Thursday, July 09, 2009

Troublemakers in the Church... or How to Throw a Tantrum!



Sunday night's sermon by Steve Gaines was yet another sheep beater. Why is this man so angry? He loudly and angrily implores people to be "peacemakers," but his definition of a "peacemaker" seems to be someone who'll never question "Pastor" or his agenda, no matter how innocently or politely, and never express any sort of disagreement with "God's anointed and appointed authority," namely Steve Gaines. And if you dare question him or hesitate to swallow and follow like a lemming off a cliff, you're automatically labeled a "troublemaker."
Watch him in action.

It seems at least some of the staff is carrying the torch, too. See the June 29th and July 6th "Morning Mullings" articles. As someone who read both articles said, it's amazing how some use (and misuse) the Old Testament to support an agenda. "They write to please their king and because they are taught to think like him, they probably really believe it." Sadly, that's the only explanation I can think of.

216 comments:

1 – 200 of 216   Newer›   Newest»
I Must Needs Go Home said...

The problem isn't troublemakers in the church, it's the GOATS who lead your congregation. You've got GOATS in your pulpit. GOATS in your deacon body. GOATS on staff. Don't be fooled! Just because a man claims Christ that in no way means they are in Christ. I'm not saying they're all GOAT. I'm saying enough of them are that your church is in peril. There are many who can put on a nice outward religious show that satisfies the itching ears of other GOATS, but the Lord isn't fooled by any of these sanctimonous religious shows. America is full of this nonsense. The problem isn't in Washington, it's in our PULPITS.


"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matt 7:15-23)

I'm confident you've got a pack of ravenous wolves running the show at Bellevue.

I Must Needs Go Home said...

Christian Pimps

By Coach Dave Daubenmire
July 9, 2009
NewsWithViews.com


“Christianity started in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an enterprise.” -Sam Pascoe

“An enterprise. That’s a business.” After a few moments Martha, the youngest student in the class, raised her hand. I could not imagine what her question might be. I thought the little vignette was self-explanatory, and that I had performed it brilliantly. Nevertheless, I acknowledged Martha’s raised hand, “Yes, Martha.” She asked such a simple question, “A business? But isn’t it supposed to be a body?” I could not envision where this line of questioning was going, and the only response I could think of was, “Yes.” She continued, “But when a body becomes a business, isn’t that a prostitute?”
as told by David Ryser

I’ve been fighting for a long time the prompting of my inner man to take on this subject. Although I have chewed around the edges like I used to do as a child when I would break off the crust from a hot, home-made apple pie in attempt to appease my hunger without my mother finding out, I never really stuck my thumb into the middle of the pie.

I have been a sellout. A pimp, if you will. Not on purpose. It is easy to justify our lack of courage when confronted with difficult issues. I try to faithfully deliver the mail as the Lord hands it to me, but I have been negligent by eating the crust out of fear of spoiling the pie.

You see, I have pulled my punches. I have softened the blow. I have spanked with a newspaper when they deserved a belt. I have sold out on the Truth. I have not called a spade a spade. I have nibbled at the crust when I should have been hammering the pie. I have taken the be-nice approach and have listened to the “touch not God’s anointed” mentality. I have prostituted the Truth. For that I am sorry.

Oh, my intentions were good. I had hoped that as I exposed the “unfruitful works of darkness” that the churches would eventually awaken and begin to push back against the enemy. After ten years of trying to awaken “The Church” to the problem I have finally mustered the courage to say what I have known all along. “The Church” IS the problem. It has become a pimp, selling the works of “the body” for personal satisfaction. Most of the pulpits are filled by “hirelings” (more on that in a future commentary), men and women who stand in the pulpit without a calling, without an anointing, and without courage. They are man pleasers, living off of “the Body” as they sell it out for their own whims and pleasures. Greedy Dogs, Isaiah called them. Blind watchmen…loving to sleep…leading the flock astray.

continued

I Must Needs Go Home said...

Not all of the churches. If you are a pastor and have read this far then I am probably not talking about you. I have met many courageous men who boldly live out the command to “lead them out.” You know who you are. You are the one’s who have been criticized, belittled, and called names by the “pimp in the pulpit” at the big church downtown.

You see, to him, the church is a business…an enterprise…a social club totally dependant on butts and bucks. It is a place to make business contacts, network with others in the community, and soothe one’s conscience through weekly attendance and philanthropy. It is no different from a whore house where a woman’s body is sold for the pleasure of another. Love-less intercourse is prostitution. Most church goers love the service that Jesus provides (membership has its privileges) but don’t really know the Jesus who provides it.

I’ll be honest. I’ve been afraid to say some of these things for fear of alienating even more pastors. I was afraid that my harshness might alienate those “frozen chosen” pastors and eliminate opportunities to “minister” to their congregations. That’s where I have pimped-out my call. The pastors are not the answer, they are the problem.

Instead of cleaning out Congress perhaps we should start by cleaning out the pulpit. Judgment begins first in the house of God. America is a reflection of the churches and the churches are a reflection of the pulpits. It is time to “throw the bums out”…even if they do hide behind the “touch not my anointed.” When a football team is under-performing who gets the boot? Yep, the coach.

Allow me to be frank as I cut to the chase. Pick up your family and get out of the mausoleum you are attending and find a place that serves the Lord. I couldn’t care less how many generations your family has been a member, how many pews your family has donated, and how many of your friends attend. Sitting on your butt every Sunday is not serving the Lord, it is the Lord serving you. The feel-good Gospel is a fraud. Jesus taught self-sacrifice not self-fulfillment. “Greater love has no man than this than he would lay down his life for his friends….” Love demands sacrifice. What have you sacrificed for your faith? You are engaging in Spiritual welfare…living off of the efforts of others.

Start fighting back by no longer giving them your money. Don’t allow them to hit you over the head with the “bring all of the tithes into the storehouse” hammer without asking yourself some very important questions. What is a storehouse and what is its purpose? What does the Scripture mean by “meat in my house” and who is the meat for? Are there families in your “church” who are losing their homes? Is that not who the “meat in the house” was stored up for or were the storehouse funds used for a new parking lot?

Is the purpose of the tithe (by the way, my wife and I believe in tithing) to pay senior pastors, associate pastors, youth ministers, worship leaders, and secretaries to do “ministry?” Can’t you “tithe” different places? Did the New Testament church teach the concept of “professional” Christians or were the elders of the church also tent-makers? Does “meat in my house” mean bigger buildings, paved parking lots, and padded pews?

continued

I Must Needs Go Home said...

Is your “church” experiencing a budget crunch right now because they have eaten the meat that should have been placed in the storehouse? I know, “let them eat blacktop.”

Is storehouse money supposed to be spent on the already converted or on seeking and saving that which is lost? What percent of your church’s budget go to “missions”…as if that is a separate job…in comparison to utilities, paper, salaries, and operating expenses?

Don’t stop giving, just change where you give. Find a ministry that is using the money to reach out to the community and send your tithe there. Remember, it is the “Lord’s house” into which your finances are to be offered….not some social club to which your tithe is nothing more than monthly dues. It is time you asked yourself if the Spirit still dwells in your church.

My wife and I have spent the last few weeks reading the book of Acts in our morning devotionals. You should do the same. They spread the Gospel around the world at great personal peril and sacrifice. The self-serving American-Church is a pathetic step-child to Christianity’s founding fathers.

Most churches love money, chase money, compromise over money. A pastor in New York was just fired from his $600,000 salary! The national average for pastors is $84,426! No wonder they won’t speak against sin! Why not include those wealthy homosexuals in the congregation!

People have asked me to start a church. I tell them that they are nuts. Truth empties churches, it doesn’t fill them. My friend Flip Benham says guys like me would be the Dr. Kervorkian of church growth. What man of God would want to wipe noses when he could fight evil? No thanks. At least on the streets I can recognize the enemy.

“And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.” Yep, the pimps are the ones wearing the nice clothes. Funny isn’t it? The pimps in the pulpits accuse street preachers of being undignified.

What did Jesus say about the ultimate street preacher John the Baptist? “Verily I say unto you, among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist.”

Lindon said...

“But when a body becomes a business, isn’t that a prostitute?” as told by David Ryser"

Wow. Excellent point. Many OT parallels here concerning wayward Israel.

Lindon said...

AS to goats leading the church, the scripture says that the sheep KNOW My voice and follow Me.

Goats cannot lead sheep. Enough to make one tremble, no?

drstevej said...

The inserts into the video I found to be sophomoric. Why not just let the sermon speak for itself?

This "adaptation" does not give you any high ground spiritually.

-- an observer at a distance with no axe to grind either way.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Okay, "drstevej"...

Here is the raw, uncut version minus the "sophomoric" editing. Enjoy!

Christa Brown said...

I rolled in the floor. I laughed and laughed. I especially loved the judge!

Sometimes if you don't find a way to laugh, you wind up with endless tears... so thanks a bunch for this bit of fun.

ezekiel said...

Can anyone else here see the spirir of

N I C O L A I T A N S?

Why does God HATE the practices of the Nicolaitans?
Who were these mysterious people?

"But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." (Revelation 2:6, KJV)

"But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. " (Revelation 2:6, NIV)

You can read the full article
Nicolaitans


here and I think you should. It is worth the read. It may (it does) explain what is happening at BBC.

Frankly, I had rather hate what God hates than submit to a Nicolaitan. I don't care how you dress it up or how smooth or polished or how much you yell from the pulpit, it doesn't change the Word of God. You can call us rebellious against God ordained authority and continue to hammer that message, beat those sheep. But it is clear that what you must do is REPENT.

Here are some exerpts. See if you think they fit.

"When our Lord Jesus Christ walked among men, He taught His disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, whom He denounced as hypocrites. With them He classed the chief priests and officials of the temple, together with the recognized teachers, (scribes, or "professors" Ferrar Fenton Translation) in the Synagogues. He declared they had so corrupted the truth of God, which they were supposed to preach, with the doctrines and ordinances of men, that the truth, as originally given, was no longer with them. That which these blind leaders of the blind were giving forth as truth of God was making their converts twofold more the children of hell than they were before accepting the [schi]ism by these corrupt teachers."

"Do not allow yourself to become possessed with such a carnal spirit that you want men who belong to the body of Christ to call you "Master."

"Therefore, we have, without the legal Greek construction, the English hyphenated word Nickos-laoston, but which, with its lawful elisions and contractions, becomes the English name: Nicolaitans (Nicolaitanes), the full meaning of which, in its native tongue and in its ecclesiastical setting, is that the bishops and prelates of the Church have gained a triumphal victory or conquest over the laiton -- the laity -- until they have been compelled to submit to the arbitrary dominion of men who have become that thing which God hates - 'Lords over God's heritage':"

Does anything here ring true and sound like what we are seeing?

WishIhadknown said...

So what is happening that Gaines has brought the club out again? What are people "complaining" about now? And what is this with a satelite site in Arlington? Is the field so barren that the Bellevue sheep must now graze in another man's pasture? And the people think this is right? If it was not so sad all of this would be hilarious.

Former FBC Insider said...

Personally, I find your editing skills to be quite ingenious. You are only throwing in what most of us are already thinking.
Clever.
Very clever.
Keep up the good work.
Laughter helps in times of grief.
Otherwise we might go nuts!
Thank you.

fogmachine said...

After listening to about 3 minutes of the "I'm in charge around here" diatribe, I had to turn it off. Do people actually sit in the service and listen to this kind of talk?

I think I know why the new church satelite down the highway 5 miles was launched. It's really nothing more than a way for those who can't stand it any more to be able to slip out the door never to return again.

Pride keeps most that are still around Bellevue from admitting the mistake that was made when Gaines was hired. Instead, staff and members are looking for an alternative way to leave without admitting they can't stand it any longer.

What else could it be? It's a joke to call this a new church plant located within walking distance from Bellevue. You can drive the 5 miles from the Bellevue driveway to this new location in 5 minutes.

If you go to the roof of Bellevue, you can look down I-40 and see the building where this Arlington plant will be. It's not even in Arlington, it's in Lakeland. It may not be a big deal to most people but it's another example of another little lie like the itty bitty fence that Gaines, Chuck Taylor, Mark Daugherty, and John Caldwell trespasssed over.

If Bellevue wanted to plant a church to reach part of the Memphis metro area, why not put one in downtown Memphis, Fayette, Tipton, Desoto, or Critenden County?

Wouldn't that make more sense if your goal was to reach out to the lost?

Bill said...

We all need to remember that we do have brothers and sisters in Christ at B'Vue who are being led astray in the name of God.

Whatever their reasoning (of our Bros and Sisters in Christ), we do need to remember to pray for them, and for those who would abuse our brothers and sisters in Christ (Not only at B'Vue but all over the world), who are heaping the judgement of God upon their own heads.

Although I have not been a member of B'Vue in 20 yrs, it is evident that the flames are engulfing the entire work, and that there are several people there that I still know and love.

May God have mercy on all of our souls.

BTW, to mock this tragedy is a tragedy unto itself.

Bill

Romans 5:1

New BBC Open Forum said...

Bill,

I'm not sure what you mean by "mock," but if you're referring to the use of humor in the videos, I think Christa summed it up best. "Sometimes if you don't find a way to laugh, you wind up with endless tears."

gmommy said...

"Wicked schmicked, I would rather you all come to (XYZ church) in the morning. It will cost a whole lot less and eternally worth a whole lot more!"

This is posted on facebook by a very sincere person to my knowledge. For those who realize problems in the Baptist church go a lot deeper than SG... does anything about this bother you?????
I'm just curious...not wanting to blow anything out of proportion.

New BBC Open Forum said...

gmommy,

Errr... context please.

New BBC Open Forum said...

fogmachine,

If you listened to only 3 minutes of it you didn't hear him really go off. The first 2 1/2 minutes he was just warming up.

gopher said...

If you think the rants against Trouble makers in the church is bad

listen to how Steve Gaines addresses

"Trouble makers in the home"

Are these things that he has heard from others or is this first hand experience?

Richard said...

I preferred the one with the "sophmoric" inserts. It was the only way I could follow what he was saying. In the uncut version, all I heard was "babble babble babble."

