Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
About Me
- New BBC Open Forum
- This forum was created to provide a place where those who are seriously concerned about the issues facing Bellevue Baptist Church and the SBC can come to comment and exchange ideas. Anonymous comments are welcome, but it is respectfully requested that instead of choosing the "Anonymous" option those who want to post comments without logging in select a unique screen name. This lets everyone tell the difference between one anon and another without revealing any personal information. Under the box where you compose your comment where it says "Choose an identity," just check "Name/URL" and type in the screen name of your choice. You can leave the URL field blank. It would be helpful if you'd use the same screen name for any subsequent comments. This makes reading and following discussions easier, helps avoid confusion, and doesn't result in one person being credited for writing something s/he didn't. Comments by posters whose only purpose is to disrupt (i.e. trolls) will be subject to deletion. Your cooperation will be appreciated.
496 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 496 Newer› Newest»Cakes, I love you but not sure I can go to the Bratton blog...so THANKS for coming back!
OC: I hate to break this to you buddy, but my car died on Germantown Road Friday at Rush Hour (of course) so your car was needed by me. I knew you wouldn't mind.........
Charlie,
About pedigrees, my dog has a better one than I have. That's why I trust him for all my financial and romantic interests. By the way, he also eats better than I do. It's a dogs life...
fighting,
You may ask, but unfortunately I was asked not to disclose or discuss that. Sorry.
Concerned,
What? OK, friend. You need it more than I do, I guess. Hope you have a good time driving my new car while I walk 18 miles one way to work. Don't feel guilty, Love you friend. OC.
Maybe y'all could carpool.
OC: If it makes you feel better, it wasn't up to Oprah's usual stuff...it is a rattletrap to be frank. And look at it this way, you are staying healthy with a wonderful walking routine!
NBBCOF,
Thanks fer the idear. What about it, Concerned?
NASS- You are brillant! What about it OC? Of course...I wouldn't want to be responsible for you becoming a couch potato or anything.....
(Sorry for the silliness...but sometimes it's just fun to have a ho-ho and laugh!!!)
Concerned,
I'll settle for the rattle trap, thankyou. I have blisters on my feet that say, "remember concerned and socwork, remember concerned and socwork....". Believing the Believers, that's what's hard....
OC: well, if you want to be selfish about it...fine, you can have the rattletrap. Where is socwork when I need him/her????
Night all.....sleep well. :)
The Ho Ho's are nice! I am still chuckling over the moon bat....my son got a good laugh out of it...he thinks "old" people are so lame.....
I must confess to my brothers and sisters...I am humming a little tune....would love to be able to hum in your ear so I wouldn't have to COMPLETELY confess....maybe I could use "unchartered territory" as a rational for the itty bitty tune ringing in my head.....ding dong the witch is dead....she's gone,she's gone ,she's gone.......madam blog person,please feel free to delete me if I am too evil tonight:)
Alright, concerned, I'll walk. And make sure Socwork knows I'm walking too. Maybe ya'll can give me a ride sometime. I'll be the one with bleeding feet and a sign that says " will work for a ride to work". Thanks for your compassion. :)
In a recent email conversation I have had, a person said that they did not believe that Pastor Rogers was a man of God. They Referenced Romans 3 in stating their are no men of God.
I am asking for opinions on this text, because I am confused about why someone would say something like
gmommy,
Are you not sure it was the tin man?
Night ya'll. Blessings for tomorrow. Still dreamin' of my car...and the moonbats...offline.
Well, I know you have all been missing me! I was catching up and I noticed two things I would like to mention again since no one answered the first go round-
1. NASS- who was the "spokesperson" that presumed it would be okay for the article to be posted here? It seems like her "spokesperson" should have asked her first, not after the fact.
2. I am looking for some of our Bible scholars out there to comment on Memphis' question about Romans 3
as to whether or not Dr. Rogers was a man of God, because I have heard (seen) that phrase around here quite a bit.
bepatient,
I have already answered that question to the extent that I'm allowed. The "spokesperson" was indeed authorized to speak and did so before the fact, not after. Trust me when I say you're barking up the wrong tree!
I also know where you and your cohort are trying to go with your "man of God" line of questioning, and you can forget about it. I'm not biting and would encourage everyone else not to either. You and "memphis" are the only two I've seen speculate that Dr. Rogers wasn't a man of God, and I don't think you really want to go there. Besides, I'm sure we're all too "immature" to discuss anything that deep with you.
Good night!
The sermon preached by Dr. Nelson Price at Johnny Hunt's First Baptist Church, Nov 26, 2006 is an example of semipelagian preaching that is indicative of most SBC preaching. If you care to hear for youself listen to his fourth and fifth points, human mind and human heart. I would be fearful of calling any one pelagian, that is a heavy judgement but I do not have any reservation in calling this semipelagian. This gospel has infected the SBC as well as Bellevue and a sore punishment has fallen upon them for this grevious despite unto the Spirit of Grace.
1 Timothy 6:11
[ Fight the Good Fight of Faith ] But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.
This is one of 73 passages referring to "man of God". There are none righteous, that is, having a righteousness of their own. Imputed righteousness is an elementary truth of the faith. Arguing over such an elementary truth is straining at gnats...and the problem with straining at gnats, is you end up swallowing camels. jmo
And you don't need to be a scholar to see that big 'BUT' in Romans 3:
Romans 3
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
21- But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 - This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 - and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
WatchingHISstory said...
The sermon preached by Dr. Nelson Price at Johnny Hunt's First Baptist Church, Nov 26, 2006
Reply: WHS...if you will provide the link to the website, I'd be happy to listen.
ima,
Here.
