At Bellevue:
Memphis Passion Play
Sunday, April 1st
3:00 p.m. (Sold Out)
6:30 p.m.
Monday, April 2nd
7:00 p.m.
Tuesday, April 3rd
7:00 p.m.
Wednesday, April 4th
7:00 p.m.
At Germantown Baptist:
Germantown Passion Play
Sunday, April 1st
5:30 p.m.
There are several Bellevue members participating in this year's GBC passion play which is directed by Dr. Jim Whitmire.
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743 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 743 Newer› Newest»butterfly crown, so sorry you were insulted. I truely didn't mean what I said to be the way you took it. I guess I just didn't express myself clearly.
I don't believe the main reason GBC is being blessed is just because of said persons, but I do feel that God has blessed them along with GBC.
I surely hope that you do not serve any person, pastor or staff member! That would be awful to do that!
Proverbs: Your 7:17 post was still good.
What is hypocritcal "dribble."
Is that dribbling while condeming another for dribbling? I don't get it.
Okay, this was a "spew soda" moment! What a mess!!!!
socwork: back at you! :)
Oh, there's that 'spew' word again!
proverbs 12:22 wrote:
"NASS, if I had known you were a hypocritical dribbler I would never have started reading your blog. You really should have disclosed this months ago."
Oops. My apologies for not disclosing that. You're right. I should have been honest and up front. Can you ever forgive me?
Still waiting for that e-mail from you!
Hi, oc! *waving*
Don't forget "hate!"
NASS, I didn't know you wanted email from me. You are welcome to email me anytime you want to.
Love ya, NASS.
Socwork,
Oh yeah. That's an important part, ain't it? :)
lovebbc,
Just curious as to why you left Broadway to become a member at Bellevue?
The 1999 session of the Southern Baptist Convention, meeting in Atlanta, Georgia, adopted the following motion addressed to the President of the Convention:
"I move that in your capacity as Southern Baptist Convention chairman, you appoint a blue ribbon committee to review the Baptist Faith and Message statement with the responsibility to report and bring any recommendations to this meeting next June in Orlando."
President Paige Patterson appointed the committee as follows: Max Barnett (OK), Steve Gaines (AL), Susie Hawkins (TX), Rudy A. Hernandez (TX), Charles S. Kelley, Jr. (LA), Heather King (IN), Richard D. Land (TN), Fred Luter (LA), R. Albert Mohler, Jr. (KY), T. C. Pinckney (VA), Nelson Price (GA), Adrian Rogers (TN), Roger Spradlin (CA), Simon Tsoi (AZ), Jerry Vines (FL). Adrian Rogers (TN) was appointed chairman
Would you support an effort to call the church into an open business meeting?
SIGN HERE
Proverbs 12:22 said...
Musicguy,
Many of us have choose to overlook statements made by certain bloggers because we know certain things about them you do not know. SOTL is a victim of child sexual abuse and she has had unreal encounters with BBC personnell and members in recent months. She is entitled to some outrage. It is obvious she is still dealing with a lot of pain. She is a dear sister in Christ and we love her, even if we do not always agree with every word she says.
I've been around long enough to have gathered what SOTL has been through. Does that give her license to call people names? (Thanks to SOTL for apologizing BTW). Some of you are quick to call out about sin in the leadership, but you won't call it out amongst yourselves just because of someone's past?Honestly, I have never seen anyone on the "pro-Gaines side" (for lack of a better term) call any of the "truth-seekers" a moonbat, the Bellevue Mafia, a toilet, etc. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The truth is neither of you (you here is a general term) are doing much to further the cause of Christ based on some of the behavior. I am not talking about standing for truth or your convictions--I am talking about name-calling, bitterness, and nasty attitudes toward fellow Christians!
I'm not here to take sides. As a minister, if I had been in SG's position and done some of the things he has done (or not done), I would personally have resigned, and also done whatever I could to restore the church. At the same time, I have also been the "victim" (for lack of a better term) of church members, deacons who would call secret meetings behind my back to try to figure how to get rid of me simply because we did not sing only the songs they liked during the worship service. Or how about the deacon who stood up in his SS class to call for a mutiny of the choir--if you don't show up maybe he'll leave. All I'm saying is that when you are standing up for something, you need to stand up for it with integrity--no matter what side of the fence you're on. Please don't spin it by saying that the "others" don't display so I won't either. I won't post it because of length, but I encourage all of you to read what Paul has to say in Colossians 3 about living and worshiping together as the Body of Christ.
Musicguy,
There has been plenty of name-calling. Our pastor likes to refer to us as the "Adversaries." He could care less about us, even though we are church members who were here years before he was.
I will never read all the posts. I did not see the post you were referring to. You can draw no conclusions because I did not rebuke SOTL or anyone else. Failure to rebuke does not mean I or anyone else agree with them.
Musicguy,
I will add that you are right about name-calling. We shouldn't do it. I was making the point that there has been lots of it on the other side. One dear brother in Christ was referred to as a hemorrhoid.
You said you would have resigned. Good for you. Most men of integrity would have. In the past it would have been inconceivable SG would still be our pastor. Our people have drifted so far from the Word they no longer care about or recognize truth.
Proverbs 12:22 said...
"You can draw no conclusions because I did not rebuke SOTL or anyone else. Failure to rebuke does not mean I or anyone else agree with them."
If this is the case, perhaps you should go a little easier on the folks who are still worshiping and serving at BBC?
"Is a person that accepts Christ at FUMC really saved?
Even though we disagree with their beliefs."
When we are saved we receive a 'new nature that is very sensitive to sin in ourselves and the world around us. It not about whether we agree or disagree. It is about being Born Again in the complete sense of the words. We no longer walk in darkness but in light. I John. God replaces the heart of stone for a heart of flesh. Ez 36.
We hate what God hates (yes, God hates...He says so in scripture) and we love what God loves. We sin but are broken by it and are in repentance daily. We love homosexuals and pray for their salvation but we would never willfully support or condone it as a lifestyle choice. Same with abortion.
Also read 1 John and Romans 9 for more understanding.
No one knows who is elect in the end. But we are taught in scripture to judge fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit consistently.
I'm not attacking those still attending church. I'M STILL WORSHIPPING AND SERVING BELLEVUE AND S0 IS MY HUSBAND. My issue is with the leadership, namely Steve Gaines, Mark Dougharty, David Coombs, Harry Smith, Chuck Taylor and all of the others who have allowed the events of the last eighteen months to transpire or were complicit in those events.
Proverbs--sorry, I meant "you" in the general sense, not necessarily you specifically.
"Paul has finally come to the place where he is truly repentant and accepting of the consequences of his sin."
You need to study Hebrews 10. Pay close attention to verses 26-31.
Then go on over to 1 Cornithians 5. Then read Titus and Timothy.
It is very clear.
Now tell me, Did PW own a Bible for 17 years while he was on staff as a minister. Was he playing minister during that time knowing he was operating totally outside scriptural commands? He cannot plead ignorance of scripture. Nor can Gaines. They can only twist it for personal reasons.
You know what? If he was truly repentent BEFORE he was outed, he would have repented and stepped down from ministry. But he did not. This became public after the victim approached the pastor. STILL, scripture was ignored and the victim treated like dirt. Once again.
Maybe Gaines cannot live up to the 'standards' scripture give us for elders but thousands have throughout history. The standards do not call for sinless perfection.
Gaines is a false teacher and scripture warns quite a bit about them. I pray you will get into the Word.
Lin said...
".... has finally come to the place where he is truly repentant and accepting of the consequences of his sin."