New BBC Open Forum said...

In the uncut version, all I heard was "babble babble babble".

It's my gift, Richard... the interpretation of "tongues."

gmommy said...

Context:
It was posted on facebook, bugged me for a lot of reasons , and wondering if others just think it's cool to say that to people or if it bothers them. That's all the context I have.

gmommy said...

I apologize if my question wasn't clear. Never mind anyway. It's OK if no one else thinks we don't need to market eternal life or even church. It just hit me the wrong way. I'm over thinking that church should be a one stop shopping experience. I don't even think the person that wrote that meant it the way it sounded to me. It just bothers me that not much has changed after all many of us have been thru.
I deliberately didn't name the person or church mentioned from facebook because I have no issue with this person or church personally.
I just have a problem with the marketing method...and the hint that enjoying a theater production like Wicked isn't a good thing and doesn't have the reward that going to church does.
I think God gave many beautiful things for us to enjoy in the world. It doesn't all have to be at a church, or approved by the pastor, be on a certain radio station, come from Lifeway, and Kincade's paintings are fine enough but he is not all the rage (in comparison to great artists)that most Christians think he is(IMO).
So since Nass didn't know what I was talking about, I probably wasn't very clear...so sorry :)

gopher said...

When listening to Steve Gaines rant at women in

"Trouble makers in the home"


I missed this one,

When Steve Said don't tell men how to raise children, Let them LEAD in the home

"Steve Raising Kids"


It just came out at the "Southern Baptist Convention"
how Donna had problems with her son Grant while Steve was the Leader in the Home

Donna had to enlist help outside the home to repair the damage:

"Donna Gaines, wife of Steve Gaines, pastor of the Memphis-area Bellevue Baptist Church in Cordova, Tenn.,
shared her identification with Monica, the mother of the great theologian Augustine, who once was a wayward son.


Like Monica, Gaines prayed and enlisted other prayer warriors to plead with God for her son's salvation.
A year and a half later, God broke through ...... (then Grant) openly confessed and repented before the Lord."

Sorta has the ring of the Male Dominance at BBC , such as the PW incident and how wives are to KEEP SILENT....

Former FBC Insider said...

gmommy,

It's refreshing to hear your point of view (from another Christian) who believes every good and perfect gift comes from God.

Thanks for the explanation!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Unedited version of the video is here now. Enhanced version (link on front page) has been edited slightly. A link to all videos has been added to the "Links" section on the front page, and older videos will be added as time permits.

Been Redeemed said...

I find it a bit oxymoronic that Gaines made the Wendi Thomas opinion column in today's commercial appeal after all he did to cover for PW.

BkWormGirl said...

Gmommy - I also have that same person as my FB friend. They had been trying to get tickets all week to see the show down at the Orpheum titled "Wicked" and were unable to get them. I think it was just their light hearted way of saying the play isn't important - but being with other believers is important - and it will cost WAY less to go to church than it would have to see the play. I honestly believe the person was just trying to remind people to focus on what is important. I am not trying to offend or criticize anyone, I just wanted to offer an alternate read to what they had written.

Blessings.

BkWormGirl said...

I feel the idea of troublemakers in the church is getting to be such a distraction from the gospel. Before I say what I am about to say next I want to be clear and say 1.) I am not looking to start a fight and 2) I am not saying the people who have left BBC are necessairly the type of people I am talking about.

Our churches (of all denominations - as NONE have proven to be without problems) must return to the truth of God's word. At least once in every pastor's ministry that pastor will make a mistake. Depending on the mistake there may or may not be need for a full public confession - but there must be evidence of repentance. The same is true for those in the pew. We MUST be living in a way that draws people to the kingdom. If we are not, then the sin is within us.

I do think more so today that ever before there are way too many stupid arguments. I know there are others on this blog who will disagree with me and that is ok - we can disagree without being disagreeable. But I do not think the color of the carpet, whether we have leather couches or fabric, the style of music, or even if some one is daring to raise hands in worship - none of these issues are worth fighting about. God did not create robots and as a result we are all different. I think the petty fights in so many churches are what Satan is using to divide the kingdom of God.

Unfortunatley what I have witnessed in the past few years (especially here in the midsouth - because I live in the midst of it) is that these divisions do not start over the trivial - they start over something significant, usually doctrine. And then the petty things become the focus and in that the argument becomes about the trivial.

Nass - I confess I chuckled a little bit with the creative editing. And I suspect I giggled because like Christa said, if you don't laugh you may start crying and never stop. For me all of the many things that SG has done in the past couple of years all stems from his unrepentant heart. Just yesterday I engaged in a conversation with someone about something that had NOTHING to do with BBC or SG. Yet in the middle of our conversation that became the topic. And as myself and the person I was talking with shared some tears I was reminded that what makes the situation with SG so hurtful is that he mocks the wounded. He is still the same bully he was several years ago. For me, it helps me to keep focused on why SG and others like him are so determintal to the body - because they are like an infection destroying from within. So many have had their faith shaken and damaged by these people who claim to represent God.

My God is a kind and loving God. He draws people to himself. He never mocks and He never criticizes. He loves unconditionally. He heals.

I am not saying that this blog is wrong. In fact I believe as Christians we are supposed to decry the ways of people like SG because his life does not emulate Christ. Because so many stand to protect him there must be someplace that we are able to denounce what he preaches as the false doctrine that it is. However, I would just encourage us to be sure that we do so with clean hands and a clean heart. (And I promise I do not want this to sound as I am trying to scold someone I am not. I just felt the need to verbalize what God has been reminding me of.)

Blessings and peace to all.
bkwg

BkWormGirl said...

Totally unrelated. However still important.

Please remember to pray for the bus load of youth and leaders who were in a pretty bad wreck today. Most recent information I have is that 1 is dead and 23 injured. (There is a report saying 5 dead but the church is not reporting that.) Here is the link to the church web site for the most up to the minute information. http://www.fbcshreveport.org/

gmommy said...

BWG,
Thanks for the background. I know the person is a good guy.... I just see and hear things so differently since all the BBC mess. As my son told me...I have "buttons" all over me.

I FEEL like we (believers)have become so "cheesy" to the world. We have our own "Christian lingo" and it sounds good to those who know the language...but it doesn't impress, compel, or draw others to Christ or to us. I used to think the language was cool. I was comfortable. Now I hear how we seem to trivialize /market/ make God in OUR image...conform Him to our smallness. (I am speaking in general here not about the FB thing) I agree that God didn't make us robots and we are all individuals and created...creatively :)so church and worship doesn't have to be a one size fits all. I'm still sifting thru years of brain matter deciding what I will keep and what has to be thrown out. What is real and honoring to God and what is the man pleasing game I learned to play. It's a hard place to be.

Cakes isn't a great example because he grew up in church and knew the language... but how many times was he "attacked" by some well meaning and some not so well meaning "Christians" saying our little EE scripts or damning him to hell for being honest about himself. He gave US grace in his response. He behaved more lovingly many times. He wasn't afraid to stand with us in support during the PW trauma. He didn't mind coming over to our church and homes to fellow ship with us.
I think I am agreeing with your main point.We need to be real and not just wind up toys and robots that speak a language that only church people even understand.

I don't think the color of the carpet,leather or fabric,(yes,we have discussed the style of music),or hand raising was an issue for most of us...and you were probably speaking in general about those things anyway.
I'll be quiet now...I ramble and I'm never sure if I follow thru enough on a thought for it to be understood...except in my mind.
Again...thanks for explaining where the FB thought came from.

Junkster said...

BkWormGirl,
Well said (6:28 PM).

BkWormGirl said...

Gmommy

AMEN!!!!! I couldn't agree more.

And yes, like you mentioned I was speaking in very general terms. And speaking about what I am seeing in "the church" as a whole all over the place. I too am doing the sorting through thing. I have decided that while I am not "anti-denominational" I certainly am more about following in the footsteps of my Savior and Redeemer than in any church convention.

New BBC Open Forum said...

It's official. This morning Jamie Parker accepted a call to be minister of music at FBC Dyersburg.

gopher said...

Goodbye Jamie Parker

Hello


"Ray "


"Mark Blair"


"Ryan Wingo"

gopher said...

"Heres Steve Gaines loving on Jamie Parker "

gmommy said...

Hey,
Is "Ray" really Ray?? He reminds me of Greg Parchment???? Am I confused???

gopher said...

thought I heard "Ray",


it is
"Greg Parchment"

gmommy said...

Sorry Gopher....I didn't see his name at the top of the video. I remember when he first began to sing when Jim was there. He was a bit more "dramatic" than Jim liked us to be. He was a little uncomfortable to watch sometimes. So he is going to be more than just a soloist??
Interesting.
What was Ryan Wingo jumping around about??? VBS???
Does anyone know if BBC is going to help JP with his house note until it sells??? It's not easy to sell a house that size in any market much less this one.

ezekiel said...

I wonder what Nehemiah would say?

Seems he had a similar problem with the rulers and nobles as we do at BBC. They are acting the same way are they not?


This is Matthew Henry's commentary on Neh 5:6-13

"III. He rebuked the nobles and rulers, who were the monied men, and whose power perhaps made them the more bold to oppress. Note, Even nobles and rulers, if they do that which is evil, ought to be told of it by proper persons. Let no man imagine that his dignity sets him above reproof.
IV. He set a great assembly against them. He called the people together to be witnesses of what he said, and to bear their testimony (which the people will generally be forward to do) against the oppressions and extortions their rulers were guilty of, Neh_5:12. Ezra and Nehemiah were both of them very wise, good, useful men, yet, in cases not unlike, there was a great deal of difference between their management: when Ezra was told of the sin of the rulers in marrying strange wives he rent his clothes, and wept, and prayed, and was hardly persuaded to attempt a reformation, fearing it to be impracticable, for he was a man of a mild tender spirit; when Nehemiah was told of as bad a thing he kindled immediately, reproached the delinquents, incensed the people against them, and never rested till, by all the rough methods he could use, he forced them to reform; for he was a man of a hot and eager spirit. Note, 1. Very holy men may differ much from each other in their natural temper and in other things that result from it. 2. God's work may be done, well done, and successfully, and yet different methods taken in the doing of it, which is a good reason why we should neither arraign the management of others nor make our own a standard. There are diversities of operation, but the same Spirit.

ezekiel said...

Matthew Henry's commentary continued.

V. He fairly reasoned the case with them, and showed them the evil of what they did. The regular way of reforming men's lives is to endeavour, in the first place, to convince their consciences. Several things he offered to their consideration, which are so pertinent and just that it appeared he had consulted with himself. He lays it before them, 1. That those whom they oppressed were their brethren: You exact every one of his brother. It was bad enough to oppress strangers, but much worse to oppress their poor brethren, from whom the divine law did not allow them to take any usury, Deu_23:19, Deu_23:20. 2. That they were but lately redeemed out of the hand of the heathen. The body of the people were so by the wonderful providence of God; some particular persons among them were so, who, besides their share in the general captivity, were in servitude to heathen masters, and ransomed at the charge of Nehemiah and other pious and well-disposed persons. “Now,” says he, “have we taken all this pains to get their liberty out of the hands of the heathen, and shall their own rulers enslave them? What an absurd thing is this! Must we be at the same trouble and expense to redeem them from you as we were to redeem them from Babylon?” Neh_5:8. Those whom God by his grace has made free ought not to be again brought under a yoke of bondage, Gal_5:1; 1Co_7:23. 3. That it was a great sin thus to oppress the poor (Neh_5:9): “It is not good that you do; though you get money by it, you contract guilt by it, and ought you not to walk in the fear of God? Certainly you ought, for you profess religion, and relation to him; and, if you do walk in the fear of God, you will not be either covetous of worldly gain or cruel towards your brethren.” Those that walk in the fear of God will not dare to do a wicked thing, Job_31:13, Job_31:14, Job_31:23. 4. That it was a great scandal, and a reproach to their profession. “Consider the reproach of the heathen our enemies, enemies to us, to our God, and to our holy religion. They will be glad of any occasion to speak against us, and this will give them great occasion; they will say, These Jews, that profess so much devotion to God, see how barbarous they are one to another.” Note, (1.) All that profess religion should be very careful that they do nothing to expose themselves to the reproach of those that are without, lest religion be wounded through their sides. (2.) Nothing exposes religion more to the reproach of its enemies than the worldliness and hard-heartedness of the professors of it. 5. That he himself had set them a better example (Neh_5:10), which he enlarges upon afterwards, Neh_5:14, etc. Those that rigorously insist upon their right themselves will with a very ill grace persuade others to recede from theirs."

Sound familiar?

All For HIM said...

I have been out of town the last several days. Was an announcement made at BBC on Jamie yesterday? When will he be gone? What's this about Ray? Lots of questions...seeking answers. ;-)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Here is the video of Steve's announcement at the end of last night's service about Jamie Parker. My apologies for the color. Temporary technical difficulties caused SG to look like Shrek.

Former FBC Insider said...

Why does SG look like he's going to be sick? (Not the green color, the sour puss.)

All For HIM said...

Whoa!! Watching that video, it seems by Jamie's demeanor that he is thoroughly relieved to be leaving. I can only imagine what he's gone through these past few months. I can't say that I agree with some of choices on music and song selection, but I pray that he has a very successful ministry at FBC Dyersburg. Maybe he and his family can get some healing after the BBC/Steve Gaines experience. Was last night considered his final service? Any appreciation event planned? Also, who is Ray?? (The one on the video with the electric guitar)??

MOM4 said...

"Ray" has been id'd as Greg Parchment, I think. He is the one that looks like one of the Beach Boys (as they look now, not back then). I would think he would take that as a compliment.

gmommy said...

I don't think Jamie looks relieved. I thought it looked difficult for him to sing that song. I'm glad they didn't but had they put the camera on Dana I think we would have seen more.
The video said that JP will be there a few more weeks and they will have a send off for him. That has to be so uncomfortable for Jamie and Dana. To behave as tho they weren't pushed out. Why do they have to be treated that way?? So the majority that aren't paying attention won't think about how and why he is leaving????? We saw back when they had the kids dance that Jamie was going to be the scape goat for some of SG's PR problems.
"Ray" was a mistake...the guy is Greg Parchment. I'm still trying to figure out what role he is playing in the music staff????

