Monday, January 05, 2009

Belt-tightening should start at the top!



Interesting article by Wade Burleson here.

Is this not the same phenomenon we've seen at Bellevue as well as in big business and government?


108 comments:

TN Lizzie said...

This comment from Wade's blog is sadly appropriate:
___________________________________
"Crowder wrote: We as believers must consider the possibility that the current economic hard times are intended for us by the Lord to show us our gross extravagance. If we can do without it in the tough times, then we as good stewards should ask if we can do without it in the good/normal times."

I happen to agree with this. It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out when mega church pastors have to beat money out of folks to continue in their six figure salaries and pay the light bills on their stadium-like buildings. Preaching on the importance of having great sex is hopefully going to start looking pretty shallow in this new reality.

Lydia

Mon Jan 05, 10:59:00 AM 2009
___________________________________

Methinks that Churches run like businesses should take note of how Fed Ex is handling this dip in the economy.

They may not be a perfect company, but Fred has taken a signifigant reduction in salary. Also, he prefers an across-the-board 5% reduction to letting go any more people than absolutely necessary.

I know a man who was once hired to reduce expenses for a company. He cut perks and excessive costs (switching to e-mails rather than inner-office paper memos by the dozens), etc. Finally, he gave his employer his resignation, saying that his own salary was unnecessary. If the company spent money responsibly, they didn't need to pay him. And he quit.

I wonder where this ex-BBC member is today? :0)

I pray that God will bless Wade. Hireling clergy and seminary uppity-ups get ugly when light is shined on the darkness of their sinful activities. I thank God for all Christians who are working at jobs where God has called them in$tead of the almighty dollar$...

gmommy said...

Of course this is what we see in the major corporation and churches alike....even some small businesses I have worked with.
Look at the Memphis government!!!!
No chance Willie would take less so that others could profit.
Real leadership requires the top dogs would be willing to sacrifice for the greater good.....for others.....to be willing to be last.
JMHO

TN Lizzie said...

Uncle Jay Explains 2008

Turn your speakers on ~ This is pretty funny!

;0)

BkWormGirl said...

I know the movie "Remember the Titans" has been watched by more Baptists on youth trips than we ever care to admit. And many are so worn out on this movie. But I still think the movie has a great line. The two guys are arguing and one says, "Attitude reflects the leadership." Our churches are in great peril, because our leaders have an attitude of entitlement. And I think our communities are also in great peril because of the leadership of the church.

I know very little about Benjamin Hooks. I have heard him speak a time or two and he was ok. I was struck by one of the things he said over the weekend though. He was asked about what he hoped his legacy would be - and he said "I hope people will remember that I always invited them to know the Lord." The rest of the news segment however was on the church he built, and the legacy of "things" he had developed or the advances he had made in the civil rights movement. I couldn't help but wonder was that a reflection of the fact that what he claimed his message to be had not been heard by many. Or was it that as a culture we care about things not people.

Just a stray thought...
BWG

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Speaking of belt-tightening, do y'all know about the CPSIA?

CPSIA is the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act. It's a BAD law.

February 10, 2009 has been dubbed "National Bankruptcy Day."

See: http://nationalbankruptcyday.com/
"February 10, 2009 untold numbers of children's products manufacturers and retailers will be closing their doors."

I wish I was making this up. I have written about it on my blog: http://tnlizzie2000.blogspot.com/

Junkster said...

From Wade's article:
If a Southern Baptist church or institution ever makes the mistake of whittling expenses by firing staff, forcing the early retirement of older employees, and cutting salaries of low end employees while continuing to provide extravagant perks and luxuries for the pastor or president, then trouble for the church or institution looms.

That says it all.



Word verification: ramelf
(Now there's a jolly Christmas message!)

gmommy said...

Hope everyone is doing well and staying warm!!!

I followed a link "Thy Peace" provided on the FBJ site.
I'm not familiar with Christian George but enjoyed reading his blog.
I took the following from his site.
"We are learning that true freedom comes from sacrifice, and obedience is more important than success. The way up is the way down, and darkness shows us Christ more than sunshine does. We are learning that God doesn’t make mistakes. He doesn’t call us to forget us. He doesn’t equip us to discard us."

oc said...

Wait a minute...
If you tighten the belt at the top, won't you strangle?

Is this some kind of veiled threat? :)

oc.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Funny, oc! But no, there's no threat, veiled or otherwise.

oc said...

Oh, ok then. Since it's not a threat, then maybe it's a fashion statement. I'll buy that, sure beats saggin'!

maybejustmaybe said...

Ok, OC ... now you quit preachin' and done gone to meddlin'! Just sayin', bro ...

oc said...

maybejustmaybe,
sorry. :)

PS,
Pull your pants up!

:)
oc.

oc said...

No belts. Ecclesiastes 4:9-10.
It's Biblical. Suspenders rule.

oc.
:)

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Did you hear that Joe the Plumber is in Israel.... reporting the news?
The Jerusalem Post says, "Joe the Plumber is here, and he ain't happy."

If he survives, maybe we could get him to do investigative journalism on clergy abuse or hireling clergy?

Way to go, Joe!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Straight Path/Watchinghissssstory,

Not happening here. Go away!

New BBC Open Forum said...

Wade Burleson writes:

The Bible tells us that true leadership is found through men who are courageous enough to be questioned. Jesus said that real leaders are servants, not masters. The incredible notion that a member of a church should be shunned, persecuted or disciplined for simply asking questions of the pastor has more in common than the cultic practices of Jim Jones than the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Let me be clear. Those kind of pastors - pastors that advocate an authoritianism inherent in the pulpit, that stifle any and all dissent from the members of their congregations, that humiliate and denigrate the members who for the sake of conscience ask questions - could very well be considered great expositors of the Word of God and doctrinally orthodox. Yet those pastors display a character that is the antithesis of the character of Christ, an ironhandedness that is the opposite of genuine grace, and a disposition that should cause their congregations to realize that their pastors are but one step away from falling over the precipice of moral failure in terms of their church ministries or personal lives.

The problem in conservative pulpits of America is not a denial of the Word of God, the problem in conservative pulipits of America is the preacher acts as if his words are the Word of God.


Amen.

diningroomtableforsale said...

