Information about the 2007 SBC Annual Meeting, including resolutions, photos, and links to the live internet feed, can be found here.The associated blog is here.
Wade Burleson's motion regarding a study (what's there to study?) about the feasibility of the SBC maintaining a list of sexual predator ministers from within its ranks:
Preventing Child Abuse Is A Calling For Us All
At the San Antonio Convention this Tuesday morning, at 8:40 a.m., I [Wade Burleson] plan to introduce the following motion:
“I move that the Southern Baptist Convention requests the Executive Committee to conduct a feasibility study concerning the development of a database of Southern Baptist ministers who have been credibly accused of, personally confessed to, or legally been convicted of sexual harrassment or abuse, and that such a database be accessible to Southern Baptist churches in order to assist in preventing any future sexual abuse or harrassment.”
640 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 640 Newer› Newest»gmommy...you are correct and right on target.
GMommy: What a sweet spirit you have. :)
hisunseenhand yelled:
"MANY OF YOU CLAIM TO KNOW AND I CAN TELL YOU, EVEN MR. BROWN, THAT YOU ARE OFF THE MARK BUT TELLING YOU GUYS ANYTHING AT THIS TIME IS IMPOSSIBLE."
So why do you continue to come here and try to do so?
And, gmommy, I guess we saw whose "unseen hand" was working the mouth!
Seriously, I think Steve Gaines would much rather BT be on the "other" side. With friends like BT, who needs enemies? Why do you think I don't delete her posts?
why said...
Listen JERKS, why don't you cut out the name calling and the attacks. God HATES what you are doing because He hates Sin. You have spent the last little while calling names and attacking a women. WHO CARES if you disagree with her, take your own advice and STOP!! Whoever called her "sweetie" etc needs to shut their mouth!
Reply: People...this is what happens when you take drugs...please just say no.
Why asks us to stop the name calling and attacks...does he see that he is condeming himself? He is pronouncing that God hates his (why's) sin.
The woman attacks a women here and we are supposed to just let it slide because she is a woman.
Why, get a grip and some medical help. What size jacket you where? Want to order the correct size straight jacket.
why...you are a evil demon and I rebuke you in Jesus Name....Now be gone!
Why, be gone demon!!!
why...you are blaspemous in your misuse of scripture, your arrogant use of the Holy Spirit showing you and ONLY you that you are correct and everyone else is wrong.
You are misguided and have the spirit of the evil one.
BE GONE EVIL DOER!!!
hisunseenhand said,
If you can add them you can figure you have about 15 - 18 friends. I may be dumb but what are you? Your number hasn't increased so your case against the leadership has failed.
oc Replies: May? I believe there is no question. You prove it in every post you make. Think about it, Einstein.
By the way, anyone who wants my place on the 'list' can have it. Considering the source, it's not that impressive, is it?
why said,
Whoever called her "sweetie" etc needs to shut their mouth!
oc says: Watch it. You may be steppin' in something you can't easily shake off your shoe. Just sayin'.
oc.
A classic example of "WHY" following in the footsteps of the current leadership....
RULES don't apply to them.
They point at others instead of themselves
WHY knows that he/she/it
is BANNED from the blog.
BANNED by the blog admin.
But..when the person you look up to and defend
breaks rules,laws,scripture....
what's the diff?
WHY said
Listen JERKS, why don't you cut out the name calling and the attacks
Piglet says:
You didn't mean for this to be funny did you? :)
Piglet said,
WHY said
Listen JERKS, why don't you cut out the name calling and the attack
Piglet says:
You didn't mean for this to be funny did you? :)
Oc says: Piglet, get real. Do you think 'why' ever had an intentional thought?
Just wonderin'.
oc.
OC
Not really - it's just that it was so.....funny.
Kinda like, "Quit all that @!!?% cursing!!"
I'm starting to feel sorry for WHY.
Folks,
Please remember Sunday's message.
"Sins committed in MODERATION by the LEADER........EXCESS by the FOLLOWERS."
Don't you see, the followers (why, unseenhand, etc) have taken up where the leader left off. He went to Union City and Gardendale and ridiculed BBC. He mocked those who would follow the truth. NOW, those who support him blindly, are going further with the name-calling, the personal attacks, etc. We know that one has already been assaulted. The "students" have learned their lessons well. They pay no attention to what's in black and white. The committee's report PLAINLY STATES, SG ADMITTED HE KNEW WHAT PW HAD DONE. He told him it was under the blood. And until January of 2007, SG had planned to have PW come back on staff.
For all those that keep wanting to give him a pass "he didn't know what to do"-- does anyone but me remember when SG was here several years ago, I believe Dr. Rogers may have been on medical leave. SG was here for morning and evening services. He announced in the morning service that he would be preaching on the sin of homosexuality and the damage being done in our nation. He had all the scriptures, good sermon, on what the Bible says. Now, don't you think, that as PW sat in that office and confessed what he had done, that the HOLY SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD REMINDED SG OF THOSE VERSES???? Is someone really going to try to convince me or anyone else that GOD WASN'T IN THAT ROOM and he didn't remind SG what the scripture says about HOMOSEXUALITY; about being careful for children b/c their guardian angels behold the very FACE OF GOD; about the qualifications of a minister ruling his own house well and being above reproach before God and man (oops, slip, those are only "guidelines", noone actually measures up?!?! ---SORRY I have to disagree SG, my father does, my brother does, my brother-in-law does, my son does!!!!) I'm so sick of hearing "You weren't in that room, you don't know what was said." Well, I know one thing, GOD WAS and HE was NOT PLEASED!!!!!
Ms Tapp, if that's really you, you are the joke. Next time you want to talk about rape, or "emotional rape" I suggest, you read Proverbs first. I would offer that you are full of hot air when you talk about your own life. NO VICTIM OR SURVIVOR of rape would stand, sit, or support someone who didn't know what to do with a rapist. Don't even begin to speak of what you know NOTHING about. In the multitude of words, you were seen as the fool and no one else!
hisunseenhand said,
I fully agree with Why,
oc says: Well, isn't that amazing. What a surprise! And, as the church lady says, 'How convenient'. Trolls agree with each other. Who'd have thunk it?
But, Joshua 24:15.
What are you going to do with that?
Just askin'.
oc.
http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/
This is a blog of mostly ministers...I guess many attending the SBC
no wonder other ministers don't do anything to help us.
We KNOW how deceitful and cunning PW is.
He arrogantly walked the halls
KEEPING HIS SECRET.
MAYBE he also took note of others secrets.
Why else would ministers cover for him and claim ignorance.
why said...
Reply Have you lost your mind? This blog has been about personal attacks and name calling from day one. What planet are you on? Assaulted?? Who, when and where??? Facts please? Heard no more about that RUMOR!!
This is what happens when you get off your meds.
You make incoherent, twisted statements. I wish he would just go back to the dark side.