Lin, while I understand the premise of your post, I believe the entire quote read differently. The poster stated "I hope...has come to the place..." I'm sure this was just an oversight.
Patrick and loveBBC: David Brown has asked us to PLEASE not mention the perpetrator or victim's name. In the interest of their privacy, please use initials or generic terms.
"Lin, while I understand the premise of your post, I believe the entire quote read differently. The poster stated "I hope...has come to the place..." I'm sure this was just an oversight. "
Music guy, No oversight at all. lovebbc consistently seems to be confused about basic scriptural precepts.
I surely hope you are as offended about scripture being twisted here as you are about name calling. :0)
Edited and reposted for privacy of victim:
Proverbs 12:22 said...
Patrick,
That is what he said in December when he met with the victim. You can talk to the deacon leadership about this. They can verify that is his viewpoint.
9:06 PM, April 02, 2007
Thanks, piglet and concernedsbcer.
Thank you, NASS. I appreciate you.
Dear Brother and Sisters: I see once again this dear victim's name and his family name being tossed around. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM IT. That request is not coming from me.
Why do some feel it is so necessary to repeatedly use their names? As I have said so many times, if you really knew this dear young man or have even spoken to him you would understand that.
It is not my intent to be mean-spirited but I am trying to protect him and honor his request. From almmost day one this board has gone out of its way to see his wishes were honored.
NASS: I am aksing that either you or the author of some of these recent posts delete them.
I think if folks will go back and check my posts and my interviews, I never mentioned their name, ever. Why can't some of you practice more restraint.? PLEASE!
God Bless and thanks in advance.
David Brown
Victim' Advocate
NASS: You are the best!! You beat me to it.
I owe you one.
All,
Please forgive me. I missed the ref in my copy and paste. I will comply.
Thanks, Patrick. The victim deserves our respect and compassion.
4545,
Don't come here and slander us and call us 'dumb'.
How's that for a 'cute' remark?
45,
Haven't you been banned from posting on this blog?
overflowinggrace, 4545, justmyopinion, et al,
YOU'RE BACK...........?!
Who do you think you're fooling?
Get a life. Almost everyone on here already goes to another church so you can stop acting like a total nut. You definitely are not demonstrating "Christlike" behavior on here with your pointy little finger. Go to your church and enjoy your majority worship. We got the message a thousand times already.
No need to feed the trolls! I told you I'd take out the trash.
Thank you, NASS. :)
Proverbs 12:22 said...
That is what he said in December when he met with the victim. You can talk to the deacon leadership about this. They can verify that is his viewpoint.
9:06 PM, April 02, 2007
Proverbs,
I missed this, must be about Steve Gaines viewpoint.
Can you post again what he said in December and what his viewpoint is.
NASS, is your name Donna G???!!
2006,
" pointy little finger"
I"m still laughing...oh, the mental picture!!! LOL
2006, SOTL,
"pointy little finger" and
"pursed lips" LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL
You both are toooooooooo funny!!
lovebbc,
You are "maybejustmaybe", aren't you?
We don't really have so many enemies who come here and taunt us on a regular basis.
We have a couple or three who use several different names who try to make it appear as though there are many when they are few.
I don't know how long it is going to take for them to realize that even though we may totally stop going to The New Purpose Driven Bellevue, we will never stop communicating with each other right here on this very blog. Yeah, we're sort of like that little Coppertone puppy who is biting the seat of the pants of the little child. We just keep on hangin' on.
I don't have anything witty, humourous, profound, dumb, or even mundane to say tonight. Just thought I'd say so.
4545 aka overflowinggrace aka justmyopinion,
I know who you are.
Junk: We love you anyway.
Thanks, concerned! I think you're the first person to say that to me today!
4545 wrote:
"when have I ever been banned?"
AS OF RIGHT NOW! Good bye, Mr. Deacon.
NBBCOF
Junk,
Awww..Come on man! You can do better than that! Maybe you could 'spew'! Oh yeah, that's someone else's job. :)
Would it be inappropriate if we all joined hands and sang this right now?
Na Na Na Na, Na Na Na NA
HEY HEY
GOOD BYEEEEEEEE
concernedsbcr,
You can find one exchange on tithing on the Jan 7 and 9 thread archives. Look for david s and my replies.
Ezekiel: Thank you so much. I'll get right on that.
Here you go sheepless
Proverbs 12:22 said...
Steve Gaines has said that he has searched the Scriptures and can find nothing which disqualifies PW from ministry. He believes that we have to be careful with the standard found in Scripture because no one can live up to them. He calls the biblical qualifications for ministry mere "guidelines."
That, my friend, is a liberal!
Yes, please check out the sermon the night Coombs was ordained. It was a doozy. He absolutely tortured the text to make his points. I was embarrassed and even afraid for him. You can't mock the Lord the way he did and get away with it for long.
7:01 PM, April 02, 2007
Why would I want to go to a liberal church?
If I want liberal, I'll turn on Cspan and watch Nancy or Hillary.
The church should be about TRUTH, not SPIN. Haven't we had enough of that?
Whew! Things have gotten downright feisty in here while I've been getting the you-know-what beat out of me at the pool hall (no beer tonight though--bleech!). Man, I missed all the fun.
Well, I apologize. There has been a line of reasoning over at Bratton's saying that leadership has met your demands, that y'all will never be happy, until Gaines is history, especially from Mr. Colcate.
They wish to embroil you in bottomless parsing of the details, then paint you as the angry mob out to see someone's head on a pike. So when you engage one of these clowns, be sure and don't let them goad you into providing for their traps. And sorry, fellers, that's exactly what they are.
Everyone knows (well, everyone with common-sense) knows that Gaines should resign, along with the band of sinister ministers that likewise acted irresponsibly in knowledge of a pedophile. There is no recourse to personal sentiment, the lack of a "policy," self-possessed fear, stupidity, etc.
But, your first priority should be a hearing that (you won't, sadly, get) is open and representative of all parties whom have a rightful stake in Bellevue; it can be stated without credible opposition that the leadership has thwarted such a forum since the beginning of the scandal.
The reason the leadership has heaped injury upon injury avoiding such an absolutely needed outlet is because they know a straightforward telling would betray a claim to their exalted stations.
But for whatever they win in the short term, this legacy--not just of the pedophile minister scandal itself, but the tradgedy of its aftermath--will be Bellevue's albatross.
Anyway, it was so beautiful today--woo-hooooo!
SOTL wrote:
"Would it be inappropriate if we all joined hands and sang this right now?"
Uh... probably... at least in public.
lovecakes wrote:
"There has been a line of reasoning over at Bratton's saying that leadership has met your demands, that y'all will never be happy, until Gaines is history, especially from Mr. Colcate."
Well, I haven't read it, but I'd have to say that would be a line of "something," all right, but it ain't "reasoning."
Hey, lay off the liberals. I'm a liberal, and I'm a nice person.
<{^:C
fellas and fella-ettes,
haven't checked in on you in a couple of days...just thought I would encourage you by letting you know of my diligent watchfulness.
Whenever there's a pastoral truth deficiency , BillLoney will be around.
Whenever there's a CEO that needs ordaining, you'll find BillLoney near.
Whenever there's a budget that has to be veiled in secrecy...how bout a little BillLoney?
Whenever there's a meeting that needs to adjourn prematurely, you guessed it, BillLoney.
Have a question on how to handle staff criminals...BillLoney!!
And whenever someone gets to stay on committees continuously for a decade, it's BillLoney time!