During these hard times:

Steve Gaines and Dona are cruising on a ship today with none other than Johnny Hunt and Ken Whitten. It must be nice for Gaines to have a second job making mo $$$$$$$$ to supliment his $500,000 take.

A man has to do what he has to do.

bowtheknee said...

The incredible notion that a member of a church should be shunned, persecuted or disciplined for simply asking questions of the pastor has more in common with the cultic practices of Jim Jones than the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I've been saying this for a long time. The Jim Jones documentary is quite the eye opener if any readers have never watched it. There is some bad language so beware. I really wish everyone in this country would watch that movie for political as well as religious reasons.

In other news, my Bible study apparently is embracing "practicing the presence of God" now that the leadership has gone to its January conference. I was hoping we could put this off a little longer. The group I'm in is a very Bible based group. I don't know why we have to start getting off in a direction that has no biblical support. I "practice His presence" by knowing that I have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I don't know what else these people are looking for....

oc said...

There are some who will try to be a substitute Holy Spirit...and they wish that we would just go ahead and accept the substitute, go along, and make no waves. And we will if we are spiritually lazy.


Just sayin'.
oc.

gopher said...

diningroomtableforsale said...

During these hard times:

Steve Gaines and Dona are cruising on a ship today with none other than Johnny Hunt and Ken Whitten. It must be nice for Gaines to have a second job making mo $$$$$$$$ to supplement his $500,000 take.

A man has to do what he has to do.

Cruise


Cruise


Bible Conference

and also Steve's
upcoming trip to the Middle East

tn_lizzie2000 said...

bowtheknee,
Perhaps your Bible Study group could read Wade Burlison's blog post: January 04, 2009

"Joseph" is "practicing the presence of God," and just might be killed for it. You think your group would be interested in this?

I have no patience with hireling clergy. Yes, Jesus preached from a boat, but those who listened didn't have to pay to get Him to talk.

gmommy said...

What about that Sully!!!!!!
I read a little bio on the courageous cool pilot man and guess what I learned??????
Yes OC...you are correct!

He is a TEXAN!!!!!!!!!

What a man!
Disciplined, detailed, modest, cool tempered,patriotic,smart!!!!!!

SO GLAD everyone on that plane are safe!!!!!
Go Sully!!!!

bowtheknee said...

TN Lizzie - You crack me up!

oc said...

And yeah gmom, he is certainly Texan. :)

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Good Morning to All!

Just sayin'

:0)

bowtheknee and NASS, I'm working on responses to your e-mails... Life has been very busy lately. Sorry!

oc said...

Just a thought.

If I had an album of my life,
there are pictures I would cherish, there are snap shots I would want to throw away...

There are moments I wished never happened, there are people I wish I'd never met.

Yet there are many other times, the other moments, the other people.
There are those who your soul knows to keep close, for they are honest and true.

And that sure makes me smile.

So I think I'll be taking this day to appreciate the ones who make a positive difference in my life. And there are certain ones I need to thank, and just tell them that I'm so glad you were born.

They probably don't even know how they effect me.

And they probably don't even know how special they are to me.

But they moved me.
And they move me still.
And I'm so very glad they were born.

Just sayin'.
oc.

tn_lizzie2000 said...

It is my understanding that the Electoral College Votes were cast on Dec. 15, 2008.

Votes were to be opened and counted on January 8, 2009, according to this: http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/2008/dates.html

Counting Electoral Votes in Congress
Public Law 110-430 changed the date of the electoral vote in Congress in 2009 from January 6 to January 8. This date change is effective only for the 2008 presidential election.
The Congress meets in joint session to count the electoral votes (Congress may pass a law to change the date). The President of the Senate is the presiding officer. If a Senator and a House member jointly submit an objection, each House would retire to its chamber to consider it. The President and Vice President must achieve a majority of electoral votes (270) to be elected. In the absence of a majority, the House selects the President, and the Senate selects the Vice President. If a State submits conflicting sets of electoral votes to Congress, the two Houses acting concurrently may accept or reject the votes. If they do not concur, the votes of the electors certified by the Governor of the State would be counted in Congress.

__________________________________________
Lizzie says:
Um, what happened? Why are there no headlines from Jan. 8th or 9th? What is going on? Why is no one noticing that our media "officially" chose our next President Dec. 15th? Where are the official electoral college votes?
__________________________________________

Electoral College votes to make Barack Obama 44th president(Posted 12/15/2008)

Electoral College Elects Obama As 44th President (December 15, 2008)

Electoral College Votes - It's official: Barack Obama elected 44th president (Dec 15, 2008)

Yahoo News from Associated Press
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081215/ap_on_go_pr_wh/electoral_vote
Published: Dec 15, 2008

Electoral College confirms Obama as US's 44th President (Dec.16, 2008)

Obama Formally Elected as Nation's 44th President (AP - Monday, December 15, 2008)
From this article: "Obama's election will not be complete until Congress tallies the outcome of Monday's Electoral College vote at a joint session scheduled for Jan. 6."
__________________________________________

Something doesn't seem right! Is your house in order?

John Tyler said...

This is my first time to post on the blog but I have followed it for quite sometime. I agree with many things said here. The current thread "Belt-tightening should start at the top!" is absolutely right. Several months ago BBC layed off several employees by my understanding. If you do a little math merely by what has been published the figures are staggering. According to the last Budget that was posted on the Administrative Pastor's page (2007-2008 Budget) the Total Compensation(Salaries, etc) for all departments was $13,402,383. Going by the number of staff shown on BBC's website which is 61 and dividing these 2 numbers, the average compenstion package for the average staff member at BBC is $219,711.19. Laying off employees, putting off needed remodels in church facilities, cutting ministries. What a JOKE! This amount of compensation is ridiculous any way you cut it! At a time when people are losing their homes, retirements are dwindling and the future looks dim for so many, aren't we glad to know the staff at BBC will be nice and warm. What a way to "Love Memphis".

New BBC Open Forum said...

John Tyler,

First of all, welcome. Second, surely you realize Bellevue employs a whole lot more than 61 people! The ones shown on the staff page on the church website are the department heads and a few assistants. The "average" compensation per employee is much less than the figure you quoted.

