On Monday, June 4th at 9:00 a.m., there will be an interview with our own David Brown on Live at 9 on WREG Channel 3. Anna Whalley of the Shelby County Crime Victim's Center is scheduled to be interviewed with him. The interview is to focus on the importance of reporting even suspected abuse to the proper authorities immediately and the services available to victims of childhood sexual abuse. David has asked for our prayers for him and for victims to have the courage to seek assistance.If you're not in the Memphis area or not near a TV when it airs live, you should be able to watch it online here later.
The Commercial Appeal may do an interview later.
Related stories:
Rape of Faith
America's Largest Protestant Denomination Under Fire
Victim's rights group calls for action by Church
Bellevue investigation yields sharp criticism
EthicsDaily.com
575 comments:
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Glad I could be of service. :0/
And for the record, I spewed skim milk.
Concernedsbcer
I'm beginning to wonder who is left anymore.
At first those opposed to SG left ,and now his suppoters are leaving....
adam said
They just come around for about 3 months and then their off to Highpoint or Hope. Totally uncommitted and immature. I vote we cut their money off.
Piglet says:
There you people go again with that voting nonsense. Don't you know if you want a vote you got to go to church somewhere else?
This here's STEVIE world!
We'll just have to add adam and blt to the long list of 466 nobodies who want a meetin' (see Tim Coggins petition).
Sorry NASS, I'm too stuuuuuupid to post a link..... :(
The NEW leadership will convert them with ...entertainment.
BBC will soon be a bigger and better "Hope".
Okay Piglet, accept the things you cannot change and change the things you can - as long as it doesn't involve anything at BBC.
Piglet says:
We'll just have to add adam and blt to the long list of 466 nobodies who want a meetin' (see Tim Coggins petition).
Reply: Well actually, I gave up on that meetin' thing a while back, I still just want a buzzard blogger bowling get together.
Lily
Sorry BLT, I got you mixed up with Carol T.
Maybe you've already come to terms with the BBC dictatorship - unlike these poor souls holding out hope.....
I must admit I was once one of them.
adam said
They just come around for about 3 months and then their off to Highpoint or Hope. Totally uncommitted and immature. I vote we cut their money off.
Lynn's response: Not all of them leave. I stayed off and on for 3 years depending on my schedule lol. But after the Gulf Shores debacle, I'd rather be in a bowling alley than at Bellevue.
blt,
We do need to make it a blogger bowling party.
I had thoughts of getting my painting finished to have a "shindig" as Cakes calls it....not gonna happen soon. I am over my head with things to do.
Lily: I love to bowl!!!!
Since several of us got left out of the party last night, I think we can plan another one, don't you?
I see from some earlier comments that Steve is shopping his resume. I bet that's a doozey.
One thing that should be known is that while the folks at Gardendale were happy to let him slide out of town without any warning to their brothers and sisters it won't happen again. Steve won't get to a church on the outskirts of Istanbul without the alarm being sounded of the destruction that has been left in his wake. It can not be allowed to happen again anywhere else. West Jackson, Gardendale, Bellevue...enough is enough.
The writing is on the wall.
Daniel 5:22-27
22 And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this;
23 But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified:
24 Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written.
25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
26 This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
concernedsbcer
Party? What party?
Once S gave us the guest list of last night's party...well...
I heard there was a really good Elvis act!!!!
Please email your 1st and 2nd choice of bowling locales to awl814@bellsouth.net.
1 - Cordova
2 - Bartlett
I am not familiar with a 3rd choice.
Once we get the majority vote on locate, then we can proceed to the best available date and time.
Minnesota - you may have to come in for this one.
Word vertification: tizqo
blt....
ANYWHERE BUT CORDOVA!!!!
:)
Questions that come to mind about BBC spending $1 million toward a church building for the Hispanic congregation...
Has this been published / publicized? Any way to confirm it?
Was this initiated at the Hispanic church's request, or was it BBC's idea?
Did they do anything to raise funds towards this themselves?
How long has this been planned / in the works?
Was it published in the budget info released before the "annual meeting"?
If not, just how big does an expenditure have to be before it requires congregational input / approval?
Let's definitely keep the date and location between emails only.
Elvis is cool.....I'm not crazy about snakes.
Junk said
If not, just how big does an expenditure have to be before it requires congregational input / approval?
Piglet says:
Oh, this is just sad. I'm going to bed.
G'night dearest Junk.
Powergommy has a good point
"Let's definitely keep the date and location between emails only."
Yes indeed, I do not want a troll to crash our bloggler bowl. After location is determined all other details will be by private email only.
BLT: Cordova
Tim: Excellent Point....but do you think they'll listen?
Piglet.......apparently last night there was a blog party (Solomon told us about it....Junk went too!) and they didn't even wait for Nass to fly in from Minnesota....
Lily,
you got mail.
And just an FYI for everyone. Here is a full list of bowling alleys in the city:
Cordova Lanes in Cordova
Bartlett Lanes in Bartlett
All Star Lanes at Quince and White Station
Winchester Lanes at Mendenhall
Imperial Lanes on Summer Ave.
Strike Zone in Snowden Grove Park
in South Haven
Cotton Bowl Lanes in Southhaven
near Stateline Road and Airways.
BLT: I changed my mind...what about we go to Minnesota to meet Nass????
Hey, I like that new word 'bloggler'.
Too many typos, time to go to bed.
*****************************
And HE shall reign FOREVER AND EVER. Amen.
junk..(the Baptist),
don't ask, don't tell.
I think we could be aware of hangings in the gym and not be able to get anyone to care.
Training was the consequence for SG,JF,and Webb, and whoever else....
(have heard one of the people that knew the victim quote 20 for the number of people at BBC that knew of the crime committed)
.....training.....
that's it... may as well blackmail,lie,spend money that doesn't belong to you.....where does it end?
Just to keep everyone guessing where the blogger bowling location, here's two more:
Funquest in Collierville
Jillian's at Peabody Place
adam wrote:
Some stuff...