Like my dear great aunt, Lotta Payne, used to say: "If it aint broke... please dont let BillLoney touch it"
fare thee well,
William T. Loney, M.D.
ps...does anyone know how to put out grease fires?
Cakes: Thank you for your excellent logical reasoning on this situation, and for "watching our backs." We love you too, even if you are a liberal! ;)
sheeplessatbbc wrote:
"NASS, is your name Donna G???!!"
Boy, there really is a full moon tonight, isn't there? If I hadn't checked your profile, I'd accuse the person who posted that of being a fake. Someday... somewhere... when you least expect it, I will get you for that!
Bill Loney,
Oh, how I've missed you, although there's plenty of balogna on the thread today, my own included.
Remind me, I'm hungry.
Trollcakes Said...
Whew! Things have gotten downright feisty in here while I've been getting the you-know-what beat out of me at the pool hall (no beer tonight though--bleech!). Man, I missed all the fun.
Ya ought to try Bowling :).
Koragg,
Wipe your face--you've got something on your lip.
l^;
someone said...
I would be opposed to makeing FUMC an annual contribution like we do with Mid America, plant churches etc.....
I do think their is a big difference.
This misinformed person has touched on something that has troubled me since the biz meeting.
When the motion was made to donate additional monies to MABTS, someone near me made the point that BBC donated the land to them. OTOH they also made the point that we could also make a decision later to give MABTS more funds later (this is a BUDGET after all and we have a surplus).
However later I spoke to a friend about it and they pointed out that there was a big difference in last years MABTS gift and this year's budgeted gift. Hmmm...I'd have no way of knowing that as I don't keep the older Annual Reports.
As to "someone's" remark, at least he remembered MABTS was an annual contribution.
As to FUMC, one of my problems with that is (if info I gleaned from this blog is correct) that SG's excuse was that he was (and I paraphrase because I don't have time to search the blog) new in town and unfamiliar with FUMC's activities. That strikes me as a poor excuse. If you're new in town and have dozens of capable and knowledgable ministers and lay leaders to consult, why would you be compeled to make that decision alone? That's a fairly serious lapse in managerial skill (IMHO). So my choices of excuses are;
- I didn't know any better
or
- It was my call and no one should question me
Neither are reasonable to me.
There are hundreds of BBC members who's annual income is far less than that gift, who through their generosity give above their 10%.
I would think they's be more than a little perturbed about the donation. Perhaps it's just a coincidence but the FUMC pastor is a sibling of a BBC member.
Bowling? Nah, I'd end up breaking my cue.
Lovecakes,
it is great to be missed! like when my family was throwing bottles at me at the last reunion...it was sure great that they missed me!
on a more serious note, does anyone know the number to 911? And, is it a bad thing for the rangetop to melt?
William T. Loney, M.D.
bill loney said...
Lovecakes,
it is great to be missed! like when my family was throwing bottles at me at the last reunion...it was sure great that they missed me!
Dear Dr. Loney,
I would think a pillar of the community such as yourself would refrain from going to family reunions to pick up girls. :-)
Concerned,
Well, the feeling is mutual.
U^8
OK...all I remember about firesafety is stop, drop and roll. I've been rolling all over the kitchen floor, but the grease fire isn't responding. But on the positive side, my floor hasn't had this kind of sheen in months!
William T. Loney, M.D., PHd, MBA, BS, DDS, and PTA
bill loney,
I don't know who you are, but you are funny.
I sure did need a good laugh tonight too.
Don't forget to take your medication.
pepper said...
lovebbc,
Just curious as to why you left Broadway to become a member at Bellevue?
7:56 PM, April 02, 2007
I say,
My guess would be something concerning the lack of accountability regarding a certain associate pastor.
klavierfrau,
I would never go to a family reunion to do such a thing! Especially after my marriage to cousin Betty didn't work out!
Relax everyone...fire's out. Does anyone have any aloe? About 50 gallons will do.
William T. Loney, M.D.
soc work,
William T Loney M.D.(medicated daily)...way ahead of you!
GOOD NIGHT VOLUNTEER STATE!!! WE LOVE YOU!!
I think the good doctor is taking everyone's medication! :)
NASS says...
P.S. My name isn't Trena or Jessica.
silly NASS.. we all know your name isn't Jessica.
Night Trena.
I'm actually Abraham Lincoln.
bepatient wrote:
"silly NASS.. we all know your name isn't Jessica."
Hey, I was just answering someone's question earlier tonight. My name's not "Trena" either, but several people seem to think it is -- to the point of obsession. I have no idea why that is.
Good night, Abe!
Ilovebbc,
Honey, PW did NOT screw up badly...
you screwed up badly by making ignorant comments without having understanding about child abuse or scripture.
PW commited a CRIME. BBC pastor and leaders excused and covered it.
To leadership, their COVER UP is not a crime because when the minister/ sexual deviant CONFESSED to SG that he had molested his own CHILD ,the victim was now over 18.
That little tidbit of trash came straight from a deacon officers mouth....so they missed breaking the law by a few years....since they didn't break the law and because SG doesn't believe in consequences he is qualified to continue on the ministry????????
Also,honey,
You WERE insensitive to the real victim...certainly not because you mentioned his name, but because you made the perpetrator the victim...
SG thought he was so pitiful,the staff pedophile was given a raise....AFTER his confession to the king.
It was hard for many women like myself to ENJOY his ministry since he used his position as minister to prey on women and possibly their sons since he was very interested in "helping me " with my son. I passed...thank God.!
One more thing,the burden of proof is not on any of us to show who SG is.....he has and continues to prove who he is and is not by his lack of fruit.....and poor decisions,disobedience and twisting of scripture,dishonesty,pride and arrogance....
who in the leadership reached out to the victim after he walked down the balcony stairs to speak?????
SG gave the predator a raise.
What did he give the victim?
SG gave BBC funds to promote his image to the community.
What support did the victim recieve from the church he grew up in ...and suffered in?????
Good night, Bill. Welcome back!
About that family tree of yours... does its overall shape resemble that of a telephone pole?
Patrick Clough said...
Here you go sheepless
Proverbs 12:22 said...
Steve Gaines has said that he has searched the Scriptures and can find nothing which disqualifies PW from ministry. He believes that we have to be careful with the standard found in Scripture because no one can live up to them. He calls the biblical qualifications for ministry mere "guidelines."
That, my friend, is a liberal!
Yes, please check out the sermon the night Coombs was ordained. It was a doozy. He absolutely tortured the text to make his points. I was embarrassed and even afraid for him. You can't mock the Lord the way he did and get away with it for long.
7:01 PM, April 02, 2007
10:59 PM, April 02, 2007
Sheepless said,
Thanks Patrick.
He probably didn't INHALE either!
lin said in reference to ofg:
Is a person that accepts Christ at FUMC really saved?
Even though we disagree with their beliefs.
"When we are saved we receive a 'new nature that is very sensitive to sin in ourselves and the world that is around us.' It not about whether we agree or disagree. It is about being Born Again in the complete sense of the words. We no longer walk in darkness but in light. I John. God replaces the heart of stone for a heart of flesh. Ez 36.
We hate what God hates (yes, God hates...He says so in scripture) and we love what God loves. We sin but are broken by it and are in repentance daily. We love homosexuals and pray for their salvation but we would never willfully support or condone it as a lifestyle choice. Same with abortion."