And the DARWIN award today goes to:
drum roll please
BILLY TAPP!!!( idiot)
APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE
Is Why off his/her meds??
How sad!!
I'm the guilty party!!! I called her "sweetie"!!! This is the South...people use words like sweetie, honey, darlin' etc. every day. I didn't realize that calling someone sweetie was slander? Come on, why......get real. That's really silly to get upset about.
I bet ol' Stevieboy & Donna were squirming in their chairs when they called for personal holiness for Pastors and the resolution against child abuse.
Tough day for them I am sure.
Ladies and Gents,
Some of you might want to reread and edit your posts.
Ms. Tapp,
Do they let you use the computer at Bolivar?
why
one question, did you or did you not in an earlier post call people "jerks" and did unseenhand call someone a "joke" or not?
Also, I noticed that you didn't have anything to say about GOD being in the office that day, or for that matter what the Bible says about the sins SG has dismissed. Why not? Actually this is a rhetorical question. I really don't expect to have a clear-headed, logical, Spirit-led, and Spirit-filled conversation with you. You've shown your colors.
SOTL
Just want you to know that we know each other and I think you are an awesome lady. Thank you for telling your story. B/C of what happened with the PW, I had to relieve some of my own memories. Thank the Lord, I have a mighty amazing husband, who loves me and talks me thru it, and most importantly prays courage for me. I pray courage for you and all the others. God bless!
concernedSBCer said...
I'm the guilty party!!! I called her "sweetie"!!!
Reply;
Being a Southern boy, I understand the language. You can call me sweetie any time.
I thought sweetie was a compliment. I'm with Charlie,you can call me sweetie anytime too.
Continually amazed
((((( hugs))))))
thank you :)
john posted: This is what happens when you get off your meds.
You make incoherent, twisted statements. I wish he would just go back to the dark side.
Reply: Rather than post further attacks, why not TELL ME what was twisted etc in my post.
Sometimes I call myself sweetie. I guess that means I am spewing hate filled lies at myself.
SOTL,
I guess I missed your report. How was the cruise? Did they have an adequate supply of non-alcoholic red drinks with cute little umbrellas?
why said...
I would say there is a HUGE chance Dr. Rogers was aware of the PW deal. I am very very unclear as to why Mrs Rogers thinks Dr. Rogers wouldhave told her.
Oh no you di-int!! Gyyyyyrl, you in trouble now!!
Don't you just love the sound of trolling boats on a clear lake in Minnesota?
why,
I don't normally fed TROLLS, but I gotta tell ya, "You are one messed up and mixed up person". You have the discernment of a one celled ameba.
concernedSBCer said...
Don't you just love the sound of trolling boats on a clear lake in Minnesota?
REPLY:
Yeah, it is a distinct WHYNE sound.
Charlie,
The cruise was terrific!! They had an ample supply of red non alcoholic drinks with pretty little umbrellas. My face hurt because we laughed so much.
The children in the schools that the kids played their violins for were precious. It made an impression on our kids to see the condition under which these kids are educated in their schools.
Hopefully, we can go back again in a couple of years.
sotl,
Glad all went well. Thanx.
WHAT is WRONG with WHY ( assuming he/she/it is human) that it would make such a horrible statement about Dr. R?
I think that WHY has/had issues with DR. R. and is supporting SG just as a slap in the fact of those of us who LOVED and RESPECTED our beloved Dr. R.
Why,
What is it about BANNED that you don't understand?
HisUnseenHand said...
let me tell you something, if that is possible!
If I desired to keep my identity a secret; I could.
I do come here from time to time just to see if any of you have grown up and all I find is the same old bloggers blogging about the same old lies. Do you have any idea how many of you there are? Here is the list:
gmommy
oc
concerned
karen
maybe
aslanown
ezekiel
sockwork
mary
sick of the lies (joke)
lynn the recycled
davidbrown
piglet
finance man
33 years
If you can add them you can figure you have about 15 - 18 friends. I may be dumb but what are you? Your number hasn't increased so your case against the leadership has failed.
I'll be willing to say when and if I return, several weeks or months from now, I will find the same bunch wallowing in your loss and throwing stones at Pastor Gaines for taking away your once beautiful Bellevue instead of doing the "great commission" even if you have to step over a fenCCCCe.
You Mr. BBC Open Forum: I pray that the Lord will bless you with whatever it takes to humble you.
2:13 PM, June 13, 2007
My dear sickly lady, may I petition to be added to your list. I would love to be included with the Saints you mentioned above.
By the way, when I look at the number of empty seats I see each week in the sanctuary (and I use that word carefully considering the character assinations that have taken place in that complex over the last several months), I wonder how much you and your compadres have had to increase your weekly donation in order to pay the light bill. That nice healthy reserve fund will run dry sooner or later....
Dr. R did NOT know about PW.
PW, himself, said that he did not tell Dr. R because he was afraid of losing his job.
I'm sure he DID feel that way because Dr. R took the requirements for being a pastor very SERIOUSLY and had ministers removed when they fell short.
For anyone to presume and SAY otherwise is to spread gossip and lies, WHY.
I am growing tired of your hypocrisy even if you are a poor demented individual.
NASS!!!!!!!!!
why said...
I knew Dr. Rogers personally and he is the greatest preacher I have ever heard. I loved him dearly.
While we are talking about him, he would lay into each and every one of you for what you are doing on the blog and off. I only wish he was still alive
REPLY:
I am breaking my own rule again. If Dr. Rogers were alive, then, this blog wouldn't exist.
Astounded: Add me to that list of saints too, those who have sacrificed for truth.
" Bellevue is just fine"
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
talk about DEMENTED!!!!
WHY
God is not your bellhop. He is holy and will not be mocked. What is happening at Bellevue is a travesty of the worst kind. I fear for those responsible for what has taken place. There will be nowhere to hide when God pronounces His judgement, whether in this life or the next.
why said...
You are right about that Fox and if he were alive and it did, he would read YOU the right act and send you packing if you did not like it.
REPLY:
As I have already stated, if he were, it wouldn't.
Ahhhh....I see that boat's on the lake again............
Thanks, Nass!
I can't believe that I am feeding a teenage TROLL. I must be slipping.
Why
(is a hate filled liar)
KNOWS good and well Bro R would never tolerate a staff sexual predator
What a coward to talk against a man you wouldn't dare show your true face to if he were alive.
You can only speak LIES about the dead and disrespect his widow.
COWARD and LIAR
You don't have the integrity and courage to speak against the ones living who ARE corrupt.
You have to lead their parade because you are corrupt and weak.
concernedSBCer said...
Ahhhh....I see that boat's on the lake again............
Thanks, Nass!
REPLY:
Yep, I heard the WHYNE of the TROLLING motor.
GMommy: You've got mail.
You're welcome, charlie. The old trolling motor has gotten quite a workout today!
Sure am glad gas is going down for that high-speed, efficient trolling motor you've got there!
