The latest: On 12-27 we received this.
You know, sometimes you receive an e-mail that is so incredible and so unbelievable, that it deserves its own 15 minutes of fame. I've received a series of e-mails from a woman who identified herself as "SendTheLight50," aka Billie, that is unlike anything I've ever read. (I won't publish her last name here in the interest of privacy.) I've been accused by some of suppressing the ideas of those whose ideas aren't in line with those of the "anti-Bellevue" crowd, so in the interest of openness and fairness, I hereby give "SendTheLight50" the stage.
She first wrote me on 11-25-06, apparently in response to the Purpose Driven thread, but didn't sign her name. Here are those exchanges.
I thought that would be the end of it, but on 12-19-06 I received these letters which had also been cc'd to a long list of people along with the request they be forwarded to as many people as possible.
This was Karen's response to "SendTheLight50" the next day. (Reprinted with Karen's permission.)
That same day I (and a lot of other people) received this.
On 12-22 even more people received this.
On 12-23 we all received this.
On Christmas Day, we received this.
On 12-26 we received this.
As I stated last week I have no intention of responding to any more of these letters.
Note: I would like to ask that any comments be directed at this person's comments and not at her personally. Try to keep the discussion focused on ideas, not personalities.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
421 comments:
1 – 200 of 421 Newer› Newest»Hey folks,
I trust each one of you had a Merry Christmas and continue to do so. I read the letter from the 16 year old girl and believe her sincerity. 1 Corinthians 1:27 immediately came to my mind.
The reason for my interest in this matter, is I believe BBC will one day make national news and impugn all the SBC as not being hard on the grievous sin of PW. Which I choose not to speak about.
Allow me to share with you from a fellow pastor. I too went through an ordeal recently where one of my leaders said some unkind accusations against me. I heard about the grumblings and we held a church meeting to discuss these things. After the facts were laid out and it was demonstrated I had total honesty and integrity in all things. I allowed any member or guest to ask me any question they desired.
There were no accusations except by the one person who started this. I always believed where there is smoke there is fire, either the person being spoken of is on fire, or the person speaking is on fire.
After there were no questions relating to my honesty, integrity or character, I called (out of my own desire) for a church vote. The church leaders and staff said that was neither necessary nor required. I stated I wanted a vote of confidence, right then, so they had to honor my request. I won almost by a unanimous land slide and we ended the matter there. The man, and a couple of his friends, that made the unkind accusations is no longer a member or in leadership at the church I serve.
The reason for that story is to share with you my heart and to pass only my opinions; I am not stating anything on this blog is true other than those comments by all parties that have been verified. I believe SG Wednesday night was sincere and had no ill feelings toward Dr. Spradlin. I assume, however, as the week unfolded and SG received council from his advisors, the anger stirred inside of him, which led to the meeting on Saturday (I am not stating if the meeting actually happened or SG words were accurately portrayed.)
If the statement by SG is correct on Saturday that would contradict his statement on Wednesday. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t that what started this whole thing a year ago, contradicting statements by the pastor? I believe, a person in the middle of this fire storm, would be much wiser with his words and learn from his mistakes.
I am no better than SG and I wish him no ill will, however, I can boldly type these words because my actions speak louder than my words, and I would not recommend to any other pastor those steps which I would not be willing, or have taken.
For the sake of the honor of the bride of Christ, I would encourage the pastor at BBC to call for a meeting and allow full disclosure. Then proceed with a confidence vote. There must be some sort of closure on this matter, which I do not see in any other possibility outside of a confidence vote. Is it possible with 7000 members, I don’t know, what kind of format I don’t know. However, I do believe it would be easier with 7000 members rather than on a national format.
Maybe I am just naive, and believe open honest, timely communication between staff and members is possible, I understand not everyone is going to agree with the pastor. In issues of Christian character and honesty, the case should be as obvious as night and day. This has been true with Dr. Rogers, Billy Graham and numerous other godly men and women. In areas of processes and methods, there will always be gray areas and personal opinions, which your staff must have your confidence in.
