Thursday, June 17, 2010

Bellevue says 'you're out,' gay softball coach claims.



Click on title for link to Commercial Appeal article.

I'm quickly throwing this together now so people can discuss it if they want. I want to finish reading through the comments on the Commercial Appeal's site and will post some links and further commentary later.

Update: Since I have neither the time nor the desire to read 2000+ comments, here is the follow-up article. Steve Gaines' public statement (the unedited version) is below.

Commercial Appeal >> June 23, 2010 >> Ousting gay coach necessary, Bellevue Baptist pastor says

Steve Gaines Speaks

I don't think this would have ever been an issue if someone hadn't, as indicated in the article, tipped off the church, perhaps someone who knows her or assumed she's gay based solely upon her appearance. The latter is a terribly slippery slope down which no one should be going. Besides, I saw her on the news, and her appearance didn't "scream" anything to me. She is simply, as she describes herself, athletic in appearance.

I've even wondered if there wasn't some threat against the church involved. For example, "You're letting this softball team with a gay coach play on your fields. If you don't tell her she's not welcome, we'll go public with this." If that was the case, how'd that work out, guys? Of course I don't know if that happened or not and am not suggesting it did, just wondering.

I don't think we've heard the whole story by any means. To say the "no PDA" rule prohibits gay people from playing on softball teams seems rather lame. As one CA commenter asked, "Were they having orgies on the mound when someone hit a home run?" It doesn't seem likely that was the issue, rather an excuse.


I can sort of see where the church was stuck in the middle on this one. It was a no-win situation if someone were threatening to "out" her (which apparently someone did).

However, Bellevue created these potential problems when they opened the fields up to outside teams. Just like they created the annual "Celebrate America" (excuse me) "Starlight Spectacular" monster when they invited the whole community, then wondered why they had to close the building after they found people making out inside and climbing onto the roof and had to spend the next day cleaning cigarette butts, beer bottles, cans, and trash off the grounds.

This certainly doesn't help Bellevue's witness to the Memphis they claim to "LO♥E" so much and their "God Loves You Just the Way You Are" campaign. I guess it's okay to come as long as you don't come out. But for heavens sake, they need to clean up their own house first! If a fraction of the stories I've heard are true, Bellevue has a LOT of housecleaning to do.

I'm not condoning homosexual behavior either, but apparently if you go to BBC and are "just" an adulterer, fornicator, child molester, drug addict, rapist, felon, liar, or stay in the closet, that's okay. Just don't touch alcohol or openly associate with a gay person.


Bellevue has forever blown any opportunity to be a witness not only to this woman but to her teammates and much of the rest of the community. Actually, based upon the comments I've read so far it seems the ridiculous mishandling of the Paul Williams situation already did irreparable damage to Bellevue's reputation in the eyes of many.

Oh, wait. I think I've got it! Maybe the church's defense can be this is what they meant by the "no smoking" rule.

113 comments:

New BBC Open Forum said...

First four comments copied from end of previous thread:

New BBC Open Forum said...

Isn't it wonderful when Bellevue makes the front page of the Commercial Appeal?

12:30 PM, June 16, 2010

New BBC Open Forum said...

gopher said...

Just when you thought

"Bellevue Loves Memphis"

was true.. well at least for some...

(of course it's already not for a large segment of previous members)

But apparently NOT "that" part of

Memphis either.


Interestingly they even hyped it up having GAY's at the VUE . While Wes Bowen didn't use the word GAY, it was widely spouted on campus.

.

2:26 PM, June 16, 2010

New BBC Open Forum said...

Junkster said...

From the Commercial Appeal article:

According to Jacobson, Scotty Shows, the church's recreation minister who also attended the second meeting, told her that because she was gay the team could not play. She was told that the team's participation would send a message to Bellevue members that the church condoned her lifestyle.

Well, that explains it. BBC can't be perceived as condoning homosexuality, for fear of being kicked out of the SBC.

Exactly how playing softball with a non-church team that happens to have a homosexual team member could be perceived as BBC "condoning her lifestyle" is a mystery.

Jacobson said she is not looking for the church league to rescind the decision, and wouldn't return anyway.

Good thing BBC took a stand against gays -- wouldn't want any sinners around that BBC folks might share the love of Jesus with. "Forget that silly Great Commission stuff, we've got ball games to play, and we don't want any deviants messing up our fun."

Oh, and isn't it strange that BBC can't stand to be around gays when playing softball, but keeping a pedophile on staff at church was just fine?

I think this article deserves a new post.

10:01 PM, June 16, 2010

New BBC Open Forum said...

gopher said...

Oh

"Bellevues Loves Memphis"

but Bans a Black Female Ballplayer

Even Tim Simpson's station has chimed in.


Way to go Steve Gaines....

While monies of the once popular

Bellevue Baptist Church dwindle

creative ways try to bring it in

($350 per team registration fee)

Now its backfired and Bellevue now has a black eye

Anyone remember Steve Gaines, when he shut out Bellevue Members (Mark Sharp, Josh Manning, Richard Emerson, etc) and the press didn't know what to do?
Saving Bellevue Site

Well not this time.

Just think about all those monies being spent on Billboards , TV , VBS , Fireworks, etc

Now up in smoke


With this weekend's Forced Staff Visitation's of those "New" people who visited Bellevue during Camp Outrageous and then the 4th of July Celebration all coming up.

Lots of Luck Steve or better yet, open that new prayer room quick.

Now "Ballevue" really needs Saving


.

7:58 AM, June 17, 2010

32yrs@bbc said...

'However, Bellevue created these potential problems when they opened the fields up to outside teams. Just like they created the annual "Celebrate America" monster when they invited the whole community, then wondered why they had to close the building after they found people making out inside and climbing onto the roof and had to spend the next day cleaning cigarette butts, beer bottles, cans, and trash off the grounds.'

Yep. That's the crux of the matter.
They have opened a Pandora's Box that will not be shut. I personally believe they made the only decision they could under the circumstances though it does seem contradictory to the billboard you showed.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Bellevues Loves Memphis"

but Bans a Black Female Ballplayer


I don't think race had anything to do with it.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Somewhere between 551 and 600 comments was one of the best yet:

This is the most posts I've ever seen on a subject that didn't involve the word "Herenton".

:-D

TN Lizzie said...

Good grief, y'all.

Bellevue does something RIGHT, and we're still not happy. What is up?

Those of us who lived through the ordeal know about PW's sin, and SG's sins of omission and comission. Ok.

One rule I learned early in my marriage: While arguing, don't get historical - stay on topic.

I don't remember which link has them, but I want to go on record as saying that I totally agree with Mike Bratton's comments!

Bellevue has rules for the coaches of sports teams who play there. Bellevue has the right to love Memphis without allowing Memphis to flaunt sin on its ball fields.
Hosea had the right to love Gomer without alloting Gomer the right to bring her sexual deviance into his home.

So, ok ~ Bellevue and Hosea are being discriminate. This is not a bad thing.

We know about Hosea's unfailing love that redeemed Gomer. The story of Bellevue and the gay softball coach is still being written.

Bellevue has never been a perfect church, or she would not have let a single one of us in. Please don't be so excited to find a new post topic in the news? This event is really not news. Bellevue is just enforcing it's rules.

Pray for Jana Jacobson and those she represents. God loves her, but He does not love her sin. May many come to know Jesus through the publicity this is receiving. Hee hee - imagine Him using the Commercial Appeal to reach Memphis for Christ!

David said...

Wow when I first saw this in the CA I knew it was going to explode. It is on the front page of Foxnews.com now. What a go Stevie boy. I can’t help but find it so funny yet so sad. They could not figure out what to do with that pedophile minister for over 6 months yet this softball team never got to bat. What a witness. Talk about constantly shooting yourself in foot. I am beginning to wonder if someone really did fall off that turnip truck after all.

David Brown

New BBC Open Forum said...

I don't feel particularly strongly about this story one way or the other because, as I said, I don't think we've heard the whole story, and it does seem to be a no-win situation for the church. The bottom line is it's a private organization, and they can determine who is allowed to play and who isn't, no matter how arbitrary the rules are and how selectively they're applied. I hadn't even planned to mention it beyond the link to the article I left in a comment in the last thread, but hits on the blog have more than doubled the past three days and people were asking for a new thread. So here it is. It took me about 10 minutes to write it, including the formatting. In other words, I really don't care, but since I decided to write an article I at least wanted to educate myself about the situation to the extent possible.

I'm still trying to slog through all the CA comments, but this one is interesting. Whether it's completely true or not, I don't know. If they've invited outside (i.e. possibly non-Christian) teams to participate, it doesn't sound feasible.

Coaches in the Bellevue league are required to give prayer and a short devotion before their designated home games. There are meetings set up prior to the league play to determine who coaches can be. If the coach is not a bellevue sunday school member (not just a member to the church, normally one is not allowed to coach a bellevue team. A bellevue team is comprised of a small set number of non-members along with majority set number of bellevue members. There have been many many times where Bellevue coaches (even ordained ministers of the church) have been banned from coaching in bellevue leagues. This is not the first time a coach has been banned for various reasons...normally it is hot tempers, even profanity, with refs. I think this article does not give the proper details in what happened here. The coach is the primary spiritual leader representing the team. She was banned as a coach for her open stance. What really happened after that needs to be verified. If I know this person, she is a competitive, hot head.

