From the FBC Jacksonville blog come these reviews of the book Spending God's Money - Extravagance and Misuse in the Name of Ministry by Mary Kinney Branson.
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565 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 565 Newer› Newest»Junkmail said, "Don't get me wrong ... I am certainly no apologist for or supporter of Catholicism! I'm also no stranger to their doctrines. But I will try to make opportunity to watch the message you linked to."
Reply:Glad to know you intend to watch it Junk. Cloud takes the camera to Rome and the history he refers to comes alive on screen. It really is remarkable.
My mom was Catholic so I have a foot in the door on that one too. I was not raised Catholic, but certainly exposed to it.
Junk said, "At the risk of sounding like I am contradicting what I said earlier, there are certain key phrases here that sound "emergent" -- things like "postmodern" and "his desire to appeal to those experimenting with other flavors of spirituality". To be clear, I'm only saying that one must be cautious and not assume that (1) because it is being marketed as a "Christian” book that it is automatically biblically sound or that (2) because some emergent sounding words are used that it automatically biblically unsound."
Comment: Junk and others...the thing is you MUST educated yourself to KNOW the DIFFERENCE. Otherwise, one might fall for some of this JUNK!
I worked with a couple of devout Catholic women a few years ago. It was very interesting, listening to them talk. What amazed me the most was the authority given to the heirarchy of their church. Never mind the God's Word, these men were the final word. I never understood how they thought they had that authority.
This is for junk:
We love to take our grandchildren on nature walks in the woods near our home. My husband bought them little back packs and with shiney bright water bottles. In their back packs, they carry basic first aid (for stings and scrapes) a small snack, some bug spray,and a nature book he updates for them.
They are learning to identify animal tracks, trees and plants, and yes, animal "scat". They must carry a walking stick. They are warned to watch their feet, not to jump over fallen tree trunks, stay away from the poison ivy, etc. Because they are wary, it is safe to take them into the woods.
You don't want to look for or seek out trouble but you had sure better recognize it on your walk.
Churchmouse: That is a huge issue for me too. Someone very close to me has converted to Catholocism. The credibility he gives to the Pope is astounding. The Pope says we shouldn't be in Iraq.....poof, we shouldn't be in Iraq. (Not a can of words, but a turn around from this person's previous beliefs)Whatever the Pope says...end of discussion. I keep asking, "What does God say?" and get an aswer to the effect of..."but the Pope says this." The failure to believe and move on the Priesthood of the Believer is (one) of my biggest issues because that is foundational. God speaks to all those who are His. I am not saying there are not Catholic Christians, but I am saying that some of their beliefs do not square with scripture.
SOTL: So glad you had a wonderful trip! There was indeed sad viola music hovering over Six Flags Atlanta yesterday......that's probably what you heard.....
maybejustmaybe said...
Why the need to call it a different name if it's the same thing?
REPLY:
If that is what I conveyed, it is certainly not what I meant! There is much more than terminology involved here.
As born again Christians, we have prayer meetings, not prayer “stations” and it doesn’t really matter where we have them, does it? We can have scriptural prayer meetings in a sanctuary, a home, a hospital, a campsite, a park, in Beijing or in our backyard.
We don’t need specific prayer “stations” set up by man (any man for any reason) to help us to pray. We are to pray as we are led by the Holy Spirit and when we don’t feel His leading, we are to pray anyway and He will pray for us according to His will.
I’m sorry if I did not make myself clear and I apologize to any that I may have confused. That’s one of the dangers of trying to keep up with the blog while on the fly doing forty-eleven dozen other things. :-)
Is this clear now or do I need to start over? If so, it will have to wait for the week-end.
Mary
Just catching up. Seems a whole lot barges can float down the river in a couple of days. :-)
junk wrote:
"I was just throwing in the comment about being careful not to overeact to words as my own little lagniappe, for the benefit of all who blog here, for what it's worth."
NASS pauses to consult a dictionary....
I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader, but with all this talk of beaches (thank you SOTL and viola section), I'd just like to recommend a little seafood place in Destin, FL called Louisiana Lagniappe. Their "Seafood Lagniappe" is one of my most memorable meals and not to be missed if you're headed for the Redneck Riviera this summer.
Strugglingtostay,
We just keep doing it...committing adultery, worshipping idols and turning to Egypt (man) for help. I guess since 40 days of purpose is not working out to well, we now turn to Blue Jazz. Maybe we can garner something out of this new book that will help us see the light...
I was talking to an active Deacon the other day and he told me that Steve was saying that he was tired of all the mess and from here on out he was going to just focus on the WORD. Period. End of discussion.
That poses a pretty important question and that is "what have we been focused on in the last 2 years?". Now we hear we ar all abuzz about "Blue Jazz".
Folks, Blue Jazz, Purpose driven church, purpose driven life, ne age emergent mess, labrinths or anything but the WORD is going to get us right where Israel found herself. Right back in captivity. Only our captivity is spiritual.....
OC, I think you can find the answer to your question here. How can we be happy and experience the victory in Jesus that we are supposed to have when we are in captivity? Israel was not a happy place before the invasion nor afterward when they were in Babylon (the world).
Jesus came to set up His kingdom. And as part of that kingdom, we just have to shake off the sin, adultery and harlotry we commit and claim the promise. Endure the refining fire and become holy, an acceptable sacrifice to God. Free from the bondage of sin. I think that is where we find our joy as christians.
I finished Mark this morning. Among other things that really caught my attention was Jesus, when He cursed the fig tree. (Mark 11:14). Now I thought Jesus was all about love, mercy and grace. Peace, Peace.
I pondered this for several days and was led to Jer 8:13 then Ez 6. We up all the bones of the prophets, leaders and people of Israel when we look at the OT. And yet we look upon those bones and commit the same sin they did. EZ 6 tells us where our bones will lay if we don't repent. Isaiah 44 tells us what our Idols are made of and how they are made. Then Luke 13:6-9 tells us how he deals with the pretty fig tree. The tree with leaves and no fruit. Can you see BBC and ourselves here?
He is only going to dig around us and fertilize us for a given time. If we don't produce fruit...This applies to us individually and corporately. IMO
All of Grace...
You just nailed it!
Ima
allofgrace said...
I believe the reason people jump on the "next big thing" in modern Christianity, such as PD, Blue Like Jazz, etc. is that deep down they really don't believe that the Bible and the God of the Bible is sufficient...they have a need to re-invent both to create a God and a faith that suits what their itching ears want to hear. They worship the god of their imaginations...who they WANT Him to be, rather than who He IS as revealed in Scripture. "Ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of the truth."
7:43 AM, June 01, 2007
Worth reposting AOG
From Wikipedia.com
Blue Like Jazz is the second book by Donald Miller. This semi-autobiographical work, subtitled "Non-Religious Thoughts on Christian Spirituality," is a collection of essays and personal reflections chronicling the author's growing understanding of the nature of God and Jesus, and the need and responsibility for an authentic personal response to that understanding. Much of the work centers on Miller's experiences with friends and fellow students while attending Reed College, a liberal university in Portland, Oregon.
The book's popularity is due to its personable style and seemingly relevant content which most appeals to twentysomething and thirtysomething, post-modern Christians in the emerging church movement. His writings have often been compared to fellow Christian memoirist, Anne Lamott. (who is known for her unconventional Christianity.)
Comment:
So, Blue Like Jazz is making the rounds at BBC. Why am I not surprised. It is Emergent and it will resonate in style and content—it is cool and Christian. And it is extremely unhelpful. There are two antidotes for Blue Like Jazz: (1) to reintroduce young Christians to the biblical Jesus: the person who died an agonizing death for their sins and who listens to their prayers. (2) to begin the battle against the cool.
The godly must begin to prove in the pulpit, in sermons, in writing, and in their lives that Christianity is the deadly enemy of the cool. And prove, once and for all, that the cool is the Western, postmodern entertainment driven culture that has taught us and our children for years.
If you haven’t purchased this book, don’t waste your money nor your time. It is more of the slow boil technique.
In Ezekiel's post..."I was talking to an active Deacon the other day and he told me that Steve was saying that he was tired of all the mess and from here on out he was going to just focus on the WORD. Period. End of discussion."
