Tuesday, May 15, 2007

Not the Right Timing, Huh?


Well, the $64,000 question has finally been answered! For weeks people have been asking why the March 25th "business" meeting was adjourned so abruptly. Now we have the answer... or at least an excuse.

"Seekinghiswill" wrote:

"Brothers and sisters in Christ should be able to express their views and there is a proper place and time for a calm, peaceful meeting but it was obvious that the business meetings was not the right timing because there were rising tempers from both sides which would have produced no good fruits. For this reason we were for the meeting to be dismissed. I look forward to the time when we all can sit down and have a meeting with the Judge."

Oh, really? You know, I wholeheartedly agree with the first part of that statement. Church members should be able to express their views at the proper place and time, but I would hope that time and place would be sometime and somewhere this side of heaven!

I can only assume "seekinghiswill" is referring to the March 25th "monkey business" meeting. If so, I must have missed all those "rising tempers." The meeting I attended was quite calm, and the people participating in the meeting (bringing motions, etc.), from everything I saw, were always respectful of each other. There was that ugly little display by Donna Gaines' sister at the very end and the woman heard praying loudly during the opening "prayer circles" for the Lord to "deal with those... who would divide... our... church," but I digress.

Let's take a look at the rest of the motions (of which I'm aware) that members were poised to make:


1. Motion on Non Disclosure Agreements for the Staff

I move that staff members of Bellevue Baptist Church shall discontinue the practice of requesting or requiring staff members to sign any kind of non-disclosure agreement in regard to their employment at Bellevue Baptist Church; and that any staff member or former staff member having signed such a non-disclosure agreement shall likewise be released, in writing, from said agreement.

2. Motion on Disqualification of Ministers For Sexual Misconduct

I move that we affirm our belief in the scriptural authority of I Timothy 3 and Titus 1 for the qualifications for ministerial service, and that we affirm to our larger community, committees and staff, that sexual misconduct is a reason for disqualification from ministerial service within the authority of scriptural qualifications set out in I Timothy 3 and Titus 1.

Remember, this is the one that Steve Gaines said is "only a guideline."

3. Motion on Committees - Membership

I make the following motion regarding committee membership:

No church member may serve on more than one committee, elected or ex officio, including ad hoc committees, unless serving on a second committee or ad hoc committee in only a non-voting capacity. Laypersons should not serve more than three years on committees, followed by at least one year without serving on any committee, similar to the deacon rotation.

No member shall chair the same, or different committees more than once in any three consecutive years. For example, if chairing Committee A this year, the member cannot chair Committee A or any other committee the next year or following year.

No member may serve on the same committee for more than 3 years in any 10-year period. This does not restrict the member from serving on other committees during the ten years.

4. Motion on Financial Expenditures

I move that any financial expenditure will be subject to review by any member of Bellevue Baptist Church, upon request, at reasonable times and with reasonable notice.

5. Motion On Congregational Meetings Seeking Reconciliation

I move that Bellevue Baptist Church conduct one or more fair and impartial congregational meetings, to include our Senior Pastor and ministerial staff, as necessary to give its members the opportunity to hear both sides of the issues that continue to divide the church body and with the first meeting to be held within the next four weeks.

And the one that was actually brought to the floor and passed...

6. Motion on Committees – Conflicts of Interest

I make the following motion regarding conflicts of interest for committee membership:

1. That potential committee members shall disclose any conflict of interest, real or potential, in regard to the committee for which they are nominated. Such statements should disclose:

If the committee nominee, or member(s) of the nominee's immediate family have business relationships with, or are a partner, officer, or key employee of an enterprise doing business with Bellevue Baptist Church, or the officers or key employees of Bellevue Baptist Church, or the immediate family of officers or key employees of Bellevue Baptist Church.

2. No member shall be allowed to participate in a committee review or decision that would have a financial impact upon the member or member’s immediate family.

Conflicts should be avoided by the Committee on Committees or other nominating entities when proposing committee members. The intent of this motion is to avoid conflicts or potential conflicts, for example:

A member, doing business with the church, should not be placed upon a committee that is materially related to the business being conducted.

The important question is, have we seen any changes in committee memberships because of this motion being passed by the congregation?

Can anyone explain why "no good fruits" would (or could) have come from these motions being brought to the floor in a calm, respectful manner?

496 comments:

1 – 200 of 496   Newer›   Newest»
MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
New BBC Open Forum said...

mom4,

I understand the "hateful looks" came from Dempsey Dodds and the "unholy comments" came from Donna's sister, Julie Rosenberger. I don't think Mrs. Dodds, though present, was ever involved in the "hostilities."

Their whole family was seen repeatedly jumping up and applauding, even after Bryan Miller asked several times that people refrain from doing so.

Donna's sister and her daughter were witnessed voting on every motion even though they are not members of BBC. That took a lot of gall... or maybe not. I suppose RULES apply only to people who aren't his relatives or in Steve Gaines' good graces.

Repeated requests for meetings with him by various groups and individuals have continued to be ignored. Oh... yeah. I forgot. Matthew 18 doesn't apply to the pastor either.

Karen said...

Tempers were fine at that meeting - I know a man who went to David Coombs the following week and David said the meeting was contrived and they shut it down early. This is NOT GOSSIP or SLANDER. This is FLAT TRUTH! Deal with it or don't - that doesn't change the fact that David Coombs said the business meeting was contrived.

karen

sickofthelies said...

Let's Face it: Ms. Tapp couldn't care less about the sexual purity of the ministers on staff at BBC, and those who DO care are just being devisive.

SeekingHisWill said...

I want the names of the first hand witnesses who saw any of the Gaines or extended family members acting in an inappropriate or ungodly way in that meeting. I was sitting near them and also near Josh Manning who was directly behind them.
I also want to say this to NASS when you are placing me on the blog site you have very little news to right about and that is a good thing. I count it all joy and am happy to take the heat off of someone else. I see what you are doing so go ahead and have a, "hayday" Where were your minds and your eyes? There was a vote on the dismisal of the meeting. The motion was made, voted on and passed by the congregation. The Dodds did not say one word and to be honest many of us marveled at their composure considering the way Josh has publically tried to disgrace their daughter and her family. I wonder what any of you would have done if the shoe was on the other foot. Once again NASS you are trying to tempt me but I will not, "go there" I have witnessed to whoever was reading your site today, the mission done!

Lynn said...

I for one refuse to submit to pastors who are so corrupt that Mayor Herenton looks squeaky clean. In my honest opinion, Steve Gaines has no honor.

Lets face it folks, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the corruption. The PW scandal spoke volumes of that.

Lin said...

"The Dodds did not say one word and to be honest many of us marveled at their composure considering the way Josh has publically tried to disgrace their daughter and her family."

Mrs. Tapp, How did Josh disgrace them? Can you give specifics? I saw the video of his motions and cannot find where he disgraced anyone. But, I would be interested in hearing specifics of his disgracing the Gaines family.

Thank you.

Piglet said...

Thanks for your sincere response to my questions.

But please consider this - If Mrs. R wanted to escape negative talk, why would she attend the same church where the biggest percentage of "troublemakers" are - as well as the ministers that have left BBC and where Mike Spradlin is the pastor?

I wish you could have sat in the balcony and seen Jim haywood, the Sharpe family, and the Rogers family on the same row - with Josh Manning sitting directly behind them. Work on that for yourself.

I believe you are in total denial. Maybe these offenses have not been proven for YOU, but many of us have proof and personal testimony and that of those involved. Could it be that you lack proof for the same reason a theif can't find a policeman?

Have you talked with the Rogers family or are you basing your suppositions on speculation and wishful thinking?

Note: I don't base my decisions on theirs. We were visiting GBC before we knew they were.


Mark Sharpe followed Matt. 18 in confronting the pastor concerning his actions and lies. This Biblical process was thwarted by the leadership and the attempts to cover up and misrepresent the facts have caused the "damage" you describe.

If scripture had been followed from the beginning, we would not be where we are today.

But Gaines would not be pastor either, as these issues would not have been buried, but would be out in the open and there would have been precious little he could do to side step the issues in an open honest forum where he could not control the outcome.

6:13 PM, May 15, 2007

Piglet said...

offline until later

Piglet said...

shw said

The Dodds did not say one word and to be honest many of us marveled at their composure considering the way Josh has publically tried to disgrace their daughter and her family. I wonder what any of you would have done if the shoe was on the other foot.


Piglet says:

How on earth did Josh try to disgrace anyone? He made a motion that we have quarterly business meetings and require sexual integrity from our ministers. Is there something you're not telling us about Donna and the Dodds?

Really offline.

MOM4 said...

Josh did NOT disgrace anyone, although with the way he was treated, he would have had every right to do so. Yet he used sincere, polished eloquence to make his motions while those whose malicious agenda was to contrive a meeting and those who were foolish enough to believe that the motion to adjourn was spontaneous and those who were so blind that they did not look around and see that the vote to adjourn was too close to call and those that were so blind that they did not notice that the administration had cut the feed to the microphones so no one could request a count - these are the ones that are in serious spiritual trouble and Ms Tapp is showing herself to be among the top of the list.

