Here is the two-part motion that was on the floor when the March 25th "business" meeting was abruptly adjourned. What about either part of this motion was so objectionable that the meeting would have to be shut down?
Motion for Quarterly Business Meetings
Mr. Chairman, Bellevue leadership, I want to express my sincere gratitude for the effort you have made to have an open line of communication between yourselves and the Bellevue congregation. There are obviously many positives that will come out of this openness between the leadership and the congregation of Bellevue. With that said I move to begin having quarterly business meetings on any Sunday night of the last month of each quarter.
Motion on the Sexual Integrity of Ministers
I move that Bellevue Baptist Church affirm and adopt as its own, the June 2002 resolution of the Southern Baptist Convention entitled On The Sexual Integrity Of Ministers, as stated below, and the scriptural basis upon which the resolution stands.
Watch the proceedings.
Remember to sign the Petition to Call Bellevue Baptist Church into an Open Business Meeting and forward the link to your fellow Bellevue members.
426 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 426 Newer› Newest»SOTL,
Since SG doesn't believe in scriptural qualifications for a minister
and since the blind choose to "not get involved in all that mess" because they TRUST the leadership....
what difference does it make HOW MANY times that deviant hurt his victims.??
According to the leadership....no real reason he shouldn't still be in the ministry......
Lynn
Visited anywhere? I know there are nice people at Faith (Karen) and Covenant (concernedsbcer) and GBC (me!). Any of these would be glad to meet you at the door on Sunday, I'm sure, so you wouldn't be in a corner - and grouchy.
gmommylv
Yeah, he's forgiven, right? Why, let's give him a preschool class to teach! That's REAL forgiveness.
After all, if there are consequences for sin, then there must not be any forgiveness, right? Isn't this the new theology at BBC?
Piglet said...
Lynn
Visited anywhere? I know there are nice people at Faith (Karen) and Covenant (concernedsbcer) and GBC (me!). Any of these would be glad to meet you at the door on Sunday, I'm sure, so you wouldn't be in a corner - and grouchy.
10:58 PM, May 08, 2007
I've visited Faith a few times. I Love it there, but they don't really have a good singles department. (That could change with all of the BBC people coming there and such).
Lynn
Oh, yeah. I do remember you saying that now. Sorry, I forgot.
You don't know any singles who have left BBC?
Piglet,
The only ones I have talked to have their heads in the sand. And think I'm looney lol.
Lynn
That must be hard - and I would hate visiting around by myself. I can't relate because I've been married since puberty :).
However, I think we are all out of our comfort zone here. And after what we've been through it would be too easy to drop out and be cynical.
God is stretching us.
I'll pray for you, okay? You need a church home and christian friends to support you.
Especially now. And maybe GBC is further away from you - but it might be worth the drive...
Wasn't Cakes comments sweet today???
I get told how wrong I am by a "Christian" person and hear insensitive,hurtful things I can't believe I am hearing to my face BUT
I am encouraged and held up by the tender heart of our own sweetcakes... who says he isn't a Christian...???
so (pausing for a reality check) I should be really upset if I thought all was right with the world and BBC and SG....right?????
Lynn,
Are you a young single???
gmommylv
All is NOT right. Just the openness and business meetings at other churches should be very telling when you compare them to what we are seeing at BBC. If there is nothing to hide, you hide nothing.
There is much hidden at BBC. Scary when you think of everything we KNOW and have SEEN for ourselves. I know it seems like the twilight zone sometimes - just review the timeline when you start to doubt your own sanity.
I just get weary and lonely in this mess. I know you understand.
gmommylv said...
Lynn,
Are you a young single???
11:18 PM, May 08, 2007
Yeah, I'm 26.
This is the part that is embarrassing about my being single.....
I could be your mom,Lynn. You may know my children....
OK....time to laugh about nothing and anything. It has been a long stressful day.
Madam blog person...I bet if you are near by...you have some humor to add to this sad party.....
gmommylv
Yes - weary. But it has been a great comfort to know so many others who see things so clearly. This blog has helped in that regard.
I remember when my Mom was showing the first signs of alzheimers (in her early fifties) and I asked my sister if she had noticed. It was hard to bring this up but she said she had noticed and hadn't said anything.
After that, we could lean on eachother and support my Dad (who was in denial) in getting her help.
This feels similiar to me. We do what we can but we can't stop what is happening. Atleast we can lean on eachother as we watch something we love change into something we no longer recognize. I'm glad God is there for us - but also gave us one another.
Maybe NASS can find the video of the fence climbing - the one where the four little old ladies show up......
I want to have a symbolic funeral,wake,good bye to the BBC we once knew.
I want to find out what the city will allow as far as a peaceful,lawful quiet,brief good bye/closure "something."
piglet,
I so agree. I am grateful for the friends I have made thru this blog...seen and not seen....and those special ones out of town too!
This IS a loss like your mom and other personal losses we have experienced individually....but now share with each other.
gmommylv,
I was considering a dust shaking ceremony one Saturday afternoon. I believe that standing in front of the big bronze Bible at the front of the church with the words from R.G. Lee would be a perfect place to clap the dust off my shoes.
If NASS can't find it, I would settle for a re-enactment.
I get to be one of the little old ladies!!!!!
Now who wants to play Steve, Mark, John and Chuck?.....
Tim,
Is that inside or outside????
Lynn: I'll meet you at Covenant at any time. You just let me know. No corners for you! And you know I'm "concerned!"
It's on the outside. Since the sewer pipes burst I don't want to go back inside again.
I said:
If NASS can't find it, I would settle for a re-enactment.
I get to be one of the little old ladies!!!!!
Now who wants to play Steve, Mark, John and Chuck?.....
Also: We would need special permission from Mr. Sharpe if we want to shoot the video "on location". We don't want to be guilty of trespassin'....:/
Would we need to check with the authorities first so we can have some protection???
I was thinking of leaving flowers...
I could buy a bunch from Sams and wrap some ribbon....
SOTL could help me....and we could go 2 or 3 at a time and leave our flowers or "dust our shoes"........
I wouldn't spend a plug nickel leaving flowers, weeds maybe or I guess you could pick up one of those big wreaths that are always sitting out on the lawn at Memphis Memorial (their free).
wreaths from the funeral....take them from graves??????
LOL
Tim,
one of my sweetest friends was in the SS class with you and your wife at GTB.
Well, I'm sure our "piglet" has natural piggie talent and sings beautifully, but the fact remains, trying to teach a pig to sing is a waste of time.
They only sing that one song....oink.
NASS
Do you want to be in my video? I can't really sing very well but I can swing a purse!
Sure that's where you get the best deal on flowers. But a word of advice. If you are going to take them home to your honey, watch out. You would think that the big ones would be really impressive to them bur for some reason it seems to have the opposite effect. I picked thorns out of from all over my body last time I brought one of the big ones homes.
Tim..
What in the heck are you saying???
You wife threw flowers at you..because you got them from Sams??
Or is this a joke I don't get....focus....wake/dusting......
A serious post from 25+ (for those seeking facts on this thread)
When leaders run from the truth they will find that few will want to hear them proclaim that they know the Truth.
Comunications committees, buffers between pastor and people, intimidation of those who far outnumber the required two or three witnesses required to bring an accusation against a pastor...
But the leadership controls whether any forum can occur to deal with the problems.
Pastors are not kings. Pastors are not high priests. The church is a priesthood of believers.
It is not the case that God has to send a Nathan to point at the pastor and say, "You are the man."
The scripture allows acusations to be brought by two or three witnesses. The scripture gives the forum for these to be brought (Mt. 18)-- before the church body.
Many have called for this to take place for months while Bellevue has continued to decline.
The plan so far has been to end the only session where the body of believers met so that the leadership could hear from the membership.
It appears that God is sending out His light and His truth to other congregations.
Without truth you will eventually have a church building without the church.
jmo
***********************************
The rest of you, commence with the levity. :)
I'm sure Tim's wife is a sweet lovely person and he is just pulling our leg. :/
gmommylv said
Tim,
one of my sweetest friends was in the SS class with you and your wife at GTB.
Piglet says:
Did his wife look like the abusive type? :)
piglet,
I feel very confident Tim's wife is a very sweet woman as well!!!
Our family was able to shake the dust from our shoes this past Sunday when we joined GBC. We have actually had people visit us more than once from GBC just for visiting with them. I am still waiting on a call from someone missing us from BBC, and we were quite active. When we left, everyone was pretty clear on where we stood so I guess they were glad to be rid of us. So far, every GBC member we have talked to that has an understanding of where we are coming from has been so encouraging! They have all said that we were welcome to visit, join, jump in with both feet, take refuge, whatever we need no matter how long. They would love us and support us. Now that's what I needed to hear. The Lord is blessing this church. I am thankful for the GBC members that fought for their church!
NASS
I'll take that as a "no". :(
Past my bedtime. G'nite y'all.
I'm SO happy for you, youthmomma.
Now, got to get my jammies....
No, No, No. Don't spend money at Sam's. I'm talking about the flowers that I bring home from Memphis Memorial. They just have them sitting out there in the field for the taking.
I thought "Rest in Peace" was a rather romantic phrase. I thought I would just say, "Hey, I'll do the dishes tonite, Rest in Peace".
It didn't work out so well. Just sayin'.
me too....g'nite!
Tim...didn't understand about the funeral place...got it now....Hey
I think that was a thoughtful gesture!!!
The dust shaking ceremony however, I am serious about. I would expect that if I published a date and time on the blog that it would require the National Guard be there.
That is why I say we call the authorities and get proper permit or whatever is needed...and protection from the police.
The KKK can lawfully do whatever they do....we can't ceremonially dust our shoes off..peacefully????
Goodnight, folks.
gmommylv wrote:
"Tim..
What in the heck are you saying???
You wife threw flowers at you..because you got them from Sams??"
No, silly. The cemetery!
nighty.....
nass....are you down in that basement???????
Yeah, mom and dad locked me in for the night. :-(
NASS..
you crack me up!!! LOL
Here's a young you know who
Junk,
Another one of those 'itty bitty' fences, huh?
"Oh, God, will You not judge them?
For we have no might against t his great company that comes against us, neither know we what to do; but our eyes are upon You" II Chronicles 20:12. (Jehoshaphat's prayer)
"Do not be afraid nor dismayed because of this great multitude; FOR THE BATTLE IS NOT YOURS BUT GOD'S" II Chron. 20:15.
(God's answer to that prayer)
"PEACE, I leave with you, My peace give I unto you; not as the world gives, give I unto you. LET NOT YOUR HEART BE TROUBLED NEITHER LET IT BE AFRAID" (John 14:27,28)
piglet said:
Was this before or after it became common knowledge that it occurred over a long period of time?
