"For the love of money is the root of all evil." (1 Tim. 6:10a) Ergo... follow the money.
Friday, December 01, 2006
Communications Committee Meeting at 8:00 Sunday
The Communications Committee is meeting again this Sunday, December 3rd, at 8:00 a.m. in the first room on the right down the hallway next to the ERC. Last week there were over 100 people in attendance. We can do much better than that! If you have questions or just want to gain information, please be there! If each person who was there last week would invite just 5 people, we could have over 500 in attendance. Please make plans now to be there. If a teaching position or other obligation keeps you from being there at 8:00, please drop in whenever you can any time between 8:00 and 9:30.
NASS, Karen, What are you wearing? Should we not wear wool?
ReplyDeletechurchmouse said "NASS, Karen, What are you wearing? Should we not wear wool?"
ReplyDeleteOnly over your eyes...
FUNNY!!! As of this morning, I did break out the wool pants.
ReplyDeleteFrom the SavingBellevue site:
ReplyDeleteHas the Ad-Hoc Committee Overlooked your Question?
We have received email from people who did not get a response from the committee.
Please send the question to us.
If you have already asked the question and have received no reply only.
We will post it here for you.
Only those that sign there names and allow us to use it will be posted.
Please provide
1. Date asked committee.
2. Was it before a committee?
3. Name some of those present in the committee.
4. Was it in writing or oral.
5. Email it to questions@savingbellevue.com
just my opinion wrote:
ReplyDelete"churchmouse said 'NASS, Karen, What are you wearing? Should we not wear wool?'
Only over your eyes..."
Now, we have to leave something for the CC committee to do. Sheep blinders will be provided at the door.
NASS
This is my open letter to Bellevue - feel free to copy it and send to any and all Bellevue members:
ReplyDeleteDear Bellevue Member,
I would like to ask you a favor. Would you please attend the Communications Committee meeting this Sunday, December 3rd at 8:00 am. No one will ask you anything and you don't have to sign a roster to register your attendance. You also don't have to ask any questions unless you want to. Last week's attendance at the meeting was over 100 people. This week we'd like to double, triple even quadruple that number. Please forward this request to any and all Bellevue members. If people will just listen and then seek the truth for themselves, truth will be revealed. They don't have to take my word for it, or the blog or savingbellevue.com, but truth will be revealed.
Also, if you don't feel comfortable in asking people via email, will you make phone calls this weekend and invite people? I would do it for you if I could - feel free to send me any emails or phone numbers you wish and I promise to contact them.
Love in Jesus,
Karen Turk Marshall
Development Council
ReplyDeleteMid-America Seminary Development Council
Just a few of the 2005 members:
Mr. Harry Smith Collierville, Tennessee
Mr. Steve Tucker Cordova, Tennessee
Mr. David Coombs Collierville, Tennessee
Mr. John Calcote Cordova, Tennessee
Here are the articles of Faith they agreed to uphold.
From their ARTICLE OF FAITH.
Article VI: The Church
We believe that a New Testament church is a voluntary association of baptized believers in Christ who have covenanted together to follow the teachings of the New Testament in doctrine, worship, and practice. We believe that the only two church ordinances are baptism and the Lord’s Supper. We likewise believe that only those who are committed to Jesus Christ as Lord are scriptural subjects for baptism and that immersion is the only proper mode of baptism. We believe that the Lord’s Supper is a memorial to the Lord’s death. The bread symbolizes His body which was given for us. The fruit of the vine symbolizes His blood which was shed for us. We believe that a church is a democratic organization served by two types of officers, pastors or bishops and deacons.
Article VII: Civil Government
We believe that God established civil government. We likewise believe in the complete separation of church and state.
Article VIII: Baptist Distinctives
We are Baptists because we believe that Baptists stand for distinctive truths to which other denominations do not adhere. We believe that we cannot compromise these truths without being disloyal to our Lord and to His Word. We do seek to cooperate with all others who are committed to Jesus Christ as Lord.
Addendum: To Be Signed by All Professors
I do solemnly promise and engage not to inculcate, sanction, teach, or insinuate anything which shall contradict or contravene, either directly or implicitly, any element of the foregoing statement of religious beliefs. Now, therefore, the undersigned in the presence of God declares that he/she consents, agrees, and binds himself/herself to all of the foregoing without any reservation whatsoever. He/she further agrees that he/she will immediately notify in writing the administration of the Seminary should a change of any kind take place in his/her belief that is not in accord with this statement.
blessmewiththetruth,
ReplyDeleteDid they intend for some of those items to be accepted by our church or somebody elses?
There must be some sort of truth hindering force field when you cross the street from one side of Appling to the other.
A Commerial Appeal article aabout Harry Smoth and Steve Tucker
ReplyDeleteDecision-making skills earn honors for Schilling chief
By Mark Watson
During his 16 years of public accounting Harry Smith learned a lot of lessons that he would later apply to his own business.
As an accountant, Smith, now chairman and chief executive officer of Schilling Cos., was able to work with a variety of companies, from newspapers to real estate.
"I learned from every one of them," he said. "I used to say to myself, 'If I were doing it, I wouldn't do that,' or 'If I were doing this, I'd do this.'
"I got paid back for all that when I had to make all those decisions."
Those decisions helped earn him a place in the Society of Entrepreneurs, which will induct him and four others at a dinner and awards banquet on April 24 at the Holiday Inn at the University of Memphis.
Smith became chairman and CEO of Schilling Cos. in 1980, and he is now the principal owner.
Bob Weaver Jr., executive vice president of the Tennessee Automotive Association, said many people with strong entrepreneur skills are attracted to auto sales.
"You must have a good business sense and drive to succeed in a very tough, competitive environment," Weaver said. "You don't watch the clock as a dealer."
Weaver said auto dealers must constantly work to improve customer service.
"In that effort, creativity and adaptability are essential," he said. "That's the type of opportunities, in my opinion, entrepreneurs seek."
Smith started a paper route at age 9, which he continued until his early college years. Becoming a certified public accountant in 1967, he had car dealers and other businesses as clients and, as he says, "found out what not to do."
"I was from Florence, Ala., a 10-person accounting firm," Smith said. "All of a sudden, I was over here in charge of a company with a thousand employees. I have to give God credit, because that's when I really learned how to pray."
Today, Schilling Cos. includes Schilling Lincoln-Mercury and Schilling Jeep.
For a model of leadership, Smith looked to Rev. Adrian Rodgers, pastor of the 28,000-member Belle vue Baptist Church.
"In a sense, he is a kind of an entrepreneur," Smith said. "I have learned so much about life, about the Bible from him - and really, all of sound business principles can be found in the Bible.
"I used to go to the businessmen's lunch at 12 o'clock on Thursdays at Bellevue," he said. "I would leave there so pumped up and inspired."
Smith's business interests have included more than 10 auto dealerships, auto parts distribution, industrial engines, heating and cooling distribution, and Schilling Farms, a 448-acre planned business development in Collierville. Smith is in a partnership with Boyle Investments for the development of Schilling Farms.
With partner Steve Tucker, of Memphis's Tucker Saddlery, Smith recently embarked on a new business, western saddles. They acquired the nation's largest western saddle maker, Circle Y Saddles, of Yoakum, Texas.
The Society of Entrepreneurs also emphasizes new members' commitment to the community. Smith has served several years on the board of the Regional Medical Center at Memphis, and now serves on the board of Baptist Memorial Health Care Corp., and the Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary, for example. He also serves as the Tennessee Automotive Association's regional vice president.
"I don't have any thoughts about retiring," Smith said. "I love what I do."
I believe that the punctuation is incorrect at the end of Artcle VI: The Church.
ReplyDeleteThe meaning would be more appropriatley stated as:
We believe that a church is a democratic organization served by two. Types of offiers: pastors or bishops and deacons.
Tim said...
ReplyDeleteblessmewiththetruth,
Did they intend for some of those items to be accepted by our church or somebody elses?
There must be some sort of truth hindering force field when you cross the street from one side of Appling to the other.
Tim, it`s interesting isn`t it!
Article VIII: Baptist Distinctives
ReplyDeleteWe are Baptists because we believe that Baptists stand for distinctive truths to which other denominations do not adhere. We believe that we cannot compromise these truths without being disloyal to our Lord and to His Word. We do seek to cooperate with all others who are committed to Jesus Christ as Lord.
Very difficult to square the above language with the $25,000 gift to FUMC given their support of abortion and gay marriage. A gift for which neither the finance committee nor the Senior Pastor who initiated the idea for the gift has apologized for, much less take action to prevent a repeat.
How long will they wait to publicly admit their mistake, ask for forgiveness and implement policy changes for future donations?
Will they ever follow Mr. Vandersteed and admit it was a mistake?
Will they ever make any policy changes designed to improve their stewardship?
Will they admit they didn't even pray and ask guidance or research the recipient before they make a gift like this?
Lack of accountability.
Here`s the Ray Saba letter
ReplyDeleteBellevue Baptist Church, the once beautiful bride adorned with rare gems of integrity and respect, clothed in fine linens of humility and grace, now seems like a battered sweetheart. Her once God-given lovely countenance is now so beaten and bruised that only those who know how lovely she once was would weep and lament over her. Her once glowing and welcoming smile has become a mediocre gesture of make belief courtesy, and those who do not know her intimately cannot discern the painful groaning of her heart. That big heart of hers which once beat with contagious enthusiasm and love for her own, now seems to be slowly wearing down.