Comment: Ezekiel, I am not sure who Gaines was supposed to have said this too, but all I can muster is...duhhhhhhhhh?
Wouldn't one think that is what he came to Bellevue to do in the first place? I thought this was why God called men into this position? It doesn't say in the Bible anywhere for these men to consult the likes of Rick Warren or Bill Hybels does it? I realize I being lame...but come on, why are these guys making it so hard on themselves? It is simple...it is Jesus plus nothing! Right?
And Ezekiel...I enjoyed your post immensely. Very well put and right on the mark. Thanks...
Ima
I would not put too much stock in anything Gaines says. He says whatever fits the occassion and for his own edification.
He may want to watch out for Don Miller, though. Some mega's have been cancelling him because they found out he has written against mega's. Funny how he was more than willing to take their speaking fee!
I have mentioned a couple of times about the list of authors to avoid that I would post for you. Bud Press has done his homework and I find him to be credible. I have checked out many of these authors. I hope you will do the same. You might also want to check out his 'home' website, other than just this list.
Another thing that might interest you...go to Lifeway online. Select Keyword from the search options and type in phrases from the emergent/emerging/new age/PD/CGM/contemplative movements, such as labyrinths, contemplative, lectio divina, mysticism, etc. A list of books on these subjects will appear. You won't get an active description of these books there. Select a book you think you would like to learn more about...then go to Amazon.com for an accurate description of the said book. Proves to be very interesting. You might start with Madam Guyon...a RC mystic who transcended into a spiritual realm through an altered state of consciousness and met our Higher Being face to face. This is comtemplative prayer. They are teaching contemplative prayer to our youth...in our churches. Lifeway sells her books. :( And others like her.
This is the masterlist.
Lin said, "He may want to watch out for Don Miller, though. Some mega's have been cancelling him because they found out he has written against mega's. Funny how he was more than willing to take their speaking fee!"
Reply: This is too funny! Follow the money...
OFFLINE...
Churchmouse said...
allofgrace said...
I believe the reason people jump on the "next big thing" in modern Christianity, such as PD, Blue Like Jazz, etc. is that deep down they really don't believe that the Bible and the God of the Bible is sufficient...they have a need to re-invent both to create a God and a faith that suits what their itching ears want to hear. They worship the god of their imaginations...who they WANT Him to be, rather than who He IS as revealed in Scripture. "Ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of the truth."
7:43 AM, June 01, 2007
Worth reposting AOG
And again! :) AOG, I think you've really hit on the heart of the manner with few words. May we all always recognize our utter dependence on Him and His complete sufficiency!
Is everyone enjoying this beautiful day?
imaresistor said...
Comment: Junk and others...the thing is you MUST educated yourself to KNOW the DIFFERENCE. Otherwise, one might fall for some of this JUNK!
Are you using my name in vain? :)
I completely agree on how important it is to know the diffrence, so as not to be caught up into something that may sound good or Christian on the surface, but is at best a waste of time and energy and at worst spiritually destructive.
BTW, after reading more reviews on Blue Like Jazz and some pages from it, I agree it relects an "emergent" world-view. I can see why some might be attracted to the author's approach of personal transparency concering his own struggles and sins and doubts, and that the current generation might like the informal, folksy writing style. I don't have enough info to say that it has major doctrinal errors or would be spiritually harmful, but I can say confidently that there are much better resourses available out there to encourage one in their faith and walk with Jesus.
Churchmouse said...
You don't want to look for or seek out trouble but you had sure better recognize it on your walk.
I agree -- it's even good to be on the lookout and to raise the alert when something doesn't look right, so it can be cautiously examined. I only meant to say that we don't have to run away shreiking when we see a stick a half mile down the path that resembles a snake. But the point is well taken that I'd rather my kids were safe than sorry and ran away if they couldn't tell rather than rush over and pick it up to see if it bites!
Are we walking down the same path yet?
concernedSBCer said...
Not a can of words,...
A can of words ... is that anything like the can of Diet Dr. Pepper I spewed on the screen when I saw this? :)
Lin said...
He may want to watch out for Don Miller, though. Some mega's have been cancelling him because they found out he has written against mega's.
This points to a reason not to paint with too broad a brush. While common thoughts can be detected between Seeker, Purpose Driven, and Emerging churches, there are some key differences as well. Some of the common thinking of folks in Emerging is a reaction to the big numbers focus of PD and Seeker churches. In some aspects it is like a pendulum swing from one extreme to another, with basic biblical Christianity being dead center.
replying to 32yrs@bbc
As a member of FBCJAX and a former memphian, we don't have near the problem in leadership that you have a BBC.
I don't think you need to drag my church into the mess that is Bellevue! Our problem here in JAX, we have a blogger that doesn't like the new pastor! I feel we don't have the integrity problem you have at BBC. Yes our pastor drives a nice car and is building a nice house, but he's not protecting child molesters, jumping fences and bad mouthing his flock.
The FBCJAX bloggers list of grievances, is petty alongside Gaines's list!
Oh goodie! Our pastor is worse that your pastor! :)
Whoooo Hoooooo!
Sorry, I couldn't help myself!
Hope you know this was said in jest, I'm not trying to be offensive.
karen
Karen, You're funny! You Rock!
oc said...
Karen, You're funny! You Rock!
Me too!!! :)
Hey Karen - I just read all the conversation about dancing around in your underwear doesn't make you Madonna. I was sitting here at my desk screaming "WORKING GIRL...WORKING GIRL!!!!!" So, thanks for confirming for my co-workers that I am, in fact, insane.
Oh, you guys, this is just the last straw. I can't take any more!
My daughter just called to tell me that Hogzilla, the giant pig that was killed last week was someone's pet pig and slept with their little chihuahua. (Can't spell that.) And the family that killed him made sausage out of him.
Junk: Please cut me some slack! :)
I am on vacation, stealing minutes on the computer and typing on a confounded lap top which I find enormously difficult!!! Oh for my desktop and keyboard!!!
BTW....can of worms!!!!
Michelle,
Thank you very much for you effort, but Charlie did win the contest! :)
Your co-workers probably thought you were giving yourself some self motivation by screaming WORKING GIRL, WORKING GIRL!! Feel better? :)
Churchmouse,
Are you sure about that? I heard it was a feral pig, but I could be wrong. They did make sausage from him. Go to monsterpig.com to check out the pictures - he was JYNORMOUS!!!
karen
My granddaughter saw it on the Fox News Channel. Someone had raised him from a baby. His name was Fred.
churchmouse,
I went over to foxnews.com and the pig used to owned by some people, but apparantly gave it or sold it to someone who let it go a while ago. Seems it's not technically a "feral pig" from birth, but had become one. Still kinda sad though. How are we gonna break this to piglet? :(
I can see it now -- explaining to friends about the huge boar's head mounted and hanging on the family room wall. "Yeah, that was Fred, the neighbor's pet pig. We shot him 14 times and then nade sausage out of him.
you tell piglet, I'm ain't gonna! :@)
Karen,
Oh, I didn't THINK of Piglet. Maybe we should delete all this. What do you think?
Thing is on the pig...if I found that thing wondering around in my back yard, I'd have to shoot it too! A pet? So I guess this is their purpose driven pig? :)
(I don't believe I said that!)
I don't know Piglet well enough to break this to her. Honestly, it would be better for someone else to do it.
Maybe we should not even mention it. Just put it in the little can?
Churchmouse said...
Karen,
Oh, I didn't THINK of Piglet. Maybe we should delete all this. What do you think?
Hey, guys...fear not! I've never met her in person, but I feel pretty confident that Piglet isn't really a pig ...
"How are we gonna break this to piglet? :("
Reply: Just tell her it was a megapig. :( A pig deal! I gotta go...
Oh, Ima, shame on you. That poor old pig.
Karen, Ima thinks he was PD.
This is what a Purpose Driven Pig looks like.
Yeah, it was a PIG DEAL. =)
It was quoted on Fox that the pig was squealing, "It's not about you!" Now, I had better look for that little can for sure.
Come on folks...there is really nothing to worry about. Piglet is a piglet...you know, very dainty. This pig...the megapig is, well you know...he is mega. Big. A big pig. Course, I have never seen Piglet...she could be (I really hate to say this!)...she could be a megapiglet! How do we find out? Churchmouse...you ask her.
junk99mail said...
