Sunday, August 05, 2007

Sign It or Yer Out!


At a recent coaches' meeting BBC's volunteer coaches were given the following documents to fill out and sign and told that it would be mandatory if they wished to continue coaching.

The
first document includes the Basic Application, the Leadership Covenant, a Background Information sheet, and a Volunteer Authorization/Consent & Release form. It is obvious from the wording of the "Leadership Covenant" that it was written for use with Sunday School teachers and other workers.

The
second document includes the Coaches Covenant and a sheet concerning Biblical Peacemaking.

Finally, attached was a
copy of A Summary of Your Rights Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Can we assume this means there will be credit checks, too?

In this day and age I don't think anyone who's going to work with minors should object to a criminal background check, but the "loyalty oath" and checking members' giving records is too much. The latter has already been happening for some time. People have already been "called on the carpet" for not giving as much as Steve Gaines thought they should. I wonder if it's ever occurred to him that some people drop cash in the collection plate. So how does he know people aren't tithing 10%? And even if he knows how much someone gives, how does he know how much someone makes? They've got your Social Security number and a signed release to do what? Check with your bank?

Of all the red flags that were raised as I read through these documents (and they were legion), the one that stood out the most was this one:

"I waive any right that I may have to inspect references provided on my behalf."

So if a background check shows something in someone's past that is questionable, and the person questions it, he is waiving his right to ever see the information? Think about the implications of that!

Recent numbers I saw revealed that the number of Sunday School classes at BBC for 8th through 12th graders for the coming year has been reduced from 126 to 75. That's a decrease of 40% and a loss of 102 teachers (two per class). At that time they were still short 30 teachers or about 20% of the number needed. Perhaps if this is accurate, there has been a similar reduction in the number of youth participating in sports. So maybe by requiring the coaches to sign these covenants and other agreements they're weeding out the "dissenters" while reducing the staff to the actual number of coaches needed. It would certainly ensure that only the "loyal" remain.

This comment was left by "junkster" in this thread and deserves highlighting:

From the BBC Volunteer Application, last page (Volunteer Authorization/Consent & Release):

I FURTHER AUTHORIZE ALL GOVERNMENTAL, LAW ENFORCEMENT, LICENSE AND RECORD-KEEPING AGENCIES AND ANY OTHER SOURCE TO PROVIDE ALL INFORMATION REQUESTED WITH RESPECT TO MY BACKGROUND, INCLUDING CRIMINAL RECORDS, TO BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH AND/OR ITS AGENT, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO PROTECT MY MINISTRY AND/OR BLUE LINE INVESTIGATION.

Note the words "record keeping agencies and any other source." Signing this form authorizes BBC to do a credit/financial check. From such checks it is easy to determine one's income, which can then be used to check tithing records (assuming donations are not given anonymously, which they usually aren't, so people can claim them as charitable donations on their tax deductions.)

But even scarier is that signing this would authorize BBC to collect background information from any source, including, in theory, your school records, traffic tickets, video rentals, library records, medical history, psychological/psychiatric history, etc. I doubt that just because I signed a church document my doctors would share my medical records with my church without checking with me first, but my point is that, legally speaking, by signing that document I'd be authorizing pretty much anything. It would not be wise or prudent to sign that sort of release, for a church or for anyone.


Sunday School teachers, staff members, ushers, choir and orchestra members, and... déjà vu, deacons... all beware. Your day is coming! Choose you this day whom you will serve!

626 comments:

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johnthebaptist said...

The thing that I have been thinking about is this: Does anyone know how many times Steve tells the congregation that "God is in this place" or "Spirit is in this place" ?

Funny, I don't ever remember Dr. Rogers saying anything like that. You just knew God was there be- cause the Spirit drew you into worship. Jesus was the focus of the whole worship service.

EVERYTHING FROM THE PRAYING TO THE MUSIC TO THE PREACHING POINTED YOU TO JESUS!!!

That is why the masses came. That is why thousands were saved and thousands more ministered to.

THAT IS WHY GOD BLESSED BELLEVUE AND HIS HAND WAS ON BELLEVUE!

The bible says in John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

All you have now is the Jamie Parker show and the bible according to Steve and Donna.

Hey Steve, with all the thousands of people you ran off, did you notice that the most important One is gone too?

concernedSBCer said...

JTB said: "Hey Steve, with all the thousands of people you ran off, did you notice that the most important One is gone too?"

Yuri: That's why. It's not about a building; it's about who's there.

amazed said...

Mr. Yancy: My you get up early. To answer your question about why you should leave BBC, the place is no longer a place to worship. It is no longer the BBC that has stood for many many years. There is a verse in the Bible about "shaking the dust off your feet as you leave" which seems to be taylor made for the BBC situation.

allofgrace said...

Then a verse was used from the New American Standard Bible—
1 Corinthians 9:23: I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. (all things is a very broad phrase which leaves room for anything in some people's mind).


Without even knowing the Greek, most people could read this verse and know what Paul is saying...taken from this translation it says to me that Paul is saying that whatever he does, he does for the sake of the gospel. Which is right in line with other statements Paul made such as: "..to live is Christ, to die is gain"..."woe to me if I do not preach the gospel". If changing to suit the lost masses is the intent, then one could justify anything...I became a bank robber to get money to advance the gospel...and so I could relate better to bank robbers, and reach them with the gospel.

MOM4 said...

"Hey Steve, with all the thousands of people you ran off, did you notice that the most important One is gone too?"

What an indictment on a ministry!

Can you imagine the consequence when he finally faces our Lord?

Jeremiah 23
The Branch of Righteousness
1 “Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!” says the LORD. 2 Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel against the shepherds who feed My people: “You have scattered My flock, driven them away, and not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your doings,” says the LORD. 3 “But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. 4 I will set up shepherds over them who will feed them; and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, nor shall they be lacking,” says the LORD.

concernedSBCer said...

And according to what I am hearing, the leadership has said another 1500-1600 need to go before the rebuilding can begin.

Unbelievable.

ezekiel said...

Yanci wrote,
"I just believe that with all that as gone on so many are put on the defensive in respect to the current administration. It was said on Sunday about 3 weeks ago "that if you know the gospel you are free indeed." This statement could be misleading to some and it is not what the Bible said. John 8:36 (KJV) says "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." There is a difference in these two statements. Also there may be many who know the gospel and know that it is true and still go to hell because they decide not to make Christ their Lord and follow Him. "

See..There is the problem...See how subtle it is...this teaching from a false prophet. Many people know the Gopsel...many have heard it preached...or have they?

2 Thessalonians 1:8
He will punish those who do not know God and do not ***obey*** the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 (in Context) 2 Thessalonians 1 (Whole Chapter)

1 Peter 4:17
For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not ***obey*** the gospel of God?
1 Peter 4:16-18 (in Context) 1 Peter 4 (Whole Chapter)

Satan know scriptures as well. The difference is in the obeying.....

For all you folks planning on staying....you are warned. You had better have a copy of the Gospel and study it well. The version you are getting from the pulpit will lead you to hell.

Rev 22: 6And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.

7"And behold, I am coming quickly Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book."

8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

9But he said to me, "Do not do that I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

The Final Message

10And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
11"Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

12"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

Knowing it and living it are two totally different things. Where are you if you don't even know it?

When you think of missions and get all teary eyed ....remember that the biggest mission field that most of us will encounter is probably sitting next to you in church this Sunday.

johnthebaptist said...

I thought this was a wonderful devotional from Dr. Rogers & LWF


Daily Devotional from Love Worth Finding Ministries

AUGUST 9

BIBLE MEDITATION:
"And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush." Exodus 3:2

DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT:
Major Ian Thomas has imagined Moses saying something like this when he encountered God in the burning bush, "Would you look at that bush? It just keeps on burning for God. I wish my life could burn for God like that and keep on burning." Then Major Thomas imagined God replying, "Moses, you think this bush is so wonderful? Do you see that bush over there? I could do the same thing with it. Moses, it's not the bush; it's God in the bush. Any old bush will do." It's not you! It's not me! We are only the vessels of God's anointing. As you surrender yourself to God today, He will fill you and use you for His glory.

ACTION POINT:
Surrender yourself to God today. And as you do, He will use you. Allow His flame to burn brightly for all to see.

amazed said...

Folks, please remember this. During the last few years of the reign of Dr. Rogers, the out flow of members was almost as great as the inflow. Now the numbers leaving far out weigh those joining. The great leadership see this trend reversing as soon as all the riff raff are gone.

New BBC Open Forum said...

allofgrace wrote:

"I became a bank robber to get money to advance the gospel...and so I could relate better to bank robbers, and reach them with the gospel."

Dialing 5-2-8-C-A-S-H. "Yes, that's right. A-L-L-O-F-G-R-A-C-E. Carries a Bible.... "

New BBC Open Forum said...

amazed wrote:

"During the last few years of the reign of Dr. Rogers... "

Couldn't you have found a better choice of words? I doubt many people considered him a king or ruler.

It's interesting that MD was quoted as saying BBC was a "dying church" during Dr. Rogers' last few years here. Wonder what he'd call it now?

Junkster said...

amazed said...
Folks, please remember this. During the last few years of the reign of Dr. Rogers, the out flow of members was almost as great as the inflow.

I don't know if the numbers in and out were about the same (though it wouldn't suprize me ... many churches of large size have that sort of problem). But I think the word "reign" (as in the rulership of a King) in reference to a pastor might be more appropriate for SG than for AR.

Junkster said...

NASS,
GMTA ASDO!

amazed said...

junkster: Yep I agree, the term "reign" does fit better with the current resident POTENTATE////.

amazed said...

All: Reign also means to have dominance or sway and to prevail. Does anyone doubt that Dr. Rogers prevailed for many years at both BBC and the SBC?

johnthebaptist said...

amazed said...
Folks, please remember this. During the last few years of the reign of Dr. Rogers, the out flow of members was almost as great as the inflow. Now the numbers leaving far out weigh those joining. The great leadership see this trend reversing as soon as all the riff raff are gone.