More than "several" were laid off though. No one seems to know the exact number, but Steve Gaines stood in the pulpit on Love Offering Sunday in November and claimed it was only about 5 or 6. I can personally name more than that who were laid off! Some have quoted a number closer to 80 -- which SG laughed at. I admit I do not know the actual number. The truth is probably somewhere in between. Many were part-time employees and lower-level staff.

BkWormGirl said...

TN Lizzie -
Both CNN and FOX showed the actual declaration by the Senate of his election. (Others may have recorded it as well - but I watched it on both of those channels.)

I do agree that the media announced him the winner LONG before it was certain by actually counting all of the votes. But I do know that both of those networks showed both the electoral college votes and the senate vote. Both claiming that it was such a "historic" moment that the coverage was relevant and necessary.

oc said...

Welcome John Tyler.

You are right.

Loving Memphis! It's easy when one is wallowing in plenty, fat and happy and in control of the checkbook. Then one gets to sit back and pity the poor as they struggle, not being tainted nor touched nor stained by their wretched poverty, yet making lofty proclamations from one's perception coming from a privileged and lofty perch.

Easy to love from there when it's so far away that you can't even smell the stench...

oc.

oc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
New BBC Open Forum said...

One of the laid-off employees was an older lady whose husband is disabled and can't work. Her job was their only source of income besides Social Security. It wouldn't hurt Steve Gaines and David Coombs and some of the others to take a pay cut. Steve could take a big one and still be making a lot more than the average pew warmer.

gmommy said...

I am going to be positive and hopeful for our new President and the people he has appointed.
I don't know what else to do but pray he is wise and does well for our country.

The music for tonight is cool....that's a nice start! :)

oc said...

'I am going to be positive and hopeful for our new President and the people he has appointed.
I don't know what else to do but pray he is wise and does well for our country.'


Go ahead. For me, I'm just waiting for four years to pass quickly. I think you will want that also, and all too soon. Just watch.

oc.

BkWormGirl said...

GMommy -
I agree with you when you said we must pray for him (and his administrative team) to make good decisions. I also feel we must respect his position.

However, lest people think respect is the same as condoning his actions I feel I must be clear. He has made some poor choices in his administration team, choosing people who lack integrity. From my perspective when a person surrounds themselves with people who lack integrity - it is a reflection of their lack of integrity. And that is a concern.

That being said, I know we serve a powerful God who has the power to turn the most stubborn of rulers if He chooses. I pray President Elect Obama will make good choices and will submit to the voice of God.

bowtheknee said...

Don't worry TN Lizzie...I thought maybe you had keeled over from the shock but then again I figured you already knew something was fishy. (email)

gmommy said...

Dear OC,
No way do I want to rush 4 MORE years away.
I already find myself thinking ...if I could JUST go back to 40...I would do so many things differently. Nope...this is where we are and today and tomorrow is what we have to make the most of.
NOW...if I were a young person such as yourself...I may have 4 years to wait out.
just sayin :)

oc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
oc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
oc said...

Right gmommy.
We will see.


But God is still God in all of it.
oc.

gmommy said...

OK...kinda freaky. No one go finding doomsday around the corner...from what I say anyway.

Bono is singing....some people come in the name of Love...
some people come in the name of justifying...
I couldn't understand the next line because someone"harmonized":(
then the chorus is
In the Name of Love...
In the Name of Love...

"At Last"...is being sung for their first dance...because the "words are so appropriate"

"Solid as a Rock" (Ashford and Simpson)has been changed to Solid as Barak...the future looks Hot!

I wish I knew what Barak had done up until now to warrant all this adoration.

People WANT to worship someone.They WANT a hero...when you take the worship from where it belongs...people will worship a sports team, or a president...sometimes even a pastor.

I am NOT saying negative things about our new president...I really feel bad about all of this pressure on one inexperienced man...God help him.


the word is verses

oc said...

O Canada... my home and native land.
True patriot love,
in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts, we see thee rise.
The true North proud and free.
O Canada, O Canada,We stand on guard for thee...

God keep our land,
Glorious and free,

O Canada, We stand on guard for thee.
Oh Canada, We stand on guard for thee.

I think you see what's coming.


oc.

bowtheknee said...

gmommy,

In the Name of Love at least in part has to do with MLK Jr and the Civil Rights movement. I used to sing that song years ago and never paid attention to any of the other words but then one day finally realized - I think at some point he says "free at last."

gmommy said...

Thanks BTK,
I'm clueless.

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Well, BO didn't waste any time!

Support for the LGBT Community

I will not support this agenda, or the man who supports this agenda.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Maybe this will help, Lizzie. Just pin this clock to the corner of your screen.

gopher said...

The hard life of BBC pastor :

to a Bed & Breakfast in Gatlinburg paid by the church,

on a cruise in the Gulf of Mexico,

now off to the Middle East

Please pray for the pastor's bad Knee (he had to take a steroid shot for it ) so he can manage this Holy Land trip.

Jerry Vines will be filling in for him this Sunday
(Extra $$$$ available for a guest speaker?)

Lynn said...

tn_lizzie2000 said...
Well, BO didn't waste any time!

Support for the LGBT Community

I will not support this agenda, or the man who supports this agenda.

9:13 AM, January 21, 2009



OY VEY. Please.....we had 8 years of people doing and having the same bitter attittude towards Bush. It does no good at all to sit here moping and complaining. It does not do any good for this country. As far as I am concerned, I am going to stand behind this president when I can. I will stand opposed to him on certain issues as well. As americans, we have to support the President. If he fails, we all fail. (Disclaimer: This does not mean we should not oppose certain issues that he supports. All I'm saying is that we should still at least respect the position).

tn_lizzie2000 said...

Oy Vey = a Yiddish exclamation of chagrin, dismay, exasperation or pain

May I use this expression myself?
I am neither bitter nor moping; I am dismayed and pained over Obama's website changes just hours after his inaugural oath.

I cannot stand behind this president when he crosses lines that God has drawn. I will stand square in front of him and protect life as long as I have breath.

I have the utmost respect for the position he has been given, but I pray that MUCH of what he is about fails utterly!