I find it interesting or perhaps a coincidence that we've got three people by the same name, or else "adam" keeps having to register a new account again, but tonight is the third time in three days that someone with the screen name "adam" has posted under three different profile #'s -- 38955, 86281, and 18372. Sounds like something "arminius" or another troll would do. Instead of changing screen names he changes profiles and keeps the same screen name. Whatever -- just cut it out! And take "listen2thesigns" with you, please.
Don't try and pull anything on Nass....
she gets cranky in that cold basement.
concernedsbcer said,
BLT: I changed my mind...what about we go to Minnesota to meet Nass????
oc says:
That be's a long way to bowl, don't cha think? Besides, it's the land of 10,000 lakes. It would be like 'aqua bowling'.
Cotton bowl in Southaven. I vote for that.
How was church for everyone today?
My SS class had a great discussion on obedience....how the 10 commandments weren't suggestions and my SS teacher made a funny, but true, remark. He thumbed through his Bible and said, "It's printed in black and white.....I kept looking for the grey..........." We also discussed how important it is for our witness to extend into the home and impact our children and grandchildren.
No gray in the Bible!!
So it's not full of just guidelines?????
I don't bowl, but I like the purdy lights at Billy Hardwicks All Star Lanes.
I could prolly skateboard to Bartlett Lanes...
I'll come just to see alltojesus skateboard!!!lol
Anybody hear the sermon at BBC today??????
How did SG fill in the blanks?????
powergmommy wrote:
"Anybody hear the sermon at BBC today??????
How did SG fill in the blanks?????"
"Sins committed in moderation by a leader are often amplified in excess by their followers."
He had some interesting comments about drinking, such as being seen with beer or wine on the table in a restaurant....
Hmmm
Moderation or excess, sin is sin. How much doesn't matter.
Dear Sister in Christ,
I realize you were replying to David and not me, but I have a few things I feel the need to share with you and I pray that you receive them with all the Christian love and compassion I am sending your way. Please forgive my humble communication skills and please hear my heart. Beloved Sister, I wish I could reach out and hug you and tell you that it can be better, for we are not as different as you may think -- sometimes, it’s a matter of perception.
First, I want to thank you for sharing your story. My first time to do this was years ago in front of an audience filled with semi-drunk or drugged homeless men. I didn’t see how my story could possibly help them, but I could never refuse anything that was asked of me by Verla Pettit – and if you were blessed to know that amazing Christian lady you will understand exactly what I mean.
Secondly, I am truly sorry if I gave the impression that there is a one-size-fits-all healing box. My beloved Sister in Christ, I humbly ask your forgiveness if I caused you needless pain.
In my earlier post, I was writing of my own experience and I did not mean to imply that the journey would be identical for everyone, but only that complete forgiveness of the abuser is required in order to become not merely a survivor, but a survivor with no hurtful baggage. I stand firm on the issue of complete forgiveness and I would like to address that with you later in this post. (I would email but I don’t even know your name.) Complete forgiveness does not purge our memories from us, but it does render them unable to ever again harm us or hold us captive.
Beloved Sister, you said you are older. I’m on the backside of my 60’s, so I am indeed a Seasoned Citizen. I sought professional help because of the emergence of sever panic attacks when I was in my early 30’s – over 30 years ago. They were so severe and progressed so rapidly that I, too, quickly became afraid to go outside of my own home.
For clarity, my abuse was from early childhood into my early teens, and the perpetrator was a family member, not clergy. I accept what David says about there being a difference so I want to continue to make that distinction.
I, too, take daily medication for heart problems, but in all honesty, so do many others in our age group and I can’t legitimately claim mine as a result of abuse. Nor do I claim all the wear and tear on my body – and it certainly has its share, but that comes with having lived an active life, having children, and primarily from not being allowed to pick parents with a better genetic code to inherit. :)
And, like you, my children, whose care and nurturing I considered as my lifetime career, have been grown and gone for years now. They each have successful lives of their own for which I am ever so thankful, but to this very day, I still feel the empty-nest syndrome. I miss those earlier years when the house was full of kids, and noise, and all the things associated with being a full-time mom. I loved that job! I’m still their mom, but it’s different now. But, I am ever so thankful to the Lord for those wonderful years and all of the cherished memories.
When the PW situation came to light at BBC, I was very upset – not for myself or for fear of any emotions that it could drag up because I knew my own past would never hurt me again. I worried for the children of BBC and for any others that may have been victims of this man’s evil sin. We know that pedophiles repeat their sin and we know they rarely have only one victim. To this day, I pray that there are no others, but nothing would surprise me at this point.
Did I feel betrayed by my church? Yes, because of the way this horrific sin was treated so lightly, rewarded with a pay increase, unashamedly covered up, mismanaged, and completely bungled by SG, our so-called guardian of the flock. But much more than betrayal, I was terribly grieved that BBC was fast losing its witness to the world and that’s what hurt me the most -- and still does today.
You see, my faith has never been in my church, even as much as I loved BBC. I came from a devout Roman Catholic background and I know all too well the dangers of focusing too strongly on a church, a pastor, or even a denomination. My faith is grounded solely in the Lordship of Jesus Christ and His substitutionary death, burial, and resurrection. And Jesus did not betray me! He never has and He never will, no matter what He allows into my life. I’ll say it as simply as I know how: When I close my eyes in death, if my soul slips into the bowels of hell, I will go there trusting Jesus.
My therapy took over a year of almost constant work on my part. When sharing my story, I don’t go into the details of the sin because I believe it’s better to focus on the miraculous grace of God, so perhaps my earlier post made it sound too easy, but I assure you, my beloved Sister in Christ, it was the most emotionally and physically difficult thing I have ever done. Healing did not come in a Benny Hinn moment. I cried, I screamed, I raged until my whole body ached; I screamed and shook my fist in God’s face, I curled up in a little ball and whimpered and wept like a baby. This happened over and over, oh, so many times. If this was professional therapy, I wanted no part of it. I told my shrink I couldn’t do it – I quit. I began again. I quit again.
