Thursday, December 24, 2009

Merry Christmas, Y'all!



While I had planned something more personal and original in the way of a Christmas greeting, there is no way I could ever top this.

For your holiday viewing pleasure, SWBTS presents "Pecan Manor Christmas 2009." Dr. Dorothy Patterson narrates this tour of Pecan Manor, home of the president of SWBTS.


video


Won't you sit back and joi-in Mizz Dorothy, the President, and Noche for a spot of delightful tea in the parlah?

Watch larger version here for now.

136 comments:

New BBC Open Forum said...

I didn't know dogs enjoy tea.

32yrs@bbc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Richard said...

What an obnoxious display. It reminded me of the Queen of England narrating a tour of Windsor Castle.

An east and west dining room? Does this necessitate TWO pastry chefs?

maybejustmaybe said...

Okay, maybe it's just me, but did anyone else think Dr. Patterson sounded like "Sivad" when he opened the door and said, rather sneeringly I thought, "Oh, good EVE-ning!"?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Good point. And he seemed surprised to find a camera staring him in the face.

Mrs. Dr. Patterson's voice is like honey dripping off a warm buttered biscuit. They should sell recordings of her reading bedtime stories.

Mr. Dr. Patterson's voice, on the other hand, is like honey dripping off a warm buttered biscuit... as it's being shoved through a Troy-Bilt chipper shredder.

"Well... ell... goooood eve-en-ing! Welchhhome to the prezzzident's home... on the campus of Soufwester' Baptis' The'logical Sem'nary. We're delighted to have you joi-in-nnn us tonight. My wife tells me that we're havin' a teeee Christmas this ye-arrr... sooo No-chee and I.... " Ugh.

Beatrice Jones said...

I thought this blog is to spread truth and God's love. Why the personal attacks, New BBC Open Forum?

It's just his voice, God gave it to him, you should not attack him

New BBC Open Forum said...

I'm not "attacking" his voice. His natural voice no doubt would be somewhat "gravelly" regardless, and that's something he can't help. It's his delivery, which has no doubt taken years of practice to hone, that I'm speaking of. It affects me the same way as preachers who drag out the ends of words -- e.g. "the Word of Gawd... duhhh."

MJM's comparison to "Sivad" was spot on.

Video of Sivad

About Sivad

Bill said...

I agree with others regarding the over indulgence of SWBTS

I left Bellevue when they moved to the "New Location" The marble floor, the overhead chandelier, and the 3 sitting rooms off to the right with Grand pianos was overkill as well

Why are they not the same? Seems to me like identical situations

New BBC Open Forum said...

Bill,

If you were at Bellevue that long ago you should remember that the chandelier (just like the three big crosses) was supposedly a gift from a member years ago when the church was at the old location. They just brought it with them when they moved to the Cordova location. Perhaps a plaque (maybe there already is one) displayed somewhere in the south lobby indicating the chandelier was a gift from so-and-so would dispel this rumor that won't seem to die.

I agree that much of the rest of the "main campus" today was overkill, and many of the things they're proposing to spend millions on (where is this money coming from?) is no different.

32yrs@bbc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
New BBC Open Forum said...

Well, that's one of the few pieces of history that hasn't been packed away. Has anyone noticed the Lee pulpit is now conspicuously absent during the 11:11 Sunday morning service as well as the Sunday and Wednesday evening services? It's been replaced with what looks like a smoked Plexiglas music stand.

New BBC Open Forum said...

The donated chandelier:

Then

Now

Beatrice Jones said...

Chandeliers, old pulpit . . . have you got too caught in the details that you have forgotten what matters? Jesus! These little things are not worth getting caught up in.

and the pupit is not "conspicuously" absent. IT IS ABSENT. no one is trying to hide things from you.

Been Redeemed said...

Wow, who put a bee in Bea's bonnet?
The pulpit is a very important part of worship, so why is it taken away? Is it considered offensive, as the baptistery is? Someone needs to revisit Willow Creek to see what kind of lasting damage these acts of "removing" the traditional aspects of the church can cause. God is the God of tradition and ritual, and of course, the Gospel IS offensive to those who want to wallow in their sins, so just make them comfortable in it? Is that the intent of the church these days? Just because Jesus brought us unmerited grace and salvation does not mean that God does not still hold us accountable for disrespect of His church. We should repent of such things, and reverence and respect the traditions He set forth. "Hiding" things He uses to bring us to conviction does nothing but deny His commands, the same goes for the music and the choir. (and imo, the “all dressed alike” praise teams are a sham – we may as well be at the Grand Ole Opry or the FEDEX Forum!)
It's all sort of like slaughtering a pig on the temple mound. Just sayin…….

New BBC Open Forum said...

"and the pupit is not "conspicuously" absent. IT IS ABSENT. no one is trying to hide things from you."

Errr...

Courtesy of the folks at Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: con·spic·u·ous
Pronunciation: \kən-ˈspi-kyə-wəs, -kyü-əs\
Function: adjective

1 : obvious to the eye or mind (conspicuous changes)

Obviously obvious. check

2 : attracting attention : striking (a conspicuous success)

Well, it caught my attention. check

3 : marked by a noticeable violation of good taste

Priceless! check

synonyms: see noticeable

— con·spic·u·ous·ly adverb

e.g. The Lee pulpit is now conspicuously absent during the 11:11 Sunday morning service as well as the Sunday and Wednesday evening services.

The defense rests.

Beatrice Jones said...

I'm sorry, I must have thought of 'suspicious'.
I'm still learning English, Italian is still my better language.

New BBC Open Forum said...

No, I wasn't thinking it was suspicious at all.

32yrs@bbc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bill said...

ALL: I remember the Chandelier at the "Old Bellevue" well

The point is the same: It's all show and means nothing in the economy of God regardless of who gave it. Using that money to buy Bibles or to assist someone with an education would have been much better stewardship with that money--again, regardless of who gave it!

Bill

Romans 5:1

WishIhadknown said...

The person who carved the pulpit did it as a lasting witness and an act of worship to Jesus. To remove it and replace it with a piece of commercial grade plastic, is an insult to the giver and a rejection of his witness, which is typical of the present preacher at Bellevue. You say you want to witness Jesus; the old pulpit is exactly that!