Reply: ALL mega churches have high turnover in members. That is a documented fact. When I was in the singles department at the midtown location, the singles dept. looked different almost every month with all the joining and leaving.

That happens for various reasons but usually because there is little accountability for members in large churches. Especially if they don't attend Sunday School. Yes I said Sunday School! It isn't bible fellowship. You don't fellowship with the bible, you study it! : )

It really doesn't matter who is in the pulpit in large churches, there is high turn over in members.

Of course, the exception is Steve. He is intentionally running people off but that is a different matter to be handled by his Maker.

Junkster said...

johnthebaptist said...
Yes I said Sunday School! It isn't bible fellowship. You don't fellowship with the bible, you study it! : )

You also don't school Sundays, you watch football on them!

New BBC Open Forum said...

amazed,

You are correct that's one definition of the word. It's just not the usual definition, and it has a certain negative connotation when applied to a pastor IMO.

johnthebaptist said...

junkster said....

You also don't school Sundays, you watch football on them


Reply: Hence, this is why we have shallow, transit members.

Lin said...

1 Corinthians 9:23: I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. (all things is a very broad phrase which leaves room for anything in some people's mind).

Without even knowing the Greek, most people could read this verse and know what Paul is saying...taken from this translation it says to me that Paul is saying that whatever he does, he does for the sake of the gospel. Which is right in line with other statements Paul made such as: "..to live is Christ, to die is gain"..."woe to me if I do not preach the gospel". If changing to suit the lost masses is the intent, then one could justify anything...I became a bank robber to get money to advance the gospel...and so I could relate better to bank robbers, and reach them with the gospel.

8:11 AM, August 09, 2007

Thanks AOG. The entire seeker/emergent churches are built on the false teaching of this scripture and the Mars Hill verses in Acts 17. It is a subtle twisting of the real truth.

concernedSBCer said...

I think junk was making a joke....... :)

However, for some reason I like "Sunday School" because it is school on Sundays...school to learn about God, and His Word. People have forgotten what it used to be like......scripture memorization every week (yes, in Sunday School!).....truly studying.... several entire generations have no idea of church history or the foundations of our faith. They can tell you about "application" instead.

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Last night, I pulled out our copy of "By His Grace and For His Glory: Celebrating a century with Bellevue Baptist Church," from 2003.

I wept as I looked at the pictures of the little one-room chapel started by Central Baptist Church in 1903.

I wept as I read Peggy Perkins quoted on page 41 saying, "When I was growing up, I never doubted one time that Bellevue was solid on the Word. If I learned it at Bellevue, I knew it was true."

At 5:32 this morning, Yuri G. Yancy wrote, "It seems that the messages preached [at BBC today] have no depth. We just skim the top and leave the rest to everyone's imagination which is not good.

I don't want to pick apart everything that is said, but it is getting very hard to continue, but I don't want to leave my church home either. Why should I?
"

Methinks Yuri answered the question before it was even asked. But if that is not enough, here are some words from some of our former Pastors:

Dr. Robert G. Lee:
"To take Jesus out of a sermon is like taking heat out of fire, melody out of music, numbers out of mathematics, fact out of history, fiction out of literature, brains out of the skull and expecting intelligence, and blood out of the body and expecting health."

Dr. Ramsey Pollard:
"I believe in the Bible and unashamedly preach fundamental doctrines of the Word. In current world turmoil, the churches will continue to come through. Those that remain true and keep the fires of evangelism burning will live."

Dr. Adrian Rogers:
"Bellevue Baptist Church exists for the purpose of * Magnifying Jesus through worship and the Word, * Moving believers in Jesus toward maturity and ministry, and * Making Jesus known to our neighbors and the nation."

And I can't leave out these words from Dr. Stephen Olford, in the section about our church members reading/reciting the entire New Testament in the sanctuary on New Year's Eve 1999 . As you read, can you hear his voice? :o)
"I thank God for the Bellevue Baptist Church pulpit and God's man who stands behind it. This pulpit sounds forth the exposition of God's inerrant and sufficient Word for the salvation of the sinner and sanctification of the saint. In a day of shallow preaching across our land, I praise God for a pulpit that proclaims the Word of TRUTH with faithfulness, fearlessness, and fervency under the anointing of the Holy Spirit."

The Bellevue Baptist Church about which these men spoke is dead. Those of us who are parts of the Body of Christ which once was Bellevue, have left the building.

Why? Because we can't stay where Christ isn't glorified.

But we aren’t all scattered. Some of us are praying about a new church. Would you join in praying about it? I sense a great potential among those of us who refuse to ignore the TRUTH in God’s Word…

Just sayin’

johnthebaptist said...

concernedSBCer said...
I think junk was making a joke....... :)


Reply: I know he was making a joke. The sad part is, he is right. Watching football is more important to a lot of people than studying the bible or worshipping God.

concernedSBCer said...

The twisting of scripture has become commonplace. Everything is taken out of context to fit each certain situation.

When my husband left me and our 4 kids, after 17 years of marriage, the verse he used to rationalize was Matthew 19:29 "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."

If anyone can explain that to me, I'd appreciate it........

concernedSBCer said...

JTB: You are so right.

New BBC Open Forum said...

concernedsbcer wrote:

"When my husband left me and our 4 kids, after 17 years of marriage, the verse he used to rationalize was Matthew 19:29 'And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.'"

Huh? He's saying he left you for Jesus? Wow. That's a new one.

He might be right about one thing though. I have a feeling he'll definitely receive "an hundredfold." We do tend to reap what we sow -- eventually.

Junkster said...

concernedSBCer said...
The twisting of scripture has become commonplace. Everything is taken out of context to fit each certain situation.

When my husband left me and our 4 kids, after 17 years of marriage, the verse he used to rationalize was Matthew 19:29 "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."

If anyone can explain that to me, I'd appreciate it........


You already explained it in your first paragraph ... just more twisting Scripture in an attempt to justify what he wanted to do. So sorry you went through that, and that he would compund the pain by trying to make it sound like he was doing something good.

gopher said...

After last nights funnies(ha ha), here are some others, remembering "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine" (Proverbs 17:22)

The new Steve Gaines tithe checker:

here
(disclaimer: lottery not endorsed)

After learning how Steve Gaines gets his meals,car,clothes,travel,etc. paid for, here's the other side of the coin :

here


Steve Gaines, as God's angel taking care of Bellevue members

here
here

Share and Share alike:

here

eprov said...

Does there have to be a 'large turnover in members' with a new pastor? I don't think so. It has to do with the skill and objective of leadership. If this premise were so, we would assume that a change in CEO of a large corporation would see a decline in market efficiency or impact. If the pulpit committee really understood the mandate, they would have ensured a skilled, effective, mature preacher to assume the position. They did NOT. There was another agenda and it continues.

ezekiel said...

All this talk of leaving, getting run off and saints brought this to mind this morning. There is a reason the "rif raf" are being run off or worn out...here it is.

Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

7:22 until the ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High, and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all the kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

7:24 And as for the ten horns, out of this kingdom shall ten kings arise: and another shall arise after them; and he shall be diverse from the former, and he shall put down three kings.

7:25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time.

7:26 But the judgment shall be set, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High: his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Folks are not leaving because SG is preaching hell fire and damnation, repentance and turning back to God.

They are leaving because he is preaching submission to SG...over and over and over...Wearing out the saints...

You can bet that you won't want any part of what he intends to build after they are gone...

The score may well be 100-0 in SG's favor, but we still win in the end...:)

continuallyamazed said...

I did not think that I could be surprised by anything anymore, but I am. We all must realize, BBC of June 2004 and before, is gone. It will never be again. I don't believe anyone, not anyone, wanted BBC to stay the same. If anything, we were all taught that to stay the same was to actually go backwards (sit and sour). What BBC is today, is all about "feel good religion". There are no consequences for sin. It's a church that does lip-service to the Gospel, but there's no deep teaching of living that Gospel and there's no accountability. Even for those still trying, you need to realize that people in general follow leader's actions, and not words, (the old "do as I said, not as I do" mentality).
My husband and I just saw the new ad for BBC night before last, and then again last night. Remember the motto used to be "A family of friends and a friend for families (or something close). Notice the add says "A family of friends". Did you notice there were no children present? Where were the seniors saints represented? Where were the youth? In our opinion, BBC's leadership has decided to "target" a certain "age", "look", a certain "genre" of people. BBC is no longer about being a church for all people, a church that preaches Jesus, sin, hell, fire & brimstone, judgement & mercy, consequences. They preach Jesus and how good He is and nothing about the judgement of our sin. Nor do they preach any consequences. You can't preach consequences and draw people to church or at least that's what many believe anymore. Somehow, it's been decided (not just BBC) that the Holy Spirit is no longer enough, that we have to help Him draw people to church; that we need to just dismiss sin, lessen the seriousness of sin, so that people will come to church, then we'll get them saved. (If people don't really understand the seriousness of sin and the consequence of sin, will they truly understand salvation? Just a question.) My heart hurts that we have so cheapened the death of Jesus on the Cross. We have cheapened the consequences of sin. We have spit in the face of God's Holiness and His love towards us when we dismiss sin by calling it something else, by downplaying sin, by not recognizing nor preaching against sin. If salvation is only about "feeling good" and "no consequences for actions, words, and deeds, then the Bible is FULL OF LOST PEOPLE, with Paul being the biggest loser of all. Salvation is not about me "feeling good" all the time, nor is it about never having consequences. I don't judge my salvation by my emotions. My salvation is based on faith in Jesus Christ alone. When I sin, I have consequence, just as when my children disobey they have consequences, and YES, IT HURTS SOMETIMES! The church has so bought into the world "you live your life and I'll live mine and we'll all get along!" The world says, "don't judge me and I won't judge you." The church now does the same. The world says "well noone will ever really be qualified, but that's okay, we're all just doing the best we can." The church says "well the Bible is really only a guidebook, no one really measures up to Jesus, so just do the best you can and it will be alright." WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! The Bible says all my good "works are a filthy rags!" "With God nothing is impossible!" "Not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit saith the LORD!" I can live the Christian life successfully when I totally surrender to the Holy Spirit in every area, every detail of my life. The world teaches us to compartmentalize our lives, the church is doing the same teaching. The Word teaches that we are to be the same everywhere we are and with everyone we meet. O that we lived transparent lives before men that they would see Jesus in us.
My family and I have found a church where the pastor is a man of God, who is a man of integrity, who is a humble shepherd, who loves us, who loves his people, who is honest. He preached not to long ago about something that occurred in his own life, a lie, more of a lie of omission, than actual commission, but really, a lie none the less (really most of us would have called it a small thing, a little white lie, a no big deal thing). This pastor said the Holy Spirit immediately spoke to him. The pastor said he spoke the truth to the person, and things were made clearer. My teenagers still talk about this. They were just telling their grandmother about it again this weekend. The sermon was over 2 months ago. This pastor is not afraid to be transparent with his sheep. My kids needed that, and so did I. Our church is not perfect, but we love the Lord and we seek to honor Him in all things. Not everyone agrees with everything all the time, but we all agree, ALL THE TIME, that we are to GLORIFY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IN ALL THAT WE DO AND SAY ALL THE TIME! Yes, that means sin is called sin and consequences are preached. But it also means, that God's grace and mercy are preached as well as His amazing "love towards us, while we were yet sinners."
I pray that each of you find the church God has called you to and that you worship with all your heart, soul, and mind, and that you begin serving where He has placed you. I pray that you each find your place of worship soon. The Bible-believing, Jesus Christ preaching church of BBC is gone! I'm not worried about people at BBC "rejoicing" because I'm gone. I'm rejoicing that God is so much bigger than BBC and the Body of Christ is so much larger than BBC. He had a place for us, He has a place for you too!
p.s.
If you're still at BBC still trying to stop the freefall. Stop. It is what it is and God will judge. BBC no longer exists.

