Two petitions concerning the leadership at Bellevue are now online.
The first is the Postpone the Ordination of David Coombs petition which many of you have already signed. The ordination is scheduled for this Sunday, February 25th, so don't delay.
The second is entitled Should They Go?.
Please stop by and sign both petitions if you haven't already.
Carol Pemberton has written another fine letter regarding the situation at Bellevue.
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658 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 658 Newer› Newest»"I was merely asking you why you only question her trip."
In a word: context--refer to my 5:32pm comment.
We know what you're up to.
How could any ordination council not have reservations about laying hands on a candidate when opposed by so many church members?
How could they lay hands on him in good conscience without allowing all of the objections to be dealt with fully?
Will those who lay hands on him actually be ministers that he has authority over?
If so, will they be able to be objective?
Will they be intimidated into falling in line with their "rubber stamp"?
God give us ministers with the courage of conviction!
Ask questions!!
Move to table the ordination rather than vote after he is questioned.
[Sample motion: Since there are matters that have not been dealt with with regard to this candidate for ordination that are causing division in the body at BBC, I move to table this ordination until these matters are fully dealt with and BBC is in one accord. At that time let us reconvene as a council and consider this candidate for ordination].
If a move to table fails or does not occur and the vote is not unanimous, then do not participate in the laying on of hands.
Pray for strength to do the right thing.
imo
iwant2know said: Let's get back to Donna Gaines mission trip.
Who approves Bellevue paying for the cost of her speaking trip to Africa?
REPLY: So now you are against Donna Gaines going and speaking on Mission Trips??
4545,
No, actually you've compared the "crap" you get in your mailbox every day from people and organizations who never ask you for your information but have it anyhow to your fellow Christians and church members who just want to mail a letter concerning issues at BBC.
Anyone believe 4545's name is on my petition? I've always suspected he and hisserpant were Steve Tucker.
Sign if you think they should go
About the request for information to send CRAP to people's homes...I would urge Tim and the others to forgo the names if the church began turning over all other requested information. There is no possible violation of 4545's personal "rights" if BBC financial data were to be released.
Sign if you think they should go
Hey bully,
Go away--you'd be a hit over at the Bratton Report and he could use the hits--haha.
In your compassionate words, "leave us alone."
Ok,
here it comes:
Why, I never...ever...EVER!
You can twist and spin it anyway you choose. The FACTS are, you know MOST of the people that you would send your CRAP to, does not want it. That means you are going against our wishes on purpose.
Would the junk mail you want to send be any different that the hate filled stuff on this blog? If not, it would be worse than the junk mail I already receive on a daily basis. Much worse.
"Would the junk mail you want to send be any different that the hate filled stuff on this blog?"
You are the very essence of the pot calling the kettle black.
Ha!
Man, I love poaching hypocrites.
Amos: "My earnest hope is that in times such as these, that the Lord would be pleased to raise up Christ honoring heralds; Godly men who seek no honor or reputation for themselves, men who would gladly deny themselves the temporal things of this world, men who would give up all to be able to preach the gospel of Christ, rather than do it for this world’s gold, making merchandise of the gospel; men of meekness and humility who would serve the least(in this world’s eyes) of His sheep; men of wisdom and courage, those who will rightfully divide the word of truth without fear of reprisal; men of integrity, who seek to honor Him who is Truth, who desire the smile and approval of Christ above the praises of men; men of allegiance, not unto man, but those who will commit themselves solely to exalting the name of Christ and the proclamation of His gospel, according to the Holy Writ itself, and not the promotion of self, any individual church, or denomination(he who is faithful in exalting Christ will find it unnecessary)"
Yes, yes, I pray for this. Amos, what a beautiful comment. Lin
4545 said...
No, what is astounding is that you and others think that you should have the right to OUR personal information in order to send CRAP to our homes that is against our pastor and our church.
How long are you and others going to continue this stuff? Why not find a church you and your family can serve in and leave us alone??
Many of you are consumed by this and have been for MONTHS! I guess you will tell me that is a good thing?
7:32 PM, February 24, 2007
SHEEPLESSATBBC said:
4545,
Please tell me it has been a bad joke that you are only being referred to as a deacon and that you are truly NOT a deacon of Bellevue Baptist Church and speak in the verbage you are using. If you ARE a deacon, we are in worse shape than imagined.
You know full well no one is wanting to send any member information other than the facts and the truth. What is it about the truth that concerns you?
Why are you and David Coombs honing in on the request for the membership information..it's because you can play on the emotions of members...oh, I don't want just anyone having my name and address, oh, someone might send me something in the mail, oh, someone might know who I am, a fellow member of Bellevue might know I'm a member of Bellevue. THAT DOG DON'T HUNT!!!
Requests were made for many other documents which are required by Tn State Law(to be provided to any member that asks for them)ie, financial information, meeting minutes, by-laws and ammendments, and church business meetings have been requested and refused.
You've been on this blog long enough that you know all the reasons, all the answers, all the lies, all the requests that have been made, you really know as much as any one else here knows.
It seems you have surfaced here tonite for the sole purpose of disruption and creating more anxiety, you will NOT WEAR US DOWN!! WE HAVE ONLY JUST BEGUN..SO GET USED TO IT!!!
We have found a church that we love and for many on this blog, it has been our church home for 25,30,40,50 or more years so don't expect us to leave any time soon.
This attempt at a CORPORATE HOSTILE TAKE-OVER is not going to succeed. The majority of BBC members do not have a clue what is really going on behind the scenes, but they are learning the truth and waking up to the reality of the lies and cover-ups.
You ask, How long are we going to continue this stuff...UNTIL WE GET RESOLUTION..IS THAT LONG ENOUGH FOR YOU???!!!!
TO EVERYONE ELSE:::
TO EVERYONE ELSE:
FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS
They are trying to distract us from important business at hand coming tomorrow night.