WishIhadknown said...

Not sure why we are focused on the past that cannot change but here is me two cents worth.
The chandelier use to hang in the sanctuary of the old church and, as I remember it, was a gift to the church in the 1950’s. This was meant as a lasting witness for the giver, who has long passed.
I do know the grand pianos were paid for with money given for that specific purpose. The Bosendorfer was purchased with money left by a long time staff member who passed in the early 1990’s. (Wish I could remember her name.)
These were all given by the giver as a lasting witness of the work of Jesus in the lives of the giver.
I am not aware of any marble floors, just a small amount of marble tile around the grand staircase.
The sitting areas were designed and are used for wedding receptions, small parties and get togethers that are a part of being in church. I do not care much for the style but that is a matter of taste and, thankfully, not everyone shares my taste. The world would be a very boring and austere place if it subscribed to my taste.
Of special note, the church building, as originally designed, would have cost $45 to $48 million to build. By cutting back on the finishes, the church was built for $34 million. So as ostentatious as the building appears it could easily have been much more ornate.
Recently, my wife and I were at Bellevue and as we walked around, we were amazed at how much money is being spent to upgrade. Incandescent light fixtures replacing fluorescent lights and classroom expansion when the church membership is contracting, that kind of thing. If the church is in need of money, it does not show.

Beatrice Jones said...

I believe he is using that cheap piece of plastic because it is easier to move and adjust. He is not obligated to use a wooden pulpit just because someone carved it for Jesus, and it is not wrong of the pastor to choose not to use it every service.

but Look at us: arguing over pieces of plastic and wood when others are out there winning people for Jesus. my new year's resolution is to stop talking and start doing.

Been Redeemed said...

Wish,
Do you remember the very FIRST thing Steve Gaines did was to remodel the pastor's office? (after he got his new ride, of course) Dr. Rogers had received the gift of an office renovation - something he did not ask for by the way - only a short time before his retirement, yet Steve Gaines felt he needed a better quality plush carpet and high-end leather furniture. He wanted something he could walk on barefoot, that would be soft under his toesies...and it was a very pricy remodel if my memory serves me.
There is an obvious (conspicuous, if you please) difference between the men and their ministries - one spent the time on his knees, grateful for what he was given, and the other demanding squishy comfort for his BARE FEET!

32yrs@bbc said...

Bill, please read and consider
Matthew 26:7-13.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"but Look at us: arguing over pieces of plastic and wood when others are out there winning people for Jesus. my new year's resolution is to stop talking and start doing."

Sheesh. I love it when people do this. They enter into the middle of a discussion (not an argument... I don't see anyone arguing) and play the "you should be out winning people for Jesus" card. It's so predictable. Can people not discuss something among themselves and witness to the lost at the same time? I didn't realize it was an either/or proposition.

Bill said...

32 yrs

I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but ok! I guess.


BTW, the point of that passage is that Jesus (not chandeliers, not marble floors, nor anything else) is worthy of all we have. He is our Saviour and nothing compares to him.

Again, not sure how that relates to wasteful spending on the pleasures of men.

Grace

Romans 5:1

Been Redeemed said...

Bill said:
"32 yrs
I have no idea what point you are trying to make, but ok! I guess."

Are you kidding me? Did you READ the passage?

While you are at it, please read about the requirements for the "house" that King Solomon built.
I Kings 5

New BBC Open Forum said...

Matthew 26:7-13

I think I see the relevance. The chandelier and pulpit (which I didn't know about) were gifts from individuals. It's not my place to tell an individual what to do with his money.

It's quite a different matter when you see TPTB in your church wasting the members' tithes and offerings. In that case you have the right, if not the obligation, to speak out about it.

For example, I have no idea how much that chandelier cost, but if the church had purchased it while the preacher was beating the sheep to give more, there's a problem.

Was that your point?

32yrs@bbc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
32yrs@bbc said...

Was that your point?

Yes! And you said it much better than I. :0)

New BBC Open Forum said...

Here's what Dr. Rogers said about this subject in a recent devotional:

Sometimes people in large churches get a lot of grief from “the world” because of the great expenses of building and maintaining their church. I’ve heard, “Why didn’t they take that money and feed the poor?” Here’s my answer, “People need Jesus.” The social gospel thinks all men need is food. If I had five billion dollars and bought everybody on earth a snack; in several hours, they’d all be hungry again. There’s nothing wrong with feeding the poor. We ought to do that. But the social gospel puts an emphasis on what is temporary. The true gospel puts the emphasis upon what is eternal. Folks need more than soup and soap; they need salvation.

If that was his entire answer, it was weak. Actually, people need both. A person isn't going to usually be very receptive to the gospel if he hasn't eaten in two days. In this case telling someone about salvation is going to ring about as hollow as his stomach.

I realize these devotionals are cut out of the context of a sermon or longer article, but I find I do not always completely agree with these blurbs.

New BBC Open Forum said...

32yrs,

I was about to say you said it better than I!

New BBC Open Forum said...

"He wanted something he could walk on barefoot, that would be soft under his toesies..."

I've tried to imagine this, but for the life of me I cannot see any of the previous pastors of BBC walking around inside his office barefooted (or admitting it if he did). Yabba dabba doo!

Bill said...

ALL

Personally, I Do Not care about the chandelier! Nor the Pulpit!

My point is that God delights in obedience and holy living--PERIOD

NOT IN OBJECTS USED IN WORSHIP!

It is irrelevant to compare the Temple/Tabernacle to modern churches espeically since GOD himself gave the design for both under the Old Covenant. We are under the New Covenant so comparing the 2 is totally irrelevant.

The idea with the money and the Nard was that Jesus knew that Judas cared nothing for the poor, but was making a show to extort the money from the treasury of the Disciples--SO YES, I did read the passage

BOTTOMLINE, I left Bellevue when I realized that it was showy and foolishly spending money provided by hard working people IE the new campus at Appling, ETC

By His Grace

Bill

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

NASS said:

"I think I see the relevance. The chandelier and pulpit (which I didn't know about) were gifts from individuals. It's not my place to tell an individual what to do with his money.

It's quite a different matter when you see TPTB in your church wasting the members' tithes and offerings. In that case you have the right, if not the obligation, to speak out about it."