Maybe this is how it was before they opened it up to outside teams. She obviously isn't a BBC Sunday School teacher or even a member of the church. It's doubtful any of her team members are members of BBC. I think it's a lot more important to consider why, if the above is true, a BBC SS teacher would ever have to be banned for his hot temper or using profanity with the refs. And whether that person was allowed to continue as a SS teacher. I do believe at least this part of the person's comment is true because I remember hearing about similar situations and just shook my head in disbelief.

(continued below)

New BBC Open Forum said...

(continued)

If the CA story is accurate, this woman had already paid the registration fee and attended at least one coaches' meeting, so it seems she was already approved to participate with her team... that is, until the church "received information" about her. It still sounds like the church might have been threatened, perhaps even from someone within the church, with unwanted publicity if they didn't jettison her. Then when they did they still received unwanted publicity.

The article states that they asked her about her sexual orientation. If the article and her TV interview are to be believed, it was never an issue and she did not volunteer the information until she was asked point blank. Not wanting to have to lie she told the truth... which put her in a no-win situation as well. Lie and play or tell the truth and get the boot.

If what we've read is all there was to the story, then I don't think it's unreasonable to ask if the church could not have handled this better. Admittedly it doesn't appear to be quite as simple to figure out as the Paul Williams situation was (few things are that simple), but what were the church's options?

They could have done exactly what they did. This has resulted in negative national publicity and the loss of any future oppportunity to minister to this woman or her teammates, and the church is now seen by many as even more unloving, uncaring, and hypocritical than before.

If, as the article implied, someone did indeed come to them with information about her and she never mentioned it during previous meetings, they could have told the informer that their policy is "don't ask, don't tell" and that it is the church's goal to minister to as many people as possible and that even if the rumor is true they aren't going to ban her unless she displays inappropriate behavior. And if the fact becomes public that a team with gay members is being allowed to play in what is no longer a closed church league, they'll tell everyone else the same thing. "We do not condone homosexual behavior, but we do not condone adultery, fornication, viewing pornography, illegal drug use, alcohol abuse, or lying either. We just want to minister to people so that they will come to Christ and be convicted of their sin." While this would have earned them criticism from some, it wouldn't have permanently shut the door in the faces of this woman, her teammates, and so many of the people now watching this fiasco.

Now, if someone had come to them with information about a coach or player being a sex offender or having had a criminal background, that would have been entirely different, and I would be the first to applaud the church for showing concern for people's safety. However, there was no indication this woman posed any type of threat to the safety of anyone. From all indications they were there to play ball, not to "make a statement."

According to the article, the church's excuse for banning her was a new rule regarding PDAs. I might find this believable if they had played a game and she or some of her players were indeed displaying inappropriate PDAs. However, they never played a game! So that excuse makes no sense. It would have made more sense to make up a new rule stating that if someone is known to be or admits he or she is living a homosexual lifestyle that person is ineligible to play. But then that would open a whole can of worms when people start asking about the adulterers, fornicators, divorcees, viewers of pornography, those with criminal backgrounds, etc. who have been allowed to coach. Not to mention the hot-tempered, ref-cussing Sunday School teachers. It would truly be a slippery slope if they did that, so they had to come up with something else. It just seems like they could have come up with something less laughable than a PDA rule.

TN Lizzie said...

I strongly suspect that Bellevue was targeted for this publicity because of a bigger agenda. Gays do not just want equality (on their terms) they want special recognition.

How foolish of mr. obama to give it to them: June is GLBT Pride Month.

Here are the last 2 paragraphs:
NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim June 2010 as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month. I call upon all Americans to observe this month by fighting prejudice and discrimination in their own lives and everywhere it exists.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-eighth day of May, in the year of our Lord two thousand ten, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-fourth.

BARACK OBAMA
___________________________________

Here is a response worth watching, from
Rick & Bubba

New BBC Open Forum said...

Well, isn't that sweet? He had time for that, but he was too busy to observe the National Day of Prayer or to go to Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day to lay wreaths on the tombs. Blech.

I'm all for EQUAL rights for everyone. I'm not for SPECIAL rights for any group. I do not believe equal rights extend to "gay marriage" which is an oxymoron since by definition, marriage is between a man and a woman, nor do I believe in "hate crimes" legislation. Murder is murder.

You may very well be correct that there was some underlying agenda which caused this particular team with this particular coach to "target" BBC. That's been in the back of my mind the whole time, but I can only go by what has been reported to date and so far I'm unaware of any evidence that was the case. I hope the truth comes out. If there was an agenda and the church was aware of it, why would they remain silent? There's just a sense of cognitive dissonance about this whole thing.

gopher said...

Steve Gaines has been pushing for acceptance of Sinners (ie Lost people) by Bellevue Baptist members where they
live, work & are educated
(LOL, but apparently not where Steve Gaines Works)



Then Steve goes downtown to fight an anti-discrimination measure at Memphis City Hall TEXT
Lota Love Here?

At which time he meets and appears on Thaddius Matthews Radio Show with this comment that there
may be Gays at Bellevue ,
but in essence he won't setting the "outing" police on them.



Steve on another occasion even said that he won't even enforce a non smoking rule on the Bellevue Campus
because that wouldn't be
what Jesus would Do
(ie WWJD) as it is more important to be a witness and light to them.


So why is it the now, all of a sudden, Bellevue Baptist is the outing Gay's?

or

Is Bellevue Baptist starting
a sin-free softball league?

"Bellevue Baptist Church is not going to play ball with sinners. News stories report it booted a team off their softball league roster once the coach admitted she's a lesbian.

Since church-sponsored sports are a viewed as a form of evangelism in action -- make friends, have fun, invite everyone to church and on to belief in Christ -- this seems an odd call.

Or course, it may be that church leaders want to ward off a threat: That church league players might discover gay players could be friends on the field, play an honest competitive game and relax drinking pop just like they do. That would, of course, "normalize" them in the eyes of others in the league and that's not what Bellevue Baptist believes.

Still, I wonder: If your church teaches that homosexuality is one of humanity's countless forms of sin, why is it the only one that gets you kicked off the diamond? Is the church screening for all kinds of other behaviors on their vice list? Who is good enough to play ball at Bellevue and how does the church know?"



Will they now be watching out next? Smoking, Drug Usage, Body Tattoos, Swearing, Lusting, or what ever Steve and his Team will decide next.

.

Movin on said...

As more than one person has pointed out, as long as the team abides by the rules of the league, why does one team of sinners get booted out when there are most likely others that will not?

Does a team of unsaved, moral people who don't "cuss, drink, smoke or chew or go with girls that do" get to play while a team with some "deviants" on it does not? Why is one sin judged to be worse than another?

I think the church just blew a big-time chance to show members of that team what it would mean to "love the sinner, but not approve of the sin". Now they will simply look on those "Bellevue loves Memphis" signs as nothing more than hypocrisy or selectively applied.

gopher said...

Someone found this on the Bellevue Web Site (while it is still there = no link here) for Volleyball as Softball registration is already over:

"The competitive league is OPEN to any team in the Memphis Area and is NOT limited to Bellevue Baptist Church Members."

Does the word "ANY" just scream at you?

Phillipians4:13 said...

Praise the Lord for Bellevue’s stand!

As one person put it – c’mon ya’ll? Why are you picking this thing apart? No-matter how you feel about Bellevue this was a scripturally correct and amazingly courageous stand to take – especially in today’s political climate. How can any Christian fault that?

Many (myself included) don't agree with how BBC handled things over the last 5 years. Many still don’t like most things done at Bellevue today. My fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, I beg you to not let those things cloud your thoughts and mind on this issue. It is my hope that all of us that are Christians and believe in the in-errancy of the Bible, understand that this decision was the right thing to do. Allowing openly gay coaches or team members to play in a Bellevue sponsored league implies acceptance of that lifestyle. The Bible is very clear on how God views the homosexual lifestyle - regardless of what the media, Hollywood or the liberal left say. Again, regardless of what many think about Bellevue - these rules are not just church rules, but God's rules. Bellevue has always strived to make the Bible pre-eminent when creating any of its policies and I pray that never changes. I’m not saying BBC is a perfect church, like you and me it’s not even close, but in this the church has taken a stand for the Word of God – we should be thankful for her boldness.

Many will still say well what about the member that is an alcoholic, adulterer, child molester, drug abuser, etc.? How can they serve? Well the short answer is they cannot. When those issues are brought to light, the person is removed from that leadership position. I have seen this happen more than once. It's not public (for the most part), but it is done. The person is offered spiritual counseling, and may possibly be restored to their prior position. But the bottom line is if someone continues to purposefully practice sinful behavior they must get that right with God first before they can serve in any type of leadership position (coach, SS teacher, lay leader, EE leader, etc). This has been Bellevue's policy for years and years - it's not something new. PW aside, (Huge mistake made here and I believe they know it) as I understand things BBC has done a pretty consistent job of dealing with this type of purposeful sin within the leadership (staff and lay positions).

On this issue of not allowing an openly homosexual coach to play in BBC’s church sponsored league, I boldly stand with Bellevue because Bellevue stands by the Word of God; I hope you stand with Bellevue too.

mirele said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
New BBC Open Forum said...

"Many will still say well what about the member that is an alcoholic, adulterer, child molester, drug abuser, etc.? How can they serve? Well the short answer is they cannot. When those issues are brought to light, the person is removed from that leadership position."

If you truly believe that policy is applied across the board without prejudice, I have some swampland I'll sell you cheap. Yes, they have undoubtedly quietly removed people from "leadership" roles, but they've allowed those with "issues" to stay, too.

I would love to name names and give details, but since I was not directly involved and the people who were have refused to speak out publicly, I cannot. One in particular is a member of a prominent BBC family that no one up there will touch. Why, I've never known. Perhaps they know where the bodies are buried. (That's a saying, folks. I'm not implying there are corpses buried anywhere.)

