In an attempt to illustrate how Bellevue has changed, can you describe the atmosphere at Bellevue when you first joined (if you can remember that long ago!) versus how it is now or how it was before you left? Did you ever "sense" anything wasn't quite right but couldn't put your finger on it?Thanks to "lynn" for this topic idea.
604 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 604 Newer› Newest»Lynn: God knows our hearts. You are in my prayers.
Oh no....Fish Tacos again????
Blah! (sorry BLT)
I am certain SOTL is not eating Fish Tacos tonight!
Nor am I!
Lynn,
You msy have lost a friend. But you have gained at least one too. Me. For what it's worth.
Your buddy,
oc.
oc,
I just realized....you changed from omni cool!
I liked that name. It was...cool.
Concernedsbcer, oc, & NASS:
Ya'll got mail.
powermommy
You have mail!
piglet,
none yet.
powermom
Try your other email address.
"I believe the "gift" of prophecy is an empowerment to proclaim with clarity and boldness, in the power of the Holy Spirit, the revelation contained in Scripture...not a new "prophetic word" outside the revelation we already have."
I totally agree based on scripture (especially in Revelations). Not only an empowerment but even a hunger and thirst to proclaim the revelation of scripture. Scripture ONLY.
BTW: I had a woman tell me just the other day that God told her to eat raw vegetables for a week. Another woman told me that God told her not to give her kids vaccines. (I am leery of vaccines, too, because of research I have done)
This stuff is going on all over. People really believe it. The deception is everywhere. And we wonder why they drank the k******d.
Powermommy,
I'm just oc. But I'm still cool.
Lindon,
Uh oh, you almost said the 'K' word!
By the way, I used to surf in Huntington Beach, Santa Monica, Newport Beach. Fish tacos suck everywhere. Just sayin.
oc.
Great theology AOG. I totally agree.
bystander,
I am just now catching up with today's blog.
I am sorry that you took what I said the way you did.
I beleive I can speak for a lot of people on this blog when I say, we are voices crying in the wilderness, for all the people that we see that are going astray.
People that we did not know personaly 20 months ago. People we trusted and had faith in that they were doing God's will in their personal lives as well as the church. [BBC] People that had the honor and privilege to know and to work side by side with Dr. Rogers. That these same people during the past 20 months act like they never heard a word or had any convictions in their lives in regards to the example and teaching that Dr. Rogers lived before them.
I have no ulterior motive to post on this blog. My hearts desire is for anyone that has anything to do with BBC or any other SBC church to stop and think about their eternal soul. And their rewards after death. My desire is that I might be one of those few that God will say " well done, thy good and faithful servant." Red flags are flying all over BBC and the SBC, if I can help just one person to stop and think about what they are doing in the eyes of God, my time will not have been wasted.
For all those that will give their lives, examples, convictions to a mere human, I wish to ask one question, I saw it on a bumper sticker years ago. It stated.
THERE IS NO GOD, NO HELL!!!!!
What if--- YOU ARE WRONG???????
The things that I have personally posted that sounded hateful or hurtful was from a grieving heart. I have prayed and prayed to the Lord and asked "why will You not let me just forget about BBC and what is going on?" Maybe it's because He wants me to keep praying.
I beleive when we overlook sin in our own lives or the life of a church, God is very grieved.
I also beleive that no matter what peoples passion on this blog may be, we are of the same mind, that we love each and every person mentioned on this blog and pray for God's will to be done in their lives and hearts.
We have some great posters on this blog that has the Love of God in their hearts and are trying desperately for people to read the "CAUTION" signs of all the RED FLAGS.
Concerned: AMEN.
You said: My desire is that I might be one of those few that God will say " well done, thy good and faithful servant."
I know we are all working towards this goal, and for many on this blog, it has cost them a friend, a past, their health, or their trust.
You said: Red flags are flying all over BBC and the SBC, if I can help just one person to stop and think about what they are doing in the eyes of God, my time will not have been wasted.
This is completely true and I hope all those around the country, and world, that are reading this will at least pray for discernment and turn to the scripture and search for themselves the answers to the issues that have been raised and addressed here.
You said: we love each and every person mentioned on this blog and pray for God's will to be done in their lives and hearts.
How true......The comraderie, love, support and respect on this blog has been amazing. And when trolls pay a visit, we try to address them courteously too...but sometimes we just have to watch each other's backs and deal with the fools from Proverbs 27:4.
Thanks for a great post. :)
Powergmommy,
I have a question for you, if you don't mind. Could you either email me or tell me how I can contact you? It's nothing important, just curiosity.
Thanks,
Lisa
I've got a question. When do you guys plan on turning in that petition about calling for a business meeting?
I hope it's sometime soon, I can't stand to watch what's happening for much longer...
momlivingforhim,
If you wouldn't mind sending the communication thru NASS,I would appreciate it.
I am not familiar with your posts so I have no feel for who you are at this point. I mean no disrespect at all.
I have only emailed those that have been on the blog for a long time.
Nass will be happy to forward your email to me! Looking forward to your email.
Thanks very much for your post, Concerned.
Lin said: See! Don't get me started on Warren but people need to do their homework instead of coming here and talking about 'fruit'.
There are organizations now quietly trying to undo some of the damage of his trip with the true church there.
What has been written here about Warren and his apostacy is only about 1/100th of the full story.
Bystander Replys: I guess I'm the 'people' that you're speaking of. As I said in an earlier post, I can't speak for or defend Rick Warren and that's not the purpose of the post.
And I appreciate all who think I need to 'do my homework' regarding Warren. I know more about Rick Warren and Saddleback Church than you would ever imagine. Again, I'm not trying to defend him.
Piglet said...
bystander said
Although I don’t personally condone the theological convictions of many in main stream Christianity, I’m not so arrogant as to believe that when I get to Heaven I won’t discover that my convictions were not always right, as strongly as I believed them. They were based on Scripture, but so were the Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc. with whom I disagreed.
Piglet says:
I agree with this. I DO think there are "non-essentials" and we should unite for the cause of Christ in agreement on the things that really matter.
In Warren's case, he is uniting with cults and false religions.
In Steve Gaines case, he is wanting a false unity not based on truth and God's word but based on loyalty to HIM. God's word codemns sin - Gaines wants us to overlook his sin and continues to cover it - blatantly in the case of the financial records.
Differences in style don't bother me - but we never had to excuse and overlook such public sin under Dr. R. I can't trust a pastor who has proven himself untrustworthy. The membership deserves a godly man who is above reproach. Gaines has too many issues. He needs to get his act together, repent, and submit to the Lord...give half his salary back to the furtherance of the gospel, restore folks and families against whom he has sinned, obey the state laws, and on and on.
Thanks for your civil discourse. Most of us had no part in this and didn't ask for it. Most on this blog welcomed Steve Gaines at the beginning and were not looking for fault. This is just where we are.
12:29 PM, May 28, 2007
Bystander Replies: Thanks for your very good post! Yes! It's the non-essentials I was trying to get to. I wasn't trying to defend Rick Warren, Steve Gaines, or anyone else.
I was trying to find a way (you said it much better than I could) to suggest that there must be some non-essentials that we could all agree on that cross denominational lines.
If not, then it seems we've drawn a very tight, small circle around who we can 'live with/dialogue with/help/or whatever...
We spend so much time building high, thick walls of protection around ourselves to keep from getting hurt that we can sometimes miss whatever mission God has given us as individuals on earth.
BBC folk on this blog have every reason to draw a tight circle, to build a high wall.
I am simply trying to reach out to say, "Not everybody is the enemy. Not everybody is a heretic. Even though we might not have the identical beliefs, there are some non essentials that we have in common". It's ok (probably much, much better) for you to name the non-essentials and I, for one, will tell you whether I can agree with them.)
I can see why many would be gun shy of trolls...gun shy of those who challenge...but not everybody is waiting in the dark lying in wait for the chance to pounce on someone's statement with language requiring NASS to delete.
The Baptist church of the new millennium is HERE.
Beer is served.
Growth is explosive.
It’s fine to take money from the state Baptist convention, but under no circumstances can the word Baptist appear in the church name.
The goal is to make Christianity “relevant”.
I suppose the good news is that the pastor speaks on Wednesday nights, although it is in a brew pub.
why said...
bystander posted: Gaines wants us to overlook his sin and continues to cover it - blatantly in the case of the financial records.
Reply: I would more info and facts on this please. I am sure you have them don't you.
8:50 AM, May 29, 2007
Reply: Actually Piglet made the statement. Sorry that it was a confusing post but I was responding to his/her earlier post.
I missed most of this conversation, but I want to bring something to your attention.
Watchinghistory is quoting a lot of you on Mike Bratton's blog since he's been banned from posting here.
Also, Ms. Billie Tapp has posted about me being "one of the ringleaders" and has posted about I can't get over something in my childhood. Ms. Billie Tapp, with that statement, has slandered and lied about my parents with that statement and I need to clear that up RIGHT NOW! Ms. Tapp, before you post one more delusional statment about me, you better read this and use your brain:
MY EX HUSBAND ABUSED FROM MY AGE 21-25 - DO YOU GET IT NOW? MY ABUSE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY CHILDHOOD AND MY PARENTS ARE WONDERFUL, GODLY PARENTS AND I AM VERY LUCKY TO HAVE THEM!
DON'T THINK I'M NOT LETTING THE CHURCH KNOW ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE SAID AND DONE TO ME ON THIS BLOG AND ON MIKE'S BLOG AND THROUGH YOUR SPITEFUL, HATEFUL EMAILS TO ME. LADY, YOU HAVE MESSED WITH THE WRONG PERSON!
KEEP MY NAME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH - DON'T EMAIL ME, DON'T BLOG ABOUT ME AND LEAVE ME ALONE. YOU HAVE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME AND YOU WON'T GET AWAY WITH IT.
KAREN
why,
I for one was not looking for things to criticze Dr. Rogers for,nor was I looking for anything to criticze Dr. Gaines over. Dr. Gaines provided plenty to be criticzed for all by himself.
karen,
YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!
Karen,
Love yah sister! You tell 'em!!!
Lisa
QUESTION for you:
We have been discussing the downward trend in attendance and giving at BBC.
Should we be encouraged that maybe there have been more discerning people at BBC than we realized.
True, many have been silent. We could have used their help.
From the point of view that the spiritual health of the church body is more important than the church facilities, should we at least take heart in the fact that so many are leaving?