I agree. How much worse if you visited the preacher's house, and you saw the chandalier in HIS foyer?

New BBC Open Forum said...

Do they sell chandeliers out of the back of a truck?

Junkster said...

New BBC Open Forum said...
Do they sell chandeliers out of the back of a truck?


{Snicker} Only if you really, really need one and pray for it.

New BBC Open Forum said...

... and pay cash.

WishIhadknown said...

Bill
You bring back many fond memories of the Sundays I sat next to a great theologian and we jokingly groused about the many ways money was spent around the church.

On a related note, I recently had a conversation with a dear brother from Germantown who was relating how they used to spend money without really thinking about it. Now, as he told me, they are being more discreet. E.g. ordering just enough pizzas for an event instead of over ordering and having pizza left over.

gopher said...

May I break in here and say Happy Birthday to John "Steve" Gaines on his , well is it his 52nd
Birthday? I would have suggested a
birthday gift but as he has
already shut down the church (no Wednesday night and No New Years
Eve Services)in order to accommodate his own celebration and has milked the church for all the $$$ its worth, we should probably just pass.

PS. Anyone remember when he held that Snow Service this past year
just in case someone needed to be saved?


.

WishIhadknown said...

Sorry, I apologize in advance for writing this but I cannot help it. The image of Steve Gaines moving the pulpits around on Sunday morning just keeps floating around in my head. Like that would ever happen.

I am pretty sure he has people for that and if it is so hard to move; would it not then make sense to leave it in place?

You say you want to witness Jesus? That’s what the wooden pulpit does! That is what I was pointing out. So you have to come up with yet another excuse for why Gaines does what he does.

The plastic podium is just another example of Gaines trying to make the church not look like a church. How does this make sense?

For those of us old enough, a number of churches adopted this same strategy in the 70’s. (And you thought this was all a new idea!) They too shooed away the members who objected using the same tired arguments about witnessing and supporting the preacher. They too got rid of the hymnals and adopted a more “hip” worship style “to attract the young people.”

Most of these churches are gone now. A very few still exist today; mere shells of their former selves. They have a veneer of a church but the inside is hollow because the Spirit does not live there.

I do not know if that is what will happen to Bellevue; my prayer is that it will not.

WishIhadknown said...

Happy Birthday, Dr. Gaines.

WishIhadknown said...

Been
I have not been privy to the office remodel but I cannot fault him on that. I would have expected him or anyone else to remodel the office to his liking especially at a rich church like Bellevue.
On the other hand, I could very easily see Dr. Rogers being barefoot in his office; he was just kind of a common guy. What I cannot see is the Country Club preacher doing it.
Blessing upon you and all.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"You say you want to witness Jesus? That’s what the wooden pulpit does!"

Eh... not sure I'd go that far. That almost sounds like the Catholics. The pulpit is, after all, a chunk of wood. The issue to me seems to be the desire of many to erase any vestige of Bellevue's past, and the pulpit is but one casualty of that desire.

"The plastic podium is just another example of Gaines trying to make the church not look like a church. How does this make sense?"

Exactly. It doesn't make sense unless that's the agenda. We can't offend "the unchurched" with things like neckties, "old" music, and now apparently, old wooden pulpits.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"I have not been privy to the office remodel but I cannot fault him on that."

I can. The pastor's study had just undergone an expensive remodel a year or so earlier. Dr. Rogers was happy with the way things were and gave in and let them remodel his office only after much and lengthy pressure.

In stark contrast, SG not only made them completely redo the recently remodeled study, he had them take in an adjacent conference room and lavishly renovate it to house his "library."

I'm sorry, but SG is not a king, even if he does think of himself as one. He's an employee, and when you're the new kid on the block you take what you're provided (which was very nice by any reasonable person's standards) and maybe... just maybe... after you've been on the job a few years you can start envisioning renovations... if the church is well in the black or someone wants to donate the materials and labor. In the meantime place a few photos of your family on your desk, some favorite tchotchkes on the shelves, a soft throw rug on the floor (for your bare tootsies), perhaps a more comfortable desk chair, and be grateful for your blessings!

WishIhadknown said...

OK, the wooden pulpit does not witness Jesus per se it is just a piece of wood. But the person who carved and or bought meant it to be a witness of what God did for him after his life had passed. Sheesh tough crowd!

Beatrice Jones said...

NBBCOF, you are a coward for not posting my reply. This is unfair censorship, because I abiding by all your rules. Perhaps this is your way of gaining control that you do not have in the "real world." In your own little blog world, you have control the responses made to you. Even the perfectly reasonable and justified replies.

This proves to me that this blog is run by a cowardly individual and has no merit whatsoever.

I pray Jesus will forgive you, even if you don't think you are wrong. You are worse than Bellevue. At Bellevue, they go by their real names and allow responses. You do neither. Cowards.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Beatrice Jones wrote:

NBBCOF, you are a coward for not posting my reply. This is unfair censorship, because I abiding by all your rules. Perhaps this is your way of gaining control that you do not have in the "real world." In your own little blog world, you have control the responses made to you. Even the perfectly reasonable and justified replies.

This proves to me that this blog is run by a cowardly individual and has no merit whatsoever.

I pray Jesus will forgive you, even if you don't think you are wrong. You are worse than Bellevue. At Bellevue, they go by their real names and allow responses. You do neither. Cowards.


Madam,

I have published every comment you've posted. Perhaps it simply didn't come through. It happens occasionally. But you are not being censored.

Beatrice Jones said...

I will trust you, but I know I submitted two replies. It said they would wait for moderation, yet others have been posting all along without mine showing up.

Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

WishIhadknown said...

Now, New, be realistic that just doesn't work with his buddies at the Country Club. His crib has to match his status. It probably only cost a few G's and that's nothin' no one will miss it. He's goin' to make every member a tither after all. If you don't tithe you're not saved and if you're not saved then your not welcome in his church, unless you're a "seeker."

New BBC Open Forum said...

Beatrice,

As I said, it happens occasionally. I don't owe you any explanation, but I'll try to clear up some things about the comment moderation process. I just checked the moderation queue as well as my e-mail, and there are no unmoderated comments except for three from "all-about-the-truth" which were posted almost two months ago. S/he was asked to answer one simple question and refused, so subsequent comments by that person were not rejected but, as I explained at the time, have been held in queue should s/he decide to join us at a later date.