Memphis and Bepatient,
Ya'll are baiting, and you know it. HOW LOW CAN YOU GO!!!!!
Now, now, Charlie...
You know that's just hate-filled gossip. Say it with me now...
G-O-S-S-I-P
LOL!
Of course they're baiting. I guess things are so slow over there that they're getting bored. Well, the sheeps aren't biting. Good sheeps!
Right Charlie!
Dr. and Mrs. Adrian Rogers are respectable people...present tense noted. They both have served our Lord God well. For any person to 'nick pick' the Rogers' especially at this point does nothing more than expose his/her own true character or lack thereof. They both have served their community and church well...would seem to me that the brothers/sisters in Christ should serve her well now by respecting her wishes for privacy.
If you have opinions, and we all do, just keep them to yourselves. If that is possible...
they need to try a different lure.
Mrs. Rogers,
You are in my prayers daily. I pray for you, I know you miss your husband. How wonderful it must be, though,to know that you will see him again, and this separation is only temporary!!!
A friend of mine told me that she saw you at church on Sunday and that you looked beautiful!!! You have such a sweet countenance about you.
I know that your dear husband would be so proud of you.
God bless you!!!
Charlie and others,
For folks who are so anti-New Age, you sure do think yourselves to be excellent mind readers. Memphis received an email. He is asking a legitimate question, and honestly after months of listening to people around here, I am interested in seeing what people have to say about it.
And as far as FIB goes, you can thank a few people around here for kinda taking the joy out of that one for us- we don't even bother with it much since "pedophilepaul" signed up. Either way, I would rather have a part in a forum with 1 positive thing to say than a million negative things.
I've been wondering about something myself...
In Ephesians 4:29 the apostle Paul wrote:
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.
In Proverbs 18:21 King Solomon wrote:
Death and life are in the power of the tongue,And those who love it will eat its fruit.
Technically, anything typed into a computer does not proceed from the mouth unless it is dictated. Only the fingers are used.
Do these verses apply to the things posted on a blog?
solomon,
I don't believe that God is going to be impressed with a technicality.
Agreed, but I still wonder if those verses apply to the hands, eyes, and personal computers.
Be Patient and Memphis,
Memphis said, “In a recent email conversation I have had, a person said that they did not believe that Pastor Rogers was a man of God. They Referenced Romans 3 in stating their are no men of God.
I am asking for opinions on this text, because I am confused about why someone would say something like”
Be Patient said, “Charlie and others,
For folks who are so anti-New Age, you sure do think yourselves to be excellent mind readers. Memphis received an email. He is asking a legitimate question, and honestly after months of listening to people around here, I am interested in seeing what people have to say about it.
And as far as FIB goes, you can thank a few people around here for kinda taking the joy out of that one for us- we don't even bother with it much since "pedophilepaul" signed up. Either way, I would rather have a part in a forum with 1 positive thing to say than a million negative things.”
Well, just let me say first off that if I was an excellent mind reader, which you imply, I am sure I’d have better sense that to tackle this issue with the two of you, Be Patient and Memphis. But since I am not a mind reader, but sort of stumped, here I am. I am in hopes some of you ‘anti-New Agers’ will pitch in here and help me out. You’d think I’d have better sense. I really do, but hey…aren’t we all in this together? First off, I am assuming this is Romans 3 to which you are referring. Romans 3:20-24? If not, correct me right now and lets get it right. Oh…and will you share the email with us? I do think that in order to get the full scope on this, you would need to share this email with those of us who you are asking to give you an opinion about it. ??? (Did that make sense? Hope so.) It really would be nice to know exactly what one is trying to discuss. Right? Oh…just a brief question here. Since you refer to Charlie and others as ‘anti-New Agers’, does this mean that you folks are ‘pro-New Age’??? Just wondering. Oh…and one more thing. Just so we do understand each other…this remark about Dr. Rogers. I would take your remarks to mean that you are referring to this great man as just an example of all the God called men out there, right? If you are referring to all ministers called of God I am game. If you are singling out Dr. Rogers alone, I am not game. So, lets get that one straight first. Okay? I’ll be waiting…
According to the apostle Matthew in verse 12:36 of his gospel, the Lord Jesus said:
But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.
I'm not really speaking when I write on a blog, so I suppose I won't have to give account for anything I put on here.
solomon,
If you're trying to be funny, you're missing the mark. If you're serious, just try to apply some common sense.
I'm reminded of the father who was reading Bible stories to his young son. "Lot was warned to take his wife and flee out of the city, but his wife looked back and was turned into a pillar of salt."
The son asked, "What happened to the flea?"
Moral of the story? Don't always take everything literally.
Memphis & Bepatient,
This outlandish question has NO BEARING on the current situation at BBC. So, drop it and move on to another subject. However,if ya'll are serious about getting an answer, might I suggest ya'll talk to the adminstration and staff at Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary for starters.
Charlie,
There was an entire thread with 300+ comments that was not related to the current issues facing BBC...
I don't think this would be the first time things got "off topic" around here if that is your line of reasoning. If you don't know or just plain don't want to answer, that is fine- no one is demanding an answer from you.
ima,
Dr. Rogers is the example that was used in the email, but I believe the question stands even if you take him out of the equation.
As far as posting the email, you will have to wait for Memphis on that one, seeing as it was addressed to him.
You know Be Patient...Charlie is right. You have some good sources at your discretion to question about this scripture. I am nothing. So, let me also refer you to the same sources that Charlie did.