Be there tomorrow night, let your voice be heard!! They are afraid.
You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." Matthew 20: 20-28
A recent post said ...
Would the junk mail you want to send be any different that the hate filled stuff on this blog?
junk99mail says ...
All this bad mouthing of junk mail is giving me a complex!!
"There are elders who think themselves clothed or invested with all authority. They do not regard the wishes of the congregation, but impose their own dictatorial authority of the church. They never attempt to get the wishes of the church; and when the wishes are known, they do as they please. They 'boss' the affairs of the church. They usurp the authority from Christ, and are dictators over the church."
H. Leo Boles, Gospel Advocate, Feb. 2, 1944
sheepless wrote:
"4545,
"Please tell me it has been a bad joke that you are only being referred to as a deacon and that you are truly NOT a deacon of Bellevue Baptist Church and speak in the verbage you are using. If you ARE a deacon, we are in worse shape than imagined."
I'm convinced he is. He won't deny being a deacon. He's denied being on staff or related to anyone on staff as well as several people who were mentioned by name, but he steadfastly refuses to deny he's a deacon. It really doesn't matter to me which deacon he is, but if he indeed is one, you are correct. It's so... sad.
Welcome back, Mr. Deacon, and thank you for contributing to the cause!
junk99mail,
You're one junk mail I'm glad to see.
How could any ordination council not have reservations about laying hands on a candidate when opposed by so many church members?
How could they lay hands on him in good conscience without allowing all of the objections to be dealt with fully?
Will those who lay hands on him actually be ministers that he has authority over?
If so, will they be able to be objective?
Will they be intimidated into falling in line with their "rubber stamp"?
God give us ministers with the courage of conviction!
Ask questions!!
Move to table the ordination rather than vote after he is questioned.
[Sample motion: Since there are matters that have not been dealt with with regard to this candidate for ordination that are causing division in the body at BBC, I move to table this ordination until these matters are fully dealt with and BBC is in one accord. At that time let us reconvene as a council and consider this candidate for ordination].
If a move to table fails or does not occur and the vote is not unanimous, then do not participate in the laying on of hands.
Pray for strength to do the right thing.
imo
ilovebbc,
Re your questions about why folks are asking about Donna Gaines upcoming trip (some said to Africa, some India, I don't know) ... see my post of 3:08 PM, February 23, 2007.
Be blessed,
junk99mail
4545, You are hurting my heart. You say we need to go to another church to serve. You can't imagine how much we love this church. We have served in almost any area that you can name. My children have faithfully served since they were old enough. Their childhood memories are full of Bellevue.
When I walk the halls of my precious church I know that my life will always be touched by what I learned and the things I did here. I would not just walk away from anything that is worth taking a stand for. We know what it may cost us to stand for truth and integrity but it is a price we are willing to pay.
Trollcakes,
Without elucidation and with great pedantry, I respond to your previous post directed towards myself, sir, thusly and like so:
Thanks!
The petition has passed 400.
At 7:46 PM, February 24, 2007
ydoesit matter said...
Anyone believe 4545's name is on my petition? I've always suspected he and hisserpant were Steve Tucker.
junk99mail replies...
I don't know Steve Tucker, but I would like to know if anyone here really does know him, either those supportive of Steve Gaines or those who are not. I've seen more than one critical reference to the man, and it comes as a surprise to me. I never got a chance to know him in my short time (several years ago) as a Bellevue member, but I have friends who consider him to be a very devoted follower of the Lord and a gracious servant. I'm not interested in hearing opinions derived from limited exposure to him in public settings, but I would like to hear from anyone who actually knows him...has been in his home, eaten with him, served along side him, that sort of thing.
P.S. If even a small portion of the things I've heard about Steve from those who know and love him are true, there is no way 4545 could be the same man.
junk99mail
Did you happen to be in the last Communications Committee meeting when he was SO INCREDIBLY OBNOXIOUS? The man in that meeting COULD be 4545.
Does anybody know if Steve Tucker is related to Sonny Tucker?
So you are now going to attack me for using the word "crap"?? Are you claiming the word "crap" is a "curse" word or a "bad" word?
4545 said...
So you are now going to attack me for using the word "crap"?? Are you claiming the word "crap" is a "curse" word or a "bad" word?
8:55 PM, February 24, 2007
Sheepless says,
You don't know?....PITY
So, what time is the production tomorrow night?
If the word Crap offended anyone, I am sorry.
6:00..Be there!! and wear your glasses, the big ones, so we'll recognize you.
At 8:53 PM, February 24, 2007
Piglet said...
Did you happen to be in the last Communications Committee meeting ...
junk99mail replies...
No, I haven't been a member of Bellevue since 1999. (And that was soooo "last century"!) But I do still care about what goes on there, and at the new neighbors' place across the street.
I'm just curious to hear from anyone who knows him from more than a public setting or event.
From "Deep Thoughts":
"Laurie got offended that I used the word 'puke.' But to me, that's what her dinner tasted like."
:0
Piglet,
Who was that man in the communications meeting?
Do you know if Steve Tucker is related to Sonny Tucker?
This person is ( might be?) a deacon and does not know that the word XXXX is a bad word?
Wonder if he ever heard DR. R. use it from behind the pulpit or in his personal life? I seriously doubt it. Dr. R. did not even believe in what he referred to as " second hand cussing"..do ya'll remember that? Words like "shoot" and " darn" and " dang" and "gosh"
I can remember my grandfather telling me a long time ago that one time he used the phrase " doggonit" and that his daddy whipped him good. I never understood why until I heard Dr. R. talk about " second hand cussing".
Pity, indeed!
sheepless,
I'm inclined to think that the answer to that question is no.
