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«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 626 Newer› Newest»Calling The Church to repentance
A sermon from a faithful Baptist Preacher who cares for the flock.
FAITHFUL PREACHER CALLS THE CHURCH TO REPENT
nbbcof..........
The "breaking news" is NOT the fact that the Crystal Cathedral is new age friendly...it is the line up of prominent and well known americans and alleged Christian speakers who will be throwing their full support in with Robert Schuller and his new age dream and re-think conference.
SOTL,
A one, a two, a one two three....
:)
Well, I'm sure the beer drinkin, pot smokin' folks that live on the next street over from me will be at Bellevue tonite with their two little kids. I overheard them talking about going there on July 4th and how much fun they had. Hey - Halloween is even better at BBC than the 4th of July.
Someone posted that Bro Steve was going to be a participant at the dunk tank. Did he forget it's Wednesday nite and he doesn't work on Wednesday nite?
It's a disgusting disgrace.
Word Verification: iryeee
It seems to me I remember reading in the Bible that Jesus was a friend of sinners. He hung around crooked tax collectors and prostitutes. God forbid we have "sinners" on our campus!
Bellevue has been known in the past as a stuck-up, starched-shirt church (re: Gallop poll). I know when I heard this, it broke my heart. This is no reflection on Dr. Rogers, as the "Adrian-worship" that existed (and still exists today) was not what he wanted. It just happened. In addition, the country club mentality was, and is, a problem.
It seems nothing the Bellevue does will please some people. Helping failing schools is a great idea. How are we ever going to be a effective witness if we never leave 2000 Appling or never let "carnies", "sinners" or kids from a inner-city high school onto our campus?
If we have people in our church in need, I know that thousands or dollars are given out each month out of the Benevolence offering to those members in need. There is no excuse for a member to be on food stamps or be unable to pay legitimate bills. There is help if they want it.
Bellevue Loves Memphis puts outward focus from Bellevue. Bellevue has a wonderful global missions program, but we need to be about our Father's business in our Jerusalem.
There is a verse in Todd Agnew's song, My Jesus, that says it all about Bellevue:
Cause my Jesus would never be accepted in my church
The blood and dirt on His feet would stain the carpet
But He reaches for the hurting and despised the proud
I think He'd prefer Beale St. to the stained glass crowd
And I know that He can hear me if I cry out loud
I want to be like my Jesus!
I know for a fact that a man who has since left Bellevue accosted a young man in the parking lot one Sunday morning because he was not dressed "properly". I wept when I was told of this. May God have mercy on us and God forbid that we keep the "sinners" away!
"..but I believe church resources would be more wisely used on our senior adults, single parents, widows and orphans. Not on carnival rides. Priorities are skewed and scripture has been forgotten, or discounted."
-----------------
concernedsbcer,
I couldn't agree more! And it amazes me how many believe the carnival rides are a "wonderful ministry outreach." How sad that the church (and not just BBC) has drifted so far from its moorings.
God's heart must grieve over the carnality and lack of discernment in His blood-bought church.
Lily said:
Well, I'm sure the beer drinkin, pot smokin' folks that live on the next street over from me will be at Bellevue tonite with their two little kids. I overheard them talking about going there on July 4th and how much fun they had. Hey - Halloween is even better at BBC than the 4th of July.
oc says:
Yeah. We want them to like us, don't we? So let us set up a carnival, a golden calf, entertainment to entice some kind of .... worship?
Worship in Spirit and Truth? Not a priority. Romancing the world. That's what a Carnival is about.
Carnival. Carnivorous. Carnal.
Hmmm. A "C" word for flesh. Cannabis. What about a Cannabis booth? Right next to the Corn dogs.
More 'C' work. Let's Compromise our faith. That way we can love the world, and yet look like we love the Lord.
We can waiver in our opinion. We can be lukewarm. We can be PC. We can be attractive to the world. We can win the numbers game.
Let's not confront them with the Gospel that they might be saved. The Blood. That's a 'B' word.
I'm about done now. But I have this to say.
Look like the world, act like the world, and you are the world.
If you are saved, you are in the world, but you aren't of the world.
It shouldn't be hard to see the difference. Even the world should 'C' the difference. But that 'C' should be Christ, nothing else.
Just sayin'.
oc.
"If we have people in our church in need, I know that thousands or dollars are given out each month out of the Benevolence offering to those members in need. There is no excuse for a member to be on food stamps or be unable to pay legitimate bills. There is help if they want it."
Excuse me please.....I KNOW of TWO single moms that asked for help...honest hard working church women...single moms NOT BY THEIR choice.
They had to go thru Mark D. They were humiliated and treated as suspicious because they asked their church for help with REAL bills...no fluff.
It was hard enough to ask.
But MD showed no compassion or respect for these Christian mothers working as hard and long as they could to provide for their children.
BUT when one of the "cool people" that MD was friendly with...had a tragedy in their life...that was covered by insurance...they didn't have to go thru the interagation or humiliation. It was gifted to them with no questions asked....10,000.
I don't fault these people getting support from their church. They are very nice people.
But those women treated like low rent because they found the courage to ASK for help would rather get on food stamps than go thru the degrading experience they went thru at BBC.
BBC doesn't take care of their own...but then it's better PR to take care of the people outside the church family.
BBC may love Memphis...I don't know about the members.
OK; iwtk or whatever your new name is...it is easy for our pastor to be generous with other peoples money. How do the people he is SAVING, FROM FAILURE IN SCHOOL (!) , feel about ECS? MAYBE, ECS could offer minority scholarships instead of pencils and paper! Now that would be a loving, accepting witness, now wouldn't it? Bus them into E.C.S. and give them the Christian education they need. If the city school folks are reading this, you should suggest this to precious, generous Steve Gaines. One more thing---maybe there is hope, in light of his heartfelt concern for the city school folks, that, he will muster up some compassion for his own dying church. THERE is a place his giving spirit would really make a difference.
The blacks in Memphis are educated and religious people and they have beautiful successful churches. We are welcome there, they are welcome with us. Steve Gaines is not the person who rode in with that idea. You can tell he isn't from this area, nor did her go through the city school system as did my family and me. He is a man without a cause and thinks he has found a group that will suck up to him for money. This is a total embarrassment to our church that will blow up in his face. But no one will care.
OC, Just remember please, with all due respect, that the fall party to replace other Halloween functions is a wonderful tradition at Bellevue. As in, the members donated the treats, built the booths, ran the rides/games, and helped our children, and those of the entire neighborhood area, to have a GREAT and SAFE evening of fun, in a Christian atmosphere. BFC's fellowshipped as they made pictures of the kids and filled their bags with candy. WHY COULDN'T SG LEAVE SOMETHING IN TACT? WHY is it so wrong to look forward to this every year? Can't something be left as is? Remember AC Powers running the train? Many churches are preparing for similar church fellowships, that, as does BBC'S, include ALL who wish to attend. Sg is like a 2 year old, MINES! THIS IS MINES CHURCH! SO THIS IS MINES PARTY!
It is getting hard to watch.
stopthemaddness: seems you have some tiff with ECS. I suggest you visit Bryan Miller or start your own anti-ECS blog.
gmommy: We are past the MD days at Bellevue. If these two ladies need help, I suggest they try again.
iwtk: You said "God forbid we have "sinners" on our campus!" Where in the world did you get that idea? I need to remind you that we are ALL sinners. There was only ONE that wasn't, remember? But this is the deal. The MCS teachers, in my understanding, came to BBC. Why couldn't the goodie bags be delivered to the various troubled schools, you know....meet their needs where they are? Why did they have to come to BBC to get them?
And with regard to single parents and those in need.........allow them to keep some semblance of their dignity. SS teachers and friends could recommend them for help. Don't make them crawl for help. That's just so demeaning, and during a time they are already dealing with feelings of failure and embarrassment, more is heaped on. That's not right.
stopthemaddness: What if? What if this does not blow up and God working through Bellevue could make a difference? Would that not be a glorious thing? Take your obvious bittnerness and dis-like of SG out of the picture. The God of the Universe working through people at Bellevue can make a difference. I refuse to believe otherwise.
In response to iwtk's post...
If there was any doubt that Bellevue has gone 'purpose driven' this post from iwtk should dispel that doubt.
As a child of God, one is to witness to a lost soul. The Holy Spirit will interact with that soul. Do you really think that to witness to a drunkard, you must be drunk? Do you really think that to witness to an adulterer, you must commit adultery? Do you really think that to witness to a thief, you must steal? No, no, no. Is it that you have lost faith in God?
Winning lost people to Christ does not constitute entertaining them. This is such an insult to our Holy Father. Winning lost people to Christ does not mean that we have to become worldly to do it...quite the contrary; we lose our witness if we present ourselves as worldly to the lost.
The damage the church growth movement has done to the cause of Christ is untold and astronomical. I shudder to think how many conversions we are seeing today that are not true conversions.
The bigtops need to come down, the ventriloquists need to be silenced, the carnal Christian hard rock concerts need to halt, the entertainment needs to stop. I wonder how much longer God is going to tolerate this heresy.
One more thing that has been been bothering me. When the numbers were up at Bellevue, the nay-sayers were all saying, "it isn't about nubmers, it isn't about numbers". Now that the nubmers are not what they were, it is all about the "dying church". Things that make you go...hum.
There are a lot of good folks who have left, and that is sad. On the other hand, there are some that have left that also have the ability to brighthen up a room by leaving it.