Charlie!!! What was I thinking!!! :)
Ima
Didn't answer all the questions...
How convenient....(church lady).
oc...
don't despair...
Should I have the choice between myself and Mike Spradlin...hands down, I'd chose Mike Spradlin. And would advise the multitudes to do the same. I am humbled...
ima,
Don't sell yourself too short.. you do alright!
Today's broadcast will forever apply to us all.
"How to heal broken relationships"
Pray before, during and after you listen.
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/
Love_Worth_Finding/
Patrick
imaresistor
sorry, I do not know how to link and I did not provide sufficient info
Search: First Baptist Church of Woodstock - click on information resources then webcast/podcasts
in quick search type id# 208
Here is my personal e-mail to memphis where this whole man of God thing got started. Since he decided to share our conversation with others trying to play 'gotcha', I decided to answer him on the blog instead.
Memphis:
Wow, you guys play dirty don’t you. No need to send this one out to your friends trying to play 'gotcha'. I'll do it for you.
If you understood scripture you would know that even aog did not negate the teaching out of Romans 3. (Imputed righteousness)as I was referring to it. NO ONE SEEK GOD. NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUSNESS. (GOD SEEKS US)
Now, go study the Beatitudes that Jesus gave the disciples. These are really the standards for believers. Pay close attention to #1. Then go down and read about salt. The Beatitudes are the elements of the salt. Read what Jesus teaches about losing our ‘flavor’.
The whole men of God thing is a non starter because you are elevating it to a ‘man-made’ title when it is really imputed righteousness. Let me translate that for you: A so called REAL ‘man of God’ would be furious if you called him one. He would eschew the moniker because he is 'poor in spirit'. Beware of the man who doesn’t eschew the moniker.
Bottom line: God does NOT need us…we need HIM and a REAL “man of God” understands that.
You failed to mention on the blog what I did say about Rogers. How convenient.
You sir, are not an honorable man. Thanks for making that clear.
Lin
WatchingHISstory...
This morning our blog administrator listed it with a link. So, I got there and have listened to part of it already. Can you (in ten words or less *kidding*)explain in your words just exactly what this term means? Pelagian? I have heard it, have looked it up, looked it up again, and for some reason it doesn't stick. Guess you all know now that I don't have a PHD... (Oh, it just breaks my heart I had to give that away). Anyway...your description of this would help maybe. Thanks again for sharing this with all of us.
We are free from depraved tendencies, and able to obey God as Adam was.
semipelagian teaches that man though depraved still retains a measure of freedom by which he can cooperate with the grace of God.
too many words!!!
Pelagian
A follower of Pelagius, a British monk, born in the later part of the 4th century, who denied the doctrines of hereditary sin, of the connection between sin and death, and of conversion through grace.
Pelagianism
The theological doctrine propounded by Pelagius, a British monk, and condemned as heresy by the Roman Catholic Church in A.D. 416. It denied original sin and affirmed the ability of humans to be righteous by the exercise of free will.
From wikipedia.org:
Pelagianism is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature (which, being created from God, was divine), and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without Divine aid. Thus, Adam's sin was "to set a bad example" for his progeny, but his actions did not have the other consequences imputed to Original Sin. Pelagianism views the role of Jesus as "setting a good example" for the rest of humanity (thus counteracting Adam's bad example). In short, humanity has full control, and thus full responsibility, for its own salvation in addition to full responsibility for every sin (the latter insisted upon by both proponents and opponents of Pelagianism). According to Pelagian doctrine, since man is no longer in need of any of God's graces beyond the creation of his will,[1] Jesus' sacrifice is devoid of its redemptive quality.
This sermon reminds me of a used car salesman who does not have a good reliable car to sell, rather an oil-burning clunker and he is desperately in need of commission. He sells himself, "trust me this is a good car and Dr. Hunt is the greatest pastor in the world!" Then to soften his audience he tells an ethnic joke.
There are so many fallacies that it could serve as an example for how not to preach.
He starts with a half-truth, God is love and this statement sets the stage for the rest of the sermon.
Basically he says a truth: God has obligated himself to get the word to that person. (I want to know you.) God is not going to say no to you. Sounds good? No, The problem is he is boxing God into a situation where he has no choice but to be good. His definition of human free will deprives God of free will. This is an offence to us when someone manipulates us into being/doing good. This redifines election, foreknowledge and predestination. Infact his argument for these is an appeal to ignorance. It is equal to someone saying, flying saucers do exist because noone really knows for sure that they don't.
The bus stop is a vicious abstraction indicating he has not spent any time researching what the reformed position is.
His closing is a non sequitur illustration that makes no sense yet implies a logic of some sort.
This is way way off topic here, but I'm beside myself....I FINALLY GOT ACCEPTED INTO NURSING SCHOOL!!!! WOOO HOOOO!!!..ok I'm done now.
AOG, congratulations. That is a mighty calling to be in nursing. Remember that Christ ministered to people's needs before he ministered to their soul. You will be in a special place of ministry for your life and have a wonderful opportunity to share the love of Christ. As your help to heal those broken bodies I pray that you will be able to show them One that can heal all.
lin,
Thank you for your post. That should put that bit of drivel from Memphis and Bepatient to rest.
AOG,
Come on, tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back. Congrats.
Congrats, AOG!