Remember the 15-year-old girl who was handcuffed and cussed out by a BBC rent-a-cop during a Sunday night church service? It was reportedly because of the behavior of the above-mentioned person that she was acquainted with the security guards in the first place. That guy was fired from the MPD for similar conduct, yet the last I heard he's still working in security at BBC and even drove a busload of youth on an out-of-state choir trip last year. Here are links to the stories about the MPD incident. The officer is not mentioned by name in the first article. Drewry was his partner. He is named in the second article.

August 25, 2007

March 6, 2008

This is but one example and surely only the tip of the iceberg, but unless or until the people directly involved in these incidents speak out publicly, nothing is going to change. In at least two of these cases the police should have been involved. At BBC, as in most organizations where power and money talk, the rules are applied selectively. Do not be so naive.

As for allowing an "openly" homosexual coach to play, based solely upon what's been reported in the media (which is all I know), she was not "open" until "someone" tipped off the church and they confronted her. If what we've read is accurate, she was put in the no-win situation of having to lie or tell the truth. If "someone" had kept his mouth shut and the team had participated as any other team, it's unlikely we would be reading about this in the national news today.

By the way, I wonder if BBC refunded the team's $350? According to the last news report I saw on Channel 24, they had not responded to the team's request for a refund. They're not asking to play nor asking for an apology. They simply want their money back. I would think BBC would have immediately refunded their money. After all, didn't SG state that he wouldn't want people to give gambling or lottery winnings to the church? So why would he want to keep money from a homosexual coach and her team? I would think that money would be considered tainted! At least if they gave her a receipt and she doesn't get her money back, maybe she can write it off on her taxes as a charitable contribution.

Junkster said...

To me, it's as simple as this: BBC opened up the league to non-Christians, and they should not expect non-Christians to act like Christians.

If BBC wants to have a league composed of only people who believe and live according to the dictates of the Bible, that is their right, and there would be nothing to criticize. But as soon as they decided to allow teams not affiliated with BBC or any other church to participate in the league, they are wrong to start placing moral demands on the non-Christian team members.

The Bible could not be more clear on this matter. See 1 Cor 5:9-13:

I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside.

gopher said...

Phillipians4:13 said...
"My fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, I beg you to not let those things cloud your thoughts and mind on this issue."

If the body at Bellevue Baptist Church, under the guidance and leadership of Dr. Steve Gaines can't show love to former Bellevue members, they surly can't love on Non Bellevue members either. The "clouds" are over Bellevue, not in our minds.

With all the effort that Steve Gaines has put into getting God to come to Church, a Lesbian shows up and now this is how she is being treated, even when being invited?

So if the members and leadership can't reign in an Unbridled Coach & his Team. don't expect us to start throwing stones at this softball player.

1 Peter 4:17

.

MOM4 said...

There is a funny thing about the "deviant" lifestyle that is being discussed here. People say that just because they are "different" does not mean they will be promoting their lifestyle on the general population, but I beg to differ! On two seperate occassions thru the years, I have had contact with lesbian women that I tried to just be polite, not friendly, just respectfully polite to. Both times I have been accosted. The first time, after several work related meetings at my employers place of business, I began getting "lingering leg bumps" under the table, which totally rattled me to the core to say the least. Trying to avoid the person in the future only led to her being more agressive in her physical contact attempts, hands on my arm, or her arm around my shoulder, all of which I rebuffed. I eventually had the opportunity to moved to a different department and I jumped at the chance, which was the ONLY way I had to remove myself from that situation because if I said anything, I would have been labeled a "homophobe" by my employer, a worldwide corportation that acknowledges "partners" instead of "marriages". The second time, years later,was in Bartlett. I went to a dentist who was on my insurance. I should have known that there was something different when I went in and the female receptionist was outfitted in masculine attire, but being basically naive on the ways of the lesbian lifestyle, I did not pick up on it until about the 3rd visit, when I ended up in the dental chair with the hygenist's boob in my ear. I had to ask her to back off because she was in my personal space, something I had never had to do at any other dentist office. I know they have to get up close and personal to work in your mouth, but never in my many years have I ever had someone THAT close. Needless to say, I was shaken by the experience but went back again for my next checkup and lo and behold, it happened again with another hygenist. This time she kept laying her hand on my chest every time she paused in her work. AGAIN, I had to ask her to back off. AT that point, I changed dentists. Call me stupid if you wish, but I just could not believe ANYONE could be so blatantly agressive, knowing I was married to a man, and had children. I am aware of the much more aggressive sexual molestation of many, even some here on the blog, but I have never experienced anything so demeaning and shocking than these events in my life. So to say that they are there "just to play ball" don't cut it with me. They are there to make a point, and to force their lifestyle on others who are unsuspecting and innocent, as I was. No one will EVER change my mind about it either.
I just wondered what Bellevue was thinking when they opened up the facility to these types of people? If they were interested in becoming "churched" as Bellevue calls it, why didn't they go to services, why did they just sign up to play ball? Because, they are not looking for anything deeper in their lives, they are looking to score, one way or the other!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Wow. I can see how those experiences would strongly influence your opinion. I've never had a woman so much as look at me that way (to my knowledge) and certainly not touch me like that. A number of years ago I went to a female doctor whom when I met I sort of suspected might be gay, and a couple of her staff members also seemed as if they might be. It wasn't their appearance but the way they interacted with each other that just seemed odd. She was never in any way inappropriate around me, and I can say with no uncertainty that if she had been she would have received a well-placed fist or foot to the most accessible part of her anatomy at that moment.

I have, however, had two male doctors and a couple other men try similar things. The first couple of times it caught me totally off guard, and once I even thought at the time it was inadvertent, but after hearing a friend's similar experience a few months ago, I now believe it was no accident. However, something like that will never happen again without a swift and decisive response!

When I was a teen I was in a youth group (non-church music group) which was directed by a lesbian woman. In just the year or so I was in it, she broke up the marriages of at least two sets of parents of my peers, so these things do happen. (As one of the fathers later said, it's bad enough when your wife leaves you for another man, but when she leaves you for a woman, that's a really low blow!) However, I think these types of things probably happen about equally in all segments of the population.

My mother worked in the administration office of a BAPTIST college while my dad was a student there. The stories she has told! She was married at the time (not that that should have made any difference), and she said you never wanted to be alone with a couple of the male administrators or even in the same room with one of them without a planned escape route because they would be all over you. It didn't matter if other people were in the room. They'd just find a way to discreetly pinch you or, like your female associate, do something under the table.

We still don't know all the facts in this case. Was there some bigger agenda? Were they trying to make it into a "test case"? We don't know. Or did they, as they stated, simply want more opportunities to play softball? The church's silence only leaves people to speculate.

fogmachine said...

The whole story is sad because the "Christian Church" all over the world gets a black eye once again because we have another church making ridiculous decisions.

The first ridiculous decision was for Bellevue to spend millions to build and maintain ball fields and pay salaries for the huge staff it takes to maintain the program.

It's a weak argument to say ball fields are a major aspect of people getting saved. For anyone that has played on those fields over the years, they have seen all kinds of deviant behavior from members and nonmembers alike. Sharing Christ has not been the #1 emphasis I've experience out there.
In fact, I'm not so sure more harm than good is done since many members and coaches have been told they can't play any more because of their behavior.

The second ridiculous decision was to invite the world of Memphis into the program and then expect nothing but clean cut Christian acting folks to show up.

The third ridiculous decision as a result of #1 and #2 was to kick this lesbian player/coach/team off the scheduled list of teams.

I am 100% against homosexuality but to invite the world into their system and then tell them to leave is a terrible witness to the world.

The most ridiculous decision Bellevue has made in the past 5 years was to call Steve Gaines as pastor.

Remember, it was Steve Gaines who accepted a homosexual being on staff. Some may have called him a pedophile, but his actions were against a little boy. In my book, the man acted in a homosexual manner.

It was Steve Gaines that accepted it as being "under the blood". Only after the news media found out, Steve Gaines was forced to remove this man from his staff.

It's so easy for the world to point their finger at the "church" and say hypocrite. I for one, wish Bellevue had never asked for outside teams to play but then again, I guess there wouldn't have been enough teams to play since the membership has dropped off so much.

It appears more and more that Bellevue has no leadership. It reminds me of a ship without a rudder.

Maybe Bellevue will go to the "dont ask - dont tell" policy.

Good grief. Just when you think you've seen it all, something else pops up.

gopher said...

Steve Gaines answer to why he would not allow Jana Jacobson to coach or play in Bellevue Baptist Church softball league.

Coaching is a leadership position?
(to an outside invited team? Where were those qualifications listed?)
and leadership positions carry a higher standard? (except for Steve's Staff like Paul Williams, that was ok until it was made public and then Steve had to do something)

So Bellevue opens it up to the world just so they can tell them that they are deviants, that is how Steve Gaines now defines
Bellevue Loves Memphis

So it all depends on the meaning of the word 'Love' is...?

.

Junkster said...

When Paul was listing spiritual gifts for leadership and mutual edification in the body of Christ, I guess he forgot to mention the gift of softball-coaching. Or maybe that's in the Greek somewhere and our translations just missed it.

gopher said...

Junkster said...

"When Paul was listing spiritual gifts for leadership and mutual edification in the body of Christ, I guess he forgot to mention the gift of softball-coaching. Or maybe that's in the Greek somewhere and our translations just missed it."


