PREACHER PREDATORS: INVESTIGATING CHILD SEX ABUSE IN THE PROTESTANT CHURCH
JIM AVILA REPORTS ON ABC NEWS' "20/20," FRIDAY, APRIL 13
JIM AVILA REPORTS ON ABC NEWS' "20/20," FRIDAY, APRIL 13
Child sex abuse by Catholic priests has been headline news in recent years, but is the same abuse happening within Protestant churches? In a six-month investigation, ABC News' "20/20" found preacher predators in every corner of the country, including several affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) -- the largest Protestant denomination. Jim Avila's exclusive report airs on "20/20," FRIDAY, APRIL 13 (9:00-10:00 p.m., CT), on the ABC Television Network (Channel 24 in Memphis).
Avila's reporting finds that the SBC, an organization of 43,000 independent churches and 16.3 million members – has an overall structure that makes it difficult to police preacher predators. One example includes a profile of a SBC pastor who abused kids in Kentucky and then moved on to do the same to eight boys in Missouri before he was finally sent to prison. In an interview with Avila, the SBC president concedes that there is a problem with tracking predators.
"20/20" lists numerous SBC preachers who have been convicted or charged with child sex abuse, including pastors still identified on the SBC's own website of ordained ministers.
Avila also interviews a preacher who admits, in his jobs as Southern Baptist preacher and teacher in East Texas, that he molested more than 40 boys. For the first time, Ken Ward speaks publicly about how he manipulated families and churches as he targeted and molested children in his care, and how the church is actually a magnet for predators. "I wanted them to love me and that was part of the strategy," Ward tells Avila. He also gives insight to parents about how to spot a predator.
"20/20" is anchored by Elizabeth Vargas and John Stossel. David Sloan is the executive producer.
Here is a video preview.
504 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 504 Newer› Newest»preacher,
He will call it,
" I had a dream" spray.
I might order a Steve Gaines wig and a set of false teeth so I can lie through them.
NOT that I would want to lie but I would want the whole outfit. : )
SOTL,
LOL... you are on to something there
sheepless:
There is not ONE word that I believe about how SG came to BBC.
I think that he sat down and made it up.
Sounds like something he would do.
No man who is that unconcerned about a pedophile can be that ' in tune' with the will of God.
Too bad he didnt' go back out to that lake in June and consult with God as to what to do when a minister on your staff confesses that he is a pedophile.
Official Handbook of How to
Fleece the Flock for Fun and Profit
can be found here:
http://www.oaim.org/fleecing.html
Pentecostal trinkets here:
http://www.bible.ca/tongues-photogallery-pentecostal-trinkets.htm
"I might order a Steve Gaines wig and a set of false teeth so I can lie through them. "
LOLOOL!!!!
SOTL,
I thought you were going to say,
"Too bad he didn't go back to that lake in June and jump in it" LOL,LOL
I think I heard 4545 screaming at his tv set tonight, saying:
" LIES LIES LIES...this is pathetic and really sad"
sheep,
LOL!!! that would have been a good idea, too!
Wonder where 4545 was tonite, maybe they declared an emergency meeting after 20/20 aired, ya think
SOTL,
Great minds...I was posting about ____ at the same time you were.
yeah, prolly have their lawyers calling ABC news threatening to sue them if they don't air a ' more balanced' story. You know, do one on having compassion for pedophiles in the church.
Or maybe 4545 is packing for New York City
Charis said:
Hey, I know who might buy your "loney." They seem to have bought a lot of "loney" already...
the GAINESITES! (you know... as in Amorites, Hittites, mosquitobites...)
Just a thought.
12:18 AM, April 12, 2007
Dr. Loney replied:
Chairs, (pardon my dyslexia)
You are mistaken. The great Loney name is not for sale, but we could discuss a lease agreement.
As for the GAINESITES, that is a common and quite painful condition brought on when one has been forced to consume too much poorly prepared muscular tissue of the male bovine.
WLT, M.D.
12:31 AM, April 12, 2007
Dr. Loney says (right now)
Actually the condition is called (and correctly spelled)
'GAINESITIS'...The CDC has contacted my office(landlady's lawnmower shed) to inform me that there has been an alarming increase of reported cases in the last year.
Symptoms include:
-graying or pulling out of the hair
-deterioration of vocalization functions, whereby no one can hear you
-increased invisibility (especially prevalent in those near business meeting microphones)
-increased paranoia, whereby you think that criminal actions are somehow 'wrong'
-decrease in trust of religious hirelings
-increase in eye scale shedding
-increased bible reading
-increased praying
While the CDC as of yet hasn't identified the infecting source, they have narrowed down the area of origin to the I-40 east corridor
Again, the apparent cause of
'GAINESITIS', is the forced consumption of large amounts of bovine of the male persuasion. Thus, if anyone has been infected, immediate cessation of this activity is strongly urged. And please, while I am working around the clock to help, keep in mind that the Squire is in hock (again), so my efforts are limited...so do your part... friends dont let friends... get
'GAINESITIS'
The following has been a public health advisory from 'The Loney Wellness Clinic'(landlady's lawn mower shed)
William T. Loney, M.D.
I wonder how much longer that I will be allowed to be member of BBC before I am blackballed for signing the petition???
I bet Stevie is running through tape of the church services like a football coach does before a game...watch film, watch film....come up with a plan...
Dr. Looney,
I was wondering when you would check in with us. I noticed it was midnight and figured that you were done with your late night shift at burger king.
Good to see you.
preacher,
I soooo don't care anymore about being blackballed. We have no plans to attend there anymore.
They can have the place. I want no part of it.
DOC,
Is there a patch for 'GAINESITIS' ?
I have most of the systems but not all...yet. I do have a tendicy to go to shelby farms with the male bovines and graze.
Can you help before it is too late?
preacher!!!
was that YOU i saw out there????
Preacherdude,
We'll all be in good company, maybe they'll flog us all at once.
Would make for good media coverage.
SOTL,
Some might ask why you continue to speak out if you want nothing more to do with BBC. If you are like me, you continue to speak to be light for those whom the Lord is only now showing the way.
Dr Loney,
We've got some reserves at BBC for mission work, maybe we could get your squire out of hock.
Just tell em you need it to help haul us all of of church, that might be their hot button.
I really don't care if I am blackballed. God is the one who called me there and He is the One who has released me.
I am not worried if the petition will do any good. I didn't think it would. It was a matter of drawing a line in the sand and saying NO MORE!
proverbs,
I speak out becuase there are vulnerable children at BBC as well as other churches.
I am OUTRAGED at what has happened and the attitude that our " leaders" have taken.
I do not need to continue my association with BBC in order to continue in my outrage.
I will scream from the rooftops.
After what DC did to me and my PERSONAL file, I have earned the right to stand on top of the highest building and scream for all to hear.
SOTL,
It was. I did learn that you are not to graze on the buffalo side of the pasture. They get very upset.
I hope Doc can help me. If the patch isn't strong enough, I could be up to 7 patches a day. Then I would have a whole 'nother set of issues.
SOTL,
Please don't say never, maybe the Lord will do some plucking (Steve's words) and taking out the trash (Donna's words) soon.
What trash was Donna refering to when she said that?
preacher,
I have it on good authority from the community college in mexico that Dr. Looney is well qualified to get you fixed up.
SOTL,
Hang on, I am chewing my cudd. Don't want to talk with my mouth full.
preacher,
What trash was Donna refering to when she said that?
****
Go look in the mirror, dude,and tell us.
Hey Doc,
Did you see wolfman on 20/20 tonite.
If he's one of your long lost relatives don't give him a ride in your Squire if we manage to get it out of hock, he'd make a bloody mess if you let him eat in it.
Then we'd have to run it thru the carwash backwards with the windows rolled down.
preacher wrote:
"What trash was Donna refering to when she said that?"
Us.
SOTL,
WELL, I am almost offended. I have worked hard fixing up my trailer with a fresh set Michelins, new underpinning, a door, and new cardboard in the windows. How can she say that I am trash?
Sure, I don't have a big fancy car like Doc's but I do have a bus pass....paid up until June.
The nerve of some people.
preacherdude,
Donna was reportedly overhead saying to friend that they were used to having to "take out the trash."
She also said the reason they came to Bellevue was because Bellevue had a LOTA MONEY, and they would be able to grow "their ministries"
We bees the trash...
Preacherdude,
Are those michelins on top of the trailer or under it??
Sleepless,
Yes.
preacher,
I feel your pain.
I just got new linoleum for my double wide. The washing machine on my front porch is still in good working condition. I know, becuase I was enjoyinga cold beverage while siting on the couch next to the washing machine, waiting for my clothes to finish washing so Icould hang them out to dry on the clothes line in the front yard.
When you're from around Hot Coffee, Mississippi, you learn how to live good.
Some people don't know class when they see it.
SOTL,
I'm sure your inaccurate spelling of the great Loney name was just an error (of the mind, not the heart). Not sure what burger king has to do with my late night visitation...(I abhor non-canned meats). As for the rest of the inquiries, I am still comparing lab results before I draw any conclusions about whether I have the cure or not...if I find it, I wont charge for it, but if you'd like to make a donation, you can send those to 'South Memphis Pawn & Jewelry'.
But back on message...GAINESITIS has surpassed cankles as the number one reported health concern...vigilance people, vigilance.
As my New Mexico City Community College Medical School cyberprofessor, the highly esteemed Dr. Nachos Grande, used to tell me: "Senor Loney, it's not the size of the dog in the fight that matters, it's whether or not you can outrun the dog before he drags you down from behind and maims you viciously, as you scream for your amigos to kill either you or the dog, only to find your blood curdling cries for help are met with their sarcastic laughings, yelling 'that it's a police dog, so if they intervened they could be arrested with obstruction of justice'".
You're a prophet Dr. Grande, a prophet.
William T. Loney, M.D.
2 sets of michelins?
You bees some rich trash!!
SOTL,
You are rich! I have a double wide...well I could only afford one side but I hope to get the other side in 3-5 years. A
washing machine AND a couch! WOW!
FULLY FURNISHED!
You are blessed.
sheep,
Down in South Mississippi, we call that " nouvo riche".
