue to tithe.

Also there were several pictures of Dr. Rogers and Mrs. Rogers on display of their early life. Most everyone knows that it was. Football, cheerleading, and etc.
I disagree with your threads and I believe that those who read these topics will mock.

11:10 AM, June 18, 2007


Reply: Green, I also have those tapes/CD's and I don't neccessarly disagree with you. I do believe that God will bless if we tithe. However, if you believe that the money is being mis-spent ( evidence is plain but I won't list for saving time sake) you have an obligation to not sqander God's money. I am a steward of what God gave me. If I know it is being spent on things that displeases God, guess what? I have an obligation to Him to not give it to them. My tithe is going to God's work at a local church that I used to be Interim Pastor. I know where my money is going because they have open business meetings and we pray and vote on where to spend God's money.

Dr. Rogers would also tell us that if money is being given grudgingly, then just keep it. God neither needs or wants it. If I give it to BBC, it would be grudgingly.

If that offends you, then you can come up to me and appologize and I will forgive you...Also from Dr. Rogers.


The "shrines" you described about previous pastors were not shrines but milstones of their ministries because they we part of BBC history.

gmommy said...

REPEAT......
The "shrines" you described about previous pastors were not shrines but milstones of their ministries because they we part of BBC history.

Very good point to be emphasized again.

New BBC Open Forum said...

ezekiel wrote:

"The WORD is pretty clear, the OT prophets told us again and again what idolatry is.....we just don't want to listen. When Dr. Rogers, C.H Spurgeon, Dr.Fill IN THE BLANK become more than a man in God's service and our relationship with them becomes our "guiding light" we practice Idolatry. And then who's fault is it. Dr. Rogers, Spurgeon, fill in the blank?

"No. We make the same mistake Israel did. They turned to kings and priests to be their relationship with God. The people did not want anything to do with the mountain, but wanted Moses to be their relationship remember?

"So as long as we sacrifice to build our "high place" and find a man willing to be our relationship with God, we can live the way we want all week and go to the the "high place" on Sunday, throw our "sacrifice" in the plate and live the way we want to the rest of the week.

"Just like Israel, we worship idols in our high places and don't worship Him in the TEMPLE. Inside our Living Temple. In our Heart and Mind......."


I haven't handed out one of these lately, but those comments are painfully right on. Thank you.

gmommy said...

HOW is a baby dress, tiara, beauty pictures...or a love letter
a MILESTONE in the ministry and history of BBC?????????????????


MAYBE if this were a special birthday or anniversary shrine/display?......(trying to help yall out here!)

Otherwise this is a stumbling block to the lost at the VERY LEAST.

Comparing something that current leadership does to Bro R is still way off.....

lets use scripture ONLY as the litmus test

not the beloved pastor that is not here to speak to your lame comparisons and accusations.

As far as what his parents MAY have said.....
PROVE it ,or it is merely "hate filled gossip and lies"

ezekiel said...

Do we fight today over doctrine, or the building and the bank account?

Isaiah 37:19 And have cast their gods into the fire: for they [were] no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone: therefore they have destroyed them.

2 Kings 19:18 And have cast their gods into the fire: for they [were] no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone: therefore they have destroyed them.


EZ 20:31 For when ye offer your gifts, when ye make your sons to pass through the fire, ye pollute yourselves with all your idols, even unto this day: and shall I be enquired of by you, O house of Israel? [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be enquired of by you.

20:32 And that which cometh into your mind shall not be at all, that ye say, We will be as the heathen, as the families of the countries, to serve wood and stone.

20:33 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:



Deuteronomy 28ff. The blessing and the curse. Do we live the curse because we commit the sin?

Worship something or someone other than God?

ezekiel said...

Thanks Nass! I appreciate the topic.

greenmachine said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
greenmachine said...

greenmachine said...
Comparing something that current leadership does to Bro R is still way off.....

lets use scripture ONLY as the litmus test
repy:

I am sorry that I made some mad but in all honesty I think the above statement contains much truth. We have all had a problem with comparing Gaines to Dr. Rogers and I for one intend to take the post to heart and stop comparing Gaines to Dr. Rogers and give him a opportunity.

Up to this point I have had some questions and doubts but after seeing the current threads and the hypocrisy behind the topics, I am convinced that I have been wrong

12:55 PM, June 18, 2007

Finance Guy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
johnthebaptist said...

Steve has had an opportunity...many opportunities. What has he done with them? The list is long and distinguished.......and sadly to say, sinful. He has disqualified himself.

greenmachine said...

the quotation was from gmommy's post


"Comparing something that current leadership does to Bro R is still way off.....

lets use scripture ONLY as the litmus test"

New BBC Open Forum said...

gmachine,

I can't speak for others, but you didn't make me mad. Just because we disagree doesn't mean I'm angry with you.

"the quotation was from gmommy's post

"'Comparing something that current leadership does to Bro R is still way off.....

"'lets use scripture ONLY as the litmus test'"


And "gmommy" was paraphrasing Dr. Rogers who always said not to blindly accept what he preached but to continuously test it against the Scripture. What's wrong with that?

"Up to this point I have had some questions and doubts but after seeing the current threads and the hypocrisy behind the topics, I am convinced that I have been wrong"

I'm not buyin' it, but thank you for dropping in. I've said from the beginning of all this mess that I'd rather see people fall off the fence, regardless of which side they fall on, than continue to sit on the fence, blindly content in their ignorance and apathy. And I've always said that the less one knows of what goes on behind the scenes of any church, the happier one will be in that church. The problem comes when you learn about what's happening behind the scenes and have to choose whether or not to acknowledge and deal with it. I choose not to live in a bubble.

eprov said...

Not one to share concerns about demonic influences but I think probably in our American Christian experience, we are many times unaware of the 'wiles of Satan.' I read a book years ago by Richard Wurmbrand, a Romanian native pastor, who was in Communist prisons for over 10 years. In that book he was asked after being freed and coming to America if he had any demonic oppression compared to the time he was in prison. His response - 'Oh yes. Ten times greater!' What a thot! And we are probably oppressed by many subtle things that we excuse as irritations, frustrations, stress, etc. Even symbols which may become idols! We are 'seduced' by the culture! And Satan jumps with delight!

johnthebaptist said...

greenmachine said....
I am sorry that I made some mad but...


I am not at all mad either. We don't have to agree.

Like Nass said, falling off the fence is what is needed. Fence sitting is the worst thing someone can do.

But be very careful which side of the fence you choose.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Is it true that anyone in the BBC administration has told any staff members they'll be rewarded monetarily if they fully support the pastor?

socwork said...

Is it true that anyone in the BBC administration has told any staff members they'll be rewarded monetarily if they fully support the pastor?

I, too, have heard that the amount/percentanges of some pay increases are presented as dependant upon support of the pastor.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Wonder how they have to demonstrate said "full support"?