LOL, Gotta Love IT


And to think that God had destroyed those softball fields, and if they hadn't been fixed this winter this wouldn't even be a issue.

Kinda like a Sodom and Gomorrah in reverse...

.

32yrs@bbc said...

Listened to SG's explanation to the church as to the action BBC took. Have to give credit where credit is due - he did a very good job and I agree with him completely.

However, this all could have been avoided if more wisdom had been exercised. It is a known fact (and I may get some flack here) that there are lesbians on women's softball teams. Everyone I know who is involved in sports at any level knows this reality. When the church opened the door to the community, they should have known they would have to deal with it.
Christians are to walk wisely in this world culture we live in. You can't be naive, thinking God will just somehow take care of it. The unsaved world doesn't understand the concept of loving the soul of the sinner but hating the sin that will ultimately destroy them spiritually, and sometimes physically.

New BBC Open Forum said...

It is a known fact (and I may get some flack here) that there are lesbians on women's softball teams. Everyone I know who is involved in sports at any level knows this reality.

There are homosexuals involved in sports, but whether in greater percentages than the heterosexual population does not seem to be a given.

An example of stereotyping...

When the church opened the door to the community, they should have known they would have to deal with it.

I agree.

Christians are to walk wisely in this world culture we live in. You can't be naive, thinking God will just somehow take care of it. The unsaved world doesn't understand the concept of loving the soul of the sinner but hating the sin that will ultimately destroy them spiritually, and sometimes physically.

I agree with this, too. However, I do not believe the way the church mishandled this whole situation is in any way showing "love" towards anyone. The world does not see "love" here. They see hypocrisy.

32yrs@bbc said...

The world does not see "love" here. They see hypocrisy.

2:12 PM, June 24, 2010

He made it clear that the reason she was being told she could not coach was because she was in a leadership position. At least that's what I understood. They did not ban the team because there may have been other lesbians as players - just her as a coach. (Unless I misunderstood altogether.) But, again, it all could have been avoided in the first place. And, yes, I can see how she would think it hypocritical. The main thing is the main thing...none of this had to happen which boils down to weak leadership.

Reality is not stereotyping. From the high school level on, there are many lesbians on women's competitive softball teams. It is a fact. I have friends whose daughters play competitive ball, and also family members. They all have had to deal with it at some point and it's very disconcerting. The young women love the sport and yet they do not like having to be in that atmosphere. (Not always, of course, but too many times it surfaces.) And, yes, I know there is the same sin in all sports among both men and women, but women's softball is what we are dealing with here.:-)

gopher said...

32yrs@bbc said...

"Listened to SG's explanation to the church as to the action BBC took. Have to give credit where credit is due - he did a very good job and I agree with him completely."

"He made it clear that the reason she was being told she could not coach was because she was in a leadership position."

And you really believe him?

"Ted Haggard ranted and railed against gays, while privately living a different life, ....for at least three years."

Here's David Coombs and Steve Gaines laughing it up trying to prove they are
manly

I'd be careful who you follow....

.

New BBC Open Forum said...

What I don't understand about the "leadership" excuse is how anyone would ever logically expect to open the sports leagues to "the world" with the expectation that the world's coaches would meet the standards Bellevue has set for those in "leadership" positions. How can someone who might not even claim to be a Christian be considered for a "leadership" position? It doesn't compute.

"He made it clear that the reason she was being told she could not coach was because she was in a leadership position."

That was the story Sunday. I'm not sure they made that clear at all before then. According to the first article, "During the meeting, Jacobson said another rule of 'no public displays of affection' was added. Beal also told her they had received information about her lifestyle." No mention of "leadership" qualifications then.

Yet Gaines said it's about qualifications for leadership. There was no further mention of "public displays of affection." So which is it? Jacobson has told her side of the story.

From the article:

Jim Barnwell, Bellevue's director of communications, said Tuesday afternoon the church has "no plans to comment on (Jacobson's story) at this time."

Bellevue was provided an outline of Jacobson's account of meetings with church officials. Barnwell also was asked whether the church's stance regarding homosexuality was part of the decision, if its account of the episode differed from Jacobson's and whether the player's acknowledgment played a part in the team not playing in Bellevue's league.


Why won't the church answer the reporter's questions and get their story straight (no pun intended). Their answers to the first and last questions seem obvious, but I'd like to know if the church's account of what happened and what was said differs from Jacobson's.

Junkster said...

The claim that a coach of a ball team is a church leadership position is simply absurd.

I suppose someone might get away with such a lame excuse if every team was formed by the church and all the coaches were members of the church. (Even then, I wouldn't buy it, but I wouldn't quibble with those who did.) But once the league was opened to non-church teams, BBC, by biblical standards, is wrong to have any expectation of Christian behavior from non-Christians.

Of course BBC has the right to say who can and who can't participate in their league, for whatever reasons make sense to those who make the rules. But having a right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do. This entire incident demonstrates poor discernment, poor judgment, and poor leadership from SG on down.

But that shouldn't surprise anyone.

Junkster said...

More commentary on this topic at BaptistLife.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I particularly liked Ed Thompson's comment:

I think if Bellevue is going to open their league to outside teams, then as long as that team behaves by the stipulated rules, there is no logical justification for tossing one team out and letting others stay, regardless if those teams have homosexual players. If the same-sex folks start engaging in any offensive actions, then, fine, toss them out...but I would expect the same of the "normal sinners" if they curse or chew tobacco or whip out a can of brewski.

Honestly, I think the idea of such an outreach is good and it might have well opened some dialogue that might have very well displayed what it means to "love the sinner, but not approve of the sin". However, knowing the turmoil that Gaines has been through at Bellevue, he and/or the administration might be a bit gun-shy of anything that might cause any more controversy.

There's been a big push over the last couple of years with a "Bellevue loves Memphis" theme and organizing activities that get members out into the community doing service projects. I fear this incident will destroy whatever goodwill has been established with that work. I would have thought someone would have been able to foresee this potential issue arise if they opened the league up to non-Bellevue teams and know if they refused inclusion in the league that it would create an uproar in this day and age. To me it is a display of the lack of wisdom in leadership that caused many to leave the church some time back, but that is just my personal opinion and observation of this incident from what I've read in the one article. My conclusion may be off base and there may be more to the story than what's in the article.


Very logical, reasoned response based upon what we know so far.

New BBC Open Forum said...

The comment count on the two CA articles has exceeded 2200, so I've not read many pages, but several times I saw someone ask the question, "What would Jesus do?" I'd like to ask what you would do. We know Jesus said to the woman who'd committed adultery, "Go and sin no more." What I'm asking is what do you think Jesus would DO?

To begin with I doubt Jesus would have built a palatial building, erected 150-foot crosses, and formed a softball league. But since those things exist, what would Jesus do? Any thoughts?

gopher said...

I believe it's called Ichabod , as it is being taught in the Bellevue College Ministry


When you review this excerpt captured 5 years ago , you get a sense of the disdain that Steve Gaines had toward Bellevue Baptist Church then, and you can see that even now he has no regard for the church or its reputation.

.

gopher said...

WOW , Steve Gaines, Playing the Persecution card..

The Treasure in Trials
Posted by Steve Gaines • June 24, 2010

Maybe you’re going through a difficult time, and you’re wondering why God has allowed these things to happen to you. Some people have a theology that says, “If you just love God enough, you’ll never be sick. You’ll never have a need. You’ll never go through any problems in life.” When problems do come, their faith seems to be dashed because their theology was not based on the Word of God.

Trials are part of God’s plan for our lives. James 1:1-4 says, “Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect (or maturing) result, so that you may be perfect (or mature) and complete, lacking in nothing.”

Trials give us the opportunity to display joy. Trials are opportunities to display the fruit of the Spirit, which includes joy. Do you know Jesus? Is the joy of the Lord your strength? Do you have the joy of His salvation in your life? Christians can rejoice in the midst of trials. We don’t fear anything in life, and we don’t fear anything in death!

Trials give us the opportunity to develop endurance. The great Italian “theologian” Rocky Balboa once said, “It’s not how hard you can hit that makes you a winner, but how hard you can get hit, get up, and keep on going.” Aren’t you grateful that when the devil and sin gave Jesus their best blow, He came out of that grave? He took their best shot, and He kept on going!

Trials give us the opportunity to display maturity. Our flesh doesn’t like to struggle, but if we never go through struggles, we will never grow to be what God wants us to be. We would rather be comfortable, but God didn’t put us on this earth just to have an easy life. Maturing comes through trials.

Whether as an individual, a family, or a church, when believers go through trials together, they come out stronger. You can be sure that God will use the most difficult times in your life to make you a better Christian and to bring glory to His name. That’s the blessing, and that’s the treasure in trials.


.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Okay, the first paragraph is good and rightly refutes the "prosperity" preaching that's popular today.

As for trials always being God's "plan," I beg to differ. Sometimes trials come about from our own wrong actions or disobedience to God. It's not God causing our trials; sometimes it's we who are our own worst enemies.

And as for trials giving us the opportunity to display joy, I invite people to watch 10 minutes of one of Steve Gaines' sermons with the sound muted. Does he look like someone who is displaying joy?

I'll repeat what I've said before. As Christians in the U.S., the vast majority of us have NO idea what REAL persecution is. That song is getting old.

maybejustmaybe said...

My mother used to say that the devil gets a lot of blame for things in our lives that he has absolutely nothing to do with. I've always thought that lends a reasonable sense of balance to things.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Your mother is/was a wise woman.

Lydia said...