Nite all..play nice if 0000 shows up.
well, sheep, and Dr. Looney, and preacher dude,
It's time for this gal to go and
"git on the bed" as my grandmother used to say.
Of course, my bed is also on the front porch. I will be sleeping with an umbrella tonight.
Ya'll take care.
I was just thinking....and it hurt...if I made as much as Steve does, I could get the other side of my trailer within a month or two.
Wolfman? yeah I saw him...what a poser!
Wolfman, when you start having to braid your earhair just so you can see when you drive, give me a call. And as for backhair, I had a brief stint as Chewbacca's stuntdouble in 'Return of the Jedi'...wolfman? what a pretender!
I'm not absolutely saying that he isn't a relation, but he acts a little too proper to be a Loney. He wouldn't last 5 minutes at the Loney reunion. BTW wolfman, if you know where the reunion is this year, email me. I think my invitation got lost in the mail (for the last 8 years).
WTL, M.D.
Preacherdude,
Why, he might even loan you his credit card..you would be planning on paying it back of course.
Really off to count sheep now, couldn't resist that one.
Now that everyone has gone to bed, I wanted to share my thoughts on spring. Spring is my favorite season...right behind Summer and Fall...and Winter. But for some reason, since Spring has sprung, I've begun to notice things that I've never noticed before. Like...
-Stop signs
-Eviction notices
-Court Summons
-Road Workers
-Early onset Dementia
-Botulism Symptoms
-That dogs reeaaallly dont like me
-That the passengerside backdoor of the Squire is missing
-That they cancelled 'Happy Days'
-That most people in traffic for some reason think I'm # 1
-That milk has to be refrigerated
-But mostly, I notice, that I just keep getting more and more good looking!
Oh Spring, that you could come every year is my wish!
WTL, M.D.
preacherdude777 said...
I really don't care if I am blackballed. God is the one who called me there and He is the One who has released me.
I am not worried if the petition will do any good. I didn't think it would. It was a matter of drawing a line in the sand and saying NO MORE!
Tim says;
Two things.
1. I have now been told that there have been three people in the high muckity-mucks on three seperate occassions that have said that there will not be another meeting. Regardless of how many names or who signs the petition or for any other reason. So.....
2. You are most definetly signing yourself onto a list of those to be black-balled by the muckity-mucks. This has been confirmed as well. It seems that the consensus among the upper crust is that anyone who would sign their name to such must not be unconditionally trusting of leadership and therefore must never have the opportunity to assume any leadership position.
Final analysis. If you plan on staying at Bellevue, you should not put your name on this petition. If you would like then email me and I could remove it for you with no hard feelings. Of course if it has been there for over 10 minutes you are already on the list anyway. It is being watched very carefully and the names are noted immediately.
That's really laughable, since I know I'd never be considered for any leadership position there anyhow under any circumstances. BBC stopped being my church home 3 months ago for all practical purposes. There's nothing to take away.
I understand leadership not wanting the congregation to know the deal they made with the devil on his salary,
debt at GD,
perks,
the contribution towards SG paying about 40,000 more than the value of his house....
most of the working people would have a cow if we understood how much of the church dollars have poured into gaines pockets.
They sure don't want the money links to be exposed.
All this for a pastor that does not believe and obey scripture and sees himself as a king.
I am the the 1st to say we cannot follow man....we cannot wait or expect a grieving widow to lead a bunch of men....willing to "take her arrows" but still expect a woman to lead you from the seats you are glued to.
BUT HOW can the R family remain silent while SG drags the family name into his arrogant lies.........
Thanking them for their support....whether or not they were present ...Pulling out an AR quote when it serves his purpose....
When I had to live with a SG type,I was taught to confront every lie...
Why can no one speak out about this man that in 18months has brought national shame on the church once seen as the flagship church
Why do the R's reamin silent while
steve gets bolder.....he is banking on their silence....banking on it literally!!!
Tim,
Thanks for the offer of removing my name but I cannot do that. That would be putting my "position" above standing up for God's truth. Won't do that.
What can they take away from me? My name is written in the Lambs book of Life. Can't blackball me there! They don't control my money, family, spiritual growth...however they have stunted my spiritual growth for a bit. Not any longer.
I don't fear them. Never have and never will. I fear FOR them. God's judgement will be sure.
They are just a spec in the big picture. God's work must go on therefore so must I.
Please leave my name. I fear God more if I take it off than the clowns if I leave it on.
As Steve & the gang goes about THEIR plan, other churches are taking note. He will have a lot of Wednesday nights free to "be with his family".
Maybe he can get his read the Bible in one year bible & sit by the lake again & see if he can REALLY hear from God.
Preacher Dude: last night you said: "I wasn't man enough to be the lone NO vote. I am ashamed." One important thing that you need to know is you were not alone. Had there been a written ballot vote, as there should have been, you probably would have been surprised at the number of members that voted your way. There were many "checks in the spirit" But it was a railroad job all the way.
I signed the petition KNOWING full well that we would be blacklisted. It's interesting that there are many on the list that work in many areas of the church. Will they be getting "let go" from their positions. I'm guessing not until it's convenient for the leadership. I went ahead and let my position go, before they let me go. I could no longer work under this leadership, not the other way around. I fear what will become of my beloved church.
Translation for the new lurkers:
gmommylv said...
I understand leadership not wanting the congregation to know the deal they made with the devil on his salary,
debt at GD,
Translation: Gardendale Baptist Church
perks,
the contribution towards SG paying about 40,000 more than the value of his house....
Response: Interesting, and their Realtor is a familiy member of Donna's & a good Realtor at that, maybe he just knows more than anybody about everything.
most of the working people would have a cow if we understood how much of the church dollars have poured into gaines pockets.
Response:
How do think you think our precious Senior Citizens would feel knowing how their tithe is being squandered.
They sure don't want the money links to be exposed.
Response: And that's a fact...Where in the world is "Chip",
Freeman that is.....Bellevue, Ugly Mug, Bellevue..Where is he???? Where is the spread of 2 Million dollars that he doesn't seem to account for. At the pre-monkey-business meeting, when asked if Bellevue had 30,000,000 CASH..the response was no. We only have 6 - 7 million in designated reserves and 6 - 7 Million in undesignated reserves.
THATS A SPREAD OF 2 MILLION DOLLARS ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT..Where is the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
All this for a pastor that does not believe and obey scripture and sees himself as a king.
Response: We need a new banner,
STEVE, THE KING OF LIES
Actually we need several banners and they, the deceitful and lying leaders, can strut in one day with:
1. Dream banner
2. Itty bitty fence banner
3. Credit Card Banner
4. Colonial Country Club Banner
5. Hotel w/friend banner
6. Cabbage truck banner
7. "Ticked em off" banner
8. New York City banner
9. I don't preach on Wednesday
night banner
10. Covenant Relationship banner
11. "Uncharted Water" Banner
12. Monkey-Business Meeting
Banner
13. Whack that mike banner
14. TRASH CAN banner
(well you get the picture)
LEADERS AREN'T YOU PROUD OF YOURSELVES, Look at all you have accompolished in only 18 months
concerned said...
There were many "checks in the spirit" But it was a railroad job all the way.
I too had a big check, but all my coworkers and friends were so excited, I began to wonder if it was just "me". I now know that some of them had the exact same witness, but because no one questioned anything, they remained silent and felt as I did. We were most definitely "railroaded". Had there been an open discussion, I feel sure that one brave soul who would have raised a question would have generated other questions. That must have been what the search committee was afraid of. They were following the PDC and CGM plan in specific detail and it worked. The angel of light sure is deceptive isn't he...he knows what it takes to deceive us and is using it against the cause of Christ. We have all let him proceed for our pride and position, the important thing is that now we have awakened and are on to his plots and plans. The problem is that so many of the children are still asleep and motivate by a false sense of loyalty to a man and a position rather than the Truth.
15. I support leadership at ALL
cost banner
16. I support Steve banner
17. GAG order banner
18. "See no Evil",
"Hear no Evil"
"Speak no Evil" banner
19. We've been TRANSITIONED
banner
Dr. Loney said....
The following has been a public health advisory from 'The Loney Wellness Clinic'(landlady's lawn mower shed)
I need to cleanse my heart, and apologize to Dr. Loney for ever doubting his medical credentials. You are a fine diagnostician and I am sorry I ever doubted you.
amy,
You should have mail from last night.
nathanb to SG
Why are you refusing to leave? Let go of your pride. I pray your Love for the Lord releases you of your hold on your position.
Piglet says:
What love for the Lord? He loves himself. :(
liloleme posted
SG said:
"And I told 'em everything I thought they'd have to change, everything that we do right that they do wrong... I mean that. I came back and told Donna, I said, 'No way on God's green earth they'll want me now.'
Piglet says:
Yeah folks, we needed work didn't we? Before Steve Gaines came:
1) We were "one in the bond of love" - nuff o' that!
2) We trusted our pastor - SG keeps us on our toes.
3) We were only paying our pastor less than half the salary of the leader of a small country.
4) We had always obeyed the law - buch of goody two-shoes.
5) We dealt with known sexual sin among ministes swiftly - why so judgemental?
6) We were intolerant and didn't shre God's money with false teachers and reprobates - biggots.
7) We held our pastor accountable to scripture - don't we know pastors aren't accountable?
8) We treated exiting ministers with respect - only the pastor should get any respect.
9) We had scripture as our guide - the pastor should be our guide.
10) We addressed people with concerns - we should have been getting rid of them.
Boy, I'm glad Steve showed up!! We were a mess!! :)
20. WE HAVE ARRIVED BANNER, (we
got our church and crosses as
featured photos on 20/20 last
night. THANK YOU STEVE GAINES
AND HIGH MUCKITY MUCK LEADERS
SHAME, SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!!
Piglet, how poignant and true your last post. It would be funny if it were not so serious.
How peculiar and strange that anyone would say what steve said. From what I understand, Bellevue was a much more vibrant and "sussessful" chruch than the one steve gaines had. Obviously, Bellevue was built upon prayers of the saints and self sacrifice and giving. It was so much "larger" and more mature than steves church. If he had a key to improve on what was the "best" then why wasn't he running a church as successful in the Lord's work as Bellevue?