Never mind. I really don't want to know the answer to that!

sheeplessatbbc said...

greenmachine said...

We have all had a problem with comparing Gaines to Dr. Rogers and I for one intend to take the post to heart and stop comparing Gaines to Dr. Rogers and give him a opportunity.


Greenmachine,

Where do you find from the "truth seekers" a problem with comparing Steve Gaines with Dr. Rogers?

I have not noticed the comparison being made except for Dr. Rogers, Integrity...Steve Gaines, lack of integrity. You can't teach someone integrity, you either have it or you don't, it's that simple.

As far as giving Steve an opportunity, as JTB said he has been given many. He is destroying himself and is taking Bellevue Baptist Church with him.

Now he is beating the sheep he has left and wanting more money to spend where? Where have the millions of dollars BBC had in reserve gone? Why would they not allow the books to be open, are Steve and the millionaires's club hiding something??

Karen said...

Prayer request:

My parents went on a Romanian mission trip years back and met a Romanian family there. They have a daughter who then had cancer and was treated at St. Jude. Every couple of years or so they come here to get a liver biopsy. Well, this week is the week so y'all pray for Alina - my parents met her when she was a teeny little thing and now she's beautiful 18 year old (time flies!) Pray that the cancer is still in remission then pray for traveling mercies as they go back to Romania later this or next week.

Thanks!

Karen

sheeplessatbbc said...

socwork said...
Is it true that anyone in the BBC administration has told any staff members they'll be rewarded monetarily if they fully support the pastor?

I, too, have heard that the amount/percentanges of some pay increases are presented as dependant upon support of the pastor.


Well, maybe this explains why the library staff collected all the special memorabilia for Steve's and Donna's shrines.

Showing full support over here BOSS!

Karen said...

What I find funny is that though we've talked about the "shadow boxes" with the tiara and the cheerleading pictures, but it took another blog to print the pictures and present the issue as idolotry. Hopefully those who find nothing wrong with such a thing will not blame the "truthseekers" for the publishing of the pictures.

I went to dinner with a friend last week and we were discussing the blog and the truthseekers. We agreed that getting Steve out of the pulpit would totally have to be God's doing - nothing we do here on the blog will have any effect. We had to laugh though when I suggested a bolt of lightning would do the trick, but some would blame the truthseekers anyway. Sad, but true, huh?

karen

why said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
sheeplessatbbc said...

Has anyone heard anything about Steve wanting to combine his & Donna's ministry with Love Worth Finding?

I heard this 3 or 4 weeks ago. That would be a real travesty if Steve had gotten his claws in LWF.

Is it possible that is why Harry Smith & the other board member resigned from LWF?

Anyone know anything about this??

sheeplessatbbc said...

Why,

NOT WORTH IT!!

Karen said...

Sheepless,

Go to Bill Skelton at LWF to get your answer. In my opinion, it ain't gonna happen!

karen

Karen said...

Looks like WHY messed up a perfectly good conversation again!

fogmachine said...

I respected Dr. Rogers for going against the establishment of the SBC many years ago. He was one man who had the courage and integrity to call the leadership at the time wrong.

Dr. Rogers drew a line in the sand and called what was going on exactly what it was. For that, I am grateful.

If Dr. Rogers were here today and do the same, the current leaders of Bellevue and Steve Gaines would have thrown him out and called him a backslider or lost person.

My how things have changed at our beloved Bellevue.

$Money$ sure does odd things to some people.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Remember, Karen, choice "d". Or else this. Either way, just ignore it and continue.

johnthebaptist said...

Ya'll hear more stuff than I ever did!

I didn't know about LWF but if Steve gets his hads on it... they will need to change it to LWB. Love worth buying. Just like they did with the staff @BBC for loyality/support.

Is Steve so determined to tear everything that God built down to the ground?

Why can't Steve build his own ministry? Why must he take over everyone elses that took years to build?

Does this seem like a red flag to anyone else???

sheeplessatbbc said...

New BBC Open Forum said...


I haven't handed out one of these lately, but those comments are painfully right on. Thank you.


Have you guys noticed how polite the "good ole days" were..they gave sitting O's, sooooo reserved.
Check out that one guy in the back, he's really excited. lol

Been Redeemed said...

I had heard from someone at LWF a long time ago that SG was under the impression that LWF was part of the booty that he would inherit along with BBC's millions upon his takeover.
I also heard that he was angry when he found out that it was it's own entity and he held no claim over it.
That must be why Dave Perdue is pushing (and paying??) for the Stevie and Donna (and Jamie) show. They have branched out to the Jackson area with the Channel 50 broadcasts on a local channel. I wonder what their viewing audience count is there?
I haven't heard why Harry Smith, Mark D. and Charlie Brand resigned from LWF. Does anyone know? Too bad they still have Perdue on the board, especially after what he did at MABTS!

all2jesus said...

Here we go again, Gaines supporters defending current practice by pointing to something similar done under (or by) Dr. Rogers, as if that were the standard we should be using. "You didn't complain then, so why now?"

I will say that the adoration heaped on Dr. Rogers often made me uncomfortable. The displays in his honor did too, to a degree, but at least they were retrospective of his long service at Bellevue and he had earned that respect. The items displayed came from the Bellevue archives for the most part. It is good to remember God's blessings; God Himself gave Israel tokens of memorial in the celebration of Passover and the stones of remembrance.

Instead of vanity displays, they could have filled the case with some actual memorabilia:

* Steve's Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat

* A picture of a an itty-bitty fence out near Arlington, captioned with John 10:1.

* Mark Sharpe's Hezbollah turban

* Cute pictures of Donna with her sleeves rolled up, hard at work taking out the trash

* Steve's church credit cards (all of them)

* Brochures for cheerleading camp

* A polygraph chart with dates where the graph went off the top of the paper

* A golden ticket good for one admission to the Millionaire's Club

* A copy of the Communication Committee report

* A copy of the Paul Williams report

* A copy of The Purpose-Driven Church

* A group photo of the elders we don't have

* A looping video montage: Steve trashing Bellevue at Gardendale and Union City; Steve accepting Jim Whitmire's "resignation" and announcing Jamie Parker's installation in the same breath; Steve comparing himself to Nehemiah and Moses; Steve explaining why he doesn't preach on Wednesday nights.

* Promotional literature from Steve's Wednesday night speaking engaements

* Resignation letters from upwards of twenty ministers

* David Coombs' letter to the entire church refusing to abide by the law in denying a request from members for a membership list

* A graph of the precipitous decline in attendance and contributions

* A canceled check to FUMC for $25,000

That should do it for the first display case, but I'm sure I haven't exhausted Steve's accomplishments. Taking suggestions for display case 2...

fogmachine said...

I believe in giving honor where honor is due. After folks serve faithfully for decades and prove themselves to be faithful servants, I can understand acknowledging their service.