Dr. Roger's legacy is not 2000 Appling Road. His legacy is how he preached the Word of God and how he taught us how to be servants and soul winners. What a wonderful picture of how so many local churches are now benefiting of what they learned at Bellevue over his 32 years. Could it be that this is God's plan?
Ima: Well said. And true.
:)
IW: Wow, do you think it is a threat or a problem with ECS to suggest they let in the city kids? I mean why would that be a problem if it helped them? Why in the world would that common sensical idea get you so angry? You don't have the right to tell me who to contact to ask anything about ECS...I mean is that what it sounded like to you? THAT IF A PERSON suggested the inner city kids receive a chance at a Christian education, they must have a problem with ECS? Wow, so what are YOU then saying, its okay at church but not at school? EXPLAIN why that would blow you away like it did. I am saying it would be easier to do assessments of the potentual of some of the kids, and save them at E.C.S. than to hand money to The City Schools and hope for the best? I wasn't even aware that Steve Gaines was in education? What are his qualifications to lead the Memphis City Schools out of a slump? You know when you come to this blog you are here to stir people up. So you have to be able to take it too. The trouble is our words are in black and white. YOU CAN'T SAY I HAVE A PROBLEM with ECS. THATS CRAZY. As for the numbers, at Bellevue, it is the current leadership that play with numbers. It is really funny to hear it turned around. Who do you think you are to say some people light up a room by leaving it? Since you are bold enough to think that people being run off from their church after decades is GODS PLAN, how about lets hear what you mean about GODS PLAN FOR ...what??? Maybe I can take it in and try to make sense out of it if you will spell it out. And when people spread gossip about men telling men how to dress in the parking lot, pa-leeze. GOSSIP.
AND it is a dying church. That is what is so painful.
ADRIAN WORSHIP = Listenig to a man preach the WORD as if he would burst, never seeing one scandal or one lie out of his leadership. Just showing up and taking notes and tryng to learn all they could.
STEVE WORSHIP = The people closest to him are more concerned with punishing peers than helping Brother Steve adjust in a healthier manner to his sudden fame and fortune. Nobody can say how they would react in his shoes, but, to turn a blind eye to it, is to worship him. It hasn't been best for him. Who will love Brother Steve enough to tell him the truth about what a mess he has created? So he can fix it?
THAT IS STEVE WORSHIP, nobody will tell the Emperor the bad news.
....about ECS and Brian Miller....I DO have a tiff with him.
The one and only time I called him personally
(at the encouragement from another BBC friend) when my children were there,
he had no problem telling me a direct lie.
It was right up there with his stuttering around saying the word homosexual at the bogus business meeting. Never mind that NO ONE in the room had brought that word up at all.
The headmaster obviously didn't care for the way he lied to me since he called me back the very next day to acknowledge the issue I called Briam Miller about.
But these are the people running the "business" at BBC.
And oh yes...lets send the single moms previosly degraded by MD (are we long past MD, really?????)
to the brute himself for some love and compassion.
Talk about denial.
iwtk said:
"This is no reflection on Dr. Rogers, as the "Adrian-worship" that existed (and still exists today) was not what he wanted. It just happened. In addition, the country club mentality was, and is, a problem."
I can't tell you how weary I am of hearing the accusation of "Adrian worship." We had a deep love and respect for the man because he loved and respected us. We felt secure with him because he was a man of integrity and never brought any shame upon his church or his family. We knew he was not perfect nor did we expect him to be. He simply was a man chosen by God to lead His people, and he did it lovingly, graciously and honorably.
As far as the country club image, why do you think Bellevue grew to the size it did? Not because of a cold country club image but because people felt loved and accepted when they walked in the doors. There are many empty seats now because people are dismayed, discouraged and downcast because of all that has transpired the past two years. My family never belonged to a country club nor did anyone I knew during all the years we were there - nor did our pastor. I believe that has changed now.
iwtk said...
"I refuse to believe otherwise"
Even when the Word of God says otherwise regarding the leadings of Steve Gaines?
Sounds like Steve Worship and denial to me!
Wake up folks!
Hey folks...If you think the dress code at BBC is in bad shape now, just wait till the inner city crowd arrives with the baggy pants, boom boxes and the $500.00 sneakers. Oh by the way, this same crowd will really help the offering. If BBC wants to retain this crowd, they will have to serve breakfast and lunch. Also, don't forget metal detectors at all the doors. Way to go BBC.
I think this discussion takes us back to the question - Is the church for sinners or saints?
And lest Billie be reading this, I know we are all sinners!
And we would have to admit that the Baptist tradition is kinda in the middle of the road on this issue. For example, the extended invitations imploring sinners to come to Christ at the end of every service.
I lean more toward the 'equiping the saints' as the purpose of the church. Then the 'saints' live out the reality of the changed life and in that living sinners see the evidence of a changed life and desire to experience the same.
Nothing magic about it. That was the tradition we inherited from the early church.
iwtk said, "...there are some that have left that also have the ability to brighthen up a room by leaving it."
And what if there are those who would say the same of you? And...you are willing to accept with open arms anyone who will come to play at the carnival? Do you really feel you have to entice people to love Jesus? Yet, you see those among you who you feel brighten up a room by leaving it? Your comments really cast a shadow on what Christian love is.
I weep at the condition of the churches...and my deep concern is how many souls are truly saved. The words ring out, "Depart from me...I never knew you." We must be sure that He will recognize us...we must examine our own fruit first.
Eprov said, "Then the 'saints' live out the reality of the changed life and in that living sinners see the evidence of a changed life and desire to experience the same."
Very good! And that is why, Eprov, that the church...the very Body of Christ...will never be effective when it becomes like the world to attract the world. Tell me Eprov...why is that so hard to understand? They just are not getting it. You are going to say the blinders, aren't you?
Eprov: Your 7:55 post is on target. I was thinking the same thing last night. Church is for worship and equipping the believers, then we are to go and make fishers of men. By making the church the sole tool for evangelism, we have done a poor job of equipping the everyman, thus leading to the explosion of false teaching because believers don't know enough to discern false teaching! Church should be a sacred (and safe) place of worship, study, and fellowship among believers. Then as we are equipped, we go out, witness, and as believers are added to the kingdom, they join the church. It seems so logical........
If you look at the history of the growth of BBC, and asked the circumstances surrounding those that were saved and baptized at BBC, they were the ones that were discipled and befriended by the membership, in particular those involved and trained in EE and those active in the dicipleship portion of their Christian walk. Very few people just showed up to an event and received Christ. Of course, Dr Rogers made sure there was a gospel presentation at each and every event the church presented, but that event was not what spurred their attendance. They were invited by a member - a diciple of Christ as trained by the local New Testament Church who grew at the feet of Jesus thru the preaching and teaching of our former GODLY pastors. Men full of integrity and love for the sheep of His pastures...not their own lame ideas...sounds like grasping at worldly straws to me....
ima.....
I think I have probably heard all the rhetoric related to this argument. 'Become all things to all men......' is one of the more prominent.
Truth is when the church becomes mechanical in doing 'things' we have lost.
God is a Spirit. They that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and Truth. Worship is a life lived.
What a thought!
I like Pastor Jack Hayford's thought about public worship that if it is vibrant, alive, loving, powerful, the Word taught, then believer's will be changed and leave with a holy mission that will impact those they live with and work with and the world will know they are 'different.' (not a direct quote but I think his general assertion.)
Sadly most of us go to a worship service and leave the same as when we entered. I don't think that was His plan!
HOW VERY scary, to think that people are believing some of the rhetoric that is being presented! We have all witnessed the fudging of the moving expenses, the credit card bills, country club membership, and pastors OUT OF CONTROL salary, expen$ive dinners we paid for, shopping trip to TEXAS on a Sunday MORNING, THE MILLIONARE CLUB surrounding Pastor Steve...the little get-aways to warm places, $400.00 shoes, etc..etc...THEN along come those who have NO CLUE about any of this and call Bellevue stuffy and badmouth Pastor Rogers for being a dignified person. MAYBE....think about this---MAYBE if Steve could be a little more reserved he might find out what Brother Adrian knew: The more you blab in front of people the more you are opening yourself up to scrutiny in what you are saying. Blah, Blah, blah all the time from the pulpit trying to make people like him is NOT WORKING. I came back to BBC when STEVE CAME! I loved loved him. Sadly, HE CHANGED. When he did, he changed everything aorund him.
AS to Billie Tapp and KWIT person -- You have both decided that God's plan was to destroy Dr. Rogers AND disperse Bellevue. When God wants people to leave Bellevue and spread the word he, doesn't he lead them to? And as far as Adrians death being part of the plan, Pastor Rogers WELCOMED STEVE AND WASHED HIS FEET, before Steve was so tangled inside by this power.
BETTER THINK THIS WAY:We need to be very cautious when becoming spokespersons for God.
AND DECIDE THIS: Did you guys take out the TRASH or send witnesses into the community?
STOPTHEMADNESS said...
"AND it is a dying church. That is what is so painful."
Did anyone pick up the "new" member list this last week. It is only one folded sheet of paper (4 pages) with at least 2 of the new members being "staff" that has joined. Usually this is a 3 sheets of paper list (or 12 pages) .
In regards to the happenings of tonight....
To think of having this carnival for 3 hours on Halloween is just crazy. To the world Bellevue is celebrating Halloween with enthusiasm and excitement. Where's the witness in that.