That meeting was a lie, a farce and a travesty in the name of Holy God. David Coombs, Bryan Miller, Steve Gaines and others in charge of this lie have a lot to answer for when and if they ever decide to make peace with God. How can Steve Gaines preach with this much sin in his heart? He can't!! That's why his sermons are as shallow as the business meeting!
The very same people that sat under the wise teachings of Dr Adrian Rogers are now sitting in a stupor, clapping and swaying under the leadership of a man who neither cares for them or cares about them. Don't fool yourselves.

WatchingHISstory said...

If scripture had been followed at the beginning we would not be where we are today.

Now there is a truth!!!

gmommylv said...

Sorry Nass,
Put my 6:30 post to you on the wrong thread.

junk99mail said...

Oh, my, my my ...

Those planned motions were just awful! Can anyone even imagine a church that would ever consider such heretical notions as openess, transparency, moral purity, accountablity, and reconcilliation? BBC should be so proud they shut down the business meeting before such evil concepts could be aired!

Now excuse my while I wait for the sarcasm to finish dripping off my keyboard...

gmommylv said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MOM4 said...

junk,
LOL - Thanks, I needed the lightheartedness today, especially after these latest posts!

WatchingHISstory said...

Lin said...
"Direct divine revelation ended with the close of the cannon of scripture"

docbellevue said...
25+ said,

Direct divine revelation ended with the close of the cannon of scripture. Period.

Where is this in the Bible? I referenced my Strong's and cannot locate this verse.


I have found it with out the help of my Strongs. The verse is in I Cor.

I Cor 14 says: "Chapter 14 regulates the ministry of gifts in the primitive, apostolic assembly of saints." "These injunctions are declared to be the commandments of the Lord"

New BBC Open Forum said...

seeking wrote:

"Once again NASS you are trying to tempt me but I will not, 'go there'"

Awww, Ms. T. I wouldn't dream of trying to "tempt" you in any way whatsoever. You're just so... inspiring! :-) But you know what? I've removed your name from the topic heading and replaced it with your screen name. You seem to be enjoying your 15 minutes of fame a little too much.

"I want the names of the first hand witnesses who saw any of the Gaines or extended family members acting in an inappropriate or ungodly way in that meeting. I was sitting near them and also near Josh Manning who was directly behind them. I also want to say this to NASS when you are placing me on the blog site you have very little news to right about and that is a good thing."

To partially answer your question, I know the names of at least five people who witnessed firsthand the Doddses' behavior at that meeting, at least one of whom I'm especially close to, but you're not going to "tempt" me to "out" anyone who might not want to "out" him or herself, so don't even try to go there. Of course, you've already "outed" Mr. Manning who was one of those witnesses.

You know, Mr. Bratton claims he's received death threats from the "anti-Bellevue" crowd. I have no reason to believe him, but I haven't seen anyone ask for their names, nor have I seen him identify even one of them by name. Why would he want to protect them? (I know you're reading this, but don't answer that here, Mike!) If someone were sending me death threats, you can bet I'd be shouting that person's name from the rooftops -- right after I notified the authorities.

But I do know that people like Jim Haywood have, at least in the past, received some extremely disturbing letters from the "pro-Bellevue" gang. (See how ridiculous such a statement sounds!) Of course, I don't believe any of the bloggers here have threatened Mr. Bratton, but I will say that one of your letters, Ms. T., which you sent to a lot of us back in December (it was cc'd to a long list of people) sounded rather threatening to me. Rest assured if you had continued in that vein, I would have been contacting someone about you, ma'am.

"The Dodds did not say one word and to be honest many of us marveled at their composure considering the way Josh has publically tried to disgrace their daughter and her family."

What in the world are you babbling about now??? Exactly how did Josh try to "publically (sic) disgrace" their daughter and her family? The Doddses, i.e. Mr. and Mrs. Dodds, to my knowledge didn't say anything. I've never heard anyone claim they did.

Now, please read this carefully. It was their daughter, Julie Rosenberger, who turned to the people behind her at the end of the meeting and rudely stated, "You are not a part of the ministry of this church, and it's time for you to go!" Kind of hypocritical language, don't you think, from someone who isn't even a member of "this church" herself? No, ma'am. Ms. Rosenberger publicly disgraced herself. She needed no help from anyone else. Like I said... it's gall. Just plain, old, undiluted... gall.

WatchingHISstory said...

WatchingHISstory said...
junkmail

You don't much like having your errors pointed out to you, do you? :)

The message is from God, why would I care about the errors you point out. What difference does it make to me?

What is it about the "vision" that you find so strange or unbiblical?

Is it the chair? God's reference to a chair is an anthropomorphic expression commom to Biblical revelation. We don't know that there are chairs in heaven.

Is it the fact that God was speaking to AR in an angry manner?

Is AR excluded from angry judgements because of his fame and adulations of millions on this earth?

Is AR excluded because of the size of Bellevue?

Will you and I also stand before the same God one day? Will we also have to give account for the works we have done while on earth?

Will God be angry with us?

Is this too much theology?

7:23 PM, May 15, 2007

Lynn said...

Hey Watching...

Might want to cut down on the late night snacks. That might eliminate your visions for you :).

And I can recommend a good psychologist for you if you'd like :).

Lynn

New BBC Open Forum said...

whs,

You're double posting now. You've made your point. A lot of us disagree and have given you Biblical reasons why. With all due respect, please heed the advice you gave "lin" and "junk" and "get on with your life." I offered you the forum, you told your story, we discussed it, and now it's time to move on to something else. Discussing your "visions" is not the purpose of this blog.

But I will answer your last question, "Is this too much theology?"

Reply: No, it's too much bad theology.

MOM4 said...

WH,
ICor 14 discusses the gift of phophecy, but if you back up to I Cor 13 you will see the ministry gifts are to be governed in the ministry until that which is perfect is come (v10) - which is the completed Scriptures, the Word. We are now in the age where the complete Word of God is our illumination. In 1 Cor 13, it states that love alone gives any ministry gift value in the kingdom; therefore these ministry gifts are to be used in love, the New Testament prophet is not ordinarily a foreteller, but rather a forth-teller, one whose gift enables him to speak to edification and exhortation and comfort (I Cor 14:3) (Scofield)

IF your vision was of God, it would be solely for the edification, exhortation and comfort of the saints, just like all the other gifts. While I believe that the age of the gifts ended with the completion of the canon of Scripture, I also believe that the Lord does reveal himself thru the written Word; therefore, if your vision cannot be verified or confirmed with scripture, it is not of God.

WatchingHISstory said...

lynn

And what if this is from God and not the result of late night snacks.

Do you believe that there will be an accounting before God one day for yourself?

Do you personally recomend this
slychologist?

WatchingHISstory said...

NBBCOF

Do you believe that you and I will one day stand before God to give account for the life we have lived here on earth?

Lin said...

WS, This is the last I am going to respond to you about your 'vision'. And only because you brought this discussion to this thread.

As I have repeated: If I believe your vision why shouldn't I believe others who claim to have a vision from God? If I did, I am following 'man' and not the Word of God. It would be chaos and confusion. And that is not from God. All I need is...in the Word.

Think of this. The Reformation came from the reading of the Word...not from a 'vision'.

oc said...

Watching asked, Do you personally recomend this
slychologist?

Reply: Dude, now you are slurring your words. Things are getting worse. Seek help.

MOM4 said...

WH said...
"And what if this is from God and not the result of late night snacks."

WH, I believe it is more serious than a late night snack. Lynn was being kind. You are under demonic oppresson or if you are not saved, you are possessed. Please, please get some legitimate spiritual guidance.

WatchingHISstory said...

mom

Did Scofield receive a revelation for his interpretation of scripture?

(v10) - "which is the completed Scriptures, the Word." These words are not in the text. They are opinions of men and like elbows we all have two.

oc said...

NBBCOF said,

Reply: No, it's too much bad theology.

OC's Reply: Is it even theology?

WatchingHISstory said...

mom

Will you and I stand before the Lord to give an account for the works we have done in this life?

MOM4 said...

WH, so you do not think the Word is perfect? That explains a lot.

WatchingHISstory said...

oc

Do you believe that you and I will stand before the Lord one day to give account of the deeds we have done in this life?

MOM4 said...

wh said..

Will you and I stand before the Lord to give an account for the works we have done in this life?

Your question is obtuse, if it is in the Word, it is true.

You are trying to make a "point" that is pointless and moreover, it is pointless here.
You will not listen to the truth, so take your sorrid tale elsewhere. You have the marks of an unbeliever.

Lin said...

gmommylv: Why are they on this blog at all????
Why do they come here to deflect and mock and hurt us more??"