It is the Lord that "tears down and builds up" not man and not steve. To quote those passages where the Lord is speaking of Himself, and implying that is the work of man, and not any man of You! Wow! It makes you shudder to think that you can do the work of the Lord and leave Him out of it! I'll not forget the time steve said during the morning service: Every church I go to grows! I said in my heart: that's the difference between you and what man builds and what the Lord has built here. Steve takes credit for "tearing down" the Lord's work and that is scary.
But, he also said he was going to build "it" up. Whatever "IT" is. The church? It was already built up into a beacon of light What does he intend to build? AN ALTER TO ED?
21. DON'T RECOGNIZE BELLEVUE
banner. Jamie & Dana Parker
said on TBN, "You won't
recognize Bellevue in 5 years!
Jamie did you and Steve rent
or buy that Catepillar
bulldozer you used to speed up
the process, WOW, you just
"whacked" that 5 yrs to 18
months..Now that's progress!
sheepless
Per your request:
Hey Folks. Reading the posts today made me feel that I should repost some quotes from Adrian Rogers in one of his books:
Koragg said...
I was reading in a Bible study workbook based on "The Incredible Power of Kingdom Authority" which was written by Dr. Rogers and on page 38 of that workbook there were some statements that really stuck out about the role of Pastor.
"The pastor is to have a place of strong leadership, but not to be without accountability. The pastor and other church leaders still must submit to the over-arching authority of the whole body because JESUS is the HEAD of the body."
"Woe to pastors who have such a sense of self-importance that they become authoritarian and fail to listen and to learn. Such attitudes show immaturity and fear. The true leader does not call honest questions and discussion "sowing discord"
Reading these statements and then looking at the situation at Bellevue now....Gaines is doing exactly the opposite of how a pastor should behave.
9:54 PM, March 01, 2007
Obviously, these line up with some of the scriptures that Don has mentioned. The Purpose Driven Life's methods go against that. Especially the methods of eliminating those who disagree with the pastor.
10:10 PM, March 02, 2007
Also for sheepless:
A FORMER PASTOR'S ASSESSMENT:
PART ONE
Let’s begin this post with prayer. Will you please pray this prayer in your heart as you read it? Engage God on your behalf and the behalf of others by making this prayer your prayer too.
Our heavenly Father, we of Bellevue are in grave need of Your power to be upon our lives. We know that we wrestle not against flesh and blood in our spiritual warfare, but against the devil and the powers of darkness.
We are not equipped in our limited wisdom and weak flesh to confront such a formidable enemy. We must rely on You and You alone to fight for us and we know that what we often see as our conflict is in fact, Your battle.
We also know that even though we attempt to allow you to fight the battle through us that we are still sometimes guilty of depending on the arm of the flesh when we should be depending on You.
We know that no matter how pure our motives may be and how earnestly we desire to be clay in Your hands, that the devil will cause others to accuse us of being evil, vindictive, and self-serving.
Help us to know that this is always a part of the price we must pay if we insist on being Your faithful servants, and help us to most gladly bear it because in so doing we are suffering unjustly as did our dear Lord Jesus, except His suffering was so much greater than ours, even unto His death on the cross.
We pray that You will, as You have through the millenniums, give the victory in the battle in which we currently find ourselves engaged. Our desire is that out of it all You will ultimately be lifted up and magnified and glorified!
In the matchless name of Jesus we pray. Amen.
I’m sure it is agreed by most that some supporters on both sides of the regrettable issues with which our church is currently wrestling have not always expressed themselves in the Spirit of Christ.
This is a sin and is very unfortunate. However, others have approached these problems as I believe Jesus would with a broken heart and a sincere concern for the welfare of all who are involved on both sides.
After all, we are to love not only the brethren, but we are even commanded to love our enemies. And we are to love the brethren even though we disagree with them.
To love our enemies is a natural impossibility and therefore requires the supernatural Holy Spirit of God living in us to enable us to love even those who may be in the process of taking our life away as Jesus and Stephen demonstrated by praying for those who were killing them to be forgiven for doing so.
Therefore, at the outset of the first time I have posted on this blog, I want to say I love all of you brothers and sisters of BBC in the Lord who are involved in this difficult and sad situation with which we are all being forced to cope. I am deeply moved and grieved at what has happened and, at the time of this writing, is continuing to happen in our beloved church.
My sincere motivation in going public like this is a deep desire to be among those who might be helpful in the restoration of all those who need to be restored to their first love. I too, like you, am only a sinner saved by grace and am not, nor do I pretend to be, always above reproach.
I am therefore ever aware of what Jesus said to those who piously brought the adulterous woman before Him expecting Him to condemn her and have her stoned to death. He said, “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” None qualified and they all left. Jesus had compassion on the woman and said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”
The hypocritical crowd had no love or compassion for the woman. They didn’t desire her restoration. They sought her destruction.
Jesus demonstrated the love and compassion which He expects His followers to demonstrate in their lives. It is not my purpose here to cast stones in an effort to destroy anyone involved in this matter. It is my desire to encourage repentance and restoration.
Now, having hopefully established the demeanor to which I hope to cling as I proceed, let me say what I have fervently and earnestly prayed will be the voice of the Holy Spirit speaking through me.
Jesus was kind and compassionate to the woman mentioned above. I believe His response was determined by the fact that he saw in her heart an attitude of deep sorrow and regret over her sin. In other words I believe he saw a spirit of repentance in her heart and thus He forgave her and sent her on her way.
Jesus reacted much differently, however, toward the religious leaders of his day who were living double lives and were unrepentant of their sins. It should be emphasized that these were unsaved people who were pretending to be very religious.
The pastor and others of our church have openly broken the law by trespassing on posted, fenced property and have refused to recant by calling it the sin that it is. The pastor rather pretended to apologize for what he chose to call a “mistake” which he further attempted to trivialize by saying it was a “mistake of the head and not of the heart.”
He further attempted to minimize the matter by saying the fence was very short and they just stepped over it, although the height of the fence has no bearing whatsoever on the extent of the sin. Those who are godly cannot remain right with the Lord if they choose to ignore sin in the name of unity and act as though it never happened.
When I say “pretended to apologize” I am saying that the sincerity of the apology must be seriously questioned when the one offering it is at the same time in essence attempting to defend what was done by implying that it really wasn’t very bad in the first place.
When God sent Nathan the prophet to confront David with his sins of adultery and murder, David made no attempt to defend himself. This is found in 2 Samuel 12:13, “Then David said to Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD."
Pastor I don’t say all this to be mean or disrespectful, but to, as Nathan did David, confront you with your sin. You have established a pattern of insincere apologies about the trespassing issue and the “supposed” apology to Dr. Whitmire for how you mistreated him.
The wages of sin is death. Sin kills unity. Therefore, the one guilty of the sin causing the disunity is the one who is guilty of destroying the unity among brethren. Those who are moved by the Holy Spirit to try to restore the one guilty of the sin are not the ones who are guilty of dividing the church.
However, as I said at first, there are some who have sinned by not having the right spirit when they have posted their comments and opinions and this is true of people on both sides of the matter.
Now I believe I should comment on the first point and the last point of the four points in the sermon titled “When The Spirit Comes” which the pastor preached on Sunday evening, Feb. 25, the same night brother David Coombs was ordained.
The first point was, “The Spirit is attracted to unity (Acts 2:1).”
This verse says, “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come they were all with one accord in one place.”
Jesus said all the law and prophets is encompassed by this one great commandment, “You shall love the Lord your God with all of your heart and soul and mind and strength.” He also said, “If you love Me keep my commandments.” We are also told that, “Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
It is possible for a number of people to be assembled together in one place and not be of one mind or one accord. Although thousands have left our church to go to other churches, there are many who have chosen to stay for any number of reasons even though they are still broken hearted over what is happening. Just because they are there doesn’t mean they are in one accord with what is going on.
Just because they disagree with the sins of others, doesn’t make them divisive. The ones committing the sins are the ones who are causing division. However, I must admit that some who have opposed sin have themselves committed sin by having a hateful, bitter spirit instead of having love in their hearts for those who have done wrong. And such an attitude does cause further division.
Let’s say someone wants the church to be carpeted with green carpet but the majority vote for red instead. If the one who wanted green gets mad and leaves the church, then that person is obviously being immature and is guilty of being divisive and sinning against the Lord. There was no sinful issue involved until he committed one himself.
When the pastor took our co-pastor and others from legal ground to illegal ground, they were all in one place, but I am confident they were not all of one “accord” or that is, in agreement that what they were doing was right.
Item C under the first point was “Disunity is a sign of spiritual immaturity.” This is true and it is also true that the one who is spiritually immature is the one the spiritually mature are to disagree with when the immature one disobeys the Lord.
It doesn’t matter how many years a person has been saved or how often they have gone to church or even if they have a daily quiet time, when they intentionally sin, it is a spiritually immature and rebellious thing to do. It was a spiritually immature and rebellious act for the pastor to violate the law by trespassing. It was also a spiritually immature and rebellious act for the others to follow him in his sin.
There was no doubt disunity in their hearts although they were unified outwardly. However, they should have told the pastor that they disagreed with his decision to break the law and should have refused to follow him over the fence. This is a type of disunity that God supports. Acts 5:29 states, “But Peter and the apostles answered, ‘We must obey God rather than men.’”
Godliness is never to be slain on the alter of unity. If we must disobey God to have unity then it is better not to have unity.
On Sunday nights when everyone sings, “There’s a sweet, sweet Spirit in this place.” It is true that the Holy Spirit is there because He is everywhere and He is the sweet Spirit of God, but He is also the grieved Spirit of God over what is happening to our church. Having the congregation sing “everything is wonderful” songs doesn’t make everything wonderful.
I think under the current circumstances it would sadly be more appropriate to sing, “There’s a deeply grieved Spirit in this place.”
I will address the last point of the pastor’s sermon and some other matters later in PART TWO of my comments.
1:46 PM, March 02, 2007
Here is the rest from FORMER PASTOR:
PART TWO
I now continue to comment on the sermon “When the Spirit comes” which the pastor preached on Sunday night, Feb. 25, the same night brother David Coombs was ordained.