If people like Why, Billie, David Coombs, and other current leaders can continue to trash the former leadership on this blog or in private one on one meetings, they think it makes what's happening now not look so bad.
It's a trick the Clintons continue to do to make them feel better about their fiasco in the Whitehouse.
It looks all to familiar to me. They slam pre-Gaines leadership on one hand and then turn around and use the pre-Gaines leadership to bolster their positions when it works to their advantage.
I heard the newest staff member Higgenbotham told the choir she has recently realized what it means to worship for the first time in her life.
Either I'm missing something here or they are crazy.
Can someone help me out?
gmommy,
WELL SAID!!!
why said...
I knew Dr. Rogers personally and he is the greatest preacher I have ever heard. I loved him dearly.
While we are talking about him, he would lay into each and every one of you for what you are doing on the blog and off. I only wish he was still alive
Reply: You never knewn Dr. Rogers and if he did know you, he would have rebuked you for your evil spirit, attitude and works.
You have dragged his name and reputation in the mud, questioned his integrity and told lies about him along with a bunch of nonsense junk.
One question you have never answered me on...if you are soooo holy and sensitive to the Holy Spirit as you claim, why didn't you decern the pedafile? You claimed the Holy Spirit would have told Dr. R if he was in tune with the spirit...but what about you? Why did you fail to decern??? This could be all your fault.
I know my post is late & the trolling motor has taken out the trash (Donna taught me that line), but my wife called in the middle of my post and I just couldn't let it go..sorry for feeding the lead troll.
nathanb
I agree with your post. Seems history is being rewritten at BBC. It is shameful, and grieves me to no end that such a legacy as Dr. Rogers built would be stomped underfoot by many who say they loved and respected him.
Those of us who have left the building still have the BBC we knew in our hearts and the memory of our pastor. We will not get over this injustice very easily.
If we are grieved, how must our Lord grieve over His church?
Why may not be SG but he is certainly following the SG script.
Didn't Clinton do alot of deflecting away from his sin....
(that he boldly denied and lied about)
with the young girl working for him????
Same ol song.
What SG supporter has come on this blog and actually presented an intelligent,reasonable, case FOR his character,leadership and wisdom ????
And didn't ol truth ruse say alot about the brute of integrity that would get SG's in line????
What happened with that fairy tale???
GMommy: I had forgotten about Truth Ruse......Isn't it interesting how the trolls seem to recycle, yet the core group of truthseekers has remained strong and consistent?
According to the Thesauras, here are some new words you can try just for variety: fibber, storyteller, fabricator, false witness, perjurer, spinner of yarns.....
Concernedsbcer,
We say what our issues are.....
THEY just claim lies,rumors, and "their" holiness....
and when convenient...that they knew Bro R personally and what he would do today.
They need to speak of what SG is doing today and for the last 2 years...
accountability....oops...SG told the deacons he wasn't accountable to them or anyone...
GMommy: I know...isn't it so discouraging that they just don't get it?
BTW...you've got mail x 3
concernedsbcer said
According to the Thesauras, here are some new words you can try just for variety: fibber, storyteller, fabricator, false witness, perjurer, spinner of yarns.....
Piglet says:
LOL!!
No matter what we do, the school teacher in us just can't help but pop out sometimes. :)
Piglet: You are so right! Why would fail in my class because of such a limited vocabulary...bless his heart! ;)
Nass: Awwww, now my brilliant post doesn't make sense anymore.....
Anyway, Thank you, Nass!
Goodnight to all my blog friends!
I love you guys!
(offline)
Piglet: Back at you!
My Thesaurus and I are calling it a night too. Sleep well everyone!
(offline)
Why do you guys not just ignore those posts???
memphis wrote:
"Why do you guys not just ignore those posts???"
Good point!
Memphis: Easier said than done, I guess!
From 2 different deacons on 2 separate occasions.....
say whatever you like. You are a mere weak worm that lies about the dead who can't defend themselves.
You have no courage to speak about the character of the living....with FACTS.
You bore me. why the worm
concernedsbcer said
According to the Thesauras, here are some new words you can try just for variety: fibber, storyteller, fabricator, false witness, perjurer, spinner of yarns.....
Don't forget deceiver, prevaricator, equivocator and fabulist....
After reading the posts from late last night, I was grieved in my spirit over the personal attacks - even to the point of crudeness. The Lord has much to say about the tongue and the wickedness of it in the book of James. This blog (I thought) is to be a forum for honest debate - not personal attacks. Miss Billy ie. hisunseenhand seems to have set off a firestorm and many on the blog have lowered themselves to her
standards. This must grieve the heart of God to see His children attacking one another in a way that brings dishonor to Him and His kingdom. We who love our HOLY God and respect the legacy of our former pastor need to be walking on higher ground in our responses. It is possible to speak the truth in love thru His
grace, and "Agree to disagree without being disagreeable" -
A. Rogers. JMHO
(off-topic......) I just got this week's B-mail and they are advertising for choir members in that as well.
WHY and hisunseenhand,
Please open your eyes and look around you as you enter Bellevue Baptist Church. Ask yourself: "Is this the same church it was two years ago? Is God blessing our church with the power of His presence as He has in the past - or has the Spirit of the Lord departed? Are the empty seats, semi-empty classrooms, departing teachers and choir members an indication that something is very wrong? How is this vast complex going to be maintained without the tithes and offerings of the thousands who have departed?"
Sometimes when we whole-heartedly pick up the offense of someone, we become blinded to the facts. Could it be possible that your emotions are overruling the cold hard facts?
Denial is a way of escape but at some point reality has to set in.
I pray it will be for you soon.
blog friends,
This morning, the Lord prompted me to pray for David Brown's son who is in Iraq.
Please remember him in your prayers.
Ok..
In a world of spiritual madness, there was at least one pastor who got it right at The SBC convention and blasted the seeker sensitive betrayal of The Power of The Gospel of The Lord Jesus Christ back to the stone age where it belongs. You wont want to miss this video of Pastor James Macdonalds Monday Afterrnoon address of The SBC convention.
Every once in a while, there is a breath of fresh air, and a welcome relief from the madness of "church growth" and " sinner sensitivity", that has brainwashed the pastors of this nation.
Pastor James Macdonald addresses the SBC convention and clearly denunciates the abyssmal betrayal of the Power of The Gospel that seeker sensitivity and relating to the " culture" has done to destroy the power and impact of God's Gospel and to THE Church.
CULTURE CATERING WIMPS POSING AS PASTORS BETRAY THE POWER OF THE GOSPEL
NASS,
I give up! I've looked at all the pictures from the convention and can't find any of Steve and Donna (or anybody from BBC for that matter). Does the sheep prize get rolled over to next year?
karen
Ruth Bell Graham is in a coma and not expected to live. Just thought you'd like to know.
karen
32yrs@bbc said...