Perhaps they are trying to convince themselves by defending Gaines.

But it seems to me that if they are really confident in their decision to support Gaines, they would just ignore this blog.

OR...perhaps they come here to try and find out what is really going on at their church. Remember, they have leaders now who do not think the Body is worthy of details like finances, etc and keep things hidden.

WatchingHISstory said...

mom

WH, so you do not think the Word is perfect? That explains a lot.

"The Word was with God and was God"

Was this Word cannonized by men?

Do you believe that one day you will stand before God?

MOM4 said...

wh, you are in the dark. You are not saved if you do not believe the scriptures, you can't be! I will not respond to you again. You are a foolish unbeliever who thinks he "knows" something he dreamed up thru a very sick mind used by the devil and his demons, which is the epitome of blasphemy, pure evil. You will stand at the Great White Throne one day unless you repent.
Get thee behind me, Satan!

Lin said...

"Can anyone explain why "no good fruits" would (or could) have come from these motions being brought to the floor in a calm, respectful manner?"

Nass, it is quite simple. They could not allow these motions because that would be akin to an admittance of grievous sin by the leadership. They could simply NOT afford to have a vote.

The only way to deal with it was to end the meeting. From a fleshly- worldly view, it was their only choice. That is what happens when you ignore scripture. You get men playing church which is really becomes just an organization to edify and prosper themselves.

WatchingHISstory said...

mom

Then what is the problem with God revealing to me the vision of AR standing before him in judgement?

This lines up with the scripture.

Is AR excluded from this judgement because of the adulation of million of people here on earth.

Are rewards based on the size or results of one's ministry?

Is God capable of seeing us in a different light than we see?

Isn't this something that we all must seriously contemplate?

25+yrs@BBC said...

WH,

In bibical times visions were given to prophets. Visions were given to convey the Word of God--the scripture. If you truly had a vision from God that conveyed His words, then that would be on a par with scripture.

But John wrote the warning about adding to the Word of God in the book of Revelation.

You are a false prophet. Your "vision" was a lie--and a wicked, insensitive one at that. All unrepentant, unsaved liars have their place. If you are saved, then you are greatly deceived.

You need to take this much more seriously. You need to repent while you can still discern reality. If you truly had different sounding voices coming out of you, then you may have a demon problem.

False prophecy has a source. It is not God--and it is not funny.

In the name of Jesus I rebuke you.
Gooooooo awaaaaaaayyyyyyy!
Get thee behind all of us!

Lin said...

"Then what is the problem with God revealing to me the vision of AR standing before him in judgement?

This lines up with the scripture."

Folks, WS is missing the whole point. This could very well be that WS has had something against Dr. R for so long that he really did dream this. To be honest...for 8 years I 'dreamed' of the same thing about Clinton. :o)

Lin said...

I was kidding in my last comment about Clinton. I hope I made my point, though and no one misunderstands.

concernedSBCer said...

(from previous thread) Watching: Of course God can do anything. But I learned a long time ago that all God does is within His character. If somebody says God did something and it's outside of God's character and Word, I'd say that person was mistaken and it's not of God.

God is not the author of confusion.

David Brown said...

Dear brothers and sisters: I must have missed the full moon. Is it out? Remember last week I used the term, "kooks". Well to some if the shoe fits wear it. Now we will see who gets mad.

Brother Mike B: Please don't fret the little things. In my role in defending victims and speaking about child sexual abuse I have my fair share of them. I think I posted some time ago that I was surprised at the number I got when I tried to bring to light the "high moral failure" of both the Senior Pastor and the pedophile minister at Bellevue. What high moral failure of the Senior Pastor you ask? You got to be kidding me. Keeping it in the dark for over 6 months and then making really stupid excuses when the finger is pointed at you.

Yet I would not call those that make those threats "anti" anything. Mike if someone decides to act on one of them, so be it. I am out of here in a flash of an eye. I feel sorry for those left behind. I don't know if there are any "wrath" chairs in heaven but I do know of a few things I will see for sure. First the house that the Lord has built for me (I bet it will have a fishing lake too) and then I hope to sit down with Adrian Rogers, Jerry Falwell and the Lord Himself. And that will be for an eternity.

Nass: I admire you patience.

David Brown

Lin said...

offline

25+yrs@BBC said...

Lin,

a vision is while awake. A dream is while asleep. He claims to have had a vision from God--a vision where those who do not tire in heaven have to pull up a chair. hmmmm.

WatchingHISstory said...

mom, Do you believe this scripture?

Romans 14:10-12 (King James Version)
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

socwork said...

Amen 25+yrs!!! (re: your 8:27 post)

WatchingHISstory said...

25

Thanks! I struggled with whether I was an old man or a young man.
It was a vision from God, I was walking my dog, that makes me a young man.

Ifeel better!

WatchingHISstory said...

concernedSBCer said...
(from previous thread) Watching: Of course God can do anything. But I learned a long time ago that all God does is within His character. If somebody says God did something and it's outside of God's character and Word, I'd say that person was mistaken and it's not of God.

Now everyone listen to me! While I have told you I have had a vision from God (and no one on this blog believes me) concerned claims to know the limits of God's character and can determine who is in or out of those limits.

Now honestly will some one please recognize what is going on here!

Who is on the fringe?

WatchingHISstory said...

concerned and SG are in the same theological camp. They both know the unsearchable mysteries God.

concernedSBCer said...

Piglet: You've got mail. :)

solomon said...

But John wrote the warning about adding to the Word of God in the book of Revelation.

John wrote about adding to the book of the Revelation.

In bibical times visions were given to prophets. Visions were given to convey the Word of God--the scripture.

Visions were given to interpret the present in terms of God's work in the future.

In the name of Jesus I rebuke you.
Gooooooo awaaaaaaayyyyyyy!
Get thee behind all of us!


No comment.

concernedSBCer said...

Watching: I really don't think that's what I said. However, study in scripture shows us God's character. I'm just saying He doesn't change with the wind....He is the same yesterday, today, and always.

socwork said...

What exactly do you think concernedsbcer said in that quote that is not Biblical?

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but you have a mocking tone in your posts and that is not contributing much to your credibility.

Amy said...

SeekingHisWill said-
but it was obvious that the business meetings was not the right timing because there were rising tempers from both sides which would have produced no good fruits

Show me one instance of "Rising tempers". From what I saw and read I thought everyone behaved with good manners. I saw what I would consider passive aggressive behavior by how the meeting was manipulated by B.M and Co., but rising tempers? No.

oc said...

Watching.

Please. Are you EVER going to get to your point? Or is there no point at all? What are you trying to do here? If you tell us, maybe we can help you. Maybe not.

25+yrs@BBC said...

Solomon,

Solomon you are not. That prohibition in Revelation has been understood throughout church history as applying to all of the Bible. Only the Roman Catholics exalted their tradition above the canon. Are you Catholic?

solomon said...

WHS,

I said yesterday that I'm curious about your vision. I'd like to know all of the details before I make a decision. The Bible does not say that God is no longer able to speak through visions, and I'm not going to call you a false prophet on those grounds.

However, considering the infrequency with which God spoke through visions in the scripture, I must know more about your experience before I can accept it. Especially what led up to it. Were you seeking a vision, or was it unexpected? Was this during an unusual time of closeness to God? Did you know about the woman's applause before the vision, or was that the first you had heard about it?

Finally, how is it glorifying to God? In what ways is the name of the Lord exalted through you vision?

Amy said...

Why is the Question,

What about the MANY on your side of the issues that are NOT members and came only to vote against Brother Steve

What motions were brought up that were "against brother Steve?"

WatchingHISstory said...

socwork

In the name of Jesus I rebuke you.
Gooooooo awaaaaaaayyyyyyy!
Get thee behind all of us!

wh, you are in the dark. You are not saved if you do not believe the scriptures, you can't be! I will not respond to you again. You are a foolish unbeliever who thinks he "knows" something he dreamed up thru a very sick mind used by the devil and his demons, which is the epitome of blasphemy, pure evil. You will stand at the Great White Throne one day unless you repent.
Get thee behind me, Satan!

soc: I am aware that I have a mocking tone look at the insincere responses I am getting here.

She does not have a clue as to Rom 11:33 Neither does SG

Amy said...

O.C
You have mail?

WatchingHISstory said...

don't you all like the way I am trying to redirect to the dumping on SG.

socwork said...

watchinghissstory,

It really doesn't matter what kind of responses you get - you are blaming others for your behavior. You are responsible for your tone. Not others.

WatchingHISstory said...

No one has acknowledged that we will all stand before God to give an account for the deeds we have done!

Does anyone take this thought serious?

Will tears and heaven coexist?

off-line

25+yrs@BBC said...

Solomon (or is it Ace?),

You are mistaken on almost evey point of your post. Vision was the main way that God conveyed His Word in the Bible. If God actually spoke to WH in a vision, how is that different from the scriptures where the Lord speaks? To which of the other 65 books will you append it? Will you make it the 67th book?