I hated myself; I hated my father, my mother, my grandparents, my aunts and uncles. And if God existed (and I wasn’t at all sure He did at that time in my life), I wasn’t exactly fond of Him either. I hated everyone except my wonderful husband who was there for me with his gentle strength of the proverbial iron hand in a velvet glove.
Beloved Sister, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it’s only by God’s miraculous grace that I am alive today. After one particularly difficult session of memory recall and letter writing, while I was home alone, I went to the gun safe and took out a .357 magnum, which I carefully loaded and I placed the barrel of the pistol in my mouth. God alone knows why I put the gun down after a few minutes – for I have absolutely no idea.
I no longer had the emotional strength or the desire to live and yet, the Lord prevented me from pulling the trigger. There was no place else to run. I was broken -- totally and completely broken.
I later came to know that the Lord wanted me broken, for that’s when He began to show me things in His Word that I had never really seen before. He showed me the whole book of Job, and I learned, as AR used to say, “Job teaches us to understand that we don’t have to understand.”
He allowed me to see that so much of Jesus’ teaching on forgiveness in the N.T. was given to teach us not to be driven by our emotions because that in itself is sin and a sure roadblock to forgiveness.
Most importantly, the Lord showed me in His Word that forgiveness is not optional. Forgiveness is an act of our will, and if we are to be in obedience to Him, we must will ourselves to forgive. We aren’t told to forgive when we feel like it, or to try to forgive the best we can, or to forgive somewhat. He tells us to forgive -- period. Forgiveness is required of us.
He further showed me that I was not being hypocritical to will the forgiveness of my abuser even when my emotions wanted revenge. He showed me that if I would be faithful and obey Him by forgiving, then He would eventually make my heart right to where I would want to forgive freely and of my own will.
And so I obeyed and willed forgiveness to my abuser and to all those who had hurt me in other ways, and the Lord did exactly as he had said in his Word. When I read the letters for the last time, I was able to forgive fully and freely because I wanted to forgive.
Beloved Sister in Christ, I hope you hear my heart about this. You are a survivor and I thank God for that, but I am praying that you will not settle for where you are when you can be totally free of the bondage of your past emotions. As I said earlier, complete forgiveness does not purge our memories from us, but it does render them unable to hurt us ever again. I would not write this to you if I did not know it to be true. I would ask you to read a copy of John MacArthur’s book, The Freedom and Power of Forgiveness. It had not been written when I was going through therapy, but oh, how I wish it had been.
I realize that this post may make you angry with me and if so, that’s okay. But I challenge you, and any others who may be reading this, not to settle for anything less than the freedom provided by Jesus, for if the Son sets you free, you shall be free indeed. My prayer for you is that you come to know His freedom too!
Because He lives,
Mary
Sad....
theology and truth itself is being changed by this man that isn't even a great preacher.
No wonder he feels so untouchable and powerful.
OK...so as long as we sin moderately....and not excessively...all is well.
I know I'll get in trouble for this.....
what scripture can we verify that by????
all2jesus said...
I could prolly skateboard to Bartlett Lanes...
Piglet says:
I'd like to see that. :0/
New BBC Open Forum said...
"Sins committed in moderation by a leader are often amplified in excess by their followers."
Wonder if that means that itty- bitty sins in the preacher's life result in big-ole sins in the members' lives? Kinda like, "I was only a little bad, but you guys are really, really bad!" How conveeeeeeeenient!
Word Verification: usagogm ... free advertising for General Motors?
Sin in moderation? I have heard the phrase "eat in moderation" and various other things to do in moderation, but I don't recall ever hearing the word "moderation" and "sin" used in a sentence like that.
Sin no more is not quite the same as sin in moderation. I'm sure Satan would like us to believe that to sin in moderation is okay.
I really hope I have completely miscontrued the fill in the blanks, but even if I have miscontrued what was implied, how many in the auditorium today would just say - oh good, sin in moderation - cool, I can do that.
I also want to know what inferences were made about beer/wine on the table at a restaurant. Just curious.
blt wrote:
"Sin in moderation? I have heard the phrase 'eat in moderation' and various other things to do in moderation, but I don't recall ever hearing the word 'moderation' and 'sin' used in a sentence like that."
No, I can't recall hearing that before either, but I didn't get the impression he was giving his approval of it.
"I also want to know what inferences were made about beer/wine on the table at a restaurant. Just curious."
That we shouldn't do it -- not even a beer with barbecue ribs or a big, ol' hamburger slathered in mustard and stacked with onions or a glass of wine with dinner. (Those were examples given.) No mention was made of whether it's okay to purchase it for your dinner guests.
Maybe Nass can supply us with the link to the sermon.
I was going to listen but it requires registration on the site.
I can see how the baby Christians may accept sin in moderation but will it finally be the wake up call for those that know better???
Nass,
Was SG saying the leadership should NOT sin in moderation?????
So, from NASS I gather the message was not approval of sin in moderation, but apparently it was also not a very strong "hail and brimstone" kinda message of the evils of sin, even the small stuff!!
powergmommy wrote:
"Maybe Nass can supply us with the link to the sermon.
"I was going to listen but it requires registration on the site."
The live feeds and recordings come from 360networks.com, not BBC. All it requires is an e-mail address. As I recall, you don't have to give them any other information.
This morning's sermon will probably be up sometime tomorrow. Everyone can listen (or watch) it then and draw your own conclusions. In the meantime, if you can't make it to the service tonight, I'd highly recommend watching Charles Billingsley in concert at 6:00.
Go to www.bellevue.org and click on "Bellevue Media - Live On Demand and On the Go." Then click on "Click here" under "Watch Live." Follow the directions to register if you haven't already, and enjoy!