After reading the posts from late last night, I was grieved in my spirit over the personal attacks - even to the point of crudeness. The Lord has much to say about the tongue and the wickedness of it in the book of James. This blog (I thought) is to be a forum for honest debate - not personal attacks. Miss Billy ie. hisunseenhand seems to have set off a firestorm and many on the blog have lowered themselves to her
standards. This must grieve the heart of God to see His children attacking one another in a way that brings dishonor to Him and His kingdom. We who love our HOLY God and respect the legacy of our former pastor need to be walking on higher ground in our responses. It is possible to speak the truth in love thru His
grace, and "Agree to disagree without being disagreeable" -
A. Rogers. JMHO
REPLY:
32yrs,
I totally agree and attempted to say the same thing with this post.
Charlie Fox said...
Ladies and Gents,
Some of you might want to reread and edit your posts.
9:42 PM, June 13, 2007
Got a little hot in here last night, huh Charlie?
After speaking to a minister at BBC this week, I truly feel a little better about the communication end of things at BBC. I know lots of messages and emails have been left for Steve Gaines that haven't been returned - mine included, but he's not the only that needs to know our needs. There are plenty of ministers on staff that I still trust and I have no problem picking up the phone and relaying my displeasure with leadership. Not all ministers will give you "love it or leave it" party line - not the one I talked to. Instead of tearing each other apart with words, why don't you pick up the phone and have a chat with a minister. Some are willing to hear you.
Just a suggestion...
karen
Karen said...
Got a little hot in here last night, huh Charlie?
REPLY:
I was not impressed with some of the things said by a couple of OUR bloggers.
Did anyone hear Dr. Rogers sermon on AM 640 this morning? It was about kindness and gentleness? It's great to hear him EVERY morning on the drive to work!
Charlie: Please email me.
Thanks!
:)
concernedSBCer said...
Charlie: Please email me.
Thanks!
:)
REPLY:
Mail OTW.
Charlie
I reread my posts and I think I behaved - I'm tired of sitting in the corner. :(
NASS
You have mail from the 100 Acre Wood - check your spam file if you don't see it.
32yrs,
I totally agree and attempted to say the same thing with this post.
Charlie Fox said...
Ladies and Gents,
Some of you might want to reread and edit your posts.
9:42 PM, June 13, 2007
------------
I need to make a correction:
SOME, not many, were lowering their standards in their responses. Glad we agree.:-)
32+, Piglet and Charlie: I know we all want to be a good and faithful witness for the truth and we know others are watching us. Memphis was right: ignoring is a great route for those who, instead of attempting to dialogue, instead seek only to inflame. JMHO
:)
Charlie, Back at ya! :)
Piglet said...
Charlie
I reread my posts and I think I behaved - I'm tired of sitting in the corner. :(
REPLY:
Piglet,
I have no problem with any of your posts.
concernedSBCer said...
Charlie, Back at ya! :)
REPLY:
ConcernedSBCer,
I have no problem with your posts either.
I checked in a little after lunch yesterday, and there were quite a few excellent posts. Some were a real blessing! I checked in again last night and quite frankly, I was very disappointed that some of our own were engaging in personal attacks, crude remarks, etc.
Let me nail this down for a couple of you folks -- personal attacks do NOTHING to the other person, but they do severe damage to YOUR credibility, your testimony and your witness as a born again Christian. Period.
If it's easy to get carnal when dealing with with an idiot antagonist, then why do it at all? Why not PASS on even reading their posts? Put them on IGNORE. I have to do that to keep myself from doing what a few of you did last night.
And for the life of me, I can't figure out how someone who is BANNED is allowed to continually post. Perhaps NASS can explain that to me because I really don't understand.
I love all of you folks and I beg you not to stoop to their level. It does nothing to serve the cause of our Lord.
You may now take up stones. I have a tough old hide. :)
Mary
Mary: No need for stones; good post. Good posts, like sermons, should always "step on a few toes" because they inspire us to be at a higher level, closer to how Jesus wants us to be. :)
Mary,
Great post! But I'll be the 1st to admit - If I were online last night, I would have been right in the fray too.
I think the only way NASS can effectively keep Why from posting is to put the moderator thingy on - you know where posts have to go to NASS before they get published - and that's just annoying and keeps NASS in the basement all the time. Unfortunately, you can change you user name everytime you come around to blog, but we've seen that writing style can follow a person and it's not very hard to figure out who people are even if they change their name alot, i.e., sendthelight, inhisname, unseenhand.
So unless NASS is tethered to the computer to continually delete posts, there's no real effective way to ban someone from posting.
karen
nathan said...
I heard the newest staff member Higgenbotham told the choir she has recently realized what it means to worship for the first time in her life.
This one hurt! I've known Ms. Higgy since I was in 4th grade and I've never known her to be anything but a Godly lady. Why would she announce that to people? If it were true that she recently learned the meaning of worship for the 1st time, what has she been doing all these years? She has no idea how deep that remark has cut - was she not worshipping while directing Children's Choir, was she not worshipping while working in the Banner Ministry. To me, that remark means "it's because of Steve Gaines that I now know true worship". Maybe I'm completely misconstruing the remark, but if that were true, why would she need to announce it to the choir? What was the motivation? To make Jamie feel good about his Worship Leader skills (remember, Jamie made the same sort of remark to the choir). To build up Steve Gaines?
Why in the world would she 1) basically admit she hasn't worshipped until recently and 2) feel the need to announce it out loud?
And if Nass is always in the basement, she can't see the beautiful Minnesota lakes....
mary wrote:
"And for the life of me, I can't figure out how someone who is BANNED is allowed to continually post. Perhaps NASS can explain that to me because I really don't understand."
As I've explained before, with Blogger you can't block anyone from posting unless you change the blog to "invitation only" status. This wouldn't be a problem except that unless you formally register you can't read either. In other words, there's no way to just block someone from posting without blocking everyone from reading. I don't want to block everyone from reading, so I've depended on the honor system whenever I've banned someone from posting. About half, such as Mike Bratton, have at least had the decency to refrain from posting again. The other half either have no decency or honor or perhaps as I concluded yesterday, they're just plain thick, and they continue to come back, often changing their screen names, and continue to spew their nonsense. "Whyne" is only the latest. All I can do is delete their comments when they post them. No one is being "allowed" to continue to post.
Now, I could leave comment moderation on all the time. This means every time someone posts a comment it comes to me for approval first. I can choose to publish or reject each comment, but this has two unwanted consequences. First, it effectively shuts down the discussion because there's not that "instant feedback" you get otherwise. Second, it ties me to the computer a lot more because I need to publish comments quickly to keep the conversation from dying completely. You know, we're all supposed to be adults here, and for the most part Christian adults. So you'd think Christian adults could be trusted to act as such and police themselves. Unfortunately, with a handful of bloggers (and you know who you are), this has proven to not be the case.