I remember a dedicated Pastor saying “ If we don’t stand for something we will fall for anything. I believe that is what many at BBC have done. Many have not stood for God, the truth, and God’s church. They have fallen for a lie, half truth. We have sat back and watched one man come in and turn BBC upside down. He said he did not want to come here and now he is acting that way. Saying his sermons are shallow is a overstatement. He takes God’s word and beats and not lead. He did Dr. Whitmire worse than anyone I have ever known. He should have been present at the budget meeting on Sunday 11, especially with all the things that are going on in the church. They said offerings are up even though attendance is down 11%. That is very hard to believe. Most of the other leaders are no help. They act like they have no idea what is going on. Sunday’s attendance was so light it was frightening. What are we going to do? Stand. Stand for God. Stand for the truth. Stand for Bellevue. Stand.
An article on the influence of Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism in modern evangelicalism.
http://www.modernreformation.org
/rc01pelagian.htm
SBC does not have to my knowledge an official position on irresistable grace however clearly Bellevue's position is resistable grace. From cover to cover the Bible supports the view that God cannot be resisted. God is patient and longsuffering but eventually his will reigns supreme. These two views have pratical implications. Both views result in experience. Resistable grace results on the positive side; rugged individualism, self-determination, discipline, self mastery however on the negative side it results in obstinance, pride and arrogrance.
Irresistable grace if genuinely experienced results in brokenness, humility, weakness, a sense of really being a sinner saved by grace.
"Lord, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: THOU WILT PREPARE THEIR HEART, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear." Ps. 10:17
AOG,
GREAT!!! Way to go. Congrats!!!
watchinghistory,
Here is an interesting link to the 1813 Baptist Catechism of the Charleston Association
http://www.reformedreader.org/ccc/bapcat.htm
It will be familiar to you. :o) The question is: What happened?
Aog, congrats! Now the fun begins.
AOG,
Come on, do the WOOOOO....HOOOOO thing again!
Thanks for the congrats everyone. It's been a long road and 3 tries to get here, so I'm thanking and praising God for his mercies. Ok OC, one more just for you...WOOO HOOOO!!!...ok back on topic.
No, NO, TIME OUT! Everybody celebrate AOG's victory!! Everybody key in, "WOOOOO....HOOOOO!!!"
The current confessional statement of Southern Baptists is the 2000 version of The Baptist Faith and Message. Although it is not nearly as strongly "Calvinistic" (or "Reformed" or "Sovereign Grace", if you prefer) as previous Baptist confessions (such as the 2nd London confession), it does make a clear statement rejecting Pelagianisn and semi-Pelagianism, in Article 4, "Salvation", where it says: "Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ."
This is not a direct affirmation of "irresistable grace", but it implies it, as it would be difficult (theologically) to hold to the idea that regeneration comes prior to repentance and faith (as Article 4 states), but then also claim that once someone has already been regenerated by an act of God's grace that person could still resist that grace and chose not to repent and believe.
(Clear as mud?)
junk99mail,
Some of the 2000BFM is somewhat of a concession to the growing number of calvinists in the ranks, although confessions subsequent to the 1689 LBC were also decidedly calvinistic in tone...ie: The Philadelphia Confession, and also the Sandy Creek confession, though not as strongly as the Philadelphia.
WOOOO...HOOOO!!!!
Also the Charleston Confession as lin pointed out.
WOOOOO....HOOOOOO!!!!
Proud of you, friend!!!
AOG,
Exactly. You can see a move away from strongly Calvinistic language in the various confessions over time, and you can also see a few phrases in the 2000 BFM (like the one I quoted) that reflect a more Reformed vocabulary than the previous version. But I wonder if those who are strongly anti-Calvinistic in SB leadership actually recognized the implications of the section I quoted as the new version was being compiled.
Come on, Junk99.
loosen up and do the WOOO...HOOOO!!!
junk99mail,
I'm not only sure they were aware of it, but had a hand in wording it in a way that leaves a back door open so to speak...still keeping that "big tent" mentality if you know what I mean. Like you said...clear as mud. Stopping short of a clear, concise statement.
The move away from the stronger earlier confessions really stepped up when EY Mullins took over as president of Southern Seminary, then served as SBC president.
I keep the Heidelberg Confession on my desk to just read over and over.
1.Q. What is your only comfort in life and death?
A. That I am not my own but belong with body and soul, both in life and death, to my faithful Saviour Jesus Christ.
I woke up New Years morning at 4am with that thought on my mind. What a way to start the year!
Will we ever as a body of believers ever achieve the level of spirituality as thoes in 1563?
What a day to have lived!!!
solomon said...
According to the apostle Matthew in verse 12:36 of his gospel, the Lord Jesus said:
But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.
I'm not really speaking when I write on a blog, so I suppose I won't have to give account for anything I put on here.
nbbcof said...
solomon,
If you're trying to be funny, you're missing the mark. If you're serious, just try to apply some common sense.
I'm reminded of the father who was reading Bible stories to his young son. "Lot was warned to take his wife and flee out of the city, but his wife looked back and was turned into a pillar of salt."
The son asked, "What happened to the flea?"
Moral of the story? Don't always take everything literally.
Actually, I'm trying to make a point before I sign off. I’m not the greatest writer in the world, so bear with me.
Yes, it is common sense. Of course it is. Whether it's the spoken or the written word (or typed), the point is that something ugly has passed out of our heart into the life of someone else. Just because King Solomon didn't write about Blackberries (sp?) doesn't mean we can go out and buy one to circumvent God’s law.
Before I go any further, let me say this is not about anything that anyone has posted. I know that emotions are running high right now, but it’s not about that.
I’m concerned that people are being misled. Several bloggers have gotten caught up in the hysteria that a conspiracy led by Rick Warren to weaken the church is underway, and all our energy must go to stop it. I’m pained to say this, but the Western church was powerless long before RW ever came along. We are further away from sound doctrine today than at any time since the Reformation.