To watch or listen to sermons in the archive, on that same page click on "Launch On Demand Player" under "On Demand" and choose a video or audio from the list. Not all services for all dates are archived. The videos are listed first, followed by the audios.
By the way, this morning's TV broadcast was from October 22, 2006.
I forgot to add that on the same page referenced in my last comment, in the upper righthand corner, there's a link for "Dr. Adrian Rogers Archive" where you'll find several months' worth of audios of Dr. Rogers' sermons.
One would have to know how to "make those speakers work" in order to listen. :<{
blt,
I feel you!
Mine work majically because I sure wouldn't know what to do if they didn't...
The mysterious Adam said...
--snipped ---
Just how much vacation time does the Church allow Steve Gaines to take each year and how many sick days is he allowed?
If no one know, does anyone know who can answer that question. I was told by the Chairman of the Deacons last year to ask a Deacon but so far, no Deacon knows!!
Signed...Stumped at BBC"
Dear "Stumped at BBC":
Judging by questions asked and few answered in recent months, the answer to that question is apparently being kept in a hermetically sealed mayonaise jar on Funk & Wagnels' front porch.
Carnac The Magnificent's
youngest sister
Yo! Man, this is something.
Sin in moderation,
What a concept! I will hurt you just a little, and then repent just a little.
Hmmm. How much is in my sin account? I'm calling to find out.
1-800-INDULGENCE. Catholic history. I knew it would pay someday.
Is that like being "kinda" pregnant?
concernedsbcer said,
Is that like being "kinda" pregnant?
oc says:
Yeah, kinda like only going half way to hell, sorta. Kinda like protecting a child molester, sorta. Kinda like telling people who say 'Amen' to shut up, sorta. Kinda like jumping an 'itty bitty fence'in an intimidation tactic, sorta. Kinda like having goons 'subdue' a 15 year old girl that was obviously set upon an assassination attempt of a very important dignitary, sorta.
Yep, half pregnant,sorta. More like Half witted. Sorta.
As several have expressed interest in seeing me shamble around a skateboard, a clarification is in order:
I could theoretically skateboard to Bartlett Lanes.
(No warranty is expressed or implied. Subject to availability and/or cancelation due to inclement weather. Cash value 1/10th of a cent. No refunds, substitutions or exchanges. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Not valid in Minnesota.)
I wrote:
"The live feeds and recordings come from 360networks.com, not BBC."
I meant "316networks.com."
alltojesus,
ROTFL!!!!!!!
Where did everyone else go today?
Who will be preaching at GBC when Dr. Spradlin's time is over?
concernedsbcer,
It sure is quiet tonight,
isn't it?
There must be another party we didn't get asked to.
Powermommy: I'm beginning to get a complex about that.
Ima: If you are still lurking, or if anyone else remembers....what was the link or post about Brad Stine and the "men's church"???
Shoot....I have too many already!!! :)
mmmmm...I think I missed the men's church? Is that another joke I don't get?
Powermommy: No, it's serious...there was a story several threads back about it...I think Ima told us about it.....it was at church in Nashville, I believe.......
Church for men....
I only remember parts of it but I do remember Brad Stine being mentioned...........
concernedSBCer said...
Where did everyone else go today?
Who will be preaching at GBC when Dr. Spradlin's time is over?
REPLY:
No decision has been made whether to have Guest speakers or look for another interim.
Church for men....
"I only remember parts of it but I do remember Brad Stine being mentioned........... "
Reply: maybe it's a dream . . .
Brad Stine's label is out of N'ville. I don't know about that Church for men and I lived there for the past 20 years.
It's only a dream.. . . . . .
concernedSBCer said...
Where did everyone else go today?
Well, I went to one of those eat-a-thons also known as a family reunion.
:}
concernedSBCer said...
Ima: If you are still lurking, or if anyone else remembers....what was the link or post about Brad Stine and the "men's church"???
REPLY:
Try this.
http://www.godmen.org/
Charlie: Thanks! I think this might be it but for some reason, I can't get past the home page.
We just watched one of his comedy DVD's and he's great! I remember the discussion we had was not complimentary.
"....what was the link or post about Brad Stine and the "men's church"???"
Here.
And the site that inspired it.
And this one.
There, that should keep y'all going a while!
Thought for the day:
We must recognize sin as a rebellion against God.
There are only two choices - to please self or to please God.
If we choose sin, we must suffer the consequences.
concernedSBCer said...
Charlie: Thanks! I think this might be it but for some reason, I can't get past the home page.
REPLY:
Click each tab twice. Don't ask me why you have to do that.
NASS,
Kinda reminds me of Spanky, Alfalfa and friends with their "men only" club.
All Star Lanes is the most centrally located for all - I bowled there in a children's league in the 60's. Memories . . . how sweet it is.
From the article: "The religion that began 2,000 years ago with Jesus Christ convincing 12 male disciples to travel throughout the Holy Land on foot has been "feminized" during the past century, Murrow said."
I wonder if this is why men, as a whole, have failed to "step up to the plate" at BBC?
And All Star Lanes is the only place that offers a deal where you can bowl for 2 hours for 8-10 bucks a person I think.
blt,
"Thought for the day:
We must recognize sin as a rebellion against God.
There are only two choices - to please self or to please God.
If we choose sin, we must suffer the consequences."
Charles Stanley had a good message on tv tonight. He spent a lot of time on this very topic. I don't know if there is any way to get it on the web but it was good. Surprising to hear a big name preacher talking about sin and consequenses.
2ooo years of Michal's despising David's in their heart is bound to have some negative impact..........
I thought we were supposed to be nice and do what our wives tell us to do? If we don't we get the despise routine.....
Another quote from the 2nd article: "A bias running through Murrow's book is the conviction that large churches that are focused on saving souls do the best job of ministering to men. Rick Warren, who is often quoted as a champion of risk and growth, is the model pastor."
Okay............yuk.
charlie fox wrote:
"Kinda reminds me of Spanky, Alfalfa and friends with their "men only" club."