"This is what a Purpose Driven Pig looks like."
RE: ROFL!!!
Oh my Junk! Look what you have done...you have gone and cast your pearls to the megapig!
You win the prize junk!
And no, I am not taking your name in vaid! Missed that one!
Junk, I am gasping for air.
Mouse...
Me too...
Mouse...I just knew it was going to be a picture of Rick Warren! Boy was I surprised! Tears are running down my face...
Well, Karen went running off. I'll bet she is telling Piglet. Piglet will read what we have said about Fred and how he was PD. I don't think Piglet was ever feral, so maybe we are OK.
Ima said,
Tears are running down my face...
mouse said: yeah, mine too.
Fun Facts about Hogzilla, The mega pig:
It was reported that he made enough sausage to feed every person in Arkansas for a year.
He was shot by an 11 year old in Alabama. Where we all know every 11 year old has a gun for hunting. This would NOT happen up Nawth. They would just run away and no one would believe them when they described the mega pig.
"While common thoughts can be detected between Seeker, Purpose Driven, and Emerging churches, there are some key differences as well. "
Junk, you are so right. The seekers have a 'purpose' and the emergents are having a 'conversation'.
fbcjax wrote: I feel we don't have the integrity problem you have at BBC. "
Is your pastor's wife on the payroll? Any of his kids?
Offer to cut him back to 60,000 grand a year with no perks beyond any other staffer and see if he stays.
Just sayin'
churchmouse said,
I don't know Piglet well enough to break this to her. Honestly, it would be better for someone else to do it.
Maybe we should not even mention it. Just put it in the little can?
Reply: Uh oh, Spam. We're talking about Dr. Loney's next meal.
OC said
Reply: Uh oh, Spam. We're talking about Dr. Loney's next meal.
churchmouse says: Ohhhhh. I was thinkin of a different little can... Oh, this just gets worser and worser... =)
You know, a pig that big would have made enough Spam to take care of Dr. Loney for a year at least!
Ya know....that 11 year old kid was getting tons of harassing e-mails and DEATH THREATS for killing that pig.
concernedsbcer said,
"You know, a pig that big would have made enough Spam to take care of Dr. Loney for a year at least!"
Yeah, and if it was alive he would have transportation when his Country Squire gives up the ghost. Which is better than what I have,...You listening, Socwork Winfrey?
lynn said,
Ya know....that 11 year old kid was getting tons of harassing e-mails and DEATH THREATS for killing that pig.
oc says: I'm not surprised, left wing liberal wackos.
So, Hey, why don't we gather at the court house tomorrow with signs that say 'pigs are people too' and 'no death to pigs.' We could sing, "all we are saying...is give swine a chance. all we are saying...is give swine a chance...
So... what do you think? Pork and Roll!
Piglet, you'll be our ring leader. Sorry Karen, I know that's your job. Just step aside this time. :)
Oh Ya'll,
I'm laughing so hard I'm crying!
No PIG deal.... More tears...
My wife and I were going to watch a funny movie and now I'm in the mood. Yea!
Padroc
If I could interject something of a more serious nature now...
A BBC member e-mailed a local SBC pastor this week and asked him if he would mind answering this one simple question:
"If you had a staff member come to you and confess he had sexually molested his child years ago, or if you found out, would you allow that person to stay on your staff?"
This was the pastor's answer:
"I am sad that our friends at Bellevue have to ask such questions. We continue to pray for the help and healing of that great church.
"We have a standard policy at _______ under which such a scenario would be covered: the safety of children always comes first. No person (staff or volunteer) would be allowed to remain in a position who had ever been involved in any illegal or immoral activity involving a child – period. The staff member would immediately be dismissed and authorities would be contacted – without exception. We also do our best to be on the front side of that scenario with all staff and volunteers who work with minors submitting to a background check for any such activity or crimes. We realize the system is not fool-proof, but it is a step toward reasonable liability and our responsible concern for children, of which, the latter matters most.
"I hope this answer helps. Please feel free to share it with all concerned."
It just got awfully quiet in here. Did that last comment suck all the air out of the room or something?
The kicker is, Steve Gaines does not see a problem with having a confessed child molester on staff to this day. Even after all the controversy and blowback, he has said several times that he would bring Paul Williams back on staff if he could. Wonder who's stopping him?
Ya'll. I don't know why I feel this way but I feel I need to share that I have been to the dark side today. So I'll share. I have had some engagement with watchinghisstory, both on this blog before, and on Mikey's blog today. Although my email is available, watching has not emailed me a challenge. Instead he veils his threats, (which by the way does not worry me at all,) and he does this on Mikeys blog. I got caught up in it, and got called on because of my bad behavior by bepatient, and had to explain,kinda, and even had to apologize, kinda. This is what was said.
bepatient said,
oc,
for the record, the only people engaging watchinghisstory anymore are the people from the "closed forum". If you wanted him gone, I don't understand why you would come here and argue with him?
oc says: bepatient, you are so right. I admit I am wrong and I repent. I come here to see what the so called 'closed forum' haters have to say, making sure I have all angles to the problems. And I have learned. And I have learned alot. But then I see a punk trying to call me out, behind my back, and I admit I got a bit 'fleshly'.
So, bepatient, thankyou for calling me on this. It reminded me that some battles aren't worth fighting. And it's not fair that some don't have the weapons to do so. You will get tired of him pretty quick. Don't send him back to us.
oc.
7:25 PM, June 01, 2007
Anyway, I'm not going over there anymore. I get in enough trouble here, and you guys love me. Just sayin',
I am going to ask a question, then be quiet.
One of the nice things about living in the south is that people want to know right away where you go to church. They don't mind asking you right up front.
Am I the only one who feels uncomfortable telling people that my membership is at Bellevue? There is usually an awkwardness. What do we say next?
I hope other ministers have compassion for us -- like the one you mentioned, Nass. But, I am not sure they do. The minister who blogged yesterday did not invite us to visit his church. I got the feeling he thought we might be "trouble" because we were examining his church's website. I feel a bit "tainted" these days.
oc said:
Anyway, I'm not going over there anymore. I get in enough trouble here, and you guys love me. Just sayin',
Reply: That is a good idea, not to go over there. Logic and reason are not a part of this "war" we are fighting. Why subject yourself to that?
churchmouse,
from a minister's standpoint, inviting people to his church who are already churched, well, may be seen as 'prosyletizing'. He did not ask because he was doing the right thing. I admire him for that.
Just sayin'.
oc,
Thanks, I didn't think of that.
Churchmouse,
I think ministers like the one that wrote the email DO have compassion for us. KB from Leawood has expressed compassion ,also.
But still they don't want to offend.
The minister from Bartlett seemed nice but you are right...he didn't offer anything. He just wanted to defend any misconceptions we had about his church or the prayer walk.
He may not realize how informed we are!
I don't remember WHAT he said to ima but it made me uncomfortable.
I am concerned that many SBC ministers aren't sensitive/alert to the cultural influences coming into the churches.
When the ideas and attitudes are trickling down from the SBC it may be easier to excuse or rationalize.
BUT...to the minister in the email,
Thank you!
Be careful what you say about someone else today because what you say will hang around your neck tomorrow and people will repeat it to you followed by, "I told you so"
The harvest of reaping!
OC,
I can't think from your position but,
I think he could have been something nearer to compassionate or comforting.
He was closest to defensive.
alltojesus,
What IS holding SG back?
churchmouse,
Here’s my story.
I was talking with a waitress one evening not to long ago about Jesus and the word of God. As I was checking out I asked if she had a bible and did she read it. She said no to both questions and then asked if I might give her a New Testament to read, and she said yes. As I gave her a copy of the "The Christian Life New Testament" she asked where I went to church and did I like it.
Now I'm telling you all... I changed the subject and didn't answer her question. As I passed through the doors on my way to my car it hit me. I was ashamed to answer.
I got in my car started the engine and then cut it off. I couldn't drive. What had I done? What an awful feeling. Ashamed to say where I went to church. To ashamed to say "my wife and I would love for you to go with us some Sunday".
It still bothers me.