When we criticize FUMC for their views on homosexuality we should not forget that a pedophile pastor walked the halls of Bellevue for 17 years undetected. There is a correlation to why a liberal church condones homosexuality and a large conservative church has one on staff. There is a lacking of the "new nature that is very sensitive to sin in ourselves and the world around us." It would seem that both churches are abandoned by the Holy Spirit to self determination.
Just wondering...................
New BBC Open Forum said...
I told you I'd take out the trash.
10:19 PM, April 02, 2007
New BBC Open Forum said...
sheeplessatbbc wrote:
"NASS, is your name Donna G???!!"
Boy, there really is a full moon tonight, isn't there? If I hadn't checked your profile, I'd accuse the person who posted that of being a fake. Someday... somewhere... when you least expect it, I will get you for that!
Its The VISION THING
repeat
Its The Vision Thing
Discerning Beleivers:
Dont miss this UK pastoral leadership training site..and its
VISION FORMING instructions to eager pastoral heads full of seeker sensitive mush...
especially note..
the vision forming process to come into his presence and listen for " his voice " ( twilight zone music )
No wonde the Bible is not important to these guys ...theyve made AUDIBLE CONTACT !
Worse...Rick Warren instructs these a globe full of little vision formers...
always hang onto your VISION...even if many choose to leave as the result of your "vision"
ITS' TH VISION THANG
Cue the flying monkeys
klavierfrau said...
Perhaps it's just a coincidence but the FUMC pastor is a sibling of a BBC member.
11:25 PM, April 02, 2007
Sheepless said,
Did everybody miss this last night?? Anyone know more about this??
WHO IS THE FUMC PASTOR's SIBLING AT BBC???
If this is true, it would have to be someone prominent to receive that much consideration.
Correction to my 12:36 post
TO love bbc
not Ilovebbc,
and with the correction,I add what Lin said yesterday...
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit CONSISTANTLY
Check the timeline of events since SG came to BBC
CHURCH GROWTH RESISTERS CALLED " vision killers" by church growth guru and pastoral change agent leadership guru George Barna:
You will not want to miss this NBBCOF and those of you IN PAIN.
truth revealed as to the TRUE DIVIDERS of the flock...
And here you thought that all of those dear old grandmas and grandpas and choir leaders and sunday school teachers and deacons and elders were suddenly found to be divisive troublemakers BY THEIR COMPASSIONATE SWEET HIRELINGS.
nope saints
Barna tells his "lemmings " uh er..." leaders " ..also known as pastors..
those dear old bible believing , prayer filled, faithful saints are..get ready
VISION KILLERS "
CHECK IT OUT
Then get real , real righteously indignant
VISION KILLERS
Concerned,
Did you ever get the answer/scripture to your post of 4/1 at 2:19 ???
I found the scripture a few days before and like SG says and his aids repeat...."he believes in full forgiveness."...which translates into leave out repentance and consequences....
so the verse on being submissive to authority also says...for they watch out for your souls as they will give account....
not quoted but can look up if you did not find.
SG loves to use the parts of scripture that suit his agenda...
never mind the souls of the weak and the lost.
gmommy: No! Could you please send it to me? Thanks so much!
Concerned,
Hebrew 13 v.17
the whole book is full of treasure!!
gmommy: YES!!!! That's it!!! Thank you so much! I kept looking in the epistles (GEPC) thinking it was there. Thanks again.
EVERYONE,
We've been "hoaxed" yet again. I have just determined that the post from CW was not. This appears to be just another attempt to destroy the credibility of this forum and the people posting here and worse, a cruel, despicable act against a young man who has already suffered more than anyone could imagine. It and any references to it have been deleted.
Thank you,
NBBCOF
NASS: I am ANGRY...RIGHTEOUSLY ANGRY. Shame on whoever did that.
concernedsbcer,
That is their goal -- to make us angry and divert us from seeking the truth. As they've illustrated time and time again, they don't care who gets trampled in the process. Don't let them get to you. They're not worth it.
NASS: You are right. I find it so difficult to understand that kind of cruelty. Thanks for taking care of us little lambs!
Matthew 12:33 "...the tree is known by [his] fruit."
Deceit, deceit, deceit...
It doesn't matter that heartless people seek to mock our efforts...
We all must continue to pray for and encourage this precious family.
I stand by my post that the victim has shown more courage and integrity than any of the cowards in leadership.
gmommy: AMEN!
Dear Brothers and Sisters: I am not going to be very kind. In fact I am really mad and would like to use some words that would better describe my outrage but NASS would be booting me off.
To the very sick, sick person (I use the word "person" loosely here) I am coming after you. I do not know what you were thinking by posting using this dear victim's name. He is extremely upset. I am going to find out who you are. I am a licensed private investigator and I WILL find you.
Formal complaints are being made. How dare you. I have a very good idea who you are. In time you will be found out and we will prosecute you. See you in court.
You never gave this victim any regard. You are the worst of the worst. You may think you were cute but it was very sick.
I and this dear victim ask that moderation be turned back on. I know that is not poplar but what just happened is inexcusable.
This is just another example of the attitude and behavior of the "follow and swallow" crowd. I for one am sick of it. It is time for their leader to go. And I mean now.
To all expect this very sick poster, I am sorry for sounding so hate filled and angry. But I cannot sit back and let this slide.
In HIS Service,
David Brown
David,
No reason to apologize.
We should all be outraged at how this precious family is used,abused, and ignored.
My anger from yesterday's post was that the true victim was not considered.
The abuser is given more respect,love and support.....made to be the victim.
This was also the attitude from the deacon officer.
NBBCOF
I would invite you all to check out what so-called pastoral training or " leadership " skills centers that promote seeker sensitive CGM models COUNSEL pastors how to " deal with conflict". THIS IS AMAZING STUFF
This evil brainwashing instruction is very devilishly presented and totally devoid of anything Holy Spirit filled as you will witness.
again..
ITS THE VISION THING...
MAY TRUTH BE REVEALED AND EVIL REPEALED
AMEN
CHURCH GROWTH GURUS ADVICE TO PASTORS IN HOW TO DEAL WITH CONFLICT
Mr Brown,
Thank you for your willingness to get to the bottom of this. I surely wish some within the leadership would make such a stand, but then I understand that they are the ones promoting this malicious agenda. They are acting like all is well, but many of us know that it is not. There is evil in the midst and the lampstand is out. The hedge is removed and all out wickedness is oozing from the followers. Many will deny they are a part of this, but by following in the sins, condoning the acts and failing to follow scripture is approving the sins in the pulpit no matter what kind of spin is put on it.
Thanks to NASS for her promptness in getting the malicious post deleted so quickly.
David Brown said "This is just another example of the attitude and behavior of the "follow and swallow" crowd. I for one am sick of it. It is time for their leader to go. And I mean now."
David, not knowing what was posted I am sure that it was enough to inflame most any of us. But with that said I think that to label a group and/or pastor with supporting that post or condoning it isn't right either. I think most of the "swallow and follow" crowd would be just as angry at what was posted as you are. I don't think myself to be part of one crowd or the other. I just call balls and strikes as I see them. While the pastor has made some gigantic blunders in his actions of past it doesn't justify any assumptions as to whether others would approve of the deleted post. I hope you discover the person responsible and expose him/her for what they are. But in the mean time let's not condemn everyone in the process.
upside down,
The words posted were not inflammatory. It was the fact that some idiot posted using the victim's name as his screen name and signed the victim's name to it. It was a cruel (and probably illegal) thing for anyone to do.
upside down,
For you to post ("I don't think myself to be part of one crowd or the other. I just call balls and strikes as I see them. While the pastor has made some gigantic blunders in his actions of past it doesn't justify any assumptions as to whether others would approve of the deleted post.") shows you are a Steve Gaines supporter and you do condone his actions.