amazed said...

All: Its good to see someone use the word "Sunday School" instead of bible fellowship. The small friendly classes were the glue that held BBC together for a long time. Then much larger co-ed classes became the norm and a class became another preaching session. No input from the class members, just sit and listen.

continuallyamazed said...

I would also like to address SOTL's question earlier ( not sure if it was this topic or the last one) about the youth leaders and explaining to your youth why the leaders are falling for the junk?

My teenagers got a good dose of the leaders when leaders started telling other kids my teenagers were gone (this was BEFORE we left). My kids were getting bombarded every service. We had missed 2x, when this started. The youth minister was involved in this. The other kids and leaders were just following the actions of their own leader. Why did this happen? B/C we were very vocal about the handling of the PW situation. We didn't go out "running ou mouths" but when asked "what do you think" we spoke the truth with Biblical principle backing up our words. The "leadership" didn't like our truth, so they went after our kids first. That's okay, we just kept taking our kids back to the Bible and what it had to say. My kids were ostrasized, and shunned.
But oh how MARVELOUS AND WONDERFUL AND AWESOME IS OUR GOD!!!

He place us in a church where our kids were immediately accepted into the youth group. They've had their friends multiplied 5x over what they lost at BBC. My children have leaders and adults who love on them, who teach them truth, and hold them accountable BIBLICALLY. God is so good! He blessed my kids for being obedient to mom and dad in heart and attitude and mind. It wasn't easy, it hurt, and it was full of sorrow. BUT THE GRACE AND MERCY BESTOWED UPON THEM has been more than I could ever hope for or imagine. As a mom, my heart was breaking for my kids, but God knew more than I did, and He gave more than I could ask for just for them.

Keep taking you kids back to the Word. Keep reminding them that each person stands alone before God. Each person will answer all by him/herself for his actions, words, and deed. He won't get to have someone there to help him.

Those adults, especially the leaders, who have said and taught one thing to kids, but done another, will answer mightily before God. If God has "soft spots" then I'd say children were one of those softspots. We'd all better be careful how we teach and treat children, and we'd better make sure it all lines up with the Word of God!!!

concernedSBCer said...

Junk: Thanks. God is faithful. He is Husband to the husbandless and Father to the fatherless, just as He has promised.

Even when His sheep are beaten, He is still there, taking care of them. Isn't that comforting? He keeps every promise He ever made.

gopher said...

continuallyamazed said...
"My family and I have found a church where the pastor is a man of God, who is a man of integrity, who is a humble shepherd, who loves us, who loves his people, who is honest."

People said this of PW for years.

Steve Gaines also talks a good line to visitors / new members.

So please share how you are so certain about any minister as I'm gun shy at this point.

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Dear concernedsbcer,
The man who left you would be very comfortable at BBC today. He conveniently took his "proof-text" out of context. He chose to quote Matthew 19:29 alone. Sse it here in context:

28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And everyone [of you who have followed me] who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

And the hard-hearted, confused man chopped verses 3 through 11 out altogether. Verses 8 and 9 probably stuck in his craw. "Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

If he wants me to play his game, I could ask him why the Bible clearly states that "there is no God."

Oh, yeah, there are those preceeding 7 words..."The fool has said in his heart..."\

((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))) and Brownies covered with Hershey's Hugs and Kisses: [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O]

Word Verification: drwaha

johnthebaptist said...

tn_Lizzie2000 said....

Brownies covered with Hershey's Hugs and Kisses: [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O] [X] [O]



Reply: As the Geico caveman so wisely said, " Yes I have a reply, aaaaaa what?

tn_lizzie2000 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tn_lizzie2000 said...

**I deleted and reposted, to add a smiley face at the end. It was meant as a friendly reply!

johnthebaptist said: As the Geico caveman so wisely said, "Yes I have a reply, aaaaaa what?

I reply: You are a man.
I speak the language of chocolate to a wounded woman.

I was trying to console her with the best known physical remedy - chocolate. Brownies are already chocolate. The X's and O's (Kisses and Hugs) on top just add MORE chocolate. And they're easy to type.

Therefore, [X] and [O] are my attempt at expressing Christian love via a computer keyboard.

*sigh*

Men! :o)

concernedSBCer said...

Lizzie: I got it.

Thank you.

:)

oc said...

lizzie said

I reply: You are a man.
and
Men! :o)

oc says:
uh, miss lizzie, I understood the 'chocolate comfort' reference. What does that make me?

Just askin'.
oc.

Lin said...

"So please share how you are so certain about any minister as I'm gun shy at this point."

That is a GREAT place to be!! Get deeply in the Word and pray for wisdom and discernment so you can never be led astray. Be a Berean. Know the truth of the Word and let the Holy Spirit teach you. The Word can only be understood properly in total context. And never leave it up to someone else to teach your kids!!

oc said...

lizzie said, in part:
If he wants me to play his game,

oc says:
I would love him to play my game.
Just sayin'.
oc.

tn_lizzie2000 said...

oc says:
uh, miss lizzie, I understood the 'chocolate comfort' reference. What does that make me?

OC, that makes you my friend!

:o)

P.S. You should have mail...

oc said...

lizzie,
I haven't recieved your mail.

larry said...

concerned:
When my husband left me and our 4 kids, after 17 years of marriage, the verse he used to rationalize was Matthew 19:29 "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."


Concerned,

Your story reminds me of a man who divorced his wife and then said that he couldn't reconcile with her because the Bible said that the divorce made her an adulteress.

The point of that particular passage is the willingness to sacrifice something of great personal value for the kingdom without expecting anything in return.

Peter wanted to know what was in it for him since he had given up so much. Jesus answered that there would be a great reward having to do with future status, but not to strive for it because many who are first will be last and many who are last will be first.

And unfortunately for your ex-husband, if he really based his decision on Matthew 19:29 (which he obviously did not!) he made a bad choice. The 'or wife' is generally believed to have been included in Matthew by a scribal error. The majority of the manuscripts that have been found don't include it.

This is how a few of the modern translations render it:

(NASB)
"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.

(NIV)
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

(NLT)
And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or property, for my sake, will receive a hundred times as much in return and will inherit eternal life.

oc said...

Lizzie,
ok. Got your mail. Thanks. :)

New BBC Open Forum said...

It seems in spite of numerous reports that Ken Reich was going to GBC as their assistant minister of music, he reportedly isn't going to GBC now after all. In spite of talk among the youth for the past month about how much they're going to miss him and some of them attending a "going away" party for him last weekend, they're now saying it was really a party for the seniors and that Ken is staying put at BBC for now. I have no idea of the reason(s) for the change in plans and would ask that commenters not speculate about the possible reasons either.

Lin said...

Concernedsbcer,

Too bad he did not let this verse guide his horrible decision:


1 Timothy 5:

8But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Here is what the word 'provide' means

pronoeō
pron-o-eh'-o
... to consider in advance, that is, look out for beforehand (active voice by way of maintenance for others; middle voice by way of circumspection for oneself): - provide (for).

oc said...

concernedsbcer: I've seen the definitions and descriptions regarding the one who hurt you and yours.

Let me add, Webster.
moron: foolish, 1. an adult mentally equal to a child between 8 and 12 years old. 2.a very foolish or stupid person.

And the greek word for moron, - moros. foolishness, stupidity, often denotes one without morals, ie godless.

Let me add oc's definition:

Punk. And several other descriptives which would have me banned.

Sorry for your pain.

Just sayin'.
oc.

gmommy said...

continually amazed,

Please don't hold back...tell us which church!
We have to be the "family of friends" and keep each other informed about good church options.


My son said 2 interesting things to me today.....
He came in the house and said....
mom, have you seen that commercial for BBC??? (I hadn't told him I have made smirky remarks on the blog when I see them)
He said...
It makes me sick!...SG is totally fake!

He also said it was sad that there was a church on every corner like the Walgreens stores ...but very few actual choices.

I still say Sunday School and never switched....couldn't believe how easy it was for everyone to make that change.
I am still very close to the friends I made in the SS class I was in when my kids were young.

BUT! I am glad that at RO,the SS classes are not separated by age or gender or marital status...and not to get people social.

Concernedsbcer,
Sweet to see the "hugs" you got today from our blog friends!:)

Lynn said...

Not to sound the alarm any louder as it already is....but Warrenism isn't the only junk seeping into churches....SCIENTOLOGY is also seeping into the churchs!!!!