"So you are now going to attack me for using the word "crap"?? Are you claiming the word "crap" is a "curse" word or a "bad" word?"
I am a grown woman and no way would I have uttered that word in front of my mom or any of my aunts. The world would have stopped.
Just curious: I recall someone mentioning that 4545 was a Bible Study Fellowship Teacher. Is that true, 4545?
sheepless
I was referring to Steve Tucker who was making faces in the Communications Committee meeting.
At the end he interrupted someone and stepped to the microphone to say "I'VE got to go teach the BIBLE."He acted like he was disgsted with everyone and didn't mind it showing. That's why I say that man could be 4545 because of the behaviour I saw that day.
Don't think Sonny is related to him.
SOTL,
Good, I hope not. I would be disappointed to find 4545 is Steve Tucker and that Steve & Sonny were related.
It would break my heart if 4545 were one of the leaders in our church, especially Steve Tucker, who is the chairman of our missions committee. All I know is that we don't allow that kind of language in our home. I also am broken-hearted that our leadership cares so little about those of us who just want answers to questions any member should be able to get, yet all we get is "none of your business" and "if you don't like it, you can leave."
How could any ordination council not have reservations about laying hands on a candidate when opposed by so many church members?
How could they lay hands on him in good conscience without allowing all of the objections to be dealt with fully?
Will those who lay hands on him actually be ministers that he has authority over?
If so, will they be able to be objective?
Will they be intimidated into falling in line with their "rubber stamp"?
God give us ministers with the courage of conviction!
Ask questions!!
Move to table the ordination rather than vote after he is questioned.
[Sample motion: Since there are matters that have not been dealt with with regard to this candidate for ordination that are causing division in the body at BBC, I move to table this ordination until these matters are fully dealt with and BBC is in one accord. At that time let us reconvene as a council and consider this candidate for ordination].
If a move to table fails or does not occur and the vote is not unanimous, then do not participate in the laying on of hands.
Pray for strength to do the right thing.
imo
sheep,
I do not know whether or not 4545 is Steve Tucker.
All I know is that I don't THINK that sonny and Steve are related.
I have on occasion many conversations with Sonny, because he played football at my alma mater ( years ago :) ) at USM and we talked about that part of the country, and he never mentioned that Steve was his son.
That doesn't mean he's not..alls I am saying is that I just didn't get that impression.
They are not related.
junk99
Your deep thought made me laugh so hard! I looooove Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy.
Padroc,
Thank you for a beautiful and compassionate word.
Lord Jesus, forgive us our sins and protect your flock.
Good night all.
4545
More important than your use of the C word is that you come here "astounded" by others wanting to go against your wishes by having your personal information...name and address.....given out so you won't get mail that you can throw in the garbage if you choose. And just so you know that would NOT be breaking the law.
I am personally astounded that my personal information...much more than my name and address ..and certainly against MY wishes....was open and exposed to people at BBC who had NO rights to my CONFIDENTIAL information and this act was AGAINST THE LAW!!! But both are small compared to the pastor and leaders at BBC not being "astounded" by the sin of sexual abuse and allowing that minister/ predator the right to roam freely under THEIR protection of secrecy and "tightness" ....now that is something I am astounded by!
For the second time, if the word Crap offended anyone, I am sorry. I do not ever curse or use bad words.
4545 said...
For the second time, if the word XXXX offended anyone, I am sorry. I do not ever curse or use bad words.
9:43 PM, February 24, 2007
Sheepless said,
You just don't get it, do you?
And which Bible Fellowship Class do you teach?
At 9:25 PM, February 24, 2007
socwork said...
Your deep thought made me laugh so hard!
junk99mail replies...
I'm glad ... I was concerned that it might also offend some. But it appears that irony (that someone would say something offensive and not realize just what the offense was) was lost on 4545. Even more ironic is his continued use of the word in the apology. It's like poking someone in the eye and when they say "ouch" poking it again and saying, "I'm sorry it hurts you when I do this."
4545,
I don't mean to be mean to you, but it's hard to conceive that anyone wouldn't know better than to use the offending word in the apology for using it!
I was saddened to see the outline posted by Bellevue Baptist Church that Steve Gaines is going to use for tomorrow evening’s service to ordain David Coombs.
First of all, I must say I do not believe David Coombs should be ordained tomorrow evening for a long list of reasons, most of them already listed at one point or another on this blog.
A question I think needs to be asked is this. “Is it blasphemy for a man to use the Word of God out of context for self serving reasons”? I believe it is and it’s going to be another dangerous step by Steve Gaines and Bellevue towards destruction if he does this tomorrow evening.
We have seen our pastor and certain leaders these past 18 months at Bellevue Baptist Church, lie, trespass, intimidate, slander, harbor an admitted pedophile on staff, misuse God’s money, fleece the sheep, pay certain salaries an exorbitant amount of money, break the law, hire staff without the knowledge of the congregation, make fun of the membership from the pulpit of other churches, refuse to let the membership know how the church is spending their money, and much more. The worst thing we have seen is our pastor, Steve Gaines use the pulpit and the Word out of context for self serving reasons.
I plead with you Steve Gaines if you are reading this, to not ordain David Coombs tomorrow night and don’t preach a self serving message from the outline that was made available online at Bellevue.org.
We can all agree that unity is something we all long for but it starts at the top. As senior pastor, you need to do everything in your power to bring unity to Bellevue.
You could start by postponing tomorrow evening's ordination that should not happen given the ourpouring of the membership against ordination at this time.
After that decision, it could be followed by fully confessing all that has happened pertaining to being a pastor before you arrived at Bellevue and while you have been here for the past 18 months.
Being forthright and transparent is the only road that will lead to Bellevue's healing. If this doesn't happen, the days ahead are going to continue to grow darker.
God is not going to honor a church that refused to honor Truth. Secrecy inside the church will stifle the Holy Spirit as we've seen already.