All For HIM said...

Is "Ray" supposed to become a permanent fixture at BBC? What's the deal on that?

All For HIM said...

"gmommy", I went back and looked at the video of Steve's announcement about Jamie again, and with that second look, I must say that I was mistaken with my first impression of it. When Steve called him up to the platform and grabbed his hand it almost looked as if Jamie was trying to get away. As he began to lead the congregation in Sweet, Sweet Spirit, his eyes and face did tell it all. In his face I saw pain and hurt. In his face, I saw regret and almost a look of failure. He had to have been thinking of the days when the Sanctuary ran over with people and all the mighty works that God had done there. And, possibly, longing for a long past day when Adrian Rogers and Jim Whitmire were used there mightily of God, even though he might not have realized it at the time. Sometimes it truly hurts to know the full truth, but I'm sure he can say that the truth will set you free even if freedom has a big price.

MOM4 said...

"Ray" was a mistake...the guy is Greg Parchment. I'm still trying to figure out what role he is playing in the music staff????

"Brian"

gopher said...

This is the non green version

"Good bye Jamie "

though the green version fits Steve Gaines much better = envy of a Beautiful Voice

just like he Envied "Thaddus Matthew's Voice "

He even told the cameramen to focus on Jamie, not me...

Anyone understand what Steve said at the end during the Blue Screen?

Steve had to ask Jamie if he would still be here for a few weeks..?? What???
Steve is the Leader , the one in charge, he knows everything!!

Miranda said...

gmommy,
The green version is the Wicked version of SG & Co.
Fancy that?!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Miranda,

That's funny. I thought of the Incredible Hulk.

Please make your profile visible if you want to continue to post comments.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Okay, I'll confess I'm not up on the latest Broadway shows, so I hadn't heard of Wicked and had no idea why it seems to be all the rage. I've now done some research to find out what it's all about, and I must say I'm shocked! It's about a pair of witches! {gasp!} After all the fuss about Harry Potter over the years, I find it humorously ironic that all these Christians are standing in lines and frantically searching online for tickets to a Broadway show about... witches. You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried! LOL!

Miranda said...

If you want to talk more about "Wicked"... it's about The Wizard Of OZ"... prior to the movie that we all grew up on.
Interesting I think. I LIKE it. l LOVE Jesus. I don't find a conflict. Thanks for your opinion. We all have them.

gmommy said...

All for Him,
You may have some insight that I don't have. But I don't know that with however Jamie lost his job at BBC and whatever else he may have seen that he does see the things we see. And of course, we all see different layers of what happened also.
When I was around them they leaned toward innocence (Dana) and both thought whatever happens is orchestrated by God. (I don't have to be right or want to start a debate but I think bad things happen in this fallen world but we can learn and grow...that's not saying God isn't in control or can't work all things for our good) You may know more about how they feel and what they have been thru but I just would like to be careful not to assume or put words to their thoughts that may not be correct.

I cherish the memories and history I have at BBC and what has happened has been like a death but I don't think I could ever go back to living in that bubble again. That's me, of course.
I believe there are many Steve's out there doing damage. I think the problem is much bigger than one obnoxious man.
I HOPE the Parkers will see the bigger picture and grow from this experience. I want the very best for them both.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Miranda,

I'm with you! I was being sarcastic. I can't help but wonder if some of the same people who warned of the eeeeevils of Harry Potter are not some of the same people who are now trying to find tickets to Wicked. We watched Bewitched in the '60s. I read all 7 HP books and enjoyed them. I didn't find them to be in conflict with being a Christian. However, I once made the mistake of mentioning to someone I'd read Harry Potter, and the person said I needed to get those evil things out of my house. (I'm reminded of the story about Steve and Donna going through an Alabama man's business and throwing out objects that had "auras" around them.)

This show sounds like it would be good. I don't find a conflict either, but I'm sure some people do.

BkWormGirl said...

Nass - I often have to laugh at the irony you mentioned. I had someone tell my recently the Twighlight series is also the gateway booklet of the occult. It was hard to take her serious - with her black fingernail polish and all.

I do have to say with regard to Wicked - I bought tickets knowing nothing about it! It may have been the best investment this year. I enjoyed it SOOO very much. I am sure that does indicate I must be hell bound or some thing but it was so much fun. After all the "good witch" is actually pretty evil - so I bet that is the wolves in sheeps clothing deal right? Maybe it is actually a modern day New Testament fairy tale? Yeah that's what I am going with. (haha)

Miranda said...

NBBCOF,
You've got that right!
I can't tell you how many times I've been told that my gifts, the ones that GOD gave me were not meant for the REAL world. Yeah, I've read HP and have seen the movies, and OMG even the Twilight stuff too. It's recreational reading and viewing. (like Ramona & Beezus) Nothing to do with my LOVE of the Saviour that died for me.
I guess we are 'wicked' for being realistic and/or sarcastic. I am both. I confess.
Thanks for letting me on your blog.
(How do I make my profile more visible?)

gmommy said...

I don't think Nass actually sees a conflict(correct me if I am wrong:) I haven't seen Wicked yet but if it is a good play and people aren't naked or being immoral in some way I think it's wrong to limit oneself to only "Christian" entertainment. That's part of the "bubble" life I have put behind me. I had a SS teacher when my kids were young who said no Christian should take their kids to see Alladin. PLEEEASE! Then Mike Foster...minister and married to Bro R's daughter... said he had taken his kids twice. I didn't let my son go to a birthday party one time b/c they were going to a movie...not that the movie was bad... but it had a song in it from a bad band.... James Dobson said it was wrong so I obeyed without question.
Over all that censured living. Can't we use our brains all by ourselves... do we all have to do the same things or enjoy the same art or entertainment???
Sometimes the things labeled Christian or endorsed by the powers that be or Lifeway are pretty shallow and not so beautiful.

one random thing...I don't think Wicked is something that a lot of "Christians" are going to....I think it is a popular production that alot of people in general are going to.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Miranda,

To make your profile visible, click on your screen name above one of your comments. Then click on "Edit Profile." Check the first box in the "Privacy" section and scroll to the bottom and click on "Save Profile." It's up to you if you want to show any other information that appears on that page. None of that is required. Thanks!

New BBC Open Forum said...

I can't remember when this story was originally discussed, but it was a long time ago, so to bring the new readers up to date... about 2-3 years a man who was friends with two men who worked for a business owner in Alabama (Birmingham area) stated that about 3 years earlier, when SG was still at Gardendale, the business owner had Steve and Donna come to his place of business after hours to walk through the building and to pray, especially in those areas with a "strong demonic influence." Whenever Donna would perceive an "aura" associated with a specific area or object, they would stop and pray, and if there was an object involved, they would throw it out. Both this man's friends said items that were their personal property were thrown out without their permission or any compensation. One item was said to have been a stuffed buzzard that was someone's hunting trophy. (Didn't know buzzards were highly prized as hunting trophies, but whatever.) All this was said to have occurred after a series of messages by SG in which he talked about Satanic influences in the world and in the church in particular. It was stated that Donna had spent a lot of time on this subject in her women's ministry, too.

fogmachine said...

New BBC Open Forum,

Ok, I took the bait and listened to the rest of Steve's message. I was saddened by what I heard from his lips.

The Bible says that whoever leads the church will determine what the church becomes. The DNA of the church will really be a reflection of their pastor. For this reason, my heart aches over what I continue to hear from this once great pulpit at Bellevue.

A person becomes like the one who teaches them. Bellevue is becoming a mirror image of their leader each day that goes by. In Hebrews, the writer calls on the congregation to live their lifestyle after the pattern of their leader.

It's also dangerous to stay under the leadership of someone who is not qualified to be a pastor. Compromise leads to more compromise. The video of what I saw at the end of the service with Jamie was just terrible. It looked to me like Jamie was stuck between a rock and a hard place with nowhere to go but on stage to satisfy the charade of Steve Gaines.

It is incredibly important for the church today as it always has been, to have a leader who reflects what the Scripture says a leader should be.

In 1 Timothy, Paul gives the qualifications of what a pastor should be. He did this because they had church leaders who were not being what God intended. I wonder if Steve would have called Paul a troublemaker for calling them out on their sinful behavior as leaders?

Is Steve involved in ill gotten gain? Why not let the congregation know exactly what his pay is? Would it be embarrassing? Why hide something that should not be hidden. The things of God should not be hidden. Is it ok to make 10 times what the average person living in the church zip code makes?

Should a pastor be gentle? Is it ok to call your parishioners Hezbollah or yell and rant from the pulpit against anyone who calls your hand? Is it ok to ignore Matt. 18 to protect yourself? Is it ok to trespass?

1 Tim. 4:1-3 Seducing spirits, doctrines of demons? You just mentioned the story about the demonic presence in a man’s business in Birmingham. I had forgotten about that story. I remember another story Steve Gaines told about an out of body experience in Israel while on a trip to the Garden of Gethsemane. He said he found himself behind the ropes praying by the rock where Jesus prayed. He claimed a man in a black hooded robe said he could come over but the policeman told him no man existed. He claimed the man in the black hooded robe motioned for him to come over and pray.

Until Steve Gaines repents over his actions or Bellevue repents over what has been allowed to go on the past 3.5 years, it’s over. No church plant they are involved with or any other ministry will have God’s blessing if there is no repentance.

We all need to examine ourselves, repent, and seek God in our lives.

WishIhadknown said...

Is it just me or does Steve Gaines complain about the church too much?

WishIhadknown said...

gmommy, you are right. Losing our former church family is like experiencing a death. More than a death, though, we were betrayed by the people we trusted. The more I hear the more disgusted I become. The Search Committee obviously did not faithfully execute their duty. They started with their choice and never waivered.
I just wish I could go back to the day we voted and remain in my seat like a few very wise and knowledgeable saints did. I want my vote back!
Dreams, demonic auras etc. Its just too much!
How can anyone who was taught by Dr. Rogers listen to such non sense? Do not expose your children to this man's teachings!

BkWormGirl said...

Wish I had known -
I think you mentioned what for me is possibly the hardest aspect of this entire fiasco for me to handle. "They started with their choice and never waivered." This isn't a situation of they were deceived (which has happened before in the history of the church) they knew he was arrogant and proud and they pursued him knowing that! That blows me away. Betrayal is one of the hardest things to cope with, because it is to use your trust and vulnerability against you - it is the antithesis to Micah 6:8.

Former FBC Insider said...

New BBC Open Forum at 6:21 PM, July 13, 2009

Now THAT sounds 'Wicked'!

TN Lizzie said...

This isn't a situation of they were deceived (which has happened before in the history of the church) they knew he was arrogant and proud and they pursued him knowing that!

Aww, but think of it from their point of view. They were at the top of the heirarchy under Dr. Rogers. They chose who they thought would keep them at the top.

But then, when Jamie went to SG's church, we ALL knew that he would be back. We assumed that he would be bringing SG with him...

Seems a bit like that crowd in front of Pilate, huh? Seems like we're all a bit guilty...

BkWormGirl said...

Guess I must be the odd duck. I didn't put any of that together. I thought if you pledge to seek God's face and you claim to have prayed about something that you really did all of that. I have known people over the years who have served on a pastor search committee - they all describe it as a life changing process. A time of personal revival for them as they devoted everything to seeking the face of God. They describe it as a humbling experience. Haven't heard anything of the sort from the group identified as the pastor search committee for this dude.

gopher said...

Steve Gaines ranting at Christians....again
"Critics. "

Wonder if Steve Gaines ever listens to his own Sermons???
Steve's Interpretation of Paying Taxes....
"Do what I say, Not what I do"

" Full Cash Purchase Story Here "

Steve Gaines
"...if your mean, you are not filled with the Holy Spirit..."

Steve Gaines doesn't care about his Critics, as Steve is a
"dead man"

Why is Bellevue paying this dead man so much....?

Why is this Dead Man allowed to destroy Bellevue Baptist Church?

Steve Gaines has to be upbeat about the floundering church so he makes up this story of how many people were at the Starlight Spectacular.
"15,000....there is no way count". Steve then says its was well over "20,000 people "

A conservative number is more like 12,000+. And that was with all those promo ads on WMCTV 5 and K-Love radio.

The reason Steve had to inflate the numbers up to 20,000 was because

"almost 20,000" (anywhere between 18,000 and 20,000) was the number given for the 2008 Starlight Spectacular. (Messenger Sept/Oct 08)

Make it Look Good Steve....
= a good Fish Story

Can you believe anything coming from the Pulpit of Bellevue Baptist Church??? Right Jamie?

32yrs@bbc said...

Because so many stand to protect him there must be someplace that we are able to denounce what he preaches as the false doctrine that it is. -bkwg, 6:28 pm, July 12

I do not believe he is guilty of teaching false doctrine; at least I've never heard him do that. There is a lack of integrity which is essential in a spiritual leader; and a lack of love and respect for the church to which he was called to shepherd.

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profits me nothing. Love suffers long and is kind; love envies not; love vaunts not itself, is not puffed up. Does not behave itself unseemly, seeks not its own, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil, does not rejoice in inquity, but rejoices in truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails" I Corinthians 13:1-8

That is God's plumb line for ALL of us.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Good article on the Watchdog's blog today. I thought this anonymous comment was particularly good.

fogmachine said...

The leadership at Bellevue worship men instead of God. That's why they don't see wrong when it's plain as day or they accept the sin going on because they fear they will lose position, power, or business deals with each other or the church. The latter reason is probably the most prevalent.

This is what's happening in the mega church scene all over the country.

The Southern Baptist Convention is going down fast because we elect leaders based on size of church. I wish the convention would elect leaders from smaller churches. We would probably see a much more humble type of leader who isn't consumed with money and power.

A movement in the SBC from smaller churches can happen because they have the votes. The vast majority of votes inside the convention come from churches 500 and less.

Churches all over the SBC need to start thinking for themselves and elect humble men of God that will take the SBC back to what it should be.