Back to my point. If I cited Ephesians 4:29 and said, “you shouldn’t email anything hurtful, either”, I’ve taken God’s Word and made it culturally relevant. I’ve engaged the culture, just like RW doing. You do it all the time, too, whether you realize it or not. There’s nothing wrong with speaking to people in ways they can understand. That’s not the problem.
The problem is the goal, not the strategy. If I shared God’s Word in that particular context, my goal would be to increase godliness. RW’s goal is to increase church attendance. At no time has sharing the true gospel increased regular church attendance, so if numbers are the goal we’ll have to leave that out. Appealing to something fleshly will work much better, and that’s what seeker churches do.
The CGM is not the problem. The problem is that the church has so completely forgotten its first love that numbers are the ultimate sign of success. We are so far off the path that it will take a direct act of God to bring us back. Christians walk by faith, not sight, and yet something visible (crowds of people) has become our idol. That’s the problem, but it’s nothing new. E.M. Bounds wrote about it in the 1800s.
Over the past few weeks a lot of links have been passed along with examples of ‘the emerging church’ and ‘bad preaching’. Don’t spend your life on that junk. Time is short. Our days are numbered. Gain wisdom, yes, but keep the first things first. There are so many better ways to spend your time. Read God’s Word. Get together with fellow Christians and share your faith. Sing hymns. Study church history. Pray. God will honor all of those activities.
I read that one highly motivated conspiracy theorist has studied the PDL for over 10,000 hours. 10,000 HOURS!!! Assuming he slept 8 hours a day, that’s 625 days, or 1.7 years. (Imagine studying one book every minute of every day from now until 2009.) Whatever his reasoning was, that was a colossal waste of the precious time God has granted him, and he'll be held accountable for it. If Jesus comes back in my lifetime, may he find me reading the Bible and not Rick Warren.
And you, too.
Best!!!
Yes, AOG, and let's not forget the impact of Scarborough on evangelistic methods ... :)
watching,
those old confessions and catechisms have much to teach us for sure.
junk99mail,
There've been many over the last 50-100 yrs who've moved the denomination toward a more Arminian theology.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
(how's that, oc?
Great, Junk.
A professor at SBTS, Jim Scott Orrick, put the 1813 Baptist Catechism questions in song format. They are short and easy to remember. Great for kids. My daughter listens every night after Bible study.
Here is a link for anyone with kids who is interested
http://www.graceandtruthbooks.com/listdetails.asp?ID=794
solomon,
Wise words my friend. The church has been in trouble long before RW for sure...imho..he's just a manifestation of what's been coming for some time. In the absence of Biblical truth, there's nothing left but a vacuum, and nature hates a vacuum, so something will fill it..unfortunately it's a watered-down version of the gospel that is no gospel at all. Good points.
solomon, then you must think Pastor Bob Dewaay is really horrible. He spent untold hours on the PDL discernment tool.
http://cicministry.org/berean.php
In order to understand why we are where we are, we have to be in scripture. There is no other way to recognize what is wrong with American pop theology.
AOG, yes, many. Just as Mullins led the charge in theology, Scarborough led it in evangelism. I suppose there were folks in those days who warned of Mullins-ism or Scarborough-ites. :)
But lest I come across as trusting too much in my own understanding. let me digress a bit. Though it is not a bad idea to direct people to truth by pointing out error, the real problem is never with those with whom we disagree theologically (just as the real solutions are never with those men with whom we agree). "We wrestle not against flesh and blood" ... no human, particularly no brother in Christ, is the real enemy, and no (mere) human is our Savior. I have no doubt that the devotion to Jesus of many men and women with whom I would not agree theologically is much greater than my own. And just as I am not saved by my works, or any thing in me, I know that my salvation (nor even my holiness in God's sight) is not dependant on the "rightness" of my doctrinal beliefs. Neither is anyone else's ... it is truly All of Grace.
I need help from your guys. I read this from Solomon, "I’m concerned that people are being misled. Several bloggers have gotten caught up in the hysteria that a conspiracy led by Rick Warren to weaken the church is underway, and all our energy must go to stop it. I’m pained to say this, but the Western church was powerless long before RW ever came along. We are further away from sound doctrine today than at any time since the Reformation."
I spent many years under Dr. Rogers. He recommended that our BFC do group studies of the Purpose Driven Life. Many writers on this blog are saying everything Rick Warren has done is unBiblical. Now everyone on this blog seems to have gone more to the side of legalism rather than grace. Now I'm confused as to what Dr. Rogers taught us and what is now being posted on this blog. Dr. Rogers certainly taught us that Christians were to bear fruit but we came to salvation by the grace of our Lord. Well, maybe I am not confused just more concerned that much of what I now read seems to be contradictory to what Dr. Rogers taught. He certainly preached many messages against legalism and I'm sure he would be correcting some on this blog.
junk99mail,
I don't disagree with anything you said. I'm not trying to give the impression I have a battle with men, or an ax to grind with them... if I've given that impression, allow me to apologize...to me it's not personal..it's a war of ideas..I'm an admirer of John Wesley, though I vehemently disagree with his theological leanings..it's the fruit of his life I look at ultimately. But, as RC Sproul has written, ideas have consequences...and so I battle on in the war of ideas.
all of grace,
My daughter finishes nursing school in december, with a BSN from u of memphis.
She can't wait!!! She's already saying WWWOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO
It's a great profession AND a great ministry and you will always be able to find a job.