I would urge everyone to just ignore the trolls when they show up. I will take out the trash, sooner or later, but when you respond you only embolden them. Trolls, by definition, thrive on attention. So if they don't get it, they usually go away.
I have looked into switching to a message board format and may still do that if I ever get the time to set it up. That way trolls could be banned but everyone could still read.
I am certainly not without faults of my own, and please know that I am not trying to place blame, for that would not be a correct assumption on anyone's part; however, I offer the following quoted post in its entirety as a reason for my lack of understanding regarding BANNED posters:
" New BBC Open Forum said...
hisunseenhand yelled:
"MANY OF YOU CLAIM TO KNOW AND I CAN TELL YOU, EVEN MR. BROWN, THAT YOU ARE OFF THE MARK BUT TELLING YOU GUYS ANYTHING AT THIS TIME IS IMPOSSIBLE."
So why do you continue to come here and try to do so?
And, gmommy, I guess we saw whose "unseen hand" was working the mouth!
Seriously, I think Steve Gaines would much rather BT be on the "other" side. With friends like BT, who needs enemies? Why do you think I don't delete her posts?
6:54 PM, June 13, 2007 "
Sorry NASS, I missed your post while I was writing my own. Forgive my ineptness as this is my first blog and I'm technology impaired. :)
NASS, now that I have had time to read your post, I think I have some understanding of the difficulty of your situation. I know I now have a greater APPRECIATION for all of your time and efforts to make this blog work. It's a great effort on your part and I THANK YOU.
Please know I was not being critical of you -- I did not have a clue how all of this blogging stuff works -- not that I'm a genius now, but at least I see the difficulty you have. And please know further that I APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR EFFORTS!!!
Mary
Thanks, Mary. Actually, "hisunseenhand" aka "seekinghiswill" aka "sendthelight50" aka BT hasn't been banned. Her posts are so over the top that they help us more than they hurt. It's sad to say this, but they're so over the top that sometimes they border on humorous. One important difference between her and posters like "whyne" is that at least she (sometimes) actually "discusses" and doesn't just hurl insults. She does plenty of that, too, but unlike "whyne," she's not a one-trick pony.
My point in the quote you referenced was that I cannot understand why people who say they "can't tell us anything" or that this is a "hate-filled blog" and how they're spending their time "carrying out the Great Commission" keep coming here to bash the rest of us. What is their point?
I will say that one nice thing about the times that comment moderation is on, I can set up my e-mail program to direct posts from certain posters directly into a "special" folder where I don't even have to read them. Too bad Blogger hasn't implemented a similar system!
Will someone who knows David Coombs well enough or feels worthy enough to call him please ask him the latest reason being given for shutting down the March 25th "business" meeting early, and then report your findings to the rest of us?
why,
You still don't seem to understand, you have been BANNED. B-A-N-N-E-D. No questions, no matter how "nice" or "sincere," will be allowed from you now. You blew your opportunity to take part in the discussions here a long time ago. Now, good bye.
NBBCOF (aka "The Fraud" to you)
NASS,
Looks like you are getting an early start.
charlie fox wrote:
"What part of BANNED don't you understand?"
It's...
a. Lack of decency
b. Lack of honor
c. Thickness
d. All of the above
I'm leaning towards "d".
Yeah, definitely "d".
Man, I missed him again! You're too fast, NASS! And yes, I agree - "D"!!!!
Charlie
I was a little unclear when I said:
Charlie
I reread my posts and I think I behaved - I'm tired of sitting in the corner. :(
I didn't think you were scolding me.
I meant that I am tired of sitting in the corner so I DID behave myself - except that I DID feed the troll....
But thanks for the reassurance - cuz I hate to disappoint you!! :)
nbbof,
David Coombs said that he's talked with other churches who are being attacked by the work of satan who have had business meetings turn into nasty situations.
He says he felt things were going to get out of hand quickly so he shut the business meeting down to protect everyone.
Yeah, NASS. I agree with the posts above - you have a hard job and you do it well. Thanks.
Piglet,
All is well.
Okay, you're on the right track, nathanb. Did he happen to use a very specific phrase when he gave you that explanation?
It is with heart-felt appreciation that I am saying my goodbyes to you fellow bloggers . Thank you NASS for your diligence and creativeness in maintaining this site. I've gleaned much needed information that I otherwise would not have because the leadership refuses to give access to the average lay person. And Miss Billy if you are still lurking, please know that my heart & prayers are still with these who are standing for truth and light and refuse to accept anything less. So I would be proud to be on your list.:-)
Our obligations at Bellevue are now over and we are visiting other churches. I find that when I do post, I am generally repeating myself which adds nothing of value to the quandry of the demise of Bellevue Baptist Church.
Thank all of you who have stood for truth and have not yet given up the fight. Thank you especially to Piglet and Karen for comments that are always to the point, without undo harshness, and with even a little humor thrown in the mix to give us a much needed smile.
May we all keep our eyes upon JESUS, the Author and the Finisher of our faith. He is the righteous Judge and in the end He will see to it that justice prevails.
"Satan may win some battles but in the end God wins the war!" -
Ruth Graham Bell.
May we all be in prayer for the Graham family as they prepare to say their goodbyes to their dear Ruth.
32yrs
Thanks for the kind words. We'll miss you!
32yrs,
Thank you for the kind words. Your input has been appreciated, and you will be missed. Feel free to drop back in any time!
Where, if you don't mind telling us, is your family moving?
nbbof,
Here is what I know about your question you asked pertaining David Coombs' take on the business meeting that was a planned shut down.
He stated that he had checked with legal council for the Executive Committee for the Southern Baptist Convention to get an idea of what's going on.
He said there were about 1,200 churches in the SBC that's got the same things Bellevue has going on. These are larger churches with longtime pastors leaving.
In every case where a business meeting has been allowed to continue back and forth for and against things, it's deteriorated into in some cases irreparable damage.
As an example, he said at First Baptist of Daytona, they had to get Marshalls at the door to control it.
At First Baptist Dale City, OK both sides left yelling and screaming at each other.
He also said he felt it was his duty and responsibility to not let it deteriorate.
The problem I saw was the meeting didn’t seem to be getting out of control at all.
Did I remember the day after the meeting the church denied having any plan to shut the meeting down.
32! Thank you for your kindness. I know you're having a hard time in leaving BBC, but in the long run, ultimately things will work together for good. I appreciate your compliments!
We'll run into each other I'm sure!
karen
Here is my comment pertaining David Coombs' take on the business meeting that was a planned shut down.
Calling Dr. BILL LONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
David's very latest (as of yesterday afternoon) is that they were concerned that the Gaines supporters would get out of hand.
32+: I thank you for your insightful posts and also for all your years of service at BBC. I know God has great plans for this new chapter in your life. You and your family are always welcome to visit with me.
Take care. :)
aslan wrote:
"David's very latest (as of yesterday afternoon) is that they were concerned that the Gaines supporters would get out of hand."
Excuse me?