If you are lukewarm towards the things of God, I pray you wake up.
Remember there are those that want us to post retractions so that someone not sure of events or just checking the blog sometimes will think all info is wrong.
Be wise.
Dear Upside down: Please check out my profile and read my story posted there. I am a victim's advocate. I have worked with this victim as well as other victims that have been hurt over the handling of this situation at Bellevue.
My record is very clear. Yes I am angry over the way this victim has been treated especially at the so-called "open" business meeting.
As for the "swallow and follow" comments, I stand by them. For far too long the Catholic Church membership has sufferd it. They sit there blindly and accept what is put forth from the pulpit as the truth, even when the leadership has been less than truthful.
It appears as if the "majority" of the members of Bellevue suffer from the same syndrome. You say you are not in the that group but where is your outrage over the handling of this matter? You say in the past he has made major blunders. Can you give me one Biblical reason he delayed in taking action? Can you give me one legal reason he delayed in taking action? Can you give an explanation why he denied this dear victim a meeting when he requested it? The list goes on adn on. If we do not stand on the Word of God, then what do we stand on?
When the majority hears things like "he did not know the job responsibilites of the minister or the infamous "uncharted waters" as reason for NOT taking action and there is no outrage from this majority, something is wrong. Seroiusly wrong. I expect more from a senior Pastor. Much more. This opinion is coming from one that was a member of this beloved church for over 20 years. In the past the membership I knew would not have stood for it nor its senior Pastor.
David Brown
David,
I do not support by your 'swallow and follow' comments, nor do many who post here.
For the record, I do not want Gaines to be pastor and I am not defending him. Frankly, as a father, such a crime is unimaginable and makes me sick to my stomach. Even though the minister came to him with his wife (the victim's own mother) and gave every appearance of peaceful resolution, it's beyond me how SG could even work alongside someone who'd do something like that, much less keep him on staff.
With that out of the way, I will point out there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Using Jesus as our example, judging down a group of people in the hope that they will turn to your side is the wrong way. Gaines will not step down, and you will not beat anyone into submission. Your attempt to do so only cements Gaines' position. If you continue to call the people at BBC godless, you will not do anyone any good.
I was at a circuit city, and the story came on the news about your 'attack' on the SBC. My wife and daughter started crying to see our church on TV like that. My 10 year old asked if we'd have any more picnics there. My 9 year old asked who that awful man was who was mad at us (it was you). Is that what you want?
I fully support what you are trying to do, and also the life-saving work you do with the victims, but not your words here.
I think your anger has gotten the best of you today. You might want to make sure it's that 'sinless' anger so many people here claim.
Excellent post, Solomon.
"When the majority hears things like "he did not know the job responsibilites of the minister or the infamous "uncharted waters" as reason for NOT taking action and there is no outrage from this majority, something is wrong. Seriously wrong. I expect more from a senior Pastor. Much more."
David,
Amen! Many KNOW those are worthless excuses. Those people are waiting for deacons or widows or others to speak out.
It is not safe to sit under the teaching or leadership of the Sr. Pastor. It is a fearful thing for the board of directors to profit from and cover for this willful sinfulness.
Solomon,
Have you seen the crying eyes of a child traumatized by rape?
No, what is happening at Bellevue is cause for outrage, period.
Solomon,
If you haven't explained to your children what has happened then you need to. They need to know that what happened was wrong. They need to know that the victim is never guilty. They need to know that they have someone to turn to that will support them if anything should ever happen to them. They need to know that a perpetrator of such activity will not be overlooked and that justice will be served. They need to know they are truly loved no matter what someone may do to them and that an act of this nature is never their fault.
This is not something to be weak about or to assume could never happen. Children need to know exactly why this crime makes many people angry. They need to know that any one that covers up a crime like this is guilty as well.
Gaines MAY never step down. You are probably very correct about that.
We are not responsible or in control of the end results.
That is also not an excuse to remain silent about our convictions or to not hate this horrible sin.
The victim and those working within the Roberts Rules guide lines were silenced at the bogus business meeting.
This is our forum to speak our convictions. If this forum is taken away,we will find another.
People who have endured abuse have resilience most will never know.
Dear Solomon: I respect your opinions. I agree some people may not like that phrase. But it fits. I have not attacked the SBC. Rather I am trying to bring about change from within.
I am asking them to take some actions that make it more difficult for these evil men to move about so freely. There have been several new stories in the national media the past two weeks where even more pedophile Baptist ministers have been exposed. Some are even pastors.
I am sorry but this is not a subject that people want to hear about but it so real for so many of us.
I do feel for you, your wife and you dear children. But you have to ask yourself who made you cry? It was not me rather it is the one that should have dealt with it properly the first time he heard about it. If he had taken action in June of 2006, you would not have heard from me. No I am not awful man as you characterize me, I am that man that is trying his best to protect our children and in my case my grandchilren.
When I become aware of abuse, I for one will not remain silent. I did that for over 35 years. I am sorry you feel I am hurting BBC or the SBC. I am not the vilian. The ones in leadership at both places are the ones to be held accountable.
I do not want see one more child harmed. I wish I could share with you the emails from victims that I have heard from. We are making a difference in their lives. Some have contacted me (this awful man) for the very first time to speak of their abuse. They have never told anyone before. They have told me how the handling of this issue has hurt them so much. Several of them are members of Bellevue.
I do wish you and your dear family the best but I am going to continue to speak out. Someone has too.
David Brown
Tim!
Thank you for speaking so strongly and not leaving it to just the "club members". This sin/crime is so black and white no one should see grey....especially pastor and leadership.
We are ALL to protect those that cannot protect themselves.
Never should this sin be covered or minimized.
Church should be a safe place. Leadership is responsible for obeying scipture and the law.
This shameful evil has been AFFIRMED by the Sr. Pastor of BBC.
Dear Solomon: Where did I ever say:
"If you continue to call the people at BBC godless, you will not do anyone any good."????
That is making an assumption and reference to something I have NEVER said. I would not ever dare to suggest that. There are many, many God fearing and God loving people at BBC. I do not know any godless ones.
Please show me where I have EVER used or said that. NOW, please?
Sorry but when people say things I have said that I did not, I want to understand why you said that.
I am waiting.
David Brown
Solomon,
Would you rather that we just remain silent on this issue?
Is it just too horrible for your sensibilities?
So sorry that TALKING about sexual childhood abuse is so offensive to you.
Would you have us just to remain silent, so that no one's child has to turn on the news and HEAR about childhood sexual abuse?????
If your child had been a victim, you would be singing a different tune.
If you think it's bad just to TALK about it, imagine how a child feels that it has actually happened to?
There ARE awful men out there but David Brown is not one of them.
Solomon,
Careful, you are about to get the
"Pursed lips and folded hands"
award for the day.
Sin is Sin. It has nothing to do with loving the sinner and everything to do with obedience of the Word. Our society has twisted things to the point that the victim is seen as the troublemaker instead of the perpetrator. Why is this? Maybe because all are forced to acknowledge their transgressions as well. What was done to a son by a father over a period of 18 months was horrific. The child could go no where safe. Home wasn't safe....church wasn't safe...those who were to protect him failed. And he's the one still being punished because folks don't want to deal with the real issue. The real issue is once sg knew; immediate steps should have been taken to protect everyone concerned. He failed. And he continues to fail because he can't admit he was wrong and correct as much as can be corrected.