Scientology Seeps Into Other Faiths

sheeplessatbbc said...

continuallyamazed said...

My family and I have found a church where the pastor is a man of God, who is a man of integrity, who is a humble shepherd, who loves us, who loves his people, who is honest.


Could you possible share with us the name of this church, many of us are still searching. Thanks.

concernedSBCer said...

From the scientology article: "He says he's seen nothing but good come of it: a higher success rate, saved lives and his own strengthened faith."

How can you have saved lives when scientology does not teach about Jesus?

WHY, oh WHY are all these pastors using anything and everything EXCEPT scripture???

oc said...

concernedsbcer says:

WHY, oh WHY are all these pastors using anything and everything EXCEPT scripture???

oc says:
Because Scripture requires accountability.

Just sayin'.
oc.

Becky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
concernedSBCer said...

And they think it's hard to have the faith to believe the Bible.....

Good grief.

Becky said...

Churchmouse said...

Here is some information about scientology that blew my socks off.
It is from an online "pamphlet."

* * *

Who is Xenu?

I’m going to tell you a story. Are you sitting comfortably? Right, then I’ll begin.

Once upon a time (75 million years ago to be more precise) there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu. Xenu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy including our own planet Earth, except in those days it was called Teegeeack.


Now Xenu had a problem. All of the 76 planets he controlled were over-populated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of all the overpopulation so he had a plan.

Xenu took over complete control with the help of renegades to defeat the good people and the Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists he called in billions of people for income tax inspections where they were instead given injections of alcohol and glycol mixed to paralyse them. Then they were put into space planes that looked exactly like DC8s (except they had rocket motors instead of propellers).

These DC8 space planes then flew to planet Earth where the paralysed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes in their hundreds of billions. When they had finished stacking them around then H-bombs were lowered into the volcanoes. Xenu then detonated all the H-bombs at the same time and everyone was killed.

The story doesn’t end there though. Since everyone has a soul (called a “thetan” in this story) then you have to trick souls into not coming back again. So while the hundreds of billions of souls were being blown around by the nuclear winds he had special electronic traps that caught all the souls in electronic beams (the electronic beams were sticky like fly-paper).

After he had captured all these souls he had them packed into boxes and taken to a few huge cinemas. There all the souls had to spend days watching special 3D motion pictures that told them what life should be like and many confusing things. In this film they were shown false pictures and told they were God, The Devil and Christ. In the story this process is called “implanting”.

When the films ended and the souls left the cinema these souls started to stick together because since they had all seen the same film they thought they were the same people. They clustered in groups of a few thousand. Now because there were only a few living bodies left they stayed as clusters and inhabited these bodies.

As for Xenu, the Loyal Officers finally overthrew him and they locked him away in a mountain on one of the planets. He is kept in by a force-field powered by an eternal battery and Xenu is still alive today.

That is the end of the story. And so today everyone is full of these clusters of souls called “body thetans”. And if we are to be a free soul then we have to remove all these “body thetans” and pay lots of money to do so. And the only reason people believe in God and Christ was because it was in the film their body thetans saw 75 million years ago.

http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.doc

larry said...

SCIENTOLOGY is also seeping into the churchs!!!!

Lynn, this article is misleading. The "Glorious Church of God in Christ" is NOT a Christian denomination in any way.

They are WAY out there. If it tells you anything, were they to embrace scientology they'd actually be a step closer to Christian orthodoxy (with many, many miles to go yet). They got most of their information by way of a contemporary interview with the apostle Paul, not the Bible. Nuff said.

Scientology is not a threat to our faith. It's a joke. Mormonism and pantheism are much greater dangers, with over 20 million believers worldwide (there are 16 million southern Baptists).

And yet bizarre as it is, Scientology is more rational than Mormonism.

oc said...

Larry said:
And yet bizarre as it is, Scientology is more rational than Mormonism.

oc says:
yep. If Mormons knew what they are supposed to believe, they would fly to another planet.
Just sayin'.
oc.

BTW. Nice name.

concernedSBCer said...

Dear Bloggers: I didn't mean to hijack the thread today. The point I was making is that everywhere scripture is being thrown around loosly to make it mean whatever people want it to mean at that given time. People are able to do this because they don't know scripture, those they are talking to don't know scripture, and no one wants to call anyone else to accountability because we mustn't judge anyone. Hog Wash! (Apologies to all you Razorback fans out there)

oc said...

concernedsbcer said:
Hog Wash! (Apologies to all you Razorback fans out there)

oc says:
Suuuuuuheeeeeeeeey!!! Grunt, grunt, grunt!!!!

Lynn said...

If I see that BBC ad one more time....I'm gonna take the tv and throw it out the window!

concernedSBCer said...

Now, now Lynn......breathe....

Junkster said...

Lynn said...
If I see that BBC ad one more time....I'm gonna take the tv and throw it out the window!

concernedSBCer said...
Now, now Lynn......breathe....

And turn off the TV ...

concernedSBCer said...

Yeah....don't ruin a perfectly good TV.

gmommy said...

junk,
you crack me up!

JTB,
Are you coming to our clandestine (??) meeting this time??

C SBCer,
sent you a silly email I wish I could tell on the blog:)

Lynn said...

Junkster said...

Lynn said...
If I see that BBC ad one more time....I'm gonna take the tv and throw it out the window!

concernedSBCer said...
Now, now Lynn......breathe....

And turn off the TV ...

10:40 PM, August 09, 2007


At least in this case I was just being vocious (sp?). I remember a couple times I was yelling at the news! And both times involved a story about either John or Ophelia Ford.

Junkster said...

A few threads back someone mentioned the summer issue of Mid-America Seminary's newsletter, with articles on the topic of mininsterial integrity. The articles are short, quite good, and worth the time. The newsletter is here .

gmommy said...

Where is 25+?????

Where is Charlie Fox??

Lily Pad....yoo hoo!

gmommy said...

New info on Saving BBC

concernedSBCer said...

I propose a road trip for the Truthseekers!

Take a look!
http://www.spam.com/museum/

oc said...

Hey, and it's located in NASS' neighborhood!!
Let's roll!!!

Been Redeemed said...

Hey Ya'll,
Theres a nice article in the Commercial Appeal (Bartlett) on LWF. Check it out! At least there is SOME dignity remaining in the the remnants of BBC.

amazed said...

beenredeemed:

Yes the LWF group is still doing a good job, but what is sad is the bad press, on BBC, that is being spread around the world on the web. My how things can change in an instant.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Junkster,

Thanks for the reference to Mid America Seminary's newsletter, all of the articles are very good.

I especially liked the one from layman Jimmie Williams, CFO Belz Enterprises "Why is it Important for a Pastor to be a Man of Integrity?"

As you said, the newsletter is all well worth the read.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Article about LWF in the CA.

sheeplessatbbc said...

Jimmie Williams
CFO Belz Enterprises

What is the definition of integrity? Webster’s Dictionary states: A firm adherence to a
code of moral or artistic values; incorruptibility; It is synonymous with honesty. As believers,
we are all called to a life of integrity.

The responsibility and accountability of those who would lead us is all the greater.

The pastor is our shepherd, our spiritual leader and our overseer. The image of church members
being like sheep and the pastor being their shepherd is often used in the Bible and
I believe it remains true in most churches today. Sheep follow their shepherd with the
shepherd out in front, leading them through the rough mountains as well as the green
pastures. If he goes down the wrong path, they will follow. They watch every move the
shepherd makes and live their lives daily as the shepherd leads them.
The pastor sets the course and we tend to follow him wherever he leads. This places
a great responsibility on the pastor to be a man of highest integrity. He must have the
confidence of his flock and he must be faithful and true in his personal life, in his preaching/
teaching, and in the administration of the church. It is imperative that he practices
what he preaches. For example, if he preaches that “love” is spelled “T-I-M-E” and does
not prioritize his time according to biblical standards, then he loses integrity. If he preaches
not to be covetous and he puts making money high on his priority list, then he loses
integrity. If he preaches soul winning but is not a soul winner himself, he loses integrity.

The pastor/shepherd must be a man of integrity because his flock is watching him and
depending on his leadership. The lives of church members are greatly influenced by the
teaching of their pastor and they are watching how he conducts himself.

In a lot of cases,
he is the primary example of how they are to live. Being faithful to these tasks can be
very difficult and time consuming. As church members, we must always remember that
the pastor is human and will make mistakes, just as we do. However, once integrity is lost
or compromised, it can be very difficult to reacquire. When we realize the tremendous
burdens of our pastor, we should be all the more committed to daily prayer on his behalf.
Church members are not the only ones watching the daily life of the pastor.
Unfortunately, the “world” is also watching. While we as Christians must be an open book
to our neighbors and others in our community, the pastor is particularly subjected to the
scrutiny of the unchurched. They would gladly use his shortcomings as excuses as to why
they need not submit to God’s claim on their own lives.

As the Bible teaches us, the pastor will ultimately be accountable to God for the way
he cares for his flock. The church member likewise will be accountable as to how he submits
to the leadership God has given him. Let us all lead lives of integrity.
link provided by Junkster

How is it that a lay person and corporate man, CFO of a high profile successful corporation, can see much more clearly the importance of integrity and honesty than so many of our "so called leaders" and members of our once great Bellevue Baptist Church????

If we had more men like Jimmie D. Williams in leadership at BBC we would not be in the downward spiral we are in today.

Leaders and "members with your head-in-the-sand", you will all someday answer to God Almighty for what you have done to His church.

Sin by omission is still, SIN!!

Been Redeemed said...

amazed,
I agree that it is disturbing that BBC has sunk so low. Just like the reputation of Memphis was defamed by the actions of the Ford family, so has the reputation of BBC been tarnished by the actions of a few ungodly men.

sheeplessatbbc said...

2007 Layman's definition of integrity:

DR. ADRIAN ROGERS

concernedSBCer said...

So here we are......laymen with more integrity than some of the pastors.......a church where many came to salvation, now in shambles....a convention that refuses to deal with the crisis facing the denomination.....