If they want to do this, do it on another day that does not appear like a celebration of Halloween. Are there not any standards left whatsoever??!!!
"Bellevue L_O_V_E_S Halloween"
"But those women treated like low rent because they found the courage to ASK for help would rather get on food stamps than go thru the degrading experience they went thru at BBC."
It was the EXACT same way at my former mega. How do I know? because folks who worked with this fund talked about those who came in for help. They were treated like scum of the earth. Even to the point of being asked what they did to make their husbands leave them! (The slide toward Patriarchy is alive and well)
There are people out there who try and take advantage but as Christians we should always show Grace and not lump everyone into categories.
"One more thing that has been been bothering me. When the numbers were up at Bellevue, the nay-sayers were all saying, "it isn't about nubmers, it isn't about numbers". Now that the nubmers are not what they were, it is all about the "dying church". Things that make you go...hum."
I agree with this. It is not about 'numbers' at all. What you have to look at is WHO is leaving. If it is those who are dedicated to the truth of scripture, BBC has a huge problem.
WE are told in scripture that the gate is NARROW and few will find it. We are given so many clues in the OT and NT that few are really saved. It should be a wake up call but few pastors even understand it. Few preachers even understand sanctification. They are doing and teaching things that have nothing to do with scripture and are actually leading people AWAY from salvation yet these poor blind people go home thinking...look at all we are doing for Christ!
Did you tell them at the carnival that unless they repent and follow Christ they will perish in hell forever? No. You can't because your pastor is unrepentant. After all, we are all sinners so what is the big deal?
Check out Matthew 7 and Hebrews 10 and 12.
Your best friend is the one who tells you the truth. Who warns. Even if you hate them for it. They show more love to you than your own pastor who loves the things of this world.
There was an incident a little while ago in the BBC Grace parking lot! Evidently some of the staff, deacons, and other leaders were trying out the bumper cars. As I sat in my secret car with my James Bond field glasses and listened in with my super sleuth listening devices, I saw it all unfold…right before my very own eyes!
SG was in the biggest bumper car – it was kind of a modified car, and he was wearing a Burger King crown! If that wasn’t enough, the silly cape he had on was rather…annoying.
Any way, SG was ramming everybody pretty hard in their cars! He ran into MD’s car so hard that it knocked MD AND his car right onto the parking lot!! And…every time ANYBODY came close to hitting SG’s car, DC would throw his whole body in between SG’s car and the oncoming bumper car. AND, JC stood next to the bumper car arena yelling “It was just an itty bitty hit.”
Then…I saw HS, CT, and ST in their matching red bumper cars…trying to hide in one corner of the bumper car arena. They tried to disguise themselves with the funny glasses…with the bushy brows, moustache, and funny nose. While they tried to disguise themselves, their t-shirts gave them away! Yep…let’s just say each had on a t-shirt with a group photo of Curly, Larry, & Mo printed on the front. CT kept insisting that EVERYBODY follow him. When some of the participants wouldn’t follow him, CT finally snapped and jumped out of his bumper car, threw himself down belly first on the floor of the arena, and pounded his fist into the floor crying like a baby. ST showed no sympathy; he just drove around smirking and showing off a smirky grin.
Well…that’s all for now! Got to go get ready for some corn dogs, fiddle sticks, and taffy! Hmmm…actually…I haven’t seen the taffy booth or the turkey leg booths yet. Surely they have not overlooked these!!!
bbc observations:
BBC, I must say...that you are VERY observant!!!
:)
Great mental picture!!
I’ve just heard from somebody that there is livestock at the Bellevue Baptist Carnival. There are sheep, goats, ferrets, llamas, and others. AND, the sheep have already been fleeced!
Speaking of sheep, does anybody know if there will be a booth, section, or area where any sheep-beating will occur tonight?
Oh, wait a minute…BBC doesn’t need a carnival to beat the sheep! SG and the BBC leadership have that down jusssssst fine….
Thank you again BBC Observations for your entertaining sluething.
Hope to see you there. I will be dressed as a sheep with blood splatters. (Do you know how pricey fake blood is?) And, outside of hanging around eating corn dogs, I will always be in line at the dunking booth. (P.S. I will also have on my ankle hoslter.)
On another topic, just what does IWTK stand for? I have tried several things, but nothing fits so far.
Oh well, off to the worldly carnival at the formerly great baptist church.
With repect to Dr Rogers, he has a great and continuing legacy. He was, however a man and a sinner. Dr Rogers had his flaws. I can, on the other hand, testify that he loved the Saviour that he loved the brethern. Dr Rogers truly desired to fulfill the great commission to make desciples not just fill the pews by whatever means necessary. We never had to ask what his salary was because we knew he was taking a fraction of what he was offered and a bigger fraction of what he deserved.
The thing is he is gone and it is really poor taste to malign him.
We here today are concerned with the here and now. The past is filled with fond memories, the present is filled with great trouble, deceit and lies.
"On another topic, just what does IWTK stand for?"
"I worship the king"?
Did everyone receive their "Bellevue Lo♥es Memphis - Love Offering 2007" brochure in the mail today?
An excerpt:
Community Service Teams
Practically every member can be a part of a community service team. The plan is to send out Bellevue service teams to do handiwork missions throughout the Mid-South area. This Bellevue Loves Memphis program will begin as part of our 2007 Love Offering, and continue through the next two years. Our church is full of people who have the desire and are willing to be mobilized when the need is presented. We've seen how God uses these efforts as our teams have worked all across the country.
Our missions endeavors outside of Memphis will continue, but the difference in our nationwide efforts and the new Bellevue service teams is that these teams will focus specifically on the needs of our city. It is easy to see how there are many options for these teams to meet needs in our communities, but the plan is to focus on these four areas the first year:
1. City and County school building repairs, from elementary school playgrounds to high school classroom renovation;
2. Civil servant department repairs and needs for our local paramedic, sanitation, fire, and police stations;
3. Neighborhood renovations for safety and restoration of our children's parks and playgrounds in lower income areas;
4. Practical home help for our disabled senior citizens and building maintenance for assisted care facilities and nursing homes.
Reply: I thought most all of this is what we pay taxes for (a lot of taxes)!
See the "Family Fun Festival"...
Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
Photo 4
Photo 5
View from I-40.
At 6:30 the parking lot appeared to be filled to capacity.
IWTK = I Want To Know
or I Wear Two Kimonos
or Igloos With Ten Kitchens
or Indians Went To Kansas
or Idiot Without True Knowledge
I hear that with the closing of Liberty Land and plans to use that property for other purposes, the Zippin Pippin is looking for a new home.
Just sayin'.
Today, these are the things I can testify to:
A pastor search that was't. From the beginning the focus was on one man and one man only. Did God have another man for the job and man's free will choice intervined?
An inappropriately called special business meeting with only one week advance notice and no diclosure of who we were voting on.
No one revealed that Steve Gaines was coming to "destroy the church." Still waiting on the scripture to justify that.
A leadership so ashamed of the outrageous salary being paid Steve Gaines that they have to refuse to disclose it.
A communications committee reprented by the leadership as giving an opportunity for the members to express their concerns, but the committee started with their conclusions and never took into consideration the concerns expressed to them.
As an aside, I can personally testify to the dishonesty of one of the members of the communications committee. He even stated that our frienship was what was important but I never even received a Christmas card.
The retirement (dismissal) of James Whitmire. Thanks for 30 years of service leave your keys and ID at the front desk and don't let the door hit you on your way out.
A preacher who doesn't know how to handle a clergy man who has sexually assaulted his own minor son but knows how to handle women who wear thier clothes too high, too low or too tight.
Media advertising intended to proselytize other churchs' members.
A loyalty pledge to the leadership when churh membership used to be enough.
Driving long time members away because a loyalty to a single man is more important than the flock.
Worship services that resemble pagan worship services with the expressions of pain on peoples' faces.
Leaders that fear having the truth stated in an uncontrolled forum.
I could go on. Is there anyone to refute my testimony? Show me my error?
Woe to the shepherd who drives away the flock.
Woe means stop.
Therefore we have a biblical mandate to try to stop the lies.
Nass: You are right; that is what our taxes are for. Frankly, I'm surprised the city will allow some of this stuff. BTW.....I thought separation of church and state was the "in" thing.......
So exactly what was the total costs in dollars for the Bellevue Halloween Carnival? And exactly how was God glorified in this?
P.S. Thanks for explaining IWTK, but I think it must require an 'S' on the end - no?
Oh NASS, I like idiot without true knowledge better, then you don't need that 'S' on the end. ;-}
lily wrote:
"Thanks for explaining IWTK, but I think it must require an 'S' on the end - no?"
Why do you think I didn't capitalize "king"?
concernedsbcer said "Frankly, I'm surprised the city will allow some of this stuff."
You are most correct in this assumption. One cannot just march in and do "whatever looks good". One might also assume that the promo material is to get folks to dig a little deeper in the pockets on the front end, knowing that later on the money collected will not be able to be applied to all those things initially listed by SG&Co. In the secular world, this is called false advertising.
When BBC had the fun fest in the gym , we always had it on the weekednd. Is this the first time that BBC had all this on the actual date of Halloween???
lily wrote:
"Oh NASS, I like idiot without true knowledge better, then you don't need that 'S' on the end. ;-}"
Play nice, now!
gmommy said...