AOG... I wouldn't have guessed nursing school, you sound like a seminarian (as does Lindon) ... ever considered going to school across the street from Bellevue?
only a member:
what church was this?
NASS,
Is your name Millie?
Thanks.
Onlyamember...
Tell me this was not Bellevue? If it is, the moonbat mafia has reached a new low.
We need ministers in the hospitals too. Bless you.
junk99mail,
No, not a seminarian. I was just blessed to have a mentor in the faith early in my walk who taught me to study the Word, and shared his own extensive knowledge with me, as well as his library ;)...I love church history, studying the word and theology. If I were to attend seminary, Southern would probably be my first choice..not to say MABTS isn't a great school...that would just be my first choice.
sotl,
Thanks so much for the kind words.
AOG,
No, I didn't at all think you came across as battling with anyone. I was speaking only for myself ... I never want to leave the impression that I think doctrinal beliefs equate to personal holiness. There was a time when I might have thought so (though I never would have admitted it), but God has many ways of humbling me and reminding me that knowledge is not enough, and even external conformity to a rigidly legalistic Christian sub-culture is no substitute for the passionate devotion He desires. I don't know that I am any closer to that kind of consuming love for Him, but at least these days I know the difference.
ez,
Good to see you again..thought you'd dropped off the map ;)
AOG,
Southwestern's not bad.
junk99mail,
I understand what you're saying...the only theology that really matters, is the theology you put into practice...otherwise it's just head knowledge and of no value practically speaking..knowing the difference is a big step toward practical holiness.
OC,
Oh yea...they're all good schools...I just like Mohler, and given my theological leanings, that's probably where I would fit in best ;) But it's all academic anyhow...that's just not where I've been called.
AOG, I agree with OC, nursing is ministry also. And I praise God that the day has come when someone committed to scripture and to God's sovereign grace could say that Southern would be their first choice! Also nothing against MABTS, just saying it is wonderful that Southern is now so strong in commitment to the inerrancy of the Word and to their own theolgical heritage. (If it weren't for the way God used Adrian Rogers and MABTS, that wouldn't be the case!) God is good! As one who lived through those tumultous times in Southern Baptist life, I can take heart during times of discord or attacks on the truth, knowing that God has made sweeping changes before, and He will do so again.
NASS,
I sent you an e-mail.
AOG,
WOOO HOOO!
The incident did happen Sunday night at BBC. A witness confirmed it to me tonight.
AOG, once upon a time, MABTS would have been a better fit for you than it is these days ...
Yes, Bro, Your calling is indeed worthy. Thank God for those who follow the Lord's leading into such ministry. And I am so glad you have chosen to follow His leading in this profession. It makes me want to say, WOOOOO...HOOOO!!!! Happy for you, man.
AOG: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! I know you are so excited! Best Wishes!
The Holy Spirit is not moving over the face of the earth searching for calvinist he searches out the secrets of the heart looking to create humility. The mystery is that the man who assumes he is humble probally is not and the man who does not think he is humble may be. "Arise, O Lord; O God, lift up thine hand forget not the humble." Ps. 10:12
junk99mail,
Amen! God has always preserved for himself men who will stand for truth in the face of what would appear to be overwhelming odds in a human sense. What took place at Southern, and the other seminaries as well, is a tribute to that fact.
concerned, soc, OC, all,
Thanks again for the well wishes..it's been an exciting day for me today...thanks be to God for his blessings.
At 9:44 PM, March 13, 2007
FightingForTheTruth said...
NASS,
Is your name Millie?
Thanks.
junk99mail says ...
Greetings, "fightingforthetruth". Please don't take this as an attack or criticism, but I'm curious why you would ask that in the forum? If it is really something you needed to know, and if NASS was inclined to tell you, you could always email NASS using the email in the NBBCOF profile. Again, I'm not fussing, just wondering why anyone would ask that in public.
Alright, Concerned, get with the program. Come on, where is your 'WOOOO....HOOOO!"?
sorry, AOG.....
WOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
ez,
It's been a blessing to me to see how you've devoured the Word. I've seen you grow in leaps and bounds since this blog started. I thank God for the hunger he's given you for His word.
In all our excitement for AOG,this might have gotten away. There was a bad incident on Sunday night. There were witnesses. It was strong-arm tactics that should give all pause.
concerned,
LOL...thanks...OC has been my cheering section tonight.
Thanks to you as well, ez.
No doubt the security guards that did this to that young girl will be given a raise and made ministers.
After all, the pastor is an intimidator ( iddy biddy fence) why would he expect less of his security detail?
concerned,
It hasn't escaped me...I'm shocked to say the least. Does anyone know the story of why this girl was considered to be "trespassing" in the first place?
At 10:02 PM, March 13, 2007
WatchingHISstory said...
The Holy Spirit is not moving over the face of the earth searching for calvinist he searches out the secrets of the heart looking to create humility. The mystery is that the man who assumes he is humble probally is not and the man who does not think he is humble may be. "Arise, O Lord; O God, lift up thine hand forget not the humble." Ps. 10:12
junk99mail replies...
Indeed, and Amen! Reminds me of the preacher giving a sermon on Luke 18, where Jesus said, "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner." After reading that passage, the preacher said, "Aren't you thankful you aren't like that Pharisee?"
:)
Concerned, this was at Bellevue?
ARE YOU ALL starting to see a pattern here????????
There are no rules, no limits.
Anything goes, as long as it's brutal and it's intimidating.
The pastor has set the tone within the church.
The pastor and his goon squad climbed the fence to try to intimidate Mark Sharpe.