I did reject one comment from "junkster" last week, not for anything he said, but because I decided to use the subject of his comment for a new thread. He was aware of this.

I have not rejected another comment from anyone in ages. (I keep a copy of all rejected comments, so I can verify this.)

The author of the second comment in this thread deleted it later. I don't remember what the comment was or who made it.

I would suggest if you take the time to compose a comment that you keep a copy of it until you see that it's been published. That way if there's a glitch in the system, which in this case there must have been, you can resubmit it. I hope this helps.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Sheesh tough crowd!"

Wish,

I was afraid Beatrice would accuse you of "pulpit worship."

:-)

New BBC Open Forum said...

"At Bellevue, they go by their real names and allow responses."

They allow responses? LOL! Good one!

New BBC Open Forum said...

"If you don't tithe you're not saved... "

I know you were kidding, but believe it or not, he came very close to saying that very thing Sunday night.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Happy New Year!

Don't try this at home.

WishIhadknown said...

"If you don't tithe you're not saved... "

I am almost certain I heard him say just that when he preached years ago. He quickly revised his statement but still he said it and it is very clear that is what he believes.

WishIhadknown said...

"At Bellevue, they go by their real names and allow responses."

That is funny, given the leadership’s tendency to engage in the ungodly practice of retaliation against those who try to stand up to them and do not follow the party line and goes to great lengths to prevent anyone from expressing contrary opinions. Meeting adjourned, turn off the microphones; time for everyone to go.
Kind of like the Communication Committee meetings being about hearing the congregation’s concerns and then taking the concerns to the leaders. The chewing out the head of the committee gave us who spoke will forever be seared into my memory. Never in my life, even among the pagans, have I ever witnessed anything so unloving and heartless. It definitely was a witness but it sure was not of Jesus.

New BBC Open Forum said...

When SG was giving his spiel on filling out the offering envelopes ("for information, not money") during one of the last performances of the SCT, he said if anyone had any "concerns" they could write them on there and they'd prayerfully consider every one of them, then added "if you're sweet." That tells me not all the feedback from the previous performances was positive.

32yrs@bbc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
WishIhadknown said...

Somehow I imagine any unflattering comments go into the round prayer file.

Been Redeemed said...

I really don't know what the hub-bub is over the pulpit.

Gaines is only trying not to be hypocritical!
(plastic preacher=plastic pulpit)

Been Redeemed said...

New BBC Open Forum said...

Here is the video leading up to and including that story (at the end). He said, "Archie had it goin' on. Amen? Now if that bothered you, I'm sorry."

He also tells people following an earlier statement, "An 'amen' belongs there."

This is just my take on it, but I really don't think that was meant to be crude. "Got it going on" can have several meanings, some crude, some not. I honestly think he just meant it as "all right" or "with it." He did apologize (sort of) for it, but I thought that was for using Archie Bunker in a sermon illustration, not for saying "Archie had it goin' on."

Been Redeemed said...

"I could very easily see Dr. Rogers being barefoot in his office; he was just kind of a common guy."

True, he was a regular guy for sure, but he had a deep respect for the house that God built. He also had respect for people and knew the importance of symbolism and traditions, something his successor does not. When Dr. Rogers lowered himself to wash the feet of Gaines, and pass the mantle on to him, he was symbolically trying to teach him that his job as pastor was to be a humble servant leader with great responsibility. Obviously Gaines didn't "get it".
Bellevue is still visited almost daily by visitors from around the world that envision it as it is shown on their televisions, or they have heard about it. They see it as a once shining beacon standing for Light and Truth, which was the original intent. I have heard many comments about that in recent years. Those that are revisiting for the first time since the successor arrived are shocked at the void of the Holy Spirit's presence in the building., (and He does dwell in Holy places.)
That’s the key to it all at Bellevue…Just sayin...

New BBC Open Forum said...

Yes, successor. I wondered about that. :-)

I'm reminded of president Ronald Reagan who had such a respect for the office of president and by extension, the Oval Office, that he wouldn't even remove his jacket when he was inside the Oval Office. Then along came Bill Clinton and what he removed in the Oval Office. 'Nuff said.

WishIhadknown said...

BJ
Regarding your 11:22 post:
I posted just after you and told you the same thing happens to me. Guess what? My post did not come through either. This is not the first time it has happened to me.
Sorry you are having trouble, hope to hear from you soon.

WishIhadknown said...

Ok, Been, I understand and fully agree with you so I am posting this just for fun.
God told Abraham to take off his shoes because the place Abraham was standing in was holy.
Sorry, could not help myself. Love ya.

New BBC Open Forum said...

I promise, only the three comments from AATT I mentioned last night remain in the moderation queue, and no comments have been rejected in a long time. Blogger can be quirky at times, and apparently it's been that way lately. I was not aware that any comments did not come through until last night when Bea so kindly informed me about it. I don't sit at a computer 24/7, but I do post comments as soon as I'm able. If you post a comment and don't see it published within a few hours, please ask me if I got it and don't assume I'm "censoring" you.

I'll take moderation off for a while so you can see your comments immediately. I think I can trust everyone to behave.

:-)

Been Redeemed said...

Wish, LOL! Good shot! But I believe that God called Abraham to the burning bush to give him a divine message, not to squish his little tootsies in the plushness of the rug.

WishIhadknown said...

Are you sure it wasn't nut grass?

New BBC Open Forum said...

"In my opinion, Bellevue is now under the spiritual leadership of a man who is more focused on himself - his career, his rights, his family, his position of authority - than he is being a shepherd to the people he is over."

... his singing. If you don't believe that, just watch the song service from Sunday night. Twenty-two straight minutes of nothing but SG singing.

Oh, and there's that "if you're sweet" thing again. He acts like he's kidding, but the truth is, he cannot tolerate anything short of 100% support and "amens." Note requests were not taken. I guess the sheeple weren't "sweet" enough.

Lydia said...

"Jesus knew the heart of Mary of Bethany's gift to Him and what it symbolized (His soon-to-be death and burial). He rebuked her critics who complained the costly ointment was being wasted because it could have been sold to help the poor. And, He gave her great honor for her heart-felt gift."