SOTL says:
It was before, BUT STILL...who, in their right mind, would dismiss the sodomy of a child, because it only happened once?
I KNEW that there was no way it only happened once..based on the fact that molestors don't molest "just once". Like you said, piglet, you just dn't " slip up" and molest your child....As though everyone is entitled to an occasional " slip up", perfectly normal.
How many times does a person need to be molested/sodomized before it destroys that person's soul? Is once not enough? Is it just not a big deal to " some people"? Are they so insensitive as to think that if THEY were sodomized, "just once" it would be no big deal?
32yrs@BBC,
Similar questions and God's answers are found in Habakkuk.
BBC's current situation is pretty close to Zeph 3 as well. Judgement looms.
Do any of you pray with love in your heart for Brother Steve? When I say, "for" I mean for him to become a very strong, faithful servant for Jesus Christ who can be even more effective than our beloved Dr. Rogers. No one enjoys the situation, but I only hear one side actually praying for their enemies and this happens to be those who have remained with Bellevue. I have observed a few prayers requesting God to change the leadership of Bellevue to conform to what the petitioner thinks that God desires but do you ever pray, "God if this is what you desire for Bellevue then I will submit and take part in Your mission" Many of you have been in Church as long as I have, you have heard the Word from Dr. Rogers over and over again that God is in charge and life is not about us, it is about Him and His plan. I ask you in the name of Jesus to please do what the Scripture says and season your prayers with true love for Jesus Christ. I know as I write this that this message will not tickle your ears and some will blast away instead of going to your knees in repentance. You can run to other churches and think you have found peace but you haven't or else you would not still be blasting away at other people you are suppose to be loving and encouraging to move one step closer to oneness with Christ. I do pray for each of you even though I do not agree with you and welcome any of you into fellowship with me. True fellowship where all people are treated as sinners saved by grace untited by Christ for the purpose of encouraging one another as we work under the mission which began with Jesus. Christ is the head, the Pastor is the oppointed leader, and we are the elected ones to accomplish the work. Many people are trying to change the predestined order of headship (which cannot be done) only God is in control of who leads and anyone that you or I pick will not work out. Think!
No one enjoys the situation, but I only hear one side actually praying for their enemies and this happens to be those who have remained with Bellevue.
Enemies?
I was almost with you on your post, til I got to this line. The fact that you view those who don't agree with you in support of your pastor as your "enemies" speaks volumes.
Yes, we pray. We pray that Jesus is glorified. We pray that SG comes before the Lord in true repentance. We pray this for the whole church.
Seekinghiswill should be seekingHiswill...
You said "think." If you are really seeking--add reading Mt. 18 to your prayers. FYI many on here have been praying for him for months.
You wrote:
"True fellowship where all people are treated as sinners saved by grace untited [sic] by Christ for the purpose of encouraging one another as we work under the mission which began with Jesus."
Do you mean no accountability? Do you mean uniting without truth?
You wrote:
"the Pastor is the oppointed [sic] leader"
The pastor should be called by God and should follow the Word of God. Even those in the OT who claimed the office of prophet were weighed by the congregation (Deut. 18:20-22).
He should tend the flock instead of trying to clear house.
When leaders run from the truth they will find that few will want to hear them proclaim that they know the Truth.
Comunications committees, buffers between pastor and people, intimidation of those who far outnumber the required two or three witnesses required to bring an accusation against a pastor...
But the leadership controls whether any forum can occur to deal with the problems.
Pastors are not kings. Pastors are not high priests. The church is a priesthood of believers.
It is not the case that God has to send a Nathan to point at the pastor and say, "You are the man."
The scripture allows acusations to be brought by two or three witnesses. The scripture gives the forum for these to be brought (Mt. 18)-- before the church body.
Many have called for this to take place for months while Bellevue has continued to decline.
The plan so far has been to end the only session where the body of believers met so that the leadership could hear from the membership.
It appears that God is sending out His light and His truth to other congregations.
Without truth you will eventually have a church building without the church.
Without truth you will be left with a corporation playing a religious game.
Seekinghiswill...
Jesus once said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."
You say you are praying with love in your heart for brother Steve. That's good... That's important... but love for Jesus is more important. Real love... not warm fuzzies that get disturbed by someone suggesting accountability to the Word of God.
Read the event timeline at Integritydoescount.com
Real prayer for Bro. Steve would include that he would allow Mt. 18 to be followed.
That prayer shows real love for Bro. Steve, for Christ's church (to be cleased), and for the Lord Jesus.
jmo
Many people are trying to change the predestined order of headship (which cannot be done) only God is in control of who leads and anyone that you or I pick will not work out.
Furthermore, if you want a pastor who covers his sin, more power to ya. I would prefer to submit to the authority of an under-shepherd who actually seems to be submitted to the authority of the Good Shepherd.
Think!
Same to ya.
Lovecakes: This is from TNLizzie to you:
You certainly don't look like I thought you would!
Your 11:24 AM, May 08, 2007 post on the New BBC Open Forum was profound.
Thank you for your participation; Your perspective has helped me see many things more clearly.
I appreciate you!
<><
Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-92)
"Controversy is never a very happy element for the child of God: he would far rather be in communion with his Lord than be engaged in defending the faith, or in attacking error. But the soldier of Christ knows no choice in his Master's commands. He may feel it to be better for him to lie upon the bed of rest than to stand covered with the sweat and dust of battle; but, as a soldier, he has learned to obey, and the rule of his obedience is not his personal comfort, but his Lord's absolute command. The servant of God must endeavour to maintain all the truth, which his Master has revealed to him, because, as a Christian soldier, this is part of his duty. But while he does so, he accords to others the liberty which he himself enjoys."—C. H. S., in address at the Tabernacle, 1861.
25+ wrote:
"Pastors are not kings."
This one thinks he is. And he's got a "Little Queen" to boot. (See the display case across from the elevators on the west side of the BBC auditorium for more information.)
25+ and nathanb
Amen!!!
Brother Cakes,
If I may ask, what happened to your face?
< superficial suggestion> Maybe you should put the photoshop glasses back on. < /superficial suggestion >
Seekinghiswill published a post which almost made me fall out of my chair.
I don't know even where to start! It is obvious to me that you have followed Steve with a blind eye and a closed mind. His "mistakes of the mind and not of the heart" (which is a new way of covering up and whitewashing sin) should have shown everyone that this is not really a man of God. What makes you think those that stayed are the holy prayer warriors doing God's work and will??? WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY!!! Read that line again. And again. You are correct in saying that it isn't about us, it is about the Lord Jesus. This is why we are not agreement with you and why we are making a stand. It hasn't been about Jesus since Steve and the gang took control. It is about power hungry, ego feeding men who think we are to worship them. Do you think I would insult God by asking Him if this is desire for Bellevue & then willingly submit to it? This, I believe, God's permissive will in order to cleanse the den of thiefs that have snuck in, including some deacons which hid their agenda until Dr. Rogers was gone. We know they didn't go along with him on a lot of things. You have heard Dr. Rogers preach but you didn't really listen. How can you be so deceived???
You say we should go to our knees in repentence, which by the way is very arrogant, but what can I expect since I know who's teaching you sit under now. I would say that do you require the same "getting on your knees in repentence" of your leadership? How about you? Do you repent for allowing your pastor to keep a pedofile on staff for 6 months, hiring a business man & ordaining him (has he been called of God to the ministry or called of Steve to protect Steves "ministry", not to mention all the other evil that has been done. You are suggesting we should do something that your leadership won't do.
The last part of your post is so fluffy all I can say is Awww, how sweet. Unbiblical in parts, but sweet. Jesus is the head. Pastor is the SERVANT leader, not the dictator. We are not elected to accomplish the work, we are called, according to HIS purpose, to serve at HIS disposal and will. Your language is that of a calvinist which if you had listened to Dr. Rogers, he was not.
No one, that I know including myself wants to change God's "predestined" order of things. We just want a man of God who is humble, a servant, not hungry for money or has an ego the size of Bellevue, loves people, not a bully, and is honest in dealing with church money/credit. Steve is not that man.
I would have loved to get behind Steve and support him...I still would sort of...but the Word of God is clear and I believe Steve has disquaified Himself from Pastor of this church. You said "that God is in control of who leads and anyone that you or I pick will not work out. Think" Does anyone else see something self-condeming about that statment?
You and your deacons have chosen this man, not God. Steve isn't working out. God chose the first Pastors through Dr. Rogers, as seen by God's blessings. Man chose Steve (and the Jamie Parker show) and you see the results.
Many have "saturated the place with their absence".
I suggest to you...THINK...better yet, Repent.
...youthmomma said...
They would love us and support us. Now that's what I needed to hear. The Lord is blessing this church. I am thankful for the GBC members that fought for their church!...
Youthmamma . . . it's all perspective. We were very active at GBC, when the split occurred and when we went quietly away only a single friend called and asked us what was up. Sounds a lot like what some of you experienced at BBC.
I tell you this not to point a finger at GBC but to point out that when you're not "in" with the majority at any church they're pretty much willing to let you walk away.
Interestingly we chose not to leave because Sam had left, or because of the the way the vote went. We left months later, based solely on what we felt God was leading us to do.
We never vehemently argued our thoughts and opinions, never picked a "side," we just did the best we could in respect to following what we believed God would have us do. We got our answer one day in SS, a simple statement, made out of context from our guest leader that day, and never went back.
As I'm sure most of you are, I'm involved with several social/christain groups and I assure you that if I just stopped coming and communicating with no warning they would (a) contact me, and (b) try to find a way to get me active again.
The local church often has the unique practice of shooting their wounded.
Although I have'nt spoken to anyone at GBC for several months now, I still love and consider ALL those believers as my Christian brothers and sisters. And, I wish nothing but the best to them and GBC.
To sum it up . . . I can say that I felt the same about GBC and the people that stayed as many of you all do about BBC. I also have to say that while I'm not yet as comfortable in my new church God is using this time to stretch my faith and understanding. Until "the church" begins to seek God's will instead of the members/staff will this stuff will continue to happen at any church.
preacherdude777 said:
"We are not elected to accomplish the work, we are called, according to HIS purpose, to serve at HIS disposal and will. Your language is that of a calvinist which if you had listened to Dr. Rogers, he was not."
I don't mean to open a can of worms, but it seems a disproportionate number of those standing for truth and opposing the unrepentant sin of the leadership count themselves "Calvinists", for lack of a better term.
all2Jesus said:
I don't mean to open a can of worms, but it seems a disproportionate number of those standing for truth and opposing the unrepentant sin of the leadership count themselves "Calvinists", for lack of a better term.