PowerMommy: I took his posts that way as well; initially very defensive but I did sense a feeling of compassion later in his posts. I think there is still a lot of misinformation out there and there is still denial about the whole mess. I also think in the SBC there is still a majority thought about "growing churches" by nickels and noses, so what are they supposed to say when there's a vocal group decrying this church growth thought?
I still believe we are in the minority. Not necessarily a bad place...just sayin'
powerGmommy said...
alltojesus,
What IS holding SG back?
Maybe it's the threat of more training.
It is with much sorrow and shame that I join my blog friends today, for I have spent the entire day placing threatening phone calls to the 11 year old that murdered Fred.
I regret that the story about said calls in the media has brought shame on pigs and bloggers everywhere and for that I am full of regret.
I have chosen to forgive the perpetrator of this heinous act and, instead, join Fred's family during this time of mourning.
Let us all remember Fred for the big pig that he was - and not for the sausage which he became....(sob) :0(
powergmommy said,
OC,
I can't think from your position but,
I think he could have been something nearer to compassionate or comforting.
He was closest to defensive.
oc says: I'm not sure what you are really saying here. His church was being accused of unholy practices. I think he should get defensive. And I'll ask you this, if you were a member of that church and felt you were doing nothing wrong, but being accused, wouldn't you want the pastor to defend you? Being a Shepherd often means defending the flock. This has been missing at BBC, where the shepherd would rather beat the flock and leave them to the wolves. It's no wonder many are having a hard time knowing a good shepherd from a wolf. So I don't blame you for being suspicious. But I would encourage you that there are some with pure hearts, who love their sheep, and know that those under their care belong to Jesus Christ and also know that they are first in line for being accountable to the Lord for those very sheep.
Just sayin.
oc.
Ok, I have something to add to the pig conversation.
About 5 years ago, my husband looked out our kitchen window into the back yard and starting to yell, " there's a pig in our back yard, there's a pig in our back yard'. Now, seeing as how we live in a residential sububurban area and no where near the country, none of his family members came to see the pig that he claimed was in our back yard. We thought he was kidding.
But he continued to yell and jump up and down, so FINALLY we went to see what all the hoopla was about, and sure enough, there, standing in our back yard, was a HUGE pot bellied pig.
He grabbed his disposable camera and took a photo...because he was sure that no one would believe him...and when the photo was developed, I am NOT kidding, the light was shining on the pig as though the heavens opened up and were spotlighting the pig. ( It was about 10:00 AM when he took the photo)
Anyway, the pig ran away and we have never seen the pig again. I'm glad we have a photo, or else no one would have believed us.
And that's the story of SOTL and her pig.
SOTL
Thanks for not shooting him.
SOTL said, "Anyway, the pig ran away and we have never seen the pig again."
Comment: So, do you think this pig is the megasausage in Alabama? Wouldn't that be a trip!
alltojesus,
some big consequence.....training!!
sickofthelies said...
Anyway, the pig ran away and we have never seen the pig again. I'm glad we have a photo, or else no one would have believed us.
Are you sure the pig ran? Perhaps it was an angel...perhaps it flew up to heaven. Kinda like this.
I once had a pig in my back yard. We let it stay there and brought out food and water to it. But after a couple of days, it was gone. Apparently our neighbors wild animals all got out and was roaming the street.
We've had pigs, wild turkeys, and even peacocks hang out at my house.
Junk!!
THAT'S what happened to the pig!!!
Pigs DO fly!!!
Duke's now trying to sell the Bush's Baked Beans recipe now that pigs can fly :p
Purpose Driven Piglet
Stayedonthee & Powergmommy,
Just checking back in from last nite.
Bro. Mike does have a quick wit and is warm and loving, you hit the nail on the head.
It would be wonderful to have him as "pastor", but those young men at the seminary really need him. He is brilliant and knows and lives by the Word of God.
Why couldn't we have gotten as good a man of God to follow Dr Rogers as Dr Gray got to follow him?
I don't think I have ever heard anyone say sooooooooo much in such a short amount of time.
You have to listen up to keep up.
Sheepless: I'd like to start back to Wed. am Bible study week after next if you're still interested. We'll talk....but I've missed seeing you!
When Is Dr. Spradlin's last Sunday?
Anybody know?
Envision this....
SOTL's pig. Miraculously appearing in the backyard...
A golden ray of light penetrates the gloomy darkness and illuminates only Porky. What a glorious vision. Barbecue enlightened...
Sounds like it could be a Michelangelo painting.....
Or a vision of an 'amener'. Or a vision of the blacksnake. A big difference here, though, SOTL has pictures to prove she's not a wacko.
You go SOTL! Pork on!
OINK OINK
SOTL,
LOL!!!!!
Oooookaaayy....I guess I'll ask him myself on Sunday.....
(offline)
I gotta wonder about this pig story hogging so much time on our blog. I mean, we've got folks snorting with anger, squealing with emotional pain, and rolling in the mud of PDL. This is serious stuff, so cut the fat! SG is bringing home the bacon with lots of pork in it. JP is hamming it up on Sundays. We don't need our blog to be a boar.....so get back on thread topic!!!
And bring me some HoHo's!!!
;)
Concernedsbcer.
You ROCK!!!!!
That's too funny!!!
What a porkfest.
Your Ho Ho's are being shipped now.
Concerned,
We have to go this Wed, it's the last before summer break, let me know.
Piglet,
Not official, but I heard he would probably stay as long as needed...he's devoted and commited.
Nite all, I worked allllllll day!
concernedsbcer,
Are you saying this isn't a hog blog?
When a blogger is a hogger
And a troll gets on a roll
Do not fear what's come to pass
If the bad guys get in your eyes
To delete 'em and defeat 'em
You can always count on NASS!
(Yes, I read too much Dr. Seuss growing up.)
oc said...
Concernedsbcer.
You ROCK!!!!!
Me too!
:)
Junk: Perfect!
So even when it rains
you can count on Steve Gaines
The wolves he does shoot
and gives truthseekers the boot
And when someone's in the mud
No big deal: he's under the blood!
Junk and concernedsbcer,
And if you don't have any sense,
You can believe it was an itty bitty fence,
And with this your hair will curl,
He's afraid of a 15 yr old girl.
And it probably won't be your fault,
if you are the victim of an assault.
(Someone else finish it up).
And what are you going to do,
When you're the only one in the pew?
And the roof caves in with a thud,
And your preacher is Elmer Fudd.
Yes he may be a dud.
But remember it's under the blood.
(Please, someone help me out here.)
Found a good review of Blue Like Jazz from our friend Gary Gilley.
Wait, am I the only one up? Someone finish the poem.
Ok then,,,I'll continue...
And right here is such a mystical sight,
The boy won't preach on Wednesday night.
(hep me, hep me here).
Ok, OC you made me do it. A reprise:
Are You Preaching Tonight?
(with apologies to Elvis)
Are you preaching tonight?
Do you miss us tonight?
Will we manage to catch you at home?
Is some other church fair?
Is the pay better there,
that you so often wander and roam?
Do prestige and fat stipends
beguile from afar?
Do they swoon when you croon there
and strum your guitar?
Or if you're at the club,
will Joe Jernigan sub?
Tell me Steve, are you preaching tonight?
I wonder if... you're preaching tonight.
Steve, you lied when you said you loved us.
But we had no reason to doubt you.
But we'd rather go on hearing your lies,
than to go on living without you.
Though you can't feel our pains,
somewhere else is pro-Gaines!
Tell me Steve, are you preaching tonight?
all2jesus,
Yessss!!! You rock too!!!
Ya'll have made me do it!
With Apologies to the late, great, Warren Zevon....Heres a Bellevue spin on his song "Werewolves of London"...that I call Pastors of Bellevue....
I saw a pastor with several goons by his side…
Jumping over a fence of property in the rain…
He was looking for a place called Mark Sharpe’s house …
Going to intimidate the man some…..
Howwwwwwwwl…Pastors of Bellevue….
Howwwwwwwwl..Pastors of Bellevue….
If you see them climbing around your backyard fence…
Better not let them in….
Little old lady got insulted and harassed late last night….
Pastors of Bellevue again….
