Many of the same people who received the first anonymous letter a few weeks ago received another one this week. (See "An Anonymous Letter" two topics down.)This was taken from a scan that contained several different font styles and sizes, and some of it wasn't completely clear due to the poor quality of the scan, but I believe I have now corrected all the errors in the original scan.
629 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 629 of 629Junk: LOL. That's just baaaaaad!
Kinda a bit of truth, though, unfortunately.....
CBF is a separate organization, but many, if not most, CBF churches are also members of the SBC. CBF member churches don't consider the CBF a separate denomination, just an alternative funding method to the Cooperative Program. But since the only thing that really makes Southern Baptists a distinct denomination is their choice to jointly fund ministries, one could call the CBF a denomination, too.
Junk: Thanks. I never knew that. Or if I did, I've forgotten it.
:-)
CBF = Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
Hope I made myself clear on the Joel Osteen thing...he does not preach the gospel. He is likeable, but he does not preach Truth. Just more of the same. He gives you just enough to make you 'feel good'.
On the church split conversation...most of you know my story so I won't go there again. From all that I have learned, the majority of the splits are caused by the church growth movements...the watered down gospel being brough into the established churches; entertainment, etc. etc. I don't hear of churches being divided over the color of the carpet. I understand that in January, my former is pulling out their beautiful pews and replacing them with folding chairs. They are picking up speed now after a year and a half pause. Saturday, they are encouraging the women of the church to attend a women's conference in Decatur right out of Saddleback. Not going purpose driven? Come on!
finance guy,
I'm a little behind in reading, but I am responding to your post about how many people will cheer if Steve Gaines leaves Bellevue. Well, I have to admit, I'd be one of the first. Yes, that's rude and totally not of Christ on my part, but I'm only a human saved by grace. Now that's not to say I wish harm or major demise to Steve or his family, but I would completely enjoy him receiveing a little "come uppance". I know this comment will probably wind up on Mike's blog under "that evil blogger" heading, but I really don't care. I'm just being honest. With as much self-absorbed, selfish, prideful, haughty things Steve has shown us in word and attitude, I don't think there's a one of us who would giggle a little if Steve really stuck his foot in it. IF we are all being honest.
karen
My thought in bringing up the subject of church splits, was this.
If a group is so unhappy that they have to leave and form a new church, the underlying problem is still there. "Unhappy people" The next time the problem may be the color of the building rather than the preacher. By the way, Covenant Baptist is the result of two splits, all preacher related.
The preacher at FBC (Davis) was considered a liberal and was the main basis for Trinity being formed. I don't have a clue as to how well Second Baptist and Trinity have done since departing to greener pastures.
Amazed: Immanuel was formed from a split from Ridgeway Baptist, pastor caused. 9 years later, Covenant was formed from a split from Immanuel. That split was direction caused.
Covenant celebrates her 10th birthday next week. I am happy to say there has been nothing close to disharmony.
Your post sounded like Covenant was formed from unhappy people who will never be happy. As a charter member of Covenant, I can assure you that is not the case.
Another item of interest. GBC has apparently found their man and his last name is Kitchens. They seem to be doing it right in that his resume was presented to the congregation this past Sunday and he will be here to preach on the 28th.
The heat in the kitchen at ORU is being turned up because Richard Roberts has asked for a leave of absence. It appears that his wife may be at the center of the fire storm. I believe there is a saying-power not only corrupts-it corrupts absolutely.
concernedsbcer-Don't forget, I was around when the first group left Ridgeway and was around when the next group left to form Covenant. I know Scott Payne well and Davy Henderson was a close friend. True, the current situation at Covenant is fine but I still say the two splits were cause by the people being unhappy with the preachers.
Help me out here...is the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship not the group that Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton are involved with?
I am sure that I join with a multitude of others in praying for GBC and their new pastor.
amazed said...
If a group is so unhappy that they have to leave and form a new church, the underlying problem is still there. "Unhappy people" The next time the problem may be the color of the building rather than the preacher.
Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but that statement seems to trivialize concerns people might have about problems in their church -- the integrity of the leadership, whether the focus and direction of the church is biblical, moral issues. etc. Many people have left BBC and other churches over far larger concerns than whether or not they were "happy".
Also it seems to blame the ones who leave and start a new church, as if the problem was really just that they needed to stop being unhappy. Maybe they had good reasons to be unhappy, and starting a new church is a way of addressing those reasons.
The preacher at FBC (Davis) was considered a liberal and was the main basis for Trinity being formed.
Davis was the impetus for starting Trinity, but it was because of his desire to relocate the church; his liberalism wasn't a factor. FBC was very happy with his liberalism, and has had even more liberal pastors since.
Bellevue split when Dr. Pollard came after Dr. Lee left. He wanted things done his way and was was short with people--did not take the time to listen to them. In fact, one of his sayings was, "If you don't like things going on here the only thing for you to do is leave."--sounds eerily familiar, huh!? He said this from the pulpit.
Dr. Pollard also willingly submitted himself to a congregational vote as to whether he should continue as senior pastor. He was approved by the majority.
That doesn't sound familiar, unfortunately.
imaresistor said...
Help me out here...is the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship not the group that Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton are involved with?
The Baptist churches that Carter and Clinton have been members of have been aligned with the CBF. But the two ex-presidents' recent efforts (called the New Baptist Covenant) have been about bringing together "moderate" (liberal) Baptists from multiple denominations (not including the SBC) to attempt to present a more "progressive" image of Baptists to the world than what has been seen in the SBC since the conservative resurgance.
larry said...