Oh yeah, like we were going to rush the pulpit or something. Please just give me a small semblance of a break!
What's the greek word for HOGWASH again??
karen
New BBC Open Forum said...
aslan wrote:
"David's very latest (as of yesterday afternoon) is that they were concerned that the Gaines supporters would get out of hand."
Excuse me?
CALLING DR. BILL LONEY, STAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh wait, Aslan, did you mean "supporters" or "detractors"?
karen
Karen,
Closely read what "aslan" wrote again. Hint: I highlighted the key words in my quote.
My comment with regard to the other churches that got out of hand is that surely there was a rising of the tensions preceeding those outbursts. I watched the Utube of the meeting and it looked to me that everyone was the picture of decorum, even being overcomplimentary, I thought. Could the meeting not have been shut down when and if tempers started to flare as opposed to before? Maybe it never would have been a problem. We'll never know.
:(
Karen,
Reread, please. He was concerned about the GAINES SUPPORTERS getting out of hand.
CHarlie: Why would the GAINES SUPPORTERS have gotten out of hand????
Remember what we were told this past Sunday. When the leader sins in moderation, the people commit in excess".
Hard words to live by.
O.K. I thought I should refer to the quote exactly so as to not cause any hysterics today.
Remember! - "Sins committed in moderation by a leader
are often amplified in excess by their followers."
concernedSBCer said...
CHarlie: Why would the GAINES SUPPORTERS have gotten out of hand????
REPLY:
It is a BOGUS answer, and that's why I made an EMERGENCY call for Dr. BILL LONEY!!!!
Emergency call for Dr. Loney! Paging Dr. Loney! Come to the Psyc Ward ASAP!
karen said...
What's the greek word for HOGWASH again??
ανάγουλεσ
You go, Solomon!!!!
(of course, what do I know!!!)
Oh, duh! NOW I get it! Thanks to NASS and Charlie!
FYI, Billy Graham's wife, Ruth, has passed on.
concernedSBCer said...
You go, Solomon!!!!
(of course, what do I know!!!)
REPLY:
Solomon is correct. Us Baptist Orthodox know that stuff.
From MSNBC on the passing of Ruth Graham:
"As Mrs. Billy Graham, Ruth Graham could lay claim to being the first lady of evangelical Protestantism, but neither exploited that unique status nor lusted for the limelight."
She was one of the great ladies of our lifetime and sought no recognition for it, such a contrast with much of the Christian leadership of today.
Checking in and have a few questions...
the posts by nathanb and aslan now give us NEW and IMPROVED reasons from DC on why the meeting was shut down....
HOW MANY reasons are we going to get?????
Is it impossible for leadership to just tell the truth? One answer?
Why aren't they embarrassed to keep changing their story???
Why doesn't the fact that DC keeps adding to and changing the reasons, concern anyone?
Why would the ministers that have MAYBE been confused not have a check in their spirit about being a part of deceitfulness?
32+,
You always added much to our band of truthseekers!!! I hate to see you disappear. God Bless you and your family.
concernedSBCer said...
You go, Solomon!!!!
(of course, what do I know!!!)
REPLY:
Solomon is correct. Us Baptist Orthodox know that stuff.
That's right, Charlie. And (thanks to dictionary.com) we're equally fluent in Russian.
Бог так полюбило мир
:-)
Did anyone notice that the SBC passed a resolution on GLOBAL WARMING?
Lynn wrote:
"Did anyone notice that the SBC passed a resolution on GLOBAL WARMING?"
Were they for or against it (global warming)?
This is what it said:
The resolution, which passed via raised ballots with only a few opposing votes, said messengers urge “Southern Baptists to proceed cautiously in the human-induced global warming debate in light of conflicting scientific research.” The resolution also “strongly request[s] that all public policy decision makers ensure an appropriate balance between care for the environment, effects on economies, and impacts on the poor when considering programs to reduce CO2 and other greenhouse gas emissions.”
Folks, Global Warming is a liberal myth. The earth heats and cools in cycles. Not to mention....CO2 is plant food! I'm ashamed that the SBC is buying into this garbage.
Lynn wrote:
Did anyone notice that the SBC passed a resolution on GLOBAL WARMING?
I was aghast when I read that on the SBC site. What that tells me is there is denial of some of the real problems. That they would waste one nano-second promoting let alone voting on such a resolution tells me they are blindly ignoring the gorilla sitting in the middle of the room.
I find that very discouraging.
:-(
klavierliebfrau: I agree. The elephant in the living room kind of thing?
concernedsbcer wrote:
klavierliebfrau: I agree. The elephant in the living room kind of thing?
yeah (grinning) I was afraid I'd mix a metaphor or something! I couldn't remember if it was a 200 lb or a 1000 lb gorilla on the table. But was it an elephant in the living room? Yes, I think so. Unfortunately we get slammed nonetheless.
MOM4 said...
From MSNBC on the passing of Ruth Graham:
"As Mrs. Billy Graham, Ruth Graham could lay claim to being the first lady of evangelical Protestantism, but neither exploited that unique status nor lusted for the limelight."
Wonder if her supporters ever put up a display of her tiara, childhood dress, trophies, etc, at the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association offices?
Junk: Truthfully, I doubt she would have let them.
aslan wrote:
"David's very latest (as of yesterday afternoon) is that they were concerned that the Gaines supporters would get out of hand."
Piglet says:
So does that mean they were afraid they might have to jump on us and beat us to a pulp if we said something out of line?
Ain't that sweet of them to think of us like that? :)
klavier....
Your name is too hard for me!
I am so glad someone else has trouble with those type things.
elephant...gorilla....
what's the diff?
Someone in the know,summarize what's going on at SBC for me...
I didn't even know Baptists were SO varied in theology until this blog now I see the Wade guy at odds with what is MAYBE ..out with the old??? or is it "tolerance" or is it again about power and control??
Iam just lost trying to understand.
Whoever answers...try not to use all the theology words...break it down please.
The resolution on global warming was much longer than what was posted here. Messengers sent by the local churches are allowed to submit resolutions in advance and they are reviewed by the committee beforehand. This particular resolution was actually amended before it was voted on.
Hellllloooooooo..............
anyone there?????
come out! come out! where ever you are ..
(in the tune of the good witch on the wizard of oz)
who used to be a regular on the blog alot but has stopped posting????????? just askin...
GMommy: You've got MORE mail! LOL
I'm not sure why the SBC felt it had to hold forth on global warming, but my reading (of what was posted here) is that they were calling for balance. The myth of global warming is now so firmly entrenched in the public consciousness (newspapers speak of it as fact) that opposing views and evidence to the contrary are rejected out of hand. Any doubt at all (i.e., balance) is seen as willful, reactionary ignorance. Like evolution, it has become a religious war not based on evidence but rather in spite of it. Al Gore is the Chicken Little of the age.