Junster makes some good points and I will add that I am flummoxed as to why the Body of Christ has softball teams.

mirele,

As a Muslim, Can you tell us what would the punishment be for homosexuals in Islamic country's?

Elisabeth said...

Quite a few lesbians where I work. They mind their own business and do their job like the rest of us.

I think that if a lesbian coach of a softball team wanted her team to play at Bellevue, they should have let the team play as long as the coach and team behaved themselves. Who knows, they might have learned something?

I'm not sure how just allowing them to play would have said that Bellevue approves of homosexuality in any way, and I'm not sure it was "spiritual" for them to ban them. But then, I'm not from the Bible Belt, either. What can be considered as condoning of homosexuality vs. just not being down an outright hateful of homosexuals are different in different cultures. It's unfortunate this went national, because someone from the north or west might view this situation in a different light than someone from the Bible Belt would.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Welcome newcomers. Please make your profile visible as per the instructions on the front page. Thanks!

Junkster said...

Lydia said...
I am flummoxed as to why the Body of Christ has softball teams.


The body of Christ doesn't. But clubs do. :)

Lydia said...

Lydia said...
I am flummoxed as to why the Body of Christ has softball teams.

The body of Christ doesn't. But clubs do. :)

2:59 PM, June 27, 2010

Q.E.D

32yrs@bbc said...

I'd be careful who you follow....

.

11:34 PM, June 24, 2010

Trust me - I do not follow him. I agree that, like so many other things under his leadership, this was handled poorly. Just one more thing to add to his list of blunders. The pity is that this woman will now be even more resistant to the Gospel message.

32yrs@bbc said...

When you review this excerpt captured 5 years ago , you get a sense of the disdain that Steve Gaines had toward Bellevue Baptist Church then, and you can see that even now he has no regard for the church or its reputation.

.

9:54 PM, June 25, 2010

Thanks for posting this. People too soon forget the history of the past 5 years. The erosion began with the attitude of his dislike for Bellevue as it was. He came to change it - to tear it down and remake it into his image of what it should be.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Review of the entire video

gopher said...

Did anyone notice the new choir wear this morning (or whatever you want to call it)?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Did they get the new choir robes mentioned in the Vision 2010 plan? (page 13) What do they look like?

gopher said...

Makes the women look .... how do you say it? .....most unflattering .....almost like PJ's.....

Women's Pic

Not Fair, as the "Men In Black" get to hide all their flaws...

Men's Pic


Now who was responsible for this fiasco?

I guess Steve's still at it, as

32yrs@bbc said...

"He came to change it - to tear it down and remake it into his image of what it should be."


Maybe this is to drive people to the empty 11:11 service without the Choir.......but then they'd have to put up with .....

.

32yrs@bbc said...

Now who was responsible for this fiasco?

The new choir look is the latest gimmick amongst many SBC churches.
The outfits are brought out for special occasions. SG was conveniently absent yesterday.
Seems to be his pattern when they try anything new.

My opinion is the ladies' shirts are gaudy and the men look like gangsters from the Mafia.

gopher said...

iii) Enhance the Appearance of the Choir
(1) Purchase new choir robes that will maintain visual unity, but without the more traditional look of the off-white robes currently in use.

Choir Robes
? ? ?

Visual Unity? ? ? ?


"Visual unity is one of the most important aspects of well-developed art and is planned by the artist.

Unity provides the cohesive quality that makes an artwork feel complete and finished.

When all the elements in a work look as though they belong together, the artist has achieved unity."

"How to achieve it

* Similarity: Repeating colors, shapes, values, textures, or lines creates a visual relationship between elements, called correspondence."

,

32yrs@bbc said...

"The Memphis Commercial Appeal this AM has a front page story about Adrian Rogers' Bellevue church"

This quote from Baptist Life ie.
"Adrian Rogers' Bellevue church" must stick in the craw of some after SG and company have worked so tirelessly to wipe out that legacy.

MOM4 said...

I'm sorry. Did I step into an episode of "GLEE" for the AARP club?
That is the most ill-fitting, unflattering Show Choir I have EVER seen!

The Movie Don said...

I can't seem to find this story. Could you put up a link?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Don,

The quote by "32yrs" came from this discussion on the BapitstLife forum from week before last.

The two articles of interest are linked on the front page of the blog in the current post.

The front page of today's Commercial Appeal featured First Assembly of God's "Celebrate America" program last night.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"My opinion is the ladies' shirts are gaudy and the men look like gangsters from the Mafia."

That was my second thought (about the men's Mafia look). My first thought was "Mormon Tabernacle Choir gone wild." The women resemble Easter eggs, and that fabric is way too shiny and clingy, especially on more mature figures, not to mention they look hot (in the non-breathable, sweat-inducing, polyester sense of the word).

This is only my opinion, but if they wanted to ditch the choir robes in favor of something like this, why not use one solid, dark (slimming) color for all the women, say a burgundy to complement the carpet, in a much less shiny or clingy fabric? That would have been a lot more flattering on everyone and certainly been more "unifying." For example, the sparkly black formals they sometimes wear look very nice, as did the red polo shirts on everyone for a more casual look that they wore for the now-defunct "Celebrate America" a few years ago.

They could have chosen matching ties for the men if they still wanted to go with black shirts, so at least they wouldn't look like a large amorphous black blob. I can't imagine who would think this particular look on the women is flattering. There's a reason choirs have historically worn choir robes, and this illustrates it perfectly.

What were the women wearing on the bottom? Black skirts? Slacks? It was something black, but I couldn't tell what.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Back on topic (not that we ever stay on topic for long) and something new...

Both these comments were left on the first CA article by the same person. The first one is on this same topic and seems like a reasoned response:

kverg writes:

This is just what any normal person would expect when you open up what was previously a restricted “ministry” focused activity to the general world at large. I am not saying that the general world at large does not need to be exposed to the ministry of the church, I AM saying that there are specific guidelines that the church, as the body of Christ, needs to adhere to in order to remain above reproach in situations such as this. The leadership of Bellevue has opened the door for this to happen and should be held accountable for doing so. This decision was made without regard to the prayerful considerations and determinations such as were made by the previous pastor, Dr. Adrian Rogers. Dr. Rogers was very careful not to put the reputation of the church at risk. In doing so, he was building upon the foundations set forth by the Scriptures given to us as a guide to live by. I am sorry that the church has sunk to the level of having to defend herself on the front page of the Commercial Appeal, but this is not the first time they have had to spin the media for damage control. Dr. Rogers would roll over in his grave (if he were there) to see what has become of his legacy. This legacy was built on his willingness to do what the Lord gave him to do, not what he though was the right thing to do. Herego the differences in leadership and the results of worldly decisions vs. Godly decisions. My how far Bellevue has fallen!

But this is the one that caught my attention:

kverg writes:

in response to tiredmem:

(quote from "tiredmem"): Nicely written. Maybe the senior staff should have a meeting to discuss its message and how to best articulate it. 1500 comments in 2 weeks something is wrong.

kverg: Unfortunately, the leadership of Dr. Rogers' remaining ministry, Love Worth Finding, has seen fit to participate in likeminded worldly governance in placing a woman who has been divorced twice in the leadership role once held by Dr. Rogers himself. I am shocked and dismayed if this has been approved and condoned by the Rogers family and hopefully they will overturn this decision made by the Board of Directors. It would be a direct act of disobedience to God's Word to allow this to stand and would open the door for yet another legacy to fall. Heaven help us all if it does!

Note there is no longer any connection between Bellevue and LWF, so anything LWF does is not related to BBC, but does anyone know what this is all about?

Been Redeemed said...

Sad, but unfortunalely very true. Bill Skelton is cleaning out Dr. Roger's office so this new President can have his office. I don't know why Mr. Skelton thinks he has the right to take Dr. Roger's office when there should be plenty of empty offices after all the laying off he did last year. This new prez is apparently his go-to-gal, and she is on her 3rd marriage. I just heard about it recently and wondered why no one had mentioned anything about it here. I figured it was just another part of the darkness that people were getting used to seeing these days and it wasn't worth mentioning or somebody would have pitched a fit about it before now.
I guess nothing surprises me any more.

mirele said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
32yrs@bbc said...

MOM4 said...
I'm sorry. Did I step into an episode of "GLEE" for the AARP club?
That is the most ill-fitting, unflattering Show Choir I have EVER seen!

9:36 AM, June 28, 2010

MOM4 this comment gave me my laugh for the day. You nailed it!:-)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Bill Skelton is taking over Dr. Rogers' old office? Wow. That's like... a shrine! It has remained under lock and key, exactly as he left it the last time he walked out almost 5 years ago. I bet there are some supporters and workers there who will not be happy about this development at all. I hope they at least gave Mrs. Rogers the chance to get everything out as there were a lot of his personal effects in there.

So who is this woman they're bringing in? I hope the objections are over the fact that she's twice-divorced and on her third marriage (because of the appearance) or perhaps not qualified for some other reason, not simply the fact that she's a woman. It was hard to tell from "kverg's" comment if that was the case.

"Kverg" wondered if the Rogers family would put a halt to these plans, but from what I understand, the Rogers family doesn't have any hand left in LWF except that Mrs. Rogers is still on the BOD. I don't know how much, if any, support or influence she still has there.

Didn't Dr. Rogers put the copyright and ownership of his sermons and other work under the umbrella of the LWF corporation? If that's the case, I'm not sure that was a very wise business decision. Seems I read something about Steve Rogers and the ARPTI getting into some copyright issues with LWF when they tried to market some of his work.