You are playing a game that is not funny either. You know that WH's "vision" is repulsive to most posting here, so you want him to repeat it, answer questions, bring it by the bar of your reason, submit it to your subjective opinion.

We live in a generation that cannot stomach rebuke... that cannot stomach consequences for sin... We live in a soft-minded, sinful-habited, calloused-hearted culture that has invaded our churches.

Leviticus 19:17 'You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him.

Psalm 141:5 Let the righteous strike me; It shall be a kindness. And let him rebuke me; It shall be as excellent oil; Let my head not refuse it. For still my prayer is against the deeds of the wicked.

1 Timothy 5:20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

Revelation 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

concernedSBCer said...

Watching: Of course we will all stand before God.

Rom 14:12: So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Will tears and heaven coexist?

Revelation 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

I'd say that is a no.

25+yrs@BBC said...

FYI--"vision" as direct revelation from God in the Bible:

Numbers 12:6 Then He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream."

Gen. 15:1
Num. 12:6
Num. 24:4
Num. 24:16
1 Sam. 3:15
2 Sam. 7:17
1 Chr. 17:15
2 Chr. 32:32
Job 20:8
Job 33:15
Ps. 89:19
Isa. 1:1
Isa. 21:2
Isa. 22:1
Isa. 22:5
Isa. 28:7
Isa. 29:7
Isa. 29:11
Jer. 14:14
Jer. 23:16
Lam. 2:9
Ezek. 7:13
Ezek. 7:26
Ezek. 8:4
Ezek. 11:24
Ezek. 12:22
Ezek. 12:23
Ezek. 12:24
Ezek. 12:27
Ezek. 13:7
Ezek. 43:3
Dan. 2:19
Dan. 7:2
Dan. 8:1
Dan. 8:2
Dan. 8:13
Dan. 8:15
Dan. 8:16
Dan. 8:17
Dan. 8:26
Dan. 8:27
Dan. 9:21
Dan. 9:23
Dan. 9:24
Dan. 10:1
Dan. 10:7
Dan. 10:8
Dan. 10:14
Dan. 10:16
Dan. 11:14
Obad. 1:1
Mic. 3:6
Nah. 1:1
Hab. 2:2
Hab. 2:3
Zech. 13:4
Matt. 17:9
Lk. 1:22
Lk. 24:23
Acts 9:10
Acts 9:12
Acts 10:3
Acts 10:17
Acts 10:19
Acts 11:5
Acts 12:9
Acts 16:9
Acts 16:10
Acts 18:9
Acts 26:19
Rev. 9:17

solomon said...

25+,

I appreciate the slap, but I am a Solomon (Keith), just like my dad was. (Maybe I should boost my credibility by changing my screen name to 38+years@bbc.)

John said not to add to the scripture, but not to take away from it either.

"And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."

No one in history has taken more away from the canon than Martin Luther, who discarded the entire book of James (the 'epistle of straw') because it conflicted with his doctrine of grace. Was his share of the tree of life taken away? If not, was John mistaken? (I think I see a lot of fruit from his life, btw.)

That prohibition in Revelation has been understood throughout church history as applying to all of the Bible. Only the Roman Catholics exalted their tradition above the canon. Are you Catholic?

Let me get this straight...

Church tradition says that the prohibition applies to all of scripture. The Catholics questioned this, and by speaking against church tradition they were speaking against the canon (which was confirmed by the Catholic church)?

I don't understand what you're saying. Church tradition is canonical? Are you Catholic?

Lynn said...

Why is the question? said...

"PLEASE spare me. Yes it is slander and you know it. True or false, when you write something like that, you hurt Brother Steve and Donna and their reputation in someone's eyes."

Lynn Says...

Steve Gaines has done a good job of hurting their own reputation themselves. They don't need anyone's help doing that.

25+yrs@BBC said...

Solomon,

I'm actually glad that you are not another handle for a former poster who is well known to long time posters here.

So far as your point about Luther; it is true that he questioned James' canonicity. Questioning and cutting a book out of the corpus are two different things.

Regarding the Catholic church: at the Council of Trent the Catholic Church added many books to their canon. The Reformers' cry was sola scriptura.

The Roman church placed tradition on a par with scripture. Just to make their point they added books to their Bible.

solomon said...

25+years said...

Solomon (or is it Ace?),


You know, 25+years, a few months ago I would have been insulted and gotten angry about your put down.

However, thanks to the true Christian encouragement of people like Amy, junk99mail, concernedsbcer, Mike Bratton, and even Dr. Bill Loney, I'm not worried about it.

You think you have cornered the market on God's Word, and everyone who sees things differently is mistaken.

To you, sir, I simply share 1 Corinthians 8:2.

The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know.

nathanb said...

"I want the names of the first hand witnesses who saw any of the Gaines or extended family members acting in an inappropriate or ungodly way in that meeting. I was sitting near them and also near Josh Manning who was directly behind them. I also want to say this to NASS when you are placing me on the blog site you have very little news to right about and that is a good thing."

To partially answer your question, I know the names of at least five people who witnessed firsthand the Doddses' behavior at that meeting, at least one of whom I'm especially close to, but you're not going to "tempt" me to "out" anyone who might not want to "out" him or herself, so don't even try to go there. Of course, you've already "outed" Mr. Manning who was one of those witnesses.

NOW YOU KNOW WHY STEVE GAINES DOES NOT ALLOW ANYONE IN THE SERVICE TO HAVE A VIDEO CAMERA. A CAMERA CATCHES IT ALL AND CAN'T BE DENIED.

How many times has SG said one thing and denied it just in time for it to be proved on video? DC gave SG the best advice when he told him to drop out of sight and stop speaking in public.

Mrs. BTapp, do you remember your nasty emails sent last year? I read your emails and thought some of the people you mentioned could have called the police and pressed charges against you for the threats made.

I was heartbroken that our beloved BBC had someone teaching SS like you. I guess we didn't realize the full meaning of SG saying after he came that "It was going to be a new day at Bellevue."

25+yrs@BBC said...

Solomon,

It was not an intended put down. Your posting lately has been much like Ace's earlier posting. Ace would even take people's screen names and add a few posts for them.

So far as your acusation that I have posted here in a spirit of pride. I knew Dr. Rogers personally. I loved him a a brother and mentor in the Lord. I have spoken to his family about WH and know how they feel about his posting.

What I have posted was for the purpose of keeping WH's "vision" in perspective. It should have never been allowed on this blog.

I wrote earlier that it was a shame to relate it and that it would be a shame to allow it to stay.

WatchingHISstory said...

Solomon

so sorry, I forgot your questions,

Yesa it came through a diligent search from God. I sincerely ask God early last year to show me what was really wrong with American Fundamentalism today.

It was during extereme closeness to God starting Dec 22, 2005 and still ongoing to this day.

I was at Bellevue 5 or 6 years ago and witnessed the clapping episode so it was not revealed in the vision.

Since everyone already thinks I am crazy I will tell you of a very unusual encounter with a snake last year that led me to believe that God was preparing me for something. While walking the dog one evening down toward Peterson Lake I almost stepped on a large black "rat snake" (about 3-4 feet long) My dog never reacted at all to the snake and he reacts to any thing moving. The snake's head was raised about 4 inches so we both made eye to eye contact. I backed away from the snake about 8-10 feet and two ladies came toward me on bicycles. I tried to wave the ladies back but they rode on toward the snake. The first lady stopped right at the snake and straddled her bike looked around and said, "I don't see a snake" I am looking at the snake. The second lady did the same and she didn't see the snake while I am looking right at it. Teenagers were at the other end of the path and I warned them of the snake and of coarse everyone of them ran to see the snake and they did not see the snake.

Last December I suddenly and unexpectantly saw the vision.

Like the snake incident no one will believe me and that seemed to be the message God had for me.

Like those on this blog their eyes are blinded so they can nor will not see.

What has this done to gloryfy God. It has caused me to see that God is angry with American self-determination and the way self gets in the way of leadership. God is the real victim and is offended at American Christianity while the rest of the world is bless with his presence and experiencing revival.

It has caused me to see "little people" in a different way, in a way he sees them. Solomon, he is not impressed with the greatness or the wealth of our ministries but he is hearing the desire of the humble and preparing their heart to hear and eyes to see.

America tramples the little people and this trampling takes place in our churches.

Solomon, with due respect to you it dosen't matter whether you call me a false prophet or not it is God who appoints and sets forth prophets and I am his.

He has opend a door that no man can shut!

off-line for real

Charlie Fox said...

solomon,

Trust me when I tell you that you are WAY OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE, when debating with 25+yrs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

solomon said...

25+years,

The facts will speak for themselves.

No one loved Dr. Rogers more than me. One of my most prized possessions is a picture of Brother Adrian and my family at the dedication of my only son, who is with Dr. Rogers in heaven right now.