All2Jesus,
It is OK for the people to be calvinist if they wish. That wasn't my point. My point was the way seekhiswill (steves will??) was stating their misguided point which struck a cord in my spirit. Intended or not, is seemed their point was God ordained Steve and the gang to lead us & we are sinning by not following along blindly singing his (Steves) praises. They want unity over truth. God wants Truth, His Truth, over unity...calvinist or not.
Seeking His Will,
Could you do me a favor, please?
I really mean this.
Could you help the rest of us to understand where you file away Steve's harboring of a pedaphile?
SOTL and Gmommy,
I wonder how many times these folks such as seekhiswill and the person gmommy spoke to would let PW babysit their kids? I mean seriously - if it only happened once, how bad of a guy could PW be? Along that logical thinking, Jeffery Dahmer was hungry and too lazy to venture to McDonalds, right?
karen
I am dumbfounded at the reasoning skills (or lack thereof) of the people who are so eagerly following a man who espouses such an unholy agenda. What kind of mentality does it take to classify a fellow brother or sister in Christ as the "enemy" all the while supporting a man promoting worhip at the altar of greed, self, and blatant sin? Someone tell me where these dear brethren were when Dr Rogers preached against following a man? Do they not have enough wisdom and discernment to at least compare the actions and attitudes of the administration against the Word of God? IF they are not able to get it from the Word, can they not pray for wisdom?
Someone please explain this to me?
This is sick, spiritually and mentally sick.
Karen wrote:
"I wonder how many times these folks such as seekhiswill and the person gmommy spoke to would let PW babysit their kids? I mean seriously - if it only happened once, how bad of a guy could PW be? Along that logical thinking, Jeffery Dahmer was hungry and too lazy to venture to McDonalds, right?"
Only you'd think of that Karen, but you're right! How many times would it have had to happen for some of these people to say, "Now, that's one time too many"? By the way, "over a period of 12 to 18 months" is more than once!
What if the crime (and it was a crime) had been murder -- but just one murder 17 years ago? I imagine survivors of this kind of abuse would tell you that a child molester is guilty of "murdering" a part of the spirit of a child.
NASS,
Only me, huh? :) I'll take that as a compliment.
What I find funny (sad!) is that those of us who aren't in lockstep, pledging eternal devotion to Steve Gaines are viewed as "weak Christians", "the ones who need to pray more", "the enemy". When did that happen? Why is it that just because I have a differing opinion than the majority of members (who, don't care, don't know, or have another agenda) I'm villified as their enemy? I thought we are "one in the bonds of love" and a "family of friends". When did Bellevue become a divided camp? I'll tell you when:
Sept. 11, 2005
That's when! And what's the common denominator? STEVE GAINES! I haven't changed - have you changed? So why am I your enemy if you like Steve Gaines and I don't? Are we no longer friends/family because of this one guy? If you don't like me because I don't like him, we might as well return to 3rd grade folks. Seriously!
If you think Steve Gaines is God's annointed, God must not like Bellevue very much.
karen
Preacher777
Let it be made perfectly clear that I am not a Calvinist I firmly believe in the free will of man and I also believe that ALL can come to Christ and become one of the elect. I am so sorry that you thought my message was one of arrogance; that was not my thoughts. I have read the message again that I wrote and you assumed a lot of things that simply were not there. This has been a problem with most everyone; everyone assumes they have the answer and that if they were in the pulpit they would do everything perfect, they would never make a mistake, they would be loved by everyone. I have some news for you! Men and women alike are all sinners some are saved and some are not. Saved does not mean perfect in nature and we all have a sin nature and the finger points right back into our own face when we point out the sins of others. I see your sins and you say that you see my sins and we are both right; why can't you see the same thing when you point at Brother Steve. Point is: You are quick to look at him with a manifying glass and constantly point your finger at how evil he is, point is: Steve Gaines is not doing this to you or any of your mutual friends. Point: I simply suggest that WE should repent and follow the example of the leader who God has placed in front of us. He knows that he is a sinner and he has admitted that he has made some errors of judgement and he has chosen to NOT point fingers but instead accept all the blame. What more can any of us expect from a leader in this day and time? I am proud of the humility he has maintained under the pressures he has had to face. I have petitioned you and all of us to seek God's Will for Bellevue and stop trying to change God's will to suit our own selfish desires (to sit in luxury and worship the way (we) want to). We are on a mission to reach the lost people around us and if it means that we have to come out of our black ties, fancy suits, and mink coats; so-be-it. People sit and worry about PDL and I am not saying that PDL is the way we should go; I don't know! it may be a mistake but the only people who do not make mistakes are the ones who never do anything. If the motive behind the movement is to preach and share the gospel in order for people to be saved then that person or group can rest assure that God looks upon the heart and judges the motive. Regardless of what any of you say Brother Steve preaches the gospel and yes we should support and encourage him to continue instead of trying discourage him. I wanted to encourage those of you who read this blog site to place your focus on Jesus and what Jesus can do instead of what you think ought to be done. I am sorry if I offended some of you and I will not dialogue any further.
Karen,
Thanks for your post. I agree that the common denominator for all the troubles has been Steve Gaines. He has intentionally brought down Bellevue Baptist Church in seeking his own agenda, not the Lord's agenda, because the Lord's agenda is to exhort Christ, spread the Gospel, serve God and to love our neighbor as Christ loved us. Steve Gaines has promoted "taking out the trash", pursuing money, promoting a worldy agenda (PDC/CGM) and seeking his own will. Steve Gaines has wrought disunity, devisiveness, discord, contention, dishonesty, disharmony and wickedness amongst the fellowship of Bellevue. What kind of "annointed" person does that? His actions are of the devil and nothing else. Those who do not see it are blind, blind, blind. THEY are the ones that are in the most need of prayer, for there is none so blind than those who WILL NOT see. Do they WANT to serve a man instead of our Lord??
What really gets me is the fact that Steve Gaines did the exact same way at his previous churches and no one at BBC had a clue. Only those who the Lord had revealed a spiritual discomfort about his selection had any inkling of his lack of a moral compass, but with the approval of the search committee and the ill informed congregation, who would have thought that one ungodly man could destroy what it took the Lord and a series of Godly pastors over a hundred years to build.
This is heartbreaking.
SG being annointed by God is like him sitting out side of BBC, at a table and looking up, and there's BBC. God had called him to BBC. Please give me a break.
How do you spot adversaries and defend against those who create chaos among God’s people? John MacArthur’s explosive new series unmasks the most dangerous terrorists of all: enemies of God’s truth who are embedded in the church. This series, Spiritual Terrorism, shows you how to stay vigilant in the battle for truth.
LISTEN
seekinghiswill said...
"Point: I simply suggest that WE should repent and follow the example of the leader who God has placed in front of us. He knows that"
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! THAT IS THE PROBLEM - WE ARE TO FOLLOW CHRIST'S EXAMPLE!!!!!
seeking his will:
YADA YADA YADA
Please answer the question I put to you earlier today.
Thanks.
seekinghiswill wrote: Christ is the head, the Pastor is the oppointed leader, and we are the elected ones to accomplish the work. Many people are trying to change the predestined order of headship (which cannot be done) only God is in control of who leads and anyone that you or I pick will not work out. Think!"
The pastor is the 'appointed leader'? Are you implying that the Holy Spirit appoints all pastors? Would you say that about Ted Haggard? Or how about Jim Jones? Benny Hinn? I could go on and on but were all these appointed?
How do you reconcile what you wrote in your post about all the teachings in NT on false teachers? Wolves, mockers? How do you reconcile it with Pauls teaching taht we are to expose evil? And that we are to have NOTHING to do with evil deeds of darkness...(You do know that Paul was writing about 'professing Christians' there...don't you?)
I agree with you that people should be praying for the pastor but to think that he can stay in his position and everyone just pray that he start acting like he owns a Bible is well...kind of silly.
Follow Christ...not men. And don't forget...we are a Holy Priesthood. We no longer need a priest to get to Jesus.
...everyone assumes they have the answer and that if they were in the pulpit they would do everything perfect, they would never make a mistake, they would be loved by everyone.
Who thinks this? Name one person. This is a ludicrous statement, and furthermore, it's a strawman.
I have some news for you! Men and women alike are all sinners some are saved and some are not.
This is news to us?
Saved does not mean perfect in nature and we all have a sin nature and the finger points right back into our own face when we point out the sins of others.
Has anyone on this blog claimed to be without sin? Anyone?
Point is: You are quick to look at him with a manifying glass and constantly point your finger at how evil he is, point is: Steve Gaines is not doing this to you or any of your mutual friends.
No magnifying glass necessary, unfortunately.
SG is accountable to the sovereign God, who takes sin very seriously. Forgiveness is available, thanks to the Lord Jesus, but not without repetance.
Point: I simply suggest that WE should repent and follow the example of the leader who God has placed in front of us.
I'm sure we could all use a little repentance, but God forbid that we should follow in SG's example. No thanks.
He knows that he is a sinner and he has admitted that he has made some errors of judgement and he has chosen to NOT point fingers but instead accept all the blame.
Hello. I must have missed this.
What more can any of us expect from a leader in this day and time?
Oh dear... you are only making excuses for him. You are not helping your case here.
I am proud of the humility he has maintained under the pressures he has had to face.
You are proud of the humility?
I wanted to encourage those of you who read this blog site to place your focus on Jesus and what Jesus can do instead of what you think ought to be done.
What Jesus are you talking about here? The one who rebuked the religious leaders, who overturned the tables in the temple area, who gave us such clear instructions about how to deal with conflict in the church, who is holy and just and jealous?
I am sorry if I offended some of you...
I'm not offended by you, but I am deeply concerned by your words.
and I will not dialogue any further.
Suit yourself.
"No one enjoys the situation, but I only hear one side actually praying for their enemies and this happens to be those who have remained with Bellevue."
Enemies?
Paul wrote, "Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?"
Galations 4
seekinghiswill:
What's your favorite flavor?
Paul wrote, "Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?"
Galations 4
Amen Lin. And Paul.
lin,socwork,sotl,
Thanks for your posts - I am about to blow a gasket over this unscriptural mentality. It is no wonder the church is in trouble.
I need to take a walk and commune with my Savior to clear my head over this one! Unbelieveable!
Hey NASS,
Read seekhiswill's last post - does the fur coat reference ring a bell with you??? Josh, does it sound familiar??
karen
seekhiswill,
What microscope did we hold over Steve when he and the chairman of the deacons, and the Associate Pastor and the husband of one on the Search Committee scaled the 41" fence? He admitted that! What microscopic truth are we supposedly seeking?
I guess we're just supposed to trust Steve Gaines blindly now when he's proven over and over and over he's beyond being trusted?
How many times would you allow PW to babysit your kids or grandkids after you realize he repeatedly raped them?