David Coombs laughed in my face and confiscated my file with impunity.
Now they are picking on 15 y/o girls?
It's ok to allow a pedophile to roam the halls, but oh my...let a girl that they THINK has been banned and they handcuff her? Call the police?
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE??????
SOTL....
The moonbats are running the asylum. (I refuse to recognize Gaines and Co. as leadership because leadership involves integrity).
watching,
Agreed...I don't wear my theology as a badge..God's not impressed by that...I'm a Christian first, by God's unfathomable grace, I'm a calvinist by conviction, a Baptist by both conviction and assignment...in that order.
It is hard to conceive of a church, any church, that would flat out ban someone from attendance, unless the person was some sort of personal threat or created a continual disturbance. But I suppose that's possible. If that were the case, or even if the security folks believed it to be, I'd want to know from both sides exactly what was said and done, in what context, and in what order, before making any substantive comment on this particular incident.
What stands out to me in this, is that 4 leaders of the church trespass and it's termed as no big deal..a 15 yr old girl "trespasses" into a worship service (still don't get how someone trespasses into a worship service), and she's hauled out and handcuffed by a crew big enough to wrestle down a few grown men. Someone explain that one to me.
AOG...
Seems to be they are picking on women and children.
Spurgeon said something to the effect that Calvinism is just a nickname for Christianity. My Arminian friends hate it when I say that! :)
Am I crazy here, or did that incident Sunday just open Gaines and Bellevue up to a major harassment lawsuit? I know if it was me being treated that way....I'd be calling a lawyer ASAP for the harassment.
And junk, your right, but at the same time, reguardless of the situation, security handled it totally inappropriately.
koragg...yes, at BBC.
Perhaps in their March 25 fiasco, they can go ahead and celebrate how wonderful 2007 is going under the " leadership" ( goonship) of SG.
AOG,
Sorry, I can't get over it.I hope you're grinnin' ear to ear, 'cause I am. Ain't God great?!!!!
onlyamember
Concernedsbc'er had dinner tonight with someone who was an eye witness to the event.
Does anyone remember my Titanic analogy? At least on the Titanic they TOOK CARE of the women and children, not exposed them to more possible traume.
I haven't moved my membership from Bellevue yet hoping there would be some resolution...but if Fat Tony...errr I mean Steve Gaines is going to use Mafia like tactics against people in the middle of a church service...I'm done. I cannot be associated with a church run by moonbats.
AOG...check your mail in a few....
junk wrote:
"I'd want to know from both sides exactly what was said and done, in what context, and in what order, before making any substantive comment on this particular incident."
I agree with your assessment. I smell a rat here.
OC,
Indeed he is..nursing school or not, he's always good.
Sick,
Why do you insist on calling people names? Most of us are adults here, can we try to act like them?
Do you still go to Bellevue? If not - will you ever be back?
onlyamember,
If you started a rumor like that and then put it on the blog for the entire world to see, that shows how low you really are. I continue to be shocked and dismayed at how far the Gaines supporters will go to seek and destroy the Shepherd's flock. Your behavior is despicable and your tactics are cold. Even if the story is not a rumor, aren't you ashamed that your church would treat someone so badly??
Why would someone want to start some sick rumor like that? I guess this is one more who's so offended by all the "rumor, gossip, slander" etc, that they had to see if they could get some started.
SOTL,
You have mail
I think I missed something. Did onlyamember recant their story?
concerned,
No email yet.
Concerned,
you have mail :)
junk , yes,
BUT...
concernedsbcer had dinner tonight to an eyewitness to the event.
I am confused. How did we find out Onlyamember was just starting a rumor?
allofgrace,
Yes, that's what happens when you have a 20 y/o that has the maturity of an 8 y/o.
Guys,
Cary Sidham is playing his little games with us.
Concerned SBCer says that she had dinner tonight with someone who was an eyewitness to the story, and this someone does not read the blog...
So go figure, who knows what game cary is playing.\\
Most of his friends are jr. high kids...so, what does that tell you?
mom4, why does everyone assume that this is some conspiracy by the staff at Bellevue? You don't really think that there's this think tank of people planning on sabotaging this blog? I love conspiracies theories as much as anyone but this doesn't make sense. It appears more to the kind of pranks that kids play. A lot like ringing a doorbell but this time it's done on the Internet. Also, why would the staff want a negative blog as this. They must be aware that many people would believe it and be upset. It just doesn't add up to anything but a big joke!
AOG...sorry...you've got mail...
sickofthelies said:
BTW, what's the attraction to all those jr. high kids you hang around with?
reporter says:
Maybe he is a Paul Jr.! Should we be concerned?!?!?
Alright, I'll settle down now. But as Christians we need to know how to celebrate victories. We can't constantly fight battles without acknowledging the victories God has blessed us with. It will wear us down, it will kill us. His victories energize us on to fight other battles. So,for me, one last victory cry....WOOOO...HOOOOO!!!
NASS and Charlie, I think an apology is owed to me. I never tried to start anything, I tried to get honest feedback from something in an email.
lindon, i was never going to name the person that sent me the email, so do not try and say I played dirty. I wanted to hear what people said with out them knowing who said it.
aog...
Congratulations. Lots of work and study ahead for you. You can do it.
Blessings,
Ima
truth,
It may very well be a big joke - to some, we will find out one way or the other and either put it to rest or raise the flag. I am not a "conspiracy theorist" at all, but the poster who put the first "bite" out is and he has a lot of company and they all use multiple names. That is not theory, it is fact. (And I mentioned nothing about the staff at Bellevue, I said "Gaines supporters", there is a difference.)I have a lot of respect for most of the BBC staff!