Yeah.
The he man woman haters club.
Aw NASS, you beat me to it!
During the service at 11:00 Gaines spoke about how if any parents had beer or any other type of alcohol at home that they should pour it out immediately and never bring it back in. He said one should never step foot in a casino. He also said missionary dating was wrong which for some reason some members in the audience gave a laugh or some type of expression and he went on to say that any type of dating relationship was wrong unless it was strongly prayed about.
Isn't this pretty much an outgrowth of Promise Keepers? How often do you hear about them any more? This just seems to be the next fad to come down the pike.
InMemphis said...
During the service at 11:00 Gaines spoke about how if any parents had beer or any other type of alcohol at home that they should pour it out immediately and never bring it back in. He said one should never step foot in a casino. He also said missionary dating was wrong which for some reason some members in the audience gave a laugh or some type of expression and he went on to say that any type of dating relationship was wrong unless it was strongly prayed about.
10:24 PM, June 10, 2007
This coming from someone who says its ok to harbor a pedophile. (I'm referring to Gaines BTW).
After today's sermon, I'd like Dr. Gaines to explain what excessive sin is. Anything over your allotment?
New BBC Open Forum said...
charlie fox wrote:
"Kinda reminds me of Spanky, Alfalfa and friends with their "men only" club."
Yeah.
This topic sounds more like this.
Lynn wrote:
"And All Star Lanes is the only place that offers a deal where you can bowl for 2 hours for 8-10 bucks a person I think."
You mean people actually pay to wear ugly shoes that other people have worn just so they can throw a heavy, round object at a bunch of upright objects on the other side of the room? Wow!
"This coming from someone who says its ok to harbor a pedophile."
I see the irony of that wasn't lost on you either!
Actually NASS, I just pay to bowl. I wear my own shoes :D.
Lynn The Recycled Whammy said...
Actually NASS, I just pay to bowl. I wear my own shoes :D.
I bowl barefoot, or in sandals, like the original 12 disciples. And instead of throwing a heavy round object at the upright objects, I throw cubes of lime Jello. Makes it more fun and more interesting
I prefer bumpers...that way I actually get a respectable score!
Lynn wrote:
"I wear my own shoes :D."
You don't know how much better that makes me feel (for you). Really.
Visited GBC again and heard a powerful message on HOPE. There is a sweet spirit in that place. The church was knocked to its knees but by God's grace it is up and running again. Maybe the scattered sheep from Bellevue who are finding refuge there will be used of the Lord to strengthen and grow GBC even more.
Have not lost HOPE that Bellevue will once again return to her rich heritage and be restored to her leadership role among SB churches.
Our Mandate:
"Rejoicing in HOPE; patient in tribulation; continuing diligently in prayer" (Romans 12:12)
Our Consolation:
"Now the God of HOPE fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in HOPE through the power of the Holy Spirit" (Romans 15:13) :-)
klavierliebfrau said...
The mysterious Adam said...
--snipped ---
Just how much vacation time does the Church allow Steve Gaines to take each year and how many sick days is he allowed?
****You can ask Chuck Taylor. I beleive it was Chuck who told a friend that SG is the Pastor and he can take off as much time as he wants. This would be a paraphrase.
The conversations yesterday about excessive sin brought me back to what my SS lesson was about: obedience.
Do not bear false witness.
(Funny, doesn't mention "except for an "itty bitty lie")
Do not covet.
(except when you REALLY want new office carpet)
Do not steal.
(unless it involves using a church credit card and not paying taxes)
Remember the Sabbath Day.
(All okay on this one; says nothing about Wednesday Nights! Whew!)
I'm trying to play catch up a bit... what is this talk of "excessive sin" vs. sin in "moderation?" I only skimmed to catch up, so I may have missed the context of the conversation, but nonetheless...
Is a little sin (whatever that means) less offensive to a holy God than a lot of sin?
Are we forgetting this:
James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.
Yesterday's sermon notes.
Oh, I see...
Thank you, NASS.
I already have some gut reactions, but will be taking a closer look at that later.
Holding my tongue... for now.
At 9:30 service Dr.Gaines said that no alchoholic beverage should even be sitting on the same tabel at which YOU are dining. HE said that it would disqualify one from Christian service.
Apparently, this is a NEW requirement. If this had been in effect in December, we would be short one staff member.
HE said that it would disqualify one from Christian service.
Disqualify you from Christian service?
Ok, does anyone else see the irony in this statement?
aslansown said...
At 9:30 service Dr.Gaines said that no alchoholic beverage should even be sitting on the same tabel at which YOU are dining. HE said that it would disqualify one from Christian service.
Apparently, this is a NEW requirement. If this had been in effect in December, we would be short one staff member.
This absolutely boggles the mind. Sitting at a table where alcohol is present is a disqualification from Christian service, but a minister sexually abusing his own son for 18 months is not. Something is truely rotten in this man's mind.
Socwork!!!!! I've missed you!!!
:)
socwork,
I admire your restraint - I want to scream right now!
Exactly what is a "sin in moderation" - ok, how much illegal drugs CAN I do and still be in God's Will? How trashed can I get next weekend and show up for church and get forgiven because it was just an itty bitty amount of vodka. How many folks can I mow down in my drunken state and be allowed to say "well, it's just a moderate amount of dead people"
How moderate is acceptable? Please let me know because I'm gonna take the rest of the day off to go get drunk in moderation!!
karen
why said...
Thank God for Brother Steve's stance on Alcohol. He has always been that way.
He used to be equally hard on even the hint of sexual sin. Wonder what changed? I guess it's safe to assume Bro. Steve has never had a problem with alcohol.
Karen: I don't understand it either. And I too admire Socwork's restraint. I don't understand other posters who see it as a "good sermon" without taking a deep look at what he really said. Words DO have meanings....those meanings must be looked at carefully because they have repercussions.