What's the magic number of "mistakes, Mulligans and do-overs" that Steve gets before your blind trust in him is rattled? Some of us dicerned a problem earlier than a lot of people. So, how many "oopsie poopsies" will it take for you? Come back and talk to us when it reaches that number.
karen
socwork said...
Point is: You are quick to look at him with a manifying glass and constantly point your finger at how evil he is, point is: Steve Gaines is not doing this to you or any of your mutual friends.
No magnifying glass necessary, unfortunately.
I agree - Steve Gaines sure ain't doing some of this stuff in secret so we don't need a magnifying glass - we can all see it plain as day.
And by the way, seekhiswill, the definition of Hezbollah is thus and like so (sorry!):
Hezbollah[1] (Arabic: حزب الله ḥizbu-llāh,[2] literally "party of God") is a Shi'a Islamic political and paramilitary organization based in Lebanon. Hezbollah engages in terrorist activities against the State of Israel most notably during the summer of '06 when it instigated a regional crisis with Israel by capturing 2 soldiers who were not engaged in any offensive duties. It follows a distinct version of Islamist Shi'a ideology , which is widely recognized by the Muslim community as well as by the rest of the world as violent, developed by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, leader of the Islamic Revolution in Iran.
Steve Gaines said Mark Sharpe was Hezbollah, so if that's not pointing a finger and calling Mark evil, I'd love to see your definition.
bin wondering, that series is excellent...thanks for the link!
seekinghiswill wrote: Point: I simply suggest that WE should repent and follow the example of the leader who God has placed in front of us."
Friend, we are NEVER to follow the 'example' of men. Our only comparison is Christ. Period. We are to be Bereans and check all teaching. (Gaines proof texts scripture quite a bit)
"He knows that he is a sinner and he has admitted that he has made some errors of judgement and he has chosen to NOT point fingers but instead accept all the blame."
If he really understood his sin as an elder he would resign from ministry all together. According to scripture he must. He is not above reproach and yes, scripture calls for elders to be above reproach. You may want to check out Titus and Timothy for qualifications of an elder.
" What more can any of us expect from a leader in this day and time?"
This is just about the saddest thing you have written. It speaks volumes about where we are as the Body of Christ. Lowering the bar on sin, qualifications of elders, etc. yes, we are all sinners but Gaines has shown he either does not know scripture or willfully ignores it. Which is it?
"I am proud of the humility he has maintained under the pressures he has had to face."
Like the Lunch Box display? The huge salary? The not preaching on Wed? The book signings? Being a paid speaker on the circuit? Treating the victim with disdain? Ending the business meeting? I could go on and on but please do not use the term HUMILITY (The correct term is humble) and Gaines in the same sentence.
" I have petitioned you and all of us to seek God's Will for Bellevue and stop trying to change God's will to suit our own selfish desires (to sit in luxury and worship the way (we) want to)."
God's will is NEVER to ignore scripture. Start there.
"We are on a mission to reach the lost people around us..."
Reach them for what? More tithes? It can't be for the truth of scripture. Your pastor has ignored that. That has been proven of no importance to your pastor.
"People sit and worry about PDL and I am not saying that PDL is the way we should go; I don't know! it may be a mistake but the only people who do not make mistakes are the ones who never do anything."
Friend, YOU MUST GET INTO SCRIPTURE. Do you realize how pitiful and ignorant of scripture this sounds?
" If the motive behind the movement is to preach and share the gospel in order for people to be saved then that person or group can rest assure that God looks upon the heart and judges the motive."
NO NO NO!!! Read John. Jesus KNOWS our hearts. He knows the evil in man. Our hearts are decietful. WE are to follow the commands and precepts of scripture. We are to be in continual repentance. There is NO way around that. We are to be growing in holiness. Being sanctified. BTW: We do not win anyone to Christ. We simply share the FULL gospel and the Holy Spirit convicts and saves. What you are discussing above is very man centered.
" Regardless of what any of you say Brother Steve preaches the gospel and yes we should support and encourage him to continue instead of trying discourage him."
Friend, I am not sure YOU know enough of scripture to make that judgment. From my listening to him, there have been some glaring and scary errors that are very self serving in his preaching. He proof texts terribly. (But so do many preachers) However, his ACTIONS are not of Christ. We are to warn others.
" I wanted to encourage those of you who read this blog site to place your focus on Jesus and what Jesus can do instead of what you think ought to be done."
I agree. And it is all right there in scripture. Read it...PLEASE for your own sake! Don't just hear a sermon and believe it! Read each verse in context and make sure the teaching is in line with what is taught in that particular book.
Lin...
AMEN!
Ima
Lin,
Steve Gaines told PW's son that Titus and Timothy's requirements for ministers are just "guidelines". Scary, huh??
karen
seekinghiswill,
Please understand that I am NOT angry with you at all. I am worried about you! I am no theologian but I know enough scripture to see that you have things very backward. You have fallen into the trap of following men. So many are in that trap and unfortunatly today, we are surrounded by false teachers. We have to know the real thing in order not to be deceieved.
The ONE blessing that has come out of BBC is that Gaines has so many glaring sins because of willfully ignoring scripture that it became obvious to anyone with basic understanding of scripture that he was a false teacher.
If we LOVE we warn. If we LOVE we tell the truth.
seekinghiswill, if you are interested in hearing some serious biblical expository teaching that you can check as a Berean, please e-mail me.
Mom4, Me too! I grieve over this. Sometimes too much.
As my dear mother told me before she passed away, "Don't ever forget that the American church has become a mission field."
"Steve Gaines told PW's son that Titus and Timothy's requirements for ministers are just "guidelines".
Karen, God certainly was serious about the purity of His Bride as He was building the church. Just ask Annanias and Sapphira!
Wonder if Gaines thinks the Beatitudes are 'guidelines'?
Ok, going for a walk...and to pray for ALL of you. Grace and Peace. His Mercies are NEW every morning.
I am sure some of the Israelites made the exact statements about Joshua that you are making about Brother Steve. Joshua said, "As for me and my house we will serve the Lord" I am not ignorant of the Scriptures and what I read does not condone the behavior or actions that any of you have taken. "Am I your enemy because I tell you the truth"
Does the sound of my voice ring a bell? I am sure you will go to your leader to find out - oh, I forgot you don't follow leaders you look to Jesus for all of you information!
I've been out of town for the last five days and missed SG's Sunday sermons.
Did he speak for God and say that "God is Love" and everyone that would respond to his altar call would be obligated by God to save them?
He sure loves to put God in a box!
seekinghiswill - don't run away, talk. We don't have to agree but we can talk.
I am not assuming I have all the answers. I don't have but I know who does...God...in His Word. Steve has violated God's requirement for ministers thereby is now unfit to lead. Everyone makes mistakes. Not everyone commits crimes, transpassing, credit card misuse, in return didn't pay taxes on personal purchases of church credit cards-tax evasion, harbor a sex offender-not reporting that was a crime. Breaking God's laws : lying, bulling, money hungry, unloving, worker not worthy of his hire..no preaching on Wednesdays..unless it is somewhere else..for $$$. Giving a huge check to a church that is teaching against God's laws, homosexuals, women pastor,abortion. The list goes on.
Sins can be forgiven but the consequences of those sins must be delt with.
Steve isn't pointing fingers because he can't. He is guilty..by his own admission. Yes, we are quick to point the finger...scripture instructs us to test the spirits to see if they are true.
You say that your point was for us to repent & follow the example that God has place in front of us...Well for one, I don't believe God put him there. Two, if I followed his example I would be a criminal & would sin against God as well.
I guess the upside of following his example is that I would make a whole lot more money with a whole lot less work..sweet!
You say that he accepted blame, maybe but has he repented? He did have a little winey moment a while back but has since recovered and preached selfserving sermons against those that don't agree with him. Nope, I see now repentence.
You say " What more can any of us expect from a leader in this day and time" WHAT?????????
YOU CAN AND SHOULD EXPECT/DEMAND THAT PASTOR BE A MAN OF GOD, HUMBLE, A SERVANT, A DOER OF THE WORD, A WORKMAN WORTHY OF HIS HIRE, NOT A MONEY HUNGRY, EGOMANIAC. THAT HE FOLLOWS THE REQUIREMENTS OF SCRIPTURE, THAT HE BE MATURE IN THE FAITH, A GROWING CHRISTIAN, ECT.
You must have low expectations. God hasn't lowered His requirements for his servants just because of the day we are in. How unbelievable that statement was. That explains alot of what kind of people Steve & the Jamie Parker show attracts.
We are not trying to change God's will to suit our own. Don't know where you came up with that one.
I am not worried about luxury at BBC. ( you should have seen the church I was interim in). You are SO off the mark here. It isn't about keep the staus quo. It is about God's Word, God's man and how Steve is far from both.
You say that the only people who don't make mistakes are the people who don't do anything? The mistake he has made..it would have been far better, and scriptural, to have done nothing. These were not little mistakes but major sin.
You say you don't know about PDL...well you better do some research because you are heading that way. You will be held accountable & ignorance won't be an excuse. You better know the motive behind the movement.
God looks apon the heart alright. He will deal with this, trust me.
You say "regardless of what you say, Steve preaches the Gospel and yes we should support and encourage him... Well, I do encourge Steve to preach the Gospel...instead of using the pulpit to brow beat those who disagree. God can reach the lost inspite of Steve. I also will encourage Steve...to repent & resign. There is a way that seems right unto man, but the end shall lead to destruction.
Our focus is JESUS that is why we must take a stand. I don't like most of the changes but I could live with them. It is about the character,or the lack of it, and the out in the open sin that has me upset.
I would ask you to ask God to show you if by some wild chance, that you may be wrong. Look at the evidence, look at the scripture, look to Jesus...I pray you will see the truth.
SeekingHisWill said...
Point: I simply suggest that WE should repent and follow the example of the leader who God has placed in front of us.
REPLY:
If you think the Dr. Gaines is setting an example that should be followed, then you are in SERIOUS TROUBLE!!!!!!!!! BTW, like the others have stated, I strongly suggest following Jesus' example and not some mortal and sinful man!!!!!!
Karen wrote:
"Read seekhiswill's last post - does the fur coat reference ring a bell with you???"
Yep. Very shrewd of you to notice that. Tappity, tappity!
SeekingHisWill,
Is that you Miss Billie???????
*tapp, tapp, tapp*
Is this thing on?
This Rick Warren purpose driven stuff is so very old. Bellevue is light years away from that and is not even going that direction. It is missing ALL the nessesary things. It is not even close
Where is the outrage over the MANY at the business meeting against Brother Steve that voted that were not members?