The difference I see with Steve and Donna Gaine's shrine at BBC is that it's putting the cart before the horse. Don't tell us how good you are, just do it, live it, and we'll see for ourselves one day.

It also reminds me of the search committee and how they all patted themselves on the backs for all the great work and sacrifices they made. The church had to endure accolade after accolade from this group as they gave themselves plaques while Mark Dougharty prompted standing ovations for them.

You would have thought they were the best search committee the world has ever seen when in fact, they will go down as one of the worst the "Church" has ever seen

Things sure have gotten twisted these days!

aslansown said...

Concerning Dr. Gaines and LWF:

Dr. Gaines told a deacon in a deacon's meeting when asked what the relationship between Bellevue and LWF would be that, "I don't know or care what they are doing over there."

This would imply, IMO, that he had no designs on LWF other than to ignore them. Given the fact that two of Dr. Gaines most vocal supporters resigned from the board of directors of LWF and left no friendships intact upon leaving, I would say that there was no intention of combining ministries.

socwork said...

I didn't know about LWF but if Steve gets his hads on it... they will need to change it to LWB. Love worth buying.

Or "Love Worth Funding."

concernedSBCer said...

Hi all! I'm just now catching up for the day and would like to note the following:

Greenmanchine said he needs to give SG a chance. I'm trying hard to understand the logic of this statement. I am not mad, nor do I want to make you mad, greenmachine, but what have the last 18+ months been? You sound like he just came to BBC instead of witnessing the poor decisions, one after anoter, that he has made since he came.

I agree 100% SG should not be compared with AR. He doesn't have to be because we have Timothy to start with that tells us immediately what a shepherd should be. After Timothy, scripture is full of guidance on leadership issues. It seems to me SG has failed on these qualifications over and over again. That being said, I'm confused as to the idea of "giving him an opportunity."

New BBC Open Forum said...

socwork,

LOL!

fedup said...

Hello to all, I left BBC 2 months after Gaines came. I just could not stand him or his attitude, yes, even then. I have been following these blogs off and on now for some time just to try to keep up and see if anything is being accomplished. I am very straight forward when it comes to people and things that I care about. Here goes my opinion, Steve and Donna Gaines have demonstrated time after time that they are in it for the money. She tripled the price for the womens ministry and no telling what else. They are going to stay at Bellevue as long as those rattleing skeletons stay in the closet. Many have ask why they have gotten away with it, simple, lots of money being given to them for payoffs from the ignorant people still worshipping the ground they walk on. The news media knows many things,but they don't pay as well as Gaines does for them to keep their mouths shut. He is filtering money to organizations that Bellevue would never support to simply "shut them up" Make no mistake, the tithes that are being taken up are doing Steves and Donnas bidding. I will tell you all, even the bloggers Gaines has defending him, to hang in there. Those skeletons are getting ready to come out and the Gaines are stuffing their bank accounts as fast as they can until something, yes something so obvious is revealed that even King and Queen Gaines will have to leave.

concernedSBCer said...

All2Jesus: I have to tell you.....your display case sounds like more info than members have received in years! I say Go for it!!!

johnthebaptist said...

All2Jesus....


LOL----- that was hilarious!

Thanks, I needed that.


P.S. My word verification is:
USRTUTS....as in Steve & Donna (us) are like King (queen) Tut...lots of gold and idols. wierd.

New BBC Open Forum said...

fedup,

Well, don't beat around the bush. Could you share the evidence of some of those things you mentioned -- like the names of some of those "questionable" organizations?

I have an e-mail address in my profile if you want to run it past me first.

SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS_lynn said...

Greenmachine wants to give Gaines a chance. Gaines has had 2 years worth of chances. And blew them miserably.


I am not sure who's more corrupt. Steve and Donna Gaines or Mike Nifong. Both of them are disgraces to their professions.

Been Redeemed said...

aslansown said...
"Concerning Dr. Gaines and LWF:

Dr. Gaines told a deacon in a deacon's meeting when asked what the relationship between Bellevue and LWF would be that, "I don't know or care what they are doing over there."

I guess that would account for the fact that he was angry when he found out that LWF was not his for the taking,eh?

gmommy said...

Concerning the "full support salaries"
I am wondering now if that doesn't fit in with a statement made by a minister (now gone who DID NOT sign the silence agreement)

his statement was close to
(can't quote it exactly)
Let's say whatever amount they offered was not worth the price I had to pay.

alltojesus.....
you out did yourself with the display case!!!

I do know the story about why one of the board members left LWF and it was very sad to know who he intentionally hurt in the process.

oc said...

all2jesus said:

That should do it for the first display case, but I'm sure I haven't exhausted Steve's accomplishments. Taking suggestions for display case 2...

OC says:
To start display case 2, What about the handcuffs that shackled a 15 yr. old girl? Surely that would be a great artifact, since the apprehension of the little terrorist surely saved the life of one of the most beloved, honest, righteous, and holy men. Ahem...

And maybe the mugshots of the goons that apprehended the treacherous and crafty little girl should be blown up and framed as a reminder to anyone who would dare to intimidate a full grown ex football playin', lunch box totin' 'man' that paranoia reigns, not Jesus.
A good beginning for display case 2, a display of courage and compassion at it's best.

SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS_lynn said...

The whole Prosperity preaching bit is more serious than I thought!

Here is what someone told me in my religion class when I brought up Joel Osteen....

"I understand what you are saying. I, however have great respect for Joes
Osteen and believe he preaches true Christianity. "


This is NOT a good thing. In fact, its rather disturbing.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Lynn,

Ironically, someone said virtually the same thing to me just yesterday. Scary!

He's a great motivational speaker, he seems personable, and he's got a great smile. But in my opinion he's not a preacher.

sheeplessatbbc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS_lynn said...

Someone at work was listening to an audio book of Osteens today. I told her about the issues involving Osteen and she actually agreed. And she should know something. Her dad is a minister himself.

gmommy said...

Sheepless.....what happened????

sheeplessatbbc said...

gmommy,

Rethinking it.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Another addition for Shrine # 2

Truth or Lie? said...
Just My Opinion,
Just in case you forgot about this one, here it is again. Enjoy.