It would be easy to get discouraged. Thankfully, we have the joy of our salvation and our faith that Romans 8:28 is 100% true.

Other than that, it's hard to know what else to do in the midst of these false teachings.

gopher said...

Here

"SM: Those things , I think, he did out of spirit of being hurt himself and was greatly distressed himself."

"SM- No, no, I think he just...I think he was just beaten so far down that God finally released him from that DEPRESSION or from whatever it was. He was just down. He's just been down ever since I came on staff up until couple of months ago, God just got hold of him and changed his spirit."


Are we to understand then that we have a pastor who is paid a 1/2 million plus perks and side jobs, and is "greatly distressed" and /or "depressed" dealing with a 34,000 member church, so much so that he has to run off 20,000 so he can feel better.

A costly depression therapy.

He could have just used Bellevue's Biblical Guidance Staff instead.

Bellevue's Biblical
Guidance Staff will be
presenting training on
Depression from a Biblical
perspective. Registration
at the ERC August 5-20.
For questions call 347-5830


"SM- I think God just finally got hold of him and just changed his attitude......1st part of April"

So why did he lash out last Sunday night, again?? Perhaps his "changed attitude" on the 1st part of April, was an April Fool's joke.

I guess Bellevue Members have just

"TICKED HIM OFF"

MOM4 said...

gopher,
The more I read and hear, the more I find that DC (SM) is void of discernment. If he is working that closely with SG and does not recognize the spirit of the man, something is wrong! DC and the rest of the staff need to seek their own wise counsel instead of relying on a man with a troubled existence. They are assuming that God placed SG at BBC and not man - why? Those of us with red flags from the beginning knew he was not the one - why would the Lord warn us if he was the "chosen one"? I believe that the Lord allowed SG to be pastor to reveal the hearts and souls of the membership AND the leadership. We sure have seen some wickedness in high places! But He allowed him to be pastor because that was what MAN wanted!

Since God always has a better plan:)Can you imagine what we have missed!!!!

gopher said...

MOM4 said...
"....But He allowed him to be pastor because that was what MAN wanted!"


AMEN



Whoops, am I allowed to say that here??

MOM4 said...

gopher said...
"AMEN



Whoops, am I allowed to say that here??"

As long as it is from the heart and not coerced:)

tn_lizzie2000 said...

I'm sorry. I must interrupt this thread to share
this 4 minute video.

Thanks to all the Dads out there who love their children enough to... well, you just gotta see this! Turn your speakers up.

:~D

oc said...

lizzie,
that's priceless.

bassman said...

Around the time in April that SG's "depression" lifted, leadership had successfully managed to keep an open meeting from taking place.

Leadership had managed to convince a group of men that closed small meetings with SG and DC were the answer to restoration.

As I recall, one of the more arrogant "trolls" played a not so funny April Fools "joke" on many on the blog.

That was also the turning point for many that could have possibly made a difference in holding SG, DC and others accountable for their lies and deceit.

I can see why those things and other events around that time opened the way for SG to complete his goals.

He MAY have had an attitude change.
He may have had some concerns he would be exposed and removed from his self appointed throne.

Maybe when he saw how much he had gotten away with
and how many people he had puppeted into place,
(and out of place)
he felt led by SOME spirit to move forward with his plans.

Yes, it appears SOME spirit did get hold of SG.

No need for BIBLICAL council with all the CFOs in power and
the spirits in control.

MOM4 said...

BASSMAN said...
"Leadership had managed to convince a group of men that closed small meetings with SG and DC were the answer to restoration."

I do not know if ANY closed small meeting with both SG and DC have occurred? If they have, it is totally within the leadership coven he has created!

Becky said...

gopher posted

Bellevue's Biblical
Guidance Staff will be
presenting training on
Depression from a Biblical
perspective. Registration
at the ERC August 5-20.
For questions call 347-5830

Reply:

OK, this gives me the shakes. Some of you may not agree with me, but I don't think the church is qualified to diagnose a person's mental health. I know a lot of people don't believe that mental health can be a physical problem and always seek spiritual healing for these problems. I fear for those who come to BBC for help in this area and may be advised by a well meaning but unqualified counselor.

MOM4 said...

churchmouse,
Of course you have the shakes! Look at how they handled the PW issue! Look at how they have handled a battered and bleeding congregation! They have stood firm with their leader rather than follow the Word of God!
I wouldn't trust my dog with their counsel, let along my dog's "confidential file".

gmommy said...

Churchmouse,
I couldn't agree with you more!
My experience has taught me NEVER to go to a church for counseling.

My experience with BBC counselors has included

a precious man who hadn't been in the world enough to know he was dealing with evil...
not a wife that needed to be more "something I won't say on the blog" but another area ministers have no business in,

a gifted counselor that happened to be taking money from the church at the time AND
having an affair with the young attorney he brought in to help mediate the divorce he felt I shouldn't go thru normal court procedures for since he could offer his services under the umbrello of BBC...
oh, and he charged my husband AND me...but failed to disclose that he wasn't suppose to do that.

MONTHS later, PW called to offer to pay me back...since this minister was now fired and they were trying to make things right.

Like a dummy,I turned down the money. I thought there would be someone else that this minister's behavior may cause to stumble
so I told PW to save the money for them.

Wow, back then, we got calls with intensions of making things right..........

Then the infamous "counseling session" with PW ...

that for the most part is a blank to me since due to the fact that PW is a professional predator he knew I would have a "danger button" inside of me, all he had to do was find it.
He did. But thank God Thank God...
I snapped back when I heard him tell me WHEN I was bringing my son in to see him.


Nope....would never allow anyone I cared for to go to a church for any kind of counseling....

OH and did I mention that NOTHING is confidential.
Laws and ethics don't apply in a church.
Neither does accountability.

and PS....don't trust a counselor,
no matter what initials are behind his/her name,
that puts "Christian" in front of his name..JMO...
IF he is a Christian,it doesn't need to be advertized....you will know.

Becky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Becky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
larry said...

Some of you may not agree with me, but I don't think the church is qualified to diagnose a person's mental health.

churchmouse,

Concerning your statement, you're quite right that the church is unqualified to diagnose mental health or to treat depression. But if I'm not mistaken, this presentation is more of an awareness training than diagnosis and treatment.

In the Bible, both Elijah and Moses were so deeply despaired that they prayed God would kill them on the spot. God answered them, and told them not to give up. Today, God often speaks through fellow Christians and we need to know how to respond to someone who might be praying the prayer of Elijah and Moses even as we speak.

Have you ever heard someone say that you just needed to pray a little more or read your Bible and you'd feel better in no time? There are times that much more is needed. If a friend fell into depression and came to you, would you know what to do?

For far too long, Christians have been led to believe that there is something wrong in their spiritual life if they battle with depression. The stigma attached to depression has gone on for far too long, and many churches are now educating their members. The last thing a depressed individual needs is to be made to feel false guilt in addition to their illness.

Ever since Tommy Nelson's recent battle with clinical depression there has been a growing awareness in the church that depression is much more than 'the blues', it isn't usually caused by a single factor, and many times the cause is physical and requires extended treatment.

Hopefully, this 'training' is meant to educate the participants that there is no shame associated with depression, and that anyone suffering from this debilitating conditioning should quickly seek the help of a qualified, experienced medical professional.

Depression is very real, it can be life-threatening, and it requires immediate attention.

Becky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Becky said...

Larry, I do agree with you. I have seen to many well intentioned Christians do the opposite of what you describe. I hope you are right about the class.

larry said...

Will they tell these people they need to learn a new technique to bring the joy of salvation into their hearts? Will they tell them they have sin in their lives? Will they tell them their faith is insufficiant when they may have a physical problem?

Will these counselors read the manual and believe they know everything?


These are the crucial questions, and I mean crucial. Depression has reached epidemic proportions, and it's getting worse. The victims sometimes don't even realize their condition.

If doctors with decades of training don't always know what to do, what hope does a layperson with a few hours of training have of really helping? The best they can do is to recognize the condition in their friends, reach out to them, and encourage them to seek professional help.

I truly hope that's what the class is all about.

Becky said...

Sorry, I deleted a comment, because I had said something unkind, but you copied the best of my remark. I know there are many Christians who believe mental illness equates with demon possession, or at least sin in a person's life. Some Christian leaders believe pharmaceutical intervention is a cop out. Depressed people are often fragile, and don't need someone pointing out more shortcomings in their character. The mention of a Bibical answer for depression brought images of a different scenario to my mind. I didn't think that pointing someone to a doctor would be the Biblcal answer BBC would provide.

gmommy said...

Have you ever heard someone say that you just needed to pray a little more or read your Bible and you'd feel better in no time? There are times that much more is needed.

Larry.....
You are probably a good guy and I apologize that something about your posts before on the Faith Walk and now popping up here with all your kind expertise on depression just bugs me.

You may be very sincere ...and innocent.
I don't know.

But I still wouldn't trust BBC or probably any church for any kind of counceling.

Churchmouse is one of our resident wise blog friends and I think you missed some of the sarcasim we were passing between she and mom4...or maybe you didn't miss it.

I take depression very seriously.

When I was so wounded by the betrayal of BBC that I was sick,
I went to a medical doctor ....deacon at BBC...who told me my blood pressure would go down and I would be fine if I memorized scripture and forgave PW.

I haven't been well for 2 straight weeks since those 1st weeks I had constant night mares, couldn't stay in my own home alone, and felt thrown out with the trash by my church...

I currently can't drive because I don't know when a panic attack will happen or I will pass out...happened 2 days ago while at my office...
kind of hard to live and work and make a living since the disobedience and deceitfulness by BBC leadership lead to a free fall of consequences suffered by the ones that didn't do the wrong.

Many of us on the blog ARE the walking wounded. We could teach YOU about depression and pain and how Christians and BBC treat their own.
So please,if you really are as nice and innocent as you talk...
...great!...but like you did when you came on here before...with all the answers...where have you been?
We aren't dummies.

And I REINTERATE...
I would never trust ..BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE.....
the wisdom or knowledge of a BBC councelor,other church councelor, or even a PHD that has to put Christian before his name.

or trust my dog to them.