On a related note, has anyone seen the new Adrian Rogers study Bible? I recall a big advertising campaign before it was released and thought it could be a profitable thing for the organization, but I've not heard anything else about it. Is it a KJV study Bible or a translation? I couldn't tell from the pre-release ad. Did they get a lot of orders? I figured we'd begin seeing them on eBay, but there are none listed right now.

32yrs@bbc said...

"On a related note, has anyone seen the new Adrian Rogers study Bible?"

Yes, I have it and know many who have purchased one. Excellent study Bible in the NKJ. Understand they sold many, even had back orders, when it first was published. Don't know how well it's doing now. Sad about what's happening at LWF, if true. I would think Kverg was concerned about the woman being on her third marriage rather than the fact she was a woman.

New BBC Open Forum said...

mirele said...

Lydia,

Is there a particular reason why you're stalking me? I posted my one statement over a week ago.

You can always go to my blog and leave comments.


mirele,

I'm afraid I'm missing something here. I fail to see how Lydia asking you one simple question could possibly be considered "stalking." Perhaps she just saw your comment. Lydia has posted comments here for over 3 years. You are new here, so if anyone is "stalking" anyone, it is you. (I don't believe anyone is "stalking" anyone, just making a point.) If you don't want to answer Lydia's question or add to the discussion without accusing someone of "stalking," I'm going to have to ask you to take it elsewhere.

Please understand that most of us here believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. Period. Denying the idea of "homosexual marriage" is not denying anyone their basic human rights, the equal rights to which all people are entitled. You apparently do not agree with that view and that's certainly your privilege, both to believe what you want and to express those views, but you're not going to find much sympathy here.

Regardless of our views about special rights for certain groups of people, I think most of us agree this whole thing with Bellevue and Jana Jacobson was handled poorly.

johnthebaptist said...

NBBC OF said:
On a related note, has anyone seen the new Adrian Rogers study Bible? I recall a big advertising campaign before it was released and thought it could be a profitable thing for the organization, but I've not heard anything else about it. Is it a KJV study Bible or a translation? I couldn't tell from the pre-release ad. Did they get a lot of orders? I figured we'd begin seeing them on eBay, but there are none listed right now.
------------------
I bought one of these bibles and was disappointed. It is the NKJV which is ok, but it is cheaply made. It is bonded leather (not really leather anything) and the paper that was used for the pages is cheap. Sort of like the pages in the econo bible section at Lifeway. I prefer the words of Jesus in red but don't get that in this bible. It has different sayings of Dr. Rogers throughout the bible but I am not sure they are actually Dr Rogers words or someone stating what Dr. Rogers had said about the subject. Does that make sense?

Got a couple of free CD sets about the bible along with the Bible. Disappointed there too. It seems someone gathered some of Dr. Rogers messages about the bible and put them on 1 cd. Sounds good but they are almost the exact same sermons, including illustrations. After about the 3rd sermon, I can almost quote the rest of the messages. For almost $80 bucks, I would have thought the bible would have been made better & produced with better materials. It was not. I still use it but it could have or more importatantly, should have been made nicer, expecially for the price.

I only use ebay for old or antique bibles. I wouldn't think this bible would be on ebay....yet.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"What were the women wearing on the bottom? Black skirts? Slacks? It was something black, but I couldn't tell what."

Someone has informed me they were wearing "tulip pants." Excuse my fashion ignorance, but what the heck are "tulip pants"?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Oh, you'd be surprised at what you can find on eBay. A few years ago I was looking for a Charles Stanley study Bible for a gift. The basic version in BBC's bookstore and elsewhere was about $80. I found a brand new, leather-bound, still-in-the-box, "deluxe" version on eBay for $31 with free shipping.

johnthebaptist said...

Well maybe I should have waiting and tried to find one on ebay. At least I wouldn't be as disappointed with my purchase @ $31.00 as I am at $80.00.

I have bought many things over the years at ebay but never thought to look for new bibles there. I guess I am getting older quicker than I though. : )

Lydia said...

Hi Mirele,

We sure do jump to conclusions, don't we? As BBC said, I have been reading and commenting here on and off for about 3 years.

I was certainly surprised to see you commenting here about about your view of Christians and homosexuality considering you are now Muslim. So, I asked the question. No problem if you are uncomfortable answering it.

MOM4 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
32yrs@bbc said...

About "tulip pants" - they are the long, flowing, full at the bottom pants. At least that's the description someone gave me when I too couldn't figure it out.

About the Legacy Bible. I did not pay $80 for mine. I am very satisfied. You have to remember that in purchasing the Bible, you are also funding LWF ministry so it is a two-fold thing. I do not consider mine cheaply made at all.
I find the devotionals and "Adrianisms" throughout the Bible enhance my study of God's Word.

johnthebaptist said...

MOM4 said:

Why were you disappointed?

Please see my 3:04pm comment. That will explain it.

johnthebaptist said...

I understand that the money supports LWF which I support anyway. I was just saying that it was cheaply made compared to other bibles at the same price point.

Compare this bible to the leather, ultra-thin bible (not a study bible) I use, that I bought @ Mid-America in 1991, the quality doesn't come close. I didn't pay $80 for the one I use either.

All the extras in this study bible will help your study, no doubt.

I guess I should have paid the $1,000 (which I would have never paid)for the leather bound one. : )

New BBC Open Forum said...

$1000? What kind of leather did they use?

johnthebaptist said...

Well, I don't know what kind of leather that is but for $1,000 bucks, a member of the Rogers family should be available to read it to me. : )

See below:

The Signature Series is crafted from some of the finest leather, used for many ancient Jewish scrolls. Bill Skelton and Joyce Rogers will personally sign each of the 1,000 copies. Plus, calligraphy personalization will also be available with your name or the name of the recipient that you choose.
Your donation of $1,000 or more for this limited edition Signature Series Bible will ensure a copy of this treasure ─ to keep for yourself or to give to a family member or friend.

WishIhadknown said...

Sad about what is happening at LWF but with the LWF Board permeated by SG supporters I’m amazed it has taken this long. Will they use leather when they redecorate? I just hope they do not start incorporating SG into their organization.

The new choir outfits…too funny for words.

WishIhadknown said...

SG and persecution; now there’s a laugh. Maybe his buddies at the Country Club will give him a sympathetic shoulder to cry on.

WishIhadknown said...

On the original topic, my thoughts were best expressed by Fogmachine’s comments, 5:30 PM, June 19, 2010. The only thing I might add is that I believe twenty years from now virtually all of the SBC churches will accept homosexuality as a legitimate alternate lifestyle and SG and his followers will be criticizing those who do not just as they attack those of us who think SG needs to be accountable to the members (past and present) for his actions.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"The Signature Series is crafted from some of the finest leather, used for many ancient Jewish scrolls."

Old kosher leather...

Junkster said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
Excuse my fashion ignorance, but what the heck are "tulip pants"?


Are those anything like Calvinist capris?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Well, junk, I would say yes, but remember this is Bellevue. No T.U.L.I.P.s allowed!

I'd never heard of "tulip pants." However, from the description, they sound like something that went out of style around 1982.

New BBC Open Forum said...

wish,

If you're wondering what happened to your comment about the "thousands" being told they weren't welcome to play on BBC's ball fields... I think you posted it on the wrong blog. (See FBC Jax Watchdog, June 28th, 7:43 p.m.)

Just a guess...

32yrs@bbc said...

Off topic - but can anyone tell me what you know about the Secret Church (David Platt in Birmingham)?

gopher said...

WishIhadknown said...

"I wonder; did anyone point out to Jacobson that SG told (without actually saying the words) several thousands of us that we are not welcome to play on SG’s fields, either."
June 28, 2010 7:43 PM

Except Jana Jacobson had friends that would stand by her, unlike the "Family of Friends" at Bellevue Baptist Church (and others?)

.

gopher said...

Posted by Christa Brown at
stop baptist predators blog

Nincompoop nonsense
A women’s softball team wanted to get in more games. So they registered and paid their fee to compete in the Bellevue Baptist Church league. Bellevue banned them.

Andy Beal, the church’s “sports outreach” minister “had received information” that the team’s coach was gay. So he contacted her for a meeting and inquired about it. The coach, Jana Jacobson, “acknowledged she is gay.”

Bellevue’s “recreation minister,” Scotty Shows, then told Jacobson that her team couldn’t play.

“The team’s participation would send a message to Bellevue members that the church condoned her lifestyle.” That’s what Jacobsen was reportedly told.

About 10 days ago, when I first saw this story, I thought, “What nincompoops.” But it didn’t seem worthy of comment. After all, if I wrote a blog posting every time some Baptist minister did something nonsensical, hypocritical, and hateful, I’d never even manage to get the laundry done.

So, despite the obvious fodder for “love thy neighbor” sarcasm, I let it go.

Then I saw this more recent article with the remarks of Bellevue’s senior pastor, Steve Gaines . . . and I just couldn’t bite my tongue any longer.

The senior pastor of this Memphis mega church justified the decision to ban the coach’s softball team by saying that those in leadership positions influence others. He told Bellevue church members that the disqualification of the softball team would have been handled differently if it had involved something in the coach’s past. But “you’re engaged in it right now,” sermonized Gaines.

to be continued

gopher said...

Continued...

To appreciate the full effect of Gaines’ remarks, you have to put them in context with Gaines’ own conduct. So let me bring you up to speed. Gaines is a Southern Baptist pastor who turned a blind eye and kept quiet when one of his staff ministers, Paul Williams, admitted to having repeatedly molested an adolescent boy. But minister Williams claimed it was in the past. So pastor Gaines did nothing.