The SBC has been trained over the last 20 years to swallow and follow the big boys. That needs to come to an end now before the SBC is no longer.

BkWormGirl said...

32years@BBC -

You are right. I guess he doesn't actually preach false doctrine. He does however preach stuff that is highly subjective and often disputed as to the interpretation. (For example, anyone who asks questions is divisive. Ranting and raving about tithing, scaring people into "submission" regarding what he deems to be the important issue of the moment.) And his life does not follow with what the NT sets forth as the qualities of a leader (itty bitty fence, and any other of the host of lies he has been caught in) so is his life defying scripture? I guess I don't listen to him enough to know what he preaches about. So I believe you are right when you say he is not teaching false doctrine. However, I do feel he is not living according to scripture - and for me, I view that as something that must be denounced. When I said false theology I did not speak with clarity. I view his life and the way he treats people as something that is very much out of line with the way Jesus lives. I think the world is watching, both with what we as Christians do and what we don't do. And to not denounce his actions mars or sullies the reputation of Christ. The only other parallel I can think of is the Pro Life movement. I am pro life, and I want the abortion clinics to stop their work today. However, even though I believe an abortion clinic is wrong when some nut job goes and bombs the clinic that is wrong! The nut job bomber does NOT speak for Jesus. He does NOT represent Jesus at all. It is easy to denounce someone like that because it is so clear that what they are doing is wrong. Possibly more harmful is when a preacher stands in the pulpit and acts the way SG does. He screams about cross dressers and homosexuals while allowing a pedophile to stay on staff. He mocks an act of trespassing while preaches about people who asks questions. He talks about tithing while stealing from the church (remember his daughter's trips and the shoes, and dinners, even if he paid it back he took it for a time.)

I guess I say all that to say that you are right, technically I don't know of any false doctrine. But I feel his life is an ongoing story of false theology. Hope that helps to make sense of what I was saying. I am sorry for saying he was preaching false theology. You were right to point out that is not true.

32yrs@bbc said...

I hope everyone understands that a pastor only has as much power as the lay leadership allows him to have. Therefore, all the blame/shame cannot be dumped on him alone. He is what he is but he has been enabled to do what he does without consequences by those who have true power in the church. It is obvious that he had an agenda when he arrived and that was to make Bellevue into his own image. In his goodbyes,he made it clear to his former congregation all that was wrong with Bellevue. When he first arrived, he made it clear to his new congregation that he intended to teach them how to be a praying church (as though Bellevue was not already a praying church) and a church that loved its community (as though Bellevue never ministered to the needy) - and things escalated from there. Again, he could not have done all he has done without acceptance from the lay leadership and apathy from the membership. Just my opinion.

Bill said...

^^^EXACTLY!!! The lay persons thought they were getting someone with integrity, afterall Bellevue had someone with integrity for 30 yrs, so it was assumed that he to was trustworthy.

He was initially given a "Grace Period" (people were giving him the benefit of the doubt)in which he demonstrated his inability to lead and teach. Then, the roof caved in and he has not been able to stop the bleeding (even through the lies).

There are some people at Bellevue that I thought were tremendous leaders, obviously they are NOT!

I wondered how long it would take the people of Bellevue to catch on as to how he was. Initially, I was hoping for the best.

The great thing is "GOD is glorified even in ALL of this"

Grace,

Bill

Romans 5:1

New BBC Open Forum said...

32yrs,

It's been my contention for a long time that SG is not the problem but rather a symptom of a much larger problem. "Fog" summed it up nicely in the first paragraph of his/her 10:51 p.m. comment.

Here is what SG told his congregation at Gardendale. Is it not obvious the search committee had their minds made up from the beginning? Dr. Rogers, wonderful man that he was, made it clear that SG was his choice. IMO he should not have given advice or "guidance" to the search committee in any way, but I believe at least some of them had their own agenda(s), too.

Was not the announcement on July 3, 2005 not the strangest pastor search committee conclusion you've ever seen? They announced they'd found "God's man," but they would not reveal his name until the next Sunday morning when the "mystery candidate" would preach in both Sunday morning services after which there would be an immediate standing vote to call him. The general consensus was that it would be SG, but we wouldn't find out until the next week.

According to SG, he was one of five candidates in the final running but didn't even know he was being considered until he read it in the paper. Does anyone believe that?

1. Did he not apply for the job?

2. Who were the other four "finalists"? Did anyone ever heard a single name besides SG? Can anyone name even one? I heard last year that Mike Huckabee was on the short list, but that seems to have just been a rumor (and a humorous one at that).

3. Out of 170 applicants, could not even one other candidate ever been brought in to preach?

4. If SG was so adamantly opposed to leaving Gardendale, why did he hop on a plane for Memphis every time the search committee called?

5. The "Gideon" story aside, what did they finally offer him that tipped the scales in favor of leaving Gardendale?

6. Why, during the time he says he was saying no, was he spotted here shopping for private schools for his kids?

7. Why, even though they bought houses that did not cost the same, did SG and JP get home loans from the same lender (a high-ranking officer there has tight BBC ties, having headed up a very important BBC committee) for exactly the same oddball amount? Was there a "package deal" here? Or was it just coincidence? (I'm open to that possibility, but so far it doesn't pass the smell test.) This is all a matter of public record. No "inside information" here.

Lin said...

"It's been my contention for a long time that SG is not the problem but rather a symptom of a much larger problem."

Amen. And it is the same problem for all mega churches over time. It becomes more about the 'church' (as in buildings, numbers, growth charts, programs, etc) than it is about Christ.

gmommy said...

In my opinion it's not just mega churches that are confused...about scripture,about who Jesus is,the example He lived on earth, who the "church" is and why we meet together for a service or worship time,who the heck worship is about,being a servant vs. a self anointed entitled "authority" over everyone,(excuse me Jesus, even if your Word is clear on lying,self control,pride,repentance,sin,causing my weaker brother to stumble....on and on...I will follow the authority person YOU(???) placed in what we call a pulpit.... as if even that is something to be worshiped????
I say that thinking of several ministers who are not from mega churches and we can read the hateful, prideful, "it's my way or the highway...I am the authority over my flock" on many blogs for ourselves.
Things are messed up at the core of what these men are being taught in the seminaries, thru the faith statements, how the jobs and positions are filled and who is in them, and maybe even why certain ego and power driven men become ministers in the first place.

I also know there are humble, godly,loving ministers/servants who are true followers of Jesus. Thank the Lord for these men!!!!

drstevej said...

As a pastor, I say... shepherds feed sheep, they lead sheep, they care for sheep... they do not beat them.

On the other hand... sheep have teeth and I have seen them leave a shepherd bloody.

New BBC Open Forum said...

As a rule, sheep don't bite the hand that feeds them!

I Must Needs Go Home said...

The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Jeremiah 5:30-31

I Must Needs Go Home said...

A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

I think I left out the first part of that passage.

I Must Needs Go Home said...

Woe be unto you, Steve Gaines!

Jeremiah 23:1-2

Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

gopher said...

"Do what I say, Not what I do"

Steve Gaines being passionate
"Don't think about ourselves... Get in the Game" 7/5/2009

Steve is worn out
"Going on that well needed Vacation " July 15/2009


"returning from last well needed vacation "
England trip from the end of May thru the beginning of June 09


Employee's robbing from their Employer
"..not working a 40 hour week for a 40 hour paycheck.. "


Steve not working
"Why I don't preach Wednesday nights "
(Internet Explorer only)
Needs to raise Godly children

Steve Gaines on
" How to Raise Children"

Donna Gaines Story
" dealing with a "wayward son" "

32yrs@bbc said...

drstevej said...
As a pastor, I say... shepherds feed sheep, they lead sheep, they care for sheep... they do not beat them.

On the other hand... sheep have teeth and I have seen them leave a shepherd bloody.

9:33 PM, July 15, 2009

I agree there is plenty of blame to go around on both sides. However, James 3:1 tells us that those who teach the Word of God
(spiritual leaders) are held by God to a greater accountability.
Adrian Rogers always said if there is a problem in the church, look behind the pulpit first.

gmommy said...

Question:
Is there anything I should know about the Bible called "The Gift"... Holman Christian Standard Bible??

Oh wait...I just read the inside and it is from Lifeway and the SBC. Does that mean it is the King James version or NIV???? My son is asking me about this and it's the first time I have seen one.

Also, is "The Life Church" mostly a charismatic(??)church? Didn't it split from another church?? Like another take over of some kind???

Junkster said...

gmommy,
The Holman Christian Standard Bible is a new translation produced by the SBC. They wanted a translation they owned so they didn't have to pay royalties to Zondervan for the NIV when they use Bible references in Sunday School literature, etc. As far as I can tell, it is comparable to other modern translations.

There is more than one Life Church in the Memphis area. The largest one is a charsimatic church that meets on Germantown Rd & Dexter, with satelite campuses in Colliveville (at the YMCA) & Jackson, TN. But there is another church in Collierville, on Winchester, that was called Life Church at Schilling Farms until recently, when they changed their name to The Church at Schilling Farms. I believe that church was started as a split from a Baptist church.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I suppose just continuing to use the KJV so they didn't have to pay royalties was too simple.

gmommy said...

Junk,
In Matthew...the little girl who was brought to Jesus to bring back to life(shown in the Passion Play for years) in the KJV and New KJV she is dead when brought to Jesus. In this Holman...she is NEARLY dead. Why would they change that? It makes me wonder what else has been changed.

gmommy said...

I just learned yesterday that Mr. Collums, beloved teacher and headmaster at ECS...had terminal cancer.
Today he is dead from a blood clot.

He had nothing to do with BBC. He was a member of 1st Evan last I knew.
I learned a lot when my daughter had him. Wonderful man. Way too young.
A lot of young people are in shock right now.

Junkster said...

NASS,
The SBC had switched from the KJV to the NIV for most of their literature long before the HCSB was created, because the NIV was what most evangelical church members in America were reading.

gmommy,
It's just a translation issue -- the phrase used in Matthew 9 that was translated "even now dead" in the KJV ("just died" in the NIV) literally means "just now has come to the end". The HCSB translators just chose a translation that fit closest to the meaning of the phrases used in Mark and Luke (different Greek words which indicate that the girl was nearly dead).

The biggest problem I have with the HCSB is that it doesn't particularly add much to the world of biblical translation. It may be that the money it saves the SBC in royalties to Zondervan is substantial enough to justify the translation from a financial standpoint. But there are better reasons to do a new translation, such as making the Bible more understandable, readable, and accurate than what is available in existing translations. I haven't read all of the HCSB, just a few excerpts, but from what I've seen it doesn't add much in those terms.

gmommy said...

Thanks Junk. I can tell tell my son it's OK...I told him earlier that the only thing I knew was that the SBC was profiting from it's sales. (read Lifeway and SBC on front pages) I was glad he was concerned about it since he had never heard of it.

Been Redeemed said...

Someone told me recently that LWF was getting ready to come out with an Adrian Rogers' Study Bible. It is supposed to contain his personal study notes from his years in the Lord's service. Haven't a clue when or how much or if it's even in the works yet, but looking forward to probably getting one for each of my family members. Can you imagine the knowledge contained in those study notes? Anyone else heard anything about this?

Richard said...

And Jacksonville scores yet another headline … I bet THIS sent Mac Brunson into apoplexy:

Radical Church Protest

On Sunday, Westboro members Rachel and Charles Hockenbarger brought their seven children downtown to carry signs with messages like "You're going to hell" or "God is your enemy" outside First Baptist Church.

"They are a false church and lying church and really a whorehouse and dog kennel," Rachel Hockenbarger said. "Their gospel -- so to speak -- is going to take everyone to hell."

They said their protests are to show that churches across America have it all wrong. They say they don't preach the Bible, but spread the message that God hates sin but loves the sinner.

"At every church... are false teachers," Rachel Hockenbarger said. "They tell what you want to hear because you pay them. If they told you the truth, their pews would be empty and the coffers would be empty. They wouldn't be able to keep their doors open, and that's why they tell you the lies you want to hear."

New BBC Open Forum said...

Richard,

Consider the source. A protest by Westboro could almost be considered a badge of honor. They're beyond the lunatic fringe. Mac probably treated them the same way he should have treated the Watchdog -- ignored them.

Richard said...

Oh I fully understand they are "beyond the lunatic fringe." It's just that it put FBCJax in the news again, and not in a very good light.

The local news media publishes a lot of religious articles, the vast majority of which are positive. It seems that FBCJax hasn't had a "positive" news article written about them in a LONG time. I also find it a bit ironic that the JSO will go to all ends to help Brunson silence the Watchdog, but will issue a permit to this group and sends uniformed officers to make sure the picket is peaceful.

This would have never been allowed to happen under Homer Lindsay's watch. Is this a sign that the once powerful political machine that FBCJax was is no longer?

Former FBC Insider said...

"They tell what you want to hear because you pay them. If they told you the truth, their pews would be empty and the coffers would be empty."

Like their church is empty... they have 60 members and only 11 are outside of family members.

This is the strangest group of people I've ever ran across. The hate they harbor for everyone is sickening. The list of who they would love is very, very short. They never tell you who is worthy of God's love, just who He hates. Nothing about them is either Christian or Baptist.

Mad Mac does some unseemly stuff, but these people are wacked out.
Go to their website:

godhatesfags.com

No kidding! You won't believe your eyes. Check out 'why' they picketed FBCJ. I can't make out any reasoning and would love to know if anyone else can decipher it.

This is priceless... check out the pastor (that hurt to type those words) at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

Comments welcomed!!

Former FBC Insider said...

Mac announced that they would be picketed on Wednesday night in the service, but no mention of why or what it was about.

NBBCOF,
Exactly what he should have done with WD. Maybe he has learned a thing or two since then? Hardly.

Richard,
One can only hope and pray!

gmommy said...

I can see how Mac could use the extremists to his benefit.I hate that for him.
Eventually those who follow Christ will have to come up with some other term of identification than Christian. Not only are the extremists making that term a joke but so are ministers.
WHY didn't Mac consult Maurio before he got the no trespass warrant and called WD ugly names! Isn't that why Mac hired the PR guy?! Ugggg!