Now I am confused as to what is the truth. Can someone call the church and get the story. We don't need this going back and forth until someone can verify. Is this a rumor or fact about the girl? It sures sounds a little strange. I never knew we had that much security at any one time. Plus I've never saw any surveillance cameras in the church auditorium. I will be looking Sunday for them.
onlyamember,
yet you posted at 10:29 that it was a rumor..and then deleted that post..
so now you have changed your story again?
Sorry, mom4, I just hate it when people get blamed for something they didn't do. I just took your comments wrong. I thought you were talking about staff. I would be disappointed if our ministers had nothing better to do than start rumors or jokes on a blog.
onlyamember,
my sources tell me you are the mother of the child-in-question. Are my sources right or wrong?
ima,
Thanks..prayers appreciated.
Memphis, I gave you an honest response..whoever sent you the email must be straining at gnats, because there are 73 passages in Scripture referring to "man of God". Romans 3 teaches us that we have no righteousness of our own...not the perfect righteousness that God demands. It has to be imputed to us through Christ. A man of God is one who pursues righteousness and holiness, but who stands in Christ's righteousness and merit, which is the only thing that makes us acceptable to God.
onlyamember,
why did you recant at 10:29? and then deleted it?
AOG, I thank you for the response, and I do believe Pastor Rogers was a Man of God.
onlyamember
Why did you recant your story at 10:29?
Why did they have so many security guards get her? That seems excessive to me.
truth,
Not a problem. There are security cameras everywhere in the church. They can zoom in on a particular seat and take your picture. That is one of the reasons that we should do secret ballots on any vote that may be forthcoming by the leadership on 3/25. They can present a budget, a committee or anything else and never ask for a NAY vote - just like they have been doing. No one wants to believe that there is a conspiracy and like I said, I am not a theorist in that regard, but the way things are being run is no where near above board let alone scriptural, someone tell me what is going on if there is not a "plan" in place already???
ONLY
please answer my question.
Only.....the scary thing is that they security did nothing to get her Mom....they could have posted it on the screen or one of them could have gone to get her.....but that poor girl was alone with those many men...very difficult to believe.
Alright guys, be careful!
ONLY
AT 10:29 yu posted that you had started this rumor.
Are you saying that you did not post that?
Furthermore, you stated that I need to pay attention to facts.
OC: No, I didn't mean anything like that! Just for a 15 year old girl to be handcuffed and no one to help her...must have been frightening. Sorry, I didn't mean anything other than that. Please forgive me for not expessing my concern better. I just know I would have been very intimidated at her age to be in a situation like that.
OC: You've got mail
ok guys,
LISTEN UP!!!
I am on the phone with ONLY A MEMBER
listen
ONLY A MEMBER SAW IT with her own two eyes
The security guard told the girl to sit down and shut her ( very bad word that starts with an F) mouth
There are more witnesses than you can know...it did happen and it's wrong.
ONLY A MEMBER
says that her son is the one that the girl called to come and help her
onlyamember is a friend of mine, i did not know who she was when she was posting, but she called me to tell me who it is, and let me tell you...IT"S THE TRUTH. This woman is VERY VERY credible.
onlyamember is a friend of mine, i did not know who she was when she was posting, but she called me to tell me who it is, and let me tell you...IT"S THE TRUTH. This woman is VERY VERY credible.
she is not the mother
I"m tired of your S**T, and sit your Fing A*s down.
this is what the security guard said to her..
the boy that witnessed it was told by the security to go back in and to forget what he saw.
I think you owe your friend a public apology sickofthelies.
When a reporter like myself makes an error we have to follow-up with a correction story.
Set a good example for everyone else here okay?
concerned, you got mail, but I might have been mistaken on my estimate. Read accordingly as far as 'legitimacy'. Thanks, friend,
OC.
guys, i'm sorry for posting that, but i thought that you would want to know EXACTLY what these security guards said to her.
Not only was it witnessed by this boy, but there was a man in a car, parked near the front, that witnessed what happened..he did not know the child, but saw what the security said to her.
reporter,
I have apologized to my friend for misinterpreting her posts.
I have known this person for YEARS and she knew that if I knew who she was, that i would know it was the truth. This is why she called me a few minutes ago.
OC: You've got mail. :)
SOTL/OnlyAMember collaborates what my sourse told me too.
Is there a full moon tonight? Just asking...
Guys,
This church is sick. I'm in shock.
No one from the church has called to apologize. My guess is that they are trying to decide whether or not to deny it, depending on how many witnesses there are.
This 15y/o child was treated 1,000 times worse than paul williams.
NASS: seems like there might be...course, with the clouds I guess it would be hard to know.....
Thanks for clarifying sickofthelies. What about this sidham kid, have you apologized to them?
ONLY
Sorry, perhaps that was someone else that posted that.
But someone came on and posted that it was a rumor, and that he/she had just tricked us
Onlyamember thanks for your post too.
reporter,
IF the sidham kid did not post, i certainly do apologize for accusing him of posting ...
THat's a BIG " IF"
The only question remaining here tonight is this:
When will the security guards be ordained as ministers?
sickofthelies thank you. But as people often say on this blog, there is that "if" word so you aren't really sincere. Not trying to be ugly here, just pointing out what would be said to you if you supported Gaines.
Have a great night.
Guys, regardless of who said what, this is a situation that needs to be addressed. It happened, there are witnesses, end of story. What in the world would possess someone to pull a kid OUT OF CHURCH????
Just don't get it.......
Post a Comment