I wonder about the SBC. Is there a falling away from that organization, also?
Bystander has a good case of
relativism. He speaks out of both sides of his mouth, it seems. He believes the ends justify the means. Character no longer counts.
There is no black and white...just gray. Situational ethics have invaded the church and if you don't go along with it, you are unloving and harsh, unbending ie. not willing to change with the times- and on and on it goes. We were taught well by our former pastor to measure everything by the inerrant Word of God. It is our plumb line in a crooked and perverse world where everyone is doing what seems right in their own eyes. This is what God has to say: "Woe unto them who call evil good and good evil; who put darkness for light and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them who are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight. Who justify
(EXCUSE) the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!"
(Isa. 5:20,21,23)
why said,
Please remember though, MANY on this blog including yourself go way too FAR every single day.
Reply:
WHY are you here?
Did you come here to scold us?
Did you come here offering pearls of wisdom? If so, give us some specific facts, not just your opinion of us.
When individual bloggers on one blog become the subject of discussion of another blog, what does that say?
Why
If there is nothing to hide, you hide nothing. The law states that a non-profit should open the books for any member of said non-profit.
Question - If financial matters had been handled under the table, and God's money used for someone's personal gain and lust for wealth(SG and others) would you even WANT to know?
Question - If you are so sure there is no wrongdoing, why are you not on the phone or in Coombs/Gaines office demanding they open these bokks and avoid the appearance of evil?
Could it be that you KNOW this has occurred and are quaking in your books that this might not be over? That a court could order those books opened and no amount of doctoring could cover what the bank register would reveal? Who ARE you Why? Steve Tucker?
I think you protest too much....
I go to bed and when I wake up I see worms crawling all over the place from the cans that are opened up!!!
Why: Talk to the hand cause my ears aren't listening to you.
Karen: I'm sorry for the pain that some are causing you. I have met your parents and husband and they are some of the nicest people I have ever met.
As far as the Beer Church....that has to be one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. What if some of the Christians are recovering alcoholics? Thats just throwing them in the direct path of temptation.
Hello 32years,
Well said, my friend.
You sound like someone who was trying to get their children through school in the 80s and 90s, like I was. My children came home writing their own obituaries and epitaphs, telling of lifeboat games (where they had to choose who to throw overboard) and designing utopian societies -- brainwashing our kids.
You and I are a couple of well seasoned warriors, am I right?
Karen said
Watchinghistory is quoting a lot of you on Mike Bratton's blog since he's been banned from posting here.
Piglet says:
Oh, how cool that Mike gets to deal with him now. Just a shame that MB is out of town or WH could pay him a social visit. :)
Churchmouse said...
Hello 32years,
Well said, my friend.
You sound like someone who was trying to get their children through school in the 80s and 90s, like I was. My children came home writing their own obituaries and epitaphs, telling of lifeboat games (where they had to choose who to throw overboard) and designing utopian societies -- brainwashing our kids.
You and I are a couple of well seasoned warriors, am I right?
Lynn's Response:
Churchmouse, what school system was this? The only obituaries I was writing in school was my own cause I was in the Memphis City Schools lol. (Don't get me started on how Overton High School pulled a Steve Gaines when a student tried to sexually assault me in class).
Red Alert! All Hands On Deck!
http://www.thestate.com/426/story/75841.html
Check this out. This is uberscary!
NASS
You have mail from the 100 acre woods.....
lynn,
Our kids were in public schools because we thought it would be good for them to live in the world and not be part of the world. They turned out great, but it was painful for everyone.
Our older child was at Raleigh Egypt. It was a good school when she started. Before she finished, it became violent, so violent that teachers would on occassion, barricade themselves in the lunchroom and leave the students to their own devices. I am talking chairs being thrown out windows and people being assaulted.
Child #2 was at Craigmont. That began well, but soon the shootings started. A acquaintance of hers was shot for her letter jacket.
The "brainwashing" started in the gifted and advanced placement classes. Don't ever feel flattered that they consider your child gifted. That means "teachable."
The grandbabies are homeschooled. We no longer expect them to live in the world.
Churchmouse,
I know that feeling too well. After I left Overton and enrolled at Fayette Ware, I was put into AP Classes even though I didn't ask for it. I hated it. ANd then they put me in the Honor Society. Let me tell you, they were not happy when I refused to attend Honor Society functions so I could actually learn. I was taking Trig and Pre-Calc at the time and I was struggling so I opted to stay in class.
Needless to say I have grown an exteme dislike for public schools. Especially after the principal of Overton as well as teachers not taking any action against the students who tried to sexually assault me in class. Just like how Steve Gaines handled the PW Scandal.
BTW, I'm only 9 years removed from high school :)
momliving4him
I've got a question. When do you guys plan on turning in that petition about calling for a business meeting?
I hope it's sometime soon, I can't stand to watch what's happening for much longer...
Piglet says:
Do you plan on signing the petition?
The goal was to get a quorum and we aren't close. Apparently all those that stood to continue the business meeting are either scared or don't care enought to sign the petition.
Churchmouse:
We have been discussing the downward trend in attendance and giving at BBC.
Should we be encouraged that maybe there have been more discerning people at BBC than we realized.
True, many have been silent. We could have used their help.
From the point of view that the spiritual health of the church body is more important than the church facilities, should we at least take heart in the fact that so many are leaving?
I wonder about the SBC. Is there a falling away from that organization, also?
The lack of giving is easy to acount for. It has been well known for many years that 10% of the people of any church (especially Southern Baptist) do 90% of the giving in both tithes and works. Since approximately 10% of the membership (30,000 figure is very much in question) is no longer attending Bellevue, then it stands to reason that a large portion of the weekly giving has gone with them. I was assisting with ushering this past Sunday and in the section that I was in, out of approximately 15 families only 3 placed offerings. I want it known that I did not check the ammounts written on the envelopes, but I knew many of the ones in that section and feel sure that they have not been blessed yet to the point of providing a substantial portion of the missing budget.
My point is that if you apply this formula to the balance of the half-filled sanctuary it is easy to see where the money is.
If true, this speaks volumes regarding the spiritual state of those remaining. They fill seats and sing songs, but have empty hearts and devotion is something talked-about and not lived.
Aslan,
Could it also be possible that some that are still remaining, are sending their tithes elsewhere such as to Mid America?
Churchmouse said....
Child #2 was at Craigmont. That began well, but soon the shootings started. A acquaintance of hers was shot for her letter jacket.
What year was this? I went to Craigmont (and graduated!) from 1982-1986 and loved it! Dr. Walters, the pricipal didn't allow no mess so I'm curious about this shooting. Dr. Walters always had things well in hand. Here's a well kept secret about me: I played the Cowardly Lion in the "Wizard of Oz" in 1985. That was so much fun! :)
karen
Karen, Our experience was about '84 to '88. Dr. Walters was there when child #2 started. Yes, Dr. Walters was great! When she left, thing took a downward spiral. There were at least three shootings when our child was there. There is no feeling like being trapped sitting in your car in the "pick-up line" after school, just before the bell rings to dismiss clsses and having the MPD come screaming up sirens full blast and lights flashing, and rush the front door with their guns drawn. NEVER AGAIN!
alanstown said:
If true, this speaks volumes regarding the spiritual state of those remaining. They fill seats and sing songs, but have empty hearts and devotion is something talked-about and not lived.
11:07 AM, May 29, 2007
______________________
This is so right on! I would guess the tithing-people are for the most part gone. We know someone who ushers and he says he is shocked at what little is collected now on Sun. mornings. The budget has to be strained at this point. It takes mucho dollars to keep the huge Bellevue complex functioning and in good shape. I do not take any pleasure in this. It, in fact, breaks my heart. But that is reality. I know there is the multi-million dollar surplus but it won't take long for that to be used up if they have to keep dipping into it to meet salaries, etc. I've heard SG wants a younger & more diversified congregation. Even the ones who are committed to giving are not yet able to give like the older generation who has been pushed out.
The "me-me" generation, for the most part, have no motivation to give or serve and that could be a major problem for the "new" Bellevue.
-----------------------
churchmouse,
We are on the same page. Situational ethics are the downfall of our nation - and now our churches. It is another erosion of our moral fiber and we see it in the classroom, in Congress, and now in the church. There are no absolutes in the culture because God has been pushed aside and His Word compromised. The church has left its first love and no longer the light and salt it is commanded by HOLY God to be in the culture.
Karen,
I admire your spunk.:-)
"The righteous are as bold as a lion" (Proverbs 28:1).
I think your right about the budget being strained.
I mean, look at the Career group. Past years they took a bus to Gulf Shores, but then all of a sudden this year they make everyone carpool down there. And they cited how expensive it was to operate the buses.
lynn said
I mean, look at the Career group. Past years they took a bus to Gulf Shores, but then all of a sudden this year they make everyone carpool down there. And they cited how expensive it was to operate the buses.
Piglet says:
And all the while, Steve is laughing all the way to the bank....what a picture....
Lynn:
It is possible, but there is no way to tell unless we check everyone's giving record. You or someone you know may be giving elsewhere, but after so much time has gone by , I feel that the vast majority of those remaining are just waiting. For what , I'm not sure. Just waiting.
The general opinion of those that are remaining at Bellevue and give at least a token resemblance of caring about the health of the church is that they are releaved that it appears that the exodus is almost over. In thier view, if they no longer see the attendance shrinking, then the problem has almost fixed itself.
32years said:
churchmouse,
We are on the same page. Situational ethics are the downfall of our nation - and now our churches. It is another erosion of our moral fiber and we see it in the classroom, in Congress, and now in the church. There are no absolutes in the culture because God has been pushed aside and His Word compromised. The church has left its first love and no longer the light and salt it is commanded by HOLY God to be in the culture.
Reply:
WELL SAID
Yeah. All the while the safety of those who went were put at risk.
Call me crazy here, but I will NOT ride with people who I don't know and trust even if they are church members. Thats why I stayed home this weekend.
My momma didn't raise no fool!
Karen, said that B T has crossed the line with statements about her blogs. Are you K M? K M that stated on the blog that she had suffered from past sexual abuse?
Are you the K M who said that Bellevue sent you to P W for counseling regarding past abuse?
If you are not that person then you are the one who shared their testimony and you have nothing to be angry about.
Also, I read the posting on the other site and there was nothing said about your parents only about your childhood (this could have been your spiritual childhood) that is if you are spiritual discerning.