Sunday morning, Nov.19, as I approached to enter the door of the church, the familiar face of the greeting deacon at the door was more somber than usual. After the normal handshake and greeting, this man of God I have known for decades looked me in the eye and said: "I resigned my office as a deacon; I told my deacon vice-chairman that I could not stay as a deacon."
By no means is this isolated. More and more deacon brothers are feeling the burden of their own conscience as the Holy Spirit weighs down upon them to put their allegiance priorities in order. Peter's words to the Sanhedrin "WE OUGHT TO OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MEN" have begun to echo not only in the conscience of our deacon brothers but also in the soul of BBC.
That same morning, as you know the deacon body was to show their support and allegiance to Pastor Gaines during the two morning services, this never took place. The decision to do that was reversed by Chuck Taylor, chairman of the deacons and for whatever reason the event was aborted. Remember, the leadership standing behind the pulpit, told us that the deacon body “unanimously” voted on this show of support! Could the reason have been that "that 'unanimous' was not that unanimous"!?
This is not the first time BBC leadership has reversed its own decisions. I will refer to two other decisions they reversed that affected me personally:
1- Their decision when they came to my house and demanded that I stop teaching my SS Class. That decision was actually reversed four times. (1) NO! You cannot be allowed to teach.
(2) That's OK You can teach. (3) NO! I cannot allow you to teach, the Communication Committee placed you “FIRST” on their list to talk to. (My response was: The only person I will be willing to meet with was the Pastor; which never came to pass). (4) “YES! keep on teaching and keep doing what you’re doing until you hear from us“. All this took place in a span of a week to 10 days. I am still teaching. The men in my SS Class and I say: “Thank you Larry Ray. “
2- When I questioned the leadership, Larry Ray and Mark Gates regarding the appropriateness of BBC advertising the I2Memphis in the Memphis Flyer they not only did not see anything wrong with this ; they actually defended their position. When I asked how they could spend GOD'S money to support a sleazy magazine like that; they said, “We’re trying to reach the dark section of the city”. To that, I said: “Then why don’t you advertise in the Playboy magazine." Last time I checked The Memphis Flyer (Four weeks ago) there was no I2Memphis ad there. Thank you Larry Ray and Mark Gates. (By the way, I learned about that ad through a co-worker who himself is a Christian and he too could not believe BBC used that magazine.
By the way, since we're talking about advertising, I find it irresistible but to ask “How much money has BBC spent so far on advertising to introduce Dr. Gaines to the Memphis community?
Perhaps the inarguable example of “Crisis in Leadership” at BBC is their latest expression of generosity when the leadership, whether on its own, or, at the recommendation of Dr. Gaines donated $25,000 to a Memphis church that was destroyed by fire. The paradox here is the fact this church teaches and advocates two of the most contentious issues that BBC is Biblically and dogmatically against; namely ABORTION and HOMOSEXUALITY.
When this issue was brought to the leadership attention, their answer was “We didn’t know that church taught these things”. Question: Who among us lay people so naive that would give $25,000 of our hard-earned money without first making sure where this money was going?
I dare answer: None! But this decision was made by financial experts and financial planners who are experts in this field and whom I personally respect. Moreover, while this blunder was recognized and the person involved has graciously assumed full responsibility, the fact remains we all know where "The Buck Stops".
Dr. Gaines, would you Sir, gracefully reimburse our church her $25,000?
The above pattern of indecision and wrong decisions on the part of our leadership has thrust this Mega Church into a mega state of chaotic confusion. On the surface, there seems to be a lot of “LEADERSHIP ACTIVITY” ; but in reality it is nothing more than a perpetual preoccupation of (1) devising strategies to control and mitigate damages, and (2) mobilizing and shoring up a continuously eroding support for Pastor Gaines.
From the Sept. 24th “Info Meeting“, to Dr. Gaines displaying his obvious disdain to his own sheep of BBC when his own words gushed out of his mouth the day following in which he made malicious mockery of every one who opposed him at BBC. There at First Baptist, in Union City, TN. Sept. 25, 2006, the Senior Pastor of BBC with his fiery tongue lashed out, well prepared, and premeditated shameful words that gave a clear picture of what his character really is and how he really feels about BBC. And yet the Leadership said nothing. The majority of the deacons said nothing (at that time), and even some applauded him. What a shame?
Oh! Bellevue.....Oh! Bellevue....I lament for you precious friend!
They moved from the “Ad hoc Committee” to the “Communications Committee” They skillfully drafted the lengthy letter of “FAQ” which they sent to every Bellevue family. They attempted to meet with the concerned members both individually and personally and in groups.
No one can deny the Leadership is putting forth great efforts to get things resolved; for which they are to be commended. No one can deny these leaders have served us faithfully in the past, for which we are thankful. No one can deny their faithfulness and loyalty to our beloved former Pastor Rogers.
But equally candid : No one can deny the fact this Leadership has accomplished nothing. Their activities center around meeting behind close doors to concoct ways to insulate, isolate, and protect Dr. Steve Gaines, not realizing he has become not only their own major liability but Bellevue’s as a whole.
As we examine the present state of BBC we find a church that is on the brink collapsing. Its foundations are excellent and very, sound and very strong; yet its walls are cracking.
BELLEVUE FAMILY,
We see our church in desperate need of serious and drastic repairs!
We see our leadership groping for solutions but finding none!
We see our church hurting and crying for help!
We see our Pastor with ears to hear but does not hear!
BELLEVUE FAMILY,
WILL YOU DO THE RIGHT THING?
DR. STEVE GAINES,
WILL YOU DO THE RIGHT THING?
Respectfully and prayerfully submitted,
Your Brother in Christ,
Riad, "Ray" Saba
November, 30, 2006
November 12, 1998
ReplyDeleteBirmingham Weekly Fights Church-led Boycott
Inks Distribution Deal After Merchants Remove Newsracks.
By Cory Zurowski
First-year association member Birmingham Weekly is doing its AAN brethren proud.
The young 20,000-circulation Alabama alternative has been blackballed for much of this year in Gardendale, a suburb northeast of Birmingham.
The paper was booted from the conservative, middle class bedroom community when local merchants caved in to demands from a small band of activists. The group -- which included Gardendale Mayor Kenneth Clemons, the Church at Peachtree's Greg Davis and Pastor Steve Gaines of the 5,000-member First Baptist Church of Gardendale -- was so offended by the Weekly's content that they threatened to boycott local businesses that distribute the paper.
By mid-summer, the half-dozen or so Birmingham Weekly boxes that had flecked the suburb of 15,000 people had vanished.
But Publisher Tina Savas and her one-year-old newsweekly didn't quietly slink away. Late last month, the Weekly made a defiant return to Gardendale -- in a big way. Savas landed a contract with National Media Systems to distribute her paper at the local Wal-Mart and Food World. The Weekly also made the personal pissing match its Oct. 22 cover story.
"We felt we needed to make a strong statement," explains Staff Writer Tom Spencer, who wrote the story. "Tina's a fighter and this whole thing got her blood up. She didn't want us to be pushed around."
Adds Savas: "The goal here is to have to paper available in Gardendale. That's why we chose to do what we did. We needed to continue to fight for the Bill of Rights and freedom of speech."
The first signs that trouble was brewing in Gardendale came late last spring. The paper started receiving phone from Gardendale businesses that hosted Weekly newsracks -- Wall St. Deli, a grocery store, a pawn shop and a hot dog stand. They wanted the boxes removed.
"At first, we just considered the whole thing annoying since [the Weekly] was growing so much elsewhere," says Editor Tara Hulen. "No one [from the churches] complained to us directly, but all our distributors in Gardendale were saying the same thing: Some ministers in town were telling the businesses with our boxes that the Weekly was a danger to their children and the community, and if they didn't get rid of them their businesses would be boycotted."
Gardendale businesses were also pressured by public officials. Police Chief Wallace Campbell told Spencer that the mayor had instructed him to call a local business owner: "I contacted the owner of [a shopping center where there was a Weekly newsrack] and told him that the mayor's office had a complaint about the free publication being available to minor children."
Savas and Spencer both say the Weekly was targeted primarily because the church leaders and city officials were offended by the paper's gay personals and ads for 900-number sex lines.
"In my interview with Steve Gaines, he told me that... they do oppose the same sex advertising," says Spencer. "When I talked to [Greg] Davis, he claimed that the child of one of parishioners -- a 10-year-old boy -- had picked up the Weekly and was influenced to [seek out] pornography after reading it and had called the sex line."
Spencer says the activists were also offended by the "anti-Christian" slant of some of the paper's stories: "Davis said he disapproved of the same sex ads and also pointed to one of our stories where we examined churches' roles as big business and how people were injecting Christianity into their commerce. He called it 'blasphemy.'"
Calls to Greg Davis, Steve Gaines, Mayor Kenneth Clemons and Police Chief Wallace Campbell were not returned.
A few months after the Weekly was banished from Gardendale, Savas asked her former distribution partners to bring the boxes back, but they all declined.