Lynn said...

When I finally decide to get help for my anxiety and mild depression, I didn't go to a counselor at church. This is because I prefer to deal with someone who has professional training in psychology and psychiatry. As illustrated with PW and BBC, I cannot trust that my records would be kept private. Besides, something told me that the counselors at Bellevue wouldn't understand my situation as well as my psychologist does.

allofgrace said...

Some of the greatest saints of the faith battled depression...Martin Luther and Charles Spurgeon just to name 2. Depression can be caused by physical factors. The body's (and especially the brain's) chemistry is a delicate balance. Under extreme stress, that chemistry can get out of balance...which can include a supressed immune system and clinical depression. For most people, they don't realize anything's wrong till the symptoms become severe enough to seek a doctor's advice. There's such a thing as "normal" depression...the normal ups and downs of everyday life that everyone experiences....periods of depression lasting 2 weeks or more however, indicate that the depression could be clinical...anyone experiencing 2 or more symptoms of depression for a period lasting 2 weeks should seek medical help.

Some symptoms of clinical depression: inability to sleep, or sleeping more than normal; racing thoughts, thoughts of hopelessness or suicidal thoughts, feeling tired constantly, out of control emotions, fits of crying for no apparent reason.

Lynn said...

AOG...

You put it perfectly. I didn't realize my depression until I noticed how angry I was getting over little things (I'm talking about one time I yelled at the cashier at a restaurant for screwing up my order).

40 mg Lexapro and 300 mg Wellbutrin got me back in order even if it does make me bounce off the walls lol.

MOM4 said...

Pardon my sarcasm about the BBC counselors, but I have also had dealings with Christian Counselors, and like someone said earlier- just because they hang that tag on their title, doesn't mean they are what they claim (look at SG! AND PW!)

There were three people I knew who suffered depression after 9/11 - these were Christians who were in church every Sunday and were diligent in devotional time with the Lord. This was a clinical issue due to a traumatic event that so effected their well being that they suffered job loss, hair loss and even severe insomnia and appetite loss. They did not know they were depressed, they still had the joy of their salvation, and their fellowship with the Lord, but something was amiss and it took a Medical Doctor to diagnose it. After a few months on an antidepressant, they were fine and are still fine to this day.

gmommy said...

churchmouse,
Please don't delete your posts. You always share real wisdom and insight with us.

Becky said...

Gmommy, I will try to restrain myself a little better. 8^) Your
comments to me are very sweet. Thank you for the encouragement.

Lynn said...

Just a little off topic here...but according to channel 13...highs for the next 5 days are 102, 103, 103, 103, 104.

Becareful if you have any outdoor plans. Better yet...stay indoors where there is air conditioning.

Now I need to call Cotton Bowl Lanes to see if their air conditioning will be working Sunday night when I go down there to bowl!

oc said...

lynn,
Cotton Bowl Lanes. I live about 3 miles from there. Maybe I'll come to cheer you on, brother! What time?

PS. This is Mississippi. Who needs air conditioning? Bring a sweat towel,and a weapon, my Tennessee friend. :)

Just sayin'.
oc.

oc said...

And no, that's not a death threat.

Just sayin',
oc.

churchlpc said...

First, let me say that I have been reading this blog since it started, though I certainly don't stay up on it each day. I am a native of Memphis, though I now live in Texas. I didn't grow up at Bellevue, but it was "the church" that was looked up to...I did faithfully attend a sister SBC church, and became a Christian through one of those "week long" revivals. I have several friends that attend BBC, and several that attend GBC, so I try to stay informed about what is going on. While I recognize that I have no say on most things since I haven't been a member of BBC, please hear my humble reply to some of you about counseling. I mean absolutely no disrespect or to be accusatory.

For anyone who had their "counseling files" not be kept confidential in a church counseling or any other type of professional counseling setting, you have every right to be upset. It burns me up that someone that you trusted would devalue the counseling that was done. I am a licensed professional counselor in the state of Texas, I am a Christian, and I even received my double master's from seminary. While some counseling programs don't emphasize getting licensure in the state of your practice, I had several wise professors who insisted that this was the only way to keep "professional counseling" in its best context, that is, professional. I never hesitated in working towards my licensure (which consisted of a state exam, and 3000 hours of supervised experience), because not only did it protect me as the counselor, it also protected my clients. I had to agree to keep my sessions confidential---which, if you are licensed, you have no other option---it would be considered unethical if I disclosed anything that was revealed to me during a session unless it fell within the scope of reporting duties, suicidality, subpoenas from judges, etc. My clients are told this at their first visit--and sign an "Informed Consent" agreeing to this confidentiality. It is my duty to uphold what I agree to with them during a session.

All of that to say---I work for several SBC churches in my city, and I must say, the Lord has blessed these pastors and ministers to understand that even if they refer someone to me, that doesn't give them the right to know anything about their counseling. Before I contract with a church to provide counseling, I make it clear to the ministerial staff (inc. secretaries, etc.) that in no way will I reveal what someone has said to me during a session, even if a pastor/staff asks me specifically about it. My standard answer is "I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of any client." Thankfully, the churches I work with are completely understanding of this arrangement, and I've not been asked a single question yet by a staff member.

I'm sorry this is so long, and I am praying for everyone involved. For those of you who would never consider going to a church counselor again based on your past experience, I completely understand. But, for those of us trying to serve the Lord in our called ministry of counseling within churches, who are trying to do it right, don't write us off. There are a few of us that still follow the rules, and have only the best interest of our clients in mind. Thanks for reading my response. May God continue to watch over all of us that want only His best to be revealed.

Lynn said...

oc said...

lynn,
Cotton Bowl Lanes. I live about 3 miles from there. Maybe I'll come to cheer you on, brother! What time?

OC, we practice at 6:15. The schedule says lanes 5 & 6 however with this being a travel league, I could be on 25&26.

oc said...

Mom4 said:

Pardon my sarcasm about the BBC counselors, but I have also had dealings with Christian Counselors, and like someone said earlier- just because they hang that tag on their title, doesn't mean they are what they claim (look at SG! AND PW!)

oc says:
Pardon? No. Love your sarcasm. It's your kind of 'sarcasm' that makes people think. People really need to know that not everyone who professes Christ is of Christ.
We better know the Lord and the Word, and we better know who is following. And it better be us. And it better be me.
Just sayin'.
oc.

oc said...

lynn,

I'll be lookin' for you.



PS. THIS IS NOT A DEATH THREAT.
Got that, Bratton?

Becky said...

churchipc said,

"I am a licensed professional counselor in the state of Texas, I am a Christian, and I even received my double master's from seminary."

reply:
Thanks for your remarks. We don't, know who will be counseling at BBC, or whether they are qualified to recognize or counsel people who might be clinically depressed. We don't know or if they read a Larry Crabb book and hung out their shingle, or if they are going to perform exorcisims. Often in the past, people have been counseled by the ministers themselves, using a sort of standardized format. You know -- the umbrella and the chair, with the umbrella representing God's will? When I read something about the Bibical approach to depression, the red flags popped up. I don't believe the Bible discusses clinical depression. ???

oc said...

churchmouse said:
I don't believe the Bible discusses clinical depression. ???

oc says:
No, not in a 'clinical-psychological' specific way.
But look at Jeremiah. And see Lamentations. If anyone was clinically depressed, he was.
Depression as not discussed clinically, but certainly displayed practically.

Just sayin'.
oc.
Just sayin'.
oc.

imaresistor said...

churchlpc,

I would like to commend you on your integrity.

Ima

oc said...

How did I get two 'just sayin's' there?


I may have some psych thing going on myself.

Just....just...somethin'.
:)

oc. (not Obsessive Compulsive.)

gmommy said...

churchlpc,
Thank you so much for taking the time to post. I almost missed it!

I do want to believe there are professional, caring, councelors like you out there.

They are NOT at BBC.
BBC is NOT a safe place for wounded or vulnerable people.

We have been thru so much here at BBC. To come from a place of violation and then be violated by the "safe people" is very overwhelming.

We are sceptical by almost anything that comes out of BBC...it seems so bogus in light of what we have experienced.

We are fearful for others since so many of us have been hurt by their lack of integrity, ethics and basic scriptural obedience.

Thank you for sharing with us...and for the very respectful,way you went about it.

Several of us here have a special place in our hearts for Texans:)
God Bless.

Becky said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Becky said...

OC
You think Jeremiah's sadness was not circumstancial? I think we would come across sounding a little like Jeramiah if we were writing to DC, SG, HS, ST, and some of the BBC leadership and their followers.
Larry mentioned Moses and Elijah asking God to strike them dead. Was that said out of frustration and fatigue?
Just being contrary with ya OC.
8^)

churchmouse is leaving a trail of deleted mistakes today.

New BBC Open Forum said...

It seems one of BBC's 1st-2nd-grade soccer coaches who refused to sign the pledge has now been replaced... with none other than "ace"! In the words of one mother of a youngster who wanted to play soccer this year, "When h*ll freezes over!" (Translation: My kid will NOT be playing soccer at BBC this year!) Are they really this desperate for coaches?!

larry said...

Larry.....
You are probably a good guy and I apologize that something about your posts before on the Faith Walk and now popping up here with all your kind expertise on depression just bugs me.


gmommy,

I apologize if my presence is unpleasant, and I certainly won't stick around if I'm not wanted.

My concern is for the hurting people all around me. Many of them are reading this blog tonite, and we should be sensitive to them. According to the current statistics, 15% of the people here are suffering from depression and need help. They don't need to be made to feel any worse than they already do, and I think the conversation could've been having that effect. My purpose was to encourage, not to offend and I apologize for coming across that way. I was not delivering rebukes, only speaking from my own experience.

When I was a boy I went to the old Parkway Village Baptist church. (I've seen it mentioned here a few times recently.) In my early teens I fell into depression and was treated like a leper. I was essentially excommunicated by my fellow Christians. The only people who showed me any concern at all were some drug using New Age neighbors. Since I had no church home I was an easy target.