This is not easy to talk to children about, and it doesn't have to be done graphically, but we are commissioned to "Train up a child in the way he should go" and that means a solid foundation on the Word of God, looking towards our Heavenly Father, not an earthly pastor.
jmho
"...immediate steps should have been taken to protect everyone concerned. He failed."
One tiny correction.... and I know we are all emotional about this horrible issue....
remember with this leadership you have to watch your words.....
immediate steps should have been taken to protect the victim/s and all possible victims....
(children, vulnerable or wounded people in or out of the congregation)
"everyone concerned" could mean the ones leadership DID protect...themselves and the predator.
Thank you Concerned
for your voice of conviction!!!
We acknowledge this sin/crime and donot give a place for cover up or rationalization by the leadership.
Even if SG did nothing else unwise,unscriptural or self serving...
This alone is enough.
This alone makes SG NOT scripturally qualified to be the Sr. Pastor of BBC.
gmommy said:
This alone makes SG NOT scripturally qualified to be the Sr. Pastor of BBC.
SOTL says:
Which is why he is hanging on to this job with white knuckles. NO other church is gonna touch him..he's damaged goods..
What does that say about the folks at BBC that still support him?
Sol,
Bill Clinton said he would never step down as well. The majority voted him in another term.
If you want to do your children good, explain to them the ugly consequences of sin.
Also, explain to them how it is unthinkable for a man to call himself a pastor and act like Steve Gaines does.
I am grateful for people like David Brown who don't wet their finger and stick it up in the air before thinking.
SOTL,
What does it say about leadership?
It says
willful sinfulness
willful stupidity
willful apathy
or all
of the above.
But we can use this forum to educate the ignorant.
gmommy: I stand corrected. You are exactly right.
Sorry SOTL,
To all who remain silent at BBC on this issue
they are willfully wrong.
If all the deacons,staff, teachers,moms,dads,choir members,youth,orchestra,lay leaders,missions minded,ushers....
all not profiting from this
leadership...
would stand together on this
ONE issue
we would send an apology out to the community
and the injured and broken hearted
and the weak who have been made to stumble
and the victims that have been silenced
and show Satan himself that he has not won this battle.
We DO understand sin and God's Word.
gmommylv,
willful sinfulness
willful stupidity
willful apathy
...change apathy to "sloth" and add a poem and you've got yourself a sermon! :)
Reminder....we are discussing this vile sin on this blog today because some sinful person treated this as a joke this morning.
gmommylv,
I hope you weren't thinking I ws making light of anything. I was agreeing with you; just using the alliterative methodology most folks at BBC would be familir with. But I know I could never hope to be as good at it as Pastor Rogers was.
How could anything funny be included?
We are discussing sexual abuse.
Nothing funny .
gmommy said:
To all who remain silent at BBC on this issue
they are willfully wrong.
sotl says:
Gmommy, and those very ones are the ones that cover their children's ears and point their finger at us and say, " HUSH, don't talk about such things around MY child"
They care NOT that other children are suffering becuase of THAT attitude.
They don't seem to care that children are being molested, raped,harmed...as long as they suffer in silence, so that their precious little darlings don't have to be concerned about it.
I have NEVER been so disgusted with a post as I have been wtih
"solomon" today.
I pray that his child never has to suffer the way that so many other children have. He seems that the worst thing that could EVER happen to his child is that they might HEAR about the sexual abuse of some unknown child. And to him, that is unacceptable.
No wonder the church is in the shape it is in.
Solomon said
I was at a circuit city, and the story came on the news about your 'attack' on the SBC. My wife and daughter started crying to see our church on TV like that. My 10 year old asked if we'd have any more picnics there. My 9 year old asked who that awful man was who was mad at us (it was you). Is that what you want?
I fully support what you are trying to do, and also the life-saving work you do with the victims, but not your words here.
I think your anger has gotten the best of you today. You might want to make sure it's that 'sinless' anger so many people here claim.
Piglet says:
I have cried, too. Our children are upset about leaving. We are distraught as a family - as your family is.
But, for heaven's sake, don't blame the victim in this case either - those speaking out!
When you are crying, blame this pastor and leadership who have brought all this shame on our church! Without these who have spoken out, things would just be getting worse - PW would still be on staff, and Gaines would be enjoying absolute power to follow His will instaed of God's word.
Dear Solomon: Where did I ever say:
"If you continue to call the people at BBC godless, you will not do anyone any good."????
I am still waiting if you are lurking. You will not get a free pass on that one. I demand an answer to where I have ever used that phrase or an apology.
David Brown
David Brown,
Are you still with SNAP? I noticed that you used to sign your posts indicating that but you haven't been lately. Just curious.
Anyone
Does it seem odd that in the last couple of days some have appealed to out emotions in order to justify excusing sin?
Memphis had a heartwarming story about his son at the passion play and now Solomon with his kids crying at Circuit City.
This is a liberal tactic even thought these folks probably don't consider themselves liberals.
You know, "Scripture aside, let's base our conclusions on our feelings."
This really bothers me coming from members of a church once grounded in the truth of God's word.
The truth is, ALL of our kids are victims of an apathetic, carnal leadership and pastor. WE WILL PAY FOR THEIR SIN. In fact, we have already started. All the MORE reason to DEMAND accountability!
We will pay MORE if we are silent!
David Brown
You have mail.
cakes, a lib with common sense? That's an oxymoron. Can't be. Better check your ideology meter again.
By the way...you have evolved from trollcates to lovecakes.
Sinister ministers? You sure do have a way with the words.
I just re-read Solomon's post
Let me get this right:
He is upset that his child is upset that she wonders if they will have anymore picnis there????????????????????
Children are being sodomized, raped, molested and HE"s worried that his little darling might not get to have a PICNIC????????????????????????????
Oh, to have such a life.
SOTL,
I understand your feelings of outrage.
It is so hard for those who have not experienced abuse to grasp the whole evil picture.
But I am so happy for those who have not experienced this.
So grateful for those who have not but want to open their hearts and minds and show compassion for the wounded.
It has been shown to me and to you and others.
Satan just hates that.
I have seen people here with a teachable ,sweet,spirit speak out more strongly as they learn and grow and their hearts are broken.
I have grown during this painful time. I won't be silent or weak or see myself as less than God sees me.
We grow thru suffering.
That suffering gave us the courage(with shaking legs and sick stomach)to stand against the sin that BBC has affirmed.
AND to be the Voice for those who have not found theirs yet.
Pretty cool.
God works EVERYTHING for good for those who love him!!
That how sweet and creative God is. Not us.
.
We must hate sin more than our entertainment,more than a building that holds precious memories for us,
Picnic...I'll tell you what is kinda sad. Because the church is basically under attack....we can't even consider publishing a church directory, a practice common at other churches. The leadership AND membership would be scared to death of how it would be used. Notice I said the membership too....because more than not are opposed to this blog and others.
Hey Yall
The bottom of my last post was suppose to be deleted. Didn't mean to make it part of the post..
BUT! It works!
gmommy: You've got mail.
SOTL said:
Children are being sodomized, raped, molested and HE"s worried that his little darling might not get to have a PICNIC????????????????????????????
Last I heard... it was one child... and yes, that is horrible... terrible... and that child's father deserves to be in jail. But now you are making it sound like it's just run of the mill at Bellevue to sodomize children. Let's not do that, OK?? Your sensationalism of the issue won't make Bro. Gaines erupt in a blinding flash of fire Sunday morning.
Perhaps a slightly more toned down, less shrill and snarky approach would do this board a world of good, and actually give it some credibility.