To the Rogers family I would simply say that Brother Adrian's reputation is more than able to defend itself. Also,

All the loneliness, angers, hatreds, envies, and ithchings that this world contains, if rolled into one single experience and put into the scale against the least moment of joy that is felt in Heaven, would have no weight that could be registered at all.
C.S. Lewis

solomon said...

Charlie,

Then bear with me as I try.

Keith

Charlie Fox said...

solomon said...
Charlie,

Then bear with me as I try.

Keith

REPLY:

Brother, TRUST ME, you don't stand a chance. I know what I am talking about.

solomon said...

Charlie,

The victory is the Lord's. Me and 25+years are on the same side, and earnest debate will bear that out.

There is no winner or loser. Only winners, by His grace.

25+yrs@BBC said...

Solomon,

I love you as a brother in Christ. I hope that you know that.

Some did love Dr. Rogers more than you did. His family did. That's why I rebuked WH.

If that makes me spiritually proud, then so be it. God knows my heart as He does yours.

Galations 1:10

Charlie Fox said...

solomon said...
Charlie,

The victory is the Lord's. Me and 25+years are on the same side, and earnest debate will bear that out.

There is no winner or loser. Only winners, by His grace.

REPLY:
Brother, I'm trying to gently tell you that you aren't adequately equipped to debate 25+yrs.

sickofthelies said...

Let's see, where to start tonight:

1) Why is the Question:

You are a sick puppy. I think you need anti depressants. Please go and see a psychiatrist soon. You are bitter, hateful and full of anger.

2) WatchingHistory:

refer to #1 above

25+yrs@BBC said...

Don't worry Charlie,

I don't debate brothers in Christ. Fellowship... yes. Discussion... sure. Debate? Life is far too short.

jmo

Charlie Fox said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Charlie Fox said...

It appears that this thread has been DETROLLED!!!

junk99mail said...

Why is the question? said...
That is a BOLD FACED LIE from the pit of hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that anything like a bare-faced lie? And are you sure it is from the pit of hell, and maybe not just a suburb? I wouldn't know...I'm not an expert on that neighborhood.

Charlie Fox said...

25+yrs@BBC said...
Don't worry Charlie,

I don't debate brothers in Christ. Fellowship... yes. Discussion... sure. Debate? Life is far too short.

jmo

REPLY:

I understand completely.

solomon said...

25+,

I recognize you as a brother in Christ.

I've also seen enough of WHS's posts to understand that he also knows the Lord.

Rebuking is one thing that the living, active word of God is useful for, as well as teaching, correcting, and training in righteousness.

I don't question that WHS had an experience, but I do have to question its source. If it was not from God, then I'm sure WHS would want to be the first to know.

If he is deliberately making it up, then a rebuke is in order. If it is the result of a demonic influence, then may the Lord rebuke those powers. However, if he has misunderstood something else, then correcting and training in righteousness are in order.

solomon said...

junk,

I think that should be bold faced lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charlie Fox said...

junk,

WITQ has been DETROLLED.

Byebelle said...

Ok, couldn't pass up this one. WH has this wild vision about God being angry with AR. Then the snake vision...could that be SG?
Just asking??? I mean if you want everyone to believe that God was so angry with AR (and He just had to share that anger with only you)
then can't we assume that perhaps the snake was SG? Sounds reasonable to me...but, then again, I am one of the "weak" ones.
If it wasn't so scary and weird, it would actually be funny...it's not!

socwork said...

I really hesitate to drag this out any further, but just for the record...

All "visions" aside, what part of "a demon-like voice came out of my mouth" sounds like it even remotely came from God?

junk99mail said...

watchinghisstory said...
Will you and I also stand before the same God one day? Will we also have to give account for the works we have done while on earth?

Yes and yes.

...and also said ...
He has opend a door that no man can shut!

Maybe ... but I know a woman called NASS who can ... and I wish she would! :)

Charlie Fox said...

Only 3 more days till the FULL MOON.

sickofthelies said...

Charlie,

I think we'll be hearing howling coming from Collierville.

New BBC Open Forum said...

mom4 wrote:

"Their behavior was described as a disgusting display of vile agression spewing forth with hateful looks and unholy comments."

I addressed this earlier, but I do want to clarify that if someone did indeed describe the situation in those terms, it was an exaggeration. The "hateful" look (singular), described as a cocky smirk, came from Mr. Dodds at the very end as he was said to have turned around in his seat to stare at those sitting behind him, and the ugly comment (singular) came from Julie Rosenberger, again at the very end. Other than her daughter turning and staring at those behind them a few times, the Dodds family was said to have pretty much ignored those sitting around them. I would not describe any of this as "vile aggression" or "spewing." It was smug, tacky, un-Christlike behavior -- nothing more.

New BBC Open Forum said...

charlie fox wrote:

"Only 3 more days till the FULL MOON."

Lord help us!

sickofthelies said...

Junk,

Nass isn't a woman, NASS is a man, who was a member of BBC about 15 years ago, who has since moved to Minnesota.

junk99mail said...

solomon said...
junk,
I think that should be bold faced lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That's one of those never-ending debates ... is it bold-faced or bald-faced? The British say bare-faced, which lends weight to bald-faced being the correct term ... but some linguists say it is a reference to bold-faced type font.

I doubt that the issue will never be resolved this side of heaven. And in heaven we most likely won't care. Meanwhile, it raises the blood presure of many as they discuss the mertis of their favorite view. Much like how people feel strongly about which way toilet paper is supposed to hang ... over the top of the roll or straight down. Personally, I think hanging it straight down is from the general vicinity of hell, if not the actual pit.

junk99mail said...

sickofthelies said...
Junk,
Nass isn't a woman, NASS is a man, who was a member of BBC about 15 years ago, who has since moved to Minnesota.


Oh, yeah, I forgot. I guess there's nothing he can do about whs then.

bepatient said...

My take on the Business Meeting-

The tension in the room was palpable- esp. in my neck of the woods and people were not behaving in a calm and peaceful manner.

I know that the actions of some around me caused me to give in to my desire to be petty and vote for the meeting to be adjourned solely for the purpose of knowing how angry it would make them.

That meeting was going downhill fast and the reason was not the motions that caused the problem- it was the negative spirit that so many walked into that sanctuary with.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Ah, the "old" junkster is back tonight. Welcome back!

"Personally, I think hanging it straight down is from the general vicinity of hell, if not the actual pit."

Amen, junk, amen! Hmmm... that's a good idea for a poll. Don't hold your breath waiting for it, but it is a good idea!

sickofthelies said...

be patient said:

I know that the actions of some around me caused me to give in to my desire to be petty and vote for the meeting to be adjourned solely for the purpose of knowing how angry it would make them.

SOTL says:

Petty? I would call that SHALLOW..so you cared more about making the people around you angry than you cared about the sexual purity of ministers.

Real mature...and THEY say the weak ones have left the church.

Yeah, right.

Dr. Bill Loney said...

HEY!!!

Watching History--This blog already has a semi-resident with questionable sanity, so BACK OFF!!.

As for dreams, I once dreamed that me and the Fonz took a road trip in the Squire, and all he had to do to turn the 8-track on was bump his fist on the dash.

Was it nothing more than a pickled mackeral smoothie induced epdisode?

CORRECT-O-MUNDO!!

William T. Loney, MD

ps...Solomon, didn't you once call me a... Hugh Jazz?

concernedSBCer said...

Be Patient: Isn't that interesting.....I watched the video and I commented on how everyone was openly trying to be so nice....guess I couldn't see your area, and I'm sure you weren't biased or anything.

New BBC Open Forum said...

bepatient,

We must have been sitting in different areas of the auditorium because I never witnessed the type of behavior you describe.

Or it could just be "a BOLD FACED LIE from the pit of hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Yeah, that's it!

bepatient said...

SOTL,

Call it petty, call it shallow- I don't think it is any worse than the things I have seen you say on here. At least I am willing to admit some of the things I do are wrong.

And giving in to a moment of weakness does not make someone a weak Christian- I don't know a single Christian who doesn't do that on occasion.

So were those people who were being so disruptive weak christians? there were certainly giving in to their flesh....

New BBC Open Forum said...

Good evening, doc! Welcome back. Where did you stop for the night?

sickofthelies said...

I did not see ONE person being disruptive.

NOT ONE SINGLE person.

We were pretty much alone in our section as we stood to vote.

However, I am proud that I stood for truth, even if i had to stand along.

I do not follow the crowd.

But then again, I'm not, umm,

SHALLOW.

junk99mail said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
Ah, the "old" junkster is back tonight. Welcome back!

Same ole me ... guess I have been being a bit too serious lately ... I'll try to be "watching" that!

bepatient said...

NASS and concerned,

There are some folks on this blog that I know you trust that should be able to verify this info if they so choose....

concernedSBCer said...