Howwwwwwl….Pastors of Bellevue…
Howwwwwwl….Pastors of Bellevue…
He’s the heavy-handed gent who ran amuck in Gardendale…
Lately he’s been overheard in Memphis…
Better stay away from him…
He’ll kick you out of church……
I’d like to meet his tailor…
Howwwwwwl…Pastors of Bellevue…
Howwwwwwl….Pastors of Bellevue…
Well I saw security guards roaming the church…
Looking for people who are against him…
I saw security guards throw out innocent people…
Who are against him.,…
I saw David Coombs drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic’s…
His hair was perfect…
Hooooowl….Pastors of Bellevue…
Fire Him!
Rock on Lynn.
Though you think we've no brains,
And we're going insane...
Tell me Steve...,
Are you preaching tonight?
(oc and his sneer lip happening).
I just read thru some of the info on saving BBC...again
If people are still claiming ignorance
they have to be plain stupid,blind,deaf, or dead!
Why have all the efforts to expose the sin, corruption, and lies of SG and leadership been blown off???
If a person only believes HALF of the info available, it SHOULD be enough.
BBC MUST have a huge "intimidate and/or dig up skeletons dept." that silences those that dare speak up.
Some of the deacon"s responses to church members were incredibly hateful...(and some close to illiterate!)
What will we hand over next????
When I was younger ,I remember asking why the Jews willingly gave up their possesions and got on the trains going to the camps...why didn't they fight!
The Germans had GUNS!
To my knowledge, no guns have been used on Christians at BBC and many have said NO but still we have been hijacked by godless men.
SG is not THAT smart or smooth.
WILL WE EVER KNOW THE TRUTH?????
MS,RS,JM,25+,anyone......why and how did this happen??
If we don't know,
what will it be next?
I hope it is the sound of the trumpet.
powergmommy,
If it feels good, they'll do it.
oc.
My word verification was yurbootie. Hmmm. What's up wit dat?
all2jesus said... "Found a good review of Blue Like Jazz from our friend Gary Gilley."
Comment: Yes, All2Jesus...it is a good review. Thanks for sharing it with us. Brief. powerful and to the point, which is typical of Gary Gilley and why I like him so well. Somehow, I cannot phathom Jesus Christ as 'hip and cool'...and don't intend to try. If that is the mentality of the culture we live in today...and I suppose it is, then we need to fall on our faces.
Look's like I missed all the fun last night.
All of you guys/gals ROCK!!!
If a person only believes HALF of the info available, it SHOULD be enough.
Powergmommy,
1 Ittsie, Bittsie, piece of information should be enough for serious concern. Strike 1, strike 2, 3 times he's OUT!!!!
powergmommy asked?
MS,RS,JM,25+,anyone......why and how did this happen??
churchmouse's 2cents worth:
gmommy, I have gone over and over this in my head. I don't know the answers, but I have some ideas.
1. A Purpose Driven transition is well planned and supported. Every 'i' has been dotted and every 't' crossed. The transition is done slowly and "under the radar" so that people don't realize anything bad is happening.
I believe Rick Warren's guidelines were used to gain control of our church.
2. When researching the Purpose Driven Movement one year ago in March, I read: If your church is at this stage in the transition, it may be too late to stop it. I don't remember the exact indicators, but Bellevue had already passed that point when we discovered what was going on. =(
3. We did not have the structure of church bylaws in place to protect us against this kind of takeover. There were powerful men in leadership positions when Dr. Rogers left. They were already steering BBC.
4. I believe many men in our church were too 'genteel' to speak out. No one was willing to risk their social status, friendships, or reputation, to speak out. No doubt, some were fearful for their safety. They sat quietly, whispering their discontent, and waiting for this to 'blow over'.
5. Some in our church were 'social climbers' of sorts. They were agressively seeking the favor of our new pastor. Richard Emerson told us at the Bartlett Baptist Meeting of being influenced by the aura or charisma of the new pastor.
6. There must have been many in our church who were happy to see the world come in. They welcomed the 'freedom' that a more worldly church offered.
7. The SBC and Lifeway are supporting this more worldly church attitude. I believe many have been truly decieved by what they consider a new enlightenment.
jmho
churchmouse,
Thank you for your well thought out response.
It is sad that some have been given over to delusions. They have forgotten or never knew who Almighty God is.
I know a "good man" who said last week that he is staying at BBC because even tho there is so much wrong...God is at work.
huh??????
God didn't CAUSE the lies and deception of SG and the power brokers. WHO is the father of lies????
Of course,He is always at work.
Is that a reason to participate??????
More questions.
How far will this leadership go to accomplish their agenda?
What do they see as the ultimate goal??
We know that the Lord wants us to be salt and light.
How would He have us protect and/or inform the weak and the wounded still at BBC
and those that will find their way to BBC???
Saving BBC.com and our blog are full of info./facts.
Is there a better way to streamline the info and /or make it easier to find?
More questions?
Where is everyone visiting tomorrow????
I am going to be really "rebellious" and visit RO.
I have wondered about "getting the information out" more efficiently. I just don't know. It seems to me that almost everyone knows about the problems in our church. I guess the whole world knows.
It seems that what a lot of people DONT know is how wide spread all this is.
If you are Baptist, you have few options open to you at this time. You can compromise and worship in a worldly church that is Purpose Driven or of the Emergent Church leaning, where mysticism is taking a hold, or you can go to another denomination and compromise your beliefs on baptism or whatever.
I have a young family member who has accepted Christ and in need of baptism. Where do we take him to make his profession of faith?
It seems to me that there are enough of us to start a little church. Our tithes and offerings would pay the rent on a vacant building. If we could get some men to give their time on Sundays to speak to us, this would work. We could have some 'curcuit' speakers who took turns. I know some are Calvinist. We could get around that if we really WANTED to. We don't have to settle if we show some initiative.
All2Jesus
Read the Gilley review of Blue Like Jazz.
If Gaines is recommending this book and this is his way of thinking, then it's a little wonder that he's run off into the ditch and seems to prefer the ditch to the road....
Referring to Christ as "hip" and "cool" is indicative of a generation which has lost its sense of the distance between God and His creatures, and the one attribute which is central to His being and adorns all His other attributes...His HOLINESS..."you thought I was altogether like you. But I will rebuke you and accuse you to your face." Ps. 50:21
People are you reading the Word of God to see Pastor Gaines or are you reading it to see Jesus? I am going over some of your messages and I can tell you that your focus is not on Jesus it is all about you, money, churches, PDL, mockery of Pastor Gaines, Dr. Spradlin etc.
How can you justify doing this while claiming to be in God's will?
People get your focus right or else God can not use you to bring others to Jesus and if you are not pointing them to Jesus you are an imposter. Do you not know these things? Jesus Christ is the One we are to talk about, think about and blog about.
powergmommy asked?
MS,RS,JM,25+,anyone......why and how did this happen??
As padroc said we have no church home to bring in the lost.
We have no where to baptize new converts.
Do we care enough to try and get a little church going? Are we so weary and beaten down -- afraid of another failure that we don't even want to try? Are we just going to cave and assimilate?
HEWILLBELIFTEDUP!!!!!!! said...
Jesus Christ is the One we are to talk about, think about and blog about.
You would do well to take your own advice. Speck, meet log.
I think "focus on Christ" has become the catch-phrase for "ignore what's going on". One cannot truly focus on Christ and what His word teaches, while simultaneously ignoring what's going on around him. Christ is recorded a great deal in Scripture rebuking the "religionists" He encountered in His earthly ministry. "Focusing on Christ" while ignoring all His word teaches is a contradiction in terms.
AOG,
True, true.
aog wrote:
"I think 'focus on Christ' has become the catch-phrase for 'ignore what's going on'."
Mental image.
NASS,
True, true.
gmommy said, "How would He have us protect and/or inform the weak and the wounded still at BBC
and those that will find their way to BBC???"
Comment:
Ezekiel 33:3,4,6"If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head...But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the peole be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand."
2Thessalonians 2:11, "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."
1 Timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron."
churchmouse,
It does APPEAR that we are caving and assimilating.
I would love to meet together. However,I have my doubts about keeping pride and arrogance out of our midst even in that setting.