I pray that tomorrow will bring a new day at Bellevue. Don't listen to the men who have surrounded you since you have arrived. Listen to the Holy Spirit lead you to do the right thing. Don't let pride keep you from doing the right thing. Don't worry about what you may loose by being transparent, think about what God will do in your life if you let go of the things you are holding onto.
I will not post again tonight but will spend the rest of the evening in prayer for you and Bellevue Baptist Church tonight.
I beleive tomorrow is the most critical day of the life of Bellevue since you have arrived.
Please listen to the Holy Spirit and don't be afraid.
We are praying for you tonight pastor.
OK, here goes again, if you're tired of this just skip on by, but you might find it helpful to sleep tonite.
**Want a blessing anyone?? Check out savingbellevue.com **, click on
Keep Our Eyes on Our Savior "JESUS"
The message is in the horses, watch carefully at the end where a few of the older horses drop into the water and swim..there is a younger one that is not tall enough to walk on thru the water..then a couple behind him also drop into the water and swim. All the older horses are perfectly capable of making it thru without swimming but they are guiding the little guy. I'm not describing it well, but you'll get it when you watch.
Can't help it...I just love this!!
Does anybody like this as much as I do??
Good night all..really this time.
Proverbs 4:24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.
Proverbs 6:12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
Proverbs 15:2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.
Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.
truth or lie,
Your post was awesome!! This is the way that we should be looking at this.
I will join you in praying for Steve Gaines.
Pastor Gaines, are you listening? Please, do the right thing! Don't worry about what man can do to you. God will honor you for your obedience.
I am praying for you like I have never prayed for you before!!!
Much better, 4545! :)
Not that you need my approval; I'm not anyone for you to be concerned about. But I do appreciate your trying to make things right in the right way.
As to what others have said--I think their original intent was a bit different than yours. But I get your point.
Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.
Proverbs 15:18 A wrathful man stirreth up strife: but he that is slow to anger appeaseth strife.
Proverbs 17:14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.
Proverbs 17:19 He loveth transgression that loveth strife: and he that exalteth his gate seeketh destruction.
Proverbs 18:6 A fool’s lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.
Proverbs 22:10 Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.
Proverbs 26:17 He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.
Proverbs 26:21 As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife.
Proverbs 28:25 He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.
Proverbs 29:22 An angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man aboundeth in transgression.
"bob barker"
Let me quote you:
" I know EXACTLY who you are"
2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
James 1:19 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
SOTL,
As one who has been moved by your posts, please let me ask of you to call to mind the words of Charlie Hicks, and implore you not to get sucked any further into the current exchange with "mr. barker". Ain't worth it.
Be blessed,
junk99mail
junk
You are right. Forgive me for a temporary lapse of sanity.
:)
sotl,
Ditto to junk99mail.
Praying with you,
Hope
Ephesians 4:17 ¶ This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Mr. Barker,
Are you a follower of Jesus? Do you love Him? Do you love His people? Are you willing to follow His will for your life right this minute and stop calling SOTL names? For His sake? Please? I know you may think you are right, but that doesn't make what you are doing the right thing to do.
iwant2know said...
MJM,
Donna Gaines is not on staff at BBC, at least I don't think so.
I believe her husband makes as much as the President Of the United States.
Soooo, why is BBC paying for her speaking trip to Africa later this year??
By the way Donna or her company "Hope for the Future" will receive income from this trip.
Please show me where this is a written policy , that all, iwant2know??
By the way, these are facts that I'm telling you.
11:02 PM, February 24, 2007
God is good....
all the time!
iwant2know,
Donna is not on the BBC staff. I took JMO's advice and called the church offices Friday and asked.
Hey Amos,
I am just curious so don't break your silence if you don't want to but didn't you post a while back that you were in Louisianna(SP??) or somewhere near there...are did I dream that.... since most of us don't know each other,I tend to see a "picture" of people after they post a while.....this is for you to chuckle ...I see you as a monk that has taken a vow of silence and has the whole Bible memorized and you quote all the scriptures from memory as they apply......just a late night silly to break the seriousness for a moment.
If, based on my own limited perceptions, I called someone a jerk, whether or not they were, I would still be calling them a name. But I wouldn't do that, even if I was certain that person was very much a jerk. :)
And with that, I will take my own advice to SOTL and disengage from this particular convo....
Anybody know what happened to Charlie??
How could any ordination council not have reservations about laying hands on a candidate when opposed by so many church members?
How could they lay hands on him in good conscience without allowing all of the objections to be dealt with fully?
Will those who lay hands on him actually be ministers that he has authority over?
If so, will they be able to be objective?
Will they be intimidated into falling in line with their "rubber stamp"?
God give us ministers with the courage of conviction!
Ask questions!!
Move to table the ordination rather than vote after he is questioned.
[Sample motion: Since there are matters that have not been dealt with with regard to this candidate for ordination that are causing division in the body at BBC, I move to table this ordination until these matters are fully dealt with and BBC is in one accord. At that time let us reconvene as a council and consider this candidate for ordination].
If a move to table fails or does not occur and the vote is not unanimous, then do not participate in the laying on of hands.
Pray for strength to do the right thing.
imo
Gossiping granny?
LOL!!!
I don't even have gray hair yet!!! HOw can i be a granny????
Just yesterday, I was a teenager, and now i'm a granny. Time flies when you are having fun!
I can hardly wait to become a granny. But since I have no married children, I'm gonna have to wait on that one.
(amos breaks silence for gmommylv)
La.- yes
monk- no, but am a servant
vow of silence- in here (most of time; commented at 4:00 pm)
bible memorized- not quite-good memory and good software
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Proverbs 10:19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.
Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
Proverbs 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
blessings,
Amos
junk99mail said...
iwant2know,
Donna is not on the BBC staff. I took JMO's advice and called the church offices Friday and asked.