"The people out there live in fear of the church," she says. "I can understand [the businesses] wanting to stop [having our newsracks] because if they didn't, the church would have 100 people boycotting them tomorrow."
According to Savas, the Weekly has received calls and letters from Gardendale residents who support the paper. It was because of those people that she brought the paper back to the suburb.
"I believe in reader-friendly distribution -- and that means making the Weekly easily accessible.... We have readers in Gardendale and I don't want them to have to drive 10 miles to get a Weekly," she says.
The Memphis Flyer contains personals in the following categories
ReplyDeletewomen > women
women > men
men > women
men > men
no strings attached
i saw you
Let`s compare the two news papers that Steve Gaines has been involved with:
ReplyDeleteBirmingham Weekly- Pastor Gaines leads Gardendale to boycott the EVIL gay personals-
Memphis Flyer- Pastor Gaines leads Bellevue Baptist Church to supports their business by purchasing ads even though they have gay personals
What is the difference in giving out money to FUMC or the Memphis Flyer?
ReplyDeleteFUMC- Stever Gaines leads Bellevue Baptist Church to give $25000.00 to FUMC even though they support abortion, homosexuality, gay marriage, women pastors, ect
Memphis Flyer- Steve Gaines leads Bellevue Baptist Church to spend $$$ for ads in a paper which openly supports and encourages men to romance men and women to romance women while also supporting other vulgar and anti-Christ behavior.
blessme,
ReplyDeleteI'd love to hear more - can you email me please?
Karen
I went to look for myself - these are some archive articles mentioning BBC, from The Memphis Flyer where we are apparantly paying them to advertise i2 - search for the truth yourself ....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/Archive?searchPhrase=bellevue+baptist+church
What is the difference in giving out money to FUMC or the Memphis Flyer?
ReplyDeleteUmmm...One is openly hostile to orthodox Christianity while the other is more subtle in it's hostility?
The Memphis Flyer can be found online. On today`s page dated December 1, 2006 they have a menu topside. Click Flyermarket. Whne you get there you will see "Personals" listed at the bottom of the page.
ReplyDeleteI just called the Memphis Flyer Advertising office and they told me that they still run personals for homosexual men to men and women to women. They don`t have any ads in the paper this week, they said, because they didn`t have room for them but last week they ran them and this is still an active part of their paper.
when will this stuff ever end???? what is the deal with the Memphis Flyer ads. Just more of you TRYING very very hard to find anyhting you can wrong. Just more of you showing your true feelings for Brother Steve.
ReplyDeleteVERY VERY sad!
there is NOTHING wrong with Bellevue putting ads inthe Memphis Flyer. nothing. the ad was well done and if ANYONE gets something bad out of the ads and the pictures in the Bellevue ads, that makes me wonder and wonder big time. we are suppose to be reaching the lost. you do not do that by posting in a Christian magazine. the Flyer has been around a while and is read by many college age students. does it contain ads I do not agree with, sure, but what in the world does that have to do with Bellevue and it's ads???
why are you not going crazy over TV spots? what about out service on TV? there are horrible shows and commercials on the same TV stations.
why not go crazy over running ads in the Commercial Appeal? they have the same kind of ads that the Flyer does. we have run ads in the Appeal many times over the years.
can someone please answer to this??? why?
Birmingham Weekly- Free to public
ReplyDeleteThe Memphis Flyer- Free to public
Mr & Mrs. Schilling are the past owners of all the former Schilling car dealeships, and have past away a while back. They had no children and they worked with a charming CPA from Alabama.
ReplyDeleteHowever, ask Mrs. Schilling sister what she "knows" and "feels" about the sale of her sister's dealerships years ago.
hisservant-1,
ReplyDeleteWill you meet me at the Communications Committee meeting on Sunday morning at 8:00 am? Please?
Karen
cjesusnme said...
ReplyDeleteSchilling said...
Mr & Mrs. Schilling are the past owners of all the former Schilling car dealeships, and have past away a while back. They had no children and they worked with a charming CPA from Alabama.
However, ask Mrs. Schilling sister what she "knows" and "feels" about the sale of her sister's dealerships years ago.
Hmmm.....could we be talking about Mr. Harry Smith?
How can we get in touch with her?
2:32 PM, December 01, 2006
cjesusnme,
Wil post here Monday afternoon and ask yourself.
now you are trying to drag Harry Smith through the mud again. very sad!
ReplyDeleteKaren said...
ReplyDeletehisservant-1,
Will you meet me at the Communications Committee meeting on Sunday morning at 8:00 am? Please?
Karen
2:33 PM, December 01, 2006
Karen said...
ReplyDeleteblessme,
I'd love to hear more - can you email me please?
Karen
Careful Hisservant, this is a woman who LOVES Gossip and hearsays. Your conversation will end up on a blog.
1 tim 5:13 or blog to blog
1 Tim 1:6
2 tim 2:16
Matt 12:36 (for the wool comments)
1 Peter 4:11 (both sides guilty of this, so it appears)
Karen,
ReplyDeleteThe other day the Holy Spirit was speaking to you and you did not heed His calling.
Someone took Abigail out of context (bad hermeneutics) and you fell for it.
NASS,
ReplyDeleteYou are a rock star. You are enjoying the attention you are recieving, for the first time in your life you did something that created a cultic following.
Matt 12:36 you will answer to, for instigating this format, and the occassional careless words you write.
The world of blogging will watch, and examine themselves.
Here is the test of what I am saying is true, if this is just my imagination, non of this will come true in the near future, if this is of the Holy Spirit, take heed.
1. You will lose big time on an investment.
2. Your job will be in jeopardy
3. Family situations will arise
4. Severe health situation will arise
Beware. I would walk around in fear, and degrade or delete this post so you will feel better.
To the rest of you, watch NASS's life and take heed.
Pastor Randy,
ReplyDeleteI'm inviting hisservant to a meeting set up by our Communications Committee for OUR CHURCH! Please stay out of my conversation if you have nothing productive say. How dare you come in here and accuse me of being a gossiper. You're tempting hisservant to gossip about me with you, are you not? I've never gossiped or spread a rumor without coming back here and apoligizing for it when I found I our I was fed misinformation. I've never, not once, caused a firestorm on this blog about anything I've said. I've asked for help with discernment and you turn this on me? I feel sorry for your sheep if this is the way your treat a total stranger 1000 miles away from you.
My joke to my friends (yes, we're friends in real life) about wool or whatever are just that - jokes.
Karen
To "Pastor":
ReplyDeleteYou need to clarify whether you are Pastor Gaines or not! If you are, then we will know who to attribute this "Prophecy" to if it comes to pass. If it doesn't come to pass then we will know who the false prophet is!! There is a warning for false prophets in Deut. 18.
Pastor said:
"Here is the test of what I am saying is true, if this is just my imagination, non of this will come true in the near future, if this is of the Holy Spirit, take heed.
1. You will lose big time on an investment.
2. Your job will be in jeopardy
3. Family situations will arise
4. Severe health situation will arise
Beware. I would walk around in fear, and degrade or delete this post so you will feel better.
To the rest of you, watch NASS's life and take heed."
Nehemiah said:
"A warning for all of those so opposed to Pastor Gaines. Remember he is the Lord's anointed servant. Something not taken lightly in the eyes of God...
...“I have found David My servant; With My holy oil I have anointed him,"
And Hisservant wrote:
"Nehemiah: I agree and have posted this several times. Brother Steve is God's anointed and it is VERY SCARY to see amd hear how some talk about him and even to him."
RESPONSE:
Pastor Gaines is not "the" Annointed One (Jesus), or an Old Testament king, or a High Priest, or a prophet in the biblical sense. His office at times may be prophetic as he declares the Word of God, but he does not foretell the future or give new revelation.
He is a pastor which is an office to which he was called by God to serve and lead Christ's sheep. He was also called by BBC and should be accountable to the sheep.
There is nothing wrong with church members disagreeing with their pastor. The pastor should listen carefully to them and never bully them. They should be able to comunicate with him without a committee, without constant threats of sickness or death or fear mongering of the type quoted above.
Yes they should be respectful of his office. But he is to be accountable to the congregation and he is not above the Word of God (Mt. 18).
All of the members of the congregation are priests. In that they are equal to him and have the same access to God. The sheep and all they have belong to Jesus--not to the pastor. The pastor is an undershepherd entrusted with caring for ALL of the sheep.
I'm so glad that Jesus doesn't send any of His sheep away from His fold (John 6:37).
We follow Jesus because we know He truly loves us. When sheep do not follow an undershepherd closely, perhaps they have reasons that would interest the True Shepherd.
Karen,
ReplyDeleteI've never gossiped or spread a rumor without coming back here and apoligizing for it when I found I our I was fed misinformation.
And the definition of Gossip is?
1 Tim 5:19 is a present tense imperative mood, it is a clear command.
RE: "Pastor said...."
ReplyDeleteIf I did not know better, I would think this man was talking from a "psychic hotline" somewhere. What's up with that kind of talk from a pastor?
I would think that being a pastor of church would be a full time job and being a busybody would not be something that his flock would appreciate??
"Pastor"
ReplyDeleteIf you are not the shepherd of these sheep, then go beat on your own sheep. These have been beaten enough already. They are tired of the condescension and threats. Don't come on here with that handle and start threatening the posters.