Journey of Paul and John May 21- June 3, 2007

http://www.dehoneytravel.com

tours/biblical Greece and Turkey

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear XXXX, 10/16/2006

The price listed on our website for this trip is based on 1 free for 5 host benefits: for every 5 paying passengers, the 6th trip is free. This is our standard host benefit ratio on this particular tour package and will apply to all hosts recruiting travelers for this tour. As an alternate to earning free trips, you may choose to take the cash value of a trip for every 5 paying passengers. For instance, if you needed to cover two tour leader trips, and then took the remaining host benefits in cash, it would take 10 paying passengers to earn your two free trips. Thereafter, you would receive the cash amount of $4899 per every 5 additional paying passengers. Thus, your host benefits could look like this:

After 5 paying passengers, 1st free trip

After 10 paying passengers, 2nd free trip

After 15 paying passengers, 2 free trips + cash cost of 1 trip $4899

After 20 paying passengers, 2 free trips + cash cost of 2 trips $9798

After 30 paying passengers, 2 free trips + cash cost of 4 trips $19,596

After 40 paying passengers, 2 free trips + cash cost of 6 trips $29,394

After 50 paying passengers, 2 free trips + cash cost of 8 trips $39,192

After 60 paying passengers, 2 free trips + cash cost of 10 trips $48,990

After 70 paying passengers, 2 free trips + cash cost of 12 trips $58,788



I hope this information is clear and helpful. Please let me know if you have any questions.



Sincerely,

Melissa

To earn only 2 free trips for 80 travelers with no additional host benefits, the cost would drop to $4199 per person.



Melissa Williamson

Dehoney Travel, Inc.

3008 Charlestown Crossing

New Albany, IN 47150

valleyoftheshadowofdeath said...

The end is near.

Steve Gaines is looking for work elsewhere while David Coombs is starting to realize Gaines is a mistake.

Steve will not go quietly however. When he stands at the pulpit and has more empty seats looking back at him than people, it enrages him to a point he cannot contain himself. His sermons continue to grow more defiant while he spews legalism to anyone who will listen.

The only problem with this is that most of the ones left who actually attend the service are the ones who love Steve Gaines. He is preaching to his own with such a lack of love for his sheep, even they are starting to question why!

I predict he will not go quietly but he will eventually be thrown under the bus.

The current leaders may not know much but they do know $money$ and what's happening now concerns them greatly. For this reason alone, Steve Gaines won't last much longer.

After he goes, the current leadership must go along with 3/4 of the current staff. Hold on to your seats for this ride the rest of the summer.

sickofthelies said...

Valley,

And just how do you know this?

valleyoftheshadowofdeath said...

Another suggestion for the showcase:

We could display the highlights from savingbellevue.com

and the New BBC Open Forum blog.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Check out the 19th photo from the top here. It's the one of the back of the T-shirt. See anything interesting?

New BBC Open Forum said...

sheepless,

You've got mail.

sickofthelies said...

Personally, I think SG belongs at Bolivar, with a room right next to his biggest cheerleader, Billy
" PW is not a pedaphile" Tapp.

concernedSBCer said...

You know, the thing is that I don't think anyone wants to see SG "get thrown under the bus." I believe truthseekers want God to be honored, scripture to be studied and followed, and sheep to be loved and fed.

HisUnseenHand said...

How many of you would enjoy having your name, pictures and awards in the case instead of the Gaines?

I believe you would be so proud of your achievement IF YOU COULD BE THE ONE WHO WAS RESONSIBLE FOR KICKING OUR PASTOR OUT.

I can see you now with your chest poked out saying "I accomplished this for BBC" and then all your friends could bow down and worship you.
or you all can
Keep on working maybe one of you will win the spotlight and finally get what you desire.

Maybe the case will be filled with clippings of the "NEW BBC OPEN FORUM" and all of the self serving news can be highlighted as adornment.



Talking about false idols; BBC Open Forum stands tall and has about 25 people bowing down and worshiping it's philosophy and the bloggers feed their idol and supplies their idol with ammunition built upon half truthes (which are lies)

AND YOU SAY, "BT IS CRAZY?"

valleyoftheshadowofdeath said...

sick,

I wish I could tell you details but Steve Gaines was really busy at the SBC shopping for churches.

The SBC is attended by too many people to keep it quiet.

Have a good night.

sickofthelies said...

Ah,

Billy " i will not post on here again" Tapp is back.

Tell us, Billy, is PW a pedaphile?

concernedSBCer said...

Nass: Would you be meaning the quote from Rick Warren????

sheeplessatbbc said...

Shadow,

I like your name, very apropos.

Do you think we need to buckle up for safety??

With 'them' rattleing skeletons about to come out who knows what kind of shake up there will be.

Maybe it won't take BBC as long as it did West Jackson Baptist to say...bye.....bye

sickofthelies said...

Billy Tapp said:

AND YOU SAY, "BT IS CRAZY?"


my reply:

umm, i'm gonna have to go with an AFFIRMATIVE to her question

New BBC Open Forum said...

hisunseenhand wrote:

"AND YOU SAY, "BT IS CRAZY?"

Now that you mention it... yeah.

sickofthelies said...

If BT's last post isn't the rantings and ravings of a crazy, possessed woman, I don't know what is.

sickofthelies said...

Billy,

Have you been hitting the Mad Dog 20/20 again?

concernedSBCer said...

BT: I am a little confused. How is it that PW was NOT a pedophile if he admitted to abusing his 12 year old son for 12-18 months?

sheeplessatbbc said...

NASS,

Thanks, I'm with you

sheeplessatbbc said...

More material for Shrine # 2

Photo of Steve & company, "WHACKING THE MIC" as "the victim" approaches a mic at the Monkey Business meeting

SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPIALIDOCIOUS_lynn said...

Hey BT,

Are you PUIing?

For those who don't know....PUI = Posting Under the Influence

HisUnseenHand said...

PW has never been officially charged to my knowledge but I assume that he is a pedaphile. I never said that he was not. I did say that you nor anyone else on this blog site was in the room when PW talked to Pastor Gaines and you do not know what was said or how it was said. I stated and firmly believe that Pastor Gaines was not properly informed of the situation. If Pastor Steve is the, "big bully" that you say that he is then why would he not have bullied PW after all PW was Dr. Roger's man, not one of his. The accusations made against Pastor Steve does not add up; the case that BBC Open Forum presents does not fly and it doesn't require too much to see through the rederic.

Every single accusation/point that you all make have a logical explanation. Even people who had some disagreements with Pastor Steve at his former churches said that Steve Gaines would never permit PW to remain on staff if he had known the complete truth. These facts are never permitted on the forum and when they occassionally slip through. The person who tells it is made out to be a crazy person.

This is the only way you can rationalize your personal problems of hatred toward a man who had the nerve to stand up against the "Its" of Bellevue and say, "I will not follow your lead, God is directing me to do things a different way"

PS. I made the statement "Farewell" to the blogger whom I was replying to because he was, according to his words, leaving the blog site.

I said from time to time I come here just to see if the same people are still blogging the same old junk. I hope I have made this clear to you so that you will not misquote me again.

sickofthelies said...

IF SG is willing to pay people a higher salary to support him, I wonder what he would be willing to pay BT to NOT support him?

Surely she has a price to cease and desist her late night MD 20/20 rantings.

sheeplessatbbc said...

His,

What do you call the rape of a child? What do you call a man (animal) that rapes his own 12 yr old son, repeatedly over a 12-18 month period.