11:15 PM, February
junk99mail,
I hope you didn't think I was serious...about Donna being on staff.
The question no one seems to be able to answer is this. Where is this policy written,signed and dated, iwant2know.....
Everybody,
Cut it out, or comment moderation is going on!
We finished discussing that subject several threads ago.
NBBCOF
Thanks Amos...I didn't think you were REALLY a monk just who I see when you speak so wisely. I grew up close enough to the border that for all big HS events,we drove in groups together to get the "great food" in La....random... but weary of all the constant anxiety...
gmommy
' close to the border of LA"
Do you mind if i ask where?
I did the same thing! When I was in college, in Hattiesburg, MS, we would drive down to N.O. all the time, and also down to the gulfcoast.
iwant2know,
I think you the questions you are asking are good and reasonable.
I personally wouldn't have a problem with a church funding a missions or other ministry trip of a member--they do it all the time. But special care should be taken when dealing with family members of paid staff. And policies should be published, clear, and not biased in favor of certain groups within the membership. These things, along with many of the issues raised on this blog, are basic and should not even need to be asked. BBC has been around, and has been a large church, for a long time, so one would think all these things would have been thoroughly documented and open to the membership for review for decades.
NASS,
Things have been amazingly smooth and civil here for a good streak now ... guess you couldn't count on it lasting foever. Hope I wasn't inadvertantly contributing to your headaches as moderator.
Booby...that's why my screen name is G mommy....that is a proud title ,honey...and my son said he had no idea you had so many issues when yall were in the same crowd...he said some other things too.... very protective that kid of mine.
Proverbs 3:24 When thou liest down, thou shalt not be afraid: yea, thou shalt lie down, and thy sleep shall be sweet.
Psalms 4:8 I will both lay me down in peace, and sleep: for thou, LORD, only makest me dwell in safety.
offline
gmommy
Would you email me? You can get my email addy from NASS.
junkmail99,
I agree with your last post. But I cannot find this in our bylaws, or where the church has ever approved this type of policy. Surely with thousands going out on a trip to Africa the church should approve the trip. Donna is receiving income from that trip. It is not up to me or you or up for an opinion. It's not how do we feel about it. This is why we need good church policies that the congeration can approve.
Now, I'm off to bed....as I need a good seat in the morning...
junk wrote:
"Things have been amazingly smooth and civil here for a good streak now ... guess you couldn't count on it lasting foever. Hope I wasn't inadvertantly contributing to your headaches as moderator."
You're right. Things have been pretty smooth lately, and I'd like to thank everyone for their cooperation in that. You're not contributing to the headaches tonight. It's that unfortunate subject matter that came up. Let's not go there ever again!
Thanks,
NBBCOF
Hey sorry...my fault!! I will email SOTL...I was writing her on the blog and it went away then i saw I had her email on my email ..so thanks!Now I can tell her some really juicy granny stuff!!!
gmommy!!!
LOLOLOLOL!!!!
gmommy,
I should have said that i am but a "granny wannabe".
LOL!
:)
SOTL & gmommy,
This is the mental image I have of both of you!
new bbc manager madam...watch out....I will run over you with my little walker!!!Remember...we are a little crazy!!!LOL
Now the second one is really a hoot!!!!! Funny,that is how my son sees me....I have always been so old to him....my daughter still sees me as glamourous...I'm not ,she just loves me!!!!
nass,
LOLOL!!!!
i love it!!! I love MAMA, and i particularly like her hose that she rolls down around her knees!!!
ok, i'm offline..
time to go night night mike...sleep tight.Life is never fair and hardly ever makes sense....
ilovebbc wrote:
" Additionally, if she is receiving income, how do you know she's not putting it back into her ministry?"
That's the point! It's not Bellevue's place to fund Donna Gaines' ministry (or anyone else's), especially without the knowledge or approval of the congregation.
Funding distributed thru the missions ministry:
These are the exact records that were requested. If you would like to obtain this information, you simply need to send a letter requesing that the church provide you with documentation of the disbursements and committee approved disbursements.
A word of caution before you proceed with that letter. You won't get the documents, but perhaps the leadership will respond by sending your personal information to the entire church.
NASS,
Did you get my email yesterday?
Tim: That grieves my heart.
And people wonder why there is frustration and righteous anger....
And as a member of the church, in accordance with the laws of the State of Tennessee, every member should be able to review the records and financial information. There is absolutely no reason in heaven or on earth that these records should not be made available.
ilovebbc,
I have no problem funding staff mission trips to further the gospel. I would prefer that the trip and associated expenses were paid by the church like those taken by the previous leadership. The church makes travel arrangements, receiving appropriate tax exemptions and discounts and if necessary, giving the participant a cash travel advance which is to be reimbursed with expense receipts and/or cash back to account for the advance rather than cutting the staff member's wife a $30,000 check in her name with no strings attached.
Figure the reasoning for that one please and let me know how this applies to a tax exempt corporation with legal requirements for reporting.
Tim, perhaps that is why they will not release the financial records.
Perhaps the IRS needs to investigate.
Mr. Deacon,
Consider all references to "that" gone, including yours.
bbc senior citizen,
You're welcome. I was uncomfortable with that reference as well, regardless of the "context." I don't think any of us really needed that lesson.
Now, should I delete your comment since you quoted 4545's quote?
mom4,
They cut Donna Gaines a check for
$30,000? Are you serious? WHAT FOR?
SOTL,
Good question? I have been trying to find out myself. If it is a legitimate expense, why are they concealing it? I heard that several people knew about it and refused to account for it. I am wondering why any of the deacons have not asked about it. I also wonder if this is the tip of the iceberg??? I also wonder if our new administrative pastor knew about it?