Junk: *groan" a pun is the lowest form of humor you know......

concernedSBCer said...

Nass: Be sure and let me know what you find out.............

sickofthelies said...

Don't ya'll know that Jerry And Adrian are having a big time tonight?

concerned said...

THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT.
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughter shall prophesy, your old men shall dream drams, your young men shall see visions;

Acts 2:17 Aand it shall come to pass in the last days , saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh; an your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young mem shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

These verses are referring to Isreal in the last days.

Anyone want to jump in on these verses?

bepatient said...

SOTL, are you sure you want to stand by that statement?


Also, for people who say that they don't want to argue and think "we" should all just be ignored sure are quick to jump on in and get going.


You guys can keep on pretending that your actions haven't had any negative impact on the way things have progressed. But that won't make it true.

Dr. Bill Loney said...

Nass,

In case you didn't read my update last night, I've opened up "Cowboy Bill's" medical center/tin can depository at an abandoned Dairy Queen here in Corsicana, Tx. I am bedding down in the walk in freezer.

My medical reputation is spreading like a wildfire through an old wig factory...cankle reductions are a booming business here!! I figure 7 or 8 more cankles, and Mexico City here I come!!

The locals (mostly Latinos) have given me an endearing nickname..."Dr. El Diablo". I think it means 'great doctor' or 'best doctor' or something like that. Anyway, gotta run...I have a late night chicken fight...and I'm favored in this bout!!

WTL, MD

concernedSBCer said...

Concerned: I agree.

New BBC Open Forum said...

bepatient,

What's the matter? Don't have anything to rehash over on the Bratton Blob tonight?

Seriously, I didn't say it didn't happen, and if it did, it was inexcusable. Bad behavior from either side would have been unacceptable. I personally witnessed some bad behavior from the "premature adjournment" group near the end of the meeting and afterwards, but I can only report what I saw (as SOTL only can as well).

I would welcome further clarification and verification of what you witnessed. My e-mail address is in my profile.

socwork said...

Dr. El Diablo,

Congratulations on your new uh... title.

Do you take referrals?

;)

allofgrace said...

You guys can keep on pretending that your actions haven't had any negative impact on the way things have progressed. But that won't make it true.

Get real. You know as well as anyone than it doesn't matter what anyone does, says, or how they do or say it...this administration will ignore it. The "tension" you felt must have been coming from your own thoughts. Everything was conducted in a civil manner and you know it. "Progression" is laughable. The only thing keeping anything from "progressing" is the leadership...plain and simple.

Dr. Bill Loney said...

Almost forgot:

While I haven't been beaten unmercifully by law enforcement or by any member of the general public since my arrival here(but trust me, it's coming), there was one incident that happened a couple of days ago.

While out for my morning jog (shirtless, of course), I was accosted by a couple of street thugs, who demanded that I hand over my fur coat to them...but they ran away screaming when they realized I wasn't wearing one.

O' Loney genetics, thou art a blessing indeed.

WTL, MD

bepatient said...

The "tension" was real enough for someone to call security and I was not the only one that witnessed it- so unless they can all see inside my head I don't think I thought it up.

And I apologize for giving in and posting. I told myself I wouldn't do it, I just want to get back on with the business of living my life and serving the Lord. But, call me shallow or whatever you will, sometimes my compulsions get the best of me... but at least I am trying to control them... all I can do is try to do better day by day.

bepatient said...

NASS,

you have email.


--offline---

New BBC Open Forum said...

This might be fun.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Dr. Loney wrote:

"While out for my morning jog (shirtless, of course), I was accosted by a couple of street thugs, who demanded that I hand over my fur coat to them...but they ran away screaming when they realized I wasn't wearing one."

Hey, that's not fair! Someone said we desire people wear mink coats at BBC. Unfortunately, I can't afford one, but you're telling us that by some fateful genetic quirk, you grew a built-in one? It's not fair, Dr. Loney, it's not fair!

Word of advice: I wouldn't stick around for summer in Corsicana without a good razor (or lawnmower) on hand.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Word is that a BBC member called the church office last week and asked David Coombs if there would be any correction made regarding the marathon results. DC told him that there would be a statement of correction made this past Sunday, either verbally by the senior pastor or in writing (in the bulletin) or both. I must have missed that.

solomon said...

Dr. Loney said...

ps...Solomon, didn't you once call me a... Hugh Jazz?


Doc,

I did say I thought you were acting a little like Hubert, but that was before I got to know you.

My bad!

WatchingHISstory said...

concerned

I'll jump in on these verses.

In my Bible I have before me it says in Acts 2: "A distinction must be observed between the 'last days' when the prediction relates to Israel, and the 'last days' when the prediction relates to the church."

Maybe 25 can better explain this verse in the Bible.

Charlie Fox said...

OK, I've gotta comment on the TISSUE ISSUE.

OVER THE TOP ROCKS!!!!!!!!

Thank you very much.

WatchingHISstory said...

25 said:

Some did love Dr. Rogers more than you did. His family did. That's why I rebuked WH.

Did you find it difficult to rebuke me? Did you struggle with your fear that I "could"
be a prophet of God and that in error you might be rebuking God's prophet?

Or without reluctance you just jumped right in there with a rebuke because like everyone else on this blog you "KNOW" I am delusional and though you respectfully called me "brother"
You easily determine I am delusionaL.

I receive your rebuke with respect because he who receives rebukes receives correction and thus life for them that sin not unto death.

None of us are above being rebuked, agreed? We are all unrighteous and sin daily, agreed? So we all should be rebuked and gladly receive it, agreed?

concernedSBCer said...

Charlie: Is there any other way????

Connie said...

I sure would like to know if those of you who are trying to stop the lying and conniving at your church are aware of the big picture regarding how Systems Theory and Deming- and Drucker-type manipulation has been installed in church organizations.
I've been plowing through these blogs and it's not easy or quick but I'm frustrated thinking you don't have the background info. to realize what's being done to you.

concernedSBCer said...

Connie: Can you explain, please?

solomon said...

I sure would like to know if those of you who are trying to stop the lying and conniving at your church are aware of the big picture regarding how Systems Theory and Deming- and Drucker-type manipulation has been installed in church organizations.

We've heard enough PDL conspiracies to last a lifetime, thank you.

BTW, you'll need to make your profile visible to continue posting here.

Charlie Fox said...

concernedSBCer said...
Charlie: Is there any other way????

REPLY:

No sir!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

whs,

Take it elsewhere. You're done here. I've been more than patient, giving you the forum to tell your story. You did, it's been discussed, and it's over. You're certainly free to pursue this privately with those who are interested, but we are not going to discuss your "visions," your criticism of Dr. Rogers, etc. on this blog any further. That's not what this blog is for.

Thank you and please cease. Any future comments from you or anyone else regarding these subjects will be deleted.

NBBCOF

concernedSBCer said...

Nass: You've got mail.

Charlie Fox said...

THANK YOU, NASS!!!!!!!!

New BBC Open Forum said...

connie,

1. Make your profile visible, or your comment(s) will be deleted.

2. If you look back through the archives you'll see several threads where this sort of thing was discussed. Basically what you're talking about is the "boiling a frog" theory, and sadly, it's been alive and well in this and other churches for some time.

Steve Gaines' mistake was turning the flame up too high too quickly, and some of the frogs noticed. Many of them have jumped or are about to jump out of the pan. The rest are already too cooked to notice (or care).

Dinner, anyone?

WatchingHISstory said...

I respect your wishes however I would like to finish the dialogue with 25 on this blog and I beg your indulgence.

I will continue to respond occasionally for your perusal and know that you will block me.

God is using me to take this to a personal level with many people and I am meeting so much favorable respose from some surprising individuals. So you will continue to hear from me know that I love you and you are doing a great service in that basement. Beware of over exposure to damp basements. Come out for air!

bin wonderin x2 said...

IF you missed Dr. AR on LWF today you owe it to yourself to give it a listen!

Click on the "listen online" button on the right hand side under the Champions of the Faith banner.

Have a great day.

Today's verse - which has nothing to do with the LWF program - is...

John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

New BBC Open Forum said...

whs,

As I said, you are certainly welcome to discuss this further with 25+ or anyone else OFFLINE but not here! Please don't try to force this issue because you will not win.

NBBCOF

New BBC Open Forum said...

whs,

Let me make a suggestion. Just like everyone else who's ever registered and posted here, you were required to set up your own blog. Yours is called "WatchingHisstory" and can be accessed from your profile page.

Why not write your thoughts there and continue the discussion over there? That way, those who are interested can pursue the subject with you further, leaving the rest of us to discuss other matters.

Otherwise, if you continue to post on these subjects here, yours and responding posts will be deleted. This is not open for debate.

imaresistor said...

NBBCOF,

Just 'emerging' (no pun intended) from lurkin' to tell you that I dearly LOVE this cartoon! Wow...how fitting! ROFL!!!