Posted: Do any of you pray with love in your heart for Brother Steve? When I say, "for" I mean for him to become a very strong, faithful servant for Jesus Christ who can be even more effective than our beloved Dr. Rogers. No one enjoys the situation, but I only hear one side actually praying for their enemies and this happens to be those who have remained with Bellevue. I have observed a few prayers requesting God to change the leadership of Bellevue to conform to what the petitioner thinks that God desires but do you ever pray, "God if this is what you desire for Bellevue then I will submit and take part in Your mission" Many of you have been in Church as long as I have, you have heard the Word from Dr. Rogers over and over again that God is in charge and life is not about us, it is about Him and His plan. I ask you in the name of Jesus to please do what the Scripture says and season your prayers with true love for Jesus Christ. I know as I write this that this message will not tickle your ears and some will blast away instead of going to your knees in repentance. You can run to other churches and think you have found peace but you haven't or else you would not still be blasting away at other people you are suppose to be loving and encouraging to move one step closer to oneness with Christ. I do pray for each of you even though I do not agree with you and welcome any of you into fellowship with me. True fellowship where all people are treated as sinners saved by grace untited by Christ for the purpose of encouraging one another as we work under the mission which began with Jesus. Christ is the head, the Pastor is the oppointed leader, and we are the elected ones to accomplish the work. Many people are trying to change the predestined order of headship (which cannot be done) only God is in control of who leads and anyone that you or I pick will not work out. Think!
Reply: Well Said!
socworth said: Yes, we pray. We pray that Jesus is glorified. We pray that SG comes before the Lord in true repentance. We pray this for the whole church.
Reply: Who is we?? How do you know? That is all you pray for Brother Steve?
Who is we?? How do you know? That is all you pray for Brother Steve?
Myself and all of my wonderful personalities, of course.
"We" is me and others. It infers a plurality of persons. The others will have to speak for themselves beyond that.
And, no, that's not all I pray for him. What do you pray?
Karen said: That's when! And what's the common denominator? STEVE GAINES! I haven't changed - have you changed? So why am I your enemy if you like Steve Gaines and I don't? Are we no longer friends/family because of this one guy? If you don't like me because I don't like him, we might as well return to 3rd grade folks. Seriously!
Reply: This blog is full of adults that act like they are in 3rd grade, funny you say that.
If you think Steve Gaines is God's annointed, God must not like Bellevue very much.
Reply: Where do you get this stuff? How is that Biblical? You seem to like to just make up junk.
Time to get out my TROLLing motor.
concerned posted: SG being annointed by God is like him sitting out side of BBC, at a table and looking up, and there's BBC. God had called him to BBC. Please give me a break.
Reply: Excuse me?? You are saying that did not happen?
Preacher777 said
Your language is that of a calvinist which if you had listened to Dr. Rogers, he was not."
shw replied to Preacher777
"Let it be made perfectly clear that I am not a Calvinist I firmly believe in the free will of man and I also believe that ALL can come to Christ and become one of the elect. I am so sorry that you thought my message was one of arrogance; that was not my thoughts."
all2Jesus said:
I don't mean to open a can of worms, but it seems a disproportionate number of those standing for truth and opposing the unrepentant sin of the leadership count themselves "Calvinists", for lack of a better term.
P777 replied to All2Jesus,
"It is OK for the people to be calvinist if they wish."
SHW is a diehard SG supporter:
"I firmly believe in the free will of man and I also believe that ALL can come to Christ and become one of the elect."
WHS says:
I am a calvinist and am against the gospel that SGs preaches!
Is there a line drawn in the sand here?
Mom4 said: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! THAT IS THE PROBLEM - WE ARE TO FOLLOW CHRIST'S EXAMPLE!!!!!
Reply: Like you and others on here??
Mom4 said: lin,socwork,sotl,
Thanks for your posts - I am about to blow a gasket over this unscriptural mentality. It is no wonder the church is in trouble.
I need to take a walk and commune with my Savior to clear my head over this one! Unbelieveable!
Reply: Your words and actions are 2 very very different things. I pray you are not in a leadership position of any kind.
watchinghisstory said: I've been out of town for the last five days and missed SG's Sunday sermons.
Did he speak for God and say that "God is Love" and everyone that would respond to his altar call would be obligated by God to save them?
He sure loves to put God in a box!
Reply: I guess you got that is called for and glorifies Christ?? You and so many on here are so full of hate and so two faced.
Karen posted: Steve Gaines said Mark Sharpe was Hezbollah, so if that's not pointing a finger and calling Mark evil, I'd love to see your definition.
Reply: No, he did say that. Wording is everything. And you and others wonder how things get spun and twisted??
Reply: I guess you got that is called for and glorifies Christ?? You and so many on here are so full of hate and so two faced.
Where can I get a translation of this sentence?
He knows that he is a sinner and he has admitted that he has made some errors of judgement and he has chosen to NOT point fingers but instead accept all the blame.
REPLY to SeekingHiswill: There is a difference in apologizing when your back is to the wall, and humbling repenting and asking forgiveness with no excuses. "God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble"(James 4:6) - and people tend to respond in the same way. A leader who does not humble himself when he fails will find the hearts of those under him will lose respect and turn away.
Seven Signs of True Repentance
1. Accepts FULL responsibility
2. Accepts accountability
3. Does not cont. in the hurtful
behavior
4. Does not have a defensive
attitude
5. Does not have a joking attitude
6. Does not resent the need to
demonstrate sincerity
7. Makes restitution
You know exactly what I meant. I would try and play it off also, if I spewed hate like you did.
witq
What we have here is a failure to communicate!
pyofahtcwitq? has no purpose posting on this blog, but to be a TROLL. Don't feed the TROLL!!!!!!!!
WITQ is storing up for the day of wrath, ignore him, he holds no sway with believers.
pyofahtcwitq?
Charlie fox, watch your language mister! ;)
***taking a deep cleansing breath***
Question for the blog-at-large:
Was Nathan in sin when he went to David, pointed him out so to speak, and said "You are the man!?"
(See 2 Samuel 12 if you want to read the story)
Socwork,
Actually, God sent Nathan to confront David over his sin. Unlike Steve Gaines, David repented.
Is it just me or does "witq" sound a lot like the former "hisservant" and "4545"?
I believe someone asked "witq" a question several times, and he failed to respond. So if you're still hanging out, witq, the question was, "Have you ever posted on this blog under a different screen name?" It's a very simple question. Just as simple as the one I asked several times, namely, are you a deacon? Mind you, I don't care which deacon you are, but I did ask if you are one.
posted: You and your deacons have chosen this man, not God.
Reply: That is a lie from the pit of hell.
Steve isn't working out. God chose the first Pastors through Dr. Rogers, as seen by God's blessings.
Reply: New to Bellevue? Dr. Rogers and other pastors had major problems.
Man chose Steve (and the Jamie Parker show) and you see the results.
Reply: Jamie Parker show? Just more two faced stuff. Everyone loved him before and cried when he left. He returns and people hate him and tuen their back on him.
witq,
Would you mind answering the questions?
If you're not going to answer, please leave. You're not contributing anything to the discussion. And if you're who I think you are, you've already been banned.
NBBCOF
witq? has no purpose posting on this blog, but to be a TROLL. Don't feed the TROLL!!!!!!!!
Better, socwork???????
Steve Gaines meets with Paul
4:49 Karen Said...
Steve Gaines told PW's son that Titus and Timothy's requirements for ministers are just "guidelines". Scary, huh??
The IDC Web Site also says Gaines
states that “if we really held to that standard, we wouldn’t have any ministers.”
Even scarier.
witq is so boring. and predictable.
IF he takes himself seriously,
the men in the white coats need to come to his house.
NASS,
You have mail.
Amy,
Also scary....
when PW left SG's office after confessing to him he sexually molested his own child,
PW said to a minister no longer at BBC....
"I've never felt more affirmed in my life"
very telling.
Socwork,
Actually, God sent Nathan to confront David over his sin. Unlike Steve Gaines, David repented.
*ding ding ding*
We have a winner! You are absolutely right, mom4.
And charlie fox, that is much better. :)
You people who come here to bash the bloggers kill me. You've got what you've wanted all along. The church is being "cleansed" from all the "weak" Christians. That one would be laughable if weren't so pathetic...keep telling yourselves that. WITQ (Steve Tucker), you sir, are the most pathetic one I've seen yet. You're an emotion-surfer..in case you don't know what that is I'll explain...you and your cohorts ride the wave of gushing, childish sentimentality and anyone who doesn't join you and deals in realities (scriptural truths), is "hate-filled", "spews hate", and are generally just bad, bad people. What you need is a major reality check. I'll pray that the LORD will give you ears to hear and eyes to see, as well as a heart to understand what it is that truly glorifies Christ. In the meantime, go find someplace else to play.
gmommylv wrote:
"witq is so boring. and predictable.
"IF he takes himself seriously,
the men in the white coats need to come to his house."
That's just hate-filled gossip! :-)
"oh, I forgot you don't follow leaders you look to Jesus for all of you information!"
Yes! Friend, Yes!! I submit to godly elders BUT I have the responsibility upon my shoulders to discern truth from error.
socwork said...
And charlie fox, that is much better. :)
REPLY:
Phew, what a relief. Thank you, eva sooooo much!! ;-)
Just wonderin,
Was that REALLY Steve Gaines today, pulling into the Stonebridge Golf Course, driving a red mercedez convertible?
Amy said...
The IDC Web Site also says Gaines
states that “if we really held to that standard, we wouldn’t have any ministers.”
The IDC website also says that the Bellevue singles has a black and white Hollywood party on New Years Eve 2006, and that these parties originated at Saddleback in 2005.
However, the Bellevue College department had a black and white Hollywood party in 1993, and the singles department had one in 2002.
How can we believe anything a website says, when it publishes information that is so easily verified as false?
"How can we believe anything a website says, when it publishes information that is so easily verified as false?"
Sol, you are right! That means that Gaines did NOT harbor a pedophile minister for 6 mos or any of the other things like the fence, etc. Thanks for pointing that out.
It has all been a 'dream'. Amen?
What a relief.
Let me be the first to spew--I like that word, "spew." Like, isn't that what God does to lukewarm Christians?
How much risk is it to side with the pampered and powerful; yes, abject denial is easier and perhaps more comfortable in the short term, but unravels eventually (e.g. the blunders heaped upon blunders, acts of selfishness and self-preservation--starting many years ago with the abuser right down to the song-n-dance business meeting).
I crack up on that whole manifest destiny argument that one must submit to the man "God" has placed in leadership, (extremely egregious) shortcomings and all.
The presumption that God wills men or women to positions of authority or dominance would seemingly leave one spiritually stranded in say, feudal Europe during the 15th century or Iraq circa 2007.