I actually feel sorry for you and all of those who can, "dish out but can not take in" As long as the shoe is on the other foot everything is fine and dandy but when the blogging turns around and comes toward you, you are ready to, "get somebody" and you take a stab.
What is this blog site all about? Is it for taking a stand for truth or is for the purpose of solicting others to follow their lead instead of Pastor Gaines? I think any reader can see the facts for what they are. Go back over all of the threads and you will see, by counting them that K is the name most often blogging.
Mike Bratton allows people opportunity to state their personal views of IDC and those who support them.
NASS often says, "trolls" are not welcomed on his forum and "don't come here" my question is why do you go over to the, "trolls" forum to get information to talk about on this site?
Seekhiswill,
Wallow in your delusion - you know what you said and you know who you aimed it at. Take your precious Bellevue and choke on it. If you have nothing better to do than just bold face lie after what you said, then you can have the Bellevue and its current pastor in the sad state it has become. I have no part in it and I want no part of it. I have moved on and will move my membership shortly. There is no reason for you to continue bothering me - you win, choke on your beloved Bellevue. I'm done!
karen
Karen...
I think someone else said this earlier but it bears repeating....
YOU GO GIRL! :)
Lynn,
Did I read what she wrote about me incorrectly? I just want to make sure through someone else's eyes.
In her orginial post she wrote about Karen (not KM as she's now claiming), then she wrote about getting past something in my childhood (not spiritaul something - if that were the case, she should have said that).
I am so done with all this mess! I'm considering banning myself from the blog, but I'd miss some of y'all too much!
Pray for me - got a dr. appt (important test to be done!).
karen
I'm not sure really. Her writings have become so incoherent I'm confused.
Karen,
With brotherly love I share Habakkuk 2:15-16.
The wine or drink is wrath or anger. If your foreskin is showing it means you still have one....the foreskin is another way of saying hard heart.
In short, if you force your neighbor to drink of your cup, you in essence provoke your neighbor. Eventually you will drink from that same cup and your unrighteousness will show.
The same works in reverse. If you drink from the cup of wrath offered you....you become drunk and your unrighteousness shows....
DON'T DRINK FROM THE CUP....
In thier view, if they no longer see the attendance shrinking, then the problem has almost fixed itself.
---------------------
I'm there every Sunday and believe me the attendance is shrinking so fast it's almost surreal. A vibrant,joyful church that sent out God's truth and light is now just a shadow of itself. Really hard to absorb. And it has all happened in less than two years. Those who think the bleeding has stopped need to face reality and also realize there are people who are staying only to fulfill current commitments. Once those commitments are complete, there will be more leaving. These are facts that should humble and break the hearts of any who loved and served the Lord at Bellevue Baptist Church. May we all walk humbly before the Lord in this severe time of testing.
When Dr. Rogers was our pastor no one had the nerve to start a blog site. The devil did not have opportunity to get a strong hold.
In the process of transition, Satan took advantage and used what he had available (the web) to hinder, stop, harrass and destroy.
Today we have the opportunity to witness and support our new Pastor as he is being groomed to carry on the gospel under Satan's forces of evil schemes.
This is an eye opening experience for those who draw close to the Lord and those things we learn today will help our children tomorrow as they become spiritual leaders in a world ruled by Satan.
Please don't misunderstand; I do not enjoy what I am viewing on this blog site; but I am understanding the scope of spiritual warfare in today's technology.
Spiritual warfare going on in the hearts and minds of people now on display before many eyes to see. I pray BBC members are all wise enough to actually see it and know how to fight the good fight. Eph. 6:10
Brother Steve or the staff of BBC are not the problem they are in the fight with us.
I will go to Church this Sunday morning with the will of the Father in my heart and join in with the spirit of those who understand that our battle is not with man but with satan. Dr. Rogers talked about this before and today we live in the battle along with our Pastor; thank God for sending us a Pastor who is strong in his faith and willing to stay the course with us.
seekinghiswill,
Please produce the post(s) you're talking about in which "KM" tells of her past abuse. "Karen" (i.e. the person with that screen name) is indeed Karen M., the only "Karen" I'm aware of who posts here, although she's certainly not the person who posts the most by any means. I often go days at a time without seeing a single post from her.
I think she is exactly the KM to which you referred and that you are now trying to backpedal because you misspoke. Karen did mention the abuse that occurred during her first marriage, but she comes from a wonderful, upstanding family in which she has stated without any doubt there was no childhood abuse. You owe Karen Marshall and her parents an apology, ma'am!
And, Ms. Tapp, let me just clear this up for you once and for all...
This blog is not the "IDC blog." As far as I know that organization doesn't have a blog. This blog is not associated with any other blog, website, organization, or individual, not Saving Bellevue, not Jim Haywood, not Mark Sharpe, not Josh Manning, not IDC, no one else. Get it? While Mark and Josh as well as some members of IDC have posted comments here (I don't know everyone's identity), to my knowledge Jim Haywood never has. So I'd appreciate it if you'd get your facts straight before you continue to lump everyone together.
Also, if you don't like what you read here, just don't read it! How difficult is that? As someone said to me the other day, I bet "they" wish "seekinghiswill" was on "our" side. As much as I detest the use of that term, "side," I imagine that person was right. You are so "out there" that you do nothing to further your cause or that of "Brother Steve," and he'd probably just as soon you didn't do him any more favors by speaking out on his behalf! Believe me, you're only making him look worse.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go pick up my mink coat from the cleaners. I spewed sweet tea all over it the other day while I was reading one of your earlier comments and it required professional cleaning. (I'll be sure to send you the bill seeing as it was all your fault!)
I'vegotit" said...
"Brother Steve or the staff of BBC are not the problem they are in the fight with us. "
Steve Gaines is not in this fight with us.
He is in the fight AGAINST us.
His actions along with the rest of the Bellevue Mafia's clearly shows that.
How else do you explain Gaines allowing a CHILD MOLESTER to not only stay on staff, but give him a pay raise to boot?
How else do you explain the shutting off the mics and ending the business meeting before the people's concerns could be heard.
How else do you explain David Coombs telling Josh Manning he does not care what THE STATE LAW SAYS pertaining to turning over requested documents?
How else do you explain his sister-in-law, who's not even a member of Bellevue telling people who disagree "they're not part of the ministry so they might as well leave"
How do you explain Gaines publically disrespecting the congregation in Union City?
How do you explain Gaines LYING to the congregation on numerous occasions including why he doesn't preach on Wednesday Nights.
I'm sorry, but I do not see how Gaines is with us when he himself has acted in SIN...UNREPENTANT SIN.
All of this could have been avoided if Gaines was honest and open with the congregation instead of hiding behind a bunch of goons.
"I'vegotit" said...
When Dr. Rogers was our pastor no one had the nerve to start a blog site. The devil did not have opportunity to get a strong hold.
Reply:
What a mouthful you just said. You are sadly mistaken if you think Dr. Rogers was not criticized. He was criticized from every direction.
You are correct that blogging is a fairly new trend.
The devil repeatedly attacked our church for taking a strong stand against liberalism, abortion, gay rights, and many issues. Did you never suffer for our churches position on those issues? I did.
Have you considered that when Dr. Rogers went home, BBC lost her hedge of protection. Much sin has been uncovered hiding behind the giant white crosses. I don't believe it is the devil who comes in and shines the light on sin.
igi wrote:
"When Dr. Rogers was our pastor no one had the nerve to start a blog site."
When Dr. Rogers was our pastor there was no need to! I will say though that there were apparently some things going on behind the scenes, things which were kept from him, that should have seen the light of day. Maybe if some things had been brought out back then things wouldn't have gotten to the point they are today.
Seeking whose will?
Where is the love?
Where is the edification of the church?
Where is the grace of the Lord Jesus?
By this shall all men know ye are my disciples- if you LOVE one another...
It doesn't compute. The fruit should match the tree. Good tree=Good fruit. Bad tree=bad fruit.
Hmmmm.... Just sayin' what should be obvious already. Let us all be fruit inspectors, starting with our own fruit...
Being sent into the midst of wolves, being as wise as serpents, harmless as doves
i'vegotit said
thank God for sending us a Pastor who is strong in his faith and willing to stay the course with us.
Piglet says:
Obviously Steve can't do anything to dampen your loyalty to him. I guess every time he sins and brings shame on the church you want to blame Satan for it?
This "pulpit job" is cushy beyond imagination - where else can you work that you can disobey the law and have your employer pay the legal fees, you can refuse to show up one day a week and work somewhere else instead - on a regular basis, stick your foot in your mouth over and over again, run off employees, have everyone take the blame for you, cover up your misdeeds and blame Satan for your opposition? Not to mention the pay - and the "under the table" cash gifts and such.....
Sure he's "staying the course" - poor fellow, it must be rough....
32years,
The numbers coming out of Bellevue are like everything else being said by leadership. You can't believe anything anymore. What is interesting is that the numbers the staff have and the numbers being published by Bellevue are not even close. What ever happened to just being honest and transparent?
Two Sundays ago, both services combined had 5,900. This included not only both services, but the children’s worship services, and the nursery count for both the 9:30 and 11:00 hours.
Last month, there was a Sunday that both services combined had 5,300 in attendance. Once again, these numbers given the staff are including the children’s and nursery numbers. The sanctuary I believe holds 6,700 if filled to capacity.
Here are the numbers being published by the church as official numbers. If anyone has a name that goes behind these numbers, please let us know. I can't seem to get anyone at Bellevue that will stand behind these numbers.
As you look at these numbers, Bellevue is inflating the current 2007 numbers but they are also lowering the 2006 numbers to make the current numbers not look as bad. One year ago, we had many Sundays both services combined exceeded 10,000. Does anyone remember the high attendance number in Bible Fellowship we had while Dr. Rogers was pastor? In my mind I believe we exceeded 12,000. If anyone can remember, please share it.
The numbers are what they are. Why does the church have to play games?
March AM Worship
2007 2006
9:30 4,125 4,552
11:00 2,116 3,031
Total 6,241 7,583
Bible Fellowship
2007 2006
8:00 2,489 3,020
9:30 2,402 2,668
11:00 1,427 1,836
Total 6,318 7,524
April AM Worship
2007 2006
9:30 4,404 5,327
11:00 3,058 3,781
Total 7,462 9,108
Bible Fellowship
2007 2006
8:00 2,492 2,977
9:30 2,446 2,601
11:00 1,506 1,841
Total 6,444 7,419
"I'vegotit"
You said that, "When Dr. Rogers was our pastor no one had the nerve to start a blog site. The devil did not have opportunity to get a strong hold."