The fourth and last point of the pastor’s sermon was “The Spirit is attacked with persecution (Acts 2:13).
This verse states, “But others were mocking and saying, "They are full of sweet wine."
Those who were mocking were the unsaved who were trying to discredit the miracle performed by the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost when He enabled them to speak in tongues they had never learned.
Subdivision A under the last point was, “Attacking the Holy Spirit is dangerous. Mark 3:22-29”
These verses tell of Jesus healing a man’s withered hand on the Sabbath. Verse 6 of this chapter says the Pharisees then went out and began to conspire how they might destroy Him, because they were offended that He performed this miracle on the Sabbath.
In verse 22 Mark said, “The scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons."
Jesus said in Matthew 5:20, "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.” So the scribes were unsaved people who were accusing Jesus of doing the work of the devil.
In verse 29 of Mark 3, Mark quotes Jesus Who said, "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin."
So it was the unsaved, “the sons of men,” not the saved sons of God who were guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Over 400 people electronically signed the online petition in favor of postponing the ordination of brother David Coombs. History tells us that for every person who makes their opinion known by signing a petition there are usually several who are of the same mind who for one reason or another did not get their name on the list. So it could be there were as many as a thousand or two thousand members or maybe even more who were against the ordination proceeding at the time and under the circumstances which it did.
The pastor preached the sermon to which we have been referring immediately prior to the ordination, an action which was obviously considered by a large number of the membership to be an unwise thing to follow through with at the present time.
His sermon topic was apparently chosen to openly rebuke those who have been opposing the ordination and all the other inequities which have transpired in our church in recent months. In the unlikely case that the sermon was not chosen for that purpose, then it would seem that the Holy Spirit would not have led the pastor to use such a topic and outline since it would undoubtedly give the impression that it was chosen as a rebuke of the opposition.
The points of the sermon referring to the evil of attacking the Holy Spirit were supported by scriptures that were referring to the ungodly, unsaved people of the world who attack the Holy Spirit because they are in rebellion against God and all He stands for and because they love their sins and refuse to submit their lives to Him and be forced to give up those sins. They “love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil.”
By far, the overwhelmingly vast majority of people who are opposing the wrongdoing of the pastor and staff of our church are people who have been faithful, God-loving and God-honoring servants of the Lord and members of BBC for many years. They do not love sin and are in complete harmony with anything which the Holy Spirit does through the lives of those who love the Lord.
They are not attacking the work of the Holy Spirit. What should be obvious to all who are led by the Spirit is that they are instead opposing sin in the camp. The sin is of the more grievous sort because it is being committed by the leadership of our church.
The Holy Spirit doesn’t lead Christians to break the law by trespassing on private, fenced, posted property, harboring a pedophile, the commingling of funds, and refusing to release information to the members of a nonprofit organization which the law states is to be surrendered upon request.
When godly Christians oppose such violations of the law, they are not attacking the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit does not participate in breaking the laws of man which the Bible says are ordained by God. They are instead being led by the Holy Spirit to oppose what is obviously the works of the devil, even though it may be backslidden Christians through whom the devil is working.
When Peter opposed Jesus’ death on the cross, he may have thought he was acting on God’s behalf, but he was obviously deceived by Satan and Jesus most likely looked straight at Peter in Mark 8:33 “But turning around and seeing His disciples, He rebuked Peter and said, "Get behind Me, Satan; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."
Had Peter been so inclined, and had the Holy Spirit already come, which of course at this point in time He hadn’t, he could have accused Jesus of attacking the Holy Spirit. After all he was expressing his opposition to the crucifixion of Jesus. Is that not a most honorable thing to do?
In spite of what would appear to be a very reasonable defense of Peter’s remark to Jesus, Jesus spoke to the devil and not to Peter proving that the devil was using Peter to say what was said. There is no record indicating that Peter responded to what Jesus said to Satan. He probably realized he was wrong and therefore remained silent.
Subdivision B under the last part of the sermon was “Attacking the Holy Spirit is rebellious. Acts 7:51" This verse says, "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.”
This was Stephen’s final sermon just before they stoned him to death. He began by addressing them as “brethren and fathers” in verse two, a sign of respect although they weren’t his spiritual brethren.
They were unsaved Jews and thus in this verse, although their flesh was circumcised identifying them as descendants of Abraham, they were not of the faith of Abraham and for this reason he said they were not circumcised in heart and ears.
So again what we have here is the lost accusing a Christian of blasphemy and yes this is very dangerous for the unsaved to do because, if for no other reason, if they persist in doing so until they die they will go to hell.
Subdivision C read, “Attacking the Holy Spirit is carnal. Romans 8:5-8”
This portion of scripture is as follows:
“For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Here again, Paul is referring to the unsaved as those who are “according to the flesh” or in other words carnal and he said the mind of the lost is hostile toward God.
So again it is the lost and not the saved about whom the reference is speaking.
Subdivision D read, “Attacking the Holy Spirit is indicting. 1 Corinthians 2:14”
This verse reads, “But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.”
Here again the verse referred to is speaking of the unsaved who do not understand much of the things of God because to gain a thorough understanding of godly things one must have the Holy Spirit, who lives in every believer, to make them understandable.
I don’t remember the pastor’s comments on this subdivision. One meaning of the word “indicting” of course means “to be accused of doing wrong.” Attacking the Holy Spirit is most assuredly a wrong thing to do.
Again, it is of course wrong to accuse godly people of being unsaved just because they point out sin in the lives of other believers. We are on the contrary admonished by scripture to attempt to restore believers who have sinned in the spirit of meekness.
Thus every reference used in the fourth part of the sermon which speaks of attacking the Holy Spirit is referring to the unsaved who are doing the attacking, not believers.
Of course even when an offender is properly approached by a Christian brother over his sin, if he insists that he has done no wrong, then he may defensively accuse the godly person of being unsaved and further accuse them of attacking them and therefore also attacking the Holy Spirit living in them.
Now I believe I should address two other unfortunate issues and I will be through.
The issues I refer to are the refusal of the church staff to release the information that has been requested which the law requires to be released upon request by the members of the church and, in conjunction with that matter, the ordination of brother David Coombs.
Please read the following two excerpts from The New American Standard Bible first.
1 Peter 2:13-17, “Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men. Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.”
Romans 13:1-6, “Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.”
The above verses are more than enough scriptural proof that the pastor and staff have “opposed the ordinance of God” by refusing to subject themselves “to the governing authorities.” This has happened on more than one occasion.
They have “opposed the ordinance of God” by trespassing, by harboring a pedophile, and by refusing to release information to the membership which is required by law, and also the commingling of funds.
Now let me pause here and one more time declare that I love each of you, my brothers in the Lord, and I want each of you to have the very best God has for you. However, I know and I know that each of you know down deep in your heart that you can’t have God’s best if you persist in being disobedient to Him. Again my purpose here is not to destroy anyone, but to hopefully be among those whom God may possibly use to help you come to a place of restoration to your First Love.
Now, here comes some “tough love.” I don’t get any joy out of saying what I am about to say now.
David was, as we all know, called a man after God’s own heart and he was mightily used of God. Through him God slew the giant Goliath. Through him God gave the world a great host of the Psalms. He was one of the greatest kings of Israel who ever lived. In his great exuberance for God he danced before the ark of God much to his wife’s embarrassment.
All of this and much more could be said of the good things David did and yet David became an adulterer and a murderer. For these sins, as we all know, He paid dearly.
I am not in any way implying here that anyone currently on staff has committed sins as heinous as those which David committed. However, if sin in the camp hinders the lost from being saved and causes other believers to stumble, then how grievous does that make that sin?
Though David was incredibly used of God, it did not stop him from committing some of the most abominable sins that man can commit.
Many of you have been on the BBC staff for many years and we as a church have looked up to you and admired and prayed for you down through those years. However, something very grievous has begun to occur among the members of the staff of our church. I continue to pray for you --- however --- I am now praying that God will make your life absolutely miserable every moment of every day if you are living in sin until you sincerely repent and turn away from that sin and go on for God.
I don’t get any pleasure out of seeing someone’s life be miserable, but it is better for you to be extremely unhappy until you are once again living a life that makes God happy with you. Had David not repented for his sins according to the prophet Nathan, God would have taken him to an early grave, but when David repented Nathan told him that God had forgiven him and would not take his life.
Brother Coombs, from all I’ve heard about you, it sounds like to me that the Lord has most likely blessed and used you much over the many years that you have been saved. However, when you were “ordained,” according to all the information I have, as you knelt and they laid hands on you, you were living in defiance of the law of the state of Tennessee which requires you to release certain information to the membership upon request.
In spite of all the good you may have done over the years, as King David had done great good for God, in spite of the fact that Sonny Tucker has been mentoring you for many years, and in spite of the fact that you memorize three verses each week, which, by the way, I don’t do, I find it extremely hard to believe that God approved of your being ordained to the gospel ministry while you were at the time of your ordination “opposing the ordinance of God” by refusing to “Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution.” ---- 1 Peter 2:13-17 and Romans 13:1-6
I am disappointed in every minister who participated in the ordination service. I regret to have to say this, but I am afraid that God had nothing to do with your being ordained. If I had to choose, I would much rather be ordained by God and not men, than to be ordained by men and not God!
Again, I love each of you my brothers, and I deeply appreciate all you have done to this point in your lives for the Lord, and I have richly benefited from many of your ministries over the years I have been at Bellevue, but as hard as I might try to find justification for what was done, I cannot!
As to the release of the information requested, I’m sure that some of the members don’t want their addresses and phone numbers publicized, however, I’m sure many of them don’t like to wear a seat belt and many would rather not pay income taxes, but it is the law and I’m sure most of them wear their seat belts and most of them pay their income taxes. Their world will not end if their address and phone numbers are given to the membership. Many churches even have a church directory published so everyone will have that kind of information.
As to the financial reports, I’m sure there is some sensitive information there that might make some people a little unhappy, but that is beside the point! It is the law!
Pastor, I am praying for you most fervently! You have publicly admitted to being guilty of breaking the law in the matter of trespassing and in the matter of harboring a pedophile and you have refused to release the information that our church is obligated by law to release.