I'm praying his policies, that directly defy God, fail. Whatever plans he wants to implement, that defy God, I will pray they fail. To not do so would, to me, be denying God myself.

I'm not about to pray that Obama succeeds in making partial-birth abortion legal.

If he has any ideas about taking us further down a socialist road, I pray they fail.

I will pray that God will change his heart and make him a great leader. I will pray for his safety and that of his family. But don't ask me to pray that his policies succeed - that's just folly.

Is Obama evil? No, he's a sinner. Just like you and me. But his policies, especially about abortion, come from the very pit of hell. And he is a very influential sinner - one man that can not only sway a nation, but its Congress as well.

As much as I am able, I will take a stand on the evil in our country. The plans of our enemy are coming to fruition in our nation - our enemy isn't Obama, it's the devil; he just uses men as tools. He makes them think they have great ideas and uses men to implement them. And it's my prayer that he won't succeed.

Thy Peace said...

A good example of belt tightening starting from the top:

Wade's blog: Kudos to Dr. Chuck Kelley, President of NOBTS

Kelley's plan calls for a 5 percent salary reduction for all faculty and staff members except those who lose medical coverage. The salaries of senior administrators will be reduced by 7 percent. Kelley will receive a 10 percent reduction in salary.

oc said...

"As americans, we have to support the President".

Lynn,
I disagree. I don't have to support a president who does not represent me. And I won't. And I should not be expected to do so just because of his prestigious title. History itself tells us that this kind of logic is at least very dangerous.

And further, if that logic is the correct logic, then why didn't that logic prevail 8 years ago, 6 years ago, 4 years ago, 2 years ago, or even in last November?
Where was the support for the office of the President then?

No, I'm with Lizzie on this. I won't support a man who directly defies God in his policies. No matter how many OY VEY's I get. Because every single day I have to live with myself knowing right from wrong.

oc.

oc said...

Oh, and so to be somewhat topically relevant, look for the hard working to have their taxes raised. It sure won't be happening at the top. The belts that tighten will be ours.

oc.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

--- Dr. Adrian Rogers

oc said...

Well, we've been promised "change". I should be excited about that, because I've been working constantly since 1974 while many others my age haven't, and I've paid for many of them and their kids to do nothing for the last 35 years. And now I'm tired of working and contributing to those who will not help; for I feel I was robbed of what should have gone to my retirement or to my own kids, and it was given to those who won't even bother to rise in the morning.

So if this presidency is indeed about "change", let that happen. Because it's now my turn.

I sure am looking forward to that change.


Yeah right.

oc.

New BBC Open Forum said...

My job recently took me into the "hood" in Memphis on a weekday morning around 11:00. We passed house after rundown house with residents lounging on their porches watching the world go by. Young, black, able-bodied men dressed in hip-hop gear stolled lazily up and down the street while others cruised slowly up and down the street in their cars. Beer cans and heaven only knows what else littered the yards. It was both sad and maddening.

Yes, I realize I'm "racist" for noticing these things, but it is what it is. I guess they're waiting for Obama to mail them their checks.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Go back to that "hood" a year from now and see how much has changed -- not.

gmommy said...

I wish Christians in general could not sound as angry as we tend to sound about issues.

I'm talking to myself as well...I just wish we could find a way to communicate our concerns without sounding like we used to think the Bblog came off.

I sometimes find "secular" people easier to listen to these days.
just sayin....

BkWormGirl said...

I thought I would weigh in on the issues that have been discussed recently here. Not because I really think I am all that special, but just thought I would give my two cents to share dialog.

I do feel that Romans 12 instructs us to respect our leaders. I also think throughout scripture one can see where God encourages His children to work within government whenever possible. However, Daniel is also clear a direct command in opposition is a command that must not be obeyed.

I feel that I need to say that because I respect President Obama - that is not the same as saying I agree with him. To respect his position is not to condone him. I will call him the President of the United States and refrain from calling him other disparaging names. While he is not the person I would have chosen, and he is not what I feel will be a moral leader, he is the elected leader of our nation. He is the leader that God has allowed to be in charge of our country.

The Constitution of this country allows me to express my opinion. Additionally, as American's our Constitution encourages us to contact those representatives who have been elected to govern us. Therefore, while I respect the President, and I will treat him with dignity, I must also disagree with the position he has taken on such issues as abortion and homosexuality.

I have already begun to write letters regarding both of these issues, and I will continue to do so. I will make calls to Nashville, Washington and the White House to express my displeasure with our national separation from the policies of God's word. This is not a new action for me, however, I fear it will be an action that I become much more involved in because I see our leadership making choices contrary to the position that I feel God is clear about.

Along with my rights as a citizen, I will continue to pray for President Obama. I will pray that He will submit to the authority of God. I will pray that he makes choices that will help America. I will pray that Christians will unite and that they will be awakened to what is at stake.

Just my thoughts on this Saturday afternoon...

Blessings to all

New BBC Open Forum said...

stolled = strolled

I'm not so much angry as disgusted. I'm afraid I will be angry come April 15th when I'll have to pay "my fair share" plus that of several of the lazy slobs I observed this week.

I didn't watch the inauguration festivities, but all we've heard since is commentators and people on the street talking about "our first black president." They were interviewing children on one show. One little white girl, all of 8 years old, said, "During all my lifetime [yeah, all 8 years of it] we've had white presidents. [Presidents? There's been ONE president in your lifetime!] I think it's good we have a black president now." Duh. I thought we were supposed to be color-blind. Isn't that the idea? That race doesn't matter? Besides, as much as he'd like to deny it, he's half white. (And anyway, I thought Bill Clinton was our first "black president.")

On a somewhat related note, I think if I hear Blagojevich's "cowboy" story another time I'm going to scream! My mother always said you can't trust someone whose eyes are too close together. I think she may have had a point!

New BBC Open Forum said...

We'd better all get on our knees then. Obama has wasted no time promoting his real agenda.

oc said...

I just wish people wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Christians should never be angry or that they are somehow angry without warrant. We are have feelings too, and we want justice even more than the unbeliever does. That's because we know the God of justice.