When Dr. Rogers was our pastor you could go to the BBC web site and leave a email any time of the day or night.
When Dr. Gaines became our pastor the email to BBC was taken down.
I wonder why that was?
Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Jude
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
For there are certain men crept in unawares, ... ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,...Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities...
Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah.
These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds [they are] without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jude 1:17
But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost...
lynn,
Please don't listen to anything from the BANNED Watching !!!
Watching...
are your visions and rantings and black snakes bringing honor and glory to Christ???
Have your delusions been pointing the weak and the wounded to Jesus ???
Have your demands to be heard brought clarity to the lost about God's word??
You're banned from this blog so respond to the the snakes.
powergmommy,
I try to block him out, but he caught me at a bad time :). He caught me at a time where I'm extremely cranky lol.
BTW, whats your e-mail address? I want to e-mail you the story of why I'm so cantankerous lol.
NASS,
Thanks for looking out for me. I knew there weren't any posts from a KM. I just needed another set of eyes on it.
Eze,
Thanks for your words - I've calmed down quite a bit. The worst part is that people who know me and know my parents read this blog then talk to me or my parents and I would hate for anyone out there reading to assume my parents had any part in my domestically violent past. All my abuse was at the hand of my ex-husband - who will die someday and that's good enough for me. I am just glad that I had the chance to set the record straight. I am not bitter toward Ms. Tapp because I got what I wanted to say to her out there and now it's over with, so everything's okay. Thanks for the concern. :)
karen
siwsyzdigi,
If.....If....you will read the OT and the NT with the help of the Holy Spirit...you will find that you give too much credit to Satan for the things happening at BBC today.
What you see is the same type of judgement God punished Jerusalem with. If you think this is OT malarky and your in the NT now please read Jer 25:15, 17,28-29. Then apply what you learn there to Mat 3:11-12 and Luke 12:49.
Then Mark 10:38-39 and Luke 12:50
The Fire is come....and we will be baptised just as James and John were. He is fire of affliction, judgement, refinement.
The chaff is burned, right along with the scribes and pharisees, preachers and pastors that prophecy "peace, peace"..
Something to think about as you stand with a pastor that thinks the WORD is mere guidelines and to be followed at ones own discretion.....rather than with ones entire heart and being, totally committed to the WORD.
Luke 12. He is come to divide....what is all this unity stuff we hear? Unity with the WORD or unity in APOSTACY. In the words of Elijah.........make up your mind. Are you going to follow an Idol or are you going to follow God?
seekinghiswill?
If you feel 'led' to 'seek
His will'(and that is very suspect) in order to bash someone, at least have the right information. If you can't, I would say to you what I have said to others,....put your tail between your legs, and find another hydrant.
i've got it,
You are correct to say that we battle not against flesh and blood. However, the enemy of the gospel is not what takes place on this or any blog site...it is much more subtle and seductive than that...the battle is with the vain philosophies of this world which have convinced so-called men of God that Christ, His gospel, and His church are commodities to be marketed to depraved and ruined sinners, and that a better marketing strategy is what's needed to "win them over"...a strategy which is designed to make sinners feel "at home" in God's house...at home because they can find the same type of entertainment in church that they find already outside it's walls. It is a soul-damning philosophy and needs to be repented of.
AOG,
Well said. You go brother.
piglet wrote:
"I guess every time he sins and brings shame on the church you want to blame Satan for it?"
Could it be?
"siwsyzdigi"
Who dat?
NBBCOF,
You rock!
I'vegotit, you are right that we are in a spiritual warfare and we are to fight by putting on the entire armor of 'God.
First, nothing can or does happen at Bellevue or anywhere else without it going through the hands of God. It is actually the Lord who is allowing what is happening at Bellevue to happen. Remember Job?
God is Soverign, He is all powerful and He is acutely aware of what is happening in our midst.
And, He is allowing it to happen.
How do we then fight this spiritual war? Well, scriptures tell us we are to fight it with Truth. Truth is essential and is commanded to be spoken, one to another. The children of God confront the enemy of God by speaking Truth to his lies. We are told that satan is the father of all lies and those who chronicall lie are his children. So, this blog give everyone to confront lies with Truth.
Also, we use the Word of God to fight the spiritual battles. That is done here too. A child of God does not use the Word of God for his own private purposes to tear down the flock of God but it is to feed the flock, to fight the devil and to fight the lies. The Word of God is to be rightly divided and not twisted and it is never, NEVER watered down to be 'JUST A SUGGESTION"! The child of God agrees and says of His Word: IT IS WRITTEN.
We fight spiritual battles with Truth and THe Word of God and by keeping the world, the flesh and the devil out of our assembling together. We fight to get the world out because we know that Jesus said that if you love and serve HIM, the world will hate us. We don't then turn our back on Him and dod it our own way because we think we know how to do it better than God! King Saul did that. "I.ll do it my way!"
When we try to draw in the world by compromise and with a hip coffee shop and try to ge Starbucks in the church and feed the teens pizza instead of God's Word, and have our music become a side show performance and entertainment that appeals to the flesh and not the spirit, then we fight to get the world and the flesh out of the assembly.
If you attrack the world with carnal flesh, you keep the world with carnal flesh.
We are told to GO OUT INTO THE WORLD and catch fish, not bring sharks into our meetings. There is a huge difference. And it is spiritual warfare!
God wants obedience not what someone thinks is a better way.
seekinghiswill?,
If you really are seeking His will, wouldn't you apologize to Karen and her parents, since you are hugely 'mistaken' in spewing false information? Hmmmm. I bet it would go along way in making it right by apologizing publically, on this blog. And maybe on Mikey's blog too.
So, what do you think? Are you willing to live up to your screen name? Or not.
oc.
Watching,
Sorry you felt the need to curse me. Nass deleted it before I could read it.
I really was hoping you would ask yourself those questions.
Well folks,
I got an answer to pray today. My tubes are working! YAY! That means I'm physically able to have a baby so I'm very excited about that! YAY GOD!
So with the beginning of my day being ruined by the misinformation of one, God truly is still on the throne and He showed me in true form that He knows what He is doing.
Thanks to all of you who have been praying for me! :D
Bellevue Baptist Church was a wonderful Church to me and my family. We grew so much in our walk with the LORD. We are in much grief over the present state of affairs and are looking for another church. Numbers are indeed down at Bellevue and it may soon be left to the "millionaires club" to turn out the lights. But as I heard a wonderful preacher say a few weeks ago "There are no 2000 year old churches." Think about it.
bystander said,
I can see why many would be gun shy of trolls...gun shy of those who challenge...but not everybody is waiting in the dark lying in wait for the chance to pounce on someone's statement with language requiring NASS to delete.
7:03 AM, May 29, 2007
oc replies: Uh huh. No one here has 'shied' away from a challenge. I have been watching. I have seen very few 'wooses' here. And, sadly for my gender, the women have been the most steadfast and have been the spiritual leaders. But no one has 'shied' away from honest challenge. It's not the intellectual challenge that is the probem here, it is the idiotic statements from the pompous, and less than honest posters who promote conflict that is the problem.
So, if any of us are 'gun shy',
there is plenty of reason for it. But as for me, I have witnessed great courage from many. And God bless them. I have been encouraged.
Just sayin'.
oc.
i've got it,
You have to ignore lots of scripture to believe all the things you wrote. And I mean that in a foundational sense. I pray that your eyes will be opened to the full counsel of God.
Karen.
:)
oc.
bystander,
What do you consider to be the non-essentials?
I get so depressed when I drive past Bellevue. There is such a drastic difference in atmosphere and feeling when you go into the building or drive past it.
Then I remember that it is just a beautiful building. The church is the people. The church has left the building.
I suppose it is the same feeling you get when you look at the corpse of someone you love. They have left their tabernacle. It is void, and an empty shell and that is what you see and feel.
Karen:
Glad things went well this afternoon for you. :)
Rod: Your right. Too bad right now I'm so untrusting of people in general, I'm not sure if I can go back to "church". I just feel like I don't fit in anywhere anymore.
Lynn said,
Rod: Your right. Too bad right now I'm so untrusting of people in general, I'm not sure if I can go back to "church". I just feel like I don't fit in anywhere anymore.
oc replies: Jesus didn't fit in anywhere either. Be encouraged.
oc.
New BBC Open Forum said...
seekinghiswill,
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go pick up my mink coat from the cleaners. I spewed sweet tea all over it the other day while I was reading one of your earlier comments and it required professional cleaning. (I'll be sure to send you the bill seeing as it was all your fault!)
NASS, er "Minnesota Ice" ,
REAL MEN can wear pink shirts and mink coats! I guess it still gets cold up there in Minnesota at night, huh?
Sheeplessatbbc said:
REAL MEN can wear pink shirts and mink coats! I guess it still gets cold up there in Minnesota at night, huh?
6:14 PM, May 29, 2007
Mink Coats are really big with NFL Players. Just look at Michael Irvin and Ray Lewis :)
Lynn said,
Mink Coats are really big with NFL Players. Just look at Michael Irvin and Ray Lewis :)
Oc says: Yeah, but if you're not as bad as Ray Lewis, don't try it.
Be encoouraged Lynn! There are still a lot of WONDERFUL Spirit filled believers around here, who are every ready to love and encourage you, and who will feed you His Word. I know. I've met some of the most mature and beautiful believers recently who have just been a blessing from our Father. He is so faithful and He is so good. Remember, discouragement is from the enemy! Sing of His praises and He will lead you.
Lynn, don't worry about being able to trust people. Just trust HIM. Hay! The victory is ours and we have already won the battle, in Him. Rejoice Lynn! You are a victor!
Oc says: Yeah, but if you're not as bad as Ray Lewis, don't try it.
Don't get much baaaadder than,
"Minnesota Ice"
I have no idea what she's talking about y'all. In my emails to Ms. Tapp, I shared about my ex husband, but I never posted anything on savingbellevue.com. I copied and pasted for you guys to see what's she saying over on Mike's blog. Excuse my crude use of language, but Ms. Tapp, let's not turn this into a "pissing contest". You are wrong in what you wrote and you're wrong in your explanation. Just face facts, you have no idea what you're talking about as far as I am concerned. The gal who posted on savingbellevue was "Beth" - the same one from Wendi Thomas' column. Here's an email sent to her on Dec. 23rd regarding my ex's abuse. I flat stated that I was abused by an ex husband - where does she get that it happened when I was a child? I'm posting this over at Bratton's blog too - oh this is so much fun! NOT!