Because of what she demonstrated in anointing Him for Burial is much more profound (because the others did not get it...but she did..and there is a reason)

She was walking along side Her Savior and sharing in His grief for what was to take place. She got it and demonstrated that with her action even while the others did not get it.

What she did has NO parallel to donating chandeliers to churches or carving pulpits (which are NO where to be found in the Word and are just a man made tradition we stoled from the pagan temples) because buildings do NOT represent Jesus Christ. We are the temple where He resides. Not these ridiculous buildings.

A better parallel is when you minister to a sick or dying person or actually help a brother and sister in Christ. Not fancy stuff to stick in buildings that rust and moth will destroy.

Lydia said...

said if anyone had any "concerns" they could write them on there and they'd prayerfully consider every one of them, then added "if you're sweet."

Oooh. Yuk. This is a typical phrase used by Mormons to discipline lesser Mormons in their care. The translation is that WE decide what is sweet and what isn't. So therefore, no one ever disagrees or confronts the evil leaders.

WishIhadknown said...

It's not just Gaines. Think about it. There are about 6 Bellevue blue bloods,who if they wanted, could do to Reverend Gaines what Gaines did to Jamie Parker. "Really love ya my brother and we will always be together but see you later."

WishIhadknown said...

Lydia, you are right it is not about the chandelier or the pulpit. They are things and will be destroyed; but the giver had a testimony. It is the givers' testimonies that makes a difference. These things bear witness to the Lordship of Jesus in the givers' lives. It is just very disrespectful to take anybody's testimony lightly.

WishIhadknown said...

22 minutes of Gaines singing?! You are kidding right? And everyone thought it was wonderful, I'm sure.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Okay, specifically about 21 1/2 minutes not including the introduction and fade to black.

Been Redeemed said...

"Are you sure it wasn't nut grass?"

What can I say? If the “shoe” fits maybe?

WishIhadknown said...

There are so many things I could say but for some reason I'm speechless. I just shake my head and laugh.

gopher said...

WishIhadknown said...

"There are about 6 Bellevue blue bloods, who if they wanted, could do to Reverend Gaines what Gaines did to Jamie Parker. "Really love ya my brother and we will always be together but see you later.""

They would but they haven't found anyone who would dare come to Bellevue to replace him. What decent preacher would leave a church where he was loved to come and deal with all those dark clouds hanging around Bellevue after what Steve Gaines what has done to it?

Hal, now why are you still in Memphis?

.

WishIhadknown said...

Gopher
Ideally, the one the Holy Spirit guides to be here.
A man who loves Jesus, loves the word, and by all means loves the people.
My pastor for instance is fairly new. He too replaced a long serving and much beloved pastor.
He has made a few mistakes.
Instead of pointing the finger and blaming others he stood in front of the congregation and apologized, saying he made a mistake and to pray for him to make better decisions!
My pastor has told us "this is your church, not mine, I am just the pastor."
This is a man I can follow because he understands.
How much is his salary? Don't know. Don't care. It's not an issue because of the love he demonstrates.
He stands in sharp contrast to the man who divides the congregation and demands loyalty to him.
Grace to all

Lydia said...

They are things and will be destroyed; but the giver had a testimony. It is the givers' testimonies that makes a difference. These things bear witness to the Lordship of Jesus in the givers' lives. It is just very disrespectful to take anybody's testimony lightly.

5:35 PM, January 01, 2010

What does a chandelier and a pulpit have to do with the supernatural transformation of the Holy Spirit? Again, we do not store up treasures here. How do material things bear witness to spiritual transformation? That is Romanish such as icons, special chairs, etc.

I agree about respecting property and it is not nice how such things are treated.

32yrs@bbc said...

"What does a chandelier and a pulpit have to do with the supernatural transformation of the Holy Spirit? Again, we do not store up treasures here. How do material things bear witness to spiritual transformation? That is Romanish such as icons, special chairs, etc."
----------------------------------
Lydia, most on this blog would certainly agree with you about things being temporary and are not to be compared with the eternal treasures. That said, I think you are missing the point that I and others are trying to make. The point is this: the pulpit and the chandelier are visuals of the history of BBC and those who gave out of love for the Lord and what He was doing in and through BBC.
No mature Christian is going to see either the pulpit or the chandelier as an icon or idol that is worthy of worship. A mature Christian certainly recognizes the difference between the temporal and the eternal. The point is it is not wise to ignore the history of the church, rid it over every vestige of the past just in order to secure or reinforce one's own legacy.

gopher said...

32yrs@bbc said...
"....in order to secure or reinforce one's own legacy."

So what will be Steve Gaines "footprint" on Bellevue that future generations will have to deal with?

.

32yrs@bbc said...

"Hal, now why are you still in Memphis?"

Gopher, I'm assuming Hal is
Hal K. Am I right? I'm a little confused by that question. Are you thinking he may go on staff at BBC?
Just curious.

Been Redeemed said...

"So what will be Steve Gaines "footprint" on Bellevue that future generations will have to deal with?"

gopher,
About the same as our current president.....deceived followers who are drunken with pride, intoxicated with power, and foolishly blowing anyway the wind blows, doing what is right in their own eyes...scary though isn't it?
It's an ushering in of the glorious darkness we have read about.

gmommy said...

Why would anyone (blue bloods or whoever) want to get rid of SG now?? The "trouble makers" have left. SG has weathered the scandals and everyone who stayed has settled in to the new BBC church for one reason or another. No one there gives a flip about people who still might feel a sense of loss or sadness.
They are at peace with themselves, their pastor, and the way things are now.
I haven't found "my peace" completely but I hope to. I hope we have all learned SG was just one tiny part of a much bigger problem.
We don't need to "follow" anyone and we already have our shepherd. We sure can't depend on being spoon fed at any church b/c we know how pride and arrogance can twist scripture to meet an agenda that has nothing to do with holiness.
I'm so grateful for my memories of over 20 years at BBC. I miss feeling like I have a predictable "safe" place to go and be with people who care about me. My life is much more lonely now and profoundly changed since I lost my church...which in ways filled the gap of having no extended family.
BUT my eyes are opened to things I could not see before and I can never go backwards. BBC became much bigger than it should have for me. I'm reminded of the old saying...it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all:)
Happy New Year to everyone!!!!

gopher said...