Cakes said...

I met that Jamie Parker once--man, every hair was in place. He was genuine and kind.

I couldn't have gotten through that song. I got misty just watching.

Richard said...

FFBCI, these people are "Jim Jones" crazy. What kind of a so-called Christian group would name their website such as that. By the time I checked the site out, the schedule had been updated and FBCJax was no longer there. However, their convoluted reasoning behind upcoming demonstrations gave me some sort of idea.

I almost pitty poor Mac. He didn't need anymore negative publicity. Most he has brought upon himself; this he didn't deserve.

Also, if you read through some of the comments in the news article, it said that this group was picketing several churches and synagogues in Jacksonville but it was only the demonstration at FBCJax that made the headlines.

gopher said...

Bellevue Baptist
Daily Devotions

July 21

You Can Run, But You Cannot Hide

Obadiah 4--"'Though you build high like the eagle, though you set your nest among the stars, from there I will bring you down,' declares the LORD."

One of the few movies I enjoy watching is It's a Wonderful Life. It is about a man named George Bailey who runs a building and loan business in the small town of Bedford Falls. When eight thousand dollars, a sizeable sum in the 1940s, is inadvertently missing from the company's account, George's archenemy, Mr. Potter, accuses him of embezzlement and swears out a warrant for his arrest. Potter laughs at George's predicament, and yells as he frantically leaves his office, "Go ahead, run. You can't hide in a town the size of Bedford Falls." Indeed, George could run, but he could not hide.

The prophet Obadiah told the ancient nation of Edom the same thing. The Edomites were the direct descendents of Esau, Isaac's wild, rebellious son. From the time he and his twin brother, Jacob, were born, they fought with one another. Jacob was the father of the Israelites. Just as he and Esau had battled one another, so did their descendents. When Israel was coming out of the wilderness after forty years of wandering, the Edomites stubbornly refused to aid them with food, water, or shelter (Numbers 20:14-21). Later, when Israel was invaded by outside forces, Edom openly rejoiced. Obadiah condemned them for their antagonism toward Israel, and told them that God would avenge His people. Although the Edomites tried to hide in the security of their mountains, God knew where they were and He would send appropriate retribution.

Obadiah reminds us not to run rebelliously away from God. Adam and Eve tried (Genesis 3), as did the prodigal son (Luke 15:11f), but to no avail. We must run to Him instead. Rebellion is futile. He knows where we are. We can run, but we cannot hide.

From the book Morning Manna
by Dr. Steve Gaines


Wow "A Wonderful Life"?

Isn't Steve playing the role of "Potter" at Bellevue Baptist Church?

Another "One of the few movies I (Steve Gaines) enjoy watching"
is "Walk The Line"

TN Lizzie said...

Today's Daily Treasure from Adrian Rogers at Love Worth Finding:

Available to God
July 22, 2009

One of the greatest secrets I ever learned was that God didn't want me to do anything for Him. He wanted to do something through me. Philippians 2:13 says, " For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."

Whenever I hear people say, "I just serve God in my poor, little, old weak way," I feel like saying, "Well, quit it!" God doesn't want you to serve Him in your poor, little, old weak way. He wants you to die to yourself and let Him live through you in His mighty, glorious, dynamic way.

Then, we can say, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me" (Galatians 2:20).

Adrian Rogers
___________________________________

Just sayin' there's a mighty big difference!
___________________________________

Cakes, It's good to see you! How are you doing?

gopher said...

TN Lizzie said...
"Just sayin' there's a mighty big difference!"


There is also a big difference in performance as shown "Here"

These are attendance records released by David Coombs in the quarterly report dated June 30 2009 put in a graph form

Richard said...

We’re having fun in Jacksonville this week ….

Jacksonville Church Blogger Sues First Baptist

gmommy said...

Go Watchdog!!!! Mac and his gang were first to take legal action yet they lie about it in the newspaper...why am I surprised???
Their story is so bogus and full of holes. Good for the attorney who wasn't afraid to take this case!!!

Richard said...

Banned Blogger Sues Megachurch and Pastor

Cakes said...

Holy Cow, it's a regular Dukes of Hazzard episode down there in Jacksonville.

So an officer of the law, and in the inner circle of Brunson, gathers subpoenas to investigate charges of crimes never filed, only to determine that the content of the blog was in no way criminal--a determination which could have been anticipated without subpeonas and outings.

That's like the most contrived and convoluted scheme I've ever seen in my life. And that's saying a lot, considering I'm an art critic. My goodness, I am so grateful that I longer place any faith in churches, religious orders and all manner of exalted fools whereever they fester.

Break out the banjos, boyz.

Former FBC Insider said...

It's a little more like the movie 'Deliverance'.

I hear the banjos...

Ding a dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang, dang...

New BBC Open Forum said...

CORRECTION: Information I received a couple weeks ago indicated that the initial location of the "Arlington campus" was going to be on Huff Puff Road in Lakeland. This is incorrect! A group led by Scott Benjamin is starting a church plant called "theRefuge" at that location. They've already begun and say they'll be completely up and running in October.

I know for a fact there are people who've read this blog who knew the idea that BBC's "Arlington campus" was going to be at this location was incorrect, but not one person stepped up to correct it. I'd just like to say thank you -- not!

The purpose of this blog is not to spread false rumors and gossip. It's not some silly game! The purpose is to disseminate accurate information. I have an e-mail address posted in my profile. In the future if you see inaccurate information posted here, will you please take a moment to e-mail me with any corrections or simply post them in a comment?

Oh, and where were you, oh omniscient "BBC Staff"? You see, two weeks ago I delayed posting (and soon rejected) two comments from someone calling himself BBC Staff in which s/he said...

As a BBC staff member, I finally woke up to God's calling. I am starting a new blog entitled "BBC Daily Staff Report." On this blog I will report the daily, verifiable happenings around the BBC campus. I am in upper level meetings and have direct access to all things Bellevue. Please feel free to come and read my new blog written from the inside as I present the truth at Bellevue.

That was on a Tuesday evening. I immediately suspected this was a hoax and not a very good one at that. In fact, I haven't seen this bad an effort since "truth rules" dropped in before April Fool's Day a couple years ago. The following day "BBC Staff" posted some information s/he claimed came from a recent staff meeting. Most of it was information that was already public knowledge and most of that was wrong.

Then less than 48 hours after s/he showed up, "BBC Staff" went poof! His/her blog was removed, and I see even the profile is no longer visible. Wonder why? Oooh... did someone get to him? LOL! Sorry, buddy, you'll have to do a lot better than that.

I do not believe the information about the "new church" was in any way an attempt on the part of anyone to mislead, so I don't want to give that impression. It came from a trusted source. I believe it was simply information about this new church which came out at the same time the "Arlington campus" was front page news, and it was assumed references to "theRefuge" were referring to the "Arlington campus" when they were not. Phrases like "our new church plant" from people still at BBC certainly gave that impression, but again, I don't believe there was any intention to mislead.

My only issue about this was that not one person bothered to correct it, and I know there are readers of this blog who knew better. BTW, no one has corrected it yet. I just happened to come across the information myself today, realized I had published incorrect information earlier, and want to correct that now.

All the best to Scott Benjamin and those folks in their efforts.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Another video about the "Arlington campus."

New BBC Open Forum said...

CORRECTION: Steve's message will not be piped in live to the "Arlington campus." Rather, they have announced they will tape and show the previous week's "11:11" message. The 9:30 service will continue to be broadcast on TV.

gopher said...

"Thar's GOLD in them thar hills !"

"of Arlington TN"


Now with 3 new church starts Faith
The Refuge
Bellevue Baptist

Population of Arlington TN 9700

of which Phil Newberry claims 2000 in the area are already members of Bellevue

Population of Memphis TN 670,000

"nothing left in Memphis"
just the people

New BBC Open Forum said...

Good grief! What happened in Memphis during the second quarter of 2007 to skew the median price on the graph like that?

gopher said...

Oh that was the time Steve was referring to here

"in 2008"

when all those people were moving to Arlington, TN

Now Bellevue is reaching out to them

Former FBC Insider said...

NBBCOF,

Re: your correction post...
Now that my friend is transparency.
I hardly recognized it.

THANK YOU!

Surely others in leadership will at least take notice.

New BBC Open Forum said...

FFBCI,

Thank you.

Don't bet on it. Although I have to admit the "Phil" videos were a move in that direction, I wonder if those would have been published had the audio of Steve's "information meeting" with the SS teachers not leaked out. ("Information meeting" -- "That means I talk. Ha ha ha ha. You don't. Heh heh heh.") These guys always seem to be reactive, not proactive. For example, after the June 11th "information meeting" the June 21st Sunday morning service was changed, by SG's own admission, from its usual and originally planned format to a "preview" of the "11:11" service.

Another recent example was SG's "Jamie Parker has not been fired" address to the choir. I've always thought being told you need to find another place to serve constituted being fired, but maybe that's just me.

Junkster said...

NASS said ...
Good grief! What happened in Memphis during the second quarter of 2007 to skew the median price on the graph like that?


Since the number of house sales didn't change much, just the median price, all it takes is one or two multi-million dollar houses in the mix to skew the numbers.

I've always thought being told you need to find another place to serve constituted being fired, but maybe that's just me.

It's semantics -- you know, like what the meaning of "is" is.

Bill said...

Dear Steve Gaines:

Please check one:

I will be moving to Mid-Town

I will be moving to Frayser

I will be moving to South Memphis

I will be moving to Orange Mound

I will be moving to another Gated community somewhere in Memphis


Signed,


The Pot Calling the Kettle Black

New BBC Open Forum said...

Ouch.

gopher said...

Before Steve Gaines went on vacation it was

"Get In The Game"

Now after Steve Gaines gets back from another 2 week vacation its

"Were In a War"

By the way if Steve does move it will be to Fayette County,

Not Memphis, TN

Amk47 said...

New BBC Open Forum said:

"The purpose of this blog is not to spread false rumors and gossip. It's not some silly game! The purpose is to disseminate accurate information."


If you want to elevate this blog past "silly game" status, then i suggest you have the guts to put your names with your "false rumors and gossip." Last time i checked, rumors and gossip usually are spoken from the shadows, toward those in the light of public opinion.

The fact that almost all of you post anonymously, leaves me with zero respect for anything you say.


oh and by the way, i really love how you all changed your opinion about Jamie, now that he's leaving. Suddenly the "Jamie Parker Show" turns into "poor abused Jamie" Funny how that works.

Even though it's a rant, i'll still claim it, Aaron King

New BBC Open Forum said...

Just thought everyone might like to meet our little friends. Introducing AMK47 (right) and his buddy, Rex (left), both of whom think because they've signed their names to their comments they somehow carry more weight. I know I'm a lot more likely to take you both seriously now that I can put your names with your faces!

P.S. Do your parents know you're up this late?

New BBC Open Forum said...

AMK47 wrote...

If you want to elevate this blog past "silly game" status, then i suggest you have the guts to put your names with your "false rumors and gossip." Last time i checked, rumors and gossip usually are spoken from the shadows, toward those in the light of public opinion.

The fact that almost all of you post anonymously, leaves me with zero respect for anything you say.

oh and by the way, i really love how you all changed your opinion about Jamie, now that he's leaving. Suddenly the "Jamie Parker Show" turns into "poor abused Jamie" Funny how that works.

Even though it's a rant, i'll still claim it, Aaron King
.

Hey, name it and claim it. That's funny!

I do believe we have a budding junior Bratton in our midst! I guess my only question to you is why do you bother to continue to grace us with your presence if "all of us" have zero credibility? It's amazing to me that a man (ahem) possessing such high standards as yourself would want his name to be associated with such a disreputable bunch as "all of us."

As for anonymity {yawn}, you wouldn't take anyone here any more seriously than you do now if we did all sign our names. That's a straw man argument and you know it. Everyone knows Tom Rich's name now, and the people who said they didn't take him seriously before simply because they didn't know his name don't take him any more seriously today.

It's my understanding "The Jamie Show" is a nickname for Jamie that was adopted by the BBC youth long before Jamie went to Gardendale. (You would likely have still been in diapers then.) It's no secret, Jamie is a showman.

gopher said...

AMK47 wrote...
"...Last time i checked, rumors and gossip usually are spoken from the shadows..."

Sounds like your talking about those secret meetings Steve Gaines and the "Bellevue Blue Bloods" are having, that no one knows about until one day surprise ...were going to Arlington, TN ,... this has been in the planning stages for the last 10 years. Cool

Or how about that $2 million your group are having fun with at that Belleuve VUE and where they don't even have enough seating (nice Country Club for a group of elect people)
"Here"
"Here"
"Here"


and are now taking reservations for sleep overs, co-ed???
"Here"

What a Blast

Cakes said...

I am always amused when one of the Bellevue faithful needs reminding why anonymity is valued against reprisals; and the record demonstrates that conceited pastors and their stooges give critics every reason to fear them. It’s been well-documented here and elsewhere.

That said, Bellevue is a lost cause. Most of the alienated and unwelcome have moved-on to other churches, some are still patiently looking, while others have had it with preachers and so-called “ministries.” I don’t think that reporting or dissecting each new progression in the Bellevue saga will affect its reform, nor does it really help in the restoration of the harmed or displaced.

The community of NBBCOF is made up of so many unique and wonderful individuals, brought together by tragic circumstances; yet having survived it, let Bellevue go. It’s all under the rug now, and the lumps will stay there. But the associations and friendships are too valuable to discard.

What words appropriate to this community's values and purpose, as it applies today, could fit into the acronym NBBCOF?

Just thinking out loud.

BkWormGirl said...

Hey Cakes -- here is my first attempt

Newly
Befriended &
Beautiful
Companions -
Offering
Friendship or Fellowship.

Amk47 said...

man, i must of hit a nerve.

Love the picture, by the way. Not sure what you're trying to prove with it, other than that we are college students and that Rex can make funny faces. Also, i'm not sure if my parents knew i was up that late. College has given me bad sleeping habits i guess.

oh my, where to begin.