In fact, worse than doing nothing, Gaines kept Williams in a position of trust and leadership as a minister in the church. He even allowed Williams to serve as a counselor to people who said they had been molested as children.

Did you get that? Gaines allowed one of his staff ministers, who was an admitted pedophile, to sit in his church office and use his ministerial position to listen to the most personal and painful stories of people molested as children. Pretty sick stuff, eh?

But senior pastor Steve Gaines apparently figured it was okay since minister Williams said his conduct was in the past. So Gaines kept it quiet and kept the admitted child molester on his ministerial staff.

All of this is public information. Gaines’ conduct came to light two-and-a-half years ago.

But despite Gaines’ keep-it-quiet response to a clergy child molester, Bellevue Baptist still retains Gaines in a leadership position. This is continuing conduct by the church itself -- conduct that they’re “engaged in right now.”

By retaining Steve Gaines, Bellevue Baptist sends a constant message that, in fact, it is no big deal for a pastor to keep quiet about a minister’s sexual abuse of a kid.

In many other organizations, a failure and cover-up as reckless and contrived as that of Steve Gaines would carry the consequence of a required resignation. New leadership would be demanded. But not at the Baptist megachurch of Bellevue. And not when the leader is a purported anointed one.

A pastor’s cover-up of clergy child molestation should require serious consequences, but the leadership lesson of Bellevue is that it doesn’t.

That’s the style of leadership that pastor Steve Gaines has demonstrated.

It’s bad enough that Bellevue would purport to stake moral high ground with its petty ouster of a women’s softball team.

But it becomes flat-out ludicrous when you realize that Bellevue’s own leader holds all the moral ground of a mosquito-infested swampland.

32yrs@bbc said...

Bravo to Christa Brown. This sin
(covering up and even supporting one who had committed child molestation) was excused, rationalized, and swept under the rug. But God sees, knows and cares. When Joshua and his army started being defeated by their enemies, Joshua questioned God. Where was God? Why was He
no longer going before them into battle and giving them victory? Joshua was on his knees, seeking answers and God's reply? "Joshua, get off your knees! There is sin in the camp!" Until Joshua took care of the sin of disobedience of one of his men, God would withdraw His power/protection and there would be no more victories. (See
Joshua 7) God changes not. He will not bless that which He abhors. He will not bless disobedience or hidden sin.

Been Redeemed said...

"Sad about what is happening at LWF but with the LWF Board permeated by SG supporters I’m amazed it has taken this long. Will they use leather when they redecorate? I just hope they do not start incorporating SG into their organization."

The lady taking over the president's position is Cathy Allen. She is the marketing director at LWF and a Bellevue member. If I am not mistaken, she is also going to be the operations officer (is that a board position?).

"Wish" mentioned redecorating the offices. I hope not since last I heard Skelton was on WCRV begging donations, so I would be disappointed to hear that is happening. Besides, Skelton had his office expensively redecorated after Dr. Rogers died. Seems like another mess up to me, but I am not privy to all the workings of their power machine. I think the entire board must be blind or ignorant to put a divorced woman on her third husband in his place plus give her more power with a newly created position. Dr. Rogers maintained a very high standard of appearances so no one could discredit the ministry for things like this.

As far as the Study Bible goes, all it had was some of the Adrianisms in it and a few commentaries and who knows whose they were, could have been Skelton's take on it for all I know. One of the people I talked to said that they had ordered something like 20 thousand of them and they were not on backorder, they were late getting them because the person who made all the arrangements messed up. I don't know if that was the person that was in charge of the project or someone else in leadership, regardless, they need to tell the truth about it all. I know I saw on the pre-sale ad the version was not mentioned, then they added it later so I assume someone questioned about it not being there and I wondered if it were an oversight or they were concealing it because Dr. Rogers always used the KJV when he preached and they were trying to sell the NKJV and avoid conflict because of it.

Regardless, if someone does not do something, Gaines will be the one LWF will be broadcasting in years to come, that is if they can stay afloat after it gets out what they are doing. Godly people don't support deceit.

New BBC Open Forum said...

The NKJV is copyrighted by Thomas Nelson, Inc. I would assume LWF would have to pay royalties for the right to reproduce it in its entirety. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.) Since one of the main purposes of this project was to raise money for LWF, I wonder why they didn't just use the KJV which is free and more widely read and accepted?

missions51 said...

kverg: "Unfortunately, the leadership of Dr. Rogers' remaining ministry, Love Worth Finding, has seen fit to participate in likeminded worldly governance in placing a woman who has been divorced twice in the leadership role once held by Dr. Rogers himself. I am shocked and dismayed if this has been approved and condoned by the Rogers family and hopefully they will overturn this decision made by the Board of Directors. It would be a direct act of disobedience to God's Word to allow this to stand and would open the door for yet another legacy to fall. Heaven help us all if it does!"

This godly lady’s divorces occurred before she was saved. I believe this is different than divorce after salvation. She is a new creation in Jesus Christ since that time. (Also, her position is not that of pastor, bishop, elder, or deacon.)

Isn’t the goal of Jesus Christ the redemption of sinners? To take each of us with out sin and failures and transform us into His own image and mold us into a vessel He can fill and use for His purpose.

LWF is God’s ministry. Anything of eternal value accomplished there, or anywhere else, will be of and by the Holy Spirit through men and women surrendered to Him.

God’s perspective on who He calls for various ministry positions is often very different from ours. Consider King David - obviously the husband of more than qone wife and forgiven of very serious sin while king. God forgave and restored him.

I believe God is seeking hearts that are surrendered and committed to Him – and in His sovereignty He places His servants where He will.

As this is not a church nor a situation where church discipline is applicable, perhaps time would be better spent praying for the leadership at LWF and the proclamation of the gospel.

32yrs@bbc said...

mission51: God does forgive us of our sins but the consequences go on. King David repented fully (Ps.51), and God forgave him fully but God did not wipe out the consequences. The sword never left David's household.

I am thankful this lady has been redeemed and restored but it is a fact she is on her third marriage.
And she will be heading up a ministry that is an off-shoot of the church of Jesus Christ. Surely,
the board could have found a better
candidate for the position of president of LWF.

I do agree with you that prayer more than words of criticism should be said for LWF.

Been Redeemed said...

The Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is the Body of Christ, thus discipline and consequence is required for us all.
The same people that refused to purchase the NKJV Adrian Rogers Study Bible are probably some of the supporters of the ministry. How will they look on this if they wouldn't even deviate from the KJV?
The scripture that comes to mind is one that Dr. Rogers used to maintain his integrity and keep the ministry above reproach: I Thess 5:22 "Abstain from ALL appearance of evil."
Even though this lady may be a wonderful person and her sin of divorce "under the blood", it does not justify placing her in a position of authority in a ministry; and yes, LWF is a ministry, governed by the very same scripture that would apply to anyone in ministry leadership. If a man were divorced, he would be delegated to the possiblity of never reaching any higher in the "church" heirachy than a possible usher or parking lot attendant and there are a lot of very good men who were divorced prior to their redemption. Your excuse is lame and does not hold up to the light of scripture; as a matter of fact, it sounds very similar to the excuse Steve Gaines gave when he was called to account for keeping Paul Williams on staff......

MOM4 said...

Does this lady hold a position of authority over any of the other leadership?

missions51 said...

32yrs@bbc said: God does forgive us of our sins but the consequences go on. King David repented fully (Ps.51), and God forgave him fully but God did not wipe out the consequences. The sword never left David's household.

True and I highly respect both your opinion and the godly character that continually shines through your posts. However, this time I disagree somewhat with your conclusion.

I certainly believe the consequences of sin go on and for this lady, I sure the consequences continue on as well.

Considering the fact that God did not remove David from his position as king, although the consequences of his sin certainly had ramifications on his continuing rule, I am wondering if this is because he wasn’t a priest?

Obviously, Abraham and Jacob, Patriarchs of Israel were not husbands of one wife, yet God did not cast them off and call out others to be the fathers of His people. Is this because they were not priests or Levites? (I am really interesting in your perspective on this question.)

32yrs@bbc said: And she will be heading up a ministry that is an off-shoot of the church of Jesus Christ. Surely, the board could have found a better candidate for the position of president of LWF.

Currently, the president of LWF is not in a position of teaching nor preaching. Yes, it is a ministry and part of the body of Christ, but her position is one more geared toward marketing, fund raising rather than teaching or preaching. With her experience as assistant to Bill Skelton over the years I believe she has the best skill set for the position.

I feel the LWF board has earned trust over years deserves some credit for scriptural insight, for discernment, for seeking God’s guidance and following it.

Been Redeemed said...

"Currently, the president of LWF is not in a position of teaching nor preaching. Yes, it is a ministry and part of the body of Christ, but her position is one more geared toward marketing, fund raising rather than teaching or preaching. With her experience as assistant to Bill Skelton over the years I believe she has the best skill set for the position."

I have one more concern. If this lady and Skelton have been in charge of fundraising and marketing for all these years, why is the ministry not doing well financially? I know the economy is doing poorly; however God's pocketbook is not locked.
It also seems to me that with the high quality of material Adrian left to LWF, the world should be beating down the door for it. Love Worth Finding should be the most blessed ministry on earth.

Been Redeemed said...

"I feel the LWF board has earned trust over years deserves some credit for scriptural insight, for discernment, for seeking God’s guidance and following it."