Judging from the review of "Blue Like Jazz" it sounds like the author thinks of himself as the "Jack Kerouac"(sp)of Christianity. His idea of the Christian faith certainly mirrors Kerouac's free-flowing, mercurial thoughts on life and its meaning. I believe we are in the midst of the great apostacy...there seems to be a strong delusion which has been sent...which is not surprising...nature hates a vacuum...when truth is rejected, there's nothing left but the lie to fill the void. "thinking themselves wise, they became fools."
gmommy said,
I would love to meet together. However,I have my doubts about keeping pride and arrogance out of our midst even in that setting.
reply: You are probably right. =(
powerGmommy said...
I would love to meet together. However,I have my doubts about keeping pride and arrogance out of our midst even in that setting.
Is any assembly of fallen, though redeemed, humans, free of pride and arrogance? Are we to forsake the assembling of ourselves together? Food for thought...
hewillbelifedup!!!!said,
People are you reading the Word of God to see Pastor Gaines or are you reading it to see Jesus? I am going over some of your messages and I can tell you that your focus is not on Jesus it is all about you, money, churches, PDL, mockery of Pastor Gaines, Dr. Spradlin etc.
How can you justify doing this while claiming to be in God's will?
People get your focus right or else God can not use you to bring others to Jesus and if you are not pointing them to Jesus you are an imposter. Do you not know these things? Jesus Christ is the One we are to talk about, think about and blog about.
Reply:
Do you suggest that it is not God's will for Pastor Gaines to be accountable to Him, the Word, and the flock?
Do you think that Jesus would like His people to behave ignorantly, and ignore sin? Are you really suggesting this?
Do you think Jesus is not concerned about the defilement of His Bride? ( PDL, PDC, unscrupulous leadership, etc. Read as 'sin').
Sir/ma'am. if you are reading the Word, and are not concerned about all this, may I suggest that you read the whole Word, not just your favorite verses. Just sayin.
oc.
Ima quoted:
Ezekiel 33:3,4,6"If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head...But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the peole be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand."
Reply: OK, Ima. That means more reading, more praying, more time on the keyboard?
Opps! I posted on the wrong thread. That's ok. I've cooled my engines a little.
God's money, and how some of it is spent at Bellevue.
I don't know how many of you are aware of what is going on in the teens department of Bellevue. It has come to emulate a disco, a bar and worldly trappings.
On Wed night they have, for all intents and purposes a night club show. Bellevue parents, are you aware that they have a FOG MACHINE AND A LIGHT SHOW that goes along with all the LOUD 'music"? Bellevue money, your money in tithes and offerings goes to FOG MACHINE AND LIGHT EQUEPTMENT FOR A LIGHT SHOW AND EXPENSIVE SOUND EQUIPTMENT for the entertainment wanna be's.
Also, sg daughters boyfriend is the head music man entertainer.
According to my grandsons, who by the grace of God, will not go back after this last Wed night, the music, some of it, is supposed to be worship music but it's not really. It is all appealing to the flesh and the flesh alone. And that is according to two teen agers who will not darken the door again, if I have anything to do with it.
Thank you Lord, the oldest said he never wants to go back but the younger says he goes ONLY because he has friends there! Only because he has friends there! ONLY for that reason.
Is there a message from the Word I ask? No, not really. Why do you go? To meet friends but we to to "---------" to worship and study the Word. That is another church. My oldest grandson said: I visited 2 Pres and !st Evan and I really like the more formal worship much better. HE SAID THAT ALL ON HIS OWN AND IT SURPRISED ME.
This then begs the question: for whom are they trashing God's Church?
Money misspent according to my opinion:
FOG MACHINE FOR TEEN "WORSHIP"
LIGHT MACHING LIKE A DISCO AND NIGHT CLUB, FOR TEEN "SO CALLED WORSHIP"
FANCY EXPENSIVE SOUND EQUIPTMENT TO MAKE ROTTEN ENTERTAINERS SOUND EVEN MORE LOUD AND ROTTEN
Money given to a woman preacher that preaches homosexuality is ok and so is abortion
money given to confessed sinner pastor, for salery, after confessing sin that disqualifies him to be pastor ACCORDING TO GOD AND HIS WORD.
money given to lawyers to defend deliberate sinning of pastor and breaking not only Godl's law but civil law he does not submit to
money to hire a full time lawyer for future debochels and making him a pastor according to MAN AND MANS wisdon, NOT God's
money spent for wife's birthday party at hotel
money spent to send daughter and her girl friend, by air, to a pom pom rah rah cheer leader camp (really a spiritual expense isn't it)
exorbitant amount of money to take self, family and whom ever, along with guest of church out for dinner. Noet: emphasis is choice of overspending and not considering you are eating NOT on YOUR dime but off the sheeps tithes.
Plus many more I do and don't know about.
I sugguest everyone who is still giving any money to Bellevue remember that you will be accountable before the LORD if you continue to give knowing where and how this money is misused.
One man's opinion
rod said,
Rod Almondmartanti said...
Opps! I posted on the wrong thread. That's ok. I've cooled my engines a little.
Reply: Rod! Please don't cool your engines, even a little bit! We will never get out of here with cool engines.
Mouse said, "or you can go to another denomination ..."
Comment: Mouse...the sad thing about this statement is that the baptists do not hold a monopoly on this thing. It is in all the denominations...all of them. Even into the menonites (sp?). A couple in this denomination called us right after the WSJ came out...they had been 'dismissed' from their menonite community for standing for Truth. They were from Canada. It is in everything, everywhere.
Parents, CAUTION! Why do you send your children to church? What do you expect for them to get out of going there?
In my opinion it is essential, crucial that the kids hear the WORD OF GOD. It is RELEVANT to their lives and they know it. They are craving a deep study of His Word and examples of adults that have a vibrant relationship with the living God.
What they are being given is entertainment and watered down milk, if even that. Their flesh is being fed and their spirit is shriveling up.
Just think about the world they live in and have to face every day. They have NO chance if they are not getting fed at home and fed in a body of like minded believers, YES< BELIEVERS, not people off the street who don't believe and have no interest in the things of God, Nor can they! Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.
Give your kids a chance and put them somewhere they will be saturated by the Word and the things of the world will be just that, out of the church and in the world!
This is just my opinion...that is all it is. Our group stayed together...alright? It has been a blessing. Don't be so quick to dismiss 'like-mindedness'. It works. Just give it a lot of prayer time. :) You people have stood for Truth...is there anything better to be bonded together?
I am offline.
You all have a blessed day in the Lord...
Ima
Unfortunately the warnings appear to have about the same effect as they did in Ezekiel's day.
No one wants to hear it. We have been taught a gospel that is not true. We mold the Gospel to fit man's flesh every day.
Luke 3: 34 tells us that He is appointed for the rise and fall of many in Israel......
The references take us to 1 Cor 1:23, 2 Cor 2:16, and 1 peter 2:8. and
"A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense."
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.(See also Romans 9:22)
We appear to have been taught a gospel that does not require holyness on our part to enter the kingdom so we can still do all of this and still be saved. We have been taught a freedom that is false and goes directly aginst this.
Galatians 5:7You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8This persuasion is not from him who calls you. 9A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view than mine, and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. 11But if I, brothers,[b] still preach[c] circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed. 12I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!
13For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 15But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
Walk by the Spirit
16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21envy,[d] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
In my opinion this lines up well with Mark when Jesus tells us that he is come to divide....We have a choice. Are we going to follow the WORD, circumcise our hearts and love our neighbor or are we going to be a vessel of wrath, prepared for destruction?
It should be pretty clear that if we rebell against the WORD we are a vessel of wrath....prepared for destruction.
If, by sounding the trumpet of warning, we become ostracised by the "church" that refuses to follow the WORD then so be it.
Bellevue was the people, not the building. The pastor and his group have been telling everyone that don't bow down to the Nebuchadnezar and the Babolian Band to leave, to LEAVE.
Bellevue is GONE! The people who are the church who attended Bellevue are GONE.
Tere is a new and different bread
coming and most of the faces are new. Even Mrs Rogers left. I cannot begin to imagine what this has been like for her to have to see and experience, but you have to know that she would not have left her beloved husbands legacy unless she saw it had left and something different and new had taken over.
It feels like an empty tomb going into the big building that is so empty of people.
There is nothing there I can relate to anymore and there is NO like mindedness there for me.