New BBC said:
"both of whom think because they've signed their names to their comments they somehow carry more weight"

We're not the only ones. it seems Dr. Rogers thought that way about anonymous letters in a sermon or two. i can give you a reference if you want? I think he's right.

New BBC also said:

"why do you bother to continue to grace us with your presence if "all of us" have zero credibility?"

good question. i try to limit contact for that very reason, but however, when you all start ridiculing something that i know is doing a great ministry for the community (ie:Vue,Bellevue loves Memphis), i, being my idealistic college student self, feel the need to defend it.

i can't speak for 'people' i can only speak for myself, oh and Dr.Rogers, when i say i would value what you have to say more if you put your name behind it. Those of you who do, even though i may not agree, i'll listen and respect what you say.

"Gopher" said:

"Or how about that $2 million your group are having fun with at that Belleuve VUE and where they don't even have enough seating (nice Country Club for a group of elect people)"


Wow. You picked the wrong ministry to throw out illegitimate facts on. You see, i've lived at the vue as a Resident Manager last semester, so i know a little about what goes on there. First off, we have plenty of seats...don't i know, i've had to set them out many,many, times. Those pictures are from the first prayer meeting we had there, and rather than set out seats, we chose to sit on the floor. (scandalous i know)

'Gopher' also said:

"and are now taking reservations for sleep overs, co-ed???"

...Umm what? i'm not sure where you saw that, but i think i know where you 'wanted' to see that. If you're referring to the "Apply to live at the vue" box on the facebook page, that is for Resident Managers, who work and live at the vue. It clearly states that they have to be MALE.

Now i'm going to take the advice of your forum moderator, and leave all of you to your own devices.

- Aaron King

Cakes said...

And you'll take yours with you, I hope, son.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Nothing to prove, dear, and no nerves hit. Just thought our readers would like to put a face with the name since you seem to think it's so important for people to know it's you whenever you comment. :-)

In case you haven't noticed the difference, this is a blog, not a letter. I can't think of any circumstances where I'd mail someone an anonymous letter. Public behavior by a public figure is fodder for public analysis.

i can't speak for 'people' i can only speak for myself, oh and Dr.Rogers, when i say i would value what you have to say more if you put your name behind it. Those of you who do, even though i may not agree, i'll listen and respect what you say.

No, you cannot speak for Dr. Rogers. And you're still throwing up the same old flimsy straw man.

Now i'm going to take the advice of your forum moderator, and leave all of you to your own devices.

Thank you. I hope you'll remember that the next time you can't resist the urge to come back and comment and then wonder why you don't see it published.

gopher said...

Amk47 said...

"It clearly states that they have to be MALE."

Oh excuse me. I forgot, the Vue was a part of that "look and smells like Bellevue" that Phil Newberry talked about...



Amk47 said...
"....we have plenty of seats...don't i know, i've had to set them out many,many, times. Those pictures are from the first prayer meeting we had there, and rather than set out seats, we chose to sit on the floor."

Guess there was a lazy Resident Manager on duty that night.


Just another expensive Toy where Bellevue members can Get in the Game

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

I would encourage everyone to read this post. This is pivotal.

Fbc Jax Watchdog > The Transformed Media Landscape.
Maurilio Amorim has an excellent blog post about how the Internet and its new social networking tools are radically changing communication - both between humans and how humans interact with organizations. Maurilio embedded a very thought-provoking video presentation by Clay Shirky, an expert on social impacts of Internet technologies and author of "Here Comes Everybody: The Power of Organizing Without Organizations". Shirky's talk starts off explaining the current explosion of Internet social networking and how it fits into the historical context of the old style communication that we all have grown up with in the 20th century.
...
I am going to share some thoughts about this video, and in this and a few upcoming articles I want to discuss some of the points Shirky makes about how organizations respond to this media transformation.

Richard said...

And Jacksonville scores yet ANOTHER hit …

Three deacons are suing Bethel Baptist for access to records

”My God, My God, why have you forsaken our people and me? The people who say they were called by you have deceive us with your words, and robbing us blind religiously, mentally and emotionally in the name of Jesus.”

Dr. Bill Loney said...

the biggest troublemaker ever was at Loney Mountain Church was Eli Fontenot, a chicken feed peddler of Jewish/Cajun descent. He runned oft with the offerin box after dinner on the grounds...the 3 dollars, half roll of 2 cent stamps, dozen eggs, jar of bread n butter pickles, and 4 sweet taters weren't never recovered. But a couple of the elders came up on him some time later a couple of towns over. After they 'fellowshipped' with him, he aint likely to be stealin offerin boxes no more...or eatin food 'cept thats been blended up.

On a side note...is that swine flu stuff over yet? Cause I kilt no hogs since they started frettin over it, and they done bout eat me out of my retired money. Heck, Clara, the old mama pig, weighs bout 1200 pounds. She done et up one of the neighbors rabbit dogs and 2 of ol man perkins emus. Ida butchered her already 'ceptin she's been bussin' the local kids to summer school...you wont believe where they put the lil stop sign:]

William T. Loney, MD

New BBC Open Forum said...

Hey, doc! Long time, no see. How's Phel and the gang?

gopher said...

here is a interesting story

Steve is quoted "Here" in 2009 saying

"According to Gaines, a preacher’s success depends greatly on his private practice,
not only in sermon preparation, but also in prayer.

“Make prayer the priority of your life and preaching the priority of your ministry,” he says.
In the third chapter of Mark’s Gospel, he explains, Jesus called his disciples to be with Him.
Only then did he send them out to preach and cast out demons.

“You better not try to preach until you’ve been with Jesus,” Gaines says. With a smile,
he adds, “You sure better not try to cast out a demon until you’ve been with Jesus. …"

Because sometime back in the Gardendale days, Steve had this "encounter " .
Steve didn't know whether or not the man was demon possessed or not...


could it have been the "boy Steve punched" out back in the 7th grade?

I Must Needs Go Home said...

Does Steve Gaines measure success by numbers? Or does he measure success biblically? No amount of effort by Steve Gaines can produce anything real if God isn't in it. The Bible clearly states that God gives the increase.

Someone above said his messages are biblical. I say search the Word, compare and contrast, look for proof that demonstrates that is so. I've heard plenty come from his mouth that won't stand up to biblical scrutiny. Steve Gaines is gradually dumbing down the message. His sermons would not have been tolerated in times past by the Bellevue congregation. However, Steve is symptomatic of the problems facing the entire SBC. They claim the Bible is inerrant, but they are afraid to really preach God's truth. Today, the men in the pulpits are compromisers and idolators who seek filthy lucre and the favor of men. For your soul's sake, go find a church with a humble servant of God. Don't stay at BBC to prove a point. As long as the country club set is running things there is little hope for anything but pragmatic compromise.

Jesus said: My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me


Do God's sheep hear His voice in the preaching of Steve Gaines?

All For HIM said...

I just took a look at BBC's website. There is no trace that Jamie Parker was ever there. If you look under the Ministries link and select worship it has Ryan Wingo now listed as worship leader and Mark Blair as the Minister of Music but only doing the Choir and Special Productions. Does anyone know if Ryan is going to be the worship leader at that 9:30 service as well as the 11:11 or Arlington worship service?

I guess when you're in the Grand Wizard's...ooops....I mean...Senior Pastor's dynasty it does have it's perks. We have to remember that pesky Good Ole Boy system.

gopher said...

There was a Tornado that passed thru the Bellevue crosses and hit the front side of Kohl's , went across Germantown Pkwy, hit the Shell Gas Station and went into Countrywood. What a mess....

"Channel 3 News"

TN Lizzie said...

Check this out...a Russian newspaper article written in English...

I checked with snopes and it's true.

It's about the demise of our country and state of affairs here under Obama's leadership...

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/

WARNING: There are pictures on this page by photographers who don't waste film on much clothing. I did a quick copy and paste into Word so I could read the whole article!
-blush-

Here are some relavent snippets:

It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people...

First, the population was dumbed down through a politicized and substandard education system based on pop culture, rather then the classics...

Then their faith in God was destroyed, until their churches, all tens of thousands of different "branches and denominations" were for the most part little more then Sunday circuses and their televangelists and top protestant mega preachers were more then happy to sell out their souls and flocks to be on the "winning" side of one pseudo Marxist politician or another. Their flocks may complain, but when explained that they would be on the "winning" side, their flocks were ever so quick to reject Christ in hopes for earthly power. Even our Holy Orthodox churches are scandalously liberalized in America.

The final collapse has come with the election of Barack Obama...
___________________________________

The 2 page article is a sad commentary on life as we know it.

New BBC Open Forum said...

About that "WARNING." She's not exaggerating.

gopher said...

All For HIM said...

"I just took a look at BBC's website. There is no trace that Jamie Parker was ever there."

apparently that's not enough for the Bellevue Elite, who want to erase any link to what happened to Jamie Parker from the web.

So much for Steve saying " bloggers don't bother me...I'm a "dead man""

New BBC Open Forum said...

I think this speaks for itself.

Britt said...

it does speak for itself. You're grasping at straws to support your agenda.

New BBC Open Forum said...

it does speak for itself.

Yep, it is what it is.

Britt, I have no agenda, only observations and opinions which I sometimes share here. I'm not trying to sell anything or change anyone's mind. I believe informed people are capable of forming their own opinions.

Do you have an agenda?

Britt said...

no, none whatsoever. You obviously have opinions on Gaines and love to provide your communtary to what he's saying. If you have a problem with the example that he gave today then you must be very sensitive or just look for things to say against him. Context is wonderful, and Gaines' example, in context, worked well.

It just does not seem like there is a ungodly issue with Gaines' example. It's not heresy, so whats the issue with it unless it is just a personal agenda against him?

New BBC Open Forum said...

I thought Gaines' example, in context, was stupid. Are we to believe that the ChemLawn guy just showed up out of the blue? Surely SG has a contract with ChemLawn to provide lawn service on a regular basis. His example makes as much sense as my neighbors, who use a lawn service to mow their yard, looking out the window and thinking, "God, the grass is getting so high. Please take it away." And then the guy shows up with his lawnmower that very day -- which he would have done regardless.

His story would have made more sense in the context of his sermon had he given an example of praying for something he really needed and having an answer to prayer come from a totally unexpected source. The ChemLawn guy showing up for his 6-week service appointment isn't an answer to prayer. It's a result of signing a contract and paying for the service.

As for his delivery of the story, I don't think there's really anything I can add.

32yrs@bbc said...

His story would have made more sense in the context of his sermon had he given an example of praying for something he really needed and having an answer to prayer come from a totally unexpected source. The ChemLawn guy showing up for his 6-week service appointment isn't an answer to prayer. It's a result of signing a contract and paying for the service.

As for his delivery of the story, I don't think there's really anything I can add.
------------------------
NASS, my thoughts exactly! Not only was the example of answered prayer strange but the sarcasm interspersed was telling. But people sit there and smile and laugh on cue and that is telling in itself.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Here's some context:

If he thinks God cares whether Gaines likes nut grass and wants nut grass dead, then Gaines is, as HE said, a Nut.

If Gaines said "I prayed that my nut grass would be taken care of, and the next day it was dead, ain't God good?", I STILL would say: NO MIRACLE.

You see, I don't believe God cares about nut grass. God in heaven is not looking to see who needs weed control.

So while at that same moment a mother was praying for her dying boy in a hospital, and her prayer went unanswered and her boy died, you think God was answering Gaines' prayer to kill nut grass?

Jesus didn't die on the cross so Steve Gaines could pray in Jesus name for his nut grass to be taken care of.

This is what makes Christians appear small-minded, petty, and arrogant - that some rich man in America thinks he had his prayers answered by God almighty to have nut grass removed by his lawn service company, from his manicured lawn, while another 1000 people starved to death in Africa, and as little boys and girls died of cancer.

Nope. Gaines had lawn service.

And by the way, just because Chem lawn showed up doesn't mean Gaines' prayers were answered. Nut grass, its pretty tough to get rid of. But I'm sure God will see to it!

BkWormGirl said...

FBC Jax Watchdog:
I couldn't agree more. I do think that God is interested in the most minute details of our life. (Knows the number of hairs on our head, etc.) However, I think that American Christians look so pitiful when we go on and on about God providing new cars, bigger houses, furniture (the dining room table) expensive dinners, a few weeds and so the list continues.

Talk to me about how God provided in the midst of no job, no income and great illness and that is a God that seems invovled to me. For the mother whose child is dying of cancer, God does offer peace that passes undestanding and He offers that child a life that is forever free of pain. Focus on that pastor's and maybe God will seem worth the time for the millions who do seek Him for their REAL life problems!

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I agree, God knows the numbers of hairs on my head....but I don't think in his grand scheme he is interested in my prayer for more hair, or less hair or straighter hair.

God knows all about Gaines' nut grass. He has it numbered. But does God really answering prayer about nut grass removal in some American's yard? Maybe he is, but I don't think so.

If Gaines actually prayed to God:

"Dear Lord, please remove my nut grass. I ask this in the name of Jesus Christ, my Savior, that you would please get rid of my nut grass."

Here is what God said:

"Uh, Dr. Gaines [I'm sure God calls these guys "Doctor"], I really don't care about that nut grass. You see, I designed nut grass. I made everything, and it is in your yard because I made it. So no, I'm not going to remove it. Besides, I blessed you with so much money that you can afford Chem Lawn. Why are you praying to me for your weed control, when you took matters into your own hands and signed a contract with Chem-Lawn last year? If you truly trusted me for your nut grass, why are you using synthetic chemicals that I did NOT make, to kill the nut grass that I DID make? Excuse me, Dr. Gaines, while I return my attention to more weighty issues. Psssst...and do me a favor...whatever you do, please do NOT tell anyone that I took care of your prayer request to kill the nut grass. That would only make you look like a fool, and make me look like some genie in a bottle. Thanks Steve-o, er, I mean Dr. Gaines"

BkWormGirl said...

Fbc jax watchdog -

Again I agree.