With regard to the $30,000 check reportedly given to Donna Gaines, was the check made payable to her or to the Gaines' Alabama corporation, Hope For Your Future, Inc.? If it was made payable to the Gaines' corporation, was it considered a donation for mission work? Either way, it does appear inappropiate to pay Steve Gaines a salary far greater than the majority of the membership, then donate to his corporation as well. Double dipping comes to mind. Maybe the Gaines are learning quickly from our Memphis Ford family.
mom4
I agree with what you are saying. All we want to know is why she is receiving that money. Perhaps it is perfectly legitimate. If so, why not own up to it? No point in making yourself look guilty if you aren't.
Aren't any of the deacons concerned about this? Perhaps they will check into it and clear it up.
Yes, if this money is being distributed legitimately, BBC has nothing to hide in their financial records. However, not allowing contributors to see these records raises RED flags.
I have experienced this personally... in a similar situation, the "chief" was making an ample salary (almost $100,000 per year more than the other employees), and he was preventing even our very own board of directors from seeing these finanical records. Why? Obviously, there was something to hide.
ilovebbc: I agree 100%. The problem is, many on here seem to enjoy the juicy gossip and any possible opportunity to drag Dr. Gaines and or Donna and their family in the mud. They would rather post hate filled stuff about them and compare them to the Ford's etc, than to actually go talk to them or find out the truth.
4545,
I guess you do not know Steve Tucker, the chairman of the missions committee.
Just ask him if the missions committee is financing Donna's mission trip later this year. I thought I was told that it was to Africa???
She will receive income or to her company.
People, just ask for yourself!!
I am glad they are financing Donna Gaines mission trip. It is a MISSION trip, not a party. They finance trips for plenty of other people as well every single year. Who cares??
ilovebbc,
Thank you, I will take your suggestion and if given the opportunity will ask Mrs. Gaines about her trip and the financing/profiting thereof. However, I would prefer a truthful explanation, not a logical one.
Logical is defined as plausible, rational; whereas truth is defined as fact, reality, honesty.
Truth, facts, honesty - all those things that have been noticably absent from the current leadership of BBC.
The singles dept usually does a mission trip every year..usually to Nicaragua...whoever wants to go has to come up with the money...usually around 12-1400 dollars.
allofgrace: You are right, BUT not the leaders of the trip!! Not the head staff leader or the lay leader. Also, Bellevue has never and will never turn someone away because of money.
I don't know how it works for the rest of you, but when we have gone on mission trips we have either had to pay out of our pocket or raise every penny.
Forgot this - also, we have to pay (usually half) to go on a youth trip or camp. Imagine paying to do that, though there are many adults who actually do so!
ilovebbc said...
"Before putting information about a $30,000 check to Donna on here and causing everyone to speculate or guess about its purpose, I wonder if it's occurred to anyone to just walk up to her and ask her about it. Perhaps there's a logical explnation that would satisfy everyone."
Apparently the questions have been asked and the answer is "didn't happen" and "that is none of your business" - It depends on who you talk to. Like I said, a legitimate expense should not require concealment. If you can find out the truth, please let me know The disbursment DID occur, so if someone tells you it didn't, they are telling a falsehood - again.
To my recollection no one ever made it clear that whoever wanted to go, but didn't have the money, that the church would pick up the tab. What was said was "trust God" for it. Which imho is kinda presumptuous, if you don't have the money in hand and no other means of obtaining it are made clear.
4545 said...
allofgrace: You are right, BUT not the leaders of the trip!! Not the head staff leader or the lay leader. Also, Bellevue has never and will never turn someone away because of money.
3:35 PM, February 25, 2007
Not true - I was told that there were limited scholarships when my child wanted to go on a youth trip and was put on a waiting list - she was not able to attend - go figure...it has been that way since 1994 and has not changed.
4545 said...
I am glad they are financing Donna Gaines mission trip. It is a MISSION trip, not a party. They finance trips for plenty of other people as well every single year. Who cares??
It is sacred money, God cares.
They do expect all to try and raise the money. I have never had even close to a problem in earning enough for the trips I have been on. Many receive more than they need and the extra can be applied to others.
I in no way meant they would just let you say, I do not have the money, and they would then just hand it over.
Mom4: Oh, so God does not want Donna Gaines to go to Africa and spread the Gospel??
How sad!
I thank God that Donna Gaines is at Bellevue and has a burden for the lost. God has gifted her in a mighty way as a speaker. We are very blessed to have her!
Sorry 4545, but they would not even take her registration until I could pay the 50% deposit and by the time I got it (garage sale), they said it was too late and put her on a waiting list, so don't tell me MY child could have gone when I KNOW that they all but slammed the door in our face.
FACT - it depends on who you are - the cliques did not start in the power broker circles, they start in the youth department, and yet again, I have seen someone with a new car and a new house on the "scholarship" list for every trip they went on - and I can tell you their names.
There are no guidelines, no integrity and no truth in the leadership and it did not start with Steve Gaines, but folks are just now seeing it because there is now no integrity in the pulpit to restrain it.
Well here's what bothers me. If a church doesn't have the money that's one thing..but when said church can write a 25k check to another church like it was nothing, then make volunteers to do missions work go begging for the cost of going...according to my calculations that 25k could pay for 10-12 volunteers to go to Nicaragua..to me there's something wrong with that picture...but that's just me.
Here is the quick fix...
Let the Church give the Pastor more money in 2007 and then the missions committee will not have to fund her speaking trips!
Rememeber, Bill Clinton said that he didn't have a nickle to his name until he left "offic" and now he's a millionaire many times over.
We have no idea what the Gaines familes expenses are. The only thing "I" know is that he makes in excess of $9,000.00 per week in his package. And I'll leave it at that!
Soooo let's ease up a little on him a little!
For Donna Gaines to come up with the moo-lah to travel on her speaking tour may be unreasonable!
How do you earn money for these trips?
4545, don't read into something I did not say. Your only purpose on here is to create strife, so why don't you "just leave". (sound familiar)
Actually, I plan on scrolling on by your remaining posts, so it doesn't matter if you leave or not - the only time you show up is when there is something that you want to divert our attention away from - like the pending ordination at hand. I can ignore you the same way the leadership ignores the law.
mom4 said:
There are no guidelines, no integrity and no truth in the leadership and it did not start with Steve Gaines, but folks are just now seeing it because there is now no integrity in the pulpit to restrain it.
mom4 - you hit the nail directly and accurately on the head!!
lily,
There are many of us who know this to be true, and it is not the first time it has been said. No one in leadership cares or listens, which is a shameful thing for a ministry.
Dr Rogers was kept in the dark a lot and a lot went on behind his back, mostly by the same men who were laying in wait for him to retire, concealing their true hearts. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a Living God, and yet these men have no fear. What does that say about them?
MOM4 said...
Sorry 4545, but they would not even take her registration until I could pay the 50% deposit and by the time I got it (garage sale), they said it was too late and put her on a waiting list, so don't tell me MY child could have gone when I KNOW that they all but slammed the door in our face.
FACT - it depends on who you are - the cliques did not start in the power broker circles, they start in the youth department, and yet again, I have seen someone with a new car and a new house on the "scholarship" list for every trip they went on - and I can tell you their names.
There are no guidelines, no integrity and no truth in the leadership and it did not start with Steve Gaines, but folks are just now seeing it because there is now no integrity in the pulpit to restrain it.
If this is what happened before SG, then wouldn't it stand to reason that it was NOT being "restrained"?
And who makes the final decision in these cases? Are you accusing them of not having any integrity and playing favorites? If so, why wait to bring it up- if integrity has always been the issue, you should have been shouting from the rooftops back when it happened.
bepatient said...
"If this is what happened before SG, then wouldn't it stand to reason that it was NOT being "restrained"?
And who makes the final decision in these cases? Are you accusing them of not having any integrity and playing favorites? If so, why wait to bring it up- if integrity has always been the issue, you should have been shouting from the rooftops back when it happened."
I DID! Like I said, the power brokers have been in POWER for a long, long time and they don't CARE unless you are part of the elite. The only reason it is out in the open now is that the pulpit is so degraded, they can operate openly and freely.
Anybody going to the hear the "God Hates Dissenters" sermon?
Wonder if they wiil call the church into a meeting and vote some folks out after that?
Of course, that would be a violation of Matt. 18 ....oh, yeah, Matt.18 doesn't apply to Dr. Gaines so I suppose it could happen...
piglet,
That is ok if they vote me out. My lawyer can make them show cause and they will have to provide proof that their "house" is in order to win - I doubt that will happen unless they falsify records. And, IF they do that,they will have to answer to a higher court than Shelby County.
AOG wrote:
" If a church doesn't have the money that's one thing..but when said church can write a 25k check to another church like it was nothing, then make volunteers to do missions work go begging for the cost of going...according to my calculations that 25k could pay for 10-12 volunteers to go to Nicaragua..to me there's something wrong with that picture...but that's just me."
No, it's not just you. It's the truth.
So If your new do you get ignored on here
So If your new do you get ignored on here?
mspinson,
No Ma'm, you do not get ignored. I apologize for sliding on by your post. We earned money thru a personal garage sale to try to send our daughter on that trip. I don't know what other means other families used.
mspinson
Oh, didn't mean to ignore you. :)
Sorry but I'm not sure how to answer your question because I haven't been on a mission trip.
But welcome to the forum.
Thats ok.I 'm really just a lurker but had to ask when the topic of raising money came up...Steve Gaines has never allowed the Church where he is pastor to have any fund raiser's for anything!!!
For Donna Gaines to come up with the moo-lah to travel on her speaking tour may be unreasonable!
Is $9,000.00 a week enough to fund her speaking tour???
iwant2know...
I personally thought it was good for the kids to raise the money when they wanted to go on trips. Made them appreciate it more!
mspinson,
I agree about the kids working for what they want. I would like to see the kids have group fundraisers rather than scholarships. I gathered by your comments that you have attended a Steve Gaines' church in the past? May I ask where?
msp,
They are not referring to church-wide fund-raisers, you would have to ask for donations from family and friends, sell something, get a side job, etc.
And there is a difference between mission trips and youth trips, with the exception of choir tour,the youth trips are usually not mission related.
I have rarely (if ever), heard of a regular mission trip where someone that felt called and made the effort to raise as much money as possible on their own being turned away.
iwant2know,
Is the 9K salary or does it include other items such as housing and his car? Does the church pay for her car too?
You know, most of the congregation doesn't make that money in 2 months. I wonder why he thinks he is worth it?
mspinson wrote:
"I personally thought it was good for the kids to raise the money when they wanted to go on trips. Made them appreciate it more!"
Nothing wrong with them raising as much as they can, but could you raise $2500 in 2-3 months? I don't know that I could. And what about families with more than one kid? There is a limit as to what people can do.
What's Donna Gaines doing to raise the money for her trip? How many family members and "close friends" are going with her at the church's expense? Just asking.
I agree and it keeps the kids from being embaressed for not being able to afford the things like the other kids.. Yes I am a member at Gardendale..But I did'nt take offense to being call a country bumkin or what ever it was when this forum got started.. Matter of fact I thought it was funny!
mspinson: just wondering...how many members from Gardendale are lurking? Any idea?
I hate to see a post with the words "Who cares??" on the end relating to my hard-earned tithe money. All of us care, I assure you! Also, Mom4, I agree with you on what has precipitated all of this "mess" - lack of integrity in the pulpit. Although Dr. R did not know everything that went on, when he did know, it was dealt with appropriately! Hebrews 10:31 has been one of my favorite scriptures during all of this as well!