From: Karen Marshall (karebear11068@hotmail.com)
Sent:Sat 12/23/06 12:04 AM
To: sendthelight50@aol.com
You know nothing about the power of an abuser, do you Mrs. Tapp??? I do - 1st hand and I have the scars to prove it. Do you know how many times I was emotionally, physically and sexually abused by my ex-husband in a 2 week period?? I don't care if Dr. Gaines knew about the molestation for 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 minutes! HE SHOULD HAVE REPORTED IT! He has been a pastor long enough to know that you REPORT ABUSE - ALLEGED (which is not the case here) AND ADMITTED!! If he didn't know to report the abuse then he is inept at being our pastor. I'm sure they teach that type of thing over at Mid-America.
Do you know how many children Paul Williams could have abused in 2 weeks? No you don't so don't even guess - just let that sink in for a minute. I pray to God you are never subjected to the level of abuse of a predator such as Paul Williams because if you are, you would wish it were Satan instead of a man. I can't get my mind around a man who looks at his son, his own flesh and blood and thinks about what pleasure he could get from the vile things wrought upon his child.
POSTED ON THE BRATTON REPORT:
SeekingHisWill said...
Please folks let me set a few statements straight:
The IDC bloggers are actually bloggers who use the IDC organized anti Gaines site to blog of their versions of what is wrong with BBC.
Karen aka Karebear has been a long time, very often postwoman on the IDC, "information center" for those who desire to oust Pastor Gaines. Prior to this she posted on the Jim Haywood and Josh Mannings, "savingbellevue" site.
Karebear wrote several post stating that she had suffered from past abuse. Karebear wrote to my personal email address sharing her testimony with me regarding her past abuse. Karebear did NOT say that she was abused as a very young child, however, considering the conversations we had regarding the PW scandal and the, "coverup" I did believe that she had been molested as a child. Karen has< "hit the roof" on the other site stating that I have insulted she and her parents. If Karen aka Karebear who posted on "Savingbellevue" will recall I shared my testimony of past abuse with her and just in case she perceived that it was from one of my parents; let me make it clear that I also had parents who were great. Why did Karen assume that I was implying that her abuse may have been from her parents?
I had compassion for Karen aka Karebear but I did not agree with her accusations toward Pastor Gaines or hold to her twisted views of holding him responsible for what happen between two other people over 17 years ago or for the way he handled the information which he was given by the offender.
Karen of the ADC (organized anti Gaines blog) has thrown out some ugly, name calling remarks and has on a number of occassions along with some of her friends attacked my integrity and sanity because I disagree with them.
I have stated and will continue to say that the IDC (organized anti Gaines) blog site is a place where only those who desire to brain wash people against Dr. Gaines are allowed to speak. The former people of the savingbellvue site just moved locations and yes Karebear is a well known frequent blogger.
I don't have to go there to know what they think about me as long I support BBC and Dr. Gaines they hate me and will stop at nothing to vent, "their views"
Our enemies have been scattered! Thou has smitten the cheek of mine enemies! And shattered the teeth of the wicked! Be brave! Be strong!
NBBCOP,
Karen aka Karebear and "Savingbellevue" does it ring a bell? Go look up the post for your self. By the way, to set the record straight, I did make a post on the Mike Bratton site which states that I did not in any way imply that the parents of Karen abused her. Why did she assume that I thought such a thing?
I have noticed that occassionally you are letting some slip by you; some who actually make some sense. I want to commend you!
"If you can dish it out; you need to be able to take it"
Please someone, what does IDC stand for?
I saw that Karen.
And for the millionth time I pointed out that this blog is NOT affiliated with the IDC.
To Ms. Tapp....Heeeeeres your sign.
Rod,
IDC = Integrity Does Count.
Rod Almondmartanti said...
Please someone, what does IDC stand for?
REPLY:
INTEGRITY DOES COUNT
Miss Billie,
Dear lady, I have never seen anybody write as incoherently as you do. Your posts make no sense whatsoever. Even worse, only about 20% of what can be understood is correct.
Please madam, if you insist on posting here or elsewhere, 1. Get your facts correct, and 2. proofread your posts before publishing them.
Ms. Tapp,
What in the Sam Hill are you talking about with savingbellevue.com? You can't post there - it's a website. Are you talking about a letter or email that's posted there?
Lynn,
Let me quote myself from earlier today "you can't argue with crazy", so Ms. Tapp, I won't argue with you anymore. Just leave me alone - your integrity (or lack thereof) doesn't count here.
I sent you an emaail about the IDC website when it first came out - that makes their leader? I dance around my living room in my underwear, does that make me Madonna?
karen
seekinghiswill says:
"If you can dish it out; you need to be able to take it"
6:39 PM, May 29, 2007
Hmmm. Oh boy. Let the show begin....
BLOGGERS...
Have you EVER seen anybody quite as tactful as Charlie Fox???
I love it!
Ima
A quote from Ms. Tapp from the Bratton blog:
"Karen seems to be one of the ring leaders who can not see beyond what happened in her childhood."
Since I told you last December in my email about being abused by an ex husband, what exactly do you mean by the above statement?
And because I can cut and paste an URL address into an email that I sent to you, how does that make me a "ringleader" of IDC?
Oh yeah, you can't argue with CRAZY PEOPLE = I keep forgetting! DUH!
karen
seekingwhoknowswhat,
What is your purpose here?
Did you come to apologize to Karen for being an asinine ninny?
If so, I reckon you should get to it. You have a lot to apologize for and little time.
karen said...
I dance around my living room in my underwear, does that make me Madonna?
REPLY:
SPEW!!!!!!!!!!!
Sure got quiet in here. Was it the underwear statement? Good job Charlie.
Hola J'all,
Just got back from my camping trip in Kansas. Boy, I sure hate missing the conversation about Pastor Gass.
Can I change my screen name to Tilton Razzberry?
The three letters posted on savingbellevue are very interesting.
Charlie,
I hope you installed the anti-spew screen before my Madonna caomment - wasn't exactly an original quote by me - $.10 to the 1st one who can name the movie!
I had to go cool off for a while, but I'm better now. Thanks to those who are coming to my defense.
Love ya!
Karen
Blessings to all,
I had to work on other projects for awhile and was behind on my blog reading. Have now caught up. There has been some wonderful, theologically based posts which I want to keep and reread. Thank you to those of you who are so gifted.
However, I did notice the few posts regarding my favorit fish tacos. Pleeeeze. I guess you all would not like the Crawfish BLT I had for lunch today either. Awesome.
Do not mean to deflect from topic, it has been an excellent discourse.
While, "seekingHISwill" I came across a group of bloggers located at this web site:info@integritydoescount (IDC) you can click on New BBC Open Forum and see if you can find HIS will there. I have passed on through their garbage learning that these people do not seekHiswill and their way is obviously the wrong route.
Please readers do not get stuck when you cross their path. The people are brain washers and with time they will become experts. I have bid them farewell and continue the course of going with BBC who are seekingHIswill.
These so called, independant bloggers, not associated with IDC, only want God's will IF it is God's will to destroy the Gaines and the present staff members of Bellevue. NOPE GOD, "AIN'T" THERE!
Keep on seekingHiswill!
Karen and others: have you learned how it hurts to be blogged with bit and pieces of information placed together to form wrong information in the minds of readers? If you have then you can identify with Brother Steve and many others, whom you have so brutally blogged.
Should WE offer a public apology?
"Yep" call me when you are ready you will find me seekingHiswill.
I think seekinghiswill should remove the combined "hi" from his or her screen name.
Just say'n
To seekinghiswill,
I pray that you will endeavor to seek a little deeper.
In the intro for this thread, our Blog Master asked "Did you ever "sense" anything wasn't quite right but couldn't put your finger on it?"
It appears many have sensed that several things were not quite right and thanks to their discernment, have put their fingers all over it.
Can someone tell me the link to the BRATton Blog?
seekinghiswill said,
Karen and others: have you learned how it hurts to be blogged with bit and pieces of information placed together to form wrong information in the minds of readers? If you have then you can identify with Brother Steve and many others, whom you have so brutally blogged.
Should WE offer a public apology?
"Yep" call me when you are ready you will find me seekingHiswill.
Reply: My, you are quite the vindictive person, aren't you? Hate exudes from your post. Seeking His will you are not. What you are doing though, is to prove what ding dong you are. Keep proving it. We like it.
4years,
You want Bratton's blog? Ask seekingswill for that.
When I think of the sorry state of the world, the needless wars, Darfur, murder and mahem, so much death and suffering, poverty, etc., I find the idea of someone being "brutally blogged" quite funny.
Awe, curses, did he need stitches?
The man's fat, rich and well-rested--direct your pity to someone who needs it. If a blog is all he suffers for his stupidity regarding the pedophile, then he gets off easy. He should be looking for another job, period. In retail, I might add.
lovecakes said....
"The man's fat, rich and well-rested--direct your pity to someone who needs it. If a blog is all he suffers for his stupidity regarding the pedophile, then he gets off easy. He should be looking for another job, period. In retail, I might add.
9:38 PM, May 29, 2007 "
Used car salesman think the guy's no good.
Lovecakes said,
I think seekinghiswill should remove the combined "hi" from his or her screen name.
BWAH HA HA!
I've read some interesting commentary on the book of 3 John. It might help those struggling with the issues:
"The book of 3 John deals with the biggest of problems - power struggles in the church. There are three typical church members:
Gaius, the beloved believer (greeting to this godly and generous man v. 1-8)
Diotrephes, the domineering disciple (denunciation of his dictatorial ways v. 9-11) and
Demetris, the complimented Christian (v. 12-14).
The key word in 3 John is TRUTH.
As Martin Luther has said "Peace if possible, but truth at any rate".Truth is the foundation of love in a Christian fellowship.
Diptrephes has violated the truth and sought "to have the preeminence" v. 9 The high-handed methods of some men in modern church life were present in this early church. Horace Mann said, "Keep one thing forever in view-the truth: and if you do this, though it may seem to lead you away from the opinion of men, it will assuredly conduct you to the throne of God." Emerson said, "God offers to every mind its choice between truth and repose (peace). Take which you please-you can never have both."