"At 9:30 service Dr.Gaines said that no alchoholic beverage should even be sitting on the same tabel at which YOU are dining. HE said that it would disqualify one from Christian service."
I was in the 9:30 service, and he did not say anything about being disqualified for service. I don't remember the table comment either, but I will admit I could have missed that one. After all the months on this blog, I can assure you I would have noticed if he said having alcohol at the table disqualified you from service.
I would do a little further research on this before you accept it as fact.
Again, I will admit I could be wrong, but I am 99% sure that was not said.
Thanks concernedsbcer :)
This sermon outline is an example of one of the reasons why I'm so fond of expositional preaching (rather than topical).
It just seems like topical sermons leave so much room for taking verses out of context to support an agenda rather than looking into what the Word really says in context...
Since when are signs (or evidences) of salvation "health" and "blessings?" Paging Joel Osteen!
It is a shame that we can't get past the milk and on to meat but...
Why can't we get a pastor to tell us that it is not what goes into your mouth that defiles a person but what comes out of it? Which is worse...striking out at your neighbor in anger, telling your brother in the church to leave if they don't like it...
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
7:14 And when he had called all the people [unto him], he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one [of you], and understand:
7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
7:16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
Wouldn't it be great if someone would tell us that what one screams at their spouse, kids or neighbors does more to defile a person than that beer with the ribs or the wine with the steak.
Mans law not God's. Beware the leavening of the scribes and pharisees.
Luke11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, [ye] lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
11:47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
11:48 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and [some] of them they shall slay and persecute:
11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
socwork said...
It just seems like topical sermons leave so much room for taking verses out of context to support an agenda rather than looking into what the Word really says in context...
Precisely so. Topical preaching is foundational to the PDL precept of "preaching to felt needs." It's also real handy for pastors beset with personal sin to beat down the opposition.
Why spouted something about Steve's views on alcohol being light years away from PDL. Sorry folks, but big, fat, hairy deal!!
Is what PDL believes more important than what the Bible says? Or is the Bible not enough anymore that we need to resort to using PDL tenants to form an opinion on the use of alcohol? Has it really come to that?
karen
Why can't we get a pastor to tell us that it is not what goes into your mouth that defiles a person but what comes out of it? Which is worse...striking out at your neighbor in anger, telling your brother in the church to leave if they don't like it...
Wouldn't it be great if someone would tell us that what one screams at their spouse, kids or neighbors does more to defile a person than that beer with the ribs or the wine with the steak.
Amen ezekiel!
I just wrote how insane this sermon was and I was so upset,I hit the wrong button and lost it.
Bottom line...
he screwed up the fruits of the spirit,
we now need to be contacted by a soul winner to be saved.....and never mind the moderate sin stuff!!!!!
give this man a BIBLE!!!! If this is the way Baptists now teach....we can be absolutely anything.
DC...
you were suppose to clean the place up and real this loose cannon in!
What about the people that will not come to know the Lord because of this false teaching!!!
are there pastor police!!!!
aslansown wrote:
"At 9:30 service Dr.Gaines said that no alchoholic beverage should even be sitting on the same tabel at which YOU are dining. HE said that it would disqualify one from Christian service."
For now I'm with "bepatient" on this one. I don't recall him saying that (the second part), at least not in the 9:30 service. He did mention something similar to the first part though. Specifically he asked what you'd think if you saw him and Donna sitting in a restaurant with glasses of wine on their table. Or what you'd think if you saw him out chowing down on a big, ol' hamburger and saw a beer on the table.
Why not wait until the video/audio goes up on bellevue.org and listen to it for yourselves? I still didn't get the impression he was excusing sin "in moderation," just making the point (in other points in that section) that people tend to stoop to the lowest common denominator of sin. In other words, if you roll around in the mud with pigs, the pigs aren't going to magically become cleaner, rather you're going to come out muddier.
Thanks Nass for the clarification!
:)
But what about the signs of salvation????
or what we used to call the fruits of the spirit???
The" blessing fruit" goes along with what my EX deacon friend was told by one of the powers that be......
he was asked how his business was doing...my friend said Great!
The man asking couldn't believe his business was doing well....
BECAUSE he didn't go along with all the SG team.
So if SG gets sick again with his illness....or we to see that as a sign he is not saved?????
Whatever he said about alchohol I can deal with whether I agree or not.
Changing the signs of salvation and and how we are saved.....and that little issue with sin is major.
I bet after they know we are waiting for the sermon ...it won't be on the sight.
Do you think it is at the book store?????
powergmommy,
You are forgetting.....we don't need signs of salvation anymore.
All you have to do is go down front and pray the prayer. Then get baptised in water.
We seem to have conviently left off the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire that Jesus came to provide. No baptism of Holy Spirit and fire = no signs of salvation. We can't even get the baptism by water to repentance right...Unfortunately that seems to be the common belief these days. How else can we explain "doing whatever self wants" and claiming it is "under the blood".
Ezekiel,
I'M NOT THE ONE FORGETTING!!!!!!
I'm appalled!
Don't mix me into that twisted theology! Please!
Calm down, mom :)
I was being sarcastic...should have told you that.
I would never lump you in with that type of theology:)
What is very worrisom is that many do believe this way :(
Earlier in this thread, I believe it was in a post to Mom4, I said that Brother Bob Pittman of Kirby Woods Baptist Church does not preach on Wednesday nights. That is not exactly correct.
I have received information that Brother Bob does quite a bit of outside speaking because Kirby Woods has given him the freedom to do so. He does preach at Kirby when he is in town.
In any case, I find his preaching to be very true to scripture and a pure blessing in these troubled times.
Mary
Thank you....:) (I'm the emotional one)
The weak do believe and the others seem to not care!
It is amazing that the remaining deacons and ministers were not all in his office this morning.
James Dobson always had us writing and calling about one issue and the next. We boycotted all kinds of stuff.
Why is there no where to turn now?
powermommy said...