Dr. Pollard also willingly submitted himself to a congregational vote as to whether he should continue as senior pastor. He was approved by the majority.
That doesn't sound familiar, unfortunately.
You mean a lip quivering "I'd still like to be your pastor, if that's all right" followed by rowdy applause doesn't count?
;)
Amazed: Do I know you? Email me please.
I was not a part of Ridgeway, but the split from Immanuel was about more than the pastor. Youth telling us if we didn't wave our arms we didn't have the Holy Spirit, a SS teacher teaching that God blesses with money, The Wizard of Oz being shown as part of a sermon, the senior adults being disrespected (I have that meeting on tape), the "trustees" running the church.....I can go on and on. It was about the direction the church was taking. The direction was from the PDL movement.
Be sure to check your mailboxes today for the 31-day "Prayer Guide For Our Pastor." Enclosed is a letter from David Coombs which reads, in part...
"Visualize this as you think about why daily intercession for our Pastor should be your responsibility and mine: imagine Bro. Steve with a huge bull's eye attached to his chest. He, like all Godly pastors, is a target of the devil's artillery.
"Then picture a group of intercessors gathered around our Pastor as a wall of protection. The target is hidden and the enemy loses any opportunity to attack him. Without protection, Bro. Steve will be a prime target every time."
amazed wrote:
If a group is so unhappy that they have to leave and form a new church, the underlying problem is still there. "Unhappy people" The next time the problem may be the color of the building rather than the preacher."
You're actually comparing people fussing over the color of the building to people being unhappy with a dictatorial, law-breaking pastor like SG? I'm the one who's "amazed" at that! Surely you can see the difference.
GBC's new pastor (pending the vote) is Hal Kitchings, not "Kitchens."
amazed,
Are you saying that in church splits the group that leaves is always the group with the "problem"?
"So help me the next Sunday she comes in with her adult daughter and they both sit on the front row with shawls draped over their heads!
It embarassed the pastor and he had an usher request they remove the 'head covering!'
I never figured that one out!"
That is hysterical!
Poor pastor he did not realize that the passage on head coverings was VERY freeing for women in that time.
You mean a lip quivering "I'd still like to be your pastor, if that's all right" followed by rowdy applause doesn't count?
Uh, no.
I wonder how many of the people who stood and applauded that Wednesday night or at the Christmas service are still at BBC? Since the place was packed on Christmas eve, and there aren't enough people on a given Sunday morning to completely fill the sanctuary anymore, it's a sure thing that a lot of people let their emotions get the better of them.
Not that it would have made a bit of difference.
Junk, the bridge joke is hilarious. I gotta remember that one.
yeah, the "Covenant Baptists" are called 'moderate' but you know, I think they are just political. Kinda like the SBC.
Anyone read Richard Land's treatise on Romney? I get so sick of all our political meanderings. As if it has changed anything...
Right. I am going to vote for a guy that believes an angel named "Moroni" buried some ancient scrolls in upstate NY a few hundred years ago and some guy named Joe Smith found them, interpreted them and presto! Mormonism. Can you say, 'cult'.
I don't know what is worse: Romney as a devout Mormon or a nominal one. :o)
Or the fact that the 19 year old Mormon missionaries on bikes are called 'elders'. Sheesh.
Amazed: I have been in contact today with several people involved in the Immanuel/Covenant split. EVERY ONE OF THEM said it was about the "drastic change in direction." The color of carpet, or not liking the pastor, was not the issue.
Maybe your friends saw a different side of it, but the 150 people who left and formed Covenant wanted to be part of a traditional, conservative Southern Baptist church. Period.
:-)
First of all, where is Mz Higgy? Isn't she the one in charge of prayer?
Second, what's with 'visualize' this and 'picture" that? No thank you Barney. We aren't into that stuff.
Just picture me out of there.
New BBC Open Forum said...
Be sure to check your mailboxes today for the 31-day "Prayer Guide For Our Pastor." Enclosed is a letter from David Coombs which reads, in part...
"Visualize this as you think about why daily intercession for our Pastor should be your responsibility and mine: imagine Bro. Steve with a huge bull's eye attached to his chest. He, like all Godly pastors, is a target of the devil's artillery.
"Then picture a group of intercessors gathered around our Pastor as a wall of protection. The target is hidden and the enemy loses any opportunity to attack him. Without protection, Bro. Steve will be a prime target every time."
Interesting that the mental picture given is not one of the prayers creating some sort of shield or barrier to protect SG. Instead the image provided is a "wall of protection" made up of the people who are praying. I guess it is okay if those folks get hit by the "devil's artillery"! They are expendable, acceptable losses ... so long as the anointed king is protected!
So now, David Coombs has posted a letter and a prayer guide telling the BBC membership to visualize, imagine, and picture a scenario before they pray. Steve Gaines is not, in reality, wearing a bull’s eye. And, as junk said, a crowd of folks standing around him can't protect him from Satan. Only God can do that.
This is ‘guided imagery’ or ‘visualization,’ –pure new age mysticism. This is so offensive; I can hardly believe it came from Bellevue Baptist. Now, we have seen this with our own eyes. Can the labyrinth be far away?
I am speechless.
churchmouse wrote:
"So now, David Coombs has posted a letter and a prayer guide telling the BBC membership to visualize, imagine, and picture a scenario before they pray."
Yes, he has. And the "prayer guide" and letter have been posted in a new topic heading.
PLEASE MOVE UP AND CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION THERE!
Thank you,
NBBCOF
Post a Comment