You have been accused of breaking the tax laws by commingling funds and in your previous pastorate you reportedly charged an extra one thousand dollars per person on Holy Land tours you led the members of your church on.
Your have been a part of giving $25,000 dollars of God’s money to a church that is pastored by a woman and is pro-homosexual and pro-abortion. You have led other members of the staff to follow you in some of these regrettable wrongs.
You are reportedly accepting a salary which is about twice what the former pastor of our church was making after being our pastor for about thirty years.
You have unfortunately given the world the impression that although you preach the truth of God’s Word from the pulpit, you neglect to practice what you preach in your daily walk as though you are somehow exempt from doing so.
You have given us all the impression that you are of the mindset that the end justifies the means and that it is therefore right to do wrong to get the opportunity to do what you perceive to be right.
You have told us from the pulpit that you are going to teach us how to pray and how to worship, giving the impression that you don’t believe our former pastor was successful at doing these things.
You have given the further impression that you believe you have been chosen by God to rescue our church from what you apparently believe to be the mess it has been in for over a hundred years.
Pastor I don’t know how you can continue to stand behind the sacred desk and preach the Word of God which you repeatedly refuse to apply to your own life.
I know these are hard words, but you know they are true and may God have mercy on you, if you continue on this wreckless path you are following which is breaking the hearts of the people of God and dooming souls to hell.
Although it probably appears that I am bitter, I assure you that I am not. I am broken hearted and I have literally wept repeatedly in preparing this unfortunate communication.
I know that God loves you and I would be a fool to despise anyone whom God loves. I love you in Jesus’ name and will continue to pray that you will repent of your arrogance and pride and return to your First Love for the Lord’s sake, for your sake and your family’s sake, and for the sake of God’s people and lost souls everywhere.
Pastor, if you wonder who this is, I am the Holy Spirit speaking through the heart and mind of one of God’s lowly servants.
Enough said on these matters. I will make one more regrettable point and conclude my comments with prayer.
The inequities in our church staff which have been highly publicized and extensively debated both in the Spirit of the Lord and unfortunately in the spirit of the devil, give rise to a most ominous question.
That question is, “If what has come to the world’s attention publicly is only the tip of the iceberg, then how much more wrong has transpired behind closed doors in secret and to what degree and extent will these unknowns affect both the membership of our church and the salvation of lost souls both at Bellevue and around the world?”
Now as you read this prayer, again I am asking that you not merely read it, but also make it your prayer to God from your heart for both the staff of our church and for every member and for the ministries that our church both supports and influences around the world.
Heavenly Father, again we are too limited in wisdom and too weak in our flesh to presume that we can in our own strength even begin to cope with these most grave spiritual issues that are of such formidable magnitude and of such eternal import.
Therefore, we bow in your most holy presence and ask you to take control of our lives as never before. We long to be used of You, Lord, to bring glory to Your name and joy to Your heart. We want to be used to help others come to know You as we do.
We want our church to be an oasis to which we can escape from this dry and thirsty world on a regular basis and there be refreshed as our thirst for You is satisfied by the living water about which Jesus told that poor thirsty woman of Samaria when she came to draw water from Jacob’s well.
We want to have our hungry hearts filled as we feast on the bread of heaven, the living Word of God. We want to praise you with gifts and offerings and songs and prayers and worship and sweet fellowship with one another as we have in glorious days gone by.
We pray that You will convict every heart both in the congregation and on the staff of our church that is in dire need of being broken and molded and made into what your divine purpose is for each one. We want you to give us a spirit of love and forgiveness for those who are guilty of sin and are willing to admit it and forsake it.
If we happen to be among those in need of repentance, we ask that you convict us along with others and help us to name our sin and be honest enough and bold enough to do as David did and say, “I have sinned against the Lord!” Then help us to do as the woman caught in adultery and accept Your forgiveness as she did when you said, “Neither do I condemn you.” And then help us to do as you told her to do, “Go and sin no more!”
Restore, Oh God! your church, your people to their First Love that Bellevue Baptist Church may once again be the heavenly beacon of hope it has been for over one hundred years to a lost and dying world!
In the mighty and strong name of Jesus we earnestly, fervently pray! Amen.
11:25 PM, March 04, 2007
Gotta run! NASS is going to get me for these long posts!!
Til Later.....
Since sg has become pastor of Bellevue, we have made the news!
We got on t.v. and even national as well as local radio talk shows on how we broke the law by not reporting a pedophile on staff but how we protected the pedophile and kept him employed as long as we could.
Plus, now it is known how we hatefully treated and added to the punishment and sorrows of the victim of that pedophile.
"Bellevue loved the ungodly sinner and protected and hid his shame in darkness, and cursed and hated the victim, a righteous man of God."
We became a laughingstock of the unsaved world, when three old men who consider themselves to be leaders of the blind, and pay themselves well as leaders of Bellevue, climbed over a high fence to get access into a "No tresspassing" community. I often wonder what the people thought as they looked out their windows and saw these three old men climbing over the fence! It was to strongarm a man of God, who's reputation was deliberately slandered by these men and a sunday school teacher. I know my mail man asked me if it REALLy was true. When I answered with, "I'm afraid so." he drove off shaking his head.
Then steve gaines called this decon, whom he planned the surprise attack on, and called the decon Hezbullah! Hezbullah! Does that sound like someone who is out of control? Does that sound like a servant of the sheep? Does that sound like a leader of the blind?
How does this keep Bellevue's reputation before men and the world pure? It makes me think about the Three Stooges! Yet, the comedy before all is not funny. People are being hurt and villified and castigated by the very person who was hired to feed and keep them for the Lord.
Instead, he sees his job as taking out the trash! Who calls God's children trash? I don't even think the world, flesh or devil call them that. But the pastor for hire calls the sheep that don't agree with all he does, trash to be removed. Actually, from what I understand it is his wife that called them that.
Do we have what is called in the OT a priest (passtor) for hire? Did he come into the sheepfold in an honest and forthriaght way, through the front door, transparent in who he was and what his plan was for Bellevue? Or was it hidden from the sheep and only a select few who were in on it know? I don't know, but so far the fruit is pretty obvious, and it is not good. It is tearing down and hurting the reputation that Bellevue has had among the believers and unsaved world for a hundred yeaars! Now our reputation is in the gutter and our witness is dim. We are a joke and now who, if anyone holds Bellevue in respect? Certainly not the Christian world. Certainly not the lost world.
Thanks to,
Piglet, Koragg, and Former Pastor
and to NASS for not getting us.
Need to stay off this blog today BUT I must ask one more time...
Can The R family continue in silence when SG is SO confident of their silence that he stands in the pulpit and uses their good name and reputation to further his lies and deceit.?
Were the R family sitting in those seats when he said they were.?
Are they comfortable with SG saying to a huge crowd that he is so appreciative of the R's family support of him?
I want Mrs R protected . I don't expect a grieving widow who has been so disrespected by leadership to do anything.
I just wish some rep for the family would speak against their good name and reputation being associated with a liar and false teacher.
rod said..
"We got on t.v. and even national as well as local radio talk shows on how we broke the law by not reporting a pedophile on staff but how we protected the pedophile and kept him employed as long as we could."
There is a reason for protecting the homosexual/pedophile and for preaching a sermon on EASTER Sunday that included remarks about homosexuals and also a reason for the refusal to hear the victim. I am praying that the Lord will reveal it.
I think we need to give a round of applause to the pulpit committee for choosing a pastor that has put BBC on the map.
Let's all stand and cheer for Pat Caldwell, John Caldwell, Chuck Taylor, Steve Tucker, et all.
I know there are more members, but these are the ones that I can think of right now.
IF ( that's a big "IF") they had a SHRED of decency, they would cringe every time their name is associated with bringing this man to destroy our church.
Hey pulpit committee: Here's an idea: Why don't you help the BBC SS teacher repeat this lie:
" HE ONLY DID IT ONE TIME"
( referring to PW)
STAND UP AND TAKE A BOW!!! LET US ALL SEE YOUR FACES!!!
As bad as it would be to show your face to the congregation at BBC, , you will one day have to show your face to the Lord Jesus himself, and I don't want to be there when that happens.
Hmmm, or maybe you don't REALLY believe that's going to happen?
I am embarassed for all of you.
We have to be accurate if we are speaking out against this sinfulness.....
sexual predator/devient.
Homosexuality is in a different category as far as the staff predator of BBC is concerned
There may be homosexuals on staff since Brian Miller got all tangeled and flustered when asked to pass a motion of sexual purity for the ministers of BBC.
BBC staff sexual predator....
endorced by SR pastor and leadership
gets his high from the power of degrading and over whelming and CONTROLLING his victims.
He preys on women as well.
We must add nothing to the injury of the victim by not being as accurate as possible.
Mom,
I agree. He's hiding something.
Wonder what the pulpit committee knows and when did they know it?
Mom4, I don't understand. Are you saying that there is a good reason for protecting the pedophile and not allowing the victim to express himself or to be heard? And are you saying that the pulpit is the proper place to "deal with such issues" on Easter Sunday? And the scriptures are to be used as a battering ram for privite issues, which should be dealt with privitely, and one on one and not taken care of in a public venue, with criptic use of God's Word?
I don''t understand what you are saying. Please explain further, because if the "pedofile is in the right and the victim is in the wrong", (and if that is what I'm understanding you to say,) then we should not be kept in the dark about it and hear criptic messages!
Rod,
Let me answer for mom4.
That is NOT what she is saying.
Oh my goodness...absolutely not.
Mom is just saying that she is suspicious as to why he would be so devious and do these things. She is suggesting that he is motivated by something that has yet to be revealed.
Thanks, sickofthelies. Now that makes sence. If this is true, is it possible to have the victim post here or on saving Bellevue what it is that he wants to be made known? He evidently has something to say, if he was walking up to the microphone, and even though he was preavented from haaving his say there, there is no reason for him to go unheard,IF that is his desire, to be heard.
Thanks again for setting me straight on Mom4's post.
Rod,
Mom4 is a friend of mine. She has expressed OUTRAGE over the SG incident from day ONE.
She no longer worships at BBC and is thoroughly disgusted with the so called leadership at BBC.
Sometimes it's easy to misinterpret what people are saying, especially if you have not followed their posts for a long time.