Dig deep in the truth of 3 John. The hard work will bring a rich reward."
Karen said...
Charlie,
I hope you installed the anti-spew screen before my Madonna caomment - wasn't exactly an original quote by me - $.10 to the 1st one who can name the movie!
REPLY:
Working Girl!!! I prefer payment be made by Cashier's Check, if you please!!!!
Miss Billie,
You obviously didn't read my previous post to you.
Let me repeat it for you.
Miss Billie,
Dear lady, I have never seen anybody write as incoherently as you do. Your posts make no sense whatsoever. Even worse, only about 20% of what can be understood is correct.
Please madam, if you insist on posting here or elsewhere, 1. Get your facts correct, and 2. proofread your posts before publishing them.
4years said...
Can someone tell me the link to the BRATton Blog?
http://thebrattonreport.blogspot.com/
Just ran across a series of four videos by Gary Gilley on Christian Research Network which explains extremely well the Purpose Driven Life and the Emergent Church. Of the two, I personally think the latter is much more dangerous which Bro. Gilley points out. If there is ANY doubt in your minds...well, no nevermind that; please watch this and email it to those you feel would benefit from it. I get many emails from people asking me what exactly is all this...this will explain it to you very well. Please do take the time to watch these four short clips.
Click here to view.
Ima
shw wrote:
"I have bid them farewell and continue the course... "
Hallelujah!
Karen said...
I dance around my living room in my underwear, does that make me Madonna?
I do that, too! Does that make me Tom Cruise?
charleston foxtrot,
Name that movie, too, and I will double whatever Karen sends you! Do you accept PayPal?
lovecakes,
On an unrelated note, since my temporary moniker of love99mail met with a less than enthusiastic response, can I call myself junkcakes??
lovecakes said....
"The man's fat, rich and well-rested--direct your pity to someone who needs it. If a blog is all he suffers for his stupidity regarding the pedophile, then he gets off easy. He should be looking for another job, period. In retail, I might add.
Piglet says:
Thanks for that. Eloquent as usual. :)
I would have been here sooner but I've been trying all evening to get comments posted on SavingBellevue.....
Karen
Can you email me and tell me how to do that?
(snicker)
Ima
I know nobody is on the blog right now, but I wanted to leave you a note that I watched all the videos since my last post.
These are EXCELLENT videos and they do explain things very well! I plan to let my kids watch these during their regular Bible class time and discuss.
It is so scary when you think of the masses that are being drawn to a lie and will think they are saved and bound for heaven (or Nirvana - do you get to choose your own afterlife in the emerging church? weird).
These false teachings only further validate the scripture that warns us about them.....
Good night to any late night lurkers.
Good night, piglet.
Stayed up late & watched em too. Highly recommended. Nite all.
CONCERNEDSBCER,
You've got mail
i'vegotit said:
Brother Steve or the staff of BBC are not the problem they are in the fight with us.
-----------------
I read and re-read this post with disbelief and saddness. There is much sincerity but one can be sincere and yet sincerely wrong. I cannot comprehend how a person could have sat under the sound teaching of A. Rogers, be aware of all that has transpired since SG has come (the list of "It was a matter of the head and not the heart blunders" is too long to mention on this post), watch the spiritual "cream of the crop" (longtime members who invested not only their resources but their lives into Bellevue) depart the church they love (including our former pastor's wife), and come to the conclusions she/he has. My dear
igi, please put on your thinking cap, open your eyes to what is going on around you, and more importantly, search out God's Word, our plumb-line. We are indeed in spiritual warfare. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places...Stand therefore having your loins girded about with TRUTH"
(Ephes. 6:12,14).
Lin said...
bystander,
What do you consider to be the non-essentials?
5:52 PM, May 29, 2007
Reply from Bystander:
I have been reading back through the blog trying to decide whether the 'atmosphere' is conducive for a concilitory dialogue. Or a 'coming together'...or mutual agreement...on any subject. I get the impression there are pretty much 2 sides on the blog: the right side, and the wrong side.
The 'spirit' of my posts has been toward trying to allow for a dialogue to evolve where we all might find some common ground.
I don't get the sense that your question is wanting to start that kind of dialogue so much as to hear what I have to say in order to pick it apart. I'm just basing that on my experience here. I would like to think I'm wrong about that.
That's why, in a previous post, I suggested that those who have drawn the tight circle suggest a starting point-more because I think I'm willing to accept a lot/most/all of what might be suggested (although I don't know that to be the case for sure-just looking for a starting point). And frankly, I don't like getting attacked anymore than the next guy. And I definitely sense that I'm in the minority here (smile). Most people that might have represented a view like mine have tried, become frustrated, lashed out in frustration and become socially unacceptable (cursing, name calling, etc.) and been banned from the blog! So there aren't many of me. (smile again).
If you forced me to begin the dialogue, and since I'm not Southern Baptist, I'd suggest starting with something like the Apostle's Creed. Christians throughout history have found that to be common ground. I'd prefer a simpler, shorter, 'statement of common ground'. What do you think?
Bystander said:
. I get the impression there are pretty much 2 sides on the blog: the right side, and the wrong side.
The 'spirit' of my posts has been toward trying to allow for a dialogue to evolve where we all might find some common ground.
--------------
Again, this is a good example of situational ethics/relativism (which our liberal "friends" espouse)entering the church. Bystander, there is a time for dialogue and then there is a time to stand for TRUTH. When it comes to absolutes, may I point out that there is right and there is wrong. There is no middle ground. We are not to compromise what is right in God's eyes just to get along. I do, however, believe we should strive to "agree to disagree without being disagreeable" - A. Rogers.
I've visited River Oaks Pres. myself and can vouch for the church. The pastor is a very friendly and warm individual and a fine preacher. Like most Presbyterian churches...at least the majority of PCA churches, they subscribe to the regulative principle of worship, which means they introduce nothing into worship that is not prescribed by scripture. Of course they are "reformed" in their theology, so if that's a problem for anyone, you may not care for it.
I would also invite anyone to visit South Woods Baptist, which is where I've been attending. The pastor there is also very warm and approachable, and also a very fine preacher and teacher. The worship there is very reverent and the minister of music is also a very warm person, and his love for the Lord as he leads the congregation in worship is evident. I will be meeting with the pastor soon to ask a few questions about the church, and am praying for God's leading as to membership there. I would encourage anyone looking for a church home to at least visit once. Not trying to tell anyone what they should do, but I do know it's not good for a child of God to be a "floater", unattached to a local body of believers.
Allofgrace, Thank you for posting that. I think I will ask NASS if she can make a thread for reporting only church visits. That would be so helpful. I am finding some churches have "activities" on their websites that are unfamiliar. I am trying to research some of those.
junk99mail said...
Karen said...
I dance around my living room in my underwear, does that make me Madonna?
I do that, too! Does that make me Tom Cruise?
charleston foxtrot,
Name that movie, too, and I will double whatever Karen sends you! Do you accept PayPal?
REPLY:
RISKY BUSINESS. PayPal is welcomed.
bystander said...
If you forced me to begin the dialogue, and since I'm not Southern Baptist,
REPLY:
Bystander, with all due respect, here in lies the problem.
allofgrace said...
I would also invite anyone to visit South Woods Baptist, which is where I've been attending
REPLY:
AOG, I know you are a Calvinist and therefore, would be comfortable at SWB. However, others not not be so comfortable there.
charlie,
It's just an open invitation...for any who might be interested. I'm mostly just encouraging folks to find a local body to become a part of. Regardless of personal theology, not every church will be a "fit" for every person, but we all need the fellowship of a local congregation where we can serve and grow. I'm concerned for those displaced by all this, and I know how easy it is to just float, and also how easy it is to become cynical about church life and reticent to join another fellowship. You all are in my prayers.
AOG,
I totally agree with you. I know all appreciate your concern. All are free to choose, but knowing the facts helps in making the choice.
Charlie Fox said...
bystander said...
If you forced me to begin the dialogue, and since I'm not Southern Baptist,
REPLY:
Bystander, with all due respect, here in lies the problem.
8:23 AM, May 30, 2007
Reply to Charlie Fox:
?Charlie Fox, I don't understand. Are you saying there IS no dialogue if I'm not Southern Baptist? I was under the impression this was an open forum discussion? Have I missed something?
bystander said...
Reply to Charlie Fox:
?Charlie Fox, I don't understand. Are you saying there IS no dialogue if I'm not Southern Baptist? I was under the impression this was an open forum discussion? Have I missed something?
REPLY:
Not at all. If you are not very familiar with Southern Baptist, it just makes the type dialogue, you are offering, a bit more strained. I would have a difficult time discussing PARTICULAR church problems with an Episcopal, a Presbyterian, or a Catholic, because I am not intimately familiar with their denominational workings.
Piglet said..."Ima......I wanted to leave you a note that I watched all the videos since my last post.
These are EXCELLENT videos and they do explain things very well! I plan to let my kids watch these during their regular Bible class time and discuss."
Reply: Thanks Piglet. They are excellent and what a great idea to let your children view them. They are conducive to that idea or in any area where an introduction/explanation to these heresies are needed.
"It is so scary when you think of the masses that are being drawn to a lie and will think they are saved and bound for heaven (or Nirvana - do you get to choose your own afterlife in the emerging church? weird)."
Reply: YES! This is the danger of these movements...counterfeit salvation. I said this to my former pastor and he stuck his finger in my face and accused me of being judgemental! I have really had to do some soul-searching to clear myself of that! The Bible tells us we will be known by our fruit. That was my answer. We can't sit back with blinders on trying to hide our faces in the sand...trying NOT to make decisions for fear of being judgemental. I say if people are listening to worldly, watered down gospel...they aren't hearing Truth!
"These false teachings only further validate the scripture that warns us about them....."
Reply: My feelings exactly Piglet! I am happy you watched these videos. Gary Gilley has been a favorite on my list for about three years now...when all this stuff surfaced in my life. Maybe a little longer now. I have read a couple of his books and many, many of his articles. He ranks on up there with the best, such as Bob DeWaay and John MacArthur.
I plan to save these videos as education material.
Ima
Wow - do I feel dumb now? Gee, Ms. Tapp sure taught me a lesson, huh? NOT!