What is truly frustrating about all the company men showing up here to pester is that they really cannot admit the severe breach of trust and bad gamesmanship by Bellevue leaders mostly looking after their own hides.
But for these poor souls forced to traffic the same old cannards, don't hold bitterness even for the night, truthseekers--"people that are hurt, hurt others."
Right?
HE CALLS HIS SHEEP BY NAME
"Let me set this before you as plainly as I can. If a person climbs over or through the fence of a sheep pen instead of going through the gate, you know he's up to no good-a sheep rustler! The shepherd walks right up to the gate. The gatekepper opens the gate to him and the sheep recognize his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he gets them out, he leads them and they follow because they are familiar wit his voice. They won't follow a stranger's voice but will scatter because they aren't used to the sound of it."
Jesus told this simple story, but they had no idea what he was talking about. So he tried again. "I'll be explicit, then. I am the Gate for the sheep. All those others are up to no good-sheep stealers, every one of them. But the sheep didn't listen to them. I am the Gate. Anyone who goes through me will be cared for-will freely go in and out, and find pasture. A thief is only there to steal and kill and destroy. I came so they can have real and eternal life, more and better life than they ever dreamed of.
"I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd puts the sheep before himself, sacrifices himself if necessary. A hired man is not a real shepherd. The sheep mean nothing to him. He sees a wolf come and runs for it, leaving the sheep to be ravaged and scattered by the wolf. He's only in it for the money. The sheep don't matter to him.
This is taken from the first part of John chapter 10-- Does anyone see any similarties to what is happening to BBC? JMHO
Seeking said: "I forgot you don't follow leaders you look to Jesus for all of you information!"
Yes, and?
Let's see...scripture... God's Word?
Well, I see that our old troll under a new name showed up while I was watching ALF reruns.
AOG - he sounds like Steve Tucker to me, too.
Y'all handled him quite well.
I'm not sure why he keeps coming back. I would think he would be blissfully happy that so many troublemakers are leaving. Could be a problem, though, if the more people leave, the more people wake up and then more people leave and then more wake up and on and on.
Maybe he's having to kick in extra bucks to cover that laughable salary Gaines gets.....
I have heard that GBC is down to 3 people to become the new pastor. One of these individuals I hear is Ken Whitten. We should know very soon! I ALWAYS wanted him to come back to Bellevue to be pastor when Dr. Rogers retired! If he does go to GBC I see a lot more people leaving Bellevue to go to GBC. It is truely sad that he is not the current pastor at Bellevue!
everyneedschrist
I am praying daily for the search committee at GBC. We need a man with INTEGRITY who will love the Lord and His hurting flock.
I have to say - that if Ken does come to GBC it would be peotic justice imho.
Piglet I guess selfishly I would hope that Steve would leave and Ken Whitten would return to Bellevue. If Ken Whitten does come to GBC you will have a truely wonderful pastor! He is an incredible man of God. I just know if he comes back to Memphis and goes to GBC I am afraid Belluvue will lose so many members and it would hurt Bellevue greatly. He was always a favorite of many Bellevue members even though he has been gone for quiet a while.
piglet wrote:
"Well, I see that our old troll under a new name showed up while I was watching ALF reruns."
ALF reruns are on? What channel?
Jesus answering them said, "You do
err because you do not know the
Scriptures nor the power of God."
(Mark 12:24)
We are now living in the days of
apostasy. It is of utmost importance we KNOW God's Word or we will not understand the power of God. If God's Word is not deeply embedded in our hearts as well as our heads, there will be no discerning of truth from error.
The church is to evangelize but more importantly it is to edify
(build up) the saints. Fill-in-the-blank messages is "milk."
Deep expository teaching is "meat."
The saints will remain babes in Christ if they are only fed milk.
Too many who are sitting in the pews are babes in Christ - gullible, apathetic, and with very little discernment. They depend on their emotions rather than the facts of God's written Word. They want to just "feel good" rather than be confronted with their sins
or stretched in their faith. Worship services are to glorify a
HOLY God, edify the saints and
encourage the lost to "Come to Jesus." Worship services are NOT
to entertain an audience, appeal to their sensual natures and make everyone happy and feel good. Those who lead in worship are NOT up there to perform - they are there to LEAD the congregants in worship of a HOLY God. The churches today have turned away from their calling of true worship and have conformed to the world culture. Sad! When Aaron's two sons disobeyed God in worship, God called it "strange fire" and His judgment fell on them. That's how serious God is about our worship of Him. (See Leviticus 10:1)
32
Terrrrific message!
God bless you!
32....
Yes and Amen!
Just a little more about wolves...
Rupert Murdoch's pastor, Rick Warren, gets heat for mogul's porn channels
As a non-member of your church, I have been following your crises for months. Daily. Having been in the Church for 35 years and seen many disagreements and splits, for the life of me, I can't figure out the ultimate purpose of your blog. I have not 'taken sides' in your disagreements, I've simply tried to understand.
At one point, this blog might have led to a wellspring of great support which could have impacted the church. It certainly seems clear to me that after much anguish, that won't happen. And so now, the blog is simply an anonymous forum for criticism and gossip. Simply because the existing leadership has not fulfilled your expectations-in fact, have been very, very wrong in your eyes-does not give you the freedom to continue to criticize and gossip, does it?
Lying in wait for the leadership to make its next mistake doesn't seem like the Godly approach to me. Anonymous dialogue of this nature can be very dangerous for the Body of Christ. I don't question your right to an open, fair, congregational meeting. But it should seem clear to everyone, that will not happen. At what point, as an earlier poster suggested, do you wipe the dirt from your feet and move on? You may have been wronged very deeply. You may vehemently disagree with the way the present leadership has handled all of these problems...but is it not obvious that the direction of the leadership is set? Is it not obvious you won't be able to change the course? Is it not obvious that the present ongoing dialogue is hurting your own spiritual life by the continual attack on the Body of Christ? Why not have a healthy meeting among yourselves to grieve the loss of a church and pastor you once knew, loved, and supported and look for God's next chapter for your life? A number of churches have been mentioned that share similar values and convictions of the Bellevue you remember. Why not abandon the war, and all of the energy and time you're spending fighting it, and find a place of God where you can grow and be nurtured and serve others?
I'm not trying to be critical, argumentative, or judgemental. I'm just reflecting on what I've been reading and pondering for months. At what point do you stop?
Respectfully,
A fellow follower of Christ
can't figure out the ultimate purpose of your blog. I have not 'taken sides' in your disagreements, I've simply tried to understand.
You haven't taken sides on whether or not it is wrong for a pastor to break the law by tresspassing?
You haven't decided if it's worng for a pedophile to be harbored by a pastor, where he has total, unfettered access to children?
Say no more. You've just said it all.
Concerned
You would not be on this web site blogging Pastor Steve if you were not following a leader in this world (sure not Jesus).
You give a long list of false accusations against our Pastor a little bit of truth and embellished it to suit your agenda. The PW scandal was and is just something for the, "trolls" (you) are in the congregation of Bellevue (minority) to capitalize on and now you continue to troll around looking for something else (manifying glass) Mom4 sounds like a Manning I wonder if Joyce Rogers thinks the same thing? I truely feel sorry for the conditions of your hearts.
I deeply appreciate the comments of Why it is comforting to know that I am not the only one who cares enough about those who publically announce that they are enemies of our Pastor. I do not have to defend Brother Steve or myself because God stands in our defense and we are fully protected by His Grace and nothing you can do or say can get passed Him. You think you know exactly who I am but you don't; only God knows and at this very moment He floods my heart with peace. I wish so much that I could share His peace with each of you but you are not willing. Maybe someday!
seeking,
So the PW thing was no big deal?
SEEKING,
It is a lie that Joyce Rogers has been attending GBC and some other churches?
I don't want to say that Ken Whitten won't be going to GBC, but based on the following, it would be a tough decision.
The 9,000-member Idlewild Baptist Church is building a $73 million, 400,000-square-foot building on a 143-acre lot. The church, which has a staff of 66 people including 22 pastors, is planning to move from Tampa to its new location in Lutz, at the northern edge of the Tampa area, in September.
The new sanctuary will hold about 5,200 people, two and a half times larger than the 2,000-seat sanctuary Whitten preaches in these days.
Bystander said: "At one point, this blog might have led to a wellspring of great support which could have impacted the church."
Bystander, in all seriousness, what more could the concerned people of BBC do to impact the church? They have had meetings as small groups with leadership, they have begged for meetings corporately, they have searched scripture, prayed unceasingly, cried.......tried to hold the leadership to God's Word. I really would like to know what else you think could have been done.
PS It sounds like you think a wellspring of support for Bro. Steve could have impacted the church but I surely can't believe a discerning Christan could think that, seeing how God's Word has been ignored and mocked by current leadership.
Please explain.
Seeking: Please do not worry about me. I am at peace. True peace. I know scripture, I know whom I follow, and I know who is in control of my life. I think I'll stay with my Lord and Savior above men, thanks.
You haven't taken sides on whether or not it is wrong for a pastor to break the law by tresspassing?
You haven't decided if it's worng for a pedophile to be harbored by a pastor, where he has total, unfettered access to children?
Say no more. You've just said it all.
Maybe I should say I've seen truth on both sides. There is no question that it is wrong for Anybody to harbor a pedophile-grossly wrong. Further, it's wrong for a pastor to break the law by trespassing. There are many other wrongs that have been mentioned over and over and over.
I'm simply trying to ask an objective, fair question. At what point do you acknowledge that your point has been made...that anyone in the world who wants to see your point has or can...and that once your point has been made and you've seen whether there is a ground swell of support to take you to another level, or not-that you move on?
I'm simply a curious outsider looking in, since it's a public blog, and wondering if/when your energies could be used for the Glory of God in another direction? You've been a prophetic voice for BBC. That is a point that is hard for either side to dispute (imho) but at what point do you move on?
I get the sense from your response that you are angry and frustrated with my comments. Please forgive me. I'm simply trying to make a point that's true without raising others' emotions to the boiling point.
Seekinghiswill,
"PAYDAY, SOMEDAY"!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone but me notice that Seeking doesn't respond to specific questions? SHE/HE just spews her blind loyalty to King Steve.
Anyone that would say that the PW thing was " just something for the trolls" sounds to me like it was no big deal.
David Brown, You wanna take a shot at this?
bystander,
Ok, since you have acknowledged that those two things are wrong, you have regained your credibility.
You make valid points. I guess that we will stop grieving when we stop grieving..don't know how else to do it.
Bystander said: "At one point, this blog might have led to a wellspring of great support which could have impacted the church."
in all seriousness, what more could the concerned people of BBC do to impact the church? They have had meetings as small groups with leadership, they have begged for meetings corporately, they have searched scripture, prayed unceasingly, cried.......tried to hold the leadership to God's Word. I really would like to know what else you think could have been done.