Now that alarmists have established the "fact" of global warming, they're using the same techniques to blame man for it. When that goal is accomplished, look for them to come after your rights and establish federal bureaucracies with themselves in charge. It's easy to see why environmentalism has become a bastion for Socialists. It's very versatile. Is the problem automobile exhaust or cattle farming? Maybe it's heterosexuality. It's all good, a little something for every cause.
When was the last time you heard anything about the hole in the ozone layer, good or bad? Is it all better now that fluorocarbons are banned? No one cares; the goal was accomplished. Now it costs $12.99 to recharge your car's air conditioning instead of 99 cents.
Rant over. As you were...
All2Jesus: Good rant. All true.
I don't usually stand and applaud...but I make this exception for your wonderful rant!!! I concur!
Could you rant while on a skateboard?????????
32yrs@bbc said...
WHY and hisunseenhand,
Please open your eyes and look around you as you enter Bellevue Baptist Church. Ask yourself: "Is this the same church it was two years ago? Is God blessing our church with the power of His presence as He has in the past - or has the Spirit of the Lord departed? Are the empty seats, semi-empty classrooms, departing teachers and choir members an indication that something is very wrong? How is this vast complex going to be maintained without the tithes and offerings of the thousands who have departed?"
Sometimes when we whole-heartedly pick up the offense of someone, we become blinded to the facts. Could it be possible that your emotions are overruling the cold hard facts?
Denial is a way of escape but at some point reality has to set in.
I pray it will be for you soon.
6:31 AM, June 14, 2007
Reply,
Concerned, I can appreciate your post and I do believe that you are sincere in your stand and that you feel that it is time for you to move on to another congregation. I want to commend you for doing the right thing and leaving BBC (not that I take joy in your decision) I disagree with your thoughts; yet I can maintain respect.
I did lower my standards to the standards of a few people on this blog site, those who continue to keep their name on the roll of BBC and present themselves as a talebearer and trouble maker.
I along with a host of others are sick and tired of the rotten apples in the barrel and are ready to throw them out.
Yes, you think they are right and you all have freedom to think what you want to think but for Christ sake have enough love for Him to just leave.
I want to share some comments which were made this past Sunday prior to Church services and afterwards: People were "eager for the Pastor to return" After service, the comments were, "Pastor Steve preached the best sermon ever"
His CDs went so fast, many such as I had to be placed on a new order list.
Sunday night, the pastor wasn't there but the same Spirit was working and people were in awe.
You can deny it all you want to but God is working in BBC in a mighty way. Jamie Parker announced that the chior has 39 new members, Tim Simpson is singing with them.
There are a lot of mission trips going on this summer. The story could go on and on of the good things that are happening in BBC.
I have tried over the past to commuicate with several of those who post on this site only to be met with hostility.
You suggest that I open my eyes and look around when I enter the doors of BBC. I have and I see exactly what has happened (God has shown up and cleansed the temple) when I make this statement I am talking about the heart of the believers beginning with the pastor and on down. I do not have my head in the sand; I watch and listen very closely to all conversations and rely on the Holy Spirit to guide my heart in the way of justice.
You have made the right choice for you by leaving but please do not go out and take stabs at our congregation or our Pastor.
A great number of people have decided to leave in peace and this was expected to happen as with any new pastor.
I would have left if the pastor had been a Calvinist because I totally disagree with the teaching. Our Pastor is straight up in theology. Dr. Rogers would never have picked him, if he wasn't. I know some think that Mrs. Rogers disagrees with that statement and maybe she does but it doesn't change the fact that Dr. Rogers highly recommended our Pastor and "he did an excellent job."
Sorry for the length of this but I just want you to understand that I am very much in the know of both sides of these issues and the big picture of it all is BBC is changing and it needed to change. Where does real change begin? Within the heart and then it works it's way out. BBC is experiencing a revival but those on the outside have not seen it yet, but they will!
The church doesn't have to be filled in order to have a revival as a matter of fact it can be only a few souls there and it is ok when God is there with you.
I pray that you experience a rival in your Spirit as you choose to do the right thing with a group of people who are like minded. I am sorry you do not have that with us but it is ok God can use you somewhere else and He can use others in BBC.
Thank you for your expressions of concern and please know that I have considered every word.
Farewell
PS. For those who choose to pick this posting and cast your stones go ahead and enjoy yourselves.
Offline
Good night everyone!
hisunseenhand wrote (again):
"Farewell"
This time for real?
Yep, Karen. Regarding our 2:00 p.m. exchange today... positively, absolutely choice "d"! No question about it.
AllofGrace, 32years,
You guys might consider sticking around, or at least find an outlet for in-person fellowship with this group. I'm all for moving on and not letting NBBCOF become a repository for an endless extrapolation of sins, conspiracies and recriminations.
Man, you folks who have invested so much of yourselves in Bellevue for years, then asked to cash in your chips--that's some tough crap.
I know--when my Sangha split over a sex scandal, our group was so small, people just either cowtowed to the disgraced teacher or scattered their separate ways, dealing with the aftermath on their own. It is a terribly lonely and wrenching place to find oneself, especially when the ethical lapse cuts right into the quick of his or her spiritual life. It's sort of embarassing even.
I just hope you value the bond you share, and you all could be a benefit to one another if you make it a point to do so. It's important.
I say in love.
D.
Dcakes,
You are just so sweet!!!
Cakes: I think you make a good point. You said, "...dealing with the aftermath on their own. It is a terribly lonely and wrenching place to find oneself, especially when the ethical lapse cuts right into the quick of his or her spiritual life." I think that has been some of the benefit of the blog....it's not quite so lonely.
God has again put feet to Romans 8:28. Many friendships have been forged, verses studied, issues debated.....all growing experiences.
It's the pits it had to happen, but God is on His Throne and He is in control.
Cakes,
I understand and appreciate your sentiments. I've said what I've said to this group out of love to them as their brother in the LORD. I've been through this kind of thing before and I know the dangers, and it is in that context that I speak to them. I know all too well how easy it is to become cynical and to languish spiritually in these situations where one is displaced. This forum has provided a place to discuss issues, vent frustrations, etc. But I know how easy it is for something like this to become a substitute for the fellowship of a local body of believers, and I know that is not God's intent for His people. I understand how difficult it is to say good-bye to fellow church members and make that step in faith to find and bind onesself to another fellowship...don't think that I don't. But here's a reality...for the Christian there are no permanent good-byes...only temporary separations. That is one of the great hopes we have...though many of us will not be in the same local fellowship again on this earth, we know that one day we will be gathered again as one body, and the fellowship then will be sweeter than it ever could be on this earth...no more divisions, no more strife, no more sin. If we keep that perspective, it will make the transition much more hopeful.
AllofGrace: AMEN.
AH, the sweet whyne of DETROLLING music.
Charlie,
Remember, choice "d" -- all of the above. It's the only explanation I can think of.