I would also recommend for other pastors reading these words to examine your own ministry and ensure no one could possibly accuse you of non Christian character or honesty, surround yourself with folks who will hold you accountable.
I know there are many pastors learning from this blog so allow me to discuss another issue of accountability. We are all aware of the issue of horrible pornographic images on the internet. One step that I put in place a while ago was a program called covenant eyes
( http://www.covenanteyes.com ) $6.00 per month.
A weekly report is sent to two other pastors and my wife of all internet sites I have visited, and will also send an immediate email if I have visited an inappropriate site. I believe every pastor should have this service, and I believe every church should want this service for not just their pastor but all leaders involved with the ministry of the bride of Christ.
No I do not receive any moneys from CE (covenant eyes) for touting their product, this is strictly from my heart. I would not want any money from Covenant Eyes because then my testimony would be diluted. I was not asked to use this form of accountability, but I am also aware of the staggering percentages of church leaders that visit inappropriate sites, and because of them and myself, I wanted this layer of protection. I also am not allowed to turn off the monitoring of CE, if I do, an email is sent immediately to my accountability partners.
There is always room at the cross for repentance and heart changes, which I do not deny. However, we must go to the extreme to protect the children and show the world, as SBC people, we will not tolerate, even the hint, of our children, or anyone else for that matter, being mistreated by the bride of Christ. Furthermore, that we as church leaders are willing to go to the extreme to be held accountable for our actions whether they be perceived or real.
I will not copy and repost on all the various strings on this blog. If you have found my statements to be of some merit, please copy and paste on the different strings of this blog.
Kevin Landis
www.trailtoheaven.org
www.dentoncountycowboychurch.org
Oh, but it is not disturbing to read this blog and all the pure hate on it? And some posting the hate claim to be spirit filled Christians. Some would like to be "leaders" at Bellevue and think THEIR way is the right way.
NO, that is disturbing!
repost
swtt said...
Two interesting sights to check out as we all grieve over how Steve Gaines has impacted Bellevue Baptist Church this past year.
As the days pass by, there are a growing number of members who were Steve Gaines supporters months ago jumping the fence to the other view of Steve Gaines.
I know of two longtime members of Bellevue, both of whom are deacons that have had a change of heart in the past month. It appears that hiding a pedophile caused them to be awakened. Please pray that God continue to work in the hearts of Bellevue.
http://baptistblog.wordpress.com/2006/12/23/our-iron-lady/
www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=8330
10:31 AM, December 26, 2006
4545,
Please don't confuse accountability on integrity issues with hate. People are not attacking steve gaines personally. They are just not condoning lying, law-breaking, intimidation, the love of money, the use of the pulpit for personal gain, wrongful termination of staff, and lack of judgement from the pulpit.
I pray that you realize people are not against Steve Gaines personally. Nothing could be further from the truth. The position of pastor is too important to not uphold the Biblical standards for this office.
If it were not for this blog, the truth would not be known on many issues that the congregation has a right to know. When the truth on these issues is known, people can make thier own decision on whether Bellevue should embrace a pastor with these issues and qualities.
I pray we demand a change.
I think you need to read more on this blog. Many posts are are full of personal attacks and pure hate. Many have personally attacked Dr. Gaines and many others and continue to do so. Please do not sugar coat it.
Hey NASS, I can't pull up those letters.
Pastor, cjesusnme, and swtt,
Great posts! I don't even have to respond to 4545 because you already did it for me. Thanks!
A good friend pointed out something to me today.
I have been grieved about all the standing ovations because I saw it as evidence that church members are not concerned about integrity of the pastor, but instead, have swallowed the world's view of tolerance and moral relativism.