I don't think you could have done anything more. I'm not trying to be critical. I think every possible avenue has been exhausted-at least every one I can think of. And I think every effort was made with every bit of due dilligence possible. I'm just saying they didn't work. I couldn't have done anything more either. I'm only asking the question: "At what point do you move on?"
bystander,
I guess that if you ARE a bystander, standing and looking in, it's a valid question to ask as to why don't we just move on.
I guess that answer to that is becuase we are human beings, and we have been hurt, crushed, and betrayed and that has to work it's way thru the grieving process.
Someone else can't determine when that comes to an end. Only the people doing the grieving can make that determination.
Sickofthelies...
Thanks for the credibility comment. I'm really not trying to be argumentative. Since I haven't been involved in any of the issues it may be a bit easier for me to see things a little more objectively.
Grief is surely a difficult emotion to overcome. But does it not make sense to close this chapter and open a new chapter of your spiritual journey that can, once again, be filled with peace instead of turmoil?
Bystander,
Of course it makes SENSE.
But we are dealing with the human emotions of PEOPLE. Someone else just can't determine that WE are finished grieiving.
Bystander: You ask a valid question. Since I have no idea at your point in life, I just wonder if this analogy would help. I have kids. If one strayed far from God and family, I would fight with every available "weapon" I had to bring that loved wayward child back. If a person had led my child astray, I would try every means to get that bad influence away from my beloved child. Since I have invested years of love and work into this child, I would try every avenue possible. There would come a time, however, when the only thing left to do for the loved wayward child would be to pray.
The truthseekers on this blog have invested years into this church....this family of believers. They have grown up there, married there, had children there, worked there, grown there, met God there. This is personal. BBC is a huge part of their life. Someone has come and led their church away from God. They are trying every known way to guide the church back. There will come a time when all avenues are exhausted and all that is left is to pray. That will be an individual point. The pain and grief is deep. They will have to move on if God is no longer honored, worshiped, and revered.
Sickofthelies said:..."I guess that answer to that is becuase we are human beings, and we have been hurt, crushed, and betrayed and that has to work it's way thru the grieving process.
Someone else can't determine when that comes to an end. Only the people doing the grieving can make that determination..."
I've seen the hurt, crush, and betrayal in many of the comments these last months. You're right, no one can determine when another person's grieving is subsiding.
I am simply trying to gently urge those who are feeling the grief to take some small steps toward healing. So much of the discussion seems to center around negative, critical, or sarcastic comments that keep the coals of hurt and betrayal burning, whereas constructive discussion together about 'next moves' seems so much more productive.
For the record, Mom4 is NOT a Manning - not that there's anything wrong with being a Manning - they are wonderful people! :)
Tappity, Tap, Tap, Tap!!!
karen
seeker said...
"Mom4 sounds like a Manning" - HAHAHAHA - boy are you REALLY in the dark. Dear lady, you have absolutely no clue! I don't even know the Mannings....and they don't know me. AND Mrs Rogers probably doesn't even know my name. But I know Jesus, and I know who you are, and I know that you are in the dark. Why don't you shed the Light of God's Word on your attitude and ideas about the goings on at BBC? Then you will see a little more clearly.
Josh Manning,
I LOVE YA MAN!!!
Do I hear a tapping noise?
You would not be on this web site blogging Pastor Steve if you were not following a leader in this world (sure not Jesus).
Nice. You're not only accusing concerned (and others) of not following Jesus, you are presuming to speak for Him. Can you show us in Scripture where judging a person by their fruits is unbiblical?
You give a long list of false accusations against our Pastor a little bit of truth and embellished it to suit your agenda.
Oh, bless your heart. Now you are telling concerned what her agenda is? Interesting.
The PW scandal was and is just something for the, "trolls" (you) are in the congregation of Bellevue (minority) to capitalize on and now you continue to troll around looking for something else (manifying glass) Mom4 sounds like a Manning I wonder if Joyce Rogers thinks the same thing?
Like I said yesterday, no magnifying glass is necessary. No embellishment. No exaggeration. The truth hurts sometimes.
I truely feel sorry for the conditions of your hearts.
Could have fooled me. And really, there's no need to feel sorry... my heart is desperately sick (Jer 17:9) but has been made new by the power of God (Ez 36:26; 1 Pet 1:23)
I deeply appreciate the comments of Why it is comforting to know that I am not the only one who cares enough about those who publically announce that they are enemies of our Pastor.
Enemies? Did you even read a word I wrote to you yesterday? We have an enemy all right (Eph 6) but it is not SG.
I do not have to defend Brother Steve or myself because God stands in our defense and we are fully protected by His Grace and nothing you can do or say can get passed Him.
A HOLY God does not defend SIN. Ever. Got it? Ever!
You think you know exactly who I am but you don't; only God knows and at this very moment He floods my heart with peace. I wish so much that I could share His peace with each of you but you are not willing. Maybe someday!
I don't really care who you are. God knows who you are and we will give an account for every word we have spoken (including our words on blogs).
Bystander said "whereas constructive discussion together about 'next moves' seems so much more productive."
You would be surprised at how much discussion about next moves goes on behind the scenes. Because this is an open forum, some things are better discussed in private.
And to finish my previous post.....that point will be different for each person as God leads.
Thank you Karen!
BTW, perhaps the Mannings are much more gracious and nicer than I am. I have trouble tolerating bold face lies in people that profess to be pastors, the Mannings don't tolerate them either, they are just not as vocal as I am about it. Perhaps they have more respect for the office of pastor than I do? I always had and always will have respect for Dr Rogers and Joyce, but I will not stand by while the Lord's church is defaced by a man with neither the integrity nor the character to run a garbage truck, let alone a church with the legacy of BBC.
If anyone remembers, Dr Adrian Rogers and his supporters actually shouted people off the platform when they spoke against the inerrancy of the scriptures back during the SBC's housecleaning. What was wrong with that?
Jesus took a WHIP and drove out the moneychangers! I guess some folks would think there is something wrong with THAT too!
Cheesy...
Karen said...
Tappity, Tap, Tap, Tap!!!
REPLY:
I believe that is:
Tappity, Tapp, Tapp, Tapp!!!
MOM4 said...
Perhaps they have more respect for the office of pastor than I do?
REPLY:
I pray you meant:
Perhaps they have more respect for THE PASTOR than I do?
Always respect the OFFICE OF PASTOR.
Dear Charlie Fox: The new church is already open, Ken and his church family opened it about a year ago. My wife attends there when she is down to Tampa on business. Ken has had 3 major church moves/building projects since he moved there. As much as I would love to see him back in Memphis, I sincerely doubt he will come back.
Now for the real reason I am posting. If you are reading my comments here and don't agree with them, please do not go to some other blog and rail me. Have the courage and backbone to contact me. My email address and phone number have been on my profile since day one. All you have to do is pick up the phone. So stop taking things out of context here and running over to other blogs to make brownie points.
I stand amazed at how some "beievers" will tolerate and accept behavior that if it had happened in their own families they would be calling the law down from heaven. I have a pet phrase for that but some don't like it. Well if the shoe fits wear it. If it looks like chicken and tastes like chicken it must be chicken, yet some say it ain't so.
I gave a press conference on Tuesday where I spoke out about some "other" men of God and their inappropriate sexual behavior. I have been so blessed to hear from so many of the faithful of this religion. They have had enough like I have had. They are now demanding action.
No this is not a small bunch of discontent believers. The numbers are large and the Diocese of Memphis is about to see. Same goes for those that demand truth and transparency of Bellevue.
I hate this term but some of the "pro" Steve Gaimes group have started calling us "anti". I am not anti anything and certainly not Steve Gaines. I just don't think he is qualified to be a Senior Pastor. I pray for him daily. I love him. He is a fellow believer in Christ as I am. But he should resign. By not taking action and putting that task onto someone else was wrong. He put too many children at risk.
Do we take a collective sigh of relief that there are no other victims? Hardly. Time will answer that one. What if it had been some other predator minister?
No Seekinghiswill: We are trying to protect our children and yours. This horrible crime thrives on silence and darkness. It is about abuse of power. That is the heart of it and when the Senior Pastor fails to take action for 7 months that is abuse of power. The two go hand in hand.
I will say this once again, I praise the Lord for what he allowed me to endure in 1961. Because of it, I am able to stand before you today and say HE is alive and well. I count it all glory, HIS GLORY. HE is the one in charge, I am just a tool. Yesterday I heard from yet another victim of a clergy for the first time. He wanted to understand why I have the faith as I do. That is why I do what I do.
IN HIS SERVICE.
David Brown
Hi Charlie,
The office of pastor at BBC is vacant and defiled at this time. When a pastor fills the pulpit, my respect for that particular "position" will be restored. I apologize if I left you with the wrong impression. I, like many others, do NOT respect the present office of the pastor at BBC. It is like politics I guess, while President Clinton was in office, I held no respect in my heart for him or the office he represented, however, I did pray for him as a person and even (dare I say) Hilary was in my prayers during his tenure, but respect for the positions they held was not in my heart because of their sinful leadership. I turned away from anything but bringing them before the Throne in intercessory prayer. I hope you understand where I am coming from, I just cannot get a handle on any form of respect for blatant sin, regardless of what position the sinner may hold.
Bystander said...
As a non-member of your church, I have been following your crises for months. Daily. Having been in the Church for 35 years and seen many disagreements and splits, for the life of me, I can't figure out the ultimate purpose of your blog.
Most of us who are members of Bellevue have never gone thru a "church split" before. Since you have been keeping up with the blog for sometime, I'm sure you are aware many of us have been at Bellevue for many, many yrs, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 32, 34 for me, and probably much longer for others. Many people where born into Bellevue and their family roots at Bellevue go back for many generations. Bellevue was more than a Sunday morning worship ritual for most of us, it was family, church home and refuge from the world. A place where when you walked in the door you felt God's Holy Spirit surround you.
We have never had to question the way our church was run because we have had men of integrity and honesty in the pulpit.
One of the purpose's of this blog is to have a place where fellow Bellevue members and fellow members of God's family can come together and encourage each other, share scripture to those hurting and in need of answers, and yes, disclose the truth in hopes that others eyes will be opened.
You may vehemently disagree with the way the present leadership has handled all of these problems...but is it not obvious that the direction of the leadership is set? Is it not obvious you won't be able to change the course?
You are absolutely right! We do disagree with:
1. Trespassing on private property in a gated community and climbing over the "itty-bitty" 41" fence, then trying to liken it to an EE visit. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, then Assoc Pastor Mark Dougharty, Chuck Taylor and John Caldwell.