Ima

New BBC Open Forum said...

connie wrote:

"I sure would like to know if those of you who are trying to stop the lying and conniving at your church are aware of the big picture regarding how Systems Theory and Deming- and Drucker-type manipulation has been installed in church organizations.

"I've been plowing through these blogs and it's not easy or quick but I'm frustrated thinking you don't have the background info. to realize what's being done to you."


So now that the heat's been turned up, what do you suggest we do? Understanding what's happening (or has happened) and changing it are two different things. I understand (more or less) why the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, but there's nothing I can do about it! (I've noticed that when I've peeked out my basement windows.)

Sadly, I fear the process in many cases is nearly complete.

P.S. Make your profile visible, please!

New BBC Open Forum said...

ima,

That cartoon is older than dirt, but it still makes me laugh. It's just been colorized and digitized for this generation.

Larry said...

NASS....
Too bad there is no 'spam' filter for this. A few posters I would auto filter and send to the spam dungeon! Even WHS.....

New BBC Open Forum said...

Larry wrote:

"Too bad there is no 'spam' filter for this. A few posters I would auto filter and send to the spam dungeon!"

So true, Larry, so true.

Now, please make your profile visible, or your comments will be sent to the "spam dungeon," too!

Thanks,

NBBCOF

sickofthelies said...

NASS wrote:

I've noticed that when I've peeked out my basement windows.)


Wow, the sun actually shines in Minnesota? I thought the weather was just cold and snowy all the time.

New BBC Open Forum said...

SOTL,

Spring came early this year in Minnesota after Punxsutawney Phil didn't see his shadow on February 2nd. And what a glorious spring it is! How's the weather in Memphis?

New BBC Open Forum said...

As seen on the front page of the Commercial Appeal today.

imaresistor said...

NBBCOF...

Let us see now nbbcf...how exactly was it that the movie, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" ended? That might give us a clue? Maybe...maybe not.

Actually, I think in the 'twinkling of an eye' might ring true in this instance?

Ima :)

Piglet said...

25+ said

So far as your acusation that I have posted here in a spirit of pride. I knew Dr. Rogers personally. I loved him a a brother and mentor in the Lord. I have spoken to his family about WH and know how they feel about his posting.

What I have posted was for the purpose of keeping WH's "vision" in perspective. It should have never been allowed on this blog.

I wrote earlier that it was a shame to relate it and that it would be a shame to allow it to stay.

Piglet says:

I have wondered if they had seen this "boloney" (no offense, WT).

I hope they are doing like me and scrolling on by.....

Piglet said...

Ima said:

Let us see now nbbcf...how exactly was it that the movie, "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" ended? That might give us a clue? Maybe...maybe not.

Actually, I think in the 'twinkling of an eye' might ring true in this instance?

Piglet says:

LOL! Or how did the Stepford Wives end?

NASS - loved the cartoon, too. Was it the Far Side? We have the entire set in paperback! Hilarious!!

Karen said...

From an email I received:

Ezekiel:

The scripture he is looking for is found in First Thessalonians 4: 13-l8. The word rapture does not appear in the Bible, ut the concept is there.

imaresistor said...

Piglet...

If we couldn't laugh about it every so often, wouldn't we be in pitiful shape? Even the Bible tells us that! Laughter doeth the heart good like a medicine. (hope thats right...didn't look it up?)

Ima

solomon said...

The word rapture does not appear in the Bible, but the concept is there.

karen,

If you're interested, and you need any help dozing off for an afternoon nap, I made an attempt to explain my view of the rapture to ezekiel at the end of the previous thread.

KS

New BBC Open Forum said...

ima wrote:

"Actually, I think in the 'twinkling of an eye' might ring true in this instance?"

No one knows the day or the hour!

piglet wrote:

"NASS - loved the cartoon, too. Was it the Far Side? We have the entire set in paperback! Hilarious!!"

I doubt it. I had a copy of that identical cartoon (the B&W version) back in the mid '70s, so it probably predated TFS. Lord, I'm old!

25+yrs@BBC said...

WH wrote:

"Did you find it difficult to rebuke me? Did you struggle with your fear that I "could"
be a prophet of God and that in error you might be rebuking God's prophet?"

Response: No and no.


WH wrote:

"I receive your rebuke with respect because he who receives rebukes receives correction and thus life for them that sin not unto death."

Response:
Amen.

WH wrote:

"None of us are above being rebuked, agreed? We are all unrighteous and sin daily, agreed? So we all should be rebuked and gladly receive it, agreed?"

Response:

Agreed. I hope that you are able to find someone who can truly help you. That is how I have been praying and I believe others have been joining with me in prayer for the same. If you would like to discuss this with me further, NASS has my Yahoo email address.

New BBC Open Forum said...

piglet wrote:

"Or how did the Stepford Wives end?"

Uh, which one? As I recall, at the end of the original they were blissfully and cluelessly living in La La Land. Seems things got a bit nasty in the sequels though. Boy, it's been so long! I don't remember.

That "Men's Association" thing they had sure sounds familiar these days, doesn't it?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Thank you, 25+. Glad to see your willingness to continue the discussion... elsewhere.

imaresistor said...

Forgive me for changing the topic, but I continue to research Lifeway Resources and continue to be nauseous over the results of my research. I pray that some of you will look into this and the SBC as well. There is no doubt this heresy which has crept in Lifeway contributes greatly into what is happening to our churches...both baptist, and non-baptist. It is like a viral infection that continues to spread....on and on and on. As an example, please read this link I am providing. I have checked this out and find it to be credible. I am of the opinion that we need to boycott Lifeway Resources until they take all this deception out of their Christian bookstores. Then there is the issue of Rupert Murdoch, Rick Warren's publisher and contributor; he is a publisher of pornography...pure filth, and Lifeway is full of books/Bibles published by Zondervan, also owned and published by Murdoch. Warren says he is Murdoch's pastor? My Bible says he is to discipline Murdoch. Why doesn't he? I am very serious when I say we, as Christian people, need to boycott Lifeway. We cannot, in good conscious, continue to support those who are bringing shame to our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Please read this

25+yrs@BBC said...

WITQ,

This blog should not exist.

However, the blog exists--like it or not--because the scriptural forum has been hijacked.

The blog exists because of Communications committees and the avoidance of MT. 18.

If you don't like it, please encourage the leadership at BBC to follow scripture and deal with the many accusations that have been leveled--by far more witnesses than required by the Word of God.

You are correct. What has been done in secret--on both sides of the matter--will be shouted from rooftops before Christ's Bema.

Mt. 18 here or Mt. 18 there... The audience will be quite a bit larger there. Here would be far better, even though it might be costly to some... Peace is worth it. Truth is worth it. It will happen anyway. It's just a matter of time.

jmo.

MOM4 said...

nass,
I am removing my post from 5/15 4:14 based on the corrections you made in your post about the Dodd family's actions during the business meeting. If you say that Mr and Mrs Dodds did nothing other than the dirty looks by Mr Dodds, then I have my information wrong and I will remove my post unless someone has additional information regarding the event.
Thanks for your correction!

Charlie Fox said...

NASS<

Time to DETROLL!!!!!

Piglet said...

WITQ

This is our ongoing business meeting. This one may never end until the one we need to have actually happens. Why don't you work on that for us? :)

Piglet said...

(piggy out to lunch)

Proverbs 12:22 said...

Whyisthequestion,

You want to hold everyone on this blog accountable, yet you are unwilling to hold the BBC leadership accountable. Also, if everyone on the blog is so wrong and so lost, shouldn't we be Steve's mission field? Shouldn't he be doing anything and everything within his power to reach us for the Lord? Instead, he does not have time for us. He is not even willing to listen to the concerns of his church members. He is a spiritual fraud and so are you. Neither of you have concern for Scripture, only your own power.


Finally, if memory serves, both Hisserpent and 4545 were banned. Changing your name does not mean you are allowed to post again.

Vamoose!

imaresistor said...

Ahhh, but you don't understand. Charlie DOES face the real truth! Truth is not something you choose it to be...it is what it is! It never wavers. It never changes...as in, culture doesn't change truth; truth changes culture...as it did 2000 years ago. It has remained steadfast since, for those who believe.

25+yrs@BBC said...

WITQ,

I cannot control others. I will not give an account for them, only for myself. See Gal. 1:10.

This is not my blog. I have posted here on occasion and offered what I hoped would be constructive to both sides on a few occasions.

When you allude to what you say that I have said, then you should quote me and include the date and time of the post.

Your accusations are like a scattergun.

I have on more than one occasion reminded those here that the scripture calls us to "love one another."

You paint with a broad brush many who you don't know as acting entirely under the influence of "self and flesh."

The Lord will be the judge of that, not you.

How many of those who have left Bellevue or who have stopped attending have you called, visited, etc. to try to reach out to those who are hurting?

So far as Dr. Rogers goes, he would have followed the scripture. No Communications Committees, no buffers...