Hey y'all,
ReplyDeleteI've sent an email to Randy McDonald (ie pastor) to verify this "pastor" today is who we think it is. This "pastor" today has a profile that was opened in November and has only 34 views. NASS, can you verify Randy's profile had more than that?
Thanks! Karen
25years
ReplyDeletePsalm 119:103-104
Hey folks,
ReplyDeleteI don't know about ya'll, but I am ready for a Baptist nap! I shall wrap up in my woolie blanket and dig in for the evening. BBrrrrr, it's cold outside!
Dear Karen,
ReplyDeleteThank you for so much for your post.I was there last Sunday and was one of the first ten people thru the door.when My former Sunday school teacher Richard Emerson came in he shook hands with some of the men on the Committee.Then one of the Committee members would not rise to shake hands.This man had on a name tag it read "David Coombs"....Then Mr.Coombs said to Richard Emerson with a cold stare:"Are you running for politcal office?"With a very belittling tone.To me I find this unacceptable for a man who says he is coming on staff soon at Belleve.
"Pastor"
ReplyDeleteAre you Steve Gaines? Yes or no?
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 16:27:16 -0600
ReplyDeleteFrom xxxx@verizon.net
Subject: RE: Note from Randy
Its 4:26 and its NOT me. I haven't put anything on in quite a few days.
Randy
TO PASTOR - GO AWAY! YOU'RE NOT FOOLING ANYBODY!
"pastor"... we are waiting... yes or no?
ReplyDeletecjesus,
ReplyDeleteSee my email from Randy McDonald. It's not him. :)
If you are not Gaines, then I'm sure he would not appreciate you using that handle on this site!
ReplyDeleteYour silence implies that this is Gaines... If it were not, then your identity would still be secret. Yes or no??
ReplyDeleteTo all of you who know and love me so dearly, I am NOT the guy signing on as "pastor." I will always sign on as "RM" and am not afraid to sign my own name (unlike many on here). If you want, email me and I'll give you my cell number and you can call and we can visit.
ReplyDeleteYou guys do need to calm down a bit in here... Its getting a little rabid.
Ignore the "pastor" guys.
ReplyDeleteHe is a just another troll trying to bait you into an argument.
Fall,
ReplyDeleteIf that did happen, and I believe what you say, then David Coombs will bring more of the same poor Christian qualities to the Bellevue table. The way it stands right now, the men in power are ALL wealthy, arrogant and ignorant of the needs of the people that the Lord has given them to care for. I cannot help but believe that the great God who saved us will allow us to be scattered and there not be repercussions within the church body. This type of talk by any staffer, let alone a millionaire in a leadership position, is uncalled for and reflects a heart that is cold to the needs of his fellow Christian. He will be ashamed at the coming of the Bridegroom.
25 years,
ReplyDeleteYour question sounds like a desperate question from a man who does not have clear conscience.
Psalms 26:2
Heb 13:18
Do your posts honestly reflect honor?
I don't think so ben wonderin... whoever it is knows Greek... it's a pastor... We just need to know whether it is Bellevue's pastor or not.
ReplyDeletemom4
ReplyDelete1 Tim 5:19, very clear
fall,
ReplyDeleteemail me and we'll arrage to meet before the meeting Sunday, ok?
Invite everyone you know to come to this week's meeting!
Thanks!
karen
pastor...
ReplyDeleteMy conscience is very clear. As a matter of fact I sleep well at night. This is not a game. If you are not Gaines, then say so. You could be accused of impersonation otherwise. Are you Gaines or not?
pastor...
ReplyDeleteso far as honor is concerned.... I don't go around threatening women. Do you? Especially a sister in Christ!
25 years
ReplyDeleteIs the Holy Spirit speaking to you?
1 Tim 5:19 is very clear
To all,
ReplyDeleteI've said it before and I'll say it again, do not miss Sunday night's service. I've been told by a deacon friend that there will be a meeting after the service. What will be talked about? I don't know. Will Steve Gaines speak? I don't know. Will this meeting absolutely take place? I don't know - who knows what's workiing at BBC. Please don't shoot me on Monday if I'm wrong on this, but this is what I've been told.
"pastor" Gaines I presume? Well, so far as the number of witnesses go... Mark Sharp, Riad Saba, and the whole audience here that heard you mock the congregation at Union City.
ReplyDelete25+years,
ReplyDeleteThanks for defending me. You truly do have honor.
Karen
Pastor,
ReplyDeleteNow that you have gotten people all worked up thinking I am you perhaps it would be good if you would simply put your REAL NAME and perhaps your phone number and email. I think that should be a requirement for EVERYONE who writes on this or any other blog.
If you can't stand up for what you wrote then you shouldn't write it.
To "Pastor":
ReplyDeleteYou need to clarify whether you are Pastor Gaines or not! If you are, then we will know who to attribute this "Prophecy" to if it comes to pass. If it doesn't come to pass then we will know who the false prophet is!! There is a warning for false prophets in Deut. 18.
Pastor said:
"Here is the test of what I am saying is true, if this is just my imagination, non of this will come true in the near future, if this is of the Holy Spirit, take heed.
1. You will lose big time on an investment.
2. Your job will be in jeopardy
3. Family situations will arise
4. Severe health situation will arise
Beware. I would walk around in fear, and degrade or delete this post so you will feel better.
To the rest of you, watch NASS's life and take heed."
Some of the congregation has awakened to the reality that our church is elder ruled by a close knit group of men who manage to be appointed to key positions year after year. The congregation needs to be awakened to this. I agree with Bin Wonderin:
ReplyDeleteWe need:
1. An apology to the congregation for mocking us at Union City. After all, some of us didn't fall off the cabbage truck yesterday!
2. An admission the cheerleader tickets are not a legit moving expense and reimbursement to BBC.
3. An admission Dr. Gaines should have never given $25k to FUMC and an explanation of policy changes to prevent a repeat.
4. A policy for open books on Holy land trips and no overcharging of members. Free tickets for the host and wife are fine but not for anybody else
5. A quarterly business meeting with open mike Q&A with each committee chairman. Transcripts on the web within a week
**The current bylaws mention "monthly" business meetings! When were they changed??
6. A transparent committee selection process.
7. A good updated set of bylaws similar to GBC.
8. The signing of a public conflict of interest form for any member that has any business contract to provide services to the church. These people should be recused from committees that review bids for their services.
9. No church credit cards. Pay your own way and then turn in an expense report like I do at my job.
AND I would like to add...
10. A business meeting in accord with Matthew 18 to deal with the issues that remain related to Mark Sharpe and "the Dream"... AND any other loose ends that should have been dealt with months ago!!
11. The END of heavy handed dealing with ministers, staff, and members.
12. A whistle blower policy for ministers, staff, and members. Also:
13. Full disclosure of ministerial compensation: salary + benefit breakdown, etc.
14. Much greater congregational oversight of the current budget with a transparent policy for consideration of non-budgeted expenditures exceeding a reasonable amount.
15. Forgiveness for those in leadership who have allowed this to deteriorate to this point--AND consequences for their actions.
16. Building prayer buildings or any other type of building should be brought through proper channels to the congregation for prayerful consideration--not coerced "rubber stamping."
By the way, Dr. Rogers taught us quite a bit about prayer. As a matter of fact, I believe all of the current buildings ARE prayer buildings already. He and Dr. Whitmire also taught us quite a bit about worship also... but that's another topic.
17. Bellevue needs to reject Warrenism fully and finally.
18. Congregational nomination of and election of all of the Board of Directors as called for in the 1929 bylaws.
All in my opinion as usual.
Revival, reform, congregational oversight... for there is level ground at Calvary and "he who would be great among you shall be the servant of all."
pastor,
ReplyDeleteI have an email address attached to my profile - if you are a man of honor, you will email me so we can settle our differences off this blog. We can meet this weekend.
Thanks Karen.
ReplyDeleteIf Nass's life flourishes, I will praise God with him. I really dont know if NASS is taking the right approach or not, but I do know human nature.
ReplyDeleteI do not know if that was a prophecy or not, I was praying before and as I wrote.
1 Tim 5:24,
I just post scriptures the Lord brings to my mind.
"pastor" said:
ReplyDelete"If Nass's life flourishes, I will praise God with him. I really dont know if NASS is taking the right approach or not, but I do know human nature.
I do not know if that was a prophecy or not, I was praying before and as I wrote.
1 Tim 5:24,
I just post scriptures the Lord brings to my mind."
RESPONSE:
You are obviously not a prophet. NASS is not a "him." You do, however, need to say whether you are Gaines or not.
YES OR NO?
Karen,
ReplyDeleteWe do not have any differences, The Lord will make everything evident and clear, just wait on him.
1 Cor 4:6-8
FallethNtheDitch said...
ReplyDeleteDear Karen,
Thank you for so much for your post.I was there last Sunday and was one of the first ten people thru the door.when My former Sunday school teacher Richard Emerson came in he shook hands with some of the men on the Committee.Then one of the Committee members would not rise to shake hands.This man had on a name tag it read "David Coombs"....Then Mr.Coombs said to Richard Emerson with a cold stare:"Are you running for politcal office?"With a very belittling tone.To me I find this unacceptable for a man who says he is coming on staff soon at Belleve.