Bellevue will never be what it was before. That Bellevue left with all the thousands of people.
Ezekiel said, "If, by sounding the trumpet of warning, we become ostracised by the "church" that refuses to follow the WORD then so be it."
Comment: EXACTLY!!!
Sorry, just had to comment on that one.
Offline again...
:)
junk99mail said...
HEWILLBELIFTEDUP!!!!!!! said...
Jesus Christ is the One we are to talk about, think about and blog about.
You would do well to take your own advice. Speck, meet log.
10:58 AM, June 02, 2007
WWJD: When He was near Jerusalem about to make His entry, He climbed on the back of a wild donkey and continued on by faith in God. This is by no means saying that Brother Steve is not a very good leader because he is, but even if he wasn't, do you not believe that God will get you to where you should be, ready, for His second entry? Remember Jesus is the example to follow!
God doesn't need our money, we need to focus on where HE is leading US, not where a pastor is spending his money.
Do you spend your money wisely? Will you post your bank account records, your salary and your credit card bills for us to see?
OR DOES SPECK MEET LOG?////
HEWILLBELIFTEDUP---will (not maybe)
Where is it written that Jesus Christ is to be what we are to blog about? Who made up that absurd rule?
Hewillbeliftedup, because God does not need our money, as you stated, are you insinuating that it makes no difference how it is abused and misused? If you even think such a thought, as you stated in your post, you are WAY off base. Have you ever heard of stewardship? Do you know the meaning of stewardship? You cannot possibly have a clue in order to make that statement about God's money.
Do you know or understand that the Lord requires more of a leader and those in authority and holds them more accountable than those who are not in leadership? I guess you don't know that either according to your post.
Who are you and where do you come from with these beliefs?
What is this childish name calling, Hiswillbedone? Say something of substance and get into the discussion with facts and opinions, but cut the name calling and childish jibberish.
New BBC Open Forum said...
Mirror.
Yep. Uh huh.
To Hewillbelifted up: we don't care where the pastor is spending his money, as you stated. We care where the pastor is spending OUR tithes and OUR offerings to God that belong to God, NOT the pastor.
rod,
Delusion. And only the warm, fuzzy verses.
Please, Hwbd, don't post your credit card or bank statements. No one cares to see them or gives a fig how you spend your money. I dare say, no one cares a fig about pastor sg spends his money. Listen up now, the subject is how he is spending God's money. That we care about because it comes from us, the sheep and it is given to be used for the work of the Lord.
Once again, it is not pastors money we want accoounted for, but the money given by the sheep to the Lord that we want, and ought to have and accounting of. There is no reason in the world a man of God would not be more that willing and delighted to open the books of the chruch.
hewillbeliftedup,
Would kindly address my 11:24 post before you go off on a snotty tantrum? Or can you not answer those questions?
HeWill,
I suppose if the pastor was having an adulterous affair, we should focus on Jesus and ignore it? And no, I'm not accusing him of that, but let me ask you a question: What would Steve Gaines have to do to make you make you question his integrity? Where's the line for you? I would have thought harboring a child molester alone should be sufficient for anyone. Yet even after the (mild) rebuke of the report and remedial "training", he still does not see the problem with that. Maybe you also think Paul Williams should return?
This is the Kool-Aid Gaines has been hawking for months: let's look ahead and forget what lies behind (January Light and Truth.) The problem is, unconfessed sin in the camp does not lie behind. It festers and destroys. Please read the account of Achan in Joshua 7. Perhaps Israel should have just ignored God's requirement and looked forward to the next battle -- and defeat.
As to finances, the pastor's church credit card is not his personal business. It's church business. Allegations of impropriety should have been dealt with swiftly and decisively by producing the statements for anyone's examination and answering their questions. Did this happen? No. Instead of arrogantly showing us his card, why didn't he humbly show us the statements? Any honest person with nothing to hide would have. (Yes, I know certain statements were shown to certain people in a carefully controlled environment.)
Just who is Steve Gaines answerable to? God alone? No earthly oversight at all?
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." -- Lord Acton
HEWILLBELIFTEDUP!!!!!!! said...
Remember Jesus is the example to follow!
Pot, meet kettle.
Everyone else, let us give heed to 1 Peter 2:15, "For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people."
HEWILLBELIFTEDUP!!!!!!! said...
"This is by no means saying that Brother Steve is not a very good leader because he is,..."
Gaines is to Pastors as Jimmy Carter is to Presidents. They both were disasters as leaders.
hewillbe...
Still waiting.....for you to answer my questions...(reminds me of 4545, hit and run...and run,...and run...and run...Does anyone else remember the 'big chase?).
Junk said,
HEWILLBELIFTEDUP!!!!!!! said...
Remember Jesus is the example to follow!
Pot, meet kettle.
Everyone else, let us give heed to 1 Peter 2:15, "For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people."
oc says,
Yep,Junk, you are right. and here's proof, huh? What should we expect from stepford sheep, anyway?
Baaaaaaaaaaaaahhaahahhaa!!!!!!!!
Note to some: River Oaks will have the Lord's Supper at their service in the morning so the msseage will be shortened.
Another note: troll feeding may cause an elevation of blood pressure.
oc,
Uh huh.
Stepford sheep are happy sheep
I am not very good at this but I have a question. I am reading about Samuel and I want to know how some of you can explain how the people of Israel continued to follow David after he committed adultry. I read one your statements which said something about this and I would like to know your take on this. Dr. Gaines has not committed adultry!
NBBCOF and Junk,,
HA!!! Ya'll are crazy!!!
Thanks for the laughs.
oc.
junk,
I beg your pardon! That's my photo, and I'm NOTastepfordsheep!
NASS
Uh oh, I just made NASS upset!
My most humble apologies!
NBBCOF,
Uh, you're uh..well..uh...cute....kinda.
Junk,
Quit making NASS mad. We can't afford it. That's one scary picture.
Junk...
Quit being such a baaaaaaaaaaaad person!!! ;)
(Sorry, couldn't help it lol)
Samuel said...
I am not very good at this but I have a question. I am reading about Samuel and I want to know how some of you can explain how the people of Israel continued to follow David after he committed adultry. I read one your statements which said something about this and I would like to know your take on this. Dr. Gaines has not committed adultry!
That we know of.
A key difference here is that when David was confronted by Nathan, he immediately repented. He was still a man after God's own heart, even though he had sinned grievously. He did not have Nathan put to death (he had the authority) nor even suggest he find another country. He accepted the rebuke in full.
And there were still consequences, even though David repented. God told him that the sword would not depart from his house (2 Sam. 12:10) and the child born by Bathsheba would die (12:14).
O samuel, whatever are you trying to infer? Are you actually stating that because David committedd adultry and sg did not commit adultry, and Israel followed David that we are all to follow steve BECAUSE his collective sins and shortcomings are not as bad as you think David's are?
Is that really what you are trying to imply?
First, steve is no King David. David was king of Israel and steve is pastor of Bellevue. Let me tell you first off there is a difference and to compare the two is as being "the same thing" is beyoond reason.
sam, you do not have to GUESS and come up with these far fetched imaginings. God has spoken DIRECTLY in His Word what HE EXPECTS OF A PASTOR. Have you ever read 1 and 2 Timothy? Titus? What don't you understand about what God requires?
Obviously you do not respect nor do you believe the Word of God because if you did when God speaks point blank what He requires of anyone who desires to be a leader of the sheep, you would not go off on vain ramblings about King David.
It is very interesting you did not compare steve g with King Saul. Read about King Saul. He was a man who followed God when it was to his advantage. He was dishonest. He was arrogant and filled with pride. God rejected King Saul flat out and Saul was depressed with evil spirits and eventually Saul went to a withch to get information. You see GOD told Saul that to disobe was like idolitry and WITCHCRAFT.
King David on the other hand confessed his sin and was humble before God. He was humble and obedient for the most part to God whom he loved.
It seems to me if you have to make such an irrational comparison you would be best to use King Saul and not David.
But my quesstion to you is, why do you refuse to take God at His Word and use God's qualifications for a pastor? Seems to me you too are in rebellion like Saul against the Word of God.
trollin',... trollin',... trollin' on the river.....
rod said:
Obviously you do not respect nor do you believe the Word of God because if you did when God speaks point blank what He requires of anyone who desires to be a leader of the sheep, you would not go off on vain ramblings about King David.