After years of satanic influence (during which time not one person from church ever checked on me) I decided to end my life. I swallowed an entire bottle of sleeping pills, but that wasn't God's plan. I woke up the next morning with no ill effects whatsoever other than my depression started to go away.

Not everyone is going to receive a miraculous healing like I did. Depression is serious, and it needs to be taken seriously. My prayer for anyone reading this who is currently trapped in that fog is that they will realize their situation is not hopeless, not by a long shot. There are people who care, and you need to seek them out.

And about the Faith Walk, I think I'm more than qualified to say what New Age mysticism is, and that ain't it. Faith Baptist is a wonderful house of worship, and it's so wrong to smear its reputation without basis. Many of the hurting people around us might have decided not to give it a chance because of what was being said about it.

I wish everybody the very best during these trying times, and I'm still available by email for those who'd like to maintain contact.

oc said...

Churchmouse said:
OC
You think Jeremiah's sadness was not circumstancial?

oc says:
No. Jeremiah knew his God. A God who was more powerful than the circumstances. Jeremiah had a problem, and maybe God wouldn't solve it. Much like Paul's problem of the 'thorn in the flesh'. God decides that the 'problem' is actually a 'blessing'. He uses it.
We don't need to understand it. We just need to obey. We may never get 'better' this side of heaven. So much for popular psychology, huh?

Just sayin'.
oc.

Becky said...

Yes! You have made me want to go back and read Jeremiah. 8^)

gmommy said...

larry,
You don't have to make a dramatic exit just because I don't completely trust you.

I only speak for myself so it's silly to make your farewells just because I have my guard up and I am suspicious of you.
It SOUNDED to me like you were blowing CM off but I have been told by one of my blog friends that they read it differently.
I would be happt to be wrong.

gmommy said...

That's HappY....

Becky said...

NASS said:
It seems one of BBC's 1st-2nd-grade soccer coaches who refused to sign the pledge has now been replaced...

reply: NASS, I wonder if any of those parents read the blog? You know, I heard that BBC failed to notify the team that this coach had been "fired." His team showed up on the field to practice this week. When the coach never showed up, they began calling the activities staff. Then the activities staff called security. Another example of....well...you know....

whitey said...

NASS-

Please tell me you are kidding in your 7:24 post?

-hw

Lynn said...

New BBC Open Forum said...

It seems one of BBC's 1st-2nd-grade soccer coaches who refused to sign the pledge has now been replaced... with none other than "ace"! In the words of one mother of a youngster who wanted to play soccer this year, "When h*ll freezes over!" (Translation: My kid will NOT be playing soccer at BBC this year!) Are they really this desperate for coaches?!

7:24 PM, August 10, 2007


Just what the world needs...Ace teaching kids how to be soccer hooligans

gmommy said...

I think the parents should know who their kids' coach REALLY is. They need to know he wasn't funny...he was devious...what else will he do?????

Will this come up in a background check?????

That just shows that BBC is NOT concerned with the safety of the kids...STILL!!!!!!

They are only concerned with the coaches taking the mark of SG.

Will they require a tatoo on the forehead?????

New BBC Open Forum said...

Heather,

1. No, I'm not kidding.

2. Please make your profile visible. It's required to post here.

gmommy said...

Wonder where our friend SWEET cakes is tonight??????

gmommy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Junkster said...

gmommy said...
Wonder where our friend SWEET cakes is tonight??????

Maybe he has a date!!

Earlier he was over on MB's blog defending his friends over here.

gmommy said...

Junk,
Oh yeah...date night tonight.
I never remember unless I go out for something and see the crowd.


I hope our sweet loyal friend IS on a nice date.
He may have to wait until he has that teachers pay check coming in!

I noticed for the first time that there is a Baptist Singles link on that other blog. curious...

gmommy said...

Who was the blogger that used to say, such and such church did or didn't have a singles dept?

Was that OC or someone that isn't here anymore...just curious...

Lwood said...

DEPRESSED!!!!!!!Not before SG came to BBC...We were happy going to our church and being with our friends... Loving the FAMILY OF FRIENDS at BBC....Update to 2007 Depressed..... Yes Why...Because BBC as we knew it is gone and our friends are scattered...Counseled by someone at BBC.... I think not! SG and the Staff is the ones that need counseling.......Not the beaten sheep...

concernedSBCer said...

You know, this mess has affected other aspects of BBC's ministry as well. My kids homeschooled and were active in the Bellevue Band. It was a great opportunity for the kids to learn music and to play in a group. It's almost non-existant now. The ball teams...used to reach friends, etc....now either don't have enough coaches or have kids like Ace coaching.....the ripples will extend far from the sanctuary.

Lynn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
concernedSBCer said...

The place that shall remain nameless....that "other" blog.....

Lynn said...

Lynn said...

gmommy said...

Who was the blogger that used to say, such and such church did or didn't have a singles dept?

Was that OC or someone that isn't here anymore...just curious...

9:21 PM, August 10, 2007

That could have been me. However, if the other blog is promoting it, I probably would NOT be interested lol.

9:31 PM, August 10, 2007
Delete

concernedSBCer said...

Okay, Lynn....now you messed up my post!!! LOL!

sickofthelies said...

After my mother died from cancer ten years ago, and the entire dysfunction of my past was reiterated with the behavior of my brother, which i will not go into, i went into a SEVERE depression, where I was afriad to let my children out of my sight, we had to keep our blinds closed at all times, the kids were not allowed to play outside without me, becuase of certain justified fears I had about my brother causing them harm.

How did my SS teacher at BBC support me? She rebuked me in front of my entire ss class because I was depressed, which meant that I was not being a good Christian.

If it werent' for Christians, there would be more Christians.

gmommy said...

lwood...

slim chance SG would choose a CHRISTIAN counselor that wouldn't tell him what he wanted to hear.

and unfortunately, even when BBC referred people to councelors outside of the Biblical Guidance office....the list was short and not very well researched.

I remember one in particular that was on their short list of maybe 2-3 Christian PHDs...
he became "inappropriate" with my husband over the course of time AND used one of the 3 questions on me that PW was so fond of using.

Lynn said...

concernedSBCer said...

Okay, Lynn....now you messed up my post!!! LOL!

9:43 PM, August 10, 2007


Ooops. I had realized I made a typo. I had inadvertantly said I would be interested in what ever the other blog is mentioning when I meant to say I would NOT :).

gmommy said...

oh my goodnss...CNN is showing an exorcist and people are growling.........

concernedSBCer said...

SOTL: It is hard to imagine Christians treating each other with such a lack of compassion. You did nothing wrong; you didn't need to be disciplined; you were hurting. I am so sorry.

sickofthelies said...

Did i mention that the teacher was none other than PAT CALDWELL????

Lynn said...

concernedSBCer said...

SOTL: It is hard to imagine Christians treating each other with such a lack of compassion. You did nothing wrong; you didn't need to be disciplined; you were hurting. I am so sorry.

9:50 PM, August 10, 2007

Ya know...when I mentioned my personal issues to my SS teacher, all I got was indifference. He nodded his head said some things, but I could tell that there was a lack of concern.

gmommy said...

SOTL,
But there are always loving , sweet Christians that have been thru pain and don't pretend to live in a perfect little Christian box.

For all the people that have looked down on us or acted like we were invisable there are the real deals.

You know I'm right,girlfriend!

sickofthelies said...

Gmommy,

I know you are right...for every one like that woman, there are many many sweet dear Christians. I have become so very close to many many more Christians throughout this whole SG crisis.

IN ALL THINGS GIVE THANKS...

God is so good!!

oc said...

Sotl said:

After my mother died from cancer ten years ago, and the entire dysfunction of my past was reiterated with the behavior of my brother, which i will not go into, i went into a SEVERE depression, where I was afriad to let my children out of my sight, we had to keep our blinds closed at all times, the kids were not allowed to play outside without me, becuase of certain justified fears I had about my brother causing them harm.

How did my SS teacher at BBC support me? She rebuked me in front of my entire ss class because I was depressed, which meant that I was not being a good Christian.

If it werent' for Christians, there would be more Christians.

oc says:

GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

amazed said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Becky said...

Lwood said...
DEPRESSED!!!!!!!Not before SG came to BBC...We were happy going to our church and being with our friends... Loving the FAMILY OF FRIENDS at BBC....Update to 2007 Depressed.....

reply:
The irony is unmistakable, no? So much sadness and depression has been caused by the leadership of BBC, and suddenly they are concerned about depression. Why now?

Here is my diagnosis for the followers of Steve Gaines who refuse to open their eyes and look around:

"STOCKHOLM SYNDROME is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in
which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed. Stockholm syndrome is also sometimes discussed in reference to other situations with similar tensions, such as battered person syndrome..."
--wikipedia

Could this also apply to battered sheep syndrome? (tongue-in-cheek)

David Hall said...

Yo,

No date tonight, but the night is still young, hehe.

After I asked him nicely, Mike Bratton ammended the pet names on his links to here and Saving Bellevue. He still expresses reservations and criticisms of this blog, yet his tone is more consiliatory and open-hearted (please don't pummel me for saying so).

Let's please watch our tone--standing our ground on the substance of the salient matters--seeking integrity and transparency from BBC leadership--without escalating a verbal war of invective and blanket dimissals between the blogs.

Becky said...

You guys, that is a silly remark, about Stockholm syndrome, just so you know that wasn't meant to be serious.

sickofthelies said...

I don't read the other blog.

concernedSBCer said...

Thanks, Cakes, for the excellent reminder.

Looking forward to seeing you again at the bowling party. Do you still need bumpers? ;)

Becky said...

A-hemmmmmm.

gmommy said...

too fast cakes...
gotta get my dictionary and glasses:)

gmommy said...

Churchmouse,
I knew we were being a little sarcastic this morning and the Stockholm thing but what does the Heeem mean????

gmommy said...

I want to finally meet JTB at the next clandestine meeting.

Gotta get rid of the image I have of him like I had of Amos the monk:)

And somebody bring their guitar next time!!!
that can really play it,Padroc!

concernedSBCer said...

Do they allow guitars at bowling alleys?

David Hall said...