4:31 PM, December 01, 2006
FallethNtheDitch,
Sounds like our new Associate Pastor David Coombs was pretty hard and rude to Richard. I Think David Coombs needs to apologize to Richard Emerson. What else do you know?
By the way... prophecy ended with the Book of Revelation. If you say that you don't know whether or not it was a prophecy, well... I can help you with that. It was not! Are you Gaines?? YES OR NO?
ReplyDelete25 years,
ReplyDeleteIt is frustrating when people post anonymously isn’t it.
Perhaps that is why face to face is so important, it does prevent a lot of gossip.
1 Cor 14:35, examine the words very carefully and use good hermeneutics.
Could FUMC provide some wisdom to that scripture?
God Bless you Mom4.Yes Before God as my Witness it was True.I am at work now but will not remain silent any more.TRUTH WILL PREVAIL.Whats said in secret will be shouted on the rooftops.I Love the way Dr.Rodgers would say THE BIBLE SAYS....I say To you church TAKE HEART TRUTH WILL PREVAIL!!!
ReplyDelete"pastor"... I read the verse... what are you trying to say? Was that verse given because the moderator is a woman? If so, we're not in church right now. Can she talk?
ReplyDeleteDear ones,
ReplyDeleteI have to go eat and miss all this excitement.
Pastor--email me when you get a chance. Would like to talk to you.
c-b-c@verizon.net
Thanks,
RM
"pastor"
ReplyDeleteI believe that you may be S. Gaines. You are obviously hurt, bothered, ticked off, etc. Why not meet with your sheep instead of hiding behind a comittee? You said face to face was better... How about arranging that?
25years,
ReplyDeletePray on it, chew on it and think about it, start with Genesis and go forward.
It would be best no to respond to the Pastor.
ReplyDelete"pastor" are you or are you not S. Gaines? YES OR NO??
ReplyDeleteFolks,
ReplyDeleteI don't think we're dealing with a troll.
Tes, another troll, that's all
ReplyDeleteDo not answer (pastor)
Pastor said:
ReplyDelete"Here is the test of what I am saying is true, if this is just my imagination, none of this will come true in the near future, if this is of the Holy Spirit, take heed.
1. You will lose big time on an investment.
2. Your job will be in jeopardy
3. Family situations will arise
4. Severe health situation will arise
Beware. I would walk around in fear, and degrade or delete this post so you will feel better.
To the rest of you, watch NASS's life and take heed."
This seems like a prophecy that pastor could make come true. Why is it that I am suddenly scared?
Am I wrong to be concerned that one of my sisters might be physically harmed for someone to prove a point?
Dear Lord, please help us!
Pastor,
ReplyDeleteplease delete youe remarks. You need help.
2 Tim 1:7
ReplyDeleteFear is a response of feeling inadequate in a given situation
knowledge...
ReplyDeleteyou are new... you know very little about this board... or you know enough to divert attention away from someone else. just my opinion.
Pastor,
ReplyDeleteAre you from the Middle East??
I suspect we may need to e-mail this to the police.
ReplyDeleteFear is a gift from God, and a right response to Him, pastor.
Matthew 18
ReplyDeleteConcerning the need for a regular, fair, and open business meeting:
Some have been calling for Mt. 18 since the beginning of these problems related to Mark Sharpe, Riad Saba, etc. Others have said either that Mt. 18 had not been followed, did not apply, or did not apply to the pastor. But, no one is above the Word of God.
The quotation comes from a time when there was a similar problem. Luther brought charges against the Pope; however, in Luther's day the Pope controlled any attmpt to bring about a free, impartial forum to resolve the differences that existed. The Pope said that he was above the tempral law, or that his interpretation of the scripture was the true interpretation, or when any attempt was made to call a council the Pope claimed to be the only one with power to call a council.
Bellevue is in a similar mess. There may be legal matters that need to be dealt with. There are those saying that Mt. 18 is not the way to handle these problems. All that is happening seems to be the current leader(s) blocking attempts at a scriptural forum.
Luther believed that it was necessary for true believers to do whatever was in their power to see to it that such a scriptural, free, forum that would seek the truth be established.
Since the biblical process was short-circuited by leadership, similar forums have popped up on the internet.
Still, we need Mt. 18 to be exercised. And we need regular, quarterly business meetings so that the membership does not remain voiceless. In my opinion as usual.
Martin Luther refers to Matthew 18
Address to the Christian Nobility
of the German Nation
(1520)
The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.
First, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.
Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.
Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope ...
Now may God help us, and give us one of those trumpets that overthrew the walls of Jericho, so that we may blow down these walls of straw and paper, and that we may set free our Christian rods for the chastisement of sin, and expose the craft and deceit of the devil, so that we may amend ourselves by punishment and again obtain God's favour.
.... The third wall falls of itself, as soon as the first two have fallen; for if the Pope acts contrary to the Scriptures, we are bound to stand by the Scriptures to punish and to constrain him, according to Christ's commandment . 'tell it unto the Church' (Matt. xviii. 15-17). . . . If then I am to accuse him before the Church, I must collect the Church together. . . .Therefore when need requires, and the Pope is a cause of offence to Christendom, in these cases whoever can best do so, as a faithful member of the whole body, must do what he can to procure a true free council.
Could it be we have Pat Robertson here with his "word of knowledge" 8-ball?
ReplyDeletetn_lizzie
ReplyDeleteI agree... maybe the feds can uncover who "pastor" is... He sure isn't confirming or denying that he is SG.
If any of that does happen, then they will know how to find out who posted those things.
Maybe we have Rev. Gene Scott on with us.
ReplyDeleteallofgrace... they spelled hermeneutics right and showed some sign of knowing some Greek... I think it is a pastor... and could be Gaines. just my opinion.
ReplyDeletetn_lizzie,
ReplyDeleteDon't let this guy scare you..there are no modern day prophets who predict the future...the canon is closed...we need no new revelation. He's blowing smoke.
Move on to something else and do not respond to "Pastor"
ReplyDeleteknowledge.... are you also "pastor"?? Just blew through today huh? Board... I checked on knowledge the first two times... since Dec....
ReplyDeleteDon't look behind the curtain... the great and powerful... oops... wrong show.
ReplyDeleteAllofgrace,
ReplyDeleteYou are exactly correct, as usual.
If this guy is indeed our pastor, he has finally fallen off the cabbage truck.
To "Pastor":
ReplyDeleteYou need to clarify whether you are Pastor Gaines or not! If you are, then we will know who to attribute this "Prophecy" to if it comes to pass. If it doesn't come to pass then we will know who the false prophet is!! There is a warning for false prophets in Deut. 18.
Pastor said:
"Here is the test of what I am saying is true, if this is just my imagination, non of this will come true in the near future, if this is of the Holy Spirit, take heed.
1. You will lose big time on an investment.
2. Your job will be in jeopardy
3. Family situations will arise
4. Severe health situation will arise
Beware. I would walk around in fear, and degrade or delete this post so you will feel better.
To the rest of you, watch NASS's life and take heed."
What's the latest on the Sunday morning CC meeting. Is anyone going or is it still happening?
ReplyDeleteWhew! That was fun - NOT!
ReplyDeletePastor,
We (you and I) have an issue that has not yet been resolved. You said "Karen, Careful Hisservant, this is a woman who LOVES Gossip and hearsays. Your conversation will end up on a blog."
You don't know me and if you do I wish you would reveal yourself. You called me a gossip and you owe me a apology. You also owe an apology to this group for causing havoc. Im not a Bible scholar - but I do know this - I went looking for truth and I've found it. If you wish to dispute me, you go ahead. How is it gossip when the topic of which you are speaking has been apologized for? Case in point: The $25,000 donation to FUMC - this was apologized for by Wayne Vandersteeg last Sunday morning - how is talking about on this blog "gossip". I find your words to others on this blog highly offensive and I want an apology, sir.
Karen
The devil himself can quote scripture...probably parse a little greek..and spell hermeneutics...I'm still not impressed 25+yrs@bbc.
ReplyDelete25 years+,
ReplyDeleteCheck this out - I don't know about 1 or 3, but #2 - do you think Dr. Gaines job is in jeopardy and #4 - doesn't he have Myastania Gravis, which he contracted at Gardendale? Sounds like pastor knows of which he speaks :)
1. You will lose big time on an investment.
2. Your job will be in jeopardy
3. Family situations will arise
4. Severe health situation will arise
knowledge, it is happening and we want you to come and bring all your friends!
ReplyDeleteThanks! Karen
Karen,
ReplyDeleteI will come and ask others too,thanks. I will come armed with my questions.
knowledge,
ReplyDeleteGreat! Don't forget it's at 8:00 am - the bulletin has been saying 8:30.
YAY! Karen (turning cartwheels for Jesus - again!)
Karen,
ReplyDeletewhoever "pastor" was... there was no denial that he was SG. I find that very strange. Don't you?
25+,
ReplyDeleteYeah and he refused to meet with me and has not yet emailed me.
You held in good there though. Wonder if he'll come back for Round 2?
Karen
Just getting warmed up... Not even sweating... Calm, cool, conscience tranquil... his serve.