32yrs@bbc said...
Just curious.

Interesting


.

Lydia said...

"So what will be Steve Gaines "footprint" on Bellevue that future generations will have to deal with?"


And that is the whole point. History and tradition mean nothing. The footprint should always be Christ.

Now don't get too upset but let us ask ourselves something: Why give a big expensive chandalier to a church? How does that glorify God? How does carving a fancy pulpit (no where to be found in scripture) elevate Jesus Christ in the hearts of men?

The fancy Cathedrals in Europe are now tourist attractions. They worshiped their fancy buildings instead of God.

Changing the decor is changing the decor whether it is tradition or modernizing. It is meaningless in God's economy. But unfortuantly, it is ingrained in many as important.

Lydia said...

"I hope we have all learned SG was just one tiny part of a much bigger problem."


You nailed it. Following men instead of Christ.

32yrs@bbc said...

gopher, I learned that while Hal K.
was at Germantown Bapt. that he and Dr. Gaines became close friends. The term used was:
"Steve Gaines has taken him under his wing." Maybe he will end up on staff at BBC. Time will tell.

WishIhadknown said...

I finally got a chance to watch the video and frankly found it rather enjoyable.
As I tell my yankee friends, "Y'all are the ones that talk funny not us. Y'all think everyone is a guy."

WishIhadknown said...

Lydia,
I am deeply offended that you choose to change my explanations from something good to something evil! You have to travel a long way to change a word of testimony into a Roman Catholic Icon. Just because you miss the blessing do not try and ruin it for others.
The Roman Catholics teach that baptism is an act of salvation. Are you then going to say not to baptize because they have it wrong?
The Roman Catholics teach that communion is an act of salvation. Are you then not going to observe the Lord’s Supper because they have it wrong?
I and the givers of the gifts in no way imply that you can pray to or around them and have your prayers answered.
Don’t be so ready to see evil where it does not exist that you miss the many blessings God has for us.

WishIhadknown said...

Gmommy
I in no way am implying that SG is going anywhere. Indeed I want him to stay right where he is so that he cannot divide another church the way he has Bellevue and Gardendale and everywhere else he has gone. It’s time for him to stop hurting brothers and sisters the way he has hurt you and me and so many others.
The point I was trying to make is that the vast congregation has no say in the direction of the church, which is one of the things being Baptist is about. The congregation is supposed to run the church not the clergy or a special class of members.
The other thing is when you have such a small group who decides things and sets the agenda; they are notoriously fickle. What they love today; they reject tomorrow. Jamie Parker being a prime example.
We love you and deeply appreciate you and we are not gone; just spread around the city in different congregations.

Lydia said...

I am even worse than you think...I really want to ruin your fun...I think our buildings that we are so in love with are sin traps.

I guess we have different definitions of "gifts".

Don't be offended by me. I am a nobody.

gmommy said...

Hey Wish,
Nothing personal intended.I read the comments and then expressed my feelings. I'm still trying to make sense of the senseless.
I agree with you on your points! Still scratching my head a little about the whole Jamie thing.
I have no idea what the "power brokers" do behind the scenes or how much SG actually orchestrates himself.
BUT...what happened to Jamie makes me think of how unwise "the other woman" is when she marries the cheating husband and expects him to behave differently in their marriage. SG used absolutely no respect, tack, class, courtesy, restraint(on and on) when and how he announced to the church that Jamie would be taking over Jim's position. Why would Jamie (or any of us) be surprised by the way he was treated especially when he saw the SIL moving in and the other players getting in place??
The PW ordeal had not come out yet the Sunday we saw Jim was out and Jamie was in but my gut told me how SG behaved was a picture of who he was.
Grown men being so hell bent on having their way in spite of a closed gate and fence is another example that just speaks volumes of SG's character. (and how quickly "gentlemen" will follow!)
The sad thing is we can read accounts of the same kind of ministers all over the place on a regular basis. Religion, churches, "spiritual authority" have lost their way on a huge scale.
I REALLY want to not see or care but that isn't an option for me. The best I can do is try not to be part of the problem. That's why I have been focusing more on that log in my own eye.
Blessings to you in this new year, Wish!!! So glad you have found a church home!!
I'm grateful this sad situation has inspired many of us to be Bereans!!

WishIhadknown said...

Lydia
You are somebody! You are my sister in Christ and I love you. Just because we disagree does not mean we stop being family.

Lydia said...

You are somebody! You are my sister in Christ and I love you. Just because we disagree does not mean we stop being family.

9:02 AM, January 04, 2010

Thanks! Dittos. Please do not be offended at my opinions.

Here is another one:

Personally, I do not think BBC or most of the entertainment/social clubs/business organizations out there are true Body's of Christ.

I am wondering how we can all read the NT and think otherwise. Is it because of our institutional filter?

cranfill gap said...

did you get my two part message? thanks

New BBC Open Forum said...

cranfill,

Sorry, no. This is the first and only message I've seen from you.

cranfill gap said...

OK - I'll try this again. I have been reading the blog for about two years and there is something I'd like to say. In 1973, there was a Bible study for college students led by Paul Williams. Each week a short message was given and one time even Dr. Rogers came and spoke to us - although not at the meeting I'm about to describe. To this particular meeting I invited a friend and her new husband. Without any warning or previous announcement and in front of a mixed group, Mr. Williams preceded to talk about explicit sexual matters of marriage in unbelievable detail. We were all appalled, I believe and after it was over my friend and her husband fled into their car. I never saw her again in my life and yes, we were close - I was the maid of honor in her wedding. I now believe Mr. Williams was a sexual predator even then - but I believe he kept it a secret from any and all staff members. I think some of you who have written on this blog have been deeply hurt by this man and I think it is time to reveal this heartbreaking episode.

gmommy said...