If this is how members of Bellevue want to treat each other, Ms. Tapp, I no longer want to be a member. Take your precious Bellevue and drive into the ground for all I care anymore. Your behavior has just proven to me that I no longer want anything to do with BBC. As I said before, keep my name out of your mouth and off your keyboard. You are a vicious, vindictive woman - just remember God is watching what you've done over the last 2 or so days and if you think you've honored Him by "calling me out", then you are also delusional. But keep on trucking, lady! You sure know how to make friends and influence people.
karen
Charlie Fox,
Good for you! I owe you a dime! :)
karen
bystander,
Maybe in our search for common ground we should turn to the WORD. After all, as brothers/sisters we should be able to unify around the WORD and avoid the denominational differences we may have. Let's try.
Mark 10:42 But Jesus called them [to him], and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
10:44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Now we have Jesus in his own words outlining the job of a minister. We see conflict here among the disciples as to who is going to be "first" and we see Paul admonish Diotrephes in 3 John 1:10-11 for the same thing.
Now we have a minister....a Pastor, that refers to himself as a benevolent dictator. Is this acting more like a servant or more like a ruler of the Gentiles? (Mk 10:42)
We have a minister who comes in and appears to rule over rather than serve the congregation. The members of the church that hired him. Add to this statements like "I talk you listen, he he" and "you may be more comfortable serving at another church" and we find a minister, well...not acting like one in the Biblical sense.
Now would Jesus admonish Dr. Gaines for what he has done or condone it? Would Paul admonish Steve for what he has done or condone it?
When is the last time you heard of a servant telling the members of the house what they were going to listen to, how they were going to worship, and even tell them to get out if they don't like the way the servant wants to do things? Kinda backward, huh?
Maybe the house was used to a servant and are choking at a ruler. Is the house Gentile or Jew? Romans 2:29
Karen,
You see then why I didn't delete "shw's" posts? If they weren't so sad they'd be funny.
Keep it up, Ms. Tapp. You're not doing yourself or "Brother Steve" any favors.
Anyone remember this exchange from a few months ago?
Ms. Tapp wrote, "I believe as John Calvin believed that if you accept even one point of his tulip you are accepted as a Calvinist," and that the only way she'd not support Steve Gaines is if he ever admitted he's really a Calvinist.
And so this comment was posted:
Piglet said...
Ms. Billie,
I post as Piglet, but in reality I am Steve Gaines.
I am a Calvinist.
Please stop trying to help me.
11:52 PM, December 26, 2006
Five months later, and I still laugh whenever I think of this!
So she really makes it easy. SG doesn't have to be a 5-point Calvinist, or even a 3 or 4-point Calvinist, just a one-point Calvinist. (Is there such a thing?)
NASS,
Glad I read that after finishing my Chocolate Chip Frapp. Spewing that would have been quite the mess! :)
karen
bystander,
Then we have this.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.
12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love [his] neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Now if we look at this passage, we find that Jesus knows that the scribe is not far from the kingdom.....because the scribe understands that to love God and to love your neighbor is better than sacrifice....yet we have a minister that emphasises tithing and tells churh members to leave if they don't like his changes....Does not sound too loving now, does it? How about all the love shown the people that have left? The older people? The ex music minister?
So a key ingredient and the chief commandments seem to be only guidelines again....followed when we feel like it. At ones own discretion.
Karen said...
Charlie Fox,
Good for you! I owe you a dime! :)
karen
REPLY:
Thanx. I will contact my broker for an investment plan.
Karen wrote:
"Glad I read that after finishing my Chocolate Chip Frapp. Spewing that would have been quite the mess! :)"
Yeah, especially if you got it on your mink coat. I've had to have mine cleaned twice already this week!
Be thankful that your not like Doc Loney...if he spews stuff on his fur coat....to clean it he has to take a bath...back hair braids and all.
In gentleness and humility I write:
"As Jesus and His disciples were leaving Jericho, a large crowd followed Him. Two blind men were sitting by the roadside, and when they heard that Jesus was going by, they shouted, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on us!" The crowd rebuked them and told them to be quiet, but they shouted all the more, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on us!"
Karen, in all honesty, and in gentleness of spirit I want to remind you that it was you who called me out by name and I responded to your call and it was you who got my attention. (mink coat) I am not one in the crowd who tells anyone who is seeking His will to shut up and go away. I do believe that you desire to follow Jesus and not man. I do not follow any man but I am encouraged to discover that some men are following Jesus Christ. I am blessed to be married to one of them and I know this because I see the evidence in his life. He is not perfect and he makes some poor decisions from time to time, but overall I know his heart is to do those things that please God. I, also, know Brother Steve and I know that he desires to walk close to Jesus and I am blessed and encouraged by his determination to listen to the Lord instead of the crowd who tells him that he is not following Jesus.
With gentleness and true humility I want to encourage you to listen closely to Jesus Christ. Jesus is leading believers to the spiritual Jerusalem and preparing us for the New Jerusalem where He will return (the same place He left from) If anyone tells you to focus somewhere else (on the flaws and faults of people) they are misleading you. Return to the verses of Scripture (Matt. 20) notice where Jesus was coming from and where He was leading the crowd. Ask yourself what was Jesus telling this crowd all along the way that they could not understand? If they had understood what they were heading into was necessary in order to get to where Jesus wanted them to go they would not have abandoned Him. Some understood later on, such as Peter and they became the early church founders.
Remember I am speaking in humility and gentleness of spirit with this statement: I believe with all of my heart that God has given us a Pastor who loves Jesus and he knows where Jesus is leading him, the same as I and my husband. If we did not believe this we would not be in BBC. If the Holy Spirit shows us something contrary we will be among the first to walk on. Some bloggers expound on common errors of judgement that all people make but the Holy Spirit shows us the Spirit moving the heart of our Pastor toward the same place He is leading us.
I harbor no hard feelings toward you or any of those who focus on the man Steve Gaines instead of the servant Pastor Steve. Don't focus on any MAN he will let you down, focus on Jesus and be thankful that there are some men who shares your focus. I read this site often and over and over again I see the focus is on a man and as one looking in it is obvious that the intent is get rid of the man. I understand what you are saying and what you are doing but be careful and do not destroy the heart of that man and his zest to Pastor a crowd. We agree that we need godly men to pastor but let us encourage and not discourage them.
I really hope and pray that you get to read this before it is deleted.
oh preacher! I am so "ICKED OUT" now! Fully body shudder in disgust - no offense Dr. Loney! :)
By the way, never mess with a woman who saves her emails! Anyone notice how Ms. Billie backpeddled not once (it was KM from savingbellevue), not twice (it was karebear from savingbellevue), but THREE TIMES (oh, how does it feel to be misrepresented, like Steve Gaines). Well, I guess I'll quote ole Steve: "I'd rather be flogged, than blogged". :)
karen
Ms. Tapp,
I don't believe a word you say based on your back peddling of the last few days, so while I appreciate you taking the time to type your latest missive, your humility and gentleness to me is laughable. You have burned a bridge and I feel the only reason you are writing to me now is that you've damaged your witness. Just leave it alone, ok? It's not worth my time to make you look bad - you do that very well on your own.
karen
SeekingHisWill said...
I understand what you are saying and what you are doing but be careful and do not destroy the heart of that man and his zest to Pastor a crowd. We agree that we need godly men to pastor but let us encourage and not discourage them.
REPLY:
Thank you for finally submitting a coherent post.
Dear Lady can you not see that Dr. Gaines is the one doing the destroying and not the one being destroyed? Have you not wondered why numerous staff members have quit? Do you not see all the empty seats in the pews, choir and orchestra? Do you not wonder where all those people have gone and why they have gone? Do you not wonder why so many teachers and other lay workers have quit? Do you not know that the exodus from BBC is far from over? Have you not noticed that many, many of those that have left have been members of BBC for many, many years and are some of the strongest Christians that one could hope for? Do Truth, Transparency and Intregrity mean nothing to you?
Dear Lady ask youself these questions. It is time for you to open your eyes and see what is REALLY going on.
seekinghiswill said :
I harbor no hard feelings toward you or any of those who focus on the man Steve Gaines instead of the servant Pastor Steve. Don't focus on any MAN he will let you down, focus on Jesus and be thankful that there are some men who shares your focus. I read this site often and over and over again I see the focus is on a man and as one looking in it is obvious that the intent is get rid of the man. I understand what you are saying and what you are doing but be careful and do not destroy the heart of that man and his zest to Pastor a crowd.
Reply: Seeking...I know this post was for Karen but I must respond to the part of your post above.
Here in is the one of the problems...you ask to separate the MAN Steve Gaines from the servant Pastor Steve...you can't do that. Pastoring, like being a christian isn't what you do, it is who you are. If one doesn't line up with the other, then there is a problem. Steve says one thing in the pulpit (pastor steve) and then lives/says another thing outside of the pulpit(the man steve gaines). Do you not see that the two cannot be separated?
It is our focus on Jesus which leads us to call out this disqualified man out of the pulpit. There are deacons that need to be relieved of their "leadership" responsibilities.
I cannot worry about "destroying the heart of a man who has a zest to pastor a crowd". He is destroying a church & wounding sheep. Donna calls us trash & we must be taken out. You suggest we submit to that ???
Your last statement troubles me most of all...
"We agree that we need godly men to pastor but let us encourage and not discourage them."
In reality you are saying, Yes, the Bible calls for our Leaders to be godly, holy, above reproach, rightly dividing the Word of God....BUT ... lets don't worry about that now...we don't want to hurt little stevie's feelings. We need to encourage him while he rips apart BBC. Misuses BBC money/credit cards ect.
As Dr. Rogers used to say " there is a greek word for that..Bologna".
That is the exact attitude that keeps disqualified men in the pulpit.
I mean that in the kindest possible way.
there is a lot more I would like to address but I don't have the time.
When SG first came to Bellevue doing that series on what he believed, didn't he say he goes along with the 1st 3 points of Calvinism? At least that is what I remember.
Carol T. said...
When SG first came to Bellevue doing that series on what he believed, didn't he say he goes along with the 1st 3 points of Calvinism? At least that is what I remember
Reply: Carol...Whatever Steve said he believes, I am now sure, has changed. It will continue to change depending on who he needs to please or buddy up to. The sad part is that any recording that states what he believes has probably been "edited" to get rid of any evidence.
What he really believes is the gospel according to Steve. He is the head of the church. His apostles (deacons) follow right along.
I mean that in the kindest possible way.