My friend made a valid point when she said that if God is attempting to humble a man in order to use him, all these "admirers" are just getting in the way of His plan. The fanclub that is forming will only puff him up. Even people from Gardendale who liked Gaines admitted that he had quite an ego. What if God wants to work on this and John Caldwell and other who prompt these pep rallies are working against the voice of the Holy Spirit in Steve Gaines'life?
Afterall, if they want him to stay, would they not want God's will to be done in his life?
Just a thought.
I've been accused by some of suppressing the ideas of those whose ideas aren't in line with those of the "anti-Bellevue" crowd, so in the interest of openness and fairness, I hereby give "SendTheLight50" the stage……I just wanted people to see the mindset of some people. This woman is a Bible Fellowship teacher of young women, and with ideas like these, to me that is a very disturbing thought!
This is the introduction of being open and fair?? I am not saying she is right or wrong on anything, but if this is an example of being open minded on her opinions, then I am stumped. It sounds to me like it is a setup for her being made fun of. I just do not see this as being fair to her opinions and certainly not open minded. Am I the only one that read for intro in this way??? Also note that no one single person speaks for the people that support Gaines or the people that are looking for his resignation.
Please honor the request made:
I would like to ask that any comments be directed at this woman's comments and not at her personally.
"This lady has no business in a teaching position. She is apparently depressed if not emotionally disturbed."
Great post, Memphis...I noticed that same thing from our blogmaster. She acts like she's being fair and letting another side take the stage, then she is calling her being a teacher disturbing and etc.
NASS, if you want someone from the opposing side to take the stage, why don't you email myself or memphis? I'd be glad to voice my opinions in a new post, as I'm sure memphis would too.
I would like to add that this same friend overheard two separate conversations in two different restuarants regarding the PW situation. In both cases the parties discussing it seemed confused as to why a 17 year old incident could be brought up again. She was concerned that many people do not understand the nature of a pedophile. Not reporting an incident of this nature is against the law BECAUSE pedophiles are rarely, if ever cured, and usually continue their activity involving, sometimes, hundreds of victims. I, personally, thought most people would be aware of this since these type of occurances are so highly publicized these days, but apparently not.
Mom4, I understand it is sometimes hard to say something in writing, it took me 4 trys to get my post the way I wanted it. If you feel you need to redo your post, then I will leave that to you, I was just commenting on what I read.
I have reason to believe Ace might be Mark Spiller....
C'mon Ace...deny or sidestep the issue like you have so many others.....
Mom4,
Regarding your comment. I took your post the wrong wasy, also. It seems to me you are attacking the lady instead of the post. You called her depressed and possibly emotionally disturbed...you should have said her comments are disturbing if you disagreed with them... but you said the lady was those things...
Piglet,
I have reason to believe Ace might be Mark Spiller....
Wrong.
C'mon Ace...deny or sidestep the issue like you have so many others.....
Huh? What have I denied or sidestepped in this post? Absolutely nothing and that's your problem. Why did you even bring this up? Oh, I know...it's because you see 'ace' posted, so now it's time to attack and bash him.
Ace
Why is saying you are Mark Spiller bashing you? :)
And let's be honest, now, you don't always address the issues head on. You just try to discredit the blog and the opinions here.
That's okay. You don't really bother me.
MOM4 said... REVISED STATEMENT FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL
NASS,
The emails from "Billie" are disturbing. These attacks are typical of the attitudes toward anyone who desires accountability at BBC. This lady has no business in a teaching position. HER COMMENTS ARE THOSE OF SOMEONE WHO IS EXPRESSING A DEPRESSIVE STATE OF MIND IF NOT AN EMOTIONALLY DISTURBING THOUGHT PROCESS. I am not stating that she is "disturbed" as a person, however her repetitive and attacking letters represent a disturbing chain of thoughts. I would block her from my email if I were you all!
Happy ACE:)
CJesusInMe,
You, on the otherhand have NOTHING to lose if you truly feel that you are following God's man, so why don't you remove the mask and identify yourself to us all so that there is no mystery anymore and we won't accuse you of being someone you are not.