So if SG gets sick again with his illness....or we to see that as a sign he is not saved?????
I thought this too! If his MG flares up again will he preach on how you can lose your salvation??
Mary,
I heard Bob Pittman is not a fan of the Bellevue members who have questioned Steve Gaines' integrity.
I've also heard Bob Pittman was not pleased with Mike Spradlin's comments when Mike spoke on integrity behind any pulpit, including Bellevue's.
I've talked with folks from Kirby who say Bob Pittman is on the traveling speaking circut and is gone more than he is home during the week.
Traveling preachers can rake in a lot of money these days if they are in the circuit.
I hate to see this going on because the home church is paying large salaries to these guys for being their senior pastor. These pastors are delegating their duties while getting fat on double dipping at other churches.
I just can't see anything God honoring in this. If someone wants to be an evangelist, do so.
If not, stay at home and be a shepherd.
There's a big difference in a pastor speaking in another church occasionally but the schedule many of these guys maintain is incredible.
FYI,
Carol Pemberton has written a wonderful poem that has been added to savingbellevue.com.
Also, Ray Saba has written another letter to the deacons that is over there too.
(I was going to say "posted on savingbellevue.com", but I didn't want to confuse BT hee, hee!)
karen
Mary,
Does he still preach through a book.? Start to finish. He used to.
nathanb said...
Mary,
I heard Bob Pittman is not a fan of the Bellevue members who have questioned Steve Gaines' integrity.
I've also heard Bob Pittman was not pleased with Mike Spradlin's comments when Mike spoke on integrity behind any pulpit, including Bellevue's.
I've talked with folks from Kirby who say Bob Pittman is on the traveling speaking circuit and is gone more than he is home during the week.
Traveling preachers can rake in a lot of money these days if they are in the circuit.
REPLY:
Nathan, I have no first-hand knowledge of that so I cannot comment. My membership is still at BBC and I’ve only visited KWBC a few times and there is much yet that I don’t know.
I can tell you that the welcome I received from Brother Bob and from many of the members was refreshingly sincere, warm and gracious. Each visit has been a very positive and uplifting experience.
Mary
ezekiel said...
Mary,
Does he still preach through a book.? Start to finish. He used to.
2:37 PM, June 11, 2007
REPLY:
Please see my reply above to NathanB. I can only speak from my few visits to KWBC but I would say that he appears to do exactly that.
Mary
NASS wrote:
aslansown wrote:
"At 9:30 service Dr.Gaines said that no alchoholic beverage should even be sitting on the same tabel at which YOU are dining. HE said that it would disqualify one from Christian service."
For now I'm with "bepatient" on this one. I don't recall him saying that (the second part), at least not in the 9:30 service.
...
Why not wait until the video/audio goes up on bellevue.org and listen to it for yourselves?
It also occurred to me that the audio would settle the matter -- but only if someone taped it themselves. The media department is known for their fortuitous edits. Or they could simply use the 11:00 service, where Steve didn't step in it.
mary,
I can vouch for nathan's information. He is correct.
"At 9:30 service Dr.Gaines said that no alchoholic beverage should even be sitting on the same tabel at which YOU are dining. HE said that it would disqualify one from Christian service"
Someone tell me the pastor did not say this because if he did it means he believes a man can have extramarital, incestuous, gay sex and be in the ministry. He cannot, however, sit at the same table with a bottle of alcohol.
RIDICULOUS!
The man has no judgment or discernment whatsoever.
The quote noted on the sermon notes for 6/10: Did he mean something like "Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it" by Georges Santayana?
I had conversation with a Bellevue minister this morning and I mentioned this to him. He thought that 2 quotes were combined into the on the sermon notes, but he wasn't 100% positive.
This is not like a slip of the tongue during a sermon (like saying 1 Timothy, but meaning 2 Timothy). This quote really bothers me in that is says "sins in moderation" - this went out to all who attended BBC on Sunday and it's still out on the website. For those just searching for sermon notes could get the impression that "sin in moderation" is okay - hey, if it's in the sermon notes of a noted preacher, moderate sin must be okay. See what I mean? These sermon notes were written up and printed and NO ONE at BBC had the chutzpah to ask Steve "are you sure this is what you meant to say?" Taken out of context of the entire sermon, this quote could be badly misconstrued.
karen
Just went back and looked at 9:30 service on-line.
After asking if we would be bothered seeing Dr. Gaines with an alchoholic beverage Dr. Gaines makes the statement that he would be bothered if he saw anyone else in the audience with alchohol.
Dr. Gaines then states that "There is no separate standard for the preacher and the people in the pew".
After talking about the effect a wrong influence it would have on our children Dr. Gaines then states:
"You cannot be a soul-winner and a social drinker at the same time."
The inference from this is that you are not an effective servant, nor can you be one if you social drink. His statement regarding no double standard qualifies the effectiveness of professional christian service as well as laity.
My original statement said "it would disqualify one from Christian service." Just as Dr. Gaines implies. The readers made the leap to infer I meant professional service only.
I personnaly feel that Dr. Gaines did not adequately make the case for total abstenance. It appeared that he merely posed platitudes.
I saw something in writing....
can't remember what or when now....
that went along with nathanb's insight concerning the Kirby Woods minister...sad.
alltojesus has a point about the audio ...especially since we have been discussing it.
Weren't we able to purchase the sermons at the bookstore after the service before????
Are we going backwards in that area also????
IF SG IS hitting the alcohol issue hard...IF....
wonder if that is a "Clinton move"...some deflection away from some of his other stands...or lack of?????
just wondering.....
NathanB and SocWork,
Thanks to both of you for the yellow flag of caution. Your comments are troubling to me and I will attempt to obtain some facts regarding this information. And I will keep an open mind until those facts are known.
I realize there could be many reasons for the circuit preaching, if that is indeed true. Perhaps he doesn’t receive a mega salary and the congregation has given him permission to preach elsewhere to compensate. I do not know the answer, so rather than grasp at straws; I will try to get some facts.