When BBC had the fun fest in the gym , we always had it on the weekednd. Is this the first time that BBC had all this on the actual date of Halloween???
Wednesday night church is passe, ya know. So sad for SG that he had to spend time away from the family for a church event. But hey, that dunking booth ... maybe they could set that up in the baptistry ...
Junk: The Zippen Pippen at BBC? Well, it works for me! Do you think that cool Pirate Ship is available too???
Which is more disturbing, a Family Fun Fall Festival or someone sneaking around snapping photographs to put them on the web?????
Kind of creepy to me!
I can hardly believe what I've just read and the photos I've just looked at.....
Did Bellevue actually, really, honestly put up that carnival? I know we have thought it has become a "carnival" but to actually see it happen, and spend money that was squeezed, begged for, and hammered out of the sheep, for joy rides? How CARNAL! To have a carnival!
Is this what the work of the Lord looks like to Bellevue now?
Why should I be surprised, this goes along with the smoke machines Bellevue has purchased to tingle the flesh of those poor "starving for the Word" teens, along with the light show they use to "entertain" their flesh. UNBELIEVABLE!
Do they have a booth that gives out the gospel message? Or, Is Jesus banned from the carnival?
Is this carnival done out of desperation? Isn't it over the top? So, Bellevue has finally become a carnival. It's metamorphous has finally taken place.
Since the world, the flesh and the devil spend big money to celebrate halloween, why should I be so shocked.
Here's the full link to the "Love Offering"
here
Who are the members that are going to volunteer their time to do these in Memphis mission projects??
They are running off the old time volunteers with this "background checks" and "Leadership Oaths" while the new ones who do sign, aren't filling the gap at the commitment level the older members did. Even the Impact Ministry can't get enough "volunteers" to show up when needed.
Anyone see the stolen computer story with all the personal information of medical patients compromised. Blue Line is another small office located in Bartlett, how safe are they???
here
memphis wrote:
"Which is more disturbing, a Family Fun Fall Festival or someone sneaking around snapping photographs to put them on the web?????"
Sneaking? Puhleaze!
Door #1
Someone walking around openly photographing an event at his own church.
Door #2
A three-ring circus in the church parking lot.
Monty, I'll take Door #2!
If the BBC leaders think that you an just show up at a city or county school to work on the building, they are operating in la la land. They would first need the approval of the respective school board, permits, licenses, bonding and most important of all, liability insurance. Sounds like a come on to raise funds for pet projects closer to home.
NBBCOF.....
I didn't think any subterfuge. You were in the back of my pickup with a wad of chewing tobacco in your jaw, sitting in a chair along with our wives, and occasionally standing up to take a picture.
It wasn't difficult at all to fit in!
GOPHER: A couple of people, did not know I go to Bellevue, in my neighborhood. They were talking about Bellevue, and saying this:
"WOW! Bellevue is sure celebrating Halloween! When we came by there, I mean, did you see all that stuff?"
Her friends response: "They sure do more for HALLOWEEN than Easter, don't they just put on a play then..."
The other lady Said: "I hope they can help the neighborhood deal with all those people they are bringing in on Halloween night!"
I kind of bet those 2 aren't the only ones...
memphis said...
"Which is more disturbing, a Family Fun Fall Festival or someone sneaking around snapping photographs to put them on the web?????
Kind of creepy to me!"
I'll tell you what's creepy - 4 adult males climbing over a posted "no trespassing" security fence in order to intimidate 2 children...YA HEAR THAT JOHN CALDWELL!
Nass,
SNEAKING?
OH MY!!!
I can see it now. You flew down from Minnesota,in your private plane, in your black trenchcoat, black hat, and black sunglasses. You ducked into your black limo and had the driver
drive S L O W L Y past BBC so that you could get some contraband photos at the closed event.
SNEAKY SNEAKY SNEAKY...
Don't ya'll have some church carnivals of your own up in Minnesota?
If you can even visualize this at all.....
We drove by our once beautiful Bellevue Baptist Church last night hoping that all the hoopla over a carnival was just talk...As we drove over the parking lot there were the BEAUTIFUL CROSSES with a carnival beneath them.....People partying, screaming and having a blast....God help the people(I can't even call them leaders) of Bellevue Baptist Church...
What next.....Entertainment for Adults......Bingo, Strip Bars, or maybe even Slot machines...Gee....We could make lots of money for Missions....
There was someone from Channel 24 on Rock 103 this morning talking about pastor salaries and their houses (she mentioned the pastor at New Salem, the one at World Overcomers and Steve Gaines). This reporter said none of the preachers would go on camera, but she did say that their homes are in the high end million dollar range. I hope NASS or someone can get a tape of the interview and I assume it will be on Channel 24 sometime soon.
Also, about the Festival, my mouth was wide open in amazement as I drove home yesterday and saw the ostentatious nature of it. Why does BBC need a full blown carnival to show it loves Memphis? Aren't Bible stories and games in the gym good enough anymore? I wonder if the meth-addicted carnies that run the rides were a part of the package?!
Karen
You know...for all of you lovely people who once attended Bellevue and now are alienated from it, but for a time sat under Adrian Rogers and grew and matured under him in the Holy Word of God, it is no wonder that you have been sacrificed whether voluntarily or involuntarily for none of you could have ever sat under this man, Steve Gaines, in what has become an apostate church. This would be trying to mix light with darkness. You simply have no place there anymore. You are the remnant. When I looked at the pictures from the BBC 'campus' and saw the carnival activity, it was very depressing...for what I saw was something that was once so beautiful and holy destroyed to something so ugly, degrading, and demonic.
I pray for all of you, the remnant, that you will find a church...one of Truth. Even if you don't, you are the ones who are blessed.
The Christians cannot take a part in what is happening in the former churches...it would be taking a part in mocking God...in my honest opinion.
I pray those that are left will awaken to Truth. They should not be too proud to humble themselves and admit they were wrong and repent. That never hurts any of us...quite the contrary.
We must remember to pray for these pastors who are so deceived.
stopthemadness,
The "Halloween/Easter" conversation you heard was the most depressing, disheartening thing I've heard yet.
I guess Easter will become a "big thing" too - Easter lillies at the alter and Passion Play are too passe it seems. Sounds like BBC will have to have an Easter Egg hunt on the front lawn now.
Hey, do you think Steve will give a turkey a reprieve from becoming Thanksgiving dinner?
karen
eprov!
You blew my cover!
SOTL,
Not quite. While I did fly down in my private plane, the limo dropped me off a block from BBC where, I am now forced to confess, "eprov" and SG picked me up in "eprov's" pickup truck, and their wives and I sat in the back as we drove around the church grounds. We had a tobacco spitting contest. Mrs. "eprov" and I came in a distant second and third, respectively. :-(
Posted for tn_lizzie2000:
According to the BBC website, the 2007 Love Offering will be spent loving Memphis. Here's their first suggestion (emphasis, mine):
College Student Center
We will take the ministry of Bellevue to the university campuses where our college students face the world every day. We will establish a location where these students feel free to drop by between classes, meet for study groups, and most importantly, a first class facility and platform to present the Gospel. Eighty percent of students who went to church as teens will drop out in their twenties. If we are to reach the upcoming generations, it is clear that we must show them the love of Christ and take the Gospel to them.
The goal is to establish a facility that meets three needs in a college student center:
1. Provide a café area to be a daily meeting place for students to study, check e-mail, or grab coffee and a pastry;
2. Provide our Bellevue students with a place to bring study groups that would open opportunities for small group discipleship;
3. Provide an area for large group worship services and weekly Bible teaching.
Colleges and Universities already have this. It's called the "Baptist Student Union." I know it's at the U of M, because that's where I was saved 18 years ago. Perhaps the BSU would accept a financial donation from BBC, but they are already doing this job. Next?
NASS, next time, instead of flying down in your private Lear, do a marathon drive in your black SUV with the darkened windows and spinning hubcaps, and of course while wearing Pampers so you don't have to stop too often. The energy you will conserve avoiding all those unnecessary pit stops will enable you to have the edge over all those other women, and you'll be propelling those wads of tobacco to points beyond your wildest dreams.
A different subject:
I have been told and have done some research on Faith Baptist where Mrs. A. Rogers is attending. That church is involved in the PDL movement and they also do faith (prayer) walks. There are many negative comments being made that I can not disprove. Maybe you can shed some light on this. According to most people Dr. Rogers was leaned toward that movement and it was he who started the movement in BBC and this area.
WOW MJM - can you say U-G-L-Y!!!!
EVEN FOR YOU!
TN Lizzie: It's still at U of M and it's called BCM (Baptist Collegiate Ministries) now. My son attends. It's led by a fabulous young man. What is it about BBC that thinks they are the only ones who can do something "right"????? Doesn't it seem a bit presumptuous to post this when there is already an organization in place that is supported by Baptist churches all over town?
micah,
I believe it was Mark Dougharty who brought PDL into BBC when Dr. Rogers was away on medical leave a few years ago.
While Dr. Rogers did write an endorsement in RW's PDC book, this was in the early days of the movement, and I hope he had a change of heart as it became apparent what the "purpose" really was.
Unfortunately, Dr. Rogers isn't here to ask, so we'll never know. Speculating about such matters is a waste of time and a moot point.
NASS said:
"Colleges and Universities already have this. It's called the "Baptist Student Union." I know it's at the U of M, because that's where I was saved 18 years ago. Perhaps the BSU would accept a financial donation from BBC, but they are already doing this job. Next?"