Steve Gaines should have walked PW to his office, had him clean it out and walked him out of the church, no questions asked.

This is not rocket science, brain surgery and certainly not uncharted waters!!!!!

valleyoftheshadowofdeath said...

hisunseenhand,

People used to think the world was flat.

Unfortunately, Paul Williams and Steve Gaines are not available for questioning at this time.

sickofthelies said...

So if PW IS a pedaphile, why do you not hold SG responsible for allowing him to roam the halls freely at BBC?

You are soft on pedaphiles, Billy..you don't seem to understand that pedaphiles should not be around children.

The only people I have ever met in my life that were not concerned about a pedaphile being around children was ANOTHER pedaphile.

valleyoftheshadowofdeath said...

Suggestion for the Gaines shrine.

A copy of the manual titled "What to do with a pedophile minister"

sickofthelies said...

valley,

Unfortunately, that manual is blank.

concernedSBCer said...

With regard to Case 2 of the shrine, Nass' trolling motor is a thought as well......

sheeplessatbbc said...

Shadow,

Steve could be holding it standing beside his itty-bitty capsized boat on a lonely island

He just didn't know; he was in uncharted waters

sickofthelies said...

Here's an idea for the shrine:

A copy of BT's rantings and ravings and an empty "flavored fruity drink" container next to it.

sheeplessatbbc said...

And a big block of that Minnesota Ice and a picture of that dark basement where the parents keep NASS

concernedSBCer said...

BT: That's true; I was not in the room during SG and PW's conversation. But, if someone says they abused their son, and you are in authority over them, it's up to you to get to the bottom of it. I can't buy the old "he just didn't know the whole story" thing. That seems to me to be just another "uncharted waters" cop-out.

SilentNight said...

Someone suggested the other day that we need to see the check register and bank statements for all of BBC bank accounts.

Is any progress being made is this area and if not why?

New BBC Open Forum said...

SOTL wrote:

"Unfortunately, that manual is blank."

No, it's not. It just wasn't ever opened.

sheeplessatbbc said...

That Trolling motor needs a little smoke coming from it. Maybe we need to take up a collection in case that one burns up.

Maybe, just maybe, Steve would make a donation to our trolling fund.

valleyoftheshadowofdeath said...

I beleive Steve is in a dinghy trying to get away right now. The only problem is he has nowhere to go and his good friends on the cruise ship don't want to lend a helping hand anymore.

sickofthelies said...

Valley,

Well, he did it to himself.

New BBC Open Forum said...

sheepless wrote:

"Maybe, just maybe, Steve would make a donation to our trolling fund."

Only if I deleted "hisunseenhand's" posts.

sickofthelies said...

Concernedbscr,

Ole Billy doesn't want to see her poor widdle Stevie Boy saddled with ANY responsibility for PW whatsoever.

I think she must have a school girl crush on him.

concernedSBCer said...

A good trolling motor costs a lot less than $25,000. Surely that wouldn't be a problem.

sheeplessatbbc said...

On the cruise ship, Lolly Pop

sickofthelies said...

NASS,

LOLOLOL!!!!

SilentNight said...

I have said all along that I dont want to leave BBC because my children are so involved.

I realize now that that type of thinking is very wrong. What brought my husband and myself to Bellevue was the holy spirit and he is now leding us away.

Shame on me for staying and allowing my children to decide where we should go. I have stayed for all the wrong reasons.

HisUnseenHand said...

IF SG is willing to pay people a higher salary to support him, I wonder what he would be willing to pay BT to NOT support him?

Surely she has a price to cease and desist her late night MD 20/20 rantings.

11:04 PM, June 18, 2007

Reply:
I was ask more than once by some of your most famous founders, "What would it take for you to not support Gaines and join in with us?"

I find it very funny that I, according to your words am worth so little to Pastor Steve but I was worth a lot according to the words of th Savingbellevue founders.

In my personal opinion I am worth very little but when it comes to standing for justice I give it all I have to give. Many people throughout my life have come and ask for my prayers and help when they are being treated unfairly because they know me and they know when I see a great injustice being done I will scream as loud as I possibly can! Pastor Steve has not inlisted me in this issue; God has and I am here, listening to every word. I print much of what is blogged and I carry the junk around with me. I point out to anyone who says anything negavtive about our Pastor, what you all are saying and what is wrong with it.

I guess you can say that I am an activist for justice and the I AM is my Counselor. Call me crazy and you are calling Him crazy and He will deal with you about that, I don't have to.

sickofthelies said...

sheepless,

I doubt that SG is gonna be sipping on a red ( non alcoholic) drink with a little umbrella in it on that dinghy.

concernedSBCer said...

Valley: I find it interesting that SG might be "looking." Hasn't he got a good record shooting the wolves? I'm curious....is he looking because the money is down, or is he losing power from within? Any ideas?

oc said...

justplainunderhanded said,

I stated and firmly believe that Pastor Gaines was not properly informed of the situation.

oc says:
The dude is getting big bucks. He shouldn't have to be informed, he knew something had happened. Why didn't he inform himself further? Because he didn't care. You really need to get a grip on trying to give your buddy a pass for being ignorant. He is probably paid way too much to feign ignorance. Is that what you people paid for? If so, you got ripped off. Now you are embarrassed, and can't admit you made a bad investment. But maybe you should cut your losses....

sickofthelies said...

And yet, she has no problem with SG allowing a pedaphile to run freely around the halls AND men's bathrooms at BBC.

Wonder if she had a grandson or son that was molested by PW in the bathroom during that 6 month period if she would feel differently.

And she is an activist for JUSTICE?

I think her crushin on SG is getting in the way of her common sense.

concernedSBCer said...

Silent Night: That is a hard place to be. However, what would you ultimately be teaching your children if you stay? That activities are more important than truth? You are making a difficult decision that they might not understand right now, but if you are honest with them, show them scripture, guide them through the incidents, they will understand. They will probably surprise you how logical and loyal to God's Word they can be when presented with the facts. Best Wishes. :)

sickofthelies said...

I can see BT now in a tight fitting " super woman" outfit with a cape on the back and the initials BT on the front of it.

Her mantra will be:

" Fighting for the rights of pedaphiles to roam freely in churches"

valleyoftheshadowofdeath said...

concerned,
He's looking because he actually has more wisdom to see the handwriting on the wall more than the current leadership does.
There's talk among the current leadership of "can we weather the storm" long enough until the bleeding stops. This prideful selfish thinking is what is destroying Bellevue. All the leaders are thinking about is themsleves instead of protecting the sheep.
I've never heard of leaders throwing all the innocents overboard while they cruise on.
Does anyone recognize Bellevue anymore? I don't.

gmommy said...

I don't know who hisunseen is...maybe BT???
But what you are saying is just weird.
If you REALLY felt confident in SG,
you would never feel the need to say such things on this blog.