But please know that MOM4 is a woman of the UTMOST integrity and would NEVER EVER condone the actions of SG.
I have delayed for several days posting this link, because it is extremely graphic. It does present the truth however and I believe that anyone that has supported the $25,000 donation to FUMC should realize that this is what they have supported.
WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
THIS IS EXTREMELY GRAPHIC!
FUMC SUPPORTS ABORTION
There is no resemblance to a good samaritan act, to financially support this church was a blatant fist shaken in the face of God.
Amy said:
Dr. Loney said....
The following has been a public health advisory from 'The Loney Wellness Clinic'(landlady's lawn mower shed)
I need to cleanse my heart, and apologize to Dr. Loney for ever doubting his medical credentials. You are a fine diagnostician and I am sorry I ever doubted you.
9:55 AM, April 14, 2007
Amy,
Thank you for your heartfelt apology. You are not the first to doubt the good doctor, nor will you be the last.
The cyberprofessors at The Mexico City Communnity College Medical School initially had their doubts, and when I was doing my undergraduate studies at the Montgomery Coin-o-Laundry/College of Liberal Arts, F.T.W.I.T.A.L.F.T.T.P.T.G.E.E.(For Those Whom it Took At Least Five Times to Pass Their General Equivalency Exam), I even sometimes doubted myself. But hard work has produced the highly regarded health expert that I am today.
In appreciation, if you would e-mail me, I will reciprocate with a 'Daily Nugget', from "The Loney Family Archive of Heartwarming Quotes". From time to time, everyone needs a lil' billloney.
William T. Loney, M.D.
rod,
All I am saying is that no one in their right mind without some presently hidden agenda would act like Steve Gaines did regarding the pedophile incident. And no pastor would address the Easter Sunday crowd with railings about homosexuality without it already weighing on his mind. The reasons are presently hidden, either by the pastor and/or his immediate staff and possibly some in his family/friend relationships. I am asking the Lord to reveal the heart of this matter, because I don't believe Steve Gaines will ever be forthright and honest about it. I believe the Lord is allowing him time to repent but it looks like he is so arrogant that he will cover it until the Lord's patience runs out and then the Lord will reveal it for the world to know. He needs to repent, recant and resign before it all boils out in the public arenas and he shames the Bride of Christ even more than he already has.
If I knew factual specifics, I WOULD TELL!
No need to post very long items when they can usually be linked. "Former pastor's" two long (and excellent) comments were already here:
Part 1
Part 2
Note: If you have a particularly long document (or photo) you want to share but don't have a way to link to it, please e-mail it to me and let me put it on the server so I can give you a link for it. This will greatly help to conserve space in these long comment threads. Rule of thumb: If I have to scroll down more than once or twice to read one comment, that comment is too long!
If you still think that this was really no big deal, may God have mercy.
Rod,
I"m sure that the victim ( or survivor) is aware that this blog exists.
He has to decide for himself where, when and how he wants to be heard. That is not for us to say.
I'm sure that he is doing what he is capable of doing, and we should respect that. This fine young man, father of 4, has lived with trauma. HE gets to decide what he is comfortable with. We should not question him.
He deserves our respect and our prayers.
Mom,
YOu and I would be on top of BBC with a megaphone if we knew!!!
They would be pulling us off the roof and we would still be yelling!!!
LOL
Back to 12:41, People that support the $25,000 donation to FUMC need to view this link.
The entire staff and leadership that were involved should be required to watch this 3 minute clip. To this day the administration and lay leadership have defended this as a good Samaritan act. Now you have the pure unvarnished truth.
SOTL,
Thanks! You are too kind:) I have been outraged and continue to be so when it comes to many of the events and "tall tales" the leadership spins. The latest being that disgruntled BBC members are flocking to GBC to try to make it a "little bellevue". What a foolish statement! My reasons for going are many, but mostly my need for the fellowship of other Christians and the need to hear the Word preached in integrity and truth. The reason I choose GBC is because the present membership has already fought the good fight and removed the sin from the leadership and those that remain are worthy of my respect and I consider it an honor to sit in the Lord's house with them. The only reason I have not joined is because the Lord has not told me to move my membership yet, but He has given me perfect peace about my choice of places to worship.
Tim,
My heart grieves over this situation with FUMC. I almost got into a "fight" with someone (on staff at BBC)who told me that "it was our responsibility to reach out to the community". I cannot go into details right now because it gets my blood pressure boiling and I just started my new meds so I have to be careful, but this is a battle worth fighting!
Nass,
Consider it done;)
WTL, M.D.
Tim,
I just watched that video.
I cried.
I don't know how any human being could defend such a thing.
I don't know how any Christian could think that giving $25,000 to a church that supports abortion could think that it was a good samaritan gift.
May God have mercy on us.
offline
The $25,000 donation!
Steve Gaines Instigated It!
Harry Smith and the Finance Committee Approved It!
Phil Weatherwax Delivered It!
Staff Members have Defended It!
Lay Leaders have Minimized It!
Members have Ignored It!
GOD HAS CONDEMNED IT!
Do not accept anyone telling you that they did not know! They knew full well who Martha Wagley was and her stance on this issue! She has never been in the shadows on this issue or the issue of homo-sexuality! As a matter of fact, she has been at the fore-front of these issues. She has not only spoken and supported these abominations, but also organized groups to support them! This is a well know fact! This is what our leadership has deemed to be financially responsible!
Since King Stevie is so confident that there are only about
100 disgruntled members left....
he said that to a 19 year old this past week...
that 19 year old has more decernment than most of the adults at BBC..
Since SG has run so many off and the ones left are willfully blind....
Why don't we bring all the RUMORS and Facts we can't prove ourselves to the media
and demand that BBC leadership PROVE it is NOT true.
Many thousands of dollars have been used to promote their agenda
and to cover for leadership involved in adultery,perversion, corruption the breaking of the law
Let the leadership shell out their own money......we choose the private investigater...or Wendy Thomas from CA chooses
DO THE BACKGROUND CHECK not done before SG was brought before the church.....
find a way for the finance people in the know BEFORE the books were altered to speak the truth
Let the burden of proof be on the power brokers ,the brutes, and the arrogant one that lies from the pulpit .....
and lies to 19 year olds who ask for answers.
Come on JMO,4545,TRUTH RUSE......you have demanded WE prove what we say is true
Prove it is NOT true!!!!
Go back to the 12:41 link.
This is what we have become as a nation and now this is what we support as a church.
Tim says,
Those responsible for the gross misuse of the funds of Bellevue Baptist Church need to be removed from whatever leadership position they hold.
We do not answer to you but to GOD...
not you 4545,
not to SG
PROVE he is not what we see and hear
Prove he is not a liar and a false teacher
Worry about your own soul
You have no power or control over God's truth or His remnent
4545 said...
I have one last comment/question. How many of you on this blog have spent more time praying for Brother Steve and the entire Bellevue Staff than you have on this blog and off dealing with these "issues"?? More time in true prayer for them rather than bashing them, attacking them, and disrespecting them?
Tim says:
The amount of prayer is immeasurable. How much time have they spent, praying about anything? Obsiously, not enough to be directed by God in any of their actions.
More time in true prayer and repentance instead of using the pulpit as a means to belittle, attack and disrespect those that have attempted to present the truth. Time using the pulpit to reveal the truth instead of lie about it.
Obviously the answer is that they have either spent none or have prayed as a Pharisee and God will not hear them in that state.
No need to respond to 0000 at all.
gmommylv,
Thanks for the truth.
It is so difficult for some to understand that a lie is sin.
The truth is not.
May God have pity on their souls.
4545 or SG or DC
or any who try to deflect away from the sins of BBC leadership
ARE THE LAST ONES TO SPEAK WHAT IS AND IS NOT A SIN
Tell leadership about THEIR sins
WE will be accountable ONLY TO GOD
Take your powerless babble to the ones you serve
PROVE SG and the ones that support his lies are NOT THE ONES WHO SIN AGAINST ALMIGHTY GOD
It has become obvious to many that there is a group that have only one goal.
To become mighty BEFORE God,
flaunting their power before God,
shaking their fist in the face of God.
But not mighty OF God.
Nimrod Babel Building.
4545,
Why do you come on here spewing your hate and venom when what we are speaking is the truth. YOU GO PROVE IT IS NOT AND WE WILL LISTEN TO YOU! Now go away!
Jeremiah 5:1-3
1 Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it.
2 And though they say, The LORD liveth; surely they swear falsely.
3 O LORD, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return.
Psalms 119:42-43
42 So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.
43 And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.
Tim,
SO the BIBLE demands
leadership be above reproach...
to live up to the scriptural qualifications for
ministers,deacons and elders......
yet they lie and pervert and steal and cover their sins
but a peon who demands these false teachers
be held accountable
is the sinner.
sounds just like the perverted theology that has taken over BBC
Isaiah 59:1-4
1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2 but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
Deuteronomy 32:4-5
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
Proverbs 12:17
17 He that speaketh truth showeth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.
Psalms 60:4
4 Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth. Selah.
Deuteronomy 32:4-5
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
Galatians 4:16
16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Galatians 4:16
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
The enemy has become the man that speaks the truth.
James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
If there is anything that anyone would like to know from me my email is on my profile. I even answer to those that chose to be anonymous. There is no reason that I must be careful in how I answer or make provisions for those that would question me.
4545 said,
1. You are not my mom and you do not tell me what to do. You post the very same things you bash others for doing. Double Standard.
RESPONSE: You are lucky you are not my child. You deserve to be turned over my knee for your behavior! Double Standard? I don't think so.
2. It is not our job to spend every waking hour trying to disprove anything. You and others can do as you wish, but MOST are going to get back to doing the Lord's work. Your minds are made up and will never be changed unless you allow God to change them.
RESPONSE: It IS your job to present all things honest before men and God. Since you are willing to swallow and follow and not seek the truth, you are failing at your Christian responsibilites.
We are open to truthful answers to honest question - try us and see!
3. Are the HOURS and HOURS most of you spend on this blog well spent?? The time that is taking away from your jobs, family, and God?? Just a thought
RESPONSE: And you are on here so much because??????