=========================
Exactly! It doesn't make sense.
And how (and why!)are they going into city/county schools, fire/police stations, nursing homes, etc. and doing repair and renovations? How can they just go into public bldgs. and paint, etc. I get brain drain just trying to figure it out. Maybe somehow they've gotten a go-ahead. Wish someone in the know would get on here and give some kind of explanation. Millions of tax dollars are going into the school system (and being corrupted)and I know from personal experience the cost of having a loved one in a nursing facility. The nursing homes should certainly be able to afford to keep their bldgs. in good repair. Maybe I just didn't comprehend correctly what I read.
Sometimes I feel like all of this is surreal.
micah,
Not so. If you attend Faith, you will not see a pastor who is PDL, although they do participate in Faith Walk, that is something entirely different and is more akin to the Amaeus Walk rather than a PDL focus and for the record, I don't even like that, but it is NOT PDL.
Dr R did not bring PDL to BBC. It was Larry Ray. He promoted it like no one would have ever dreamed at a time when Dr R was in recovery from his first heart incident. When he came back, Program Administration including David Smith, David Powell, Bryson McQuiston and Randy Redd had approved it under the leadership of our own Mark Dougharty and it was already in the works before he knew what happened. Dr Rogers did not espouse PDL, although he did say that there was some good in the book, but that we were to glean the scriptural and turn away from the rest. If you want to know what he really thought, talk to some people that were close to him (not the one's in charge now!). Call LWF and ask for Bill Skelton or Gene Howard - they were FRIENDS of Dr Rogers, not someone hanging onto his coat tail like SG and others were. Locate Roland Mattox and see what all he has to say about PDL, BBC AND Steve Gaines...if they will talk to you.
If you have proof positive that Faith or Dr R approved PDL or PDC, let's hear it!
micah,
The subject of the Faith Walk was previously discussed on the forum. If you refer to the posts around July 19th you should be able to find them. If you have specific questions about what the Faith Walk is, Brandi Hayes (who's on the board) offered to answer them. Her email is haygoob@gmail.com.
Also, the church growth movement is over 50 years old. PDL is just the latest flavor. The 'most people' who are evidently saying Dr. Rogers brought it to Memphis with him should do a little more research on the subject.
MJM wrote:
"NASS, next time, instead of flying down in your private Lear, do a marathon drive in your black SUV with the darkened windows and spinning hubcaps... "
You must be confusing me with SG. I don't have a black SUV. I have a black limo -- with a driver -- and it doesn't have spinning hubcaps.
"... and of course while wearing Pampers so you don't have to stop too often."
TMI, really! I'll stick with the jet, thank you.
"The energy you will conserve avoiding all those unnecessary pit stops will enable you to have the edge over all those other women, and you'll be propelling those wads of tobacco to points beyond your wildest dreams."
I beg your pardon! "Other" women?
Which reminds me, "eprov"? You may want to check the back of your truck. I seem to recall there were a few "misses" last night -- "duds" if you will -- that fell far short.
Karen said:
Sorry guys, I can't get past some of the creatures on the front lawn of BBC.
Do any of you remember a story from Gardendale, AL that went like this: Donna and Steve walked through after hours and declared certain items -- pieces of furniture, artwork, taxidermy -- as being "possessed" and threw them out, much to the dismay of the warehouse owner and no doubt his victimized employees.
Now we have these guarding the church?
Here's a close-up of one.
Thanks for your help, NASS.
Sorry, Karen, You didn't say anything, did you! I started to comment on your turkey question.
Here's an unedited photo of one in it's "natural" habitat.
Seriously, were these things just there for Halloween, or are they intended to scare away those pesky geese and ducks?
churchmouse,
Does that one appear to be wounded? Maybe one of the sheep fought back.
churchmouse,
You sure have been quiet lateley - get it?! :)
I didn't say that, but I'll take credit for it! :)
I do remember that story about the stuffed turkey buzzard - remember, lilly changed her name because of the story - that was funny!
Mom4 is right - prayer walk in the context that Faith Baptist uses it is walking around the sanctuary (sitting in each seat, praying for the person that will sit there), or the SS rooms, or the nursery, or even walking around the neighborhood that Faith is in. They do that a lot from what I've heard.
From the TN Baptist convention website:
Is there more than one type of Prayerwalking?
Yes, there are several types of Prayerwalking. One is the “House-to-House,” this type involves going from house-to-house and asking for prayer requests and then praying with the people on site. “Strategic,” involves praying from strategic locations within the target area. Examples of “strategic prayerwalking” could include parks, city squares, high points, crossroads, and other high traffic areas. “Key Building” Prayerwalking requires entrance into a building. The prayerwalk is conducted from within the building. Examples of this type of prayerwalking could include schools, churches, government agencies, factories, and businesses. The most common is the “Street” Prayerwalking. This is conducted by walking, driving, or riding through a target area and praying. Many times the emphasis is to pray for everyone on every street of the target area
Yup, he was wounded on his back. The photographer tells me it was disgusting.
He is festering. Oooops. Too much information?
Also, FYI, if you Google "prayer journey" the 1st item that comes up is how to build a prayer labrinyth. Prayer journey is referenced on the BBC website as a use for the new prayer chapel.
just sayin;'
karen
NASS asked,
"Seriously, were these things just there for Halloween, or are they intended to scare away those pesky geese and ducks?"
Reply: NASS, you've got me on that one. I don't know. We can check when we driving by - to see if they are still there.
Larry and Micah,
Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Movement out of Saddleback nor Bill Hybel's Seeker Sensitive Movement out of Willow Creek Association have been around for fifty years. These men probably aren't even that old themselves. And these two movements are the ones that are prevalent today. I don't believe you can find in church history anywhere that the lawns were decorated with a carnival in full swing, or where you would find the pastor dressed as Tarzan swinging from a rope above the heads of the 'audience' (congregation just somehow doesn't fit anymore), or where you would find a scantily clad tranpeze artist adorned with multiple tatoos flying to and fro high above the congregation, or where you might find an Elvis impersonator swiveling his hips to God only knows what, or where you might be entertained by a horn tooting ventriloquist, or be entertained by a hard rock christian group (something wrong with that terminology-there is no such thing). To insinuate that this is nothing new is ridiculous. I would be interested in what church growth movements you are thinking about? Of course, there were those during midevil times...the mystical ones which are found today in the New Age, the Contemplative Spirituality, the Emergent, and on and on. Robert Schuller might be classified as one in which you mention. But as we are seeing the movements today, no...these are for our times, for this culture.
The prayer walks? Well...we have had this discussion. But the PDM and the SSM...this is a new thing. And a church seldom ever admits they are going PD until it is too late to stop it.
churchmouse,
Perhaps he contracted MRSA from the geese:)
That is actually very disgustingly evil looking. But hey, if it keeps the geese away, why not. After all, the ends justify the means nowadays....
KAREN: They really were saying that and more. I felt so liberated, no longer jumping in to defend our church. Can someone tell me PLEASE--was that animal you are showing used at the bellevue fair? I really want to know if they did that. PLEASE. Is that a Halloween gory wounded animal, or are you guys kidding? PLease don't do stuff like that some of us aren't familiar enough to know when you are joking.
I know a man who took his child there, and said there were 2 hour waits, and total chaos. What was the clean up cost? PRAYER WALK--I wonder if someone should GO and find out instead of speculating? FBC has been SO KIND and WARM and the pastor is SO HUMBLE, I HATE it when they are clumped in with PRAYER WALK TALK!
Karen,
Correctamundo, tonight at 10 pm, ABC 24 is having a story on the "pastor's pads" in the area. The station's website has a blurb preview on it right now and they feature the home of Rev. Frank E Ray of New Salem Baptist I think. Steve Gaines' home is not worth THAT much, but who knows, he may included in one of the featured spots since he makes so much more than the average pastor/flock...
If I can get over the wolves on the lawn pictures, I may watch it....
Okay guys.....y'all are really confusing me. I have a BIG check in my spirit when I studied about the Faith Walk. I have no problem with praying for certain people or events. Even Joshua walked around the walls of Jericho for 7 days while praying. But the secrecy, history and repetition that I read about concerning Emmaus Walk and Faith Walk made me very uneasy.
All this talk about "prayer walks" (and the various flavors thereof) and "prayer journeys" and "Faith Walk" and prayer chapels and labyrinths... aaaaaaaarrrgh!!!
Why do we have to have some "gimmick" to pray today?
mom4,
I called the radio station this morning to thank them for talking about this topic and the radio guy said something about Dr. Rogers and LWF - and I let him know that LWF is a whole separate thing. Then he said, "well when I watch Dr. Rogers on TV, I see the same people in the choir that I see when I watch Steve Gaines." Then I said, "NOT ANYMORE!" I about laughed myself silly on the way to work about that one. Can't wait to see the report
NBBOF - 35 MINUTE WAIT last night - you know what I'm talking about! :)
All I know is that today's LWF devotional talks about getting in your prayer closet and Dr. Rogers explains that means getting away from your daily life and focusing on praying. Doesn't mean you have to get in a closet - like the movie "Carrie" - but you should pray in a place where you won't be disturbed and you can really focus. I see nothing in scripture about a plan, or formula or gimmick for prayer. Just pray!
karen
About Faith Walk. Read the history. Where do you think that reference to "Bartlett, TN" is referring to? A couple of people who've participated told me some more things about it that definitely raised my antennae. I was asked by one not to divulge certain aspects of it so as not to spoil it for new participants, so I will respect that request.