It wouldn't bother you so much if there wasn't fear of having to deal with the reality that SG is not being obedient to God's word.

He talks about forgiveness but he has no remorse
or repentance....
you can't just demand that people forgive....
and what about the VICTIM of the staff sexual predator????
Did you know he CONFESSED to molesting his on flesh and blood child.....entrusted to him by God to protect.

PW also preyed on the women that he interviewed before teaching SS.
He asked about their sex lives.......
PW ASKED if I had ever had sex with a woman.....
and I was discussing how the scripture was being taught in my SS class!

No sexually deviant things brought up in the scripture discussing abundant life....is there?????

This is all in the report...documented.
The HR guy interviewed me. We talked approx. 10 times.
The BOGUS investigation board was made up of men with NO experience in this field. The HR guy...the best of the bunch...said he knew NOTHING about sexual abuse.

Do you think that atmosphere was condusive for women and children to come forward.....ESPECIALLY SINCE % YEARS EARLIER I told everyone I could find what PW did under the umbrello of being a minister at BBC.
ONE family had the heart to come to my house after the truth about this pervert came out.

This is a no brainer.

NO thinking, scripturally obedient, Sr pastor, would,could ,or should
cover for a sexual predator at the expense of the flock....
it wasn't his decision to make for everyone else........

Is it hard to believe that SG refused to meet with the victim and the predator together??????
He wouldn't give the victim a chance to point out to him the damage he had done.

WHY do you think the victim WALKED TO THE MIC TO SPEAK???

To cause a riot.?????
NO
To shed light on the lack of integrity of the leadership in this matter!

What has Steve or the leadership done to help the victim???

BBC dollars can go to attorneys to protect Gaines and PW but did any of that go to help the victim?????

SG cared about himself only.....
what else have we seen from this man in the past 2 years??????

concernedSBCer said...

Valley: You know, my next question would have to be, "Is SG the sole problem?" Just say for the sake of debate SG leaves.......frankly, many of those still on staff aren't trustworthy anymore either. Like you said, they are prideful and selfish and have done nothing to maintain God's Truth at BBC. So, what then???

sheeplessatbbc said...

SilentNight said...
Someone suggested the other day that we need to see the check register and bank statements for all of BBC bank accounts.

Is any progress being made is this area and if not why?


Cuz, it aint't none of our bidness, just shut up and pay up and we'll spend God's money wherever and however we want to. We don't even care about co-mingling of money or none of that other stuff.

We'll give $25,000 to an apostate church that approves abortions and approves of homosexual lifestyles, we'll even build a labyrinth if you don't catch us first, we'll even give a pedophile minister that we've allowed to roam the halls of BBC with free range to our children a raise during the 6 months we have continued to protect him, instead of protecting our children.

So you folks just keep that money rolling on in and don't ask NO QUESTIONS, CAUSE IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

sickofthelies said...

gmommy,

good post!!!

And here comes BT, flying in, hands on hips,empty mad dog 20/20 bottle in her hands with her usual mantra about how wonderful SG is and how he was totally innocent and did not understand that PW was telling him that he had sexually abused his son.

He just didnt' understand ya'll...he ONLY has a PHD, and he's ONLY been a pastor for 20 years and he just didnt' understand .

And besides, he's cute.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Silentnight,

Seriously, several upstanding Christian men have worked diligently for many months now to get the books opened and have full disclosure.

That has been one of the many truth issues that the truthseekers have been requesting. The so called leaders obviously have much to hide or they would not fear disclosure, honesty and transparency.

valleyoftheshadowofdeath said...

conserned,
SG is not the sole problem. I think you have to look at the committee that called him to start with. Each one of these men and women knew exactly who they were calling. The Caldwells were as familiar with SG like he was their son. So many staff members have documented themselves as selling out their principles for a job. This is not acceptable to trade integrity for money and I don't appologize for saying that. Many people have suffered more than loosing a job for doing the right thing over the centuries.
I would hope that when SG leaves, the leadership will collectivly step down/leave and a lot of staff will leave as well (some forced out if necessary). Hopefully we will get a God fearing humble servant who loves the Lord, loves the Word and loves to preach, loves his sheep, and is not interested in being driven by money and power.

New BBC Open Forum said...

hisunseenhand wrote:

"I did say that you nor anyone else on this blog site was in the room when PW talked to Pastor Gaines and you do not know what was said or how it was said."

Of course not.

"Pastor Steve has not inlisted me in this issue... "

Oh, I've no doubt about that whatsoever!

"I print much of what is blogged and I carry the junk around with me. I point out to anyone who says anything negavtive about our Pastor, what you all are saying and what is wrong with it."

I bet you're a lot of fun at parties!

valleyoftheshadowofdeath said...

sheepless,
Don't forget SG's package is now at 1/2 million $$$$$'s per year. Figuring the cost of living in Memphis, he's got the best job in town with unlimited vacation and more perks.

sheeplessatbbc said...

SilentNight said...
I have said all along that I dont want to leave BBC because my children are so involved.

Shame on me for staying and allowing my children to decide where we should go. I have stayed for all the wrong reasons.


Many of us are still praying and waiting to see if BBC can be turned back around before making a final decision to move on. It's a very difficult decision and much more so with those of you who have children involved. There are many factors and lives to consider.

When and if God gives you the clear answer to move-on, you will know it. Wait upon the Lord.

sickofthelies said...

NASS!!!

You owe me a new keyboard..I just spit my tea out at your last response:

" i bet you are a lot of fun at parties"

LOLOLOL!!!

STILL HOWLING OUT LOUD!!!

sickofthelies said...

well, bloggers, I guess it is time for me to go to bed.

But I shall feel safe, knowing that BT is flying around out there, searching for truth, justice and saving SG's hide.

No doubt he sleeps better, too, just knowing that BT has his back.

concernedSBCer said...

GMommy: You've got mail. :)

sheeplessatbbc said...

Valley,

Isn't that more than the President of the United States makes per year?

Wonder if Joel could take him on staff and pay him those big bucks, but he'd have to take Jamie too.
Package deal, you know.

charis said...

Karen, Oops! Sorry it took so long, but you've got mail :)

Cakes- you make me laugh. Thank you :)

concernedSBCer said...

Sheepless: Yeah, they have a Covenant relationship.

oc said...

Concernedsbcer said,

Valley: You know, my next question would have to be, "Is SG the sole problem?" Just say for the sake of debate SG leaves.......frankly, many of those still on staff aren't trustworthy anymore either. Like you said, they are prideful and selfish and have done nothing to maintain God's Truth at BBC. So, what then???


OC says: I don't really know the answer to concernedsbcers question except to say this. If you cut the head off the snake, the snake dies.
(Now don't get wild and accuse me of a death wish for anybody.)
Just sayin.

sheeplessatbbc said...