I don't think it a sin to be angry at injustice. Even said, sometimes "hurt" comes across as "anger". Of all people, Christians should understand that. And sometimes we get the idea that it seems ok if those other than Christians get "angry" or are allowed to be disappointed or hurt. Being a Christian does not mean we are not allowed to be angry and hurt about injustice.
In fact, quite the opposite.
Do you not think He is angry concerning injustice? Should not His children share His attributes?

That said, I think Christians have plenty of reasons to be angry and hurt.
Figuring out more ways of killing babies is just one of the reasons.
Bowing down and worshipping a mere man like he's the Messiah and counting on him for deliverance from all the ills of society is yet another.
And yes, it certainly is easier to listen to secular people. Because accountability just stops at them.

And I think I'll just stop at that.
For now.
Not angry though. :)
oc.

ezekiel said...

Spurgeon devotional Jan 23, 2009

“I have exalted one chosen out of the people.”
- Psa_89:19
Why was Christ chosen out of the people? Speak, my heart, for heart-thoughts are best. Was it not that he might be able to be our brother, in the blest tie of kindred blood? Oh, what relationship there is between Christ and the believer! The believer can say, “I have a Brother in heaven; I may be poor, but I have a Brother who is rich, and is a King, and will he suffer me to want while he is on his throne? Oh, no! He loves me; he is my Brother.” Believer, wear this blessed thought, like a necklace of diamonds, around the neck of thy memory; put it, as a golden ring, on the finger of recollection, and use it as the King’s own seal, stamping the petitions of thy faith with confidence of success. He is a brother born for adversity, treat him as such.

Christ was also chosen out of the people that he might know our wants and sympathize with us. “He was tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin.” In all our sorrows we have his sympathy. Temptation, pain, disappointment, weakness, weariness, poverty-he knows them all, for he has felt all. Remember this, Christian, and let it comfort thee. However difficult and painful thy road, it is marked by the footsteps of thy Saviour; and even when thou reachest the dark valley of the shadow of death, and the deep waters of the swelling Jordan, thou wilt find his footprints there. In all places whithersoever we go, he has been our forerunner; each burden we have to carry, has once been laid on the shoulders of Immanuel.
“His way was much rougher and darker than mine
Did Christ, my Lord, suffer, and shall I repine?”
Take courage! Royal feet have left a blood-red track upon the road, and consecrated the thorny path for ever.

Isaiah 51-53 is pretty good as well.

ezekiel said...

Spurgeon devotional on Jan 22, 2009

“Doth Job fear God for nought?”
- Job_1:9
This was the wicked question of Satan concerning that upright man of old, but there are many in the present day concerning whom it might be asked with justice, for they love God after a fashion because he prospers them; but if things went ill with them, they would give up all their boasted faith in God. If they can clearly see that since the time of their supposed conversion the world has gone prosperously with them, then they will love God in their poor carnal way; but if they endure adversity, they rebel against the Lord. Their love is the love of the table, not of the host; a love to the cupboard, not to the master of the house. As for the true Christian, he expects to have his reward in the next life, and to endure hardness in this. The promise of the old covenant is adversity. Remember Christ’s words-”Every branch in me that beareth not fruit”-What? “He purgeth it, that it may bring forth fruit.” If you bring forth fruit, you will have to endure affliction. “Alas!” you say, “that is a terrible prospect.” But this affliction works out such precious results, that the Christian who is the subject of it must learn to rejoice in tribulations, because as his tribulations abound, so his consolations abound by Christ Jesus. Rest assured, if you are a child of God, you will be no stranger to the rod. Sooner or later every bar of gold must pass through the fire. Fear not, but rather rejoice that such fruitful times are in store for you, for in them you will be weaned from earth and made meet for heaven; you will be delivered from clinging to the present, and made to long for those eternal things which are so soon to be revealed to you. When you feel that as regards the present you do serve God for nought, you will then rejoice in the infinite reward of the future.

ezekiel said...

Spurgeon devotional Jan 21,2009

“He was sore athirst, and called on the Lord, and said, thou hast given this great deliverance into the hand of thy servant: and now shall I die for thirst?”
- Jdg_15:18

Samson was thirsty and ready to die. The difficulty was totally different from any which the hero had met before. Merely to get thirst assuaged is nothing like so great a matter as to be delivered from a thousand Philistines! but when the thirst was upon him, Samson felt that little present difficulty more weighty than the great past difficulty out of which he had so specially been delivered. It is very usual for God’s people, when they have enjoyed a great deliverance, to find a little trouble too much for them. Samson slays a thousand Philistines, and piles them up in heaps, and then faints for a little water! Jacob wrestles with God at Peniel, and overcomes Omnipotence itself, and then goes “halting on his thigh!” Strange that there must be a shrinking of the sinew whenever we win the day. As if the Lord must teach us our littleness, our nothingness, in order to keep us within bounds. Samson boasted right loudly when he said, “I have slain a thousand men.” His boastful throat soon grew hoarse with thirst, and he betook himself to prayer. God has many ways of humbling his people. Dear child of God, if after great mercy you are laid very low, your case is not an unusual one. When David had mounted the throne of Israel, he said, “I am this day weak, though anointed king.” You must expect to feel weakest when you are enjoying your greatest triumph. If God has wrought for you great deliverances in the past, your present difficulty is only like Samson’s thirst, and the Lord will not let you faint, nor suffer the daughter of the uncircumcised to triumph over you. The road of sorrow is the road to heaven, but there are wells of refreshing water all along the route. So, tried brother, cheer your heart with Samson’s words, and rest assured that God will deliver you ere long.

bowtheknee said...

I agree with OC. There IS such a thing as righteous anger. I'm angry that the majority of Americans were so blindsided as to vote for such a person. We knew he would waste no time on these issues. That is the ONLY reason I voted for McCain. He was the lesser of two evils. God is not just a God of love but also a God of wrath and He will judge perfectly what is going on. Not on our time schedule and maybe not even to our liking but vengeance is His. I'm not running around constantly venting my anger but I am aware of the situation and like BWG said I'll be making phone calls and writing letters or sending emails. It may not matter but I will do it anyway.

BkWormGirl said...

Bowtheknee -
I too am very angry. Both on a spiritual level and on a citizen level. I fear that this president is working quickly and with very little opposition to remove Constitutional rights we used to hold dear. (Such as freedom of speech and individual state's rights.) And he does not care about the Americans who did not vote for him, he has made it clear, he will end the debate on these moral issues. (I think he gives himself FAR too much credit and power - but if people don't start speaking up - he will be correct.) A unifer this man is not.