Except David Brown... having read his story... he's earned the right to be as vocal and outraged as he wants to be. And I think that there's on other person here who's earned it.
And please don't make the mistake of saying that we should sweep this under the rug or ignore it... because I'm certainly not doing that. I'm simply trying to say, as I suspect that Solomon was, that a little decorum goes a long way towards establishing credibility.
And woe to that twiddle-headed idiot that came on here earlier and impersonated the victim...
lovebbc,
your point???
LoveBBC: Question....when was BBC's last church directory published and distributed?
SOTL......
don't play....
Concerned,
None published in the 25 years I have been a member.
??????
..deflection....we all know the game....
Another liberal tactic is
DIVERSION
Interesting how the ruckus all came within seconds of my posting this very important revealing website that is a pastoral training site that counsels church growth leaders in how to DEAL WITH CONFLICT.
In case the ruckus made you overlook this ..here it is again..
IS THIS HOLY SPIRIT INSPIRED INSTRUCTION TO OUR NATIONS PASTORS ?
Dont miss this look at the mindset of the leadership training centers and their call to unswerving loyalty to a vision and open and rank manipulation being encouraged to all who might resist.
DEALING WITH CONFLICT ACCORDING TO THE CHANGE AGENT GURUS
and remember
ITS THE VISION THING
Well, that was well before my time. I am just saying, some of the reason that the inner circle/workings/records of the church aren't as available as most would like them to be is because quite frankly the church is under attack! That's the best way I know to say it.
This can't last forever. It has to come to a conclusion that BOTH "sides" can accept and move on. One side or the other has to finally say, "You win", and agree to move on in peace.
We can debate which "side" that should be...but there has to be a resolution someday. In the end, lost of people aren't going to get their way. I wonder if they can find it within themselves to call a truce and move on.
Springer,
FOR YOUR INFORMATION:
David Brown has spoken for the ENTIRE SBC and yes, there are MANY MANY MANY children being victimized in this manner by people in their churches.
One in 5 children are sexually abused. Look around the worship center at BBC. How many children do you see?
For you to think that ONLY one child has been victimized at BBC is outrageous!!! You are showing your ignorance on the subject.
The average pedophile has 117 victims.
Go and do some research before you hound me on this subject.
FURTHERMORE,
IT is OUTRAGEOUS that Solomon would be so concerned about his little darling's picnic.
It is a slap in the face to every child who has EVER been abused and he owes EVERY SINGLE ONE of them an apology for making such light of it.
lovebbc,
Who are you kidding? You are coming on here trying to make it appear that it is those who ask for truth, honesty, disclosure and transparency to be the fault/reason of a membership directory not being published.
You really do need to go back and research this forum and those that preceeded.
We can't even get a copy of the membership, AS REQUIRED BY THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE, when same is requested by members.
THEY!!know why we want a membership list.
THEY!!DO NOT WANT MEMBERS TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THEM AND ALL THE EVIL THEY HAVE DONE!!
The vast majority of the membership does not even have an inkling of what has transpired within BBC Leadership & Steve & Donna Gaines in the past 18 months.
I am just going to be blunt and say it's going to come down to two "sides"
1. Bro. Steve stays
2. Bro. Steve goes
If we're all real honest with ourselves, we fall into one of those two sides. There's not really much room for compromise.
Right now, I think it's an accurate statement that the "stays" crowd outnumbers the "goes" crowd. I don't know that it will always be that way, but that's where we are as of right now.
If it stays this way, at what point will the "goes" crowd finally surrender...because again, we can't go on like this.
If I am too blunt for some...I apologize. But, we can sum up everything about like that.
We do not have to establish credibility with you.
We have to be obedient to God.
The SR. Pastor of BBC and the leadership are the ones who have lost credibility.
I never had any in the sight of man.
We should fear God more than man.
Steve Gaines,
Do you believe the Bible to be inerrant?
If so, how can you let the sin of not telling the truth go on while standing behind the pulpit?
If not, then step down immediately.
LoveBBC: You are right...it does come down to two sides:
1. Obedience to the Word of God
2. Disobedience to the Word of God.
I will stand alone with my Savior rather than be in the multitudes without Him.
concerned,
WELL SAID!
lovebbc,
Every problem and struggle the Gaines family has "had to endure"
has been brought on by them, NO ONE ELSE.
Another thing, the victim would never have had to go thru all this public humilitation, had Steve Gaines acted properly in the first place.
Had Steve Gaines IMMEDIATELY discharged pw, the entire issue could have been handled in accordance with the law and the entire church body and entire world would not have been privy to this information.
So you see Steve Gaines, not only brought all of his problems on himself..BUT HE SINGLE HANDEDLY VICTIMIZED THE VICTIM ALL OVER AGAIN. Not only is this not under the blood, but the blood is on Steve Gaines hands.
lovebbc,
Why would you think any of us who want to save Bellevue from turning into a worldly church will ever go away.
I know of many who will not turn their back on righteousness if it takes 20 years.
The question you should be asking is why would Steve Gaines be so prideful to not voluntarily step down to save the church?
If he loved the church, he would leave on his own without someone having to tell him to go.
When the offerings get low enough, he will be asked to leave. Trust me. $$$ talks.
Piglet-STOP.
Stop right there. Stop with the Memphis tried a heart warmimg story as a liberal tactic.... you really want to know my tactic for my "heart warming" post the other day?
I though a group of self proclaimed Christians would be happy about two young precious children getting to participate in the Lord's Supper and a younger sibling asking real questions about Jesus and the resurection.
My post was not about excusing sin, it was not about tatcics and it had nothing to do with you or anyone else on this blog. In as much as people have been slamming BBC for weeks on here, I thought it would be great to hear how BBC is still touching young lives even in the middle of all this turmoil, but here you have to go and cheapen a great family moment in from of all your blog friends so you can seem like you have this all figured out. Why must you try and take the joy of something? The first thing said after my original post was "what did you think of the business meeting?" You could not even be happy that my son had been saved and the other was inquiring about Jesus.
And you say I am the one using tactics?
I admit I was/am very angry when I read your post claiming my "liberal tactics" and the "Scripture aside, let's base our conclusions on our feelings." comments. I am not trying to convince you or anybody to mutiny to any side. I also hope you can read some posts for what they are.
MEMPHIS
Sweet blog friends,
Someone else respond to the childish,worldly post.
We have been discussing heavy matters of sin and disobedience today.....promted by an ignorant post by the same.......
I am passing the baton for now...thank you!...or pass by all together......
concernedbbcer-
You are certainly entitled to your convictions. You are characterizing the "stay" crowd as disobedient, and the "goes" crowd as obedient...to the scriptures. Is that what you intended to imply? Correct me if I misrepresent you there.
As I said, at what point do you and others who share that conviction say okay....Bro. Steve is and will be the pastor of Bellevue for an indefinite period of time. I don't like that, and I can not be the church member God wants me to be because I cannot accept the leadership's authority over me. So, I will go find a church where I can accept and submit to the leadership....and wish those remaining at BBC, and the leadership, the best.
LoveBBC said...
If it stays this way, at what point will the "goes" crowd finally surrender...because again, we can't go on like this.
Sheepless says,
"Surrender"?? NEVER!! WHEN IT IS AGAINST THE WORD AND WILL OF GOD.
pepper said...
lovebbc,
Just curious as to why you left Broadway to become a member at Bellevue?
7:56 PM, April 02, 2007
I say,
My guess would be something concerning the lack of accountability regarding a certain associate pastor.