Considering the number of board members who repeatedly sit at the feet of Steve Gaines, I am very skeptical of their wisdom. I am also concerned that this action was perhaps a surprise to some on the board at a meeting with everything already in place except for a sudden vote laid on the table.
Being political in business provides one with keen insight into the innerworkings of boards and such; that being said, I see many issues that will develop over this board appointment.
I agree with the statements by others here, and the comments made in the Commercial Appeal. In these unsettling and dark times, strong, honest leadership is needed; therefore, perhaps if this lady, who is held in such high regard by the board, is to remain in this position, I would suggest a much stronger leader prevail over the ministry and she take a less prominent role in order to maintain at least the appearance of propriety.
Perhaps Bill Skelton needs to retire and a younger, wiser and more energetic man take his place. From what I understand, he no longer works for LWF at this time anyway. Perhaps he could focus his energies in accomplishing his goals at NRB.

missions51 said...

Been Redeemed said ...and yes, LWF is a ministry, governed by the very same scripture that would apply to anyone in ministry leadership. If a man were divorced, he would be delegated to the possibility of never reaching any higher in the "church" heirachy than a possible usher or parking lot attendant and there are a lot of very good men who were divorced prior to their redemption.

How do you define ministry? My computer dictionary defines ministry as “the profession and services of a religious minister; a religious minister’s career or period of service.” That seems a bit narrow. I think we would agree that you don’t have to be a “minister” in the sense of a pastor, preacher, evangelist, or member of the clergy to have a ministry.

In fact, in the Great Commission, I believe Jesus commands all believers to be witnesses for Jesus Christ and His resurrection. In doing so each believer in essence has a ministry. This ministry is their personal responsibility. If a person has been divorced, does it mean this command no longer applies to them? What about a man who is divorced with children? Is he no longer their spiritual leader?

Of course the answer is no. I believe it is because these ministries, while in the body of church, are not under the direct administration of the local church. I believe this also applies to para church ministries like LWF.

Been Redeemed said … and yes, LWF is a ministry, governed by the very same scripture that would apply to anyone in ministry leadership.

Churches are ministries, but not all ministries are churches. Obviously the guidelines given for elders and deacons are excellent guidelines for leadership anywhere, but they were given for churches. It seems to me that the Bible is silent about para-church organizations. While they are ministries, I don’t not see that scripture commands the same guidelines for leaders. Would not saying the guidelines in Titus and Timothy apply to leadership para-church ministries be taking it out of context?

Where scripture is adamant, we should be adamant. Where it is silent, we can look for principles. Would it be “rightly dividing the Word of Truth” in this case to say the command for church leadership, is specifically commanded for para-church ministries?


Been Redeemed said … Your excuse is lame and does not hold up to the light of scripture; as a matter of fact, it sounds very similar to the excuse Steve Gaines gave when he was called to account for keeping Paul Williams on staff......

I have to respectfully, but whole hearted disagree with you here. I don’t see it as an excuse, but as a reason. I am still seeking and studying scripture. At this point I think it does hold up to the light of scripture. By no stretch of the imagination does this compare to harboring a child molester, forgiven or unforgiven.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Blogger is messed up yet again and won't let me publish anyone's comments. Will publish as soon as they fix it... again.

:-(

32yrs@bbc said...

"Considering the fact that God did not remove David from his position as king, although the consequences of his sin certainly had ramifications on his continuing rule, I am wondering if this is because he wasn’t a priest?"

mission51:
I am definitely not a theologian but I do know David's role in God's eternal plan for Israel and this lady cannot be compared. Also, if you will refer to
I Peter 2:5 you will note that as believers we are now part of a
"holy priesthood" through our Lord
Jesus Christ.

Though we disagree on this matter, I believe we both agree we want God's very best for LWF and we need to uphold it in prayer, asking God to protect it. The enemy of our souls hates the Word of God and is always working both externally and internally to snare any ministry that honors the teaching/preaching of it.

Been Redeemed said...

I wanted to respond to your post after carefully and prayerfully considering your comments. One point I would like to address and get it off the table immediately is the statement I made regarding the similarity between the statements given by you and the LWF situation vs. Steve Gaines regarding the Paul Williams incident. My point was that just because something is considered “under the blood” or “pre-salvation” does not make it ok to ignore. That said, I assure you I in no way intended to disparage LWF by making the supposed similarity between the two incidents seem comparable, but rather the “reasoning behind the action” to be comparable.

I also wanted to try to talk to others regarding the appointment at LWF and I was grieved upon learning that Mrs. Allen had spoken in front of the staff, and had tendered her resignation several months ago. Her reasoning was that God had called her away from LWF, to seek employment elsewhere. She also told others that she was “dry” and she no longer had anything to contribute to the ministry. (Question: What changed this?)

I also learned that everyone I talked to and their known associates on the staff were shocked when they were told of her new position. Subsequent morale problems have ensued following this appointment; however, there are a select few of her closest co-workers that have received promotions and raises even though the financial situation of LWF has not improved to the point where they can reinstate the contributions to the employee retirement funds or reinstate those salaries that were previously cut due to the continuing shortfalls in the annual budget. Which brings me to my point made in my previous post - Who has been overseeing marketing and fundraising all these years?

I feel surely that you must be in the know regarding the purpose for this appointment and I believe firmly that you think or hope you did the best you could for the ministry; however, it seems more like a knee-jerk reaction to retain the dear lady on the staff by someone who wants to maintain control, be that you or someone else close to the leadership.

I am keenly aware of the scriptures delving into church leadership and I would like to point out that these same scriptures were written in an era when the church was basically underground, seeking to emerge into the full light of day. Please understand, I fully believe in the literal translation of scripture, I do not see anything that would cause me to deviate from its truth. I will not go by what seems to be a technicality by you and those seeking to justify this appointment. I am also wondering what determinations were used when Paige Patterson fired Sheri Klouda (the Hebrew professor at SWBTS) because she was "in a position of authority" over men? That certainly wasn't a church or a position of "pastor, bishop, elder, or deacon” and she was not a divorcee.

Since the cat is out of the bag with the latest newsletter devoting the entire back page to this appointment, I dare say the leadership, including the board, will make no stand to correct an obvious error in judgment.

tn_lizzie2000 said...

=8-0

just sayin'

New BBC Open Forum said...

?:-\

Just askin'...

gopher said...

Bellevue made the Commercial Appeal.... again

Coast Guard Missing?


Did Jim Barnwell delete the segment honoring the Coast Guard from the Tribute on Sunday's TV broadcast? .... as it was included in the June 28 2009 as well as July 4th 2010 services on campus.


.

TN Lizzie said...

Thankfully, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Bellevue, but it needs attention!

Perhaps this needs its own thread?
All Americans, regardless of level of melanin in their skin, need to be aware of this!

In case you didn't catch the news, the leader of the Philadelphia Black Panthers called for the murder of white people.

I kid you not. Read the full post and watch the video footage here.

The transcript of the most offensive part is below:

Samir: My job is to educate black people, whether they want to be educated or not. I don’t give a damn what they may think about white people, I hate white people. All of them. Every last iota of a cracker I hate him. Because we are still in this condition.
……
Narrator: Samir will use any opportunity to shout his message. Even at a festival to celebrating African heritage.

Samir: We keep begging white people for freedom. No wonder we’re not free. Your enemy can not make you free fool. You want freedom you’re going to have to kill some crackers. You’re going to have to kill some of their babies.

Kill their babies? I don't care what color or stripe you are - THIS is hate. Why is there silence from our poloticians on this CRIME?

DOJ has dismissed lawsuits against the Black Panther Party. Voter Intimidation? Uh, yes. Hate crimes? Uh, yes. Discrimination? Uh, yes.

This should not be.

Anybody heard any rumblings in Memphis about this?

It's time to pray.

32yrs@bbc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
gopher said...

Update:

Someone was rewarded for their part in this gay incident.....

Just as Jamie Parker was, when he was sent to First Baptist Dyersburg for doing ...... or not doing ......?


"Bellevue Honors Andy Beal

After four years of service in Bellevue’s Recreation Ministry, Andy Beal will be leaving us to serve as Minister of Discipleship and Assimilation at Colonial Heights Baptist Church in Ridgeland, Mississippi.

Andy is a graduate of Vanderbilt University and Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary, and he served at Bellevue as Minister, Sports Outreach. Please pray for Andy and Tracey and their two young daughters, Laurel and Riley, as they make this transition.

Thank you, Andy, for your faithful service to Bellevue, and God bless your new ministry at Colonial Heights Baptist Church."



.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Assimilation"?

gopher said...

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Assimilation"?

Yes, that's after the fish is caught, you have to clean, skin and cook it before devouring it:


"Just clean them by cutting from anus to gills, grab the gills and pull (knock them out first with a swift blow to the head with the knife handle or hammer.)

Rinse briefly with clean water and scrub whatever blood/etc remains, if any. Remove the head/tail/skin if you prefer (I usually only remove the head) and place them in tin foil.

Lightly perforate the inside of the cavity with a fork, put 1/4 stick of butter in the cavity with salt/pepper/herbs to taste. Wrap up the foil and add another foil layer, throw it in cool/medium campfire coals for 15 minutes. DELICIOUS!!!

Recommended sides include salad, cornbread, fresh cooked veggies,”home fries” or any potato dish, eggs, rice."


.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Oh, I thought it meant this.

gopher said...

Update:

WMCTV - Fullilove receives death threat over non-discrimination ordinance

Bellevue Loves Memphis
.

Anonymous said...

WOW, No Gays allowed as coaches at Bellevue Baptist Church, pastor-ed by Steve Gaines

But Drunkards are recruited as Children's coaches?

And He Even Brags About It

I guess this is one of the "Dudes" that Mark Driscoll wants in the church today.