I also am very angry on the spiritual aspect because of his total disregard for all human life. His position on abortion and homosexuality is mind numbing to me. But I think I am more angry with other "Christians" who are standing by and doing nothing. The lack of response from other Christians is heart breaking. I remember as a child listening to evangelists say they used to cry over America - I could never understand it. I understand it now all too well. Too many people who claim to be Christians voted for this man. As far as I am concerned, their vote for him was evidence of their lack of a relationship with Jesus Christ. I realize that this is not a popular opinion with many but we are called to be fruit inspectors.

Sad indeed. I think there are many ways to express anger. I think people in general are tired of people raging about a topic. And I think in order to be heard, we may need to find a "new" approach to speaking the truth rather than raging. However, I think the "new" approach we need is really to return to what worked decades ago. To know and speak God's word in love to all.

Night all,
BWG

oc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tn_lizzie2000 said...

This is the opening of an article titled :Distracting and Destroying the Middle Class

Obama’s economic advisor Robert Reich, who served as labor secretary under President Clinton, testified before the House Steering and Policy Committee Jan. 7, 2009, on federal funding of infrastructure projects throughout the nation.

Reich said:
"It seems to me that infrastructure spending is a very important and good way of stimulating the economy. The challenge will be to do it quickly, to find projects that can be done that will have a high social return that also can be done with the greatest speed possible. I am concerned, as I'm sure many of you are, that these jobs not simply go to high skilled people who are already professionals or to white male construction workers. I have nothing against white male construction workers I'm just saying there are a lot of other people who have needs as well. There are ways in which the money can be, criteria can be set so the money does go to others, the long term unemployed, minorities, women.

-----------------------------------
Read that to say that there are ways to see to it that money does not go to high skilled people who are currently employed, white men.

=8-O

How can they distract and destroy the Middle Class?
The CPSIA law, which creates unbearable burdens on small businesses and independent producers of products intended for use by children age 12 and younger, is the first step, I am afraid. ANYTHING intended for children is affected: toys, clothes, diapers, furnishings, tubes of toothpaste, books, library books, school supplies... ALL ILLEGAL on Feb. 10, 2009, unless individually labeled as being certified as tested for lead content (and some type of plastic I can't spell...)

So, while this law has a great many people in a tizzy, what else is happening that we are missing?

Come quickly, Lord Jesus!

bowtheknee said...

Rob Mullins is starting a church!!!!

Lwood said...

Rob Mullins is starting a church!!!!

3:33 PM, January 25, 2009

Where,,, when......

32yrs@bbc said...

Rob Mullins: No specifics yet. His last day @GBC is Feb. 13. His letter of resignation says in part:
"We have been approached many times with the idea of a church plant...We will be starting from the ground up and greatly need your prayers...We look forward to being about the same business as you, only in another location."....

New BBC Open Forum said...

I'm happy to hear Rob is being led to start a new church and wish him all the best. (Too bad Steve Gaines didn't feel led to do the same instead of hijacking an existing church.) But I hope people aren't still looking for a king. I've seen it in some of the people who went to places like Faith and Ellendale, and I sense it in the responses of some of the people to this news, not so much here but in other places. I admired Dr. Rogers although I didn't agree with him about some things. I am still saddened at his role in the CR, the BF&M 2000, the Danvers Statement, and his ideas about women in general (e.g. extra-Biblical "roles"). However, he was a good, decent man who positively impacted the world for Christ and I remember him fondly. But he was just a man. He was not the king some people seem to have seen him as, and from what I know of him he would probably have been the first to tell you that. In considering Rob's new ministry, let's all just be careful not to forget the lessons of the recent past. Follow no man!

New BBC Open Forum said...

From GBC's website:

We celebrate another church starting!!!!!

From within G.B.C. the last eight years God has called Mark Erickson, Andy Savage, Wes Richardson, Danny Berryhill, Dana Key and three of our mission interns to help start new churches. This is an answer to our prayers as we seek to connect a lost and dying world to Christ. God is blessing GBC by calling another one of our pastors. Rob and Vickie Mullins have accepted God’s call on their lives to start a new church. Rob’s letter is below.


January 11, 2009

To the GBC Staff and Family,

For these past several years, God has been working in our lives, putting a passion in our hearts to nurture and encourage the flock. We have been approached many times with the idea of a church plant, but we never dreamed that God was calling us to it. Through the prompting and leading of the Holy Spirit and confirmation from God’s Word, this has become a burning desire that we cannot get away from.

It astounded us to learn that there are 6,000 de-churched Southern Baptists in eastern Shelby County alone, plus the many thousands of unchurched. We have a vision for reaching the de-churched, encouraging and equipping them in order to reach the unchurched for Christ in this community, this city, this nation and the world. Therefore I am submitting my resignation effective Feb. 13, 2009 in order to pursue this call that we believe God has made on our lives.

We will be starting from the ground up and greatly need your prayers. Germantown Baptist Church has always shown us great love and tenderness from the days of a fresh-faced young kid who knew nothing to this very day as a not so very fresh-faced middle-aged guy who still knows nothing. Our affection and appreciation is deeper than we can express.

We look forward to being about the same business as you, only in another location. As a great man once said, “God moves his soldiers on the battlefield as He sees fit.” This is not a departure to lament, but a deployment to celebrate.

May God complete His greatest purposes in each of our lives.

Rob and Vicki

New BBC Open Forum said...

"It astounded us to learn that there are 6,000 de-churched Southern Baptists in eastern Shelby County alone.... "

It doesn't astound me at all. With the mass exodus from Bellevue alone over the past three years, Steve Gaines is as much responsible for that as anyone. What I've witnessed over the past 2 1/2 years, both here and in the SBC, has certainly turned me off to the idea of "church."

New BBC Open Forum said...

"From within G.B.C. the last eight years God has called Mark Erickson, Andy Savage, Wes Richardson, Danny Berryhill, Dana Key and three of our mission interns to help start new churches."