Go gently there, Rod. I believe Samuel asked an honest question. We can answer from scripture without impugning someone's motives or orthodoxy.
I guess I'm a troll~! I don't mean to be but my mind keeps exploding at due to apparent blindness and rationalizations of those who seem to actually believe that all that has happened is ok and God just goes "wink, wink". It is scary!
I guess we were called sheep for a reason. tsk! tsk!
Big wheel keep on toynin',
Nass jus' keep on boynin'.
Trollin'..trollin'...trollin' on the river......
rod.
Not you.
All2jesus, I'm delighted that you think sams question and comparison was "honest". There is always that possibility, and IF he truely is a new believer and not familiar with the NT then I'm sorry.
However, it seems to me there was a grasping at straws to say, we OUGHT to follow sg no matter what because look at David and people still followed him.
I'm sorry but as for MOTIVE, the motive was clear: we ought to follow sg.
orthodoxy? go figure.....how do you even think about comparing a King of Israel, with a pastor and his role in the NT? And, how is it POSSIBLE not to have read three books of the Bible, three NT books and be ignorant on this subject? I just don't buy it.
rod,
there you go buddy.
Rod Almondmartanti said...
All2jesus, I'm delighted that you think sams question and comparison was "honest".
If Samuel is a recognized troll perhaps your response was warranted, but he seemed like a newbie to me ("I'm not very good at this"), and honestly looking for an opinion in spite of a misguided conclusion.
But perhaps you've sparred with him before and know all of the things you brought out.
Hello darkness my old friend
I’ve come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left it’s seeds while I was sleeping
And a vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains –
Within the sound of silence
Sure B quiet in here. Just sayin'...
"Judging from the review of "Blue Like Jazz" it sounds like the author thinks of himself as the "Jack Kerouac"(sp)of Christianity."
Aog, You just nailed it!
BTW:In the book, when Miller refers to his friend, the cussing pastor, he is referring to Mark Driscoll.
And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
-And no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence
He has been here before and is mostlikely the same Samuel and is probably a troll. Best to use caution and not get into any kind of a sparring match. However, what difference does it make...what David did. Steve Gaines is in the here and now and has devastated Bellevue Baptist Church...and Israel has little to do with it, nor does David. As to Gaines committing adultery...I don't think that has been an issue and probably shouldn't even come up in conversation. He has enough scars without manufacturing any I would think. Samuel really should have left that one alone...looks more like a plant than anything else. Bellevue is a mere skeleton to what it was under Adrian Rogers and I would be ashamed of myself if I were Gaines or any of his followers for having desecrating this magnificent church! It is now apostate in my opinion. God help the people responsible for doing this to this former church.
Why don't you all just pass on these comments by Samuel. It does no good to get into this type of discussion.
Hewillbeliftedup: "WWJD: When He was near Jerusalem about to make His entry, He climbed on the back of a wild donkey and continued on by faith in God. This is by no means saying that Brother Steve is not a very good leader because he is, but even if he wasn't, do you not believe that God will get you to where you should be, ready, for His second entry? Remember Jesus is the example to follow!"
Friend, You are so off the mark with understanding scripture in context that I fear for you.
You cannot get to where you need to be following false teachers. You are sitting under one right now. I pray you will flee and study scripture deeply, in prayer and in CONTEXT.
And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said, “The words of the prophets are
Written on the subway walls – and tenement halls”
And whispered in the sounds of silence
OK, I'm done now. Get my drift? :)
"Do you spend your money wisely? Will you post your bank account records, your salary and your credit card bills for us to see?"
Oh dear. Another logical fallacy that has nothing to do with the actual issue.
"I am not very good at this but I have a question. I am reading about Samuel and I want to know how some of you can explain how the people of Israel continued to follow David after he committed adultry. I read one your statements which said something about this and I would like to know your take on this."
Well for one thing...David was a KING. And, he also had NATHAN confront him and he repented. (In the full sense of the word) Still, God punished David.
" Dr. Gaines has not committed adultry! "
Not that we know of. Still wondering about the NYC apt, though.
Folks, I get the feeling Gaines is actually teaching this stuff...ergo the comments we are seeing that make NO sense Biblically.
It is so sad what teaching people will believe because they are not Bereans.
"rod said:
Obviously you do not respect nor do you believe the Word of God because if you did when God speaks point blank what He requires of anyone who desires to be a leader of the sheep, you would not go off on vain ramblings about King David.
Go gently there, Rod. I believe Samuel asked an honest question. We can answer from scripture without impugning someone's motives or orthodoxy. "
If Samuel were reading scripture he would be familiar with Timothy, Titus and all the other teaching that is so very obvious about elders/pastors/shepherds.
But as it is, he MAY be sitting under a pastor who teaches that they are just 'guidelines' and not the Holy Word of God.
lin said,
Folks, I get the feeling Gaines is actually teaching this stuff...ergo the comments we are seeing that make NO sense Biblically.
If Samuel were reading scripture he would be familiar with Timothy, Titus and all the other teaching that is so very obvious about elders/pastors/shepherds.
But as it is, he MAY be sitting under a pastor who teaches that they are just 'guidelines' and not the Holy Word of God.
oc replies:
Yep. My point. Samuel would have been better off under the teaching of Simon and Garfunkel.
Sad huh?
oc.
LOL!!!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! oc, I think you may have just stopped the insanity with your posts, (mine that is). LOL They are just what's needed about now.
The only thing about passing on some of these comments is that some people may actually believe them. I have been told over and over again that the people who don't "approve" of sg are those who don't forgive!!
I know it is impossible to believe it but yes, they say we are "unforgiving"!
Well, first of all, in order to be unforgiving, a person has to make a CONFESSION. Isn't that how you understand it? A confession?
Then, when we are told we are "unforgiving" that implies there is some sort of sin that has been committed, doesn't it? A sin?
This tells me, along with Hiswillbedone, saying we should swollow and follow because sf isn't as bad as David that there is the recognition, afterall that some transsgression has been committed.
Now, what do they think we shold be more forgiving about, is the question. What is it we are to ignore? What is it THEY SAY went wrong? Just wondering what they think I've not forgiven.
Rod said to oc, "They are just what's needed about now." (referring to Simon and Garfunkel)
Comment: While that is close, what is actually promoted by Saddleback, PD, Warren and the like-minded, including SG is a guy named Smity, who sang 'Filled with the Spirit' at the PD Youth Conference in 2006. Every church needs to encourage their youth to emulate this guy...
Have a close look, but prepare yourself first:
Introduction to Purpose Driven Youth Conference, 2006, at Saddleback Church by Smity singing "Filled with the Spirit
Wow! Could this be more clear? A dark tunnel........ candles and hood that looks like some sort of seance setting.......... note the symbol of people and its crossed out!
Isn't this message clear as to where it is coming from? It is brazen rebellion
Brazen rebellion? You betcha! And did you note the mysticism present? The dungeon like atmosphere reverting back to the prereformation days of Roman Catholicism? That was when they threw the Christians to the lions for lunch...much like they are doing today. I hope some of you watched the DVD I posted from sermonaudio.com on Catholicism, Past and Present.
rod wrote:
"You see GOD told Saul that to disobe was like idolitry and WITCHCRAFT."
Funny, isn't that what Steve Gaines said criticizing "God's anointed and appointed" (i.e. him) is like? I've heard him say that in at least three sermons. In fact, I can give you dates: October 8th, morning and evening sermons, October 22nd evening message, and April 8th morning message, among others.
Rod Almondmartanti said...
"Wow! Could this be more clear? A dark tunnel........ candles and hood that looks like some sort of seance setting.......... note the symbol of people and its crossed out!"
Its not a seance....wearing a hood like that serves for street cred. Just look at a bunch of mainstream rap videos. You'll see a lot of that in those as well....when your not seeing half naked women gyrating and random acts of violence.
rod wrote:
"I have been told over and over again that the people who don't 'approve' of sg are those who don't forgive!!
"I know it is impossible to believe it but yes, they say we are 'unforgiving'!"
No, it's not hard to believe at all. I heard a BBC deacon say it this week, and we've seen it written here many times.
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