If you're into that sort of thing and it's been a blessing to you, that's great. I just don't get it. I went on a couple of church "retreats" as a teenager and never did appreciate the experience. As an adult, I'm not about to spend a weekend bunking with a bunch of strangers -- and paying $120 for the privilege.
I have misspoken - I didn't realize "Faith Walk" at Faith Baptist was a weekend thing - so I will not speak about it anymore since I do not know anything about it. Sorry for the confusion on my part.
karen
Wow, Karen. Was it worth the wait?
On a different subject, we didn't have any trick-or-treaters in MN last night. I guess they all went to BBC for the festival.
"The goal is to establish a facility that meets three needs in a college student center:
1. Provide a café area to be a daily meeting place for students to study, check e-mail, or grab coffee and a pastry;
2. Provide our Bellevue students with a place to bring study groups that would open opportunities for small group discipleship;
3. Provide an area for large group worship services and weekly Bible teaching."
Who is going to minister to the college students regularly during the week some where downtown?
When they can't even get up early enough to minister to the college students at 8:00 and 9:30 Sunday mornings for 3 hours at Bellevue Baptist church.
here
BBC is watching as the pictures of Rob Mullins and Josh Manning have disappeared. But the old pictures of the full assembly room under the leadership of Rob Mullins are still there.
Concerned,
I guess I need to brush up on it some more. Other than the labyrinth (which is mystic and new age to say the least), to me the faith or prayer walk is just walking the area and praying for the people who are there or who will be there. If there is more to it, then I am clueless. I pray for people I pass in the car on my way to and fro..I guess I could call that a Prayer Ride:) - seriously, I think it is somewhat like astrology. The Lord hung the stars in the heavens for our enjoyment and benefit and the devil corrupted our thoughts about them...God looks at the intents of OUR hearts and that is what it is all about...to me anyway; however, if it appears to be evil, we should abstain...regardless of how we see it. I'll check into it further, thanks!
NBBCOF said, "...and paying $120 for the privilege."
You got to be kidding me! Well, I suspect I'll just get in my closet like the Word says to say my prayers. God never said anything about the cost, did He? Or did He?
A good friend on mine says it is all about the money. He may well have a point.
And it is like NBBCOF said, "Why do we have to have some "gimmick" to pray today?" I couldn't agree more! God certainly didn't make it complicated! Man has made it complicated!!!
ima,
No kidding. It's clearly stated on the "Registration to Attend," the last link on the "Faith Walk" page in my 4:03 p.m. comment.
We weren't kidding about the wolves in front of the church either. Those were actual, unedited photos.
Ima, Hundreds of years ago, they did not need a church growth movement because attending church was mandatory in both the Catholic and Protestant churches in Europe. If you did not attend, the magistrate came looking for you!
Which is why the Danbury Baptists wrote Thomas Jefferson that letter which has been twisted to this day!
What we know today as the CGM came mainly out of Fuller Seminary. Ian Murry describes the chronology of this movement in his book Evangelicalism Divided.
Here is a synopsis
Church Growth began with the publication of Donald McGavran's book "The Bridges of God." McGavran was a third generation Christian missionary to India, where his observations of "How Churches Grow" went beyond typical theological discussion to discern sociological factors that affected receptivity to the Christian Gospel among non-Christian peoples. In 1965, he organized the School of World Mission at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California, which was the institutional homebase for Church Growth studies until after his death, and has been the training ground for tens of thousands of pastors and missionaries of of one hundred mainly Evangelical denominations
Rick Warren is about 50 but went to Fuller.
Robert Schuller started his california church in 1955 in a drive in movie theatre where people came and stayed in their cars to hear the sermon. (If you can call them that...more like motivational talks)
Oh, I forgot to say that when Gavran put the focus on the sociological factors in the receptivity of the Gospel... he took the focus off God and put it on man.
We do not even see the huge paradigm shift that occured with this thinking. Man increased. God decreased.
Was the question ever asked. "Why do sociological factors matter? The Gospel is the Gospel and the Holy Spirit opens hearts.
And you know the rest of the story of the outcome of this popular movement.
lin...thanks.
On Robert Schuller, I'll have to 're-think' that one! :) You have heard about the Rethink Convention at Crystal Cathedral haven't you? Rupert Murdoch is going to be a guest speaker...now, isn't that a hoot! The pornagraphic anti-christian is going to be a guest speaker! And of course, you will remember that Rick Warren is his pastor!!! Oh my! Could it get any worse? And then not to mention, Larry King is a guest speaker too. Erwin McManus. The list goes on.
NASS, I had a grand total of 3 kiddos come to the house last night - My office mates cursed under their collective breath when I brought in the leftover Tootsie Rolls.
Question: When did BBC start sponsoring the "ticker" at the bottom of the screen during Action News 5? Just wondering....
Question: Is that wolf statue thing for real? That is so gross! The festering wound/gunshot wound is just icky! Does it stay out there all the time? BBC has that nasty thing out on the lawn, but requested that there be "no scary costumes" at the Festival? BLECH!
Mom4,
I saw the preview of "Preacher Pads" on Channel 24 - should be interesting at 10 pm!
karen
New BBC Open Forum said...
We weren't kidding about the wolves in front of the church either. Those were actual, unedited photos.
4:30 PM, November 01, 2007
Hoooooooooowlllll...Werevolves of Bellevue....
Hooooooooowlllll...werewolves of Bellevue....
Stop said:
Can someone tell me PLEASE--was that animal you are showing used at the bellevue fair? I really want to know if they did that. PLEASE. Is that a Halloween gory wounded animal, or are you guys kidding? PLease don't do stuff like that some of us aren't familiar enough to know when you are joking
Reply: Sorry about that. A family member was driving through the BBC
parking lot last night and saw the statuary on the front lawn. It was unclear whether or not this was part of the decoration for the festival. There were other "animals", but most were on the other side of the church. One does look wounded. Its back is broken and the filler appears to be oozing out. The wolves are still there, and the carnival is gone. I guess that means they were not a part of the festivities. ???
Well I knew that the guys at pastors.com talked about
shooting the wolves. I suppose Bellevue is joining ranks. Takes one to know one they say. :(
Snakes AND wolves...
WARNING!!!!!
Karen is right...
the ad for tonights program on the wealthy lives of ministers looks interesting...
wonder if they will show a shot of PP's doggie grave headstone?
I was told the wolves were to scare away the geese. Hmmmmmm...as usual, their timing to coincide with Halloween is less than impeccable. But...since SG came, wisdom has vanished! To be a "house of prayer", it looks like they would pray over SOMETHING before they did it....
I believe the mystery of the BBC "lawn wolves" may be solved. I'm guessing all those geese might have been leaving their little calling cards on the front lawn, so the wolves are designed to scare them away. Like these.
By dawn's early light we see them:
Photo 1
Photo 2
Photo 3
Now, if they're supposed to be scaring away the moles (or other tunneling creatures), from the looks of that last one (they named her "Eileen"), it's not working out too well!
Oooh, then I guessed right!
I am curious...did Steve get dunked last evening?
imaresistor said...
I am curious...did Steve get dunked last evening?
7:49 PM, November 01, 2007
I heard both he and Donna got dunked.
SG's house is mentioned in Channel 24's "Preacher Pads" report.
On Channel 30 now or Channel 24 at 10:00.
gopher,
Your 4:09 post linked the bbc pictures.
What is that guy doing with the two girls in pink? It's a wierd picture to say the least that doesn't look too good.
nathanb,
I wondered exactly the same thing!
Huh?
We must ve very very close...
The new age movement is finally going to strut its stuff in a movie entitled THE SHIFT ...scheduled release Spring 2008
Here is a clip of the movie trailer with all the usual suspects....
Maranatha
THE SHIFT
nathanb,
It looks to me like he's praying with the girls in a very public place.
What does it look like to you? And let's stay on the high road, please.
NASS said:
nathanb,
I wondered exactly the same thing!
Huh?
oc says:
Hmmm. Yeah, I'm saying it. Are we sure they are prayin'? And for what?
Let's all guess.
Maybe it's a good way to build numbers for a youth ministry. Get the whole unsaved neighborhood lusting to come to church for the wrong reasons. Purpose Driven?
What is wrong with this picture?
Just sayin'.
oc.
watchman said...
We must ve very very close...
The new age movement is finally going to strut its stuff in a movie entitled THE SHIFT ...scheduled release Spring 2008
Here is a clip of the movie trailer with all the usual suspects....
Maranatha
THE SHIFT
9:49 PM, November 01, 2007
Watchman...this isn't new age...this is flatout Marxism. The Shift + Law of the Sea Treaty + Bush fighting Texas over an illegal on deathrow for the killing of two people = Goodbye US Soverignty
New BBC Open Forum said...
nathanb,
I wondered exactly the same thing!
Huh?
9:38 PM, November 01, 2007
It starts with "prayer walks" ...
moves on to "prayer hugs" ...
next thing ya know ...
"prayer dancing"!!!
Prayer walk:
During the election of 2000, several friends and I left in our vehicles to drive to south memphis and we prayed at as many precincts as we could in about 4 or 5 hours. We went from one to the other. We sat in our car and held hands and prayed for our nation at each voting precinct.