Don't know any of those other guys, but Danny Berryhill was recently rejected when a call to be their pastor was issued by the search committee at Forest Hill Baptist. Apparently it had more to do with some members' desire to see their interim pastor called, when that wasn't feasible, than it had anything to do with Mr. Berryhill himself. Glad to hear he's moving past that.

gmommy said...

Does de-churched mean refugees from BBC who blew off finding another church????
I haven't heard that term...unchurched I get.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Does de-churched mean refugees from BBC who blew off finding another church????"

I'm sure that number includes many of that group. Note it says "dechurched Southern Baptists." That would mean they used to be involved in SB churches but aren't now for whatever reason. Many of them are probably still on the membership rolls of SB churches, BBC and others, and the churches have no idea where they are nor do most of them seem to care. I wonder how many of those who left BBC but haven't yet moved their membership have been contacted in any way, say by their SS teachers, since they left. Even BBC claims they cannot locate about 40% of their members. In 2007 when they were claiming over 29,000 members, David Coombs admitted they couldn't find almost 12,000 of them. No doubt some of those have moved, others have died, and many have simply drifted away. Doesn't it seem a bit disingenuous to claim a membership of 29,000 when you can't find nearly half of them? The Wikipedia article on Bellevue claims there are over 30,000 members (huh?), making it the "second largest Southern Baptist church in the United States." The church itself doesn't claim that!

bowtheknee said...

I completely agree with NASS that we should not be following a man. I was excited to hear the news because I know there are thousands of displaced Christians in Shelby and Fayette counties looking for a church where they can focus on worshiping Jesus and not all the rest. I have been waiting for someone to step up to the plate and I think Rob is a wonderful choice for many reasons. One is that he cares about the many "dechurched" as they are being called. Many of these people are just looking for a godly man who cares. They aren't looking to put anyone on a pedestal. I know there were people who put Dr. R on one but I know a lot of people who have been struggling to find a church who did not put Dr. R on a pedestal. No one should put him or anyone else there because no one can live up to that. Another reason Rob is a great choice is because everyone who comes into contact with him seems to love him. He is much loved at GBC and I'm sure there are those who are very sorry to see him go. Youth, college students, young marrieds, singles, older marrieds and seniors love Rob Mullins.

I won't be attending the new church because we finally found a church where we fit in. I have told many people to try out smaller churches. All smaller churches are different so if you try one and don't care for it try another one! I think it is important not to give up. Visiting three churches and giving up is probably not going to get it.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Oh, isn't this precious? Some of the comments are hilarious. When will they turn the oxygen back on?

I, for one, pledge to smile more. :-D

tn_lizzie2000 said...

"All hail The USSA United Socialist States of Amerika."

That is a scary comment!


Odd word verification: moomatch

gmommy said...

OK...I have to admit I laughed (or grimaced) at flushing once, "folkadelphia", and not giving the finger...wow...profound!

I thought it was positive to say "culture of intelligence" and arts and education...the educated are looking less intelligent to me these days anyway. (think some SBC preachers)
It was nice to say American instead of African American.

Demi's curtsy was kinda weird.We know we all need to be more "green". We certainly need to stop drinking bottled water:)(I actually started when I read the book Damaged but not Broken???... I loved that man but his name fails me now...sorry)
I have a new stainless steel water bottle AND pretty red bags to bring to the store (Christmas gifts from kids)...
But the end of that freaked me out! Why don't we put a flag of Obama right there next to the ol Red White and Blue. (sarcasm)

Just goes to show you....when you take God out of God...people ARE going to worship something or somebody.
They are no worse than when we Christians look to a minister to be the last word on God's Word.

I said in an email today how this isn't my platform...so I am shutting up now.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"It was nice to say American instead of African American."

I liked that one, too. Fat chance of that happening though. Most of us are mutts anyway. All this hyphenated stuff is nothing but political correctness run amuck. No one who's looking at skin color seems to stop and think that Obama is half white. Of course, I think he'd rather not admit that unless it somehow benefits him, but the fact is he's still half white.

The part about pledging to be "a servant of the president" was scary. I was in a Walgreens today and noticed a large display of "Obama" gear -- hats, t-shirts, decorative plates -- I've never seen anything like this. Makes me wonder if the conspiracy theorists who've been saying Obama is the anti-Christ aren't onto something after all.

gmommy said...

I missed the statement that TNliz mentioned...where was that?

Enough about the half white thing!!That makes me feel like I am 8 years old again.
It's not about his color in the big picture.
I realize it is important to many people that he isn't a white man. I even understand and respect the hope that gives people. Shoot....I'm excited that some people were color blind in their voting.
It's the blindness to other issues that bugged me. Particularly about his stand on babies born alive after being aborted.

BUT he is the president.
The movie stars are looking for a hero.
Those who experienced or learned about oppression are excited and hopeful.
People want to believe that positive change in the world comes from a leader,a politician, a pastor....
I HOPE just the positive pledges in that video really happen!

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Enough about the half white thing!!"

And enough about the black thing, too. Enough about Obama! Period! He's been in office a week, and I'm so tired of looking at and listening to him, and even worse all the people giddily gushing over him, I could scream. He's going to be the president for the next four or eight years, so we might as well get used to it.

I was just stating a fact that a lot of people seem to have forgotten or want to deny. I have never voted for or against any candidate based on skin color any more than I've voted (or would ever vote) for a candidate based on his or her sex, but a whole lot of people did, many blacks because he's "one of us" and a lot of whites because it was "cool" and they're so "open-minded." (So open-minded, in fact, their brains must have fallen out.) I voted against Obama because I do not support his positions on many issues. Period. McCain would not have been my first choice, but he was by far the lesser of two evils IMO. However, with a Democratic majority in congress, the president is little more than a figurehead anyway.

"I HOPE just the positive pledges in that video really happen!"

What, exactly, has been keeping any of those people from doing any of those things before? What's changed in their lives that suddenly enables them to be able to do those things now? I don't get it. Oh, wait. I think I do get it. Before it was all George Bush's fault. Uh huh. Right.

gmommy said...

Word is the launch date for Rob's church will be sometime in March.
I think the emphasis is going to be no flash...back to the basics.

Native Arkansan said...