Carol t,
Yes your memory is correct. He distinctly said that he was not a 5 point calvanist but did agree with at least 3 of the points.
In gentleness and humility, I write a response to WillSeeker.
Ms. Seeking said: I harbor no hard feelings toward you or any of those who focus on the man Steve Gaines instead of the servant Pastor Steve.
Reply: Please elaborate on how Steve Gaines exhibits any attibutes of a servant.
Thanks.
Lily
Karen said...
Charlie Fox,
Good for you! I owe you a dime! :)
karen
Charleston Foxtrot,
I guess that means I owe you 20 cents! But have no fear ... I don't mind owing people too much, even though I'd rather owe no man anything other than love. :)
karen & junk,
Your financial debts to me are forgiven. The slate has been wiped clean.
Charlie Fox said...
karen & junk,
Your financial debts to me are forgiven. The slate has been wiped clean.
Hallelujah!
DID SOMEONE ELSE CALL MY NAME?
I am so sorry but the Lord has moved on and I have tarred here too long; I have got to run and catch up. I don't want to be left behind! Hope you join up with me somewhere along the way I love having companions to share the excitement with and I know Jesus loves all people regardless what they wear or how they sing praises to Him or what their check book looks like.
Leave all the junk behind, get up and walk on like Brother Steve says, "Don't look at him or any other man" Sorry.... I just heard the horn blow!
SeekingHisWill said...
DID SOMEONE ELSE CALL MY NAME?
I am so sorry but the Lord has moved on and I have tarred here too long; I have got to run and catch up. I don't want to be left behind! Hope you join up with me somewhere along the way I love having companions to share the excitement with and I know Jesus loves all people regardless what they wear or how they sing praises to Him or what their check book looks like.
Leave all the junk behind, get up and walk on like Brother Steve says, "Don't look at him or any other man" Sorry.... I just heard the horn blow!
Reply: WHAT? Off meds again?
Yes, the Lord has moved on but you weren't on the bus. I am not sure I want to catch up with you until I know your destination. If steve is your leader, no thanks!
Will not follow that leader.
Seeking, remember...There is a way that seems right unto a man...but the end thereof leads to destruction. Be careful of following Steve. You will end up as road kill under his machine.
Not sure what horn you are hearing but ......
Could it be Steve tooting his own horn again?
Or is Steve calling his blind, nieve sheep for the slaughter?
That is what folks do when you play in the street....Get back on the sidewalk....JMO
PreacherDude777 said:
“Pastoring, like being a Christian isn't what you do, it is WHO YOU ARE. If one doesn't line up with the other, then there is a problem.” (Emphasis mine)
REPLY:
PD777, that should be the quote of the day – no, of the week. What a different world this would be if people could grasp the amazing truth wrapped up in that simple statement!
Hey folks...SHW said, "Sorry.... I just heard the horn blow!"
Reply: Don't y'all worry none 'bout this! She's just hearing things...
SHW said:
I am so sorry but the Lord has moved on and I have tarred here too long; I have got to run and catch up. I don't want to be left behind!
I guess SHW needs to go looking for the feathers (i.e. tarred, get it?) elsewhere.
In all sincerity, my heart goes out to Miss Billie. She is one seriously delusioned lady. The dear lady doesn't have a clue.
Hey Charlie,
She commented to me about her not leaving until the Holy Spirit led her to. I feel the Holy Spirit has led me to do what I'm doing - working with IDC, etc.
How does that work? Is God pitting me against Ms. Billie for a reason? Is her Holy Spirit wrong - is mine?
karen
Bystander wrote:. I get the impression there are pretty much 2 sides on the blog: the right side, and the wrong side.
The 'spirit' of my posts has been toward trying to allow for a dialogue to evolve where we all might find some common ground."
I have to agree with 32+ on this. This is NOT about personal 'sides'. It is not about common ground. It is about truth of scripture.
That is why I asked the non essential question. It was not a trick or a bait into an arguement..it is a very important question.
As to the 'Creeds'. Most GCM churches have statements of belief published somewhere that are scripturally correct. The problem is that they don't really believe them or they would not be so man centered.
Those statements or creeds or just not a good example of orthopraxy of a church.
seekinghiswill,
What?
seekinghiswill said,
In gentleness and humility I write:
Remember I am speaking in humility and gentleness of spirit
Karen, in all honesty, and in gentleness of spirit
With gentleness and true humility
Remember I am speaking in humility and gentleness of spirit
Reply: Whoa. For the last couple of days you have been a vindictive wench. You have been nothing but mean to Karen. Now all of the sudden you get humility and gentleness. I guess you got your meds adjusted. Congratulations.
I'm not going to mess with the rest of what you posted. Others have done well to try to tell you how misled you are. You tell us you have a Godly husband. Good, maybe you should listen to him then. I bet if he is Godly, he would have told you not to post false information against Karen. Of course, I am reminded that you had this recent 'gentleness and humility' thing occur to you. Once again, congratulations on your med adjustment.
Since you have had this change of spirit, when will you apologize to Karen?
Just asking. Let's see how humble you really are.
Karen said...
Hey Charlie,
She commented to me about her not leaving until the Holy Spirit led her to. I feel the Holy Spirit has led me to do what I'm doing - working with IDC, etc.
How does that work? Is God pitting me against Ms. Billie for a reason? Is her Holy Spirit wrong - is mine?
REPLY:
I do not know the answer to your question concerning you and BT. However, IMHO, the Holy Spirit isn't leading her much of anywhere, or her eyes would be open to see the TRUTH. You certainly aren't wrong to be working with IDC.
If you have to tell people you are gentle and humble then you are not.
If you have to tell people you are in charge you are not.
If you have to tell people they have to respect you, they will not.
If you have to tell your congregation they have to submit to your authority instead of the Lord's authority, they will not.
If you have to tell people to leave if you don't like it, they probably will but most people won't have to be told to leave.
We live in a world today where absolutes don't seem to exist in some churches any longer.
Unfortunately, our Bellevue has forgotten what the Word says about sin in and outside of the pulpit and the leadership of the church.
It doesn't seem to bother or outrage anyone in the pews anymore.
Quoting John Murray . . .
A shepherd protects his sheep from their enemies. Wolves enter in among the sheep. The wolves which harass the church of God are emissaries of false doctrine and of evil practice. Satan is never out of his diocese and his specialty is to destroy the pure witness and the fellowship of the church of God. Perhaps there is no more ominous feature of members of the church than the lack of discernment; they can listen to what is good and true, and to what is bad and false, without discrimination. If we are to live in a world where the enemy is active and error is rampant, we must be imbued with a good measure of critical faculty, and here the elders in tending the flock must cultivate for themselves, and inculcate in the members of the church, that sensitivity to truth and right, so that they and the people will be able to detect the voice of the enemy.
Jesus said of His sheep, "a stranger will they not follow,
for they know not the voice of strangers" (John 10:5).
But this discernment does not operate in a vacuum, and it does not act mechanically; it acts in the context of intelligent apprehension and understanding of the truth.
Speaking of discernment, I am looking at websites of different Baptist Churches in the area and have found them to be very telling. Do you see any red flag here?
Take the PrayerJourney of XXXXXX
(Chruch Name)
The Prayer Journey Begins
Station One - Ask the Lord to Prepare Your Heart Station Two - Pray for Faith
Station Three - Pray for the churches in our area
Station Four - Pray for the Places of Employment
Station Five - Pray for those within your sphere of influence
Station Six - Pray for the Nation
Station Seven - Pray for God's Glory and Renown to spread rapidly
Station Eight - Be Still
Station Nine - Pray for All the Nations of the World
Station Ten - Lord, Let me be the answer
It sounds like Roman Catholic malarkey to me – their stations of the cross and their social gospel. Is this a Baptist Church? Oh, and BTW, the very first emerging church effort began with Rome’s ecumenical movement.
Carol T. said...
When SG first came to Bellevue doing that series on what he believed, didn't he say he goes along with the 1st 3 points of Calvinism? At least that is what I remember.
As I recall, he said he does not believe that pts 3 and 4 are in the Bible...which would be limited atonement and irresistible grace.
Poor Ms. Billie, if she recalls what SG stated re: his attachment to Calvinism, she may well be more than a suffering soul at this moment. Let's pray for her.
Lily
AOG mentioned "irresistible grace".
Please elaborate. I like the sound of it, but do not truly understand the scriptural meaning.
Thanks.
Lily
BLT and AOG: Yes, I'm interested too.
:)
I am on vacation and drove through Gardendale yesterday. Kinda made me want to stop and ask around...but I didn't. Did make me pray more for BBC.
I hope SOTL is having fun on the cruise...missing much good discussion and some wacky stuff from Seeking. It keeps us on our knees, doesn't it?
concernedsbcer
Aaaaaah, vacation. Must be nice....
Enjoy. :)
Mary said...
It sounds like Roman Catholic malarkey to me –
Reply: Does it remind you of SG and the "prayer walks" that began at Bellevue under Paul Williams?
This is on Faith Baptist's updated website.
Actually, "effectual grace" would be a better description of the doctrine. The word "irresistible" tends to make people think it means God drags men kicking and screaming against their will to Christ, which is not what the doctrine means. What it DOES mean, is that beginning with God's eternal purpose to save a people out of fallen humanity (election), and by Christ's atonement at the cross as their substitute, God the Holy Spirit, at the appointed time, and through the preaching of the gospel, works in the chosen sinner powerfully and effectually so that a change of heart is wrought in him by regeneration (new birth), giving him a new nature and making him aware of his sinfulness, his helplessness, and the danger his soul is in, and enabling him to understand the gospel, and apprehend Christ as the only suitable sacrifice for sin, he, by virtue of the new birth, seeks mercy and willingly, lovingly, and without reservation casts his hope and trust in Christ alone as his redeemer. This is a work which man cannot do within himself...because he is dead in trespasses and sins, and requires this work of God in him in order for him to be saved. Salvation is by free grace...grace that is sovereign and effectual.
Churchmouse said...
Does it remind you of SG and the "prayer walks" that began at Bellevue under Paul Williams?
This is on Faith Baptist's updated website.
Reply:
Churchmouse, I went to Faith’s website to read this and I’m totally heartsick. I’ve visited Faith several times and I was planning to visit again this Sunday. But now I don’t know. I’ll go back to the website tomorrow when I’m not so tired and read the entire thing and then decide.
Thanks for the heads-up.
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