2. Refusing to be transparent in the financial matters of the church
3. Refusing to allow members a membership directory, copies of by-laws, copies of minutes of Board meetings..oh, I forgot, no minutes, no business to discuss, just more evidence that a few corrupt men are handling all the church business as they choose and are accountable to NO ONE!
4. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, Calling a deacon "Hez" after he and his 3 co-conspirators trespassed on the deacons property.
5. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, using the church credit card for personal expenses, and standing before the church on a Wed night and lying about EVER using the church credit card for personal use.
6. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines refusing to abide by Matt 18.
7. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, saying he doesn't preach on Wed nights, needs time with his family..TRUTH..HE HAS HAD SEVERAL SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS AWAY FROM BELLEVUE ON WED NIGHTS FOR EXTRA $$$$ AND SEVERAL WERE CANCELLED WHEN THE WORLD FOUND OUT ABOUT HIS HARBORING A PEDOPHILE MINISTER ON STAFF FOR 6 MONTHS AFTER THE PEDOPHILE MINISTER CONFESSED TO STEVE GAINES AND STEVE GAINES DID NOTHING ABOUT IT, UNTIL THE VICTIM CALLED HIS HAND ON IT!
8. Steve Gaines, Sr Pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church harboring a confessed pedophile minister for 6 months, allowing him to roam the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church and saying "it is under the blood". Steve Gaines only revealing the information when the victim, the son of the pedophile, came to Steve Gaines wanting to know how he could allow him to remain in his position. If not for this brave young man, would PW still be roaming the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church??
9. Steve Gaines bragging to his Gardendale congregation how he "told them everything that is wrong with Bellevue", talking to Union in Jackson bragging about the "information meeting, no discussions" and that he didn't just fall off a cabbage truck!
10. The joke of a monkey-business meeting. The pre-planned motion to adjourn..because of their concern of children staying in the nursery so long and the nursery workers, what a joke!! When the motion was made to have quarterly business meetings and to adopt the SBC's June 2002 resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers one of their pre-planned plants, Mr Angel, made the motion to adjourn. Them bragging about shutting down the mic's. They saw the victim approaching a mic to be addressed and shut down the mic and had the audacity to brag about it!
11. They are concerned about the nursery workers, who were paid help for the monkey business meeting, and the children being in the nursery for maybe an additional 10-15 minutes, long enough to vote on adopting the SBC's resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers and having quarterly business meetings...BUT, STEVE GAINES was NOT concerned about allowing a confessed pedophile roam the halls, exposed to children, anytime he would desire to be, for 6 MONTHS AFTER THE PEDOPHILE CONFESSED TO STEVE GAINES!!!!!!!
I ASK, WHY IS STEVE GAINES STILL THE MINISTER OF BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH AND WHY IS ANYONE STILL SUPPORTING HIM OR ANY OF LEADERSHIP THAT IS A PARTY TO ANY OF THE ABOVE ACTIONS??!!
Bystander said...
I think every possible avenue has been exhausted-at least every one I can think of.
I don't think Steve Gaines or any of the "corrupt leadership" will ever resign on their own.
Only by Almighty God himself will these men be dealt with, in God's way and His time.
I'm only asking the question: "At what point do you move on?",
When we know, we will know.
The Lord will open the door for us to move on, the Lord will tell us when to stop pursuing truth at BBC.
IF the Lord moves me, I will move. IF the Lord tells me to stop pursuing the truth, I will stop. There will be no questions asked, I will just do as He says.
By the same Word, the Lord will determine if Steve Gaines is turned over for the destruction of the flesh according to scripture, the consequence for an unrepentant heart.
Charlie Fox said...
Karen said...
Tappity, Tap, Tap, Tap!!!
REPLY:
I believe that is:
Tappity, Tapp, Tapp, Tapp!!!
CHARLIE! I stand corrected, but I didn't want to "go there"! :)
Mom4, you're welcome!
Seekinghiswill, Could you please get REALLY SPECIFIC on what bold face lies we are spreading? I really want to know what you believe to be lies - if you get specific, we can impart the truth you with no question on content or intent. Thanks!
Seekhiswill,
For example:
1. The blog said Steve did___________________
The truth is ______________________
This format would really help in dispelling any rumor or untruth you perceive.
Thanks!
Thank you sheepless! Now seekinghiswill doesn't have to do any extra work! :)
Seekinghiswill, which one of these facts is a bold face lie? What are we gossping about if these are truths? How can you continue to support a pastor that has done these things? Please be specific instead of just blasting away in generalities.
Thanks!
1. Trespassing on private property in a gated community and climbing over the "itty-bitty" 41" fence, then trying to liken it to an EE visit. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, then Assoc Pastor Mark Dougharty, Chuck Taylor and John Caldwell.
2. Refusing to be transparent in the financial matters of the church
3. Refusing to allow members a membership directory, copies of by-laws, copies of minutes of Board meetings..oh, I forgot, no minutes, no business to discuss, just more evidence that a few corrupt men are handling all the church business as they choose and are accountable to NO ONE!
4. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, Calling a deacon "Hez" after he and his 3 co-conspirators trespassed on the deacons property.
5. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, using the church credit card for personal expenses, and standing before the church on a Wed night and lying about EVER using the church credit card for personal use.
6. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines refusing to abide by Matt 18.
7. Sr Pastor, Steve Gaines, saying he doesn't preach on Wed nights, needs time with his family..TRUTH..HE HAS HAD SEVERAL SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS AWAY FROM BELLEVUE ON WED NIGHTS FOR EXTRA $$$$ AND SEVERAL WERE CANCELLED WHEN THE WORLD FOUND OUT ABOUT HIS HARBORING A PEDOPHILE MINISTER ON STAFF FOR 6 MONTHS AFTER THE PEDOPHILE MINISTER CONFESSED TO STEVE GAINES AND STEVE GAINES DID NOTHING ABOUT IT, UNTIL THE VICTIM CALLED HIS HAND ON IT!
8. Steve Gaines, Sr Pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church harboring a confessed pedophile minister for 6 months, allowing him to roam the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church and saying "it is under the blood". Steve Gaines only revealing the information when the victim, the son of the pedophile, came to Steve Gaines wanting to know how he could allow him to remain in his position. If not for this brave young man, would PW still be roaming the halls of Bellevue Baptist Church??
9. Steve Gaines bragging to his Gardendale congregation how he "told them everything that is wrong with Bellevue", talking to Union in Jackson bragging about the "information meeting, no discussions" and that he didn't just fall off a cabbage truck!
10. The joke of a monkey-business meeting. The pre-planned motion to adjourn..because of their concern of children staying in the nursery so long and the nursery workers, what a joke!! When the motion was made to have quarterly business meetings and to adopt the SBC's June 2002 resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers one of their pre-planned plants, Mr Angel, made the motion to adjourn. Them bragging about shutting down the mic's. They saw the victim approaching a mic to be addressed and shut down the mic and had the audacity to brag about it!
11. They are concerned about the nursery workers, who were paid help for the monkey business meeting, and the children being in the nursery for maybe an additional 10-15 minutes, long enough to vote on adopting the SBC's resolution on the sexual integrity of ministers and having quarterly business meetings...BUT, STEVE GAINES was NOT concerned about allowing a confessed pedophile roam the halls, exposed to children, anytime he would desire to be, for 6 MONTHS AFTER THE PEDOPHILE CONFESSED TO STEVE GAINES!!!!!!!
Karen,
Just a few "tiny" transgressions, there are plenty more
sheepless,
That's just TOP 10, errr, 11 list. I think it's a great start and well stated. We'll see how long it takes before "why" or "seek" come by to dispute it.
tick, tick, tick.....
karen
Seems "they" have a hard time disputing the FACTS!
Why is the question? said...
Karen posted: Steve Gaines said Mark Sharpe was Hezbollah, so if that's not pointing a finger and calling Mark evil, I'd love to see your definition.
Reply: No, he did say that. Wording is everything. And you and others wonder how things get spun and twisted??
HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN EXACTLY AS STATED? WERE YOU ON THE PHONE WITH STEVE GAINES, MARK SHARPE AND LYDIA SHARPE AND RICHARD EMERSON WHEN THE INCIDENT HAPPENED? I HEARD IT EXACTLY AS MARK SHARPE SAID IT HAPPENED - WHO DID YOU HEAR IT FROM?
Sorry I yelled, but I am so sick of people trying to say they know stuff when they DON'T HAVE A CLUE!
karen
Sorry to get off topic, but it's a Sign of the Apocalypse!
Jr. is leaving DEI!
:)
karen
mom4 said,
By the same Word, the Lord will determine if Steve Gaines is turned over for the destruction of the flesh according to scripture, the consequence for an unrepentant heart.
Only if the unrepentant heart is that of a believer.
Steve Gaines may go on for years, we don't know the condition of his heart, just the fruit of his spirit.
CHECK OUT THE NEW TOPIC.
Thanks,
NBBCOF
Bystander, thankyou! I take your advice. I am delighted to be labeled a, "troll" on this web site instead of one in Bellevue. I would like to extend an invitation for you to come and visit us at Bellevue; God is doing a great work and the only ones who walk around with grim faces are those who, "troll" the halls trying to come up with some dirt or ways to discourage others from worshiping Jesus Christ. These same people who are doing this, claiming that Brother Steve was appointed by, "man" instead of God, constantly pay tribute to Dr. Rogers and is that not strange concidering Dr. Rogers picked and highly recommended Steve Gaines to become his personal pastor. Do you see something wrong with the picture they paint? I will give Karen pleasure for a brief moment regarding the 6 months of haboring a child molestor: Were you in the office with Paul and Claudia Williams when Brother Steve was given their take on the past abuse? If Brother Steve broke the law do you not think that he would be facing a judge? If David Brown could have, he would have had charges brought against the man who you and some of your buddies are out to destroy. I am sorry for you; I am sorry for all of you; I do not take pleasure in listening to other people who are struggling with hatred and bitterness. My heart is moved with mercy and compassion to reach out and help you to move on in life. One step closer to the Spirit filled life where we work together under submission of God and by faith accept His will, fully trusting Him to provide the leader for us. I do NOT follow man, any man, by faith I follow God and His Word. His Word teaches that we are to have Pastors and if I could not serve under a Pastor for what ever reason I would go somewhere else. I am asking each of you who are so unhappy with the leadership of our church to please just move on and find a place where you can serve God and please do not carry you anger and revenge into another fellowship and bring them harm. Do business with the Lord, shake the dust off of you feet, leave the troubles behind you and move on. We wish you well and blessings to come and ask the same of you for us. Time will reveal a lot of things!
mom4,
I know exactly where you are coming from. However, I ALWAYS respect the OFFICE, but not always the OFFICER. There IS a difference.
Post a Comment