There's some crazy dude on Wade's blog blamin' ya'll for writin' lude comments on his blog. I don't see nobody here talkin' about him. I think he's imaginin' thangs.

New BBC Open Forum said...

We're acquainted with that "crazy dude," Arkansan. I don't know of anybody who'd waste his time reading anything he has to say. I've got enough "crazy" in my life without going out looking for more. Thanks.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Arkansan,

Love the profile pic! LOL!

Native Arkansan said...

Thank ya NASS!

tn_lizzie2000 said...

You want macho sauce with that?
January 28, 2009 in National Politics by redhatrob at
http://redhatrob.com/

Alfonzo Rachel of http://www.MachoSauceProductions.com has a new video out. He’s not all that impressed with Aston Kutcher and his “pledge.”

Rachel is one of the many new stars who are contributors to the new site BigHollywood - worth visiting, reading, and adding to your RSS feed.

BkWormGirl said...

Tn Lizzie -
That video has a ton of great information. My favorite phrase, "Keeping people angry about the past - isn't progressive."

SO TRUE! I would NEVER encourage someone to deny the truth of history. But I also would never encourage people to keep anger and hatred alive for one's own political agenda. It is a bad policy for everyone.

bowtheknee said...

Does anyone know why the Jan 18th fill in the blank sermon notes were half filled in for the congregation? The top half has already completed fill in the blanks and the bottom half has blanks for the congregation to fill in. Are the sheep too dumb to fill in the blanks from the screen to the form???

New BBC Open Forum said...

They always fill them in afterwards. If you look back at some of the older ones in the archives they're all filled in. I realize that doesn't explain why one would be only half filled in though. Maybe the blank filler got laid off before s/he could finish.

bent but not broken @ GFBC said...

"MINISTER, MERIDIAN/SENIOR ADULTS
*** oversees Bellevue’s ministry and Bible Fellowship program for meridian and senior adults."

I usually do a staff check at BBC about once per year to see who's no longer there under SG.

Just curious - what are Meridian Adults? Are these 'circular' adults?? I realized from my 2007 staff listing that it was also spelled 'meridian'. I think they mean "Median" - but maybe I'm wrong...

Also, just curious what happened to John Swafford, Director of Finance - how long has he been gone?

How long has David Scott, Minister, Operations, been gone?

What about Todd Gatewood, Minister, Outdoor Recreation?

What about Keny Hatley, Minister, Church Programming?

Just curious...

bent but not broken @ GFBC said...

Dental Ministry—Dentists have “pulled” their plans together for Bellevue’s new dental ministry to Memphis! Bellevue will sponsor a new mobile dental clinic that will minister in various parts of the city to people who cannot afford normal dental care. As physical needs are met, a door will be opened to share the Gospel with patients and their families.

Is it just me or am I just having a bad English day??

Do they mean "pulled" or "pooled"??

tn_lizzie2000 said...

This lengthy article was written in late 2004 by Bob DeWaay. It is interesting reading:

"In this article I will propose that evangelical churches have changed the way they view themselves and their organizations; and that this change has lead to practices and emphases that build large visible churches, but neglect and abuse Christ’s “little flock” (Luke 12:32) -- the true body of Christ."

New BBC Open Forum said...

You should check in more often. :-) David Scott left in April or May last year. Gatewood and Swafford were swept out in the round of layoffs in mid-October. Hatley disappeared from the staff page between June and September.

I've always wondered where they got "meridian" adults. The only dictionary definition I find that could possibly apply is this:

"The highest point or stage of development; peak: 'Men come to their meridian at various periods of their lives' (John Henry Newman)."

I always assumed in the context in which BBC uses it, it applies to middle-aged people. After all, that's when folks usually start to increase around "the meridian." I guess they really do consider that "the peak of development." A lot of older people left in the first wave and more have left since. I'm sure the median age of the membership has dropped in the past 3 1/2 years.

I think they meant "pulled." Neither would be my choice of words, but technically it works.

bowtheknee said...

Crossroads Baptist Church is set to start March 15 at 10:00 AM at Camp Cordova. Rob Mullins is asking for 200 hymnals so it sounds as if things are starting out on the right foot. It will just be a basic church with the emphasis on Jesus and not on any man. Hope some of you who have been out of church awhile will at least check it out.

New BBC Open Forum said...

"Rob Mullins is asking for 200 hymnals...

BBC has a couple thousand they're not using. I say that only halfway in jest. If they really want to ♥ Memphis, why not give all those hymnals that are collecting dust to other churches? Surely there are congregations in this area, existing churches or church plants or missions, which would appreciate and use those hymnals. How about it, BBC?

Dr. Bill Loney said...

check out my circlin buzzards

32yrs@bbc said...

"why not give all those hymnals that are collecting dust to other churches?"

GBC could do the same.:-)

bowtheknee said...

Because they have to keep up pretenses. :) I think hymnals are some kind of status symbol. Let us not forget that Lifeway has just come out with a new hymnal even though the SBC and their minions have done everything they can do to squash the use of them. When I say minions I mean Rick Warren and Dan Southerland the "transitioning" guy. The SBC is full throttle ahead with anything that comes out of those guy's mouths.

32yrs@bbc said...

In many churches, hymnals are now just unused decorative items...sort of like spiritual ambiance.

Thy Peace said...

Off Topic:

Fbc Jax Watchdog blog is going critical.

Fbcjax leadership is pursuing the disciplinary process to extract their pound of flesh.

Fbc Jax Watchdog: Church Discipline - The Process Continues

gopher said...

Meanwhile at BBC,

Steve's still upset about those who "slander" on the internet (last Sunday night sermon)

Bellevue acquires another church - Georgian Hills Baptist Church which is to be the new location for the Frasier Impact Center.

Mark Blair loses 30lbs!

Steve's leg is better after his Holy Land trip!

Stanford Financial Group with a office in Memphis, shut down due to fraud (8.5 Billion),
hope none of Bellevue's cd's were involved

Cakes said...

New poll over at Cakes Report--kisses!

http://thecakesreport.blogspot.com/

gmommy said...

I noticed on Facebook a group called Vue (??) for BBC college kids. Said it was open till midnight most nights. I should have worked on copying it but didn't.
I'm not expressing an opinion just sharing info.