Cran,
Thanks for sharing yet another glimpse into the sick mind of PW and the way he used his position as a minister while at BBC for his own perverted agenda. I have never heard this particular story but it was before my time at BBC. I'm sure PW has been a sexual deviant for a very long time. It is beyond ignorant that he convinced anyone at all that his perversion showed it's ugly head only towards his son during a 2 year period and then maybe the last 5 years or so before he was forced to confess. He was very confident and experienced at what he did. Preying on others involves many things besides the actual molesting. Predators have lots of ways they cross boundaries and leave people feeling a little uneasy or confused but they aren't quite sure what just happened. He probably saw the college group as a pretty easy audience. I know what he was doing after his little talk to the college kids....the same thing he did after he re victimized so many in his private little minister's office.
Thanks for telling us and I'm sorry you experienced the creep.

New BBC Open Forum said...

cranfill,

Sadly, I've heard similar stories.

I'd recommend for now that anyone who takes the time to compose a comment save a copy of said comment before hitting "Publish." Apparently not everyone's comments are getting through, and if yours does not and you have a copy you can resubmit if necessary.

Junkster said...

Happy New Year, y'all!

WishIhadknown said...

Lydia,
Sorry I started working on an answer to your question when the bunny rabbits came by and distracted me again. So while I'm out chasing rabbits could you give us your answer to the question?
Thanks

Lydia said...

I am wondering how we can all read the NT and think otherwise. Is it because of our institutional filter?

5:38 PM, January 04, 2010

That question?

I have been in church all my life like many SBC'ers. I believed certain things based on what I was always taught. And because of that I read that INTO the Word when I read it.

then years back, I prayed that God would take off my filters and teach me (We are promised the Holy Spirit if we are saved) as I read through the Bible many times. I checked Greek and Hebrew, etc but very few commentaries. I wanted it to be the Holy Spirit teaching me, not men. And I read and read and still do.

I was astounded at how much we are taught that is NOT in scripture at all. I was astounded at how much is twisted from the Word to get the desired result from our leaders who consider themselves professional Christians.

I came to clearly see that most seminary education is a huge waste and even points folks in the wrong direction.

The thing is that the Holy Spirit has been promised to us yet so many of us ignore that. There is a lot we will never understand fully but there is a lot we have been taught that is flat out wrong. Here are a few examples:

1. Chain of command structure in the Body of Christ.

2. Eternal Subordination of the Son as in chain of command in the Trinity for all eternity

3. Tithing in the New Covenant

4. Picking and choosing which laws we are still under ignoring that any law we are under is clearly stated in the NT.

5. Gender roles in the Body of Christ

6. Matthew 18 is almost always taught wrong for a reason.

7. Easy believism and cheap grace are lies from the pit of hell.

And many more....

I realize these things are controversial and do not care to debate them. Let the Holy Spirit teach you! And use many translations but especially the interlinear.

The irony is taht more and more people are studying and as a result are leaving their churches. A book was even written about this showing that it is the serious Christians who are leaving their churches not the nominal ones.

Been Redeemed said...

Having the misfortune of being sick today and not wanting to spread it to the congregation at large, I stayed home, making my couch a pew for the day. Flipping channels sure proved to be a real eye opener regarding the state of the church in this land, especially around Memphis. Very few preachers/teachers/pastors have a handle on the Scriptures. Most are about prosperity, doing what it right in their eyes and how to live the "anointed" life. Very few actually seem to know the Gospel and what it represents, thus reminding me of the term "mama called" (more like “money called”) preachers (oh, and there were actually some "preacherettes" too!
I did note that BBC's preacher was on a fractured soap box, and most of what he said could have made his faithful followers sit up and take note, although I believe some of his declarations were a tad "weak" for his position as senior leader in charge at BBC, not to mention how scattered the man's musings were. However, seeings how I don't watch the man on a regular basis, he may have covered the same topics a while ago with better results and I missed it. I did ponder the ideas that were previously mentioned in this blog about the leadership of the church actually being a handful of powerful men and the idea occurred to me.....at what point will they realize that Gaines has not been as profitable as they feel he should be? When will they find the need to continue control of their empire more important than the "senior pastor" and he will go the way of JP? It was just a fleeting thought, but of all I heard this morning, it was the one that made me actually ponder, that was until I watched Love Worth Finding at 11. I really miss my Pastor/Preacher/Teacher/Friend, but I am thankful he is not around to see the heartache of his flock. I am even more thankful that he left us with a legacy of a man who relied on Jesus and the Word and taught us to do the same. Thank you Lord for the time we had to spend with Your Faithful Servant.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"... oh, and there were actually some 'preacherettes' too!"

I assume you're referring to the person's sex when you use this term, and I don't care if someone else believes women cannot be called to preach, nor do I care to debate the subject here, but I would ask that in the future we refer to female preachers as just that -- female preachers -- or better yet, just preachers. If someone used a racist term to refer to say, a black preacher, there'd be an outcry from many of the same folks who think "preacherette" is an appropriate term for a female preacher.

Unless of course you were referring to watered down theology and not the sex of the preacher. In that case, I concur.

:-)

New BBC Open Forum said...

And let me add, I'm in agreement with Wade Burleson, that women in ministry, teaching men, etc. is a tertiary matter. We can agree to disagree on tertiary matters and not sacrifice fellowship. At least I can. It's when people like SG liken me to "Jezebel" based upon these tertiary differences when we're in agreement on the primary tenets of faith that we have a problem.

Been Redeemed said...

ser·mon (sûrmn)
n.
1. A religious discourse delivered as part of a church service.
2. An often lengthy and tedious speech of reproof or exhortation.


ser·mon·ette
Pronunciation: \ˌsər-mə-ˈnet\
Function: noun
Date: 1814
: a short sermon

preacher [ˈpriːtʃə]
n
1. (Christianity / Protestantism) a person who has the calling and function of preaching the Christian Gospel, esp a Protestant clergyman
2. a person who preaches


Hence "preachorette"...a clergywoman?

No offense intended.

New BBC Open Forum said...

been,

Thanks for the explanation, but by that logic, examples of preacherettes would be Bruce Ware and Russell Moore.

:-D

P.S. Hope you're feeling better.

New BBC Open Forum said...

What Lydia said... amen. We all have our own filters. I just hope we can all realize that sometimes a filter needs to be changed.

New BBC Open Forum said...

The Memphis Passion Play has been cancelled this year. However, the Sportsmen's Extravaganza will proceed as scheduled. Priorities?

New BBC Open Forum said...

I applaud this effort!

Help the People of Haiti

TN Lizzie said...