Mary
Do you think Steve Gaines will be voting for this motion at the SBC this week?
Oh wow... who would even dare to hazard a guess about that one!? I sure would like to know though...
Once again, this could be "unchartered waters" for ol' Stevieboy.
Not sure what scripture or the church requires about stuff like this despite being a Pastor for over 20 years!
If he does vote for it, it will probably be because people are watching him...or at least he thinks they care enough to watch him.
that's exactly what I thought johnthebaptist!
This question is a little bit behind, but in catching up today Whammy Lynn said -
"He also said missionary dating was wrong which for some reason some members in the audience gave a laugh or some type of expression..."
Although not a young chicken, I have managed to stay abreast of current things; however, I do not have a clue what missionary dating is.
If this is something that needs to be answered in private, please do so. I just want to know what the term means, just cause I'm curious about everything.
Thanks.
Lily
johnthebaptist,
How COULD he vote for this????
He was afraid to let the church hear that the SBC had clarified sexual morality for ministers in 2002!
(just in case the Bible wasn't clear)
Better to deflect to drinking.
I would personally rather see SG eating a hambuger and drinking a beer than allowing a sexual predator to remain on church staff.
Thanks BLT,
I was afraid to ask....no clue either.
Missionary dating: A Christian dating a non-Christian despite the fact that God's Word instructs us not to have such relationships. (IOW, being "unequally yoked.")
Thanks Socwork. I have never heard that term, yet much to my shame, have been guilty of it.
So sorry,
Back when I dated...no cool terms!
You were just going to hell for everything....even swimming with...oh no...boys!!
Come on people. This 'ignorant of sin' goes just so far. It is flat stupid to think that Steve is innocent about what is and what has gone on under his 'leadership'.
So, instead of addressing those things, he deflects to something most will agree about. Something vitally more important than child molesting, more important than silencing an 'amener', more important than an 'itty bitty' fence, more important than intimidation of a 15 yr. old girl.
Yep. That will work. Beer.
Just sayin',
oc.
oc,
Worked for Clinton.
BLT said...
This question is a little bit behind, but in catching up today Whammy Lynn said -
"He also said missionary dating was wrong which for some reason some members in the audience gave a laugh or some type of expression..."
Although not a young chicken, I have managed to stay abreast of current things; however, I do not have a clue what missionary dating is.
If this is something that needs to be answered in private, please do so. I just want to know what the term means, just cause I'm curious about everything.
Thanks.
Lily
Lily, I was discussing this with a co-worker of mine today who was there when he said that. The way she explained it to me is, what Gaines meant was, we shouldn't date non-christians and then try to convert them. While yes, we should be bringing people to christ, having that kind of relationship is not a good idea. More than likely, you'll change your ways to the non-christian than you changing his or her ways to yours.
I hope I said that in a way ya'll can understand. If not, I apologize.
Now that I have moved past that missionary dating thing.......
johnthebaptist (like your new name) said in reference to Stevie's vote at convention:
"If he does vote for it, it will probably be because people are watching him...or at least he thinks they care enough to watch him."
Reply:
Always the narcissist.
whammy lynn, I like your definition.
I guess missionary dating is sorta like moderate sin???
This url is for the SBC news blog. They will be posting events at the SBC Tuesday. The web page has a link that gives the convention agenda also.
http://www.bpnews.net/blog/article.asp?id=1&title=Welcome+to+Instant+News+%2E%2E%2E
The SBC convention theme is
II Chronicles 7:14
Missionary dating: A Christian dating a non-Christian... with the intent of winning the person to Christ. This fit in with his "we adopt their sinful ways" and "accelerate their sinfulness" points. He said win them to Christ first, and only then perhaps date them.
blt wrote:
"I guess missionary dating is sorta like moderate sin???"
Or getting the cart before the horse.
At the end Of Ray Saba letter
he says "meet me at the crosses"
I like the sound of that....what does it mean??????
I thought about "missionary dating" someone once, but then I thought it might make my wife upset.
junk,
I was checking up on you on that other blog.....
I think W finally revealed his "beef"
nathanb said...
Mary,
I've also heard Bob Pittman was not pleased with Mike Spradlin's comments when Mike spoke on integrity behind any pulpit, including Bellevue's.
socwork said...
mary,
I can vouch for nathan's information. He is correct.
REPLY:
I also know 100% that this is correct. I also know 100% that he let Dr. Mike know of his displeasure.
Dr. Spradlin spoke the Truth from scripture. That it stepped on toes......so be it.
Yep... sometimes the truth hurts.
Proverbs 27:5
Better is open rebuke
than hidden love.
GMommy said: "I think W finally revealed his "beef" ....
and????
why....maybe Nass is wrong and you are not Mr Deacon.
When you say the same ol boring nothing,I see the scowl on your face and hear your mean scratchy voice.
You have your elementary ,sexual deviant protecting pastor.....go slide in the mud with him scowling your hate filled boring same ol...
.be careful not to scowl too loudly or he will send his guys after you.
oops...forgot to tell ol why he/she sounds more like a cranky old woman.
concernedsbcer,
go read it...you'll see....I don't want to hash it out and get him going again.
But it's the same beef alot of people had over the years with a similiar background.
GMommy: I've tried to lurk over there and I just can't stomach it. (on so many levels) Never mind....I don't even want to know Why's problem.
concernedsbcer...
not why...watching
Ahhh....gotcha.....now I KNOW I don't want to know.......
;)
c,
your funny.
Socwork said,
Yep... sometimes the truth hurts.
Proverbs 27:5
Better is open rebuke
than hidden love.
Reply: Sometimes it hurts. Sometimes it HAMMERS!!!
Just sayin'.
David Brown posted on the blog that Nass gave us the link for at 8:18
THERE'S A NEW TOPIC FOR THOSE WHO'D LIKE TO MOVE UP.
Thank you,
NBBCOF
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