For those whose complaint against Dr. Gaines has been that he does not preach on Wednesday nights, David Coombs has announced that Dr. Gaines will be preaching on the next three Wednesday nights. He will be continuing the current series in Romans.
There, problem solved.
And regarding Global warming, I won't rant--but c'mon, it is not a myth. Check this out (warning: no theologians were asked about the science, scientists were):
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/photogalleries/global_warming/
This is from National geographic, not Al Gore (his new book is awesome, BTW).
Cakes: You've got mail.
New BBC Open Forum said...
Charlie,
Remember, choice "d" -- all of the above. It's the only explanation I can think of.
REPLY:
After much personal deliberation and consideration, I have decided that I agree with you, the only choice is "BIG D"
aslansown said...
For those whose complaint against Dr. Gaines has been that he does not preach on Wednesday nights, David Coombs has announced that Dr. Gaines will be preaching on the next three Wednesday nights. He will be continuing the current series in Romans.
There, problem solved.
Reply: See how much time a Pastor now has when his speaking engagements dry up because of his open sin? Glad Steve can fit Pastoring his church in his busy schedule.
Global warming.......
Just more evidence of man's arrogance in believing somehow, someway that he has any impact on the longevity of God's own creation. And even more arrogance believing that we can do anything to change His timing. My, my we do think of ourselves as powerful...
Now Ez,
You must be pro-life, because abortion is man's impact on God's creation. Some would argue that it is arrogance to believe that the accelerated rate of extinction since the industrial revolution, that man coexist with other of God's creations in an interdependent ecosystem.
The earth will survive, but as George Carlin likes to correct, it shouldn't be "save the earth," but save the humans. I remember from my upbringing that man was placed in dominion, sort of like a church pastor, and that such an exalted position comes with responsibilities and consequences for bad management.
My stepmother was a Mormon, and a big part of their deal is "be fruitful and multiply." They make babies, period. She laughed at the myth of overpopulation, since there is plenty more land unoccupied by humans, as if every parcel of the earth could be claimed and that the earth could sustain that.
It all goes back to one can believe whatever he or she will.
lovecakes said...
Now Ez,
You must be pro-life, because abortion is man's impact on God's creation.
REPLY:
You can absolutely put me on the PRO-LIFE list.
That should have been:
Some would argue that it is arrogance to believe that the accelerated rate of extinction since the industrial revolution is God's plan;
Otherwise, any innocent woman, man or child killed during war is man's impact on God's creation, bilking the old or vulnerable is man's impact on God's creation, clearcutuung rainforests is man's impact on God's creation, oil spills are man's impact on God's creation, the extinction of polar bears, amphibians and scores of birds and other wildlife are mankind's impacts on God's creation.
It has been suggested that the glut of wireless phone towers is possibly the cause of the vanishing bees. But who needs honey anyway?
Is the extinction of the dinosaurs and like creatures mankind's impact on God's creation.
Lovecakes said…
“I remember from my upbringing that man was placed in dominion, sort of like a church pastor, and that such an exalted position comes with responsibilities and consequences for bad management.”
What a sly statement you put forth, Lovecakes! (I won’t ask how you came to have such a name as Lovecakes, but it is a bit much, don’t you think?) There is much more in your statement than meets the eye, as I’m sure you are well aware.
Your premise is a bit flawed. God did indeed place man in dominion over the whole earth; however, your upbringing should also have taught you that this event occurred in the Garden of Eden, and man was in a perfect, sinless condition as he walked and communed with God. This happened prior to man’s fall into sin by yielding to Satan’s temptation of Eve via the Serpent. Surely you remember that, don’t you?
As a result of that sin which is known as the fall of man, the entire earth was cursed of God and man’s dominion over the earth was taken from him and given over to the prince of the power of the air – Satan.
One look at the world around you and it should not be too difficult to see that Satan is still in control today. But I assure you, he will lose in the end when Jesus Christ returns to set all things right!
Oh, and you can put me squarely in the pro-life camp also.
Now, back to my manuscript. Oh, and better luck next time, Mr. Cakes. :)
Mary,
I admit, you're a better theologian than me.
Now, about the science--what say you?
And it does nothing to disuade the argument that man has an effect on the environment and that nature herself goes through tumultuous cycles--the two are not mutually exclusive.
But if the dinosaur argument suffices your inquiry, the God bless.
And if man no longer has dominion over the earth, it is pretty obvious he didn't get the memo. HAHA.
WHY said
David's reason was a very good one. Many also knew that "your side" had a planned agenda and a detailed plan of questions. There was a specific list of motions and some motions that might have made things get ugly on either side. Why do most of you act as if "your side" did not have a plan?
Piglet says:
See, you CAN post without caps, exclaimation points, and an angry face. Now didn't that feel good?
To answer you, of course we had a plan. But not for evil doing - only for accountability of the leadership before the Lord and the members they say they serve.
cakes,
Definately put me in the pro-life column.
As to the impact of man....Man sins. Man certainly has an impact on God's creation and I would argue that we are certainly punished for the negative impact and rewarded for the positive impact we have on His creation.
Count babies there as well. All I have to do is just look at any of my children, at any stage in their lives, from a little less than 3 lbs fitting in my hand to more than 185 lbs eating at my table...I can only be consumed with unspeakable amazement for His ability to create. And I might add, since it is coing up on fathers day...Thanks to Him and the Wife that worked so hard to make this incredible miracle a reality in my life!
I said impact on "longevity" of His creation and His timing. One of these days soon He will have had enough. To believe that we have any impact on the temperature of the earth and thereby have an impact on the timing of our own extinction is to ignore most of the prophecy in the WORD.
Do you really believe that the One that created the sun doesn't control the rate of burn? What are the solar flares? He can boost the temp or turn it down easier than I control the temp on my oven.
The world will end on the day and at the hour only God knows. Jesus doesn't even know. Only the Father.
lovecakes said...
Mary,
I admit, you're a better theologian than me.
Now, about the science--what say you?
REPLY:
There is man’s science, some of which is accurate and some of which is flawed to the point of being mere folly; and then there is God’s Word, and anytime there is a discrepancy in the two, I will hold to the latter. God uses the simple things to confound the wise of this world, and I reference the following:
I Corinthians 3: 18 – 21:
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;
Man’s science says that the earth is warming, but you fail to mention that man’s science also says that Mars is warming. I suppose those little green Martians are burning too much fossil fuel also. What a strange coincidence!
And as for the dinosaur argument, if you will refer to the Book of Job you will find there were mammoths and leviathans on the earth in Job’s day. And what do you think about those “giants” that roamed the land in Old Testament times? Another mere coincidence?
But you are correct about one thing, Mr. Cakes: man most certainly did not get the memo regarding who has dominion over the earth.
I would enjoy pursuing this, but I have no more time today – three of the most lovable, unaborted fetus’s in all of God’s creation are tugging on Gran’s arm and begging me to let them get in the pool. :)
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