Was what we were doing mystical and new age? I didn't think so, and I still don't. I never even heard of mystical or new age..well, i might have heard of new age, but I never paid any attention to it and didn't know what it was/is.
We were just praying for America.
Anyone is going to have a difficult time convincing me that what we were doing was wrong.
AFTER ALL........... WE won, didnt' we? :)
Larry wrote:
"What does it look like to you?"
At the risk of veering off the high road, it looks to me like the young man has his hands full.
Nathan,
Don't say what it looks like...
Larry wants you to take the high road.
Channel 24 News "Preacher Pads" Story:
here
Bellevue's Pastor:
08/18/2005 Purchase $548,000.00 by John S Gaines
08/18/2005 Mort $ 359,650.00 REGIONS BANK REGIONS MORTGAGE
09/12/2005 Mort $ 100,000.00 REGIONS BANK
SOTL: I don't think that was wrong at all. I do see a difference.
I'm glad you did that....and that we won! ;)
New BBC Open Forum said...
"All this talk about "prayer walks" (and the various flavors thereof) and "prayer journeys" and "Faith Walk" and prayer chapels and labyrinths... aaaaaaaarrrgh!!!
Why do we have to have some "gimmick" to pray today?"
To prepare the blinded sheep to accept those Marian apparitions that will be appearing. And they WILL be appearing before it's all over.
Mary
gopher,
I didn't know about the $100,000 line of credit (or whatever that loan is)
BUT I did think it interesting that SG and JP had the exact same "odd" loan amounts on their houses.
Guess that had something to do with their beneifit package from BBC.
Mary,
What does that mean...I'm not familiar with that.
gmommy,
Visions of the Virgin Mary.
NASS,
See, the wolves have come to Bellevue! I find the choice of a wolf to scare away anything VERY IRONIC and totally telling. You know how they say "you are what you eat"? How about "you are what you put in the yard"? Some prankster should put a flock of sheep out there for comic relief.
Gopher,
Will you please email me? I have a question.
Thanks!
You guys, something has been on my mind lately. You know, our country had "9-11", and nothing has been quite the same since. Our lives go on as before, in a sense, but we know that could change at any moment. We must be constantly on our guard.
Bellevue had her own "9-11" when the Lord took Dr. Rogers home. Just as our country's "9-11" wasn't just a problem with the Twin Towers, our Bellevue's "9-11" was not just a problem with our own church. There are powerful forces at work.
In either instance, we can't go back to where we were before. Many are trying, but the results would be catastrophic.
I have to share with you my a nugget from my Bible study in Acts, which has been such an encouragement to me. In chapter 8, persecution scatters the believers in Jerusalem. What did they do? Verse 4 says "they were scattered abroad and went everywhere preaching the Word."
If you will read John 15:18-16:4, you will be blessed by what it says there. I PROMISE you will. Note verse 16:4 tells us that Jesus warned the diciples of what was to come. He wanted to prepare them.
Back during Bellevue's "Glory Days", Dr. Rogers used to quote part of Acts 12:48: "unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required." We would look at each other and ask with trepidation, "what will He require of us?"
Now we are beginning to see. God allowed Dr. Rogers to prepare many people for today. Now, it is up to us. God help us.
churchmouse,
9/11/05 was Steve's 1st day in the pulpit - coincidence or providence?
God leaves nothing to chance - if 9/11/01 is deemed as a bad day in Amercian history, there is no way 9/11/05 will not be viewed (if it's not already) as a bad day in Bellevue history.
karen
Churchmouse said, "Now, it is up to us."
You really can't get any clearer than this.
I don't think comparing the day Gaines started as pastor at Bellevue to 9/11 is appropriate. While what Gaines has done is reprehensible, its irrelevant compared to 9/11 where people were actually killed.
Gmommy and NASS,
You both have mail.
M~
From Adrianisms Part I...
"I can preach TRUTH but only the Holy Spirit can impart TRUTH"
When BBC as she is now realizes this, then repentance and restoration will begin...it ain't about Steve Gaines....it ain't about change....It's about TRUTH!
A few interesting comments about King Stevie on the Speakup Memphis blog.
http://community.myeyewitnessnews.com/
You know you are in the end days when there is talk of "pimping preachers and their cribs".
What station was that story originally on? I'd like to catch the video of it.
Channel 24. The link for the video is on that page, and the comments are here.
Nass: Thanks for the link, Wow........I had no idea. I don't think pastors should live in squalor, but I think they should be in line with their median members. JMHO
NASS said:
I believe the mystery of the BBC "lawn wolves" may be solved.
NASS, did you get permission from BBC to post photos of the new ministers on staff?
Be nice!
It was a cheap shot and I apologize. I just couldn't help thinking of certain passages.
Matt. 7:15
Acts 20:29-31
It's actually the old wolves one needs to be careful of.
LWF Devotion for today:
Do you know what Napoleon said about China? “There lies a sleeping giant, and let him sleep, because if he awakens, he will shake the world.” I believe the devil says that about the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. And I believe the church is just that, a sleeping giant. We’re asleep because we have been chloroformed by the spirit of this age. We’re bombarded on every side by all kinds of amusement. Do you know what amuse means? It’s a combination of two words. Muse means to think, and the alpha prefix in front of it means not to. We are a generation that is amusing ourselves into oblivion. And it’s time to wake up!
Thanks for sharing that timely devotion!
Neil Postman's book Amusing Ourselves to Death is a full treatise on that observation.
All2Jesus: Technopoly by the same author is worth the read too.
I saw the re-done Bellevue east entrance sign today. Much, much better than the original. If I had a picture, I'd post it.
Junk: I saw it yesterday. You are right....MUCH better.
But did it really cost $75,ooo?????
Why didn't the sign designer know it would look so tacky the other way??
What was the original cost??
Does DC's brother do the signs at BBC??????
just askin.....
I've been outed!!!
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/ailing-bear-or-bigfoot/20070716154409990001
William T. Loney, MD
Dr. Loney! How wonderful to see you are alive and well! You see, we had all been concerned that you had succumbed to the effects of your lighting system at the old Dairy Queen or to a mob of young ladies during your nightly jog. And now to find out you have been camping all along!
We have found you just in time! Our dear GMommy needs a cankle intervention immediately. I understand she is willing to pay you in kind with Spam, hair gel, and new tires for your car! (Well, okay, she found the tired on the side of the road....but they still look pretty good!)
Now that you have been outed, will you be returning to your comfortable and luxurious garage apartment? I need to know when to drop off GMommy...........
Dr Loney,
I thought as I typed in that long aol web address to see your "coming out" picture that the next thing you would write would be..."made you look"!!
But!!...there was a pretty strange looking... uh...creature there to see.
I can't see that thing typing on a laptop in a fed ex box or some of the other strange places you have been trapped in!!!!
BUT DR LONEY!!!!!! WE HAVE MISSED YOU!!!! Don't leave us so long next time!!!! PLEASE!!!!
Without you bringing your special brand of cheer here...things can get a little depressing sometimes!
I hope whatever kept you so busy and away from your blog friends for so long is over now!!!
I've seen all the doctors in town with good reputations but am still passing out when I least expect it.
I was thinking maybe I should get your advise now!!
So you need to stick around for a while!!!
Dr. Loney,
Your e-mail address doesn't work! Gmommy needs your professional services!
That's right, Nass, and the rest of us need his special way of looking at the world.....
So, Dr. Loney......can you help our sweet GMommy?
Dr. Looney,
And if not your professional services...definitely some cheering up.
Do you suppose Dr. Loney has found another blog? =(
I understand he did -- a few weeks ago -- but apparently he didn't get a very warm reception there.
(gasp) Oh, my!
He might have given more thought to going to New England. (Isn't that where his photo was snapped?)
Those folks can be rather...well, you know....
I know, 'mouse. Hard to believe, isn't it? Poor creature's suffered enough without that.
What a wonderful sermon I heard today. The text - Matthew 16:13-19, the title - The Lite Church, Great Taste, Less Faithful. The focus turned to the importance of church discipline. A portion of the 23 Psalm was brought into the sermon, one which I had always glossed over - Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. The rod being church discipline - as we are directed by Matthew 18 and the blessing of discipline - even though uncomfortable. Also, the severe consequences for a lack of repentance. It was a message that needs to be brought and practiced in all our churches today. It also saddened me as I thought of the contempt that the BBC leaders have of this clear method of discipline provided to simply in the Word. It is difficult for me to ask that God have mercy on them.
Fox News Network showed his photo. They said their best guess was that he was not Bigfoot, but was probably a bear with the mange.
OUCH!
Sounds like he might have put on some weight.
Its all that Spam.
"They said their best guess was that he was not Bigfoot, but was probably a bear with the mange."
Did they mention his vestigial tail(s)?
Praise God for a beautiful fall day!!
Dr. Loney said:
"I've been outed!!!
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/ailing-bear-or-bigfoot/20070716154409990001"
Reply:
NASS, that photo doesn't show a tail...nor is one (or two) mentioned in the story line. I hope he hasn't been in an accident.
For anyone who is interested, the FBC Jax blog's current thread is about the "Preacher's Pad" story done this week here. There is some good discussion there as well.
Speaking of that story, they're repeating it at 9:00 p.m. on Channel 30 tomorrow. You can read the article and watch the video here.