SOTL,

How many of those little red umbrellas did you bring home with you? Glad to hear you had fun and a good trip and want to go back again.

New BBC Open Forum said...

sheepless wrote:

"Wonder if Joel could take him on staff and pay him those big bucks, but he'd have to take Jamie too."

Joel and Jamie on the same stage? They'd have to issue sunglasses to everyone in the place!

sheeplessatbbc said...

Oc,

Yeah, but the headless snake still wiggles for awhile..just sayin

concernedSBCer said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sheeplessatbbc said...

Concernedsbcer,

I've heard about that covenant relationship too, wonder what that means?

concernedSBCer said...

OC: Yes, but if the rest of the snake stinks, you don't want that around at all either. Are you saying the rest will leave regardless? I think they will have to because they are brainwashed too.

concernedSBCer said...

Sheepless: I'm too creeped out to ask. :/

sheeplessatbbc said...

NASS,

You tooooooooo funny!

Dat makes me smile.

gmommy said...

TWO THINGS BLOG FRIENDS..
I am going to say this again,
I know I will be ignored again....
sorry this is important to me...

MS Tapp,
you can listen up too!

Lynn,
You're my pal but please NEVER use the word "incident" when referring to a child being molested...OK????

If PW were "merely"
(major sarcasm) a pedophile,

HOW is it that he PREYED on SO MANY vulnerable women that innocently walked into his office assuming it was a safe place?????

Asking them SICK sexual questions....
I mentioned the MILDEST one he asked me.

Do I need to explain what he did after making victims relive their past abuse...
or asked them PERSONAL questions about their sex lives with their husbands???
BT...I was there....he preyed on me.
Leadership is WELL aware of this but yet they make him out to be a victim
TO DEFLECT AWAY FROM GAIN'S INCOMPETANCE.

I actually have proof...that I would never share with someone who chooses to be blind in this area.

If you LIKE sg for whatever reason....great.
But this issue is a NO BRAINER!

There are many reasons SG let this slide ...none would be unchartered waters or that he didn't know his job....stupid!!!

Either he didn't care because he has a heart of stone

PW had a something on him and used it that day

SG related to his secret sin in a personal way

sheeplessatbbc said...

Nite all you truthseekers.

Must go count my sheep, they just keep wandering off

sheeplessatbbc said...

gmommy,

Something is rotten in Denmark, don't ya think?

New BBC Open Forum said...

gmommy,

It is obvious from yours and others' stories that PW is a sexual predator. All child molesters are sexual predators, but not all sexual predators are child molesters.

Thank you for sharing your story. Those who want to hear will listen and learn. Those who don't, won't.

gmommy said...

sheepless,
I don't know about Denmark....but BBC is rancid!

Nass,
Great mind...again!

gmommy said...

oc,
Wear your "Texas boots" when we "go bowling"....just in case...
get my drift????

gmommy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
oc said...

Sheepless said,

Oc,

Yeah, but the headless snake still wiggles for awhile..just sayin


And Concernedsbcer said,

OC: Yes, but if the rest of the snake stinks, you don't want that around at all either. Are you saying the rest will leave regardless? I think they will have to because they are brainwashed too.

oc says: it may be wiggling, it may be stinking, but it can't bite and is much easier to throw out. That's all I'm saying.

New BBC Open Forum said...

oc, sheepless, concerned,

That's gross. Couldn't y'all find a better analogy?

gmommy said...

Really going to bed now!

oc said...

gmommy said,
oc,
Wear your "Texas boots" when we "go bowling"....just in case...
get my drift????

Reply: You got it, little lady.
Yippee tye yayyyyy!!!!

gmommy said...

sheepless is counting sheep,
oc counts horsies,
I count dead moles.

oc said...

NBBCOF said,

oc, sheepless, concerned,

That's gross. Couldn't y'all find a better analogy?


Reply: Oh, would a rat be better?

gmommy said...

Or a big mole!!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

hisunseenhand wrote:

"I was ask more than once by some of your most famous founders, 'What would it take for you to not support Gaines and join in with us?'"

Talk about misquoting someone! Once and for all, madam, will you please try to grasp this simple fact that there are no "founders" of this blog beyond the one anonymous person who was the moderator for less than two weeks? It was a project I took on and continue to do by myself. The people who post here are the ones who make it what it is (for better or worse!), but again, THERE ARE NO FOUNDERS!

sheeplessatbbc said...

Thank you Lord for the rain last night

sheeplessatbbc said...

Uh, Oh, looks like His and Why were baddddddddddddddd last nite and we're on moderation again.

Ok, fess up, which one of you famous founders asked His to stop supporting Gaines and come on over??

You might as well come clean now, it's all going to come out in the wash.

New BBC Open Forum said...

sheepless,

It's pointless. Either she can't read, or she just doesn't get it. Rather than 'fessing up to inviting "huh" (appropriate abbreviation, don't you think?) to "join the cause," I'd just like to know who the "famous founders" are. I never did learn the identity of the original "BBCOF." If you're still lurking out there, sir, I'd like to hear from you!

sheeplessatbbc said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
"huh" (appropriate abbreviation, don't you think?)


That's good, "huh"

3rdside said...

Sorry for the delayed comment about tithing but I so rarely get time to scroll the blog.

Tithing is an intimate act of worship between the giver and God. God accepts our worship when it is done with a pure heart and when we worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.

For one moment, lay aside feelings and evaluate your act of worship through the eyes of scripture. SG, Dr. Rogers, or anyone else is irrelevant at this point. God does not say to withhold our worship because of the way we feel, but rather enter into a right relationship with Him BEFORE worshiping Him with a tithe or any offering.

I know this forum is about expressing feelings, but worship of the Creator God, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, should not be a pawn in this war no more than prayer should be. Would we say we are not going to pray until this or that happens? Would we say we are not going to sing praises until another thing happens?

Please do not let the battles fought in this electronic forum cause you to stumble and become merely a giver of money rather than a worshiper of God. Should one fall into this trap he becomes one who is doing his civic duty only, and that is the clear definition of legalism.

The question of where to worship God is something someone should not talk you into or out of, except that it is to be in the House of God. Temporal issues have to be viewed objectively or removed.

I cannot tell you where to tithe/give, but I do know it is an act of worship and not a show of support or a demonstration of a lack of support. Used in that way, it is merely a political contribution with tax advantages.

Rod Almondmartanti said...

greenmachine, your post has displayed what is at the root of all of this: a total disreguard for the Word of God.

How shocking that you have been in the church for years and still don't put God's Word above your worship of men.

What do you mean, "don't go there"? Don't go to the Word of God because The Word may show Truth and two pastors you know of you don't want to get exposed to preaching not being correct or preaching an OT principle to the chruch?

Paul praised the Berans because they went home and tested what was in the Word of God to see if what Paul said was true.