ReplyDelete25+,
ReplyDeleteDid hisservant (all 5 of them) ever deny being a deacon?
hisservant x 5 was at one point Steve Tucker in my opinion...
ReplyDelete"What a deal?" Couldn't help noticing a little repetition on the "deal" word... and only one person I know... well you get the drift.
One of the Aces in the deck may have been Larry Ray... just a guess...
ReplyDelete25+,
ReplyDeleteI love you brother and I beg you to give it a rest with "pastor". Anyone with a a good commentary or an internet connection can look up a little greek. This guy is baiting you and others on the board trying to pick a fight. It is tempting to argue with him but try not to fall into his trap.
Even if he were to admit he is Dr. Gaines (I am confident he is not) you would have no good way to verify if he was telling the truth or not. Just ignore him and he will eventually go away. Trolls throw a bunch of bait out there and see who will bite. The troll is just trying to stir up trouble and make you upset. Don't feed him. Ignore him or he will keep after you.
If he can get us off on a wild goose chase by quoting scripture out of context then he is happy. Don't play his game. Stick to the issues at BBC and stay on track.
Bin Wonderin... I'm familiar with trolls... this wasn't one in my opinion... I've never met a troll that even knew the word hermeneutics... much less spell it right on the fly. jmo
ReplyDelete25+,
ReplyDeleteSeems pastor has left the building at 2000 Appling - when do you think we can expect him back - based on rush hour traffic in Memphis? :)
Email me if you feel like it.
Karen
Repost:
ReplyDeletepastor said...
NASS,
You are a rock star. You are enjoying the attention you are recieving, for the first time in your life you did something that created a cultic following.
Matt 12:36 you will answer to, for instigating this format, and the occassional careless words you write.
The world of blogging will watch, and examine themselves.
Here is the test of what I am saying is true, if this is just my imagination, non of this will come true in the near future, if this is of the Holy Spirit, take heed.
1. You will lose big time on an investment.
2. Your job will be in jeopardy
3. Family situations will arise
4. Severe health situation will arise
Beware. I would walk around in fear, and degrade or delete this post so you will feel better.
To the rest of you, watch NASS's life and take heed.
4:00 PM, December 01, 2006
Bin Wonderin... I'm familiar with trolls... this wasn't one in my opinion... I've never met a troll that even knew the word hermeneutics... much less spell it right on the fly.
ReplyDeleteWell it is in the spell check on Word and is in dictionary.com. ;-)
Carry on as you see fit. We can agree to disagree and move on. :-)
I think we all need to be aware that "trolls" WILL be on this blog. Their purpose is to detract, cover, and distort truth
ReplyDeleteand IF they can get us to "bite" then they have succeeded in what they sought to accomplish.
Remember the "alcohol" from yesterday, we wasted an hour or two talking about it. We need to remember that some are coming on here just to read and if they see us arguing and fighting it will not be a good witness for Jesus.
We need to always take the "high" road because we serve a Risen Lord Jesus and we do not want to disappoint Him with our angry words.
Even though some here really like to debate, I don't think this is the time or place for that.
Just my opinion.
cjesusnme--
ReplyDeleteyep... I think one of the many faces of hisservant knows how to make a saddle. jmo
nhisname...
ReplyDelete"pastor" today made threats unlike any other poster here before. I hear what you and bin wonderin are saying. But read the whole exchange. I don't think that was a troll. And just for the record... I don't think I took the low road. jmo
Hey Nass and all others
ReplyDeleteBeen there done that on 1 thru 3 and #4 was my son and big brother but not me. Romans 8:28 and John 16:33 are a couple of your trump cards. Hold those cards tight when the need arises and you will always hold a winning hand. It ain't always easy but hold those cards tight my friends. Ok, that's my only comment about that.
someone said:
1. You will lose big time on an investment.
2. Your job will be in jeopardy
3. Family situations will arise
4. Severe health situation will arise
25+yrs@BBC said...
ReplyDeleteI am sorry! I definitely did mean to imply that you were taking the low road. I always respect what you have to say. All I was trying to do was to remind each of us that anyone we do not know "could" be a troll. In the case of Pastor, I just think he was trying to get something started.
I hope we are OK. I definitely do admire what you have had to say.
Neither did I see any fighting. I just thought that pastor was trying to pick a fight. I will admit I could have been wrong.
ReplyDeletenhisname
ReplyDeletethanks... no problem... I just didn't like any poster, troll or not, making those kind of threats. I was trying to get him to rule out that he was Gaines... Other trolls when pressed usually will say who they are not... but this one was acting like they couldn't answer that simple question. I hear what bin wonderin said... but how did the poster even know the word hermeneutics to use it... and spell it quickly I might add...
I think that the "pastor" today was the same one from a while back... notice the veiled threat at the end and hisservant's seal-like barking and clapping...
ReplyDeleterepost from another thread:
"pastor said...
John 20 talks about Thomas the doubter. Do you know what the difference is between being a doubter and a skeptic? Doubt is a resting place, skepticism is a permanent place. I preached at a nursing home for a year before I became a pastor. There are two kinds of people in the nursing home, sweet and skeptical. The sweet people lived a quiet life ( 1 Thess 4:11), loved the Lord and never said an unkind word about anyone, no matter how bad they have been mistreated.
The skeptical people lived lives of constant doubt about everyone and everything. We should all consider others as being more knowledgeable than ourselves (Phil 2:3)
The way a person retires at skepticism is focusing on their doubts too long. Eventually a doubter has to become like James and become a doer.
BBC is not going to have a monthly business meeting for 7000 people, close that doubt. If you try to corner him during church, you are going to affect his ability to deliver the message, which would not be of any benefit to anyone.
It sounds like they have these open door meetings on Sunday morning, but no one cares to attend them. Think about it...what message does tell the rest of the congregation about your efforts and concerns?
If only one person shows up, of course they are going to look like a rebellious person. It appears most people on this blog do not have positions of leadership or authority in their everyday lives so they want to take it out on the church.
Splitting hairs over a dinner meal, give me a break. Was it $39 or $49, who cares! A pastor is not perfect and obviously the some people that post to this blog has never led one single thing in their life, otherwise they would have more empathy for a leader that makes mistakes. Make no bones about it, if a person leads, there will always be those who will not agree. This why there is a leader, someone to lead the charge when there is confusion, and no one knows what direction to take.
A church this size can not be ran by consensus, a member either needs to see what the church is passionate about, and if that churches passion does not line up with theirs they need to find a church who shares their passion.
Some posters of this blog appear to be some overly concerned religious people, using the bible as their sword of choice, yet if they are such tremendous communicators of Gods truth, how come they are not in a teaching capacity and sharing this wonderful insight to a lost and dying world. People outside the church are clawing their way through darkness, trying to make sense of this thing called life.
Honestly, when someone posts a long post filled with scripture, I guarantee 99% of you scroll right past it because there is no dirt to chew on.
Ever heard the expression, can’t see the forest through the trees? It is human nature when we get too close to something we lose focus of the big picture, and our life gets distorted beyond the point of focusing on what is truly important.
If the church is ran by people with character flaws (which I am not saying it is or not) it will eventually blow up and become so easily recognizable for even the most marginal Christian will recognize the flaws. Just like Gamaliel’s advice in Act 5 38-39, if this church is ran by carnal men, nothing great will come of it, and it will become nothing. However, if it is of God, no blog or anyone else can overthrow it.
Get outside and enjoy life, be a blessing to others, share the love of Christ, serve the creator and master of the universe, He died for us, lets go tell the world about this great gift, who knows He might come back tonight.
Let me leave you with this advice, don’t stay in the doubt truck stop very long, the food will get you to the nursing home of skepticism faster than you care to get there.
12:37 AM, November 22, 2006
HisServant-1 said...
Pastor: great post! truly great. you get the post of the year. very very well said
12:51 AM, November 22, 2006
25+yrs@bbc,
ReplyDeleteIt could be anybody...a seminary student, or one of the many "floating" pastors who come on here and love to "hear" themselves talk. I'm sure the other side has troublers they're sending on here just to try and get someone riled up enough to get fleshly with them..and to just disrupt. If it's SG, then I agree with WTB, he's finally fallen off the cabbage truck.
The repost above came from the thread:
ReplyDelete"Financial Issues or Whatever..."
478 Comments
Besides..we have the whole armor of God and the Sword of the Spirit...knowledge of Greek and some good spelling of theological terms shouldn't intimidate us.
ReplyDeleteUm..I know how to spell hermeneutics right on the spot and even know what it means. I also know several others who know how to spell it and know its meaning as well. Knowing a little Greek can be as easy as getting a Key Word Study Bible. But I am not a pastor. I think bin wonderin is right...it is quite plausible this "pastor" was just...a person. Maybe he was a deacon. He or she could've been anyone. Just like I could be anyone =) Just a thought.
ReplyDeleteWell hisservant-1,
ReplyDeleteI wasn't too happy about the "Welcome to OUR house" billboards that popped up with Steve and Donna's picture on them right after they got here. WHOSE HOUSE?????? I think that billboard says it all.
Diana
25+years,
ReplyDeleteOne of the Aces in the deck may have been Larry Ray... just a guess...
There is only one person using my account - me. The other person pretending to me already confessed who he was and he's not even a Bellevue member currently...