No Passion Play? Maybe there's no Passion left?

On the other hand, I did notice this (http://www.bellevue.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=66357):

Soul Mate Live
January 29
for young adult couples: married, engaged, as good as married
______________________________

? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? !

just sayin'

gopher said...

Buy a raffle ticket to the Bellevue Sportsmen's Extravaganza for a chance to win a

2009 Arctic Cat 250

MSRP $3,699.00

...sponsored by BASS PRO SHOP's, isn't that the company who has been stringing the citizenry of Memphis along since 2005 about the purchase of the Pyramid?

Maybe they're just waiting until a better piece of property becomes available???

WishIhadknown said...

Sad, Sad, Sad...
This whole Bellevue, Inc. thing makes my stomach turn.
So are gays encouraged to attend the Soul Mate thing after all they may as well be married too.
Fornication is now an acceptable practice with the Bellevue congregation.
Words are not sufficient. Even so come Lord Jesus.

gopher said...

The word from the Peace Keepers in Belleuve is that Mark Blair needs the extra year to revamp the "Passion Play's" replacement.

Since the Passion Play have been the same forever, it is necessary
to find a different way to tell

"THE STORY".

Apparently the numbers for the Passion Play attendance have been dwindling to about 18,000 last year,

whereas the attendance for The Singing Christmas Tree was somewhere around 40,000.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Wish,

I think engaged heterosexual couples are invited. To his credit, SG preaches against fornication and is almost obsessed with preaching against homosexual behavior, but as in any group that size, there's still likely plenty of both those things going on.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Uh... isn't a passion play, by definition, the story of Christ's death, resurrection, and the events immediately leading up to that week? How do you "revamp" that?

If those attendance numbers are correct, then I think one has to look no farther than the bottom line. It's really simple. If the MPP were making money, they wouldn't cancel it.

And if the secular "show" the SCT has become the past few years -- corny "comedy" and teenagers performing dance routines while Mary, Joseph, and Jesus have been relegated to little more than an afterthought -- is resulting in more people coming to Christ than the MPP, then I don't know what else to say other than stick a fork in me 'cause I'm done.

gopher said...

and I thought Bellevue had a

"Long Range Planning Committee"

... oh but they do

....so this delay is "planned" also.

So who is pulling the "puppet" strings on this one?

I mean why aren't the changes ready for "THIS" year???

Mark Blair only does the 9:30 service and the Majesty, and the Singing Christmas Tree while Ryan Wingo does the 11:11 and evening services, so

"...Where's The Beef?"

.

WishIhadknown said...

The ad is:
Married
Engaged
May as well be

32yrs@bbc said...

"And if the secular "show" the SCT has become the past few years -- corny "comedy" and teenagers performing dance routines while Mary, Joseph, and Jesus have been relegated to little more than an afterthought -- is resulting in more people coming to Christ than the MPP, then I don't know what else to say other than stick a fork in me 'cause I'm done."

Well said, NASS, and a hearty
Amen!

I continue to stand amazed at what is happening at Bellevue. Have to hand it to SG and company - give
credit where credit is due. They are pretty much sweeping the place clean of what it once was. The buildings will soon be all that's left of the former church. Anyone clinging to the Bellevue of old needs to let go because it is gone.

Keeps Living It said...

Well folks I think the only reason the SCT had 40K(?) people is because of all the advertising that was done. Does anyone know how much it costs to run TV spots and radio ads? Most of this was not done on Christian radio but local TV and radio stations and I don't those rates.

BTW - 40K is an exaggeration - more like 35K

NASS - would you please consider starting a new thread about the Passion Play? There is a lot of discontent about this at BBC for many of the reasons you've stated.

Keeps Living It said...

gopher -

excellent insight about MB vs RW and their responsibilities.

More on this when there is a new thread.

New BBC Open Forum said...

KLI,

I'm already working on a new thread. I think some are going to be surprised. Or maybe not. Stay tuned.

Lin said...

My former mega cancelled their Easter passion play, too. It had become huge. Tickets were up to 20 bucks. (It started out free)

They had gone from all volunteers in the beginning (18 years ago)to paying the guy playing Jesus about 80,000 grand because he was a professional actor. the animals were costing a ton, too. NOt to mention they had to pay all the video and sound people.

It became Hollywood with hiring Hollywood set designers and special effects guys from Vegas and even building trap doors in the ceilings so 'angels' on wires could float around the Sanctuary.

They went through years of trying to top the previous year.

Why? Isn't the simple truth enough?

32yrs@bbc said...

Anyone remember the Living Pictures? Simple and sacred and low budget.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Anyone remember the Living Pictures? Simple and sacred and low budget."

Oh, but that's sooooo yesterday!

Junkster said...

Next step for church Easter and Christmas productions will be to film them in 3D with actors/singers wearing performance capture technology, using CGI for the sets, scenery, and special effects. Think "Jesus Christ, Avatar".

New BBC Open Forum said...

{groan} Funny!

gopher said...

As the captain will be leaving for the Holy Land, he leaves his Peace Keepers to quell any unrest caused by the cancellation of the Passion Play.

Here's Steve Gaines, making light of Jesus dealing with Judas

New BBC Open Forum said...

gopher,

There's a precedent.

gopher said...

The Leadership at Bellevue is now reverting to Latin to confuse the masses.

They are using the word "HIATUS' on their web site to describe what they are doing with the Passion Play.

Memphis Passion Play Takes One-Year Hiatus


In Latin an hiatus is 'an opening, gaping mouth, or chasm'

Like Where's the Beef?
Steve are you there?

It can also defined as a 'break' or 'interruption' like a Hiatus Hernia.

.

gopher said...

Steve Gaines Facebook page making news...


“Well Hallelujah! We have a conservative senator in Massachusetts! The liberals have awakened the sleeping giant called “normal people.” Marriage is for 1 man & 1 woman; babies are for nurturing, not murdering; govt’ should be little, not gigantic; and free enterprise is better than socialism/communism. Normal people, it’s not too late for America. The Wizard of Oz of liberalism has been exposed!”


Scott Brown is both Pro-choice
and pro-civil union.

Maybe Steve could have said it better without sticking his foot in his mouth.... is that possible?

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Conservative" is a relative term these days.