I guess if I were not already offended by SG I would be now. Why was he praying about weed grass instead of for those in his flock? Why wasn't he out sharing the good news of the gospel with someone? I am re-reading a book about George Muller. What a difference between worship leaders of the days gone by.

New BBC Open Forum said...

But people sit there and smile and laugh on cue and that is telling in itself.

That couple they showed wasn't laughing. The man said something to the woman, and she just stared ahead as if thinking, "What the... ?" But the young woman at the end was guffawing right on cue, and we know that's the audience Steve is trying to reach -- the under-40 (or younger) crowd. As we've seen (e.g. the intern videos), many of them are easily amused.

I can't help but be reminded of this photo that's going around cyberspace this week. It seems to be a metaphor for what's happening today, not only at Bellevue but in many churches. The "leaders" forge obliviously on while leaving those who built the church (in the physical sense) in the dust.

In case you haven't noticed, pastor, you're no spring chicken yourself. Your time is coming.

I agree with Watchdog how this example illustrates the arrogance and pettiness of these rich, spoiled megachurch pastors. A few weeks ago SG stated that when they were first married, Donna clipped grocery coupons because she was "thrifty." And he encouraged "wives" to do the same. Apparently Mrs. Gaines doesn't have any need to clip coupons today though. Some of us still have to clip coupons and maintain our own yards -- those of us who are fortunate enough to have yards, and a little nutgrass isn't something we're pretentious enough to bother God about. Oh, and in the meantime we're told to GIVE MORE MONEY because we're "a little behind for the year"! In the words of Mac Brunson... HA!!!

Here's a novel idea. If giving is down, how about the "senior pastor" leading by example and taking a pay cut and the church spending less on frivolous things like fireworks shows?

This reminds me of the same waste and arrogance we've seen with the government for years. (I'm not saying SG shouldn't use a lawn service if he's paying for it himself. It's the sense of self-importance that turns me off.) The current "cash for clunkers" program is a good example. The government (that's "us") is paying people up to $4500 to turn in, in many cases, perfectly good cars (they have to start) so the government can junk them. I've seen people turning in cars that are much newer than either of mine. How many people who need a car, i.e. people who have no car now and can't afford one or whose old clunkers barely run, could benefit by having one of these cars? I saw a story on the news this morning about charities that accept cars and fix them up for people who need them. One woman said her charity had received only two cars in the past two weeks. People are instead turning them in to the government. The arrogance of the people in "leadership" in this country as well as in many of our churches is astounding.

New BBC Open Forum said...

BWG,

I don't really like the argument "he should be praying for this instead of this." If you listened to the whole sermon, he did say he prays for a lot of different things every day, including the "flock." (Wonder if that includes those who don't agree with him? Hope those prayers aren't of an imprecatory nature!) It's none of my business what SG or anyone else prays for. The problem is him standing in the pulpit and pronouncing to a couple thousand people as well as the television audience two weeks from now that he actually prayed for God to remove the nutgrass from his yard, and as if it were a miracle from heaven, ChemLawn showed up an hour later. It kind of reminds me of the dining room furniture story. The rest of you have already made the point better than I why that is so ridiculous. Pray about your nutgrass all you want. Just don't make yourself sound "nutty" (your word) and talk about it!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Someone noticed driving down I-40 today that the ball fields at BBC took quite a beating during Friday afternoon's tornado. There are reportedly some lights, fences, and scoreboards down. I wonder, now that BBC is in need of repair, if FUMC will be helping out with a donation.

BkWormGirl said...

Nass I can see your point. And what we agree most on is that he just sounds nutty.

To be certain, today's message is, pray for the arranged and claim it as a blessing of answered prayer? This could work for me, when I put food in the slow cooker before I leave for worker. I should pray about God providing dinner and then email all my friends when I get home about the wondrous meal God provided. Hmm, but since I made it does that make me god?

Ducking before the real and holy GOD strikes me from heaven.

New BBC Open Forum said...

God knows all about Gaines' nut grass. He has it numbered.

Shoot, you stole my line!

"But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Yea, too, are the blades of nutgrass in your lawn."

Seriously, that's a pretty awesome thought, isn't it?

Dr. Bill Loney said...

nutgrass...lol

New BBC Open Forum said...

Knock it off, doc.

WishIhadknown said...

Given my experience with the particular service provider it is a miracle they showed up, but that's another story. Of course the neighbors said he did show up but only got out of his truck to stick one of those little signs in my yard. I moved on from them too.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Have you tried praying about it? Maybe the "Lemme kill your weeds" guy will show up.

WishIhadknown said...

I am afraid I must confess I failed to pray about it. What would you expect am only "trash" after all?

Dr. Bill Loney said...

You're right...I'll watch it...how about a 'Burger Madness' story?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Errr... no, but thanks anyway. Maybe a G-rated update on the latest goin's on up on Loney Mountain or your latest travels?

Hope that bad haircut grows out soon. Maybe in the meantime you could brush your back hair up over your head into a "comb forward." That seems to be the latest style, having replaced the "comb over."

son1 said...

http://www.juneteenthmemphis.org/calendhttp://www.juneteenthmemphis.org/home.htm ar.htm

do you know any detsils about the NAACP Banquat at Bellevue? See links above. Did not go as planned. I don't know any details but heard David Coombs apologized to some one.

New BBC Open Forum said...

son1,

I haven't heard anything about it. This is the correct link. (Or here should that one not work.) I was tipped off about it by someone who had read a letter to the editor in the Commercial Appeal. (It's the last letter on that page.)

I don't know why this event was held at BBC. Part of "Bellevue Lo♥es Memphis" perhaps? More like they were willing to pay handsomely to use the facilities for 4 hours. I don't recall seeing any news coverage of this. Looks like it was "mentioned" on Channel 3's Live at 9.

Not a word about it on any other news channel that I could find. Do you not find it odd that such a large gathering for such an event in, of all places, MEMPHIS, wouldn't have made it onto at least one news channel or warranted a mention in the newspaper? Steve lo♥es Memphis so much, you'd think he would have bragged about it, if not before, at least after. If it hadn't been for that letter to the editor we wouldn't have known about it.

You might try contacting one of these people if you know them. Not sure how this ties into "missions."

Juneteenth Banquet

Date: 06/12/09
Time: 06:00 PM - 10:00 PM
Department:
Missions
Contact: Judy Neal
jneal@bellevue.org

Room(s): Fellowship Hall 1 | Fellowship Hall 2 | Fellowship Hall 3

Description: Michael Ellis is in charge

Son1, please make your profile visible if you wish to comment again. Thanks.

New BBC Open Forum said...

You know, one would think, given Steve Gaines' outspoken opinions on abortion (with which I happen to totally agree), and the views of the vast majority of the members of BBC, that even giving the appearance of supporting the NAACP in any way would not be something SG or BBC would want to do. (Just Google "NAACP" and "abortion" to see what I mean.) No wonder they kept this thing so hush-hush! Can anyone say "FUMC II"?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Wonder if they'd let Planned Parenthood hold their banquet at BBC?

New BBC Open Forum said...

son1,

What do you mean "did not go as planned"? What was DC said to have apologized for?

Does anyone know how the Shelby County teachers' in-service day at BBC went Thursday? Someone who attended the first one last year (I assume this is a tradition now) said they did some skits that were in very poor taste. To clarify, the meeting, and therefore, the content of the program, was determined by the school system, not the church, but the church did "sponsor" it, taking up a special offering beforehand last year to provide goodie bags and gift cards to attract people who, in most cases, won't come back until this time next year... or until there are more handouts or freebies -- e.g. the Halloween carnival -- whichever comes first. I don't know if there was a special offering taken this year or not. I don't remember hearing anything about it.

gopher said...

son1 said...

"....David Coombs apologized to some one."

..you've never heard David Coombs apologize to the white folk at BBC, (if you don't like it you can leave, is his reply) so..

could it have been for a previous BBC era, during the R G Lee's segregation days..

Martin_Luther said...

You may have seen this where Steve Gaines' God has answered his prayer,
"killing his nutgrass"

Now with all this background and degrees (listed on the BBC website)

EDUCATION

Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.), Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Fort Worth, Texas
Major: Preaching; Minor: Evangelism

Master of Divinity (M.Div.), Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Fort Worth, Texas

Bachelor of Science (B.S.), Union University, Jackson, Tennessee

University of Tennessee at Martin, Martin, Tennessee


Steve Gaines then tells the people of Bellevue it is their fault for him
"not preaching well"


As someone has said about what is going on at Bellevue:

"Leadership IS serving.
Anything else is a dictatorship."

-

gmommy said...

Oh Good Grief. Glad the sermon I heard today was about what the Bible says and not what the pastor believes.

I Must Needs Go Home said...

What the NAACP is really about is turning minorities into soft Marxists. The implications of the NAACP philosophy is this: A black man can no longer be considered authentically black if he isn't a Marxist. A black man must believe in the power of the state over the individual. I don't know why all too many blacks, whose ancestors valiantly fought for their freedom and equal rights, are now so scared to be free. Why do they listen and vote for those who want to enslave them, albeit with meager subsidies and subpar schools rather than whips and chains? Why do you expect so little for your community? Why do you sell yourselves so cheaply? Why do blacks vote for legislators who keep abortion legal, thereby ensuring the continued holocaust on their own community? More than 13 million black babies have been slaughtered since Roe v. Wade passed. Blacks make up 12% of our population, while accounting for 35% of all abortions.


This is what NAACP is all about...and apparently Bellevue Baptist Church is too. Wake up my friends! Bellevue's fruit no longer has a sweet flavor.

Cakes said...

From the NAACP website:

Our Mission

The mission of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure the political, educational, social, and economic equality of rights of all persons and to eliminate racial hatred and racial discrimination.

Vision Statement
The vision of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure a society in which all individuals have equal rights and there is no racial hatred or racial discrimination.

Objectives
The following statement of objectives is found on the first page of the NAACP Constitution — the principal objectives of the Association shall be:

To ensure the political, educational, social, and economic equality of all citizens

To achieve equality of rights and eliminate race prejudice among the citizens of the United States

To remove all barriers of racial discrimination through democratic processes

To seek enactment and enforcement of federal, state, and local laws securing civil rights

To inform the public of the adverse effects of racial discrimination and to seek its elimination

To educate persons as to their constitutional rights and to take all lawful action to secure the exercise thereof, and to take any other lawful action in furtherance of these objectives, consistent with the NAACP's Articles of Incorporation and this Constitution.

Cakes said...

The organization was formed by (liberal) people outraged over lynchings and other crimes against African Americans. Since 1910, the history of the NAACP is inexorably woven into the struggle for civil rights itself.

Sir, you may characterize the NAACP as "soft-Marxist," but that reflects more your ideological difference, which I would characterize as "hard-boiled."

Being a liberal, I am to various antagonists, a socialist, a communist, a Marxist, working for the Gay Agenda, a jaywalker or whatever can be thrown at me.

Dr. AJ said...

Cakes,
I have followed this blog for some time and enjoyed your musings. However I do disagree with this latest one. It seems to me that since the death of MLK, things have changed within the ranks of the NAACP. I am all for civil rights, but not "special rights" or preferential treatment for anyone based on race, religion, etc. The NAACP has made a turn toward racism and socialism that is the reverse of its founders' original intent. It appears that socialism is alive and well in this country and those that do not believe it are somewhat in denial. This latest election is the result of those that think the government can run the world and provide the needs of all at the expense of those of us who have to pay for it. That mindset is going to cost us our freedoms as we know them if we are not careful. Those same freedoms that our forefathers died to protect are in danger of being obliterated in this once great nation.
As far as the NAACP mission statement goes, have you read BBC’s lately, or any other group for that matter? Just because they SAY they are promoting a particular agenda, does not mean they really ARE. Take for example “Planned Parenthood”. Is their agenda to promote the planning of families to all women? Not at all, I went to one of their facilities for a pregnancy test and there was not a word mentioned about me keeping my child, it was all about how to kill her and get someone else to pay for it. I know you are not the “norm” for the folks that visit this blog, but I do believe your heart and head are where you think they should be and I admire you for your courage. Does that make you right, imo, no. But I am basing my opinions on different quantifiers than you are. Does that make me “hard-boiled” too? Perhaps in your eyes it does, but my self-esteem is not based on what you or any body else thinks. I have to live my life in the reality that I have to stand before a just God one day and whether anyone else believes that or not does not mean it isn’t the truth. It’s just their belief, like those that believe that the NAACP is really working in the best interest of the black race. Follow the money trail...that’s the bottom line.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Their mission statement certainly sounds noble. I don't think there's anything in it that most people wouldn't agree with. It just doesn't fit with the name of the organization. If it did, the organization would be called something like NAAAP (National Association for the Advancement of All People) or NAAEAAP (National Association for the Advancement of Equality Among All People). An organization that called itself the NAAWP would be labeled racist -- and rightly so.

Junkster said...

Cakes said...
Being a liberal, I am to various antagonists, a socialist, a communist, a Marxist, working for the Gay Agenda, a jaywalker or whatever can be thrown at me.


Or Cake-walker? :)

I Must Needs Go Home said...

Unhappy 100th birthday, NAALCP


Prologue to a new hope?

Last week, President Obama was the keynote speaker at the NAACP's 100th anniversary celebration. The NAACP is the premier black civil rights organization founded by Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois and other progressives, including several whites, in 1909. Its storied history boasts of a who's who among black civil rights activists including: civil rights attorneys Thurgood Marshall, Charles Hamilton Houston, Spotswood Robinson, journalists Ida B. Wells and William E. Walling, social workers Mary White Ovington and Henry Moskowitz, just to name a few.

Conservative talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh coined the phrase "NAALCP" – National Association for the Advancement of LIBERAL Colored People." He is right. The NAALCP isn't the least bit concerned with black Republicans and has nothing but loathing and an abnormally irrational contempt for black conservatives. If you doubt me, just ask Justice Clarence Thomas how much love the NAALCP showed him during his Supreme Court nomination hearings in 1991. Or ask Judge Janice Rogers Brown who during her 2005 confirmation hearing to the 2nd Court of Appeals received only hatred and derision from the NAALCP. Both jurists refused to fashion their jurisprudence on the totalitarian cult of liberalism.