Stop with the gossip...
I hope all of you took time to read and discover again, if not for the first time, the hyprocritic actions of our pastor where it comes to the Birmingham News, the Memphis Flyer, and FUMC.
ReplyDeleteI came back and saw where one of the posters using the name Pastor took your interest and what a good job he did.
Diana Hart said...
ReplyDeleteWell hisservant-1,
I wasn't too happy about the "Welcome to OUR house" billboards that popped up with Steve and Donna's picture on them right after they got here. WHOSE HOUSE?????? I think that billboard says it all.
Diana
Diana it should have said
WELCOME TO HIS HOUSE!
This reminds me of the expensive thank you card I just got from the pastor for the Love Offering. Why not save the postage and just put more $$$ in the plate!
I noticed it said there`s still time to send money for the Love offering! Sounds like an SOS to me.
blessmewiththetruth,
ReplyDeleteWe haven't forgotten...the list is growing...a good question for Sunday morning?
blessmewiththetruth,
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of the expensive thank you card I just got from the pastor for the Love Offering.
Just curious - do you work in the Communication (Print Media) department at Bellevue? If not, how would you know the cost involved in producing the postcard? Just thinkin' out loud here...
I noticed it said there`s still time to send money for the Love offering! Sounds like an SOS to me.
You're right...it should have ended with something like "If you haven't made your love offering already, tough luck for you"...right?
Here is a something I don`t quite get.
ReplyDeletewhen the pastor was asked if Mark Sharpe could address the deacons. he said he would not be allowed to until he repents without using IF.
Then the pastor finally goes am apologizes for 2 of the many things he has done.
So just what is it that he wanted Mark Sharpe to repent of?
I am not angry at anyone for thinking I am a troll, but I am not a troll.
ReplyDeleteI stopped the conversation when I was asked to by the other person on the list and I just assume they will come back one day and explain it all since they said they had the proof and I could only say I had heard this from a very reliable and trustworthy person.
I also assume that sooner or later you will know what we were talking about was true but I don`t want to get that started again.
I am here becauae I know something is wrong with the church and just like most of you, I am trying to understand what has happened.
If you want to think of me as a troll, I can`t change your minds, but I am not a troll.
Ace said.
ReplyDeleteYou're right...it should have ended with something like "If you haven't made your love offering already, tough luck for you"...right?
7:41 PM, December 01, 2006
response
Ace why are you being so hostile?
Lets be civil.
I couldn`t give a love offering this year with all the turmoil but maybe next year things will be different if there is more accountability in place.
ReplyDeletei don`t feel comfortable coming to the meetings at church. I feel like they are keeping a running tab on who shows up so they can put the hurt to them later.
ReplyDeleteTrucker,
ReplyDeleteAce why are you being so hostile?
I am not being hostile at all. People here have to find fault in EVERY single thing that Bellevue does. People criticize them for sending out Love Offering 'thank you' cards...yet if they don't, you'll be hearing on this board "I can't believe they just took my money without saying thanks." People here just can be pleased no matter what.
cJesusinme,
FYI....it's just their personality! Just ignore them and scroll on by to a less hostile environment! :)
*gasp* somebody posted something that disagrees with the majority of people here...keep on scrollin' and ignorin'! :-)
pastor said...
ReplyDeletemom4
"1 Tim 5:19, very clear"
SG,
So is Jerimiah 23
whynotask said...
ReplyDeleteCrunch
They haven't bought any lions to my knowledge. Come and be counted. You don't have to say anything.
Lions! LOL!! Oh wait do I hear growling outside my door?.....
LOVE IT, whynotask! I needed a good latte spitting moment right about now! :)
Karen
Trucker I`ve got to get going but I wanted to let you know that the pastor`s deceitful actions and those of his yes men, are the ONLY reason most of now mistrust him and them.
ReplyDeleteWhen you have been caught red hand lying, all trust leaves and the longer it goes the more hypocracy is revealed and at this point he has lost all integrity with me and a lot of others.
He preaches one thing and does another and all of his yes men follow right along behind him in unity.
Whne the Love Offering was taken this year it was substancially lower than previous years, so why not save the postage and have more $$$ to send to missions?
I don`t need a thank you note from someone who lies and leads his flock astray.
To anyone,
ReplyDeleteCan someone please explain the "Abigail out of context" reference to me? According to "pastor" I almost fell for something and I have no idea what he was talking about.
Thanks! Karen
RW interview on FOX News just ended but will be rerun around 11:20 this evening.
ReplyDeleteace,
ReplyDeleteI didn't get a "thank you card" - I guess they didn't like the letter I put in my envelope explaining why I'm withholding my gift this year.
Karen
Question of the day!
ReplyDeleteIs it ok for a BBC staffer to purchase alcohol for someone?
Does anyone have any idea how much is spent on Communications at BBC, expecially the written ones?
ReplyDeleteThe practice of sending out expensive and abundant literature, thank you's and letters, including routine letters to the teachers, deacons and program staff and participants is enormous and has been occuring for many years; however, this is something that has increased with the Gaines leadership. The sermon notes(the fill-in-the-blank inserts) were added at an enormous expense to the church, yet even with that much more room, they still cut the details from the music program. That should tell us something about the concern the leadership has for the other aspects of our services and the controlling of costs.
I wonder what would happen if we got back to basics, not going backwards, just being practical? You know, singing hymns from the hymnals with the music notes (which helps one to learn music), the reading of scripture from OUR Bibles that we bring from home, the worship of our tears when we are moved by a song that brings down the glory of HIS magesty and wonder. The awesome silence of a Holy Spirit moving among us. I wonder what would happen?
Ace said
ReplyDeleteI am not being hostile at all. People here have to find fault in EVERY single thing that Bellevue does.
Ace
Don't you realize that you are really angry at people you don't even know.
I ask you to think about this.Are you showing real love to those who you are not in agreement with.
Is this the way Jesus would want us to address and interact with others?
Karen,
ReplyDeleteThe question was, "ok for a Bellevue Minster to purchase it?"
I hope your answer is no as that I believe is our Churche's position.
The staff person is reoresenting our Church. The fact that he purchased it makes it a big deal!!
ReplyDeleteAvoid all apperance of evil. Dr. Rogers would have never purchased it!!
I personally think it's wrong, but I don't know what the "official" positon would be. Why do you ask?
ReplyDeleteKaren
Trucker,
ReplyDeleteDon't you realize that you are really angry at people you don't even know.
Show me a post where I express anger towards someone, please. Oh wait, you can't do that because I have never done that.
You should be addressing your post to other people on this forum...not me.
Is this the way Jesus would want us to address and interact with others?
Now, now...would Jesus want us to be blogging about all these issues, and etc?
Would you "purchase" alcohol for someone?
ReplyDeleteIf you we a BBC teacher and we on a fellowhship out, would you purchase alcoho for someone?
Not a very good witness.
Do not abuus your liberties as to cause someone to stumble.
Again, the question is "purchased for someone"
questions,
ReplyDeleteYou're right - I cannot in good conscience defend that action.
Karen
Karen,
ReplyDeleteI didn't get a "thank you card" - I guess they didn't like the letter I put in my envelope explaining why I'm withholding my gift this year.
Even if you didn't participate in the love offering, you should have gotten this. Do you get other Bellevue mailiings?
If it makes you feel any better, I'll give you mine! :-)
karen wrote:
ReplyDelete"According to "pastor" I almost fell for something and I have no idea what he was talking about."
I wouldn't worry about it, Karen. He didn't have any idea what he was talking about either!
NASS
questions,
ReplyDeleteIf this behavior is causing you to stumble, please come to the Communications Committee meeting on Sunday at 8:00 am.
Karen
ace,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the Love Offering card offer. I'll pick that up from you at the Communciations Committee meeting on Sunday morning at 8:00 am, okay?
Karen
Karen,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the Love Offering card offer. I'll pick that up from you at the Communciations Committee meeting on Sunday morning at 8:00 am, okay?
Unfortunately due to other commitments at Bellevue I will be unable to attend this week's meeting. Would you like for to leave it on the back table in the library instead?
Ya'll are a hoot!
ReplyDeleteGood show, Karen! You bless me. Keep up the good work.
The back table? Sounds a little cloak and dagger to me, but if you'll be at that table I would like that. You have to admit it was a good try to see if I could me you, huh? Hey, you can't blame a girl for trying - :)
ReplyDeleteKaren
Karen,
ReplyDeleteThe back table? Sounds a little cloak and dagger to me, but if you'll be at that table I would like that.
I wouldn't be at the table for very long. And even if you were to wait from 8am onwards, I am so fast that you'll never see me when I drop it off. So you'll be standing there for hours then around noon because of your boredom, you start going through all the stuff on the table, and whoa...it's there! ;-)
You have to admit it was a good try to see if I could me you, huh? Hey, you can't blame a girl for trying - :)
Yeah, I know exactly what your intentions were... :-)
Ace said
ReplyDeleteShow me a post where I express anger towards someone, please. Oh wait, you can't do that because I have never done that.
response
Ace do you not see the anger in that statement?
ace said
You should be addressing your post to other people on this forum...not me.
response
Ace ,here you are implying that the people on this forum are angry at you.Although I've started reading this today. I really haven't read any post that bears this out.