So, are you saying Paul is lesser that pastors you know and it is more important to silence God's Word than to state scripture and have it contradict your favorite pastor?

This is why the church is in the trouble it is in today because men prefer men to God.

Shame on you greenmachine. Give up your idolitry!

sheeplessatbbc said...

Thanks 3rd side.

Thanks Ezekiel.

watchman said...

In the name of " PURPOSE "...

One God...."many " paths ?????

New age oneness gospel of antichrist spreading worldwide.

ONE GOD,MANY PATHS???

concernedSBCer said...

Nass: You've got (lots of) mail!
:)

sickofthelies said...

Billy,

You said in an earlier post that you are not trying to hide your identity.

Could you help us to understand why it is that your profile lists you as a man?

Piglet said...

BT said

Talking about false idols; BBC Open Forum stands tall and has about 25 people bowing down and worshiping it's philosophy and the bloggers feed their idol and supplies their idol with ammunition built upon half truthes (which are lies)


Piglet says:

I have RARELY met a BBC person who does not follow the blog. There are MANY who read and do not post -I have gotten emails from several.

Posting on the blog does not mean we agree with everything said - even if we are in agreement about Steve Gaines.

I don't think anyone worships the blog. I can only speak for myself but I keep coming back because I have friends here with common concerns - and we are still mourning the death of our church family at the hands of a greedy, self centered pastor who lacks love for his flock - apparently even those who are willing to stay and listen to him.

Now that we have all scattered to different churches, this has become a place to meet and encourage one another....

Piglet said...

SilentNight said...
Someone suggested the other day that we need to see the check register and bank statements for all of BBC bank accounts.

Is any progress being made is this area and if not why?

Piglet says:

BBC isn't going to surrender anything without a court order and the legal fees are staggering. DOESN'T MEAN IT WON'T happen - that's just why it hasn't yet.

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: Well said. The mere statement that we "worship the blog" is as ridiculous as anything I've heard. I treasure the Godly discerners I have met and am thankful they have challenged me to search deeper and study more. I believe God has worked through this blog to grow us through our various trials and to introduce us to others of like minds that we might have never met otherwise.

Those on the blog have continued to challenge me to be stronger in my faith because we worship our Lord and Savior together.

Piglet said...

BT said

...they know me and they know when I see a great injustice being done I will scream as loud as I possibly can!


Piglet says:


Please tell me where you were when the meeting was shut down without finishing business.

Where were you when we were told by our OWN church that we can not see where our tithes are going?

Where were you when Larry Ray, and Phil Newberry and others were yelling at our ministers and intimidating them to lie and fall in line with the pastor regardless of their convictions???

Tell me, PLEASE!

eprov said...

I value the position in Christ each of us has. The ground at the foot of the cross is level. I refuse to allow any person to come between me and the Lordship of Christ over my life. Teachers and preachers 'earn' the respect given them as a spiritual mentor. That is a process, not a demand or a military type order, and then only as the impact of their ministry is anointed by the Holy Spirit. And from my perspective the same goes with giving. If done as a 'duty' the blessing is lost!
I have to say that I have been blessed by this blog and I don't have a clue who anyone is and don't really care.

concernedSBCer said...

Nass: You've got a quick question email.......

Piglet said...

Taking deep breath...Don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll....how am I doing NASS?

eprov said...

why.....
I have a sense that God ignores you. Otherwise he would bop you up beside the head to create some brainwave activity. You are stuck in a groove.

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: Very Good! Because we know we are listening to God and not man. :)

concernedSBCer said...

eprov: LOL....spew moment!

Piglet said...

why.....
I have a sense that God ignores you. Otherwise he would bop you up beside the head to create some brainwave activity. You are stuck in a groove.

Piglet says:

LOL! Now shame on you - feeding the troll..(snicker)

socwork said...

You're doing good piglet! You can do it!

Piglet said...

NASS

You have mail!

Karen said...

concerned,

I agree with you - I can't count on both hands the number of people I've come to cherish from this blog. We are all so different, but the blog brought us together - well, it's God's doing, but the vehicle is the blog. I don't believe in coincidence, but I do believe in Providence. I really enjoy the people I've met and I hope to continue these friendships into the future regardless of where we all wind up going to church.

karen

Piglet said...

Concernedsbcer

Hi! A lot of activity here yesterday and last night - like to never caught up!

All2Jesus

LOVED your ideas for a new display case....

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: You've got mail!

concernedSBCer said...

Karen: AMEN! :)

eprov said...

piglet....
That troll doesn't feed!
He/she is an inert object. Non-thinking, non-feeling. Just a dumb blob.

Piglet said...

Concernedsbcer - email for you

concernedSBCer said...

eprov: Mail for you too!
:)

Karen said...

I want mail tooooooo! :(

concernedSBCer said...

Karen: I sent you an email too this morning! Did you get it?

Karen said...

According to an email I received yesterday, I was wrong (Gasp! - I know, hard to believe! :D ) about where the crosses came from, so in the interest of being completely truthful, I post thusly and like so:

The 3 crosses were donated and built by Richard Headrick of Laurel, Mississippi. He ownes and operates Headrick Sign Company in Laurel. The church did use tithe money to landscrape and pay for the lighting work.

All's right in the blog world now, right?

karen

Karen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Karen said...

concerned,

Nope and I feel really unvalidated too! :(

karen

HisUnseenHand said...

to answer a couple of your questions:

sickofthelies said...
Billy,

You said in an earlier post that you are not trying to hide your identity.

Could you help us to understand why it is that your profile lists you as a man?

9:33 AM, June 19, 2007

answer: maybe you are looking at the profile crosseyed like you are looking at how the Lord tells His children to treat their brothers and sisters and church affairs.
(why is my nickname billybob?)

gmommy said...
I don't know who hisunseen is...maybe BT???
But what you are saying is just weird.
If you REALLY felt confident in SG,
you would never feel the need to say such things on this blog.

It wouldn't bother you so much if there wasn't fear of having to deal with the reality that SG is not being obedient to God's word.

answer:

I have all confidence in the Lord over Pastor Steve. Pastor Steve is a human just like you and I and therefore he makes mistakes just as you and I. I do NOT stand in his defense I stand for what the Word of God tells us to stand for. Do you know what the Lord says for us to do within the body of Christ?

To add this one to other statements regarding me seeing PW as a victim. I do see him as a victim as well as you, the pastor and everyone else; we are all victims of Satan's deception and if you think that you are not then it is you who needs to get help.We are to hate the sin and not the sinner!!!!but like I said earlier you must be looking at things crosseyed otherwise you would not be saying the things that you are saying.

concernedSBCer said...

Karen: I just resent it...please let me know!

Piglet said...

concernedsbcer

Be careful. Resentment turns to bitterness. :)

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: You are so clever! LOL
:)

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