I don't tell people who I am because there are some weirdos on this forum who hate my guts. I receive quite a bunch of hate mail so I can only imagine what would happen if people here knew my name. I'm sorry but my safety is more important than my identity to you guys. Like I previously posted, I am very fragile. You know, like a delicate flower...
I just thought it would be a really sweet gesture on your part sweetie!
I would love to, but like I said, my safety comes first.
Piglet,
Why is saying you are Mark Spiller bashing you? :)
That's not the part of your post that was the attack and you know that.
And let's be honest, now, you don't always address the issues head on.
And everyone else here does? I don't think so.
You just try to discredit the blog and the opinions here.
I do this sometimes, yes, because there is nothing to credit. It is mostly gossip and "I hate Steve" and "I hate Bellevue" posts.
That's okay. You don't really bother me.
That's good.
Ace
Who is sending you hate mail?!!
All the folks on this blog that I know are really good people...passionate, maybe, but don't hate anyone!
Occasionally a "weirdo" drops in but I don't know of any who have stayed.
(And the weidos I remember would not be sending YOU hate mail)
Please don't feed the trolls.
Ace said,
"I don't tell people who I am because there are some weirdos on this forum who hate my guts. I receive quite a bunch of hate mail so I can only imagine what would happen if people here knew my name. I'm sorry but my safety is more important than my identity to you guys."
Everyone reading this blog knows that Ace suffers from cronic lying. Nobody on this blog has sent Ace a threatening email and nobody hates Ace's guts.
If Ace has received one email, let him publish the email. He would have already done so if this were true.
The only hatemail I've heard of has come from the deacons at Bellevue and a few staff.
I call on the blog administrator to stop publishing the filth and lies that spew from Ace.
Ace and SG are obviously from the same bent. SG says anyone who blogs is a kook and a coward. This is the same babble from Ace. If you didn't know any better, they are one in the same. The blog has been incredibly successful in forcing SG and company to deal with issues that have always been able to be swept under the carpet.
The membership has control of the I-MAG now and SG and company can't stand it. They will do anything to distract truth.
Don't let Ace and his kind hijack this blog like they have Bellevue. We don't need to get down in the gutter with them. Truth is very hard for them to swallow so they try to divert with what they are good at, which is lying.
Ace
I don't think anyone here has insinuated they hate Steve or Bellevue.
We HATE what is happening to Bellevue because of the lack of integrity in our leadership.
We HATE intimidation and cover-up.
We HATE arrogance and the disregard for the concerns of the membership.
We HATE when loyalty to truth and righteousness is replaced by loyalty to a man with no regard to accountability.
By the way, I would like your thoughts on my 1:31 post.
Ace,
I am a bellevue member who would like to see Pastor Gaines resign. Not because of any ill will or hate, but because of the following:
1. Lack of checks and balances at the top of leadership (i.e. $25k donation to FUMC)
2. Lack of openness (unwilling to orchestrate an open mtg with Jim Whitmire, David Smith, Bryson McQuiston and Mark Sharpe etc... to get to the bottom of the arrogance issues [monies, intimidation and bullying])
3. Lack of shepherding (discussing BBC issues with other churches, demeaning those who oppose him etc...)
4. Lack of discernment (witholding the PW story from BBC leadership and church body)
I personally think Pastor Gaines is a great preacher and truly would have loved for none of this to have happened. However he has lost my trust by not being a shepherd to his flock.
May I ask you given the above 4 issues, why do you still support him as our pastor? Please answer as honestly and openly as possible, I truly want to undertand an opposing view.
Thanks
swtt
Point taken.
I do think Ace is Mark Spiller. But he needn't worry. I won't be climbing any fences to confront him.
Afterall, I'm just a little timid piglet...
Ace is still working on a response...
memphis,
sendthelight has embarrassed herself - she needs no other help from you or anyone else. I've kept some emails to myself for the very fact they spew hate DIRECTLY AT ME! I refuse to send them to NASS - the one I did