11:50 PM, April 02, 2007
memphis,
I'm glad to see you care about your own children and not the children of others.
There are many children who have been hurt deeply by Steve Gaines. If you don't beleive me, ask the children of many former staff members who were treated like trash by Steve Gaines and company.
Ask the children of 1,000's who have had to leave the only church they ever knew because of the actions of Steve Gaines.
Do you always only think of yourself and your own family? Many are hurting as a result of Steve Gaines. Those hurting are on both sides of the issues but one thing in common is that Steve Gaines is in the middle of it.
If Steve Gaines loved the church, he would voluntarily step down.
Wow....you did it before I asked !!!!
Concerned......stated well!!
aslansown...can you elaborate on your question concerning Broadway...I am unaware of the issue you speak of....at least from the information you provided.
I left Broadway for Bellevue because of the abundant opportunities for me to grow and serve the Lord at a bigger church. There was nothing negative towards Broadway involved in that decision. It was the Lord's leading in my life
Dear Brother Watchman,
I am so left of Howard Zinn, so I know I may not be compelling here, but diversion is not owned by liberals or by any particular group in the political or social spectrum.
There is common form of rhetoric that reasons:
a)Here is an example of a conservative doing x.
b)X is dispicable, tresonous, sinful, etc.
c)Thus, conservatives are dispicable, tresonous, sinful, etc.
It is inherently falacious and naive. Even if you may argue that more liberals engage in diversion than conservatives, the predicate, "another liberal tactic," still falls on its face.
This liberal's tactic is to meet all comers with intellectual honesty and the greatest regard for sound rhetoric, the most civil form of conflict resolution ever invented.
Otherwise, we could only scratch, bite and punch at one another. And I'm a lover, not a fighter.
Bad rhetoric is no ones particular domain.
Ima has been strangely quiet today but many comments made on this blog today go back to the watered-down, surface teaching that has been taking place in our churches. If adults can not (or will not) look at the big picture in light of scripture and obedience, there is a huge problem. For an adult to say "we can't have a directory because it might be used to hurt the pastor".....well, I just can't understand that. The pastor has consistently made poor decisions that a man of his experience and calling should not have made. It's all in the Bible....every answer sg has needed to make wise decisions and to lead the sheep in safety. He has chosen not to. The thing is.....we DON'T KNOW if PW had other victims. It sometimes takes victims decades to surface. BBC has been placed in a horrible position due to SG's bad judgment. (And for those of you that have heard this before, I'm sorry. It seems as if we have some new members that refuse to catch up on issues already discussed.)With regards to wanting church to be about picnics and plays, church is about worship. We worship our Father and our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. He demands reverence, integrity, and holiness of his believers. Is that at BBC now?
lovebbc,
who is the church under attack from? who is the enemy of the church?
concerned wrote:
LoveBBC: You are right...it does come down to two sides:
1. Obedience to the Word of God
2. Disobedience to the Word of God.
I will stand alone with my Savior rather than be in the multitudes without Him. "
Thanks, concerned, you beat me to it. lovebbc doesn't get it. If the shepherd does not obey the truth of the Word, why do we expect his sheep to? How can one call a 'truce' to ignoring the Word? I will never understand that one.
nathanb, when my post went up, the topic was not back on PW and the children of BBC, so please do not try and lay the "I only care about my children load on me." My post was not about SG or the fence jumping or about anything anyone could possibly argue about, yet it has been turned into a Liberal tactic???
lovebbc
Didn't you say yesterday that you were not the person who had left Broadway?
SOTL- I don't mean this disrespectfully....there are scores of former Broadway members at Bellevue, and a few have moved the other direction.
I don't think I am the person you are referring to.
Broadway happens to be a church plant of Bellevue under Dr. Lee back early in his ministry. There's been a strong relationship between the churches over these many years.
At 3:55 PM, April 03, 2007
LoveBBC said...
As I said, at what point do you and others who share that conviction say okay....Bro. Steve is and will be the pastor of Bellevue for an indefinite period of time. I don't like that, and I can not be the church member God wants me to be because I cannot accept the leadership's authority over me. So, I will go find a church where I can accept and submit to the leadership....and wish those remaining at BBC, and the leadership, the best.
junk99mail says ...
I think I understand where you are coming from on this, and to a degree, I can agree ... at some point each person has to decide if and when God would have them leave and worship and serve elswewhere. Many here have already made that choice, but this doesn't mean they don't still care about BBC or that because they are no longer members they are wrong to speak out about the problems and sins they have seen and still see (so long as it is done in a respectful way, which we can all admit is not always the case).
But something that concerns me is the idea that a church member should submit to the authority of a pastor or leader when that person believes that the leadership is not living or acting in accordance with God's will. God's word makes it plain that any authority is granted only by God, and that authority is valid only so long as it is in keeping with the truths and commands of Scripture. God no where expects or demands that a believer obey an autority when that authority is asking or demanding something that is contrary to God's Word. Perhaps you do not feel that you are being asked to do anything wrong by the leaders of BBC ... but many here feel differently.
There're here......................
OFG
DO you really think that they must be molested ON THE GROUNDS of bbc to make it " official"?
ON any given Sunday, in the worship center, one in 5 children are being molested by SOMEONE!!!
These children have more to worry about than whether or not they are going to get to go on a picnic.
I did not say that they were being molested by someone at BBC.
If you knew the stats on this subject, you would not have posted such an ignorant statement.
OFG: PUHLEEZE. That was taken out of context and you know it. SOTL was referring to molested kids in general, not on church grounds. She quoted the statistic that 1 in 5 children are molested so to look at the number of children at BBC and be aware that there are children there it is happening to. Nothing was said about on church grounds. Try again. Or better yet, go out and throw a baseball around with your child and enjoy a beautiful day. :)
ofg,
Haven't you been banned from this blog? What are you still doing here?
I guess that you don't believe in obeying the rules anymore than your pastor does.
Junk: excellent post. Thanks.
solomon wrote:
"My 10 year old asked if we'd have any more picnics there. My 9 year old asked who that awful man was who was mad at us (it was you)."
I'm not "attacking" your dear child in any way, but is that what most concerned your 10-year-old? Picnics? Seems to me you'd be more concerned with whether or not your children had been put in harm's way for 6 months while our pastor let a confessed child molester freely roam the halls of the church.
And you need to inform your 9-year-old that the messenger isn't an "awful man." I pray neither of your precious children ever encounters a real "awful man" and ends up in need of the type of support that David Brown is striving to provide to these victims.
It's a shame your wife was also brought to tears, but I would hope that it was because of the embarrassment this minister and our pastor brought upon our church by their actions and lack of action, respectively. Somehow I don't think that's what you meant though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression she was upset that anyone dared to expose the fact that a confessed pedophile had been left on the staff of BBC for six months. If someone hadn't exposed it, he'd still be there, thanks to his own silence and that of Steve Gaines.
The world is not a safe place, and the world has infiltrated our churches. In fact, it's always been there. It's just that we live in an information age where we're more aware of it. Wake up and smell the coffee and if you haven't already, please educate your children for their own good. As someone said, you don't have to give them graphic details, but they are old enough to know what they should do if ever confronted with such an unspeakable situation.
lovebbc said
If it stays this way, at what point will the "goes" crowd finally surrender...because again, we can't go on like this.
Piglet says:
Unfortunately it is not Steve who's going. Just as planned, it is those who are discerning enough to see through him who are going...and in droves, I might add.
More are leaving after this teaching term is up. Can you hear the leadership clapping?
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