Ace said,
Now, now...would Jesus want us to be blogging about all these issues, and etc?
response
Ace I really don't understand this statement?Please explain your reasoning to me.
Thanks
cJesus,
ReplyDeleteYou wouldn't happen to have an extra would you because I didn't get one either and would love one!
If Karen doesn't really want it, I'd be glad to drop it off somewhere for you instead...if you're being serious here.
Headoutofthesand,
Without revealing who you are, can you at least tell me where you attend school?
Who says I currently attend school? Hmm...
Karen,
ReplyDelete"pastor" was just trying to sound mysterious and foreboding...take it with a grain of salt. I think whoever it was is a nutcase.
ABOUT THE ALCOHOL ISSUE
ReplyDeleteI think a few on the list owe an apology to Theophylus and Crunch if what Karen says is factual.
Neither T or C said the person they were referring to was drinking themselves and you can go back and read the posts to see what I am talking about.
If a minister at Bellevue is purchasing alcohol for anyone it is DEAD WRONG and should not be tolerated!
The church can`t teach that drinking is a sin and have it ministers buying alcohol for anyone without being hypocritical.
ace,
ReplyDeleteActually I sent my husband to the mailbox and there it was (see, you're better than you think you are!) :) So ya saw right through my ruse, huh? There goes my career with the CIA!
Cjesus, I know I'll see you - I'll bring it with me.
Trucker,
ReplyDeleteI first said:
Show me a post where I express anger towards someone, please. Oh wait, you can't do that because I have never done that.
Then you said:
Ace do you not see the anger in that statement?
No, I honestly do not. How about we get a third opinion on this? I trust Karen on these forums...Karen, are my posts full of anger?
Ace ,here you are implying that the people on this forum are angry at you.
No - I'm not implying it. I'm saying it. Some people here hate my guts for the stand that I'm taking against the majority here.
Although I've started reading this today. I really haven't read any post that bears this out.
That's the problem. I haven't posted much in the past day or two. You need to go read posts from a week ago and you'll see the anger.
Ace I really don't understand this statement?Please explain your reasoning to me.
Reasoning for what? My question is as plain as it was written out to be. Do you think Jesus would approve of this blog? That's what I'm asking. What reasoning to I have to provide?
Karen,
ReplyDeleteActually I sent my husband to the mailbox and there it was
Glad you got it!
cJesus,
ReplyDeleteBut it would be so neat to have Ace's. You know....trace DNA perhaps....
If that's what you want, I will leave in envelope for you in the library with your name on it. Inside of it will be an index card with my fingerprints on it and I will also include a snippit of my hair. Have fun, mkay? :)
Maybe we will lighten you up a little Ace and you might learn to like us!
I think if you read my previous posts you will notice that I am a lot less...ugly than people make me out to be. I am actually a nice person, believe it or not...
ace,
ReplyDeleteI think you've been just as passionate about your postion as the rest of us have been about our position - man, I outta be a politician! :)
trucker,
Ace is not angry - he has been messed with (people posing as him),but I don't think he's angry. Give him another chance.
What new minister at Bellevue has the initials D.C.
ReplyDeleteKaren,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the post...I appreciate it! And you are correct...it takes a lot for Ace to get angry and that I am not!
Ace,
ReplyDeleteI too would like to know BBC policy on staff purchasing alcohol for others in public?
healingbalm wrote:
ReplyDelete"What new minister at Bellevue has the initials D.C."
Derrick Calcote?
Proberbs,
ReplyDeleteI too would like to know BBC policy on staff purchasing alcohol for others in public?
I recommend you ask your question at the meeting on Sunday a.m.
healingbalm
ReplyDeleteSomeone said earlier that David Coombs is the new Associate Pastor - but I missed that. Is that true?
Is Derrick Calcote on staff? not who I was considering...Hum
ReplyDeletehealingbalm,
ReplyDeleteDarrell Clarke? What about him?
Ace,
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you're a nice person..we just disagree...let's just agree to disagree agreeably. If I've ever offended you tell me about and I'll make it right.
Ace,
ReplyDeleteBut I want to know wht your conviction is on this ?
David Coombs?
ReplyDeleteCJesusinMe,
ReplyDeleteI don't HATE anyone. That is a very powerful and ugly word.
Okay...maybe wrong word choice there. "Highly dislike" would be a better term, maybe...
but I am still your sister in Christ! :)
That you are...I love you sister! :)
Let's build a case here.
ReplyDeleteWhat if that happened?
Should it be reported?
Should he be held to a higher standard?
Proverbs said...
ReplyDeleteI too would like to know BBC policy on staff purchasing alcohol for others in public?
Proverbs Dr. Rogers taught us that alcohol was absolutely not acceptable. Has this changed at Bellevue? He had sermons on wine not being fermented and so forth and went to a lot of detail to show us we didn`t need to drink alcohol.
If Bellevue leadership agrees that it is ok for leaders of our church to buy alcohol for anyone for any reason, be it public or private, I will be amazed.
If they would agree that the members should buy alcohol for anyone for any reason, be it public or private, I will be amazed.
Dr. Roger taught us better than this and I sure hope no one has taken a turn in the road.
allofgrace wrote:
ReplyDeleteDavid Coombs?
Ding ding ding ding!
We have a winner!
Karen,
ReplyDeleteSomeone said earlier that David Coombs is the new Associate Pastor
He is not replacing Mark D...his position is officially called 'Administrative Pastor' or something similiar...I can't remember exactly what his title is.
healingbalm,
ReplyDeleteYou feelin' better? We were worried about you last week. Hope things are looking up for you now!
NASS
HealingBalm said...
ReplyDeleteProverbs said...
I too would like to know BBC policy on staff purchasing alcohol for others in public?
Proverbs Dr. Rogers taught us that alcohol was absolutely not acceptable. Has this changed at Bellevue? He had sermons on wine not being fermented and so forth and went to a lot of detail to show us we didn`t need to drink alcohol.
If Bellevue leadership agrees that it is ok for leaders of our church to buy alcohol for anyone for any reason, be it public or private, I will be amazed.
If they would agree that the members should buy alcohol for anyone for any reason, be it public or private, I will be amazed.
Dr. Roger taught us better than this and I sure hope no one has taken a turn in the road.
9:24 PM, December 01, 2006
HealingBalm,
very well said and I agree.
Ace, we need to here from you on this?
cjesusnme,
ReplyDeleteI believe we are on to something here. There must be something to this.
Headoutofthesand,
ReplyDeleteSorry, I meant seminary...not school.
That's fine...but again, what makes you think I'm in seminary?
Proverbs,
Go look up a verse in the book of your name...20:1 I believe is the chapter/verse...that is my opinon on alcohol and I don't even know why we're discussing this now?
Ace,
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you want to stay out of this as you are not answering.
Ace,
I need to hear from you on this?
Proverbs said...
ReplyDeleteLet's build a case here.
What if that happened?
Should it be reported?
Should he be held to a higher standard?
Proverbs
I say Matthew 18 is in order.
If Matthew 18 does not resolve it then take it to the church.
If someone has proof of this and does nothing about it, I think that is a sin.
Ace,
ReplyDeleteWhat if we know a staff member purchased alcohol for someon in public?
What should the Church say and do?
Should he continue in leadership?
Proverbs,
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you want to stay out of this as you are not answering.
I need to hear from you on this?
I answered you. And I am not going to contribute to this gossip/talk about specific people until I even know what you're talking about and the issues people are now raising...
Ace,
ReplyDeleteLet's go over it again real slow and simple.
Someone saw a BBC staff person purchasing alcohol for another person in public?
What should the witness do and don't you think "OUR" Church needs to know?
Proverbs,
ReplyDeleteWhat if we know a staff member purchased alcohol for someon in public?
How would you know this? I need details on the situation before I can comment...and I don't want any gossip. Facts only.
Wine can be purchased for cooking....boil/cook it and wa-lah no longer alcoholic. Is there a problem with that, Proverbs? In you're own opinion, of course...
What should the Church say and do?
Should he continue in leadership?
Did he drink? Why did he purchase it? What leadership role does he possess? And I have tons more questions, would you like for me to send them to you before I address this question?
Proverbs
ReplyDeleteI belive the person is a new minister who has come to help solve Bellevue`s issues if I remember an earlier post correctly, then why oh why oh why do we want a person who is buying alcohol coming to Bellevue to be a problem solver if they already have shown that they have a problem they need solved.
If they did this in public then they don`t fear members seeing them???? No this is arrogance in my book and that`s all we need, MORE ARROGRANCE!
If they have no problem buying alcohol then what else will they buy for someone????
I wouldn`t want this person to minister to me or at my church.
Proberbs,
ReplyDeleteSomeone saw a BBC staff person purchasing alcohol for another person in public?
Where did they see them purchase it? At the liquor store or a resturant? Do you even have that info available? Do you have any facts to present for this situation?
What should the witness do and don't you think "OUR" Church needs to know?
You can arrange a private meeting with the upper people at Bellevue, for starters.....
cjesusnme,
ReplyDeleteI'll be there.
ACE,
ReplyDeleteThe person he purchased the alcohol for drank the entire glass and the staff person paid for it.
You need no other information to give us your decision.