On a website I check on every now and then, Sowing Seeds of Faith, I found this and thought you might find it interesting.....
"Tap-tap-tap -- tap-tap: annoying sounds? No! They are part of a secret code used by prisoners at the Hanoi Hilton prisoner of war camp during the Vietnam War. The tapping was part of a vital communication link with each other. Without this communication prisoners would slowly lose their will to live. "Little by little," Captain Eugene 'Red' McDaniel wrote in his book, Scars and Stripes, "prisoners would deteriorate as that strange predator; isolation would suck the very life out of them."
Last week we learned that worship is our vital communication with God. Without worship, the spiritual part of us will begin to draw inward, deteriorate and die. Now -- how should we worship?
Hundreds of ministers throughout Virginia gathered together for a conference about worship. We came with more questions than answers. What is good worship? What is our role as ministers? Should worship be contemporary with modern music and drama or should we focus on preserving the traditions of our past? With so many churches declining, it's critical that we discover new answers.
The conference fittingly opened with worship and Bishop Joe E. Pennel, Jr., our main speaker read scripture before beginning his message. Here is an excerpt:
Just then there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, "What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth?" But Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be silent, and come out of him!" And the unclean spirit, convulsing him and crying with a loud voice, came out of him. They were all amazed, and they kept on asking one another, "What is this? A new teaching-with authority! He commands even the unclean spirits, and they obey him." (Parts of Mark 1:23-27)
After a pause, Bishop Pennel said, "The presence of Christ always stirs up unclean spirits. Worship centered in Christ will bother the unclean spirit. Worship will condemn the unclean spirit." In other words, worship encompasses so much more than the words contemporary or traditional can adequately describe. Worship is about stirring up unclean spirits. What does that mean?
In order to stir up unclean spirits, worship should strive to emphasize:
Teaching: Worship should always revolve around and teach God's Word.
Commitment: Worship should ask for a renewed commitment of our faith.
Leadership: Worship should offer us direction and a plan of action.
Variety: Worship should respect the needs and cultural distinctness of everyone, young and old.
Consistency: Worship should at the same time remember and build on our traditions.
Passion: Worship should express the passion that comes from a healthy relationship with God.
Creativity: Worship should make the best possible use of our God-given talents.
Judgment: Worship should warn of God's impending judgment.
Grace: Worship should always offer the forgiving gift of Jesus Christ.
Throughout the conference, leaders admitted that the debate over worship is not as much about contemporary versus traditional styles as it is about leadership and passion. All too often churches settle for what is easy and predictable and lose their opportunity to stir up the unclean spirits.
Bishop Pennel ended with a story about an all-white church he served in Memphis, Tennessee from 1964 to 1968, a time of heightened racial tension. One Sunday a group of black students came to attend worship services. The ushers didn't deny entrance but in silence brought the students down to the front pew of the church. Later that night the room was full for the monthly board meeting: people anticipating trouble. Nothing was said at first but the anxiety mounted. It was just a matter of time.
Finally, the chairman of the board, a very influential member of the church stood up. Many who came to cause trouble assumed he would be on their side. The chairman paused for a moment, cleared his throat and said, "What a great worship service today. Isn't it wonderful that we can worship together as God's church? May it happen over and over. Is there any other business?"
No one responded. Such is the passion and power of Godly worship. Even unclean spirits are afraid."
That devotion was so good!! Thanks ConcernedSBCer.
FYI, "Pastor Pads" is on again tonight at 9PM on Eyewitness News. It's channel 13 for me, but I have Direct TV. I saw it a snippet of it this morning and they said to see the whole report, tune in at 9 pm.
karen
GMommy: I was interested in the definition of worship. Kind of interesting, huh?
Karen,
Correction: "Preacher Pads" is going to be rerun on Channel 30 at 9:00 tonight, not Channel 13. That's Channel 30 on DirecTV, too. You can watch it here any time.
BBC Information:
2007--POF--Stmnt--Xfr--Othr--Total Decisions
JAN----26----16----22-----3-----67
FEB----32----18----18----12-----80
MAR---11------6-----9-----3------29
APR---40-----23----11----10-----84
MAY---31------9-----6-----7------53
JUN---22------6-----7-----2------37
JUL---30-----11----28----12-----81
AUG---29----12----38----20-----99
SEP----29----18----35-----8-----90
OCT---13------0-----8-----4-----25
YTD---263---119---182--81----645
2006--POF--Stmnt--Xfr--Othr--Total Decisions
JAN----52----27----80----15---174
FEB----43----28----44----11---126
MAR---43----20-----34---11----108
APR---78-----42----41---21----182
MAY---17-----13----26----6-----62
JUN---61-----13----45----8----127
JUL---69------32----49---28---178
AUG---57-----42----78---44----221
SEP----39-----32----44---10----125
OCT---70-----37----65---44----216
NOV---50-----30----33---14----127
DEC---25-----15-----38----6-----84
YTD---604---331--577--218--1730
2005--POF--Stmnt--Xfr--Othr--Total Decisions
JAN----74----34----53----13---174
FEB----43----18----38-----8----107
MAR---62----18-----22---16----118
APR---39-----13----25-----9-----86
MAY---37-----15----20---12-----84
JUN---57-----12----18-----7-----94
JUL---32------18----14---13-----77
AUG---36-----22----28----8------94
SEP----40-----28----46----6-----120
OCT---51-----31----71---10-----163
NOV---49-----19----33----8-----109
DEC---48-----16----40-----3----107
YTD---568---244--408--113---1333
Oops! Looks like tonight's rerun of "Preacher Pads" and the article on Channel 24/30's website have been scrapped. Seems some of the black pastors featured in the story pitched a fit, and the station caved. You can still watch the video (for now) at the above-mentioned link.
BBC Observations: That's a big drop from last year.
It's very interesting, though. SG came in 9-05.....2006 looks like a great year, then 2007 tanked.
I also found it interesting to see the low numbers in Dec. 2006; I believe that's when everything broke about PW.
Numbers for the first nine months of the past three years:
*********** POF _ Stmt _ Let'r _ Other _ Total
***2005*** 420 __ 178 __ 264 __ 92 __ 954
***2006*** 459 __ 249 __ 441 __ 154 __ 1303
***2007*** 250 __ 119 __ 174 __ 77 __ 620
For the first nine months of 2007, totals are down as follows:
POF -46%
Stmt -52%
Let'r -61%
Other -50%
Total -52%
It would be interesting to see the number of transfers out during these same periods, but of course, that's top secret information, even more so than these numbers are supposed to be.
Thankfully, POFs are down less than the other categories.
Wow. Too many numbers for this ADD dude. You are 'fusin' me.
Does all this mean that something is wrong at BBC?
Which number is the 'taking out the trash' number?
Just sayin'.
oc.
Can't really completely take the time to digest those numbers right now, but...Would it give a little "glimpse" just to estimate members who left for GBC, KWBC, and FBC? If we compare those to the "total # 620 for 2007," would that give an idea of income/outgo?? (Of members?) I hope Steve decides to pay bills with the love offering and give more to VBS and the SEMINARY this year! Giving $$$ to the schools can buy a temporary fix, but, winning souls for Heaven is permanent. I threw away my prayer guide, but, is there one on discernment in money matters?
stop,
It is like Katrina, just throw money at it and hope it "fixes" the problems..
Bad money decisions have been the ongoing legacy of the Gaines' Administration.
"An Evangelical Rethink on Divorce"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20071106/us_time/
anevangelicalrethinkondivorce
To say the least a very provocative article. I have always tended to think as a conservative that we may be a little harsh on this issue.
I think some excellent thot applied from scripture here.
mom4 said:
"Bad money decisions have been the ongoing legacy of the Gaines' Administration."
BAD decisions including money matters have been his legacy. If you look at his tenure, everything he has done has been done with a fleshly mindset. The man has NEVER once said he has prayed over ANY decision he has made, but that is obvious, isn’t it!
The money issues are just the tip of the iceburg at BBC.
Hey Folks...When GREED is involved, bad money decisions are part of the equation. Absence the big bucks in most mega churches, the paid staff would be hard to find. Part time work for full time pay is not bad.
been redeemed,
Why in the world would SG need to pray over decisions???
Aren't the children praying for him from head to toe????
And...it's not his money he is spending.....
it seems like prudence would be a characteristic a minister/pastor should have
Regarding the link to the article on divorce...not too sure I can agree with everything this particular scholar suggested. I can agree that Biblically, divorce is allowable in certain conditions, however he names a couple I can't really agree with simply because I don't see them in Scripture. It's a delicate balancing act as to teaching what the Bible has to say about divorce..I tend to think the parameters are more narrow than many do, yet broader than do others. This much is certain...divorce is certainly no where commanded even under the conditions where it is allowed. Many in our time have taken those allowances as a command. Even in the case of adultery, reconciliation should be sought...consider Hosea...God forgave Israel's (and ours too) spiritual adulteries. I've seen many twist the Scriptures to unrecognizable proportions in order to justify divorce, but I don't think that will fly. It's a difficult question without doubt, since there are as many opinions as there are questions about it...this much I do know...with every divorce that takes place...whether within the church or without, the institution of marriage is degraded a little more, and civilized society becomes more uncivilized.
Stop the Madness: Covenant Baptist also has had a number of new members. In fact, a friend jokingly told me the other day that we should send Steve Gaines a thank you note!
I would very roughly guess 50-75???
Teacher gift bags.
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