Historically there is an interesting comparison to what has begun to happen with the mega churches.

During the Reformation there were many who wrote and published anonymously for fear of persecution and martyrdom. While the threat today is not on a par with the situation then, the problem is very much on a par with their time.

____________
Martin Luther on Mt. 18-- AD 1520
____________

"The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.
First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.

Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.

Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...

Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.

The second wall is even more tottering and weak: that they end to be considered masters of the Scriptures. . . .

If of our faith is right, 'I believe in the holy Christian church,' the.Pope cannot alone be right; else we must say, 'I believe in the Pope of Rome,' and reduce the Christian Church to one man, which is a devilish and damnable heresy. Besides that, we are all priests, as I have said, and have all one faith, one Gospel, one Sacrament; how then should we not have the power of discerning and judging what is right or wrong in matters of faith? ...

The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . .

If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .

Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.

________

WITQ...

It sounds like Luther believed that his spiritual authority was wrong. It sounds like the attempt at dialog was blocked. I'm sure that they prayed, but he says that they also were compelled by conscience to try to bring about a scriptural forum.

A bandaid isn't going to heal the hurt of BBC.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Detrolling completed for now!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Just a reminder.

Karen said...

WITQ,

Still waiting for you to email me, reveal yourself and let's go to lunch to discuss our differences. If you don't want to eat lunch with me, why not? Would you rather bicker back and forth with me anonymously? That's a real safe feeling, huh?

Solomon,

On the last thread, Ezekiel had said he didn't know the verse regarding rapture. I got an email asking me to post it on the writer's behalf so I did. Thanks for pointing me to the right thread - I should have looked further, but was lazy today.

karen

bin wonderin x2 said...

Things I learned on the blog:

BBC leadership has yet to publicly explain the donation of $25,000 to a church led by a pastor that not only supports abortion, but also supports the homosexual, bisexual and transgender lifestyles. In addition the Pastor also supports ordaining as ministers homosexuals, bisexuals and transgender people. I’ll say that one again. BBC donated money to a church whose pastor says homosexuals, bisexuals and transgender individuals are not only living a Godly lifestyle, but also says they should be ordained. BBC has not officially renounced this decision nor explain what - if any - taken steps have been taken to prevent a repeat. It remains unknown whether additional dollars have gone to churches that also support these policies.

We also know BBC leaders will try to get Presidents of SBC seminaries that unashamedly believe in and preach the Word of God fired.

bin wonderin x2 said...

Things I learned on the Blog:

You can be both an admitted pedophile and hold a paid position at BBC. Only when your story is made public is removal from staff required.

bin wonderin x2 said...

Things I learned on the Blog:

You can be caught red handed on tape refusing to follow Tennessee law and still keep your paid staff position at BBC.

bin wonderin x2 said...

Things I learned on the Blog:

You can earn tens of thousands of dollars fleecing your membership by gouging them on trips to the Holy land.

bin wonderin x2 said...

Things I learned on the Blog:

There is nothing wrong with belittling and mocking your own congregation when speaking out of town. Just be careful not to get caught on tape.

bin wonderin x2 said...

Things I learned on the Blog:

It is okay to book multiple out of town speaking engagements on Wednesday nights and then proceed to lie like a rug to your congregation about why you cannot preach to them on Wednesday nights.

Lynn said...

bin wonderin x2 said...
Things I learned on the Blog:

You can earn tens of thousands of dollars fleecing your membership by gouging them on trips to the Holy land.

2:00 PM, May 16, 2007


binwonderin...don't forget also being too cheap to provide the Career group a bus to go down to Gulf Shores for a weekend retreat!!! Their reason...it would raise the price of the trip from $199 to over $240....despite the fact that people who drive down there will spend that much on gas anyways!

bin wonderin x2 said...

It is preferable to adjourn a business meeting rather than vote to adopt an SBC resolution on sexual purity.

bin wonderin x2 said...

Surely others have learned something on this blog…

bin wonderin x2 said...

Things I learned on the Blog:

Dark lighting and loud music promote not only spiritual maturity among young people but also sexual purity.

bin wonderin x2 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bin wonderin x2 said...

Things I learned on the Blog:

You don't have to join to vote!

sickofthelies said...

WH wrote:

Did you find it difficult to rebuke me? Did you struggle with your fear that I "could"
be a prophet of God and that in error you might be rebuking God's prophet?"


SOTL says:

ROFL!!!!!

WH, you might be just a kook, but this is for certain:

YOU AIN'T NO PROPHET!!!

SHEESH!!!

Why not take up a hobby, say, like fishing...so that you won't have time to sit around and make up wierd stories? Other retirees have found that fishing is a nice hobby..keeps them busy, and they have no need to amuse themselves with kooky ' revelations'.

imaresistor said...

Yes...I have learned that bin wonderin is very observant. A good discerner.

Del said...

OK folks, whats the status of the upcoming illegal BBC "special called meeting?" Any one prepared to raise a point of order and shut the meeting down before any business can be completed. Are there any "great oaks" left to at least try or are we left with fallen acorns to lie on the ground and decay?

Karen said...

del,

In response, I have another question:

Is Mike Spradlin still a member of Bellevue or did he move his membership when he was selected as the Interim Pastor at GBC? I really don't know what the procedure on that is so if you know, please enlighten me.

The reason I'm asking is this: If Mike is no longer a BBC member, how can he be a "delegate" from BBC to the SBC?

AND - one more question: What do the "delegates" do at the SBC? Is it follwing Biblical teaching for a woman to be a "delegate" when the Bible says "women should be quiet in the church". I know women are not to teach men, but is this a teaching postion per se or would a woman just take the vote of BBC to the SBC.

If I've confused you, I apologize. I truly do not know what capacity these "delegates" serve.

Thanks!

karen

Karen said...

Also, Bob Sorrell is on staff at GBC; how can he be a "messenger" (I went and looked @ bellevue.org for the correct word) for BBC.

Who is Dr. Day?

AND! Wouldn't it be interesting to have Dr. Spradlin and Mr. Perdue as "messengers"? Mr. Perdue was removed from the MABTS board after trying to convince a donor to MABTS that they should give their donation elsewhere during the Commercial Appeal misquote brouhaha. Hopefully, Mike and David have patched things up.

karen

Karen said...

binwondering,

I've learned from the blog that fellow Christians can turn on each other in a heartbeat even though they've seemingly gotten along well in the past. Throw a new pastor in the mix and it's a free for all if you don't submit blindly to his authority.

I've learned that Matthew 18 doesn't apply to Steve Gaines and Steve Gaines belives that the requirements for ministry in Timothy and Titus are "guidelines".

I've learned that John Crockett isn't too old to scale a 41" fence. I've also learned that Steve Gaines' inseam is about 41" since he stepped over that fence.

karen

preacherdude777 said...

I don't think it is "illegal" to have a woman represent Bellevue @ SBC, but it is unusual. Normally it is just men doing the representing but the wifes go along.

The way Stevieboy has done it, the church has to pay for the wives to go. Wip out the BBC plastic Stevieboy and charge it up!

Not sure but I think Bob Sorrell & Dr. Spradlin are still members of BBC. They are just interim/helping @GBC.

Not sure what Stevieboy's motives are concerning having Dr. Spradlin go along but I am glad he is going! Maybe Stevieboy thinks he will have some crediblity with other Pastors now that Dr. Spradlin and he are hanging out.

Seem Dr. Spradling will be getting the short end of the stick on that trip.

Karen said...

I have learned from the blog that sometimes you just gotta talk to yourself cause nobody's around! :)

karen

Lynn said...

Ya'll have also learned what a moonbat is :D

Seriously folks, through the blog I have learned that there are some people at Bellevue that do care about one another (like the ones who I have talked to or met).


BTW, Off topic here, but if I can ask for you to keep me in your prayers. I've been in a bit of a depressed state for the last week or so and I pray that I can get back to being my normal self quickly.

preacherdude777 said...

Did you notice the picture of Steve & Dr. Falwell in the Commercial Appeal? Looks like Dr. Falwell didn't want the hear Steves lies either. : )

Been Redeemed said...

Karen,
I think it was John Caldwell that scaled the fence, not John Crockett. AND, the act committed by Dave Perdue against MABTS was illegal and as far as we know, he is not under any kind of investigation by authoritites for it, perhaps they were never notified since he "resigned", but he is still on the LWF board and now he is representing BBC at the SBC as a "delagate" - one that the membership sends to represent them. If the membership votes to send ALL of these people as "representative delagates", the SBC is sunk along with BBC.

preacherdude777 said...

Karen said...
I have learned from the blog that sometimes you just gotta talk to yourself cause nobody's around! :)


Yep....I know how it is...I feel like a Maytag repairman right about now.

concernedSBCer said...

Lynn: I am praying for you but you are welcome to email me anytime to talk. :)

WatchingHISstory said...

nass

I need 25's yahoo e-mail address

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