John 3:20-21
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
BLOGGERS,
I IMPLORE YOU NOT TO RESPOND TO DEACON 4545. IT AIN'T WORTH THE EFFORT. YES, I'M SPEAKING LOUDLY!!!!!!!
Double Naught 0,
Don't you have some women you need to escort into planned parenthood this afternoon? Or some pro choice rally somewhere? Or how about the local chapter of the Man Boy Love Association.
Crude? Maybe, BUT...you seem to pay lipservice to being AGAINST the decision that SG made to keep PW on staff, but your actions prove otherwise. You have left yourself open to speculation that you condone this sort of thing.
Since you support SG, you have proved to us that neither abortion or pedophilia are particularly offensive to you.
Nothing else you can do or say will change that perception. Steve Gaines has spent his own integrity and now he has spent ALL of yours as well.
Run Along.
4545,
Okay, one more time. YOU HAVE BEEN PERMANENTLY BANNED FROM POSTING ON THIS FORUM! What part of that do you not understand? Are you really that thick or do you just like to act that way? Either way you come across as nothing but a shrill, whining ninny.
You have not brought anything to these discussions but accusations of "hate-filled bloggers"! You have never posted one piece of evidence that would disprove anything that's been stated here, nor have you posted anything to back up the statements you make. You have had more than enough opportunities, and you still have not responded.
So now, for the last time, Mr. Deacon. GO... AWAY... AND... DO... NOT... COME... BACK... HERE... EVER! Do you get it?
NBBCOF
P.S. To everyone else, please forgive me for that outburst, and I would like to ask you to please refrain from responding should the troll(s) show up again. I realize it's tempting, but this is what they thrive on! Ignore them, and they will get bored and go away.
Note I didn't call Mr. Deacon a "ninny." I merely pointed out that he comes across as one. Kind of like when Steve Gaines told Mark Sharpe he was "acting like" Hezbollah. He didn't call Mark "Hezbollah." You see the difference, I'm sure.
Tim,
Did Steve Marcum accompany Mr. Weatherwax when he delivered the abortion and homosexual check to the apostate church?
Tim,
Just in case he did, I just wanted to give credit where credit is due.
sotl,
I do not know if Steve Marcum was there or not.
I do know that Wayne Vadersteeg is the only person that has taken responsibility and apologized for this action. However, he cannot apologize on the behalf of those responsible. They must own and confess their own sins and the fact of the matter is that they refuse to see this as an error of any shape form or fashion.
If I had personally been involved in this action, I would have demanded that I be allowed to repent before the congregation. If that request was denied I would have shouted from the balcony for forgiveness for what I had done.
The Lords work according to deacon 4545
1- Lie to the sheep.
2-Intimidate. and berate all those who question questional behavoir.
3-Give money to those who are opposed to your core beliefs(FUMC)
4-Pay yourself obscene amounts of money.
5-Twist the Gospel to support ant unbiblical position you choose to support,or intimidate the sheep.
5-Hide child molesters fron innocent children and their parents.
6-Break the law by trespassing on private property to silence an opposing view.
7-Use proxies to attack those who question the church leadership.( sound familliar mr 4545)
8-Fire and humiliate all staff members and volunteers
who disagree with the leadership.
8-Lie to the sheep.
9-For good measure lie some more to the sheep.
Yes Mr 4545 lets return to Gods work.
NBBCOF said,
Note I didn't call Mr. Deacon a "ninny." I merely pointed out that he comes across as one. Kind of like when Steve Gaines told Mark Sharpe he was "acting like" Hezbollah. He didn't call Mark "Hezbollah." You see the difference, I'm sure.
Reply: OK. :)
SOTL and Tim,
My first hand understanding is that Steve Marcum and Phil Weatherwax personally delivered the check on Love Offering Sunday, Nov. 12, 2006.
The reason I know is because Marcum advised his BFC class that very morning of his intentions.
NBBCOF,
I guess it's not the 'ninny' part that I liked best. It was the 'shrill
whining' that is really the most accurate. Da little feller just doesn't play well with others. I think he needs a spankin'.
Bad little feller. :)
Sorry Web boss couldn't help myself.The truth can be painful to those who hide from it.Mr 4545 used to be my hero now he is a 0000
Steve Gaines,
After your sermon on Easter mentioning homosexuality, please be willing to preach a sermon in the next several weeks on where you stand on drinking?
I would especially like to know your thoughts on ministers on staff at Bellevue and around the SBC purchasing alcoholic beverage for their dinner party.
Yes, I know the minister in question didn't partake himself at the restaurant but we would like to know where you stand on this issue.
I would also like for you to address the drinking of our youth please. It's a well needed sermon. In fact, perhaps it could be part of a sermon series pertaining to social drinking, drinking behind closed doors, and drinking in public.
Thank you in advance.
Steve Gaines,
I forgot to say that I don't know of many SBC pastors who would even consider purchasing any alcoholic beverage under any circumstance.
I think to 99% of the pastors out there, it would be something that would never happen
4545,
I believe the moderator banned you but just in case you are allowed to answer this question, here it is.
Do you beleive a minister can purchase alcoholic beverage in a restaurant for his dinner party?
Please explain your answer, either side of the table so to speak.
4545 says,
I like the part where you people seem to thrive on bashing others and making fun at others expense. This wonderful "Christian" blog
Reply: You like that part? You must, because here you are again.
OK,Smells like your diaper needs changin'. Head on home now.
Well, it looks like Max W. is on the line going postal again! Hi Mac! How's the book store?
4545,
Steve Gaines had nothing to do with the incident at BBC that 20/20 touched on last night either.
We know he was not part of that but he knowingly, willfully, and defiantly allowed him to remain on staff.
We have another incident now involving another staff member who purchased alcoholic beverage for his dinner party.
I am curious as to what our pastor's position is on this. Will there be a reprimand? I don't think so because he's in no position to reprimand anyone.
Now you see my point. We are in trouble at BBC because once you cross that line, it almost impossible for a man to confront anyone about any sin from here on out.
Bye, bye Max W!
bontbeatthesheeo wrote:
"Sorry Web boss couldn't help myself.The truth can be painful to those who hide from it.Mr 4545 used to be my hero now he is a 0000"
I'm probably going to hate myself for asking this, but when exactly did you change your mind about... that? Was there a specific point in time when you changed, or was it a gradual process? Just curious. And a bit suspicious... if memory serves me regarding your activities here a few months ago. :-)
Shame on you Max W.! You pretend to be someone you are not, and you pretend to know things you do not. Bye, Bye Max!
Rod,
Would you e-mail me, please?
Thanks,
NBBCOF
New BBC Open Forum said.
Was there a specific point in time when you changed, or was it a gradual process? Just curious. And a bit suspicious... if memory serves me regarding your activities here a few months ago. :-)
I'm caught like a rat !! actually I hear that little expression at work often and thought I would use it.here.
You are right .It's been a long time since I've posted. I lost respect for SG long before the molester issue surfaced. I still cannot believe that so many give him a pass for that.Says a lot about BBC in general.Does anyone think that general membership will ever wake up?
I would like for you to think back about 20 months....do you remember the pastor search committee standing in a semi circle around the pulpit, explaining the reasons they beleived God had told them SG was to be the pastor?
I remember it well....I remember they seemed nervous, more than they had been in previous services. I kind of felt sorry for them and wondered why they seemed nervous....just my observation at the time....did anyone else sense that?
Also, I was kind of unsettled about the secrecy of the whole deal...in previous churches I had attended, the preacher would preach "in view of a call" and sometimes we would ask questions, and have the preachers resume....I thought I was the only one.
my personal belief is that since they knew that SG thought everything was wrong at BBC and they had agreed to change...they were in collusion, in planning the hi jack of the church, by not being transparent about thier plans...they are as much at fault than SG
Did I run everybody off?
liloleme,
I'm here. Every Baptist church I have ever been in has the prospective pastor preach 'in view of a call'. Sometimes several times. I don't know what had been done at BBC concerning SG though.
Are you a member at BBC? I wasn't there when Dr. R was called, but I've heard the stories, and he preached in view....
Seems suspicious to me.
Oh, well, I was in the services when they said SG would not consider coming and to BBC (months earlier), take him off the list....you can imagine, I was shocked when he was the one with all the pomp and pagentry, sneaked in through the tunnel and introduced as our new pastor.
liloleme,
No. I am not a member at BBC. I am an interested 'outsider', and that causes more than a little worry for some who think the BBC situation is just a local concern. My stance is that this is a 'Body of Christ' issue beyond the 'local church'.
liloeme,
I am in agreement that the search committee in responsible. That is why they must stand behind this man they have witnessed throwing tantrums and behaving completely against scripture.
Some feel ashamed that they were not scripturally grounded themselves.
Some are so excited to be in the club.
Some enjoy having an unstable person in this position so they can manipulate for their own gain.
Some were already linked to this man financially.
All of them KNOW we would not have agreed as a church to the financial dealings
OR the decided changes.
That is why the financial books were closed and the 1st people to be forced out were the ones who saw and questioned the finances.
A credit and background check should have been done.
A minister who consistently has major debt issues is a red flag
A minister that requires excessive amounts of money has secrets.
I guess everyone is gone now....but I would like to suggest the following:
Although I agree that this blog is a great way for folks interested in integrity, honesty, and godliness...I wish someone would come up with a plan of action. A plan of action that does not involve Mrs. R defending her huband and her church. People, that is the MEN of Bellevues place. I am horrified every time I hear that she should do something.
If there is a plan of action, please let me know. If not, I think some folks should get a working plan together, and get going, OR although it is hateful to think about,.....move on.
Brooklyn Bob......
where are you!!
I'm glad your still here, I have the 1980's version of dial up so you can imagine how slow.
I'm also not a member of Bellevue ANYMORE. I was for more than 20years, and still love the people, and greive the direction that she has gone. But it is one local church, with in the body of Christ. So I agree that we need to pray and help if possible.
LilOleMe said...
I guess everyone is gone now....but I would like to suggest the following:
Although I agree that this blog is a great way for folks interested in integrity, honesty, and godliness...I wish someone would come up with a plan of action. A plan of action that does not involve Mrs. R defending her huband and her church. People, that is the MEN of Bellevues place. I am horrified every time I hear that she should do something.