"I don't read the other blog."

Cool.

concernedSBCer said...

GMommy: JTB probably doesn't eat locusts and honey. Pizza maybe?

gmommy said...

actually , what he says and how he says it....
I don't get a picture of the real JTB....

Hey JTB...not talking behind your back....

concernedSBCer said...

Cakes: I ventured over there a couple of times...but to be honest.....it feels very "dark" over there. It made me feel very uncomfortable. And who needs that? Especially with all the dear people I have met here!

gmommy said...

and speaking of the meeting place..
obviously, we have been compromised since SG is aware of the "meetings".

Becky said...

Gmommy-
a-hemmmmm? Isn't that what the sophistocated say as they peer over their reading glasses? -- as they lift a china teacup to their lips, with pinky finger extended to the 10:00 position. Chruchmouse was just trying to get into the moment as cakes addressed us. =)

concernedSBCer said...

We'll have to send carrier pidgeons with new directions.

be-still-and-know said...

Churchmouse,

Very seriuosly, I think you mean STOCKYARD Syndrome. You know, battered sheep and all.

concernedSBCer said...

Be-still-and-know said: "STOCKYARD Syndrome"

LOLOLOLOL That's great! Very clever!

be-still-and-know said...

Sorry-

I know that was really baaaaaad.

gmommy said...

of course,
like a good church mouse.

concernedSBCer said...

be still: I liked it!

(Of course, I have been accused of liking puns way too much!)

25+yrs@BBC said...

gmommy said...
Where is 25+?????

Where is Charlie Fox??

Lily Pad....yoo hoo!

11:24 PM, August 09, 2007

Response:

I'm here and still read the blog... but since the exodus has continued unabated and my family members have all departed--I pray more these days than comment.

The list that I put together some time back would have helped BBC.

It would have required the "R" word though. Repentance is a gift from God that the leadership at Bellevue has not as yet received.

It is, however, the prerequisite for real revival. Some who remain at BBC are praying for revival... they need to pray that the leadership will repent no matter the cost.

Some are under the impression that the only problem is that the pastor is not filled with the Spirit... There are so many things that need to be set right that are barriers to anyone at BBC experiencing real revival.

So much that needs to be made right... but they want everyone to wave a magic wand of forgiveness in the direction of those who refuse to make things right. Their demands are something like:

"Forgive us and let us continue to break the law by non-disclosure..."

"Forgive us and let us continue to pretend that we have not wronged anyone..."

"Forgive us and pretend with us that the qualifications for pastors and deacons are just guidelines..."

"Forgive us and pretend that you never read the bylaws that call for monthly meetings..."

"Forgive us, give your money, and pledge to fully support us as we drive away many of the people who God used to build BBC..."

It says above the dooway in the front of the church "Send out Thy light and truth..." Truth and light walk together. Where truth is not honored real light is not welcome. Truth does not fear light. God is continuing to send out His light and truth to other congregations.

jmo

johnthebaptist said...

gmommy said...
I want to finally meet JTB at the next clandestine meeting.

Gotta get rid of the image I have of him like I had of Amos the monk:)


and she said...


actually , what he says and how he says it....
I don't get a picture of the real JTB....

Hey JTB...not talking behind your back....



JTB REPLY: It must be a really slow night for anyone to talk about me!

Gmommy, I am not sure what image you have of me but I hope it isn't bad. I am not sure what you meant by "actually , what he says and how he says it....
I don't get a picture of the real JTB...."

I didn't take what you said bad, but I just don't understand what you mean.

Not that ya'll were, but I don't mind if someone talks behind my back. Now, if it was done from the pulpit.....

Piglet said...

25+ said:

Truth and light walk together. Where truth is not honored real light is not welcome. Truth does not fear light. God is continuing to send out His light and truth to other congregations.

Piglet says:

Amen!

A word aptly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver....

Lynn said...

BTW....

Sunday Night's sermon at BBC..."Marks of a Christian Minister".

Piglet said...

lynn said:

Sunday Night's sermon at BBC..."Marks of a Christian Minister".

Piglet says:

That's rich. :0/

Next week:

"Honesty and Humility"

oc said...

concernedsbcer said:

I ventured over there a couple of times...but to be honest.....it feels very "dark" over there. It made me feel very uncomfortable. And who needs that? Especially with all the dear people I have met here!

oc says:
yep. There is a reason why it felt
'dark' to you. You should not have been there at all. Stay where you are loved. Just a suggestion.

oc.

Piglet said...

Concernedsbcer

You have mail.

Piglet said...

Well.....(yawn)..I hate to miss out on all this excitement but I have a family wing-ding tomorrow so I'm htting the hay.

G'night.

Anonymous said...

Cakes ol buddy,

I heard you don't have a date tonight cause your lips are all worn out from going back and forth from one blog to the other kissen up to the blogsters there. HAAAAAA HAAAAA HAAAAAA. Peacccccccemaker Smoooooooch.

I just had to say that. I'm so bad!

Gmommy,

I don't play Guitar. Soooo sorry.

Night all.

be-still-and-know said...

concernedsbcer said:

I ventured over there a couple of times...but to be honest.....it feels very "dark" over there. It made me feel very uncomfortable.

Reply:

Have you read any Frank Peretti? I sometimes think of his books when I venture back “over there.”

His book, This Present Darkness, paints a fictitious picture of the spiritual warfare going on all around us.

That oppressive feeling may be easily explained. Did you hear the rustle of wings? Or see a fleeting shadow cross your path? The swirling battle may be so much closer than we think…Some may even be feeling the claws on their backs and hot sulfuric breath on their necks…

Hey, Churchmouse! I just went and pulled “The Oath” from my book shelf. I think I’ll go put the kettle on.

gmommy said...

Gosh, in the few minutes I was playing with Facebook

I missed piglet, 25+ ,(thanks for leaving the wisdom),
Padroc (I know you don't play guitar...remember that silly thing you told me about being talented at all those things ....in your mind?)
Tea with CM and be still, and JTB!!!

Hey JTB,
All good. I actually see you as really nice and fair and youngish.
So it will be funny when we meet and you are a grouchy old guy or something:)
I haven't been out in 2 days so really slow for me.
Got really sick a few days ago in public (again C sbcer)so have been nervous about driving.

Thought I would have majic medicine by now but have to have a biopsy before I can take it and it has been a nightmare trying to work in the system where no one cares that you feel bad. Now here we are at the weekend.
Missing alot of work.

JTB...I mean Nothing negative or disrespectful....all curiosity because you seem so fair...like a younger person.

Junk has to have a great sense of humor....curious about him too.

Becky said...

be-still-and-know said...
Churchmouse,

Very seriuosly, I think you mean STOCKYARD Syndrome. You know, battered sheep and all.

11:01 PM, August 10, 2007

be-still,
You know, I believe you are right! Since you and I apparently live in a different time zone -- I am answering you a day late....
Oh, I hope you enjoy The Oath. You will be glad you haven't signed anything lately.

* * *
Lynn said...
BTW....

Sunday Night's sermon at BBC..."Marks of a Christian Minister".

reply: MARKS? (groan) Oh, say it ain't so. (he is going to talk about marks? he wasn't thinking, was he? right after the loyalty oaths he preaches on marks?) Churchmouse is muttering to herself.

oc said...

Churchmouse said:

Lynn said...
BTW....

Sunday Night's sermon at BBC..."Marks of a Christian Minister".

churchmouse replies:

reply: MARKS? (groan) Oh, say it ain't so. (he is going to talk about marks? he wasn't thinking, was he? right after the loyalty oaths he preaches on marks?) Churchmouse is muttering to herself.

7:51 AM, August 11, 2007


oc says:
Oh, come on people. Relax. Maybe he meant 'Marx', as in the Marx brothers. You know, Harpo, Zeppo, Chico.....Those are probably his marx of a Christian minister.
Now, do you feel better, churchmouse? :)

Just sayin'.
oc.

Becky said...

OC,
Thanx! Yes, that is much better.

oc said...

Sorry. :(

Becky said...

Not, Karl, right?

oc said...

I hope not Karl. But I'm not sure anymore.

Just sayin'.
oc.


(the 'other' blog is going to run wild with this).

Becky said...

Are we trying to make friends over there?

Becky said...

oc said...
Sorry. :(

Note to self: OC read 25+'s post about repentance and took it to heart.

reply: I am sorry for making snide remarks about SG's choice of titles for his sermon.

oc said...

Nope. Not necessarily. That blog exists only criticize this one. So the next thing on their blog is going to be 'oc is saying that Gaines is a Marxist!'.

Watch it happen.

Becky said...

NOTICE TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

I am the one who brought up Karl Marx. I am sorry for making jokes about the title of SG's sermon. The remarks were not appropriate.

oc said...

churchmouse,
could you email me please?

New BBC Open Forum said...

oc,

Why not just ignore it?

oc said...

Alright.

Patrick said...

Good morning everyone,

My youngest wanted to see where Dr. Rogers is buried. We just got back.

I remembered the first time he hugged me. I was suprised and soothed. I had nothing he wanted and nothing to offer him. He just simply was expressing his love for a younger brother.

Sitting there reflecting, I was reminded of why it comes so easy to honor him. He was honorable. He didn't DO things so he would BE honored. He simply loved Jesus and lived it. Presidents honored him, peers honored him and many of the rest of us did too. Being honorable made him worth honoring. He was like Jesus.

The other day, I was watching the clip from the SBC when he stood up and refused to compromise just to get along. He said the SBC doesn't have to continue,...I don't have to be pastor of Bellevue,...I don't have to live,...but I will not compromise the Word of God. His great character and bold words were proven by his actions. He was like Jesus.

I know this is simple and obvious but I'm reminded this morning that we must keep our eyes on Jesus alone. I'm not fussing - I'm confessing. Let's pray for each other - no, I mean really - pray by name if possible for each other, nothing else going on, no other distractions, no other agenda but to reaffirm our total surrender to our Lord, confess ("keep a short account" as Dr. Rogers would say), and pray as He leads for one another.

Remember, God is listening for us and to us.

Andrew

I catch up with you all later.

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