This blatant prejudice against their own people on ideological grounds belies their civil rights moniker as a nonprofit, non-partisan civil rights organization protected by its 501c3 status. In my view, the NAALCP is one of the most radical socialist organizations in America.

Shutting the NAALCP door forever

My relationship with the NAALCP goes back over 35 years ago through my stepfather (Jack Folson), who was one of the ministers of music at Greater New Mount Moriah Baptist Church in Detroit. Who was the pastor? None other than the legendary Judge Benjamin L. Hooks. He was also president of the NAALCP from 1977-92.

In the early 1980s, prior to my becoming a conservative, I was about 20 and in need of a summer job. Although Rev. Hooks turned me down from a job I wanted at the NAALCP, I hold no grudges, for I learned long ago from Bishop T.D. Jakes that not only must we thank God when He opens doors, but we need to thank God the more for shutting some doors in our life. Being rejected by Rev. Hooks and the NAALCP was one of those doors that to this day I thank God for shutting, for where would my life be right now if I were merely one of the 96 percent of my people who mindlessly voted for Barack Obama? What manner of man would I be today if I allowed my heart, mind and soul to be poisoned by the false religion of liberalism?

Thank you, God, for shutting some doors in my life.

(continued)

I Must Needs Go Home said...

The NAALCP: 100 years of infamy?

The NAALCP was born out of the progressive movement of the late 19th century. Progressivism favors a statist or egalitarian direction for economic policies (Marxism, socialism) and liberal direction for social policies (welfare state). Progressivism is a radical political and cultural movement in American history whose proponents had a fanatical belief in the verity of science and the will of secular man as having the answers to all tribulations that have plagued humanity.

Certainly, the NAACP was needed in the midst of Jim Crow discrimination and institutional racism that exists to this day, but the means they went about achieving egalitarian (as opposed to equal) rights for black people in many ways have had a diametrical, catastrophic effect on the black family that lingers to this day.

From its genesis, the NAALCP feigned itself as a civil rights organization, but in reality it is a radical socialist organization that only supports leftist politicians, socialist politics and radical liberal causes, even to the detriment of its own membership. Inimical ideas like eugenics, partial-birth abortion, welfare, anti-death penalty, anti-Second Amendment, closing down Guantanamo Bay, pro-radical environmentalism, and amnesty and health care for 30 million illegal aliens are just a sampling of their radical agenda for America.

The NAALCP is virulently anti-conservative and over time increasingly anti-Christian, although ironically, most of the NAALCP membership and leaders are churchgoers and consider themselves "Christians." Nothing in the NAALCP philosophy provides for self-help, pulling ones' self up by the bootstraps or being responsible for one's own life choices and dealing with the consequences as a responsible adult, as Du Bois' contemporary and intellectual foe, Booker T. Washington, constantly preached until his untimely death in 1915.

Epilogue to an existential despair

Two ago weeks, Obama visited slave castles of Ghana, West Africa, historically one of the most infamous places of torture and abuse on earth. Visitors say that spirits can be felt there in those dark, dank dungeons where millions of Africans over many centuries were sold into chattel slavery, in many cases by their own people.

Yet in modern times, those same spirits are still imprisoned in self-imposed dungeons of dependency, ignorance and a ghetto mentality; black minds who for generations have been poisoned by the lies of liberalism and the nihilism of envy and excessive complaining – all the while shepherded by today's highly educated oligarchy of black race merchants and poverty pimps.

The cult of liberalism is indeed a deceiving spirit, an invisible slave master whereby 96 percent of black voters, by the tens of millions, willfully chose a man who is presently shackling them in chains of a new slavery of socialism, ignorance, lies, despair and a addiction to government remedies. This insidious connection is made by many others, including a revelatory offering by Judge Janice Rogers Brown who sees the institution of slavery connected to political liberalism bequeathed to us by the civil rights movement.

And that is why I wish you an UnHappy 100th birthday, NAALCP!


Would that Steve Gaines and the Bellevue moneymasters learn a little history!

I Must Needs Go Home said...

And Cakes, the NAACP was started by radicals, largely communists and other statists.

The NAACP "emerged" in 1909, supposedly to promote equality and rights among the races. Needless to say, it has done neither. However, the formation

of this group was urged by the leading radicals of that day, among whom were Jane Addams and government school "educator" John Dewey. Other radicals were among the first officials in the organization. Among these was Oswald Garrison Villard, grandson of the infamous abolitionist, William Lloyd Garrison.

The first president of the NAACP was, strangely enough, a white man, Moorfield Story, a lawyer from Boston. Black radical WEB DuBois, who later joined the Communist Party, was the organization's first director of publicity and research, as well as editor of the group's monthly publication The Osiris. This publication gave DuBois an excellent outlet from which to pour forth all manner of racial invective against whites, supposedly in the name of "promoting equality."

According to the Biographical Dictionary of the Left, "Long tenure in office has also been characteristic of the NAACP's presidents--all white men: Moorfield Story (1910-1915), Joel Springarn (1915-1940), Arthur Springarn (1940-1966), and since 1966, Kivie Kaplan." Since the Biographical Dictionary was published in 1969, obviously some things have changed. However, it is interesting to note how long the organization had white presidents, almost as if the radicals didn't trust the blacks to take the organization in the proper direction (to the left).

WEB DuBois, one black that did hold a prominent position, was no problem

because he was already on the left. DuBois was known to have "hailed the

Russian Revolution of 1917" and he travelled to the Soviet Union in 1926 and 1936. He especially liked 'the racial attitudes of the Communists'."

In 1922 the NAACP started to receive grants from the Garland Fund, a big source of funding of Communist Party projects. Officials of the Garland Fund included Communists William Z. Foster, Benjamin Gitlow, Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, and Scott Nearing. Other prominent left-wing officials were Roger Baldwin, Sidney Hillman, and Harry F. Ward, the "Red Dean" of religion in America." The Garland Fund continued to pour money into the NAACP until around 1934. Even when the money stopped, the Communist connections continued.

"In 1938, the NAACP was represented at the World Youth Congress, a Communist enterprise. In the 1940s the NAACP was affiliated with American Youth for a Free World, the American affiliate of the World Federation of Democratic Youth, a Communist clearing house."

A most literate apologist for the NAACP was the well-known Langston Hughes. Hughes was affiliated with Communist Party projects from the mid-1920s until he passed away in 1967. In fact, in 1962, Hughes wrote a book entitled Fight for Freedom: The Story of the NAACP. In this book he stated the following:

"Attempts to label the NAACP subversive, Communist-influenced, or out and out Communist have continued for a long time." In light of the evidence available, can anyone with a brain honestly wonder why?

I Must Needs Go Home said...

The organization has, from time to time, gone through the sanitized ritual of "opposing Communism" but this has been a self-serving action designed to keep the support of those that are astute enough to see communism as a problem.

In 1946, the NAACP helped the Communist Party in one of its major political projects, the establishment of the Progressive Citizens of America—the basis for Henry Wallace's Communist-dominated Progressive Party in the 1948 presidential election. In 1953 the Communist newspaper Daily Worker recommended that Communists and labor unions "give every possible support to any and all campaigns conducted by the NAACP." One can only wonder if this strategy has changed in the intervening years.

Although the NAACP has taken several twists and turns over the years to try to "cover its six" as the military saying goes, the record of its early affinity to the Left and the affinity of the Left for the NAACP is a matter of record. And Bellevue's leadership has no business involving a church dedicated to spread of the gospel of Jesus Christ with an organization opely hostile to the goals of Christ's true church.


I pray for you, Cakes. Only Christ can fill that hole in your soul. Come to Christ, He can wash you clean, free you from bondage. I can promise you this my friend: God's wrath is as certain as His mercy. Clothe yourself in His righteousness or be eternally damned. Without Christ men are dead in their sin. Christ is the only way to life. He died for wretched sinners like me. Hebrews says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Christ was the blood sacrifice for His sheep. Through His blood my sins are forgiven forever. He gave His blood because he was able and willing-He did it out of love. I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God unto salvation! People ask the silly question what would Jesus do when they ought to be proclaiming what Jesus did on that cross.

Some may think me too harsh, but a man doesn't whisper a word of warning when the drapes are on fire. Come to Christ, He's your only hope.

Dr. AJ said...

I must needs,
Thank you for your comments and insight. Another good book to read is "The Chicago NAACP and the rise of black professional leadership", 1910-1966 By Christopher Robert Reed.
In today's socialist charged environment, you would do a great service to write your own book about it! Any Christian that is as socially in tune as you would be a very controversial figure resulting in a book that would sell like hotcakes! (No pun intended Cakes:))

New BBC Open Forum said...

Interesting new blog.

Purify the Church

Link has been added to front page.

Cakes said...

I didn’t mean to come off as antagonistic; only to suggest that language is too precious to waste on cheap and meaningless labels. It breaks my heart to see all those varied and multidimensional individuals who make up the NAACP dismissed wholesale as bunch of villains, commies, socialists and lackeys. Is John Dewey an “educator,” with the twinkles and all, the same way you are a “historian?” Check out his book How We Think, before you dump on Dewey. W.E.B. Dubois was a “radical?” I think just about any African-American intellectual in Dubois’ time would be radical, no?

Your friend Cakes is on the left, ideologically, because of the life lead and the ethos cultivated. I’m not really so affable that I like to see whole tracts of individuals unjustly marginalized by characterizations that are patently offensive. So, it’s totally cool to use the legacy of the cruel slave-owner as a metaphor for the NAACP? That’s really in poor taste—I mean, really. What’s next, broaching the Holocaust to describe Jewish politics?

The problem with this kind of language is that it marginalizes the other as evil, stupid or lazy, and ends the opportunity for dialogue. What irony, shelving a whole group of people in the name of emancipating them? Principled individuals may disagree, down to the core, and walk away friends. You cannot do so, however, if you insult someone's intelligence or dignity.

I’m not sure what I am anymore—a commie, Marxist or socialist, or all three. Now I find I’m a member of a cult. Cool. All I know is that I’m one liberal that didn’t convert to vegetarianism, so keep the red meat coming.

Cakes said...

Oh, and I think BBC is simply continuing its public relations campaign.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Oh, and I think BBC is simply continuing its public relations campaign.

I concur.

ezekiel said...

Real good video over at Lin's blog posted on August 6.

Ronald Reagan on healthcare.

Ronald Reagan on health care

New BBC Open Forum said...

In a new article on the FBC Jax Watchdog blog, William Thornton, an SBC pastor who is one of the moderators of the Baptist Life forums, is quoted:

I am just a loney voice from the SBC hinterlands...

Nah... it couldn't be, could it?

Dr. Nachos Grande' said...

sr blogleeder,

sr beel es being under el wether por eeting muy mimado boiled eggs. como el mentor por sr beel, I speek in su place. la not being him es estes hombre. no es el Southern Bautista. Sr Lonee es el Lonee Mountain Tabernaculo Felloships miembro. I ver fotos por sr beel in su powder azul traje el leisure y zapatos pleather blanco. en bakground era Sr. bigfoot. gracias por las correcction

New BBC Open Forum said...

Decirle Bill que espero que pronto se siente mejor.

gopher said...

Remember in the past how Steve Gaines bragged that while attendance is down, the Bellevue Elite were giving more monies to take up the

"slack"

So here's how the new President is going turn the screws on these types of churches that these millionaires run

"Short Version"

"Full Version"


-

TN Lizzie said...

More trouble in Florida: Bitter feud erupts at high-profile Florida church

(Could you add this graphic here?)
http://nakedpastor.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/pearlygates.jpg

New BBC Open Forum said...

Here.

LOL! I could comment but I won't right now.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Lizzie,

There was a discussion of this story on the Watchdog blog beginning here. As in the case of FBC Jax, the issues at BBC are not the same as those at Coral Ridge which seem to be almost exclusively about change, not integrity -- or the lack thereof. I could be wrong as I don't know all the facts in their case. The tactics of the "leadership" do sound familiar though.

TN Lizzie said...

From the FBC Jax blog-
Readers: if you're interested in reading the letter circulated by D. James Kennedy's daughter (Jennifer Cassidy) calling for the ouster of the new pastor of Coral Ridge Presbyterian (Ft. Lauderdale), Tullian Tchividjian, I found it at this blog:
Letter from Jennifer Cassidy

The situation at CRPC is vastly different from what I have become used to when I see the words "banned from church." I will pray for the new young Pastor to behave righteously. I wonder if seminaries prepare young men for such problems as this?

TN Lizzie said...

I just got this in an e-mail:
PLEASE watch this video from FOX news. This is the scariest takeover of our lives the government has ever tried. The Obama "Car Czar" is at work.

CLICK BELOW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAOBlqUqUZ8

From the Cash for Clunkers website: "When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and it is property of the United States government, Any and all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, DoT and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign."

=8-0

Cakes said...

TN Lizzie,

Check this out. It's just more boilerplate from Beck. He lays it out for the viewer as:

"When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and it is property of the United States government, Any and all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, DoT and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign."

The actual page says:

When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and it is property of the United States government."

"Any and all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, DoT and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign."

The omitting of that little paragraph break, Beck creates a sense of hysteria about jack-booted thugs confiscating computers and hard drives. The second paragraph regards the transaction of the registered dealer at which time he or she is logged onto the CARS database.

If Beck purposely conflated those two distinct terms in order to provoke a misconception, then that is truly a shame.

Look at this article about Beck's piece.

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/08/cars-gov-terms-service

New BBC Open Forum said...

When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and it is property of the United States government.

Paragraph break or not, that's still what it says. {shrug}

The seizure of the personal and private information stored on your computer through a one-sided click-through terms of service is not “conscionable” as lawyers say, and would not be enforceable even if the cars.gov website was capable of doing it, which we seriously doubt.

I can think of a number of "not conscionable" things that our government has done, but I, too, think Glenn Beck can be "over the top" at times. However, let's remember this is the same White House that set up a "hotline" for people to report "fishy" e-mails they've received about the government healthcare plan. Decide for yourself what, if any, the implications of all this might be.

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