If there is a plan of action, please let me know. If not, I think some folks should get a working plan together, and get going, OR although it is hateful to think about,.....move on.
4:35 PM, April 14, 2007
I VOTE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!Amen
It was probably 16 years ago that I asked for a membership list and was denied, based on the grounds that someone might sell it to a marketing co. I didn't even question it, weird huh? who knew it was the law?
4545, I know for a fact that there have been other staff folks there that wouldn't pass a background check....yet there they were....
The sweetest thing I know is that Jesus knows the truth! How cool is that!
lwood and liloleme,
Mrs R does not need to defend her husband nor the church. Both stand on who and what they were. Those reputations are not stained by what has developed since.
Therefore, as far as Mrs R is concerned, there is no defense needed. It is the current administration who needs to have a character check. And it seems they can back pedal real fast. (see supposed 'business meeting'). Doin' the CYA thing.
I do agree (against my thinking last night)that the Rogers should be left out unless SG tries to bring Bro.R down with him about PW.
In that case PW himself (not that he has any credibility)should put that lie to rest.
I don't know what action plan we can make against these who claim to be Christians and call us out to be sinless but continue to Habitually and arrogantly sin over and over.
So many have left.
So many are exhausted and have been intimidated.
So many have been wounded beyond repair.
Some have just opened their eyes and are looking to a small band of peons to prove to them what they should have seen themselves.
That is why my suggestion this morning was to give all our confirmed and unconfirmed to the media.
They love to expose ministers.
Or someone with the means to do some real investigation come forward and help.
There are so many that could prove what has been done but have been silenced with money so they have to expose themselves now........
Where are the wise REAL elders of the church.
There was one who stood up against a major power broker TWICE!
Then again, maybe all we can do is to continue to speak the truth and pray. We may not like God's timing but HE will not be mocked....we know that because we believe HIs word.
Let the burden of proof be on the sinful ones who have hijacked our church.
I agree! I have read several comments here saying she should make a statement, things like say Dr R didn't know about PW, have a spokes man, etc...-that is what I am referring to-
Those of us who have been around and sat under Dr. R for years KNOW the truth.....but please Mrs. Rogers shouldn't be asked to stand when it is the men 's place.
4545,
You runnin' from questions over 2 weeks ago. What new, Forest?
mom4,
Thanks for the update on the abortion and homosexual $25,000 check to the apostate church.
So let's make sure that we get it here, right out in the open:
STEVE MARCUM AND PHIL WEATHERWAX are responsible for delivering the funds for promoting abortion and homosexuality to the apostate church.
Stand up guys, and take a bow. Wave to your adoring fans in the worship center. Just don't expect to see a smile on the face of Jesus.
Have you no shame?
I'm signin' off, as my 1980's style dial up is getting to where it takes 5 minutes to load this page. If anyone has a plan......post on here, I'll be checkin' back!
God Bless You All!
Off topic but not really...
Go here: http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/
scroll about half way down and look for 'Yowza' and listen to a clip of Dr. Land (Yes, Land of SBC) saying that Muslims should be allowed to open Congress in prayer.
I would rather have NO prayers in Congress. What is happening to the SBC?
Lindon: I don't know what's happening but I don't like it. Nor, do I believe, does Jesus. Tolerance has become one of the most misunderstood words in the English language I think!
Concerned,
Yeah, 'tolerance' is now 'Mindlessness.' Everything is acceptable.
I had a professor who told me, 'it's ok to be open-minded, just don't let your brains fall out in the process'.
Tolerance has come to mean "We have to accept everything because we can't judge or offend anyone so no matter what you do I'm sure everything will be fine and, well...see you in Heaven!"
jmho...off the soapbox now....
Way more than you can imagine.
NBBCOF,
I'm holding back.....
Seems every time I drive around on Saturday I end up hearing Dr. Rogers.
Hearing his voice is so bittersweet. Our family is so blessed to have sat under this man of God for 25 years. We are fortunate to have his sermons on radio and television. I nearly cry every time I hear him. Sometimes I sit in the parking lot of wherever I am going until he is finished.
I miss him so much. My heart aches for my own loss and that of his loved ones and those blessed to know him personally.
Rogers family, you are loved and I am SO sorry all of this is happening. :(
gmommylv said...
Brooklyn Bob......
where are you!!
NEW YORK CITY???!!!
(pace picante)
Someone I will not name has shown up, NASS.
Zap him!
NASS....where's the trash can????
Someone get the fly swatter!!!
LilOleMe said...
It was probably 16 years ago that I asked for a membership list and was denied, based on the grounds that someone might sell it to a marketing co. I didn't even question it, weird huh? who knew it was the law?
4:45 PM, April 14, 2007
It depends on who wants the list, I have received wedding invitations at least 2 times from someone getting married at Bellevue that I had no idea who any of the people were. They had to be sending the invitations to all 30,000 members..wonder if that was postage exempt??
4545 said,
where are you getting this tolerance definition?
Reply: from pedophile harboring, fence jumping, no amen-ing, never had that dream,bad talk the church behind it's back,cuff and stuff a 15 yr old girl, fake-a-business meeting administration. That's where we get the definition. Is that good enough for you?
Drat!
I was just getting the Raid spray.
Oc,
When he can't stand the heat he gets out of the kitchen.
4545 said, You are way off then oc. i am gone
OC says. ok. And.... I thought so.
4545 wrote:
"i am gone"
It's about time. Stay gone.
BTW Folks, if you missed the story last night, its viewable on their website:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/
Just as a point of discussion I do not understand how, or on what basis, a man or person called of God to ministry can escape the confession and commitment of scripture.
1 Corinthians 9:19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. . . . (24) Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. (25) Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. (26) Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. (27) No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
1 Corinthians 7:29 What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; (30) those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; (31) those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away. (32) I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs – how he can please the Lord. (33) But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world – how he can please his wife – (34) and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world – how she can please her husband. (35) I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
2 Timothy 1:8 . . . join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God,
2 Timothy 2:3 Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. (4) No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs – he wants to please his commanding officer. (5) Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor’s crown unless he competes according to the rules. (6) The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. (7) Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.(8) Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, (9) for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. (10) Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. (11) Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him
Hebrews 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. (3) Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin.
Sorry for the length of the post but I do not think God has changed his mind about the level of devotion HE commands from one called. If a reverend chooses to pursue business interests, he should honor the holiness of the call and resign. I am not one to draw lines in the sand often, but I think this is irrevocably clear.
I think the organized church is making merchandise of Jesus and using the cloak of the Gospel to do it. And sadly most of us participate by remaining silent.
Lynn,
All I see is the 3:29 minute video clip which is linked in the topic heading. Is the full story online?
THERE'S A NEW TOPIC FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT.
You may find the new topic controversial (or not), but please think before commenting.
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE THE CURRENT DISCUSSION HERE.
Thank you,
NBBCOF
Eprov,
That is what I see as well. Our religion has evolved into a state that resembles the religion of the OT. Israel, Juda and all the trappings complete with self serving priests/pastors and church members all too willing to practice religion rather than develop a personal relationship with JESUS. That takes time and work in the WORD.
People are practicing religion, following man and the works of his hands rather than submitting to the KING of Kings. Getting into the WORD. The deeper one gets, the more HE reveals.
We are running headlong toward the judgement in Revelations and few care. Israel and Juda had the same attitude before Babylon crushed them. The people refused to listen to the prophets telling them of the coming disaster. They were practicing religion though.
Babylon will be crushed again. REV 17 and 18. He judges the church and the whole world then.
One just has to be suspicious when pastors today avoid Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Revelations.....How many sermons have you heard out of those lately? Wonder what kind of revival would break out if we were to just hire someone to read these out loud in church every Sunday and Wed. Just read them through. Tell everyone to bring lunch and make it an all day thing. Better yet, read them at home and praise Him on Sunday....
I was wrong. I thought the video for the full story was there, but its not. Just a written story.
liloleme & gmommylv,
I couldn't agree more that the men of Bellevue should strap on some knee braces and stand up.
Where are the men of Bellevue? Are the protecting their positions and names at the expensive of forsaking the church that Jesus Christ gave His life for?
Long ago, I said I would stand alone if I had to. I have continue to stand. I have not had to stand alone, but there has been little support.
One day folks will realize how strong men like Jim Haywood, Mark Sharpe, Richard Emerson and Josh Manning have been. It will probably be more than one day to late, but they will realize that these men took a stand for truth.
The rest of the men must have reasons for sitting back and waiting. I for one would love to know what they are. Why on earth would any man that knows the truth refuse to stand up for it! Are the convictions of these men so shallow that they are expecting that God does not require obedience from them! Without any doubt I can state that God expects men to confront sin. So where are the men of this church.
I viewed Tim's video posted at 12:41 pm on Apr 14 and I literally cried from the depths of my soul. I am appalled that Steve Marcum participated with Phil Weatherwax in delivering the $25K to FUMC. I hope someone will pass the word to both these men to view this video - they need to get on their knees and ask God to have mercy on them for their participation in the furtherance of abortion. These guys need to focus on taking a stand and doing what's right in the eyes of the Lord instead of trying to protect their big salaries by carrying out the commands of SG.Come on guys, where's your consciences??
A plan of action that does not involve Mrs. R defending her huband and her church. People, that is the MEN of Bellevues place. I am horrified every time I hear that she should do something.
If there is a plan of action, please let me know. If not, I think some folks should get a working plan together, and get going, OR although it is hateful to think about,.....move on.
4:35 PM, April 14, 2007
I VOTE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!Amen
4:42 PM, April 14, 2007
oc said...
lwood and liloleme,
Mrs R does not need to defend her husband nor the church. Both stand on who and what they were. Those reputations are not stained by what has developed since.
Therefore, as far as Mrs R is concerned, there is no defense needed. It is the current administration who needs to have a character check. And it seems they can back pedal real fast. (see supposed 'business meeting'). Doin' the CYA thing.
OC
I think if you read this we are all saying the same thing.....There is no need for the Rogers family to defend anything. The men of Bellevue need to stand and be counted instead of running to another church and hoping the few of us left will defend...so they can return....Sorry to sound so down but I am this morning.
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