No idea..Sorry. I have prayed for all of you dailey and have emailed Jim, Nass and David so I'm not totally a lurker. I always thought when I was on Choir tour as a youth that I was sorta on a mission trip..We even built a Church once but I was'nt at Gardendale as a youth! Does it bother you that I lurk?
Hello mspinson and welcome! Don't worry about being "country", - you know in Tennessee, we don't even wear shoes! :)
Heavens no. I just am interested in your take from your perspective on the current situation. Or you can email me if you want; my address is on my profile.
Lurk away! Any insights you have would be welcomed.
Thank's and I am a true Southern Bell (and I hate to wear shoe's). What if any is the time differce there? Just wondering because it's 5 here and I am anxious about the service there tonight. We have wed. night services on Sunday night and a full service on Wed. and guess what? Our preacher preaches!!Just being funny
I'm attending tonight to show solidarity with the truthseekers. Those of you who know me, please let me sit with you. I'll be there about a quarter to six.
Cakes
mspinson
Now that I know Dr.Gaines, he can have Sundays AND Wednesdays off. I just don't want to pay him, too.
trollcakes
I can't stomach it. But someone I talked to suggested that those opposed walk out as the ordination begins. Might not be a bad idea if several were there.
Of course, you'd be doing this on the heels of the "God hates the dissenters" sermon.
piglet said...
"Of course, you'd be doing this on the heels of the "God hates the dissenters" sermon."
Funny, my "dissenting" actions are out of conviction by the Holy Spirit.
If the Lord would let me, I would leave! I wonder just how bad God "hates" me if he is making me stay at BBC, when it breaks my heart to see the Word misused and the hearts of people I love trampled under the feet of callous men?
mspinson,
The church I came from had a full service on Wednesday night as well and it was a real blessing. Classes were on Tues or Thurs for those that wanted to attend, but the mid week service was just that and boy did it help us get thru the week and stay in fellowship with God and each other. I do miss that so very much!!!
mom4
It is truly painful to be here.
In just a few minutes I will be watching the internet feed of the service tonite. Can't wait.
Popcorn anyone?
Barf bag?
Don't think I could make it through the week sometimes without it. I'll be thinking and praying for all of you tonight. I really think it is very important for you to be there. Not to make a spectical but to let them know you are coming to Church no matter what they say or do! You go to Church for God not for them anyway!
mspinson said
I really think it is very important for you to be there. Not to make a spectical but to let them know you are coming to Church no matter what they say or do! You go to Church for God not for them anyway!
Piglet says:
I understand what you are saying but I think God has left the building.
I DO go hear Br. Joe on Wed. night but we have our own personal "goon" who watches us....
mspinson,
There is a spirit of darkness over the church. It is very disturbing and it detracts from my worship. The music is anything but worshipful and the sermon is cold and self serving to Steve Gaines agenda. I am not the only one who feels this way. Some of the Rogers family has left, which is a sad commentary on how bad it is. Mrs Rogers has been shunned, her husband's reputation defrauded and his legacy cast down. It is a very dark day at Bellevue and will remain that way until someone in authority with the weight of God's integrity behind them will make a stand in the worship center.
I agree with Piglet. It is not worth the pain to attend.
Mom4
Have you been hearing Joe's sermonson SIN?
I am so sorry for all your pain! It makes me so sad for all of you. Stay strong God is in control.
mspinson
Thank you.
I'm off to Bellevue.org. :(
A few words of wisdom for the leadership of BBC (I would name names, but I don't want to be intentionally divisive...) Pay special attention to the last verse:
Proverbs 10:17
He who heeds discipline shows the way to life, but whoever ignores correction leads others astray.
Proverbs 12:1
Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid.
Proverbs 13:18
He who ignores discipline comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honored.
Proverbs 15:10
Stern discipline awaits him who leaves the path; he who hates correction will die.
Proverbs 15:12
A mocker resents correction; he will not consult the wise.
Incidently, those of you listening online keep us posted... I'm trying to do a few things at the same time.
And... those of you who attend the service, when you get back, give us an update, ok?
piglet,
No, we have been attending elsewhere. We needed refreshment from the Word and even though I love Joe, to be at BBC is disturbing. Besides, I want my children where they can be fed something other than the things of the world.
I have been listening to Dr Rogers and others on the oneplace.com website daily - try it, there are some good preachers out there - wish we had one of them...
I"m watching online, and it looks like they are going to go ahead with the ordination. They just had DC to come up to the stage to introduce him, but will wait to ordain him until after the sermon.
Did they change the sermon from what was previously posted? It looks like the sermon title is different. Am I mistaken about that?
I'm heartbroken. This is no longer BBC.
It's time, folks, it's time.
MOM4 said...
mspinson,
There is a spirit of darkness over the church. It is very disturbing and it detracts from my worship. The music is anything but worshipful and the sermon is cold and self serving to Steve Gaines agenda. I am not the only one who feels this way. Some of the Rogers family has left, which is a sad commentary on how bad it is. Mrs Rogers has been shunned, her husband's reputation defrauded and his legacy cast down. It is a very dark day at Bellevue and will remain that way until someone in authority with the weight of God's integrity behind them will make a stand in the worship center.
I agree with Piglet. It is not worth the pain to attend.
5:52 PM, February 25, 2006
I agree. The darkness has infiltrated Bellevue and I fear that Bellevue's disease is terminal unless Gaines and the rest of the Bellevue Mafia leave. Only then will Bellevue return to the standing that it was before Gaines came.
That is why people have left to worship elsewhere.
He is preaching to the unhappy sheep. Lots of empty seats..another way of saying if your causing disruption leave. That is normal for some to be disgruntal.
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