absolutely amazing!!! BBC doesn't feel that it should render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and all the previous poster can do is to deflect to Jim Haywood?
This is not about Jim Haywood. It is about BBC not abiding by law. A few minutes ago on the prevous blog, SG supporters were all over us about following the law..and not recording..and now...all you can do is blame it on Jim Haywood?
There just never seemed to be any HOPE that there would be a way for the "little guy" to have a say and make a difference in all of our troubles at Bellevue Baptist Church.
Is this group a bunch of broken hearted, Jesus loving, people loving, and pastor loving folks?
Where do I sign up?
OR are they sour faced, gun powder eating, bitter, angry folks who "say" all of the above but are wickedly deceived?
I want no part of this.
Which is it and how can I be assured?
With Christ all things are possible…. Even for the “little guy or gal”.
show me tenn. law where it says that i cannot record and i will.. i believe if you read the press release, you will see where it IS against tenn. law not to release the names of the members.
This is bigger than you are, Ace. IDC is not going away.
"You are not just wrong Ace, you are way wrong. See you in court."
It's comments like these that make me get down on my knees and pray for our church. If destructive attitudes like these continue, God will receive no glory. Maybe my newest blog post (On Spiritual Warfare) may help you out.
As a courtesy to nearby worshippers, please REFRAIN from still photography, or making video and audio recordings of the worship service. Thank you.
The request of the church mentions no violation of law or copywright, only that courtesy be extended to other worshippers. There are no laws being broken otherwise why would we have not had several thousand people arrested over the years.
Give me a break! It further damages the credibility of those that support this administration to propogate such foolishness.
cI do not want the church to release my name and address to any other church member that asks for it. There's 30,000 of us. Perhaps Mr. Haywood and those wanting the membership list, just want to use it for a mailing list but somewhere in that group of 30,000 might be someone who might similarly ask for such a list so they can come to my home and rob me or worse. If they have to give it to Mr. Haywood, how can they refuse to give it to any other member. If this group succeeds in forcing the church to give them a membership list, please let us know asap so I can contact the church and tell them I don't want them giving my name, address, phone number, etc. to anyone - member or not. As a matter of fact, I'll just go ahead and contact the church on Monday and advise them of that very thing.
Piglet says:
You are ALREADY being robbed -- of the truth by the people you trust.
They are breaking the law by not releasing this list.
Strangers all over the country have you on their mailing list and you're afraid of the church members? Methinks you protest too much.
"Somewhere in that 30,000 there might be someone who would get my address and come rob me or worse. If not one of those 30,000, then one of their relatives or friends who could easily get a copy of the list. "
Wow, what a lovely commentary on the Body of Christ.
Uh, what you describe could happen in a 100 member church. But from what you say, I think you should have your name taken off the membership rolls to be certain. I have heard there used to be an unsavory person on staff!
Does it strike you as at all curious that your "friend" mjm took note of you identity and suddenly up jumps the devil to let you know that they are aware of your identity as well?
I have a date with my wife and will be off for a few hours but I am truly interested in "where to sign-up" if this is as I stated earlier.
Ace, I'm sure you have some pointers for those of us who are "starving" for righteousness, transparency, integrity, openness, and accountability of our leadership.
The only way your name can be excluded from the membership list is if you are no longer a member. This law was not enacted last night. Any member of Bellevue can obtain the membership list.
Just for the record it was not Jim Heywood who requested the list.
ace said... Another site by Jim Haywood to seek attention. How sad.
5:03 PM, January 27, 2007
Ace,
I am involved with Integrity Does Count - The group asked Jim if we could put the press release on his site since savingbellevue.com gets a lot of hits. Don't confuse yourself - this group is serious and wishes to its very depths that it never had to be formed. Whatever attention it gets is just another symptom of the lack of transparency we're experiencing from the leadership at BBC.
graceupongrace said... "You are not just wrong Ace, you are way wrong. See you in court."
It's comments like these that make me get down on my knees and pray for our church. If destructive attitudes like these continue, God will receive no glory. Maybe my newest blog post (On Spiritual Warfare) may help you out. 5:28 PM, January 27, 2007
Sorry for the offense GoG. It was just a figure of speech I often use. I was trying to indicate to Ace that I am pretty sure of my opinion and will agree to disagree on what the law says. Like I said, figure of speech and perhaps a poor choice in these circumstances. Things can look different in print then when said face to face. I am sorry you took it the wrong way. I have no plans to sue Ace and I expect he does not plan to sue me.
I don't dislike Ace and he thanked me for a post yesterday I made on his behalf. He is welcome. I think we would get along great and would propbably argue about everything and yet somehow remain friends.
Okay, so if Bellevue breaks the law it's okay if you do? Is that what you're saying? Don't change the subject to Bellevue, we are talking about you. Is is okay for you to break the law? Thanks Ace for finally admitting that the leadership has broken the law.
Oh, stop it with the "Anti-Bellevue" stuff. I guess I'm "anti-choice" instead of pro-life too?
Your reaction to this indicates that you are part of this or are okay with it.
A great indicator that the push for integrity in our church has become VERY uncomfortable and THREATENING for the those who DO NOT want openness and integrity.
Guess we know where you stand.
This only strengthens our resolve.
You're not dealing with sissies. If God be for us, who can be against us?
I encourage everyone to get out your checkbook. Let's flood the Integrity Does Count mailbox with checks. It's obvious they need money to make Bellevue comply with Tennessee law. They will need money to hold that pubic meeting too.
WOW, I can't believe David Coombs said, "I don't care about the law." If that's true it is unbelievable and stupid. Is this what we want from the Bellevue leadership?
"Another site by Jim Haywood to seek attention. How sad."
25+ says:
Ace, this is a group and not an individual. It has a board of directors and a membership of its own. I kinda think that membership is going to expand... alot...
I promise you I'm not involved with that group in any form or fashion. I see an apparent need for funds and I encourage all to be generous. The church has millions at their disposal. Anyone opposing them needs money too. That's obvious.
Also, I'm not a thief. Thanks for your comment. Now we can see how your conniving mind works. I hope your not a BBC usher.
"Just because "Almighty Haywood" is involved, doesn't mean you have to support it. You say that we blindly follow Gaines? Well I'm saying that you blindly follow Haywood"
nah, nevermind...I won't even dignify this with a response.
I don't hate anyone...please do not put word in my mouth.
6:10 PM, January 27, 2007
Just wanted to know because your post are so vitrolic and you seem to be obsessed by Mr. Haywood.Has he done anything personal to you ,you do seem to be holding a grudge.
I have a dream... and I'll admit it. No, not while I was asleep, but while I read the Integrity Does Count site--a daydream I suppose you could say.
My dream is that this becomes a movement to help restore integrity and trust at BBC. If you are in sympathy with their stated goals, I encourage you to speak to like-minded members of Bellevue. My prayers are with them.
Somebody said in one of the posts that the only reason you guys (meaning the resistors)like it (meaning IDC) is because it is against Bellevue. There seems to be a misconception among some of the bloggers. IDC is not against Bellevue...to the contrary, they are FOR Bellevue. They are trying to save it...perserve it as it once was...return it's INTEGRITY.
For the record Jim Haywood is not an officer of the corporation. He also does not control the web site or its content. I have spoken with him on numerous occassions and know that he is extremely happy that some members of the church have decided to step forward.
This group is about Integrity, Ace & "think about it"... You seem to be conditioned to think in terms of cuts, percentages... They are not like what you are used to.
Ace said.. Yes he has done something personal to me but it is between him and me only, it doesn't concern the other people here. And I don't hold grudges, sorry, but you're wrong again, pilgrim.
6:17 PM, January 27, 2007
sounds like you ARE holding a grudge , just read the venom in your post.Maybe you should try to make peace with him insread of attacking his character
ace, what do they have to answer?...did they imply that they are receiving money themselves?...you implied it by your question and now you expect them to prove otherwise...isn't this the very thing you've squawked about?
I know that Matt. 18 has been ignored since May 2006 because the truth would be damaging to the pastor.
I know the pastor has admitted to breaking tax law, the law against tresspassing, the law against withholding info on child abuse, the law that opens the books to members of nonprofit organizations.
I know Coombs said "I don't care about the law."
I'm not guessing about these things. I know the truth and my responsibility is not to convince Ace.
Much to the chagrin of deceptive leaders, the truth is known about many things. :)
aog: what do they have to answer?...did they imply that they are receiving money themselves?
Ace: Huh? Not sure where this is going....no they didn't imply it, but by that person's posts, it sounds like he might have a share of the money, otherwise why would be be urging people to send in checks...to "flood" their box with them!
aog:...you implied it by your question and now you expect them to prove otherwise...isn't this the very thing you've squawked about?
ace:I didn't imply anything. You, on the other hand, inferred incorrectly.
aog, give it up. It is like talking with Bill Clinton. No matter what you say it was 'misunderstood'. Ace is a master, I will give him credit for that.
"Huh? Not sure where this is going....no they didn't imply it, but by that person's posts, it sounds like he might have a share of the money, otherwise why would be be urging people to send in checks...to "flood" their box with them!"
So let me understand this...because someone urged others to flood the mail box of an organization with checks, that automatically means they have a share of the money?...presumption, speculation, without reasonable cause.
ACE OFTEN posts for one purpose and one purpose only. OFTEN, ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into their hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
You said that same exact quote earlier, but it was followed by "If that's true... - therefore implying that you really don't know if it's true...IF, Piglet, you had to put that IF!
Piglet says:
Never used the IF word. Sorry.
As for your question. I'm just going to let you ask your Dad about that, okay?
I've made it clear I have nothing to do with Integrity Does Count, Inc. I'm not getting a cut of any money you send to that group. Anyone who says I am is a liar.
I'm going to prayerfully consider diving my tithe three ways: MABTS, LWF, and Integrity Does Count.
If David Coombs is using the files of women who were 'counseled' at bbc in order to intimidate them, be very careful. This includes anyone else that you may have given that information to.
Depositions are wonderful things. They can get to the truth.That is, of course, if once you place your hand on the Bible and swear to tell the truth, it still means something to you.
My lawyer has been notified, and is standing by, and will issue his own press release if necessary.
I guess you have to ask yourself,' do i want or need this publicity'
Ace said 'What's with all the verses tonight? Are we posting some of our favorite passages? Because I don't see how they are related to anything?'
1st Corinthians 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
I am involved with Integrity Does Count - The group asked Jim if we could put the press release on his site since savingbellevue.com gets a lot of hits.
So are you saying that Jim is only involved by placing a link on his site? That's absolutely it? Be honest, now...
Reply: Nope, he's involved. He is the one with the established website. He knew that by posting the press release there, people would most assuredly see it. If I had an established website, I would have let IDC post the press release.
Jim Haywood did not request the membership list for the record. And I've seen an affidavit where David Coombs says he does not care about Tennessee law.
Ok, now that we're being honest, will you be honest with me? Are you Steven/Stephen Coombs (I don't know how you spell it, so I didn't want to get caught up in a speling contest)? Don't lie - you know my name, but I don't think you know me. If you are indeed Steven/Stephen Coombs and you say your aren't, then after the blog is over and I find out that you are in fact Steven/Stephen Coombs, you will cause me to stumble in my Christian walk. If I promise not to record or videotape during worship services as to not disturb your worship, could you please tell me the truth about your identity as to not make me stumble? Thanks!
I hope that his movement will help many other churches as well.
Integrity, transparency, honesty, these things help churches avoid the pain that Bellevue has been enduring for many months now.
Let's pray that God will send reform and revival... soon."
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! GREAT POST PIGLET!
I SO HOPE THAT FOLKS WILL JUST BYPASS THIS PROPAGANDA ON THE BLOG BY ACE, AND THE OTHERS...YOU ALL KNOW WHO THEY ARE. THEY ARE ROBING YOU ALL OF YOUR JOY IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF THIS INTEGRITY DOES COUNT, INC. WHEN YOU SEE THE NAME...JUST DON'T EVEN READ IT. THEY ARE DISRUPTING THE FLOW HERE OF PROGRESS BEING MADE AND THAT IS THEIR GOAL. DON'T FALL FOR IT.
I, TOO, POPE THIS WILL HELP NOT ONLY BELLEVUE, BUT THE OTHER CHURCHES GOING THROUGH THIS; EVEN THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH IT...I PRAY THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE WROUGHT HAVOC IN THEIR CHURCHES WILL REPENT AND BEG FORGIVENESS FROM THOSE WHO WERE THE FOCUS OF THEIR WRONG DOINGS. I, ESPECIALLY, PRAY THAT THIS WILL BE A BEGINNING OF A NEW INITIAVE TO FREE UP THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION FROM THE EMERGENTS, PDS, ETC. AND LIFEWAY.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING SO BEAUTIFULLY WHAT IT IS MY HEART.
"...And BBC is private property, therefore they can set the rules and if you don't follow them, then you are breaking the law regardless of what your intentions are..."
Do you believe BBC is private property or are you saying they say it is private property. please clarify what you are saying or I will belive you believe it is privite property.
"And why are you deleting my posts? I have done nothing wrong here tonight."
Because you're acting like a jerk tonight and only trying to stir things up. If you can't see that, you're the only one here who can't see it. Hope you're having fun!
"Don't be a cowards."
I can't be "cowards" because, unlike you, there's only one NASS.
Sickofthelies, I am confused...what do you mean about DC using the files to intimidate....I missed something. I read thru all of the posts for today but don't understand about this. Since I have a file and I have spoken several times with the damage control guy hired for their investigation......I am interested. Anyone but ace,please inform...also does anyone (besides ace) know more about the integrity group????
2nd Cornithians 4:1 ¶ Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
"I would love to address posts here but if they will get deleted, it is a waste of my time.
"What do you say, NASS? Are you going to delete my posts? Or can I answer the questions being addressed my way?"
Sorry, but you've been a bad boy, so you've lost your posting privileges for the evening. Why not go get a cookie and watch your Sponge Bob videos for a while then get a good night's sleep so you can help Daddy sniff out illegal recording devices at church tomorrow. M'kay, precious?
John 3:20,21 "For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved, But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they wrought in God."
Two quotes to keep in mind as you "fight the good fight" that is being waged over the spiritual welfare of thousands. Please be careful my brothers and sisters you are damaged in the war.
"He believes and feels his own weakness and unworthiness and lives upon the grace and pardoning love of his Lord. This gives him an habitual tenderness and gentleness of spirit. Humble under a sense of much forgiveness to himself he finds it easy to forgive others"
"Though you set out in defense of the cause of God, if you are not continually looking to the Lord to keep you, it may become your own cause and awaken in you those tempers which are inconsistent with true peace of mind and will surely obstruct communion with God."
I've heard that theory, among others, but frankly, who cares?
I believe there's a comment in the previous thread from someone who claims to have "proof" and says s/he's willing to share that information if you'd like to write and see what s/he has to say.
As I stated yesterday, this forum isn't about "ace."
Psalm 80:17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself. 18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name. 19 Turn us again, O LORD God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
Sorry, I didn't mean to fuss at you. That would be a legitimate concern. Please write the person who posted the other day and see what s/he says. The address given was thetruthaboutace@yahoo.com.
Here are a few important changes that would help restore the trust of many members during these days of crisis in leadership--and I hope that the Lord will use IDC, inc. to help bring about such changes:
I. Pastoral Accountability to the Congregation: 1. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... and any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!! 2. The giving records of the membership and the ministers on staff at Bellevue should never be for pastoral review in any shape, form, or fashion. 3. Due to concern for potential abuse, no church credit cards. 4. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat. 5. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. 6. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc. 7. Immediate removal from office of ministers guilty of sexual immorality with immediate coordination with the appropriate authorities if any laws have been broken by a minister (no matter how long ago), including thorough investigation of the matter when the minister’s conduct may have affected other church members or their children.
II. Congregational Church governance: Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church has a set of "lay-elders," a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The rest of the congregation needs to be awakened. 1. Those who are part of this lay-elder "power block" need to step down from positions of influence for a long time. Bellevue needs “new blood” in these key positions. 2. There needs to be the signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services for the church. These people should not be allowed to serve on committees that review bids for their services. 3. Congregational nomination of and election of all of the Board of Directors as called for in the 1929 bylaws. 4. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. **The current bylaws mention "monthly" business meetings! When were they changed?? 5. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC. 6. A transparent committee selection process. 7. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount. 8. Thorough communication with the Congregation for ANY capital project well in advance of any vote. Building prayer buildings or any other type of building should be brought through proper channels to the congregation for prayerful consideration--not coerced "rubber stamping." [By the way, Dr. Rogers taught us quite a bit about prayer. As a matter of fact, I believe all of the current buildings ARE prayer buildings already. He and Dr. Whitmire also taught us quite a bit about worship also... but that's another topic]. 9. Bellevue needs to reject Warrenism fully and finally. 10. Higher standards should be put in place for the hiring of "ministers." Seminary training should be considered a normal prerequisite.
III. Treatment of ministers on staff at BBC and members: 1. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members. 2. The end of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members; and the end of signing non-disclosure statements. All ministers who have been pressured or asked to sign such non-disclosure statements should be released from them in writing by BBC! Former staff should be allowed to address the congregation and/or the deacon body either in writing or in person without any fear of reprisal regarding their exit from BBC. The congregation needs to know how their leadership has treated and is treating ministers who leave the service of our Lord through BBC. 3. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.
All in my opinion as usual.
We are to be “providing things honestly in the sight of all men” (Rom. 12:17). Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."
Proverbs 24:30 ¶ I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding; 31 And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down. 32 Then I saw, and considered it well: I looked upon it, and received instruction. 33 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: 34 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth; and thy want as an armed man.
"Let no man deceive you with vain words; for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience. Be not ye, therefore, partakers with them. For ye were once darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord; walk as children of light (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth),Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord."
Thanks. I got it. I am off to worship on this beautiful Sunday morning in Thailand.
I look forward to reading your insights.
I am reading that series of books by John Piper on different great men of the faith. The one I am reading right now is, "The Roots of Endurance" about John Newton, Charles Simeon, and William Wilberforce. They are really good and the application Piper makes from their lives is edifying. Those two quotes that I posted earlier from Newton really spoke to me and I thought of all of you there too.
Over here, I often need to remember the "roots of endurance".
"But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light; for whatever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore, he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See, then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, Redeeming the time, because days are evil. Wherefore, be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is."
Please respond to my post - I've never done anything to you to make you unwilling to answer me. Let's not break down our "relationship" now. I've been totaly honest with you and I feel you owe the same courtesy. In case you missed my request, here it is again:
Ok, now that we're being honest, will you be honest with me? Are you Steven/Stephen Coombs (I don't know how you spell it, so I didn't want to get caught up in a speling contest)? Don't lie - you know my name, but I don't think you know me. If you are indeed Steven/Stephen Coombs and you say your aren't, then after the blog is over and I find out that you are in fact Steven/Stephen Coombs, you will cause me to stumble in my Christian walk. If I promise not to record or videotape during worship services as to not disturb your worship, could you please tell me the truth about your identity as to not make me stumble? Thanks!
overflowinggrace said... "You have guaranteed yourselves a business meeting now. You will not like the outcome, but at this point the gloves must come off."
So rather than be honest with the congregation, you issue this threat? Will you be following scripture during the business meeting or just trying to damage the body of Christ? I am part of that body, and I stand on integrity and honesty. I have nothing to hide and I will more than welcome the opportunity to speak truth for all to hear.
25+years@BBC said, "II. Congregational Church governance: Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church has a set of "lay-elders," a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The rest of the congregation needs to be awakened.C said:
Churchmouse asks: I don't remember hearing of elders in the Baptist church. Have we always had "lay-elders"?"
overflowinggrace said... You have guaranteed yourselves a business meeting now. You will not like the outcome, but at this point the gloves must come off.
response: That is true, to recieve a mailing list, the members requesting (IDC)must disclose all members to verify membership.
Not sure what the bylaws state about member removal, but they could be removed from the membership roles, then case closed.
There will probably be at the most 300 people associated with IDC. If they are not removed from membership list first, there could be a vote called, which IDC would lose greatly.
After that vote, it would be a guarantee the members of IDC would lose their membership.
I say we vote to reconfirm SG, which will happen. Then we should remove some folks from our membership. This was the last straw, our membership and leadership can not let this continue. I don't need to hear any of your pointless dribble. Go stand on truth or whatever you want to call it somewhere else.
Isn't it interesting that suddenly you believe a business meeting is needed. To vote out those seeking integrity I presume. We don't need it to get to the truth of anything. We need it to deal with the troublemakers. What a farce our leadership is!
If you do that I promise I will write a book that details what I know of the Bellevue lies and lying liars who have told them. I've got files of information already gathered. This thing can get real nasty if you guys have that attitude.
I say we proceed. I am tired of pleading with these folks. BBC needs to get it's focus back. We have a great pastor and we need to get back to doing the Lord's work.
I have wanted a business meeting for awhile. I'm not in favor of letting you guys talk for three hours about Jamie Parker & fence jumping, but I say we reconfirm and move on.
I agree with you, the vote to reconfirm SG will probably happen. I would guess the vote will probably be 4,000-5000- for and 300-500 against.
then what? That small minority will look like a militant minority. You will probably see a group from the majority rise up to call for the disenters removal of membership. this could be good for the staff, because they werent the ones to bring it up. they could simply restate we are a congregational people and this is what the majority of the congregation wanted. It is very difficult to overthrow a baptist church in todays culture.
overflowinggrace said... You have guaranteed yourselves a business meeting now. You will not like the outcome, but at this point the gloves must come off. REPLY: You want to fight without gloves in God's house? Why would you want to do that?
"I say we vote to reconfirm SG, which will happen. Then we should remove some folks from our membership. This was the last straw, our membership and leadership can not let this continue. I don't need to hear any of your pointless dribble. Go stand on truth or whatever you want to call it somewhere else."
And where in scripture do you find the above statement? I believe Proverbs 28:13 will be appropriate at that business meeting. Sir or Maam, I will surely pray for you and perhaps the Lord shall see fit to remove the scales from your eyes and soften your heart so you can hear the truth about the leadership - even if you are part of it. If Steve Gaines is affirmed as pastor, and the church continues with unconfessed sin in the leadership, just how long do you think the Holy Spirit will remain?
ilovemychurch wrote: If you do that I promise I will write a book that details what I know of the Bellevue lies and lying liars who have told them. I've got files of information already gathered.
That would seal the deal for the majority. That is obvious non-christian retaliation.
Actually, let me restate what I said about Jamie. He isn't a symptom. I meant to say the kind of music we now have is a symptom. He is a human being and a brother. I love Jamie and meant no disrespect to him. He is in a tough spot.
This situation is much different than what GBC had, because there they had a majority of the "traditionlists" whose theme song is "I Will Not Be Moved", but at Bellevue it just "ain't so".
Maybe they can get someone like Biblical Discernment Ministries or "Slice of Laodicea" or one of the other "rabid anti's" to publish it for them. That would be apropos.
Don't forget the chapter on how Rick Warren ruined your church, or how the Bill Hybels or Larry Crabb or James Dobson, etc etc cause the "great deception" to fall on all but the sanctified few here in our church.
overflowinggrace It's ok for the pastor to hide a child molester from the church but let a few (300 people as you put it) start a group to demand integrity from the church leadership and you say it's last straw and want them kicked out of church.My my you sure are full of grace.
I don't know that I've ever said a word about Rick Warren or Hybels on the blog. I would not mention him in a book. He has nothing to do with this. Some forget what the issue really is. I am talking about documented lies by the leadership of Bellevue Baptist Church. My concern is with honesty and integrity. Period! The lying started over a year ago and it has to stop!
Make fun all you want. I'm sure Broadman would not be interested in the book I intend to write. I know others who would.
I don't know why I'm responding to you guys. I doubt Steve Gaines will even be the pastor of BBC more than another month or two anyway. JMO
True Healing? Can there be true healing at Bellevue under the current leadership? Not too long ago I would have answered, yes. Now, after so many occurrences involving the lack of integrity I must answer, NO. There was a time when it involved a difference of opinions, it now consists of different beliefs and convictions. There is so much distrust from many members towards the leadership that there will never be true healing and reconciliation with the current leaders in place. The opinion of many parishioners is that they have been misled and deceived to the point where trust is no longer possible. These men (you know who you are) have been saying for months now "if you don't like it, just leave". It seems that many have but with the announcement today of an organization that obviously plans to stick around, one must ask if they feel a sence of loss. Those feelings should have been felt when BBC received the many requests from members moving to sister churches in the area, due primarily to a lack of integrity.
Please refrain from using the anonymous identity as it becomes confusing distinguishing one anonymous commenter from another. Either register with Blogger (you can do this anonymously) and log in or select a unique screen name.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteBravo! Some real men of integrity step forward. Way to go guys.
ReplyDeleteabsolutely amazing!!! BBC doesn't feel that it should render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and all the previous poster can do is to deflect to Jim Haywood?
ReplyDeleteThis is not about Jim Haywood. It is about BBC not abiding by law. A few minutes ago on the prevous blog, SG supporters were all over us about following the law..and not recording..and now...all you can do is blame it on Jim Haywood?
LOLOL!! that's funny
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI have waiting so long for this.
ReplyDeleteThere just never seemed to be any HOPE that there would be a way for the "little guy" to have a say and make a difference in all of our troubles at Bellevue Baptist Church.
Is this group a bunch of broken hearted, Jesus loving, people loving, and pastor loving folks?
Where do I sign up?
OR are they sour faced, gun powder eating, bitter, angry folks who "say" all of the above but are wickedly deceived?
I want no part of this.
Which is it and how can I be assured?
With Christ all things are possible…. Even for the “little guy or gal”.
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ReplyDeleteshow me tenn. law where it says that i cannot record and i will..
ReplyDeletei believe if you read the press release, you will see where it IS against tenn. law not to release the names of the members.
This is bigger than you are, Ace. IDC is not going away.
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ReplyDeleteit is TENNESSEE LAW
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletethink about it,
ReplyDeletebbc employee, knower of all.
You have multiple identities don't you.
Bin wonderin said
ReplyDeleteWill BBC follow the law like GBC or remain in willful violation?
Piglet says:
Coombs responded when reminded of the statute "I don't care about the law."
There you have it, folks. Gaines is above the law according to Coombs.
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ReplyDelete"You are not just wrong Ace, you are way wrong. See you in court."
ReplyDeleteIt's comments like these that make me get down on my knees and pray for our church. If destructive attitudes like these continue, God will receive no glory. Maybe my newest blog post (On Spiritual Warfare) may help you out.
Ace said:
ReplyDeleteBut the people recording are not doing it for personal use, they are doing it for other obious (and selfish) reasons...therefore it's illegal.
Piglet says:
Apparently it is now selfish of us to want to record what our leaders say so they are held accountable for their words.
That's HOG wash. :0'
think about it,
ReplyDeleteExactly what do you hope to accomplish by bringing my kids up. Do you believe that you are intimidating me in some way?
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ReplyDeleteAs printed in bellevuetoday;
ReplyDeleteAs a courtesy to nearby worshippers, please REFRAIN from still photography, or making video and audio recordings of the worship service. Thank you.
The request of the church mentions no violation of law or copywright, only that courtesy be extended to other worshippers. There are no laws being broken otherwise why would we have not had several thousand people arrested over the years.
Give me a break! It further damages the credibility of those that support this administration to propogate such foolishness.
Praise God!...now there is a voice for the resistors. So very encouraging. May God's will be done. Bless each and every one of you.
ReplyDeletethinkaboutit said
ReplyDeleteIf they do that means that anybody could join the church, get your address and come after you and your children.
Do you want people knowing where they can find your child?
Piglet says:
bbc employee, knower of all, etc., you've got a thing about people's kids, especially Tim's.
Doyou needto be investigated?
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletethink about it,
ReplyDeleteMy e-mail is in the profile. Why don't you just contact me.
ilovebbc said:
ReplyDeletecI do not want the church to release my name and address to any other church member that asks for it. There's 30,000 of us. Perhaps Mr. Haywood and those wanting the membership list, just want to use it for a mailing list but somewhere in that group of 30,000 might be someone who might similarly ask for such a list so they can come to my home and rob me or worse. If they have to give it to Mr. Haywood, how can they refuse to give it to any other member. If this group succeeds in forcing the church to give them a membership list, please let us know asap so I can contact the church and tell them I don't want them giving my name, address, phone number, etc. to anyone - member or not. As a matter of fact, I'll just go ahead and contact the church on Monday and advise them of that very thing.
Piglet says:
You are ALREADY being robbed -- of the truth by the people you trust.
They are breaking the law by not releasing this list.
Strangers all over the country have you on their mailing list and you're afraid of the church members? Methinks you protest too much.
You must be in leadership.
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ReplyDeletepersonal attacks now? feeling pinned to the wall?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletethinkaboutit
ReplyDeleteLeveling veiled threats against Tim's kids is disgusting and makes you suspect.
If you are a child, you should have been raised better.
If not, God have mercy on your soul.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"Somewhere in that 30,000 there might be someone who would get my address and come rob me or worse. If not one of those 30,000, then one of their relatives or friends who could easily get a copy of the list. "
ReplyDeleteWow, what a lovely commentary on the Body of Christ.
Uh, what you describe could happen in a 100 member church. But from what you say, I think you should have your name taken off the membership rolls to be certain. I have heard there used to be an unsavory person on staff!
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ReplyDeletesickofthelies,
ReplyDeleteDoes it strike you as at all curious that your "friend" mjm took note of you identity and suddenly up jumps the devil to let you know that they are aware of your identity as well?
I have a date with my wife and will be off for a few hours but I am truly interested in "where to sign-up" if this is as I stated earlier.
ReplyDeleteAce, I'm sure you have some pointers for those of us who are "starving" for righteousness, transparency, integrity, openness, and accountability of our leadership.
Thanks in advance. I’ll check back later.
"Lindon,is you think we shouldn't be concerned with our privacy, then please post your home address."
ReplyDeleteExcuse me? I don't quite understand your use of pronouns and prepositions.
People already have access to your address, phone, etc within Bellevue...the office folks etc. have all that info on file.
ReplyDeletehahaha, SC, er, Ace..
ReplyDeleteIs this an intimidation attempt?
This IS what you all do, isn't it?
Yet another example.
:::::::::charging recording device:::::::
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteilovebbc,
ReplyDeleteThe only way your name can be excluded from the membership list is if you are no longer a member. This law was not enacted last night. Any member of Bellevue can obtain the membership list.
Just for the record it was not Jim Heywood who requested the list.
ok, going out with my family tonight..but I will be back on later..so ya'll play fair.
ReplyDeleteAce
ReplyDeleteStay out of this.
You may have missed what's been deleted.
We have a sick individual on this blog.
If this is leadership or their kids, BBC is in worse shape than I thought.
sickofthelies,
ReplyDeleteMy e-mail is on the profile, please drop me an e-mail. I would like to know what you think about mjm and then this other revelation.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteace said...
ReplyDeleteAnother site by Jim Haywood to seek attention. How sad.
5:03 PM, January 27, 2007
Ace,
I am involved with Integrity Does Count - The group asked Jim if we could put the press release on his site since savingbellevue.com gets a lot of hits. Don't confuse yourself - this group is serious and wishes to its very depths that it never had to be formed. Whatever attention it gets is just another symptom of the lack of transparency we're experiencing from the leadership at BBC.
karen
graceupongrace said...
ReplyDelete"You are not just wrong Ace, you are way wrong. See you in court."
It's comments like these that make me get down on my knees and pray for our church. If destructive attitudes like these continue, God will receive no glory. Maybe my newest blog post (On Spiritual Warfare) may help you out.
5:28 PM, January 27, 2007
Sorry for the offense GoG. It was just a figure of speech I often use. I was trying to indicate to Ace that I am pretty sure of my opinion and will agree to disagree on what the law says. Like I said, figure of speech and perhaps a poor choice in these circumstances. Things can look different in print then when said face to face. I am sorry you took it the wrong way. I have no plans to sue Ace and I expect he does not plan to sue me.
I don't dislike Ace and he thanked me for a post yesterday I made on his behalf. He is welcome. I think we would get along great and would propbably argue about everything and yet somehow remain friends.
ace said...
ReplyDeleteOkay, so if Bellevue breaks the law it's okay if you do? Is that what you're saying? Don't change the subject to Bellevue, we are talking about you. Is is okay for you to break the law?
Thanks Ace for finally admitting that the leadership has broken the law.
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ReplyDeleteAce
ReplyDeleteOh, stop it with the "Anti-Bellevue" stuff. I guess I'm "anti-choice" instead of pro-life too?
Your reaction to this indicates that you are part of this or are okay with it.
A great indicator that the push for integrity in our church has become VERY uncomfortable and THREATENING for the those who DO NOT want openness and integrity.
Guess we know where you stand.
This only strengthens our resolve.
You're not dealing with sissies.
If God be for us, who can be against us?
This is great news!!! I've longed for this day.
ReplyDeleteI encourage everyone to get out your checkbook. Let's flood the Integrity Does Count mailbox with checks. It's obvious they need money to make Bellevue comply with Tennessee law. They will need money to hold that pubic meeting too.
WOW, I can't believe David Coombs said, "I don't care about the law." If that's true it is unbelievable and stupid. Is this what we want from the Bellevue leadership?
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAce
ReplyDeleteWhich ace are you?
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAce said:
ReplyDelete"Another site by Jim Haywood to seek attention. How sad."
25+ says:
Ace, this is a group and not an individual. It has a board of directors and a membership of its own. I kinda think that membership is going to expand... alot...
Integrity Does Count... catchy, imo.
think about it said:
ReplyDeleteyou must be in charge of collecting the money for Integrity does count. You think you might be able to slip every few dollars into your pocket?
Piglet says:
You must assume this is the way leadership works? "What'sin it for me?"
Where would you get that idea?
think about it,
ReplyDeleteI promise you I'm not involved with that group in any form or fashion. I see an apparent need for funds and I encourage all to be generous. The church has millions at their disposal. Anyone opposing them needs money too. That's obvious.
Also, I'm not a thief. Thanks for your comment. Now we can see how your conniving mind works. I hope your not a BBC usher.
Ace,
ReplyDeleteWhy do you hate Jim Haywood so much?
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteWe are for the truth. End of story. Period. That's why I know God is with us.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHow do we join this new group,It's about time!
ReplyDelete"Just because "Almighty Haywood" is involved, doesn't mean you have to support it. You say that we blindly follow Gaines? Well I'm saying that you blindly follow Haywood"
ReplyDeletenah, nevermind...I won't even dignify this with a response.
"So what percentage of the cut are you getting from the checks?"
ReplyDeleteWe all know who made this statement. I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone here even bothers with someone like this.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteace said...
ReplyDeleteNThePew,
Why do you hate Jim Haywood so much?
I don't hate anyone...please do not put word in my mouth.
6:10 PM, January 27, 2007
Just wanted to know because your post are so vitrolic and you seem to be obsessed by Mr. Haywood.Has he done anything personal to you ,you do seem to be holding a grudge.
Haywood is definitely NOT running the IDC,Inc. website.
ReplyDeleteFolks, it's heating up. Hope you have your armour on, your shield of faith and the sword of the spirit.
Surely there are more than Ace and his buddy knowerofallbbcemployeethinkaboutit
to try to intimidate folks.
Oh,well, enough swatting flies. I need a break.
"So what percentage of the cut are you getting from the checks?"
ReplyDelete"hate-filled gossip"...ace, are you gonna be a bad boy today?
facts please.
"How do you know that you're for the truth? How do you know that you're not wrong? Are you all-knowing? "
ReplyDeleteFor starters...1 Corinthians 5 was not followed by a pastor of 20+ years.
I have a dream... and I'll admit it. No, not while I was asleep, but while I read the Integrity Does Count site--a daydream I suppose you could say.
ReplyDeleteMy dream is that this becomes a movement to help restore integrity and trust at BBC. If you are in sympathy with their stated goals, I encourage you to speak to like-minded members of Bellevue. My prayers are with them.
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ReplyDeleteve you noticed that the focus of hate has shifted from Mark Sharp to Jim Haywood . Interesting isn't it.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSomebody said in one of the posts that the only reason you guys (meaning the resistors)like it (meaning IDC) is because it is against Bellevue. There seems to be a misconception among some of the bloggers. IDC is not against Bellevue...to the contrary, they are FOR Bellevue. They are trying to save it...perserve it as it once was...return it's INTEGRITY.
ReplyDeleteace said...
ReplyDeleteThanks for your opinion.
Ace this your stock answer to avoid answering a question, thanks for the confirmation.
ace,
ReplyDeleteFor the record Jim Haywood is not an officer of the corporation. He also does not control the web site or its content. I have spoken with him on numerous occassions and know that he is extremely happy that some members of the church have decided to step forward.
"I Love My Church wrote: I encourage everyone to get out your checkbook. Let's flood the Integrity Does Count mailbox with checks.
ReplyDeleteAce wrote: So what percentage of the cut are you getting from the checks?
Esther wrote: We all know who made this statement. I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone here even bothers with someone like this.
Ace responds: Because he urged everyone to send their checks in to the P.O. box, that is all."
Ace’s real name is Eddie Haskell :o)
"you must be in charge of collecting the money for Integrity does count. You think you might be able to slip every few dollars into your pocket?"
ReplyDeletehate-filled gossip, innuendo, speculation...tsk tsk
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ReplyDeleteilovebbc said...
ReplyDeleteI do not want the church to release my name and address to any other church member that asks for it.
Reply:
It is the TENNESSEE LAW and NOT an option. TSC 48-66-101, 102, 103, 104, 105. Here is a link to the law so you can read for yourself.
TSC 48-66-101
bin wonderin,
ReplyDelete"Sorry for the offense GoG."
It's all good :)
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ReplyDeleteThis group is about Integrity, Ace & "think about it"... You seem to be conditioned to think in terms of cuts, percentages... They are not like what you are used to.
ReplyDeletejmo
Ace said..
ReplyDeleteYes he has done something personal to me but it is between him and me only, it doesn't concern the other people here. And I don't hold grudges, sorry, but you're wrong again, pilgrim.
6:17 PM, January 27, 2007
sounds like you ARE holding a grudge , just read the venom in your post.Maybe you should try to make peace with him insread of attacking his character
ace,
ReplyDeletewhat do they have to answer?...did they imply that they are receiving money themselves?...you implied it by your question and now you expect them to prove otherwise...isn't this the very thing you've squawked about?
Tim, He is just fishing for information.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI know that Matt. 18 has been ignored since May 2006 because the truth would be damaging to the pastor.
ReplyDeleteI know the pastor has admitted to breaking tax law, the law against tresspassing, the law against withholding info on child abuse, the law that opens the books to members of nonprofit organizations.
I know Coombs said "I don't care about the law."
I'm not guessing about these things. I know the truth and my responsibility is not to convince Ace.
Much to the chagrin of deceptive leaders, the truth is known about many things. :)
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteaog: what do they have to answer?...did they imply that they are receiving money themselves?
ReplyDeleteAce: Huh? Not sure where this is going....no they didn't imply it, but by that person's posts, it sounds like he might have a share of the money, otherwise why would be be urging people to send in checks...to "flood" their box with them!
aog:...you implied it by your question and now you expect them to prove otherwise...isn't this the very thing you've squawked about?
ace:I didn't imply anything. You, on the other hand, inferred incorrectly.
aog, give it up. It is like talking with Bill Clinton. No matter what you say it was 'misunderstood'. Ace is a master, I will give him credit for that.
"Huh? Not sure where this is going....no they didn't imply it, but by that person's posts, it sounds like he might have a share of the money, otherwise why would be be urging people to send in checks...to "flood" their box with them!"
ReplyDeleteSo let me understand this...because someone urged others to flood the mail box of an organization with checks, that automatically means they have a share of the money?...presumption, speculation, without reasonable cause.
Ace said..
ReplyDeleteam not attacking his character
Please give us a break,you are on a nonstop attack,have you forgotton your open letter to him.
Bloggers,
ReplyDeleteACE OFTEN posts for one purpose and one purpose only. OFTEN, ACE's sole purpose is to be antagonistic. As long as ya'll waste your precious time and talent feeding ACE, ACE will continue to play that game. If you ignore ACE, then ACE will soon go away. Ya'll need to FOCUS, FOCUS, FOCUS on the problems at BBC and quit playing into their hands by playing their game. I know that it is hard to resist taking the BAIT, but you must RESIST THE TEMPTATION.
integritydoescount.com
ReplyDeleteI hope that his movement will help many other churches as well.
Integrity, transparency, honesty, these things help churches avoid the pain that Bellevue has been enduring for many months now.
Let's pray that God will send reform and revival... soon.
Ace said
ReplyDeleteYou said that same exact quote earlier, but it was followed by "If that's true... - therefore implying that you really don't know if it's true...IF, Piglet, you had to put that IF!
Piglet says:
Never used the IF word. Sorry.
As for your question. I'm just going to let you ask your Dad about that, okay?
Now, run along and play. :)
allofgrace.
ReplyDeleteThats the way they (leadership) operate and they think everyone is like them.
Charlie, Amen and it is worse than that. He does it to get everyone off topic and bsuy defending every comment AND to fish for information.
ReplyDeleteHe is a true master of his calling.
Piglet, Let's you and I try not to get sucked in anymore. :o)
esther
ReplyDeleteI agree. I am tired of swatting flies like Ace.
Integrity Does Count,Inc. is a serious group of folks who have put a lot of time and prayer into what they are doing.
Please pray for the truth to prevail and the will of God to be done.
Also pray for protection for the members and their families.
I've made it clear I have nothing to do with Integrity Does Count, Inc. I'm not getting a cut of any money you send to that group. Anyone who says I am is a liar.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to prayerfully consider diving my tithe three ways: MABTS, LWF, and Integrity Does Count.
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ReplyDeleteIt is not "anti-Bellevue" to oppose the leadership of the 15 or so men who run Bellevue. Bellevue is much larger than any group of 15 people.
ReplyDeleteNASS
ReplyDeleteYou have emails.
Just send me "Email for Dummies" for my birthday.:o(
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ReplyDeletejust a quick note before I leave the house
ReplyDeleteIf David Coombs is using the files of women who were 'counseled' at bbc in order to intimidate them, be very careful. This includes anyone else that you may have given that information to.
Depositions are wonderful things. They can get to the truth.That is, of course, if once you place your hand on the Bible and swear to tell the truth, it still means something to you.
My lawyer has been notified, and is standing by, and will issue his own press release if necessary.
I guess you have to ask yourself,' do i want or need this publicity'
THINK about it David.
post from early this morning
ReplyDeleteAce said
'What's with all the verses tonight? Are we posting some of our favorite passages? Because I don't see how they are related to anything?'
1st Corinthians 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
12:52 AM, January 27, 2007
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ReplyDeleteShine down your light on me,
ReplyDeleteLet the people see,
'Cause in your presence darkness flees
Father of Lights, shine down...
I doubt David does read this blog, but I'm sure that he has someone reporting back to him. So why does he have to?
ReplyDeleteJust my opinion.
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ReplyDeleteonly YOU would know the answer to that question, now wouldn't you?
ReplyDeleteAce,
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Bellevue has a paid staff member monitering these blogs.
Or maybe the Administration has a family member posting here.
Do you know anything about this?
amos,
ReplyDeleteLove that passage. Thanks for dropping by my blog and participating :)
Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
ReplyDelete11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
ace said...
ReplyDeleteKaren,
I am involved with Integrity Does Count - The group asked Jim if we could put the press release on his site since savingbellevue.com gets a lot of hits.
So are you saying that Jim is only involved by placing a link on his site? That's absolutely it? Be honest, now...
Reply: Nope, he's involved. He is the one with the established website. He knew that by posting the press release there, people would most assuredly see it. If I had an established website, I would have let IDC post the press release.
Jim Haywood did not request the membership list for the record. And I've seen an affidavit where David Coombs says he does not care about Tennessee law.
Ok, now that we're being honest, will you be honest with me? Are you Steven/Stephen Coombs (I don't know how you spell it, so I didn't want to get caught up in a speling contest)? Don't lie - you know my name, but I don't think you know me. If you are indeed Steven/Stephen Coombs and you say your aren't, then after the blog is over and I find out that you are in fact Steven/Stephen Coombs, you will cause me to stumble in my Christian walk. If I promise not to record or videotape during worship services as to not disturb your worship, could you please tell me the truth about your identity as to not make me stumble? Thanks!
karen
a summons to search someone's house would surely reveal the screen names on their computers.
ReplyDelete:::: just thinking outloud:::::::
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ReplyDelete25+yrs@BBC said...
ReplyDelete"integritydoescount.com
I hope that his movement will help many other churches as well.
Integrity, transparency, honesty, these things help churches avoid the pain that Bellevue has been enduring for many months now.
Let's pray that God will send reform and revival... soon."
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
GREAT POST PIGLET!
I SO HOPE THAT FOLKS WILL JUST BYPASS THIS PROPAGANDA ON THE BLOG BY ACE, AND THE OTHERS...YOU ALL KNOW WHO THEY ARE. THEY ARE ROBING YOU ALL OF YOUR JOY IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF THIS INTEGRITY DOES COUNT, INC. WHEN YOU SEE THE NAME...JUST DON'T EVEN READ IT. THEY ARE DISRUPTING THE FLOW HERE OF PROGRESS BEING MADE AND THAT IS THEIR GOAL. DON'T FALL FOR IT.
I, TOO, POPE THIS WILL HELP NOT ONLY BELLEVUE, BUT THE OTHER CHURCHES GOING THROUGH THIS; EVEN THE ONES WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH IT...I PRAY THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE WROUGHT HAVOC IN THEIR CHURCHES WILL REPENT AND BEG FORGIVENESS FROM THOSE WHO WERE THE FOCUS OF THEIR WRONG DOINGS. I, ESPECIALLY, PRAY THAT THIS WILL BE A BEGINNING
OF A NEW INITIAVE TO FREE UP THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION FROM THE EMERGENTS, PDS, ETC. AND LIFEWAY.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING SO BEAUTIFULLY WHAT IT IS MY HEART.
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ReplyDeleteBin Wonderin said...
ReplyDelete"...And BBC is private property, therefore they can set the rules and if you don't follow them, then you are breaking the law regardless of what your intentions are..."
Do you believe BBC is private property or are you saying they say it is private property. please clarify what you are saying or I will belive you believe it is privite property.
ace wrote:
ReplyDelete"And why are you deleting my posts? I have done nothing wrong here tonight."
Because you're acting like a jerk tonight and only trying to stir things up. If you can't see that, you're the only one here who can't see it. Hope you're having fun!
"Don't be a cowards."
I can't be "cowards" because, unlike you, there's only one NASS.
Aren't you missing Sponge Bob?
NBBCOF
Sickofthelies,
ReplyDeleteI am confused...what do you mean about DC using the files to intimidate....I missed something. I read thru all of the posts for today but don't understand about this. Since I have a file and I have spoken several times with the damage control guy hired for their investigation......I am interested. Anyone but ace,please inform...also does anyone (besides ace) know more about the integrity group????
Ace,
ReplyDeleteAnswer us!
Are you Stephen Coombs?
We need the truth!
2nd Cornithians 4:1 ¶ Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
ReplyDelete2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Karen,
ReplyDeleteWould you please e-mail me directly with info about IDC,Inc.? Thanks
piglet,
ReplyDeleteDon't engage think about it - by the time I catch up in the reading, their posts have been deleted and I have no idea what you're talking about. :)
Karen
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAre you going to answer my question, Ace or should I say Stephen?
ReplyDeleteOr did your daddy ground you for being too sloppy and getting caught?
ace wrote:
ReplyDelete"I would love to address posts here but if they will get deleted, it is a waste of my time.
"What do you say, NASS? Are you going to delete my posts? Or can I answer the questions being addressed my way?"
Sorry, but you've been a bad boy, so you've lost your posting privileges for the evening. Why not go get a cookie and watch your Sponge Bob videos for a while then get a good night's sleep so you can help Daddy sniff out illegal recording devices at church tomorrow. M'kay, precious?
NBBCOF
Please someone explain how anything that IDC does will change how BBC operates.
ReplyDeleteYou can have all the votes you want but you can't force BBC to enforce.
sickofthelies,
ReplyDeleteCould you email me please?..thanks.
IS ACE STEPHEN COOMBS?
ReplyDeleteJohn 3:20,21
ReplyDelete"For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved,
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they wrought in God."
Two quotes to keep in mind as you "fight the good fight" that is being waged over the spiritual welfare of thousands. Please be careful my brothers and sisters you are damaged in the war.
ReplyDelete"He believes and feels his own weakness and unworthiness and lives upon the grace and pardoning love of his Lord. This gives him an habitual tenderness and gentleness of spirit. Humble under a sense of much forgiveness to himself he finds it easy to forgive others"
"Though you set out in defense of the cause of God, if you are not continually looking to the Lord to keep you, it may become your own cause and awaken in you those tempers which are inconsistent with true peace of mind and will surely obstruct communion with God."
lover of bbc,
ReplyDeleteI've heard that theory, among others, but frankly, who cares?
I believe there's a comment in the previous thread from someone who claims to have "proof" and says s/he's willing to share that information if you'd like to write and see what s/he has to say.
As I stated yesterday, this forum isn't about "ace."
Thank you,
NBBCOF
Sorry, Obviously I meant to say "are not" damaged. I am praying daily for you, though I don't know you all by name.
ReplyDeletequite frankly I care because I want to know if he is getting paid by the church.
ReplyDeleteAre my tithes paying for him to post here?
Psalm 80:17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.
ReplyDelete18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
19 Turn us again, O LORD God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
lover of bbc,
ReplyDeletesaid
"quite frankly I care because I want to know if he is getting paid by the church.
Are my tithes paying for him to post here?"
What!!!!!!!!!!!
lover of bbc,
ReplyDeleteSorry, I didn't mean to fuss at you. That would be a legitimate concern. Please write the person who posted the other day and see what s/he says. The address given was thetruthaboutace@yahoo.com.
Please let us know what you find out.
Here are a few important changes that would help restore the trust of many members during these days of crisis in leadership--and I hope that the Lord will use IDC, inc. to help bring about such changes:
ReplyDeleteI. Pastoral Accountability to the Congregation:
1. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... and any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!
2. The giving records of the membership and the ministers on staff at Bellevue should never be for pastoral review in any shape, form, or fashion.
3. Due to concern for potential abuse, no church credit cards.
4. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.
5. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members.
6. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.
7. Immediate removal from office of ministers guilty of sexual immorality with immediate coordination with the appropriate authorities if any laws have been broken by a minister (no matter how long ago), including thorough investigation of the matter when the minister’s conduct may have affected other church members or their children.
II. Congregational Church governance:
Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church has a set of "lay-elders," a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The rest of the congregation needs to be awakened.
1. Those who are part of this lay-elder "power block" need to step down from positions of influence for a long time. Bellevue needs “new blood” in these key positions.
2. There needs to be the signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services for the church. These people should not be allowed to serve on committees that review bids for their services.
3. Congregational nomination of and election of all of the Board of Directors as called for in the 1929 bylaws.
4. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. **The current bylaws mention "monthly" business meetings! When were they changed??
5. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.
6. A transparent committee selection process.
7. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.
8. Thorough communication with the Congregation for ANY capital project well in advance of any vote. Building prayer buildings or any other type of building should be brought through proper channels to the congregation for prayerful consideration--not coerced "rubber stamping." [By the way, Dr. Rogers taught us quite a bit about prayer. As a matter of fact, I believe all of the current buildings ARE prayer buildings already. He and Dr. Whitmire also taught us quite a bit about worship also... but that's another topic].
9. Bellevue needs to reject Warrenism fully and finally.
10. Higher standards should be put in place for the hiring of "ministers." Seminary training should be considered a normal prerequisite.
III. Treatment of ministers on staff at BBC and members:
1. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members.
2. The end of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members; and the end of signing non-disclosure statements. All ministers who have been pressured or asked to sign such non-disclosure statements should be released from them in writing by BBC! Former staff should be allowed to address the congregation and/or the deacon body either in writing or in person without any fear of reprisal regarding their exit from BBC. The congregation needs to know how their leadership has treated and is treating ministers who leave the service of our Lord through BBC.
3. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.
All in my opinion as usual.
We are to be “providing things honestly in the sight of all men” (Rom. 12:17). Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."
kingdom,
ReplyDeletedid you get my email?
Proverbs 24:30 ¶ I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding;
ReplyDelete31 And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down.
32 Then I saw, and considered it well: I looked upon it, and received instruction.
33 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep:
34 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth; and thy want as an armed man.
AOG,
ReplyDeleteI got the one yesterday, but I didn't get the original one.
kingdom,
ReplyDeleteI'll resend it.
Ok, thanks.
ReplyDeletekingdom,
ReplyDeleteI just resent it...let me know if it doesn't get there.
"Let no man deceive you with vain words; for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience. Be not ye, therefore, partakers with them. For ye were once darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord; walk as children of light (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth),Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord."
ReplyDeleteEphesians 5:6-10
NASS,
ReplyDeleteLooks like your hands are full tonight! I am praying for you!
Thanks. I got it. I am off to worship on this beautiful Sunday morning in Thailand.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to reading your insights.
I am reading that series of books by John Piper on different great men of the faith. The one I am reading right now is, "The Roots of Endurance" about John Newton, Charles Simeon, and William Wilberforce. They are really good and the application Piper makes from their lives is edifying. Those two quotes that I posted earlier from Newton really spoke to me and I thought of all of you there too.
Over here, I often need to remember the "roots of endurance".
Off to worship -blessings!
"But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light; for whatever doth make manifest is light. Wherefore, he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See, then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, Redeeming the time, because days are evil. Wherefore, be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is."
ReplyDeleteEphesians 5:14-17
ace,
ReplyDeletePlease respond to my post - I've never done anything to you to make you unwilling to answer me. Let's not break down our "relationship" now. I've been totaly honest with you and I feel you owe the same courtesy. In case you missed my request, here it is again:
Ok, now that we're being honest, will you be honest with me? Are you Steven/Stephen Coombs (I don't know how you spell it, so I didn't want to get caught up in a speling contest)? Don't lie - you know my name, but I don't think you know me. If you are indeed Steven/Stephen Coombs and you say your aren't, then after the blog is over and I find out that you are in fact Steven/Stephen Coombs, you will cause me to stumble in my Christian walk. If I promise not to record or videotape during worship services as to not disturb your worship, could you please tell me the truth about your identity as to not make me stumble? Thanks!
karen
You have guaranteed yourselves a business meeting now. You will not like the outcome, but at this point the gloves must come off.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteAce,
ReplyDeleteYou have my email address. I'll be waiting.
karen
overflowinggrace said...
ReplyDelete"You have guaranteed yourselves a business meeting now. You will not like the outcome, but at this point the gloves must come off."
So rather than be honest with the congregation, you issue this threat?
Will you be following scripture during the business meeting or just trying to damage the body of Christ? I am part of that body, and I stand on integrity and honesty. I have nothing to hide and I will more than welcome the opportunity to speak truth for all to hear.
Speaking of truth ... Tim, what about that retraction I requested of you by email?
ReplyDelete25+years@BBC said,
ReplyDelete"II. Congregational Church governance:
Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church has a set of "lay-elders," a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The rest of the congregation needs to be awakened.C said:
Churchmouse asks:
I don't remember hearing of elders in the Baptist church. Have we always had "lay-elders"?"
overflowinggrace said...
ReplyDeleteYou have guaranteed yourselves a business meeting now. You will not like the outcome, but at this point the gloves must come off.
response: That is true, to recieve a mailing list, the members requesting (IDC)must disclose all members to verify membership.
Not sure what the bylaws state about member removal, but they could be removed from the membership roles, then case closed.
There will probably be at the most 300 people associated with IDC. If they are not removed from membership list first, there could be a vote called, which IDC would lose greatly.
After that vote, it would be a guarantee the members of IDC would lose their membership.
seems to me it is a lose-lose situation.
MOM4,
ReplyDeleteI say we vote to reconfirm SG, which will happen. Then we should remove some folks from our membership. This was the last straw, our membership and leadership can not let this continue. I don't need to hear any of your pointless dribble. Go stand on truth or whatever you want to call it somewhere else.
Overflowinggrace,
ReplyDeleteIsn't it interesting that suddenly you believe a business meeting is needed. To vote out those seeking integrity I presume. We don't need it to get to the truth of anything. We need it to deal with the troublemakers. What a farce our leadership is!
If you do that I promise I will write a book that details what I know of the Bellevue lies and lying liars who have told them. I've got files of information already gathered. This thing can get real nasty if you guys have that attitude.
Terry,
ReplyDeleteI say we proceed. I am tired of pleading with these folks. BBC needs to get it's focus back. We have a great pastor and we need to get back to doing the Lord's work.
I love my church,
ReplyDeleteI have wanted a business meeting for awhile. I'm not in favor of letting you guys talk for three hours about Jamie Parker & fence jumping, but I say we reconfirm and move on.
Telling the truth is the Lord's work.
ReplyDeleteoverflowinggrace,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, the vote to reconfirm SG will probably happen. I would guess the vote will probably be 4,000-5000- for and 300-500 against.
then what? That small minority will look like a militant minority. You will probably see a group from the majority rise up to call for the disenters removal of membership. this could be good for the staff, because they werent the ones to bring it up. they could simply restate we are a congregational people and this is what the majority of the congregation wanted. It is very difficult to overthrow a baptist church in todays culture.
You don't hear me talking about Jamie. In fact, almost no one does. He is a symptom, not a cause.
ReplyDeleteNow fence jumping, what a pack of lies surround that.
Halleluljah for IDC. God bless every person who has been so faithful to bring the truth to this forum. I also want to become part of this IDC group.
ReplyDeleteoverflowinggrace said...
ReplyDeleteYou have guaranteed yourselves a business meeting now. You will not like the outcome, but at this point the gloves must come off.
REPLY:
You want to fight without gloves in God's house? Why would you want to do that?
Seems kind of like the proverbial dog who chased the fire truck. When he catches what is he going to do with it?
ReplyDeleteLooks like that minefield may be loaded!
overflowinggrace said...
ReplyDeleteMOM4,
"I say we vote to reconfirm SG, which will happen. Then we should remove some folks from our membership. This was the last straw, our membership and leadership can not let this continue. I don't need to hear any of your pointless dribble. Go stand on truth or whatever you want to call it somewhere else."
And where in scripture do you find the above statement? I believe Proverbs 28:13 will be appropriate at that business meeting.
Sir or Maam, I will surely pray for you and perhaps the Lord shall see fit to remove the scales from your eyes and soften your heart so you can hear the truth about the leadership - even if you are part of it. If Steve Gaines is affirmed as pastor, and the church continues with unconfessed sin in the leadership, just how long do you think the Holy Spirit will remain?
ilovemychurch wrote:
ReplyDeleteIf you do that I promise I will write a book that details what I know of the Bellevue lies and lying liars who have told them. I've got files of information already gathered.
That would seal the deal for the majority. That is obvious non-christian retaliation.
Actually, let me restate what I said about Jamie. He isn't a symptom. I meant to say the kind of music we now have is a symptom. He is a human being and a brother. I love Jamie and meant no disrespect to him. He is in a tough spot.
ReplyDeletechurchmouse,
ReplyDeleteWe will only be getting down on your level.
Ladies and Gents,
ReplyDeleteA little DECORUM on both sides!!
Oh it will be written in retaliation for what you guys are doing, not the other way around.
ReplyDeleteWriting a book that tells the truth is not non-Christian retaliation. The truth must come out!
ReplyDeleteThis situation is much different than what GBC had, because there they had a majority of the "traditionlists" whose theme song is "I Will Not Be Moved", but at Bellevue it just "ain't so".
ReplyDeleteI love my church,
ReplyDeleteA book..A BOOK!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Sorry Charlie,
ReplyDeleteI was trying to make a point, not be offensive. I will tone it down.
Maybe they can get someone like Biblical Discernment Ministries or "Slice of Laodicea" or one of the other "rabid anti's" to publish it for them. That would be apropos.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget the chapter on how Rick Warren ruined your church, or how the Bill Hybels or Larry Crabb or James Dobson, etc etc cause the "great deception" to fall on all but the sanctified few here in our church.
Sunquests (spelling)book sure didnt put a dent in Rick Warren.
ReplyDeleteOverflowinggrace,
ReplyDeleteWhere did they all go? You must have really shook them up with your scenario and they are holding a conference call with Heywood and the rest.
overflowinggrace
ReplyDeleteIt's ok for the pastor to hide a child molester from the church but let a few (300 people as you put it) start a group to demand integrity from the church leadership and you say it's last straw and want them kicked out of church.My my you sure are full of grace.
I don't know that I've ever said a word about Rick Warren or Hybels on the blog. I would not mention him in a book. He has nothing to do with this. Some forget what the issue really is. I am talking about documented lies by the leadership of Bellevue Baptist Church. My concern is with honesty and integrity. Period! The lying started over a year ago and it has to stop!
ReplyDeleteMake fun all you want. I'm sure Broadman would not be interested in the book I intend to write. I know others who would.
I don't know why I'm responding to you guys. I doubt Steve Gaines will even be the pastor of BBC more than another month or two anyway. JMO
truthBtold,
ReplyDeleteYou might want to live by this.
Living a life that honors Jesus and brings glory to Him alone
True Healing?
ReplyDeleteCan there be true healing at Bellevue under the current leadership? Not too long ago I would have answered, yes. Now, after so many occurrences involving the lack of integrity I must answer, NO. There was a time when it involved a difference of opinions, it now consists of different beliefs and convictions. There is so much distrust from many members towards the leadership that there will never be true healing and reconciliation with the current leaders in place. The opinion of many parishioners is that they have been misled and deceived to the point where trust is no longer possible. These men (you know who you are) have been saying for months now "if you don't like it, just leave". It seems that many have but with the announcement today of an organization that obviously plans to stick around, one must ask if they feel a sence of loss. Those feelings should have been felt when BBC received the many requests from members moving to sister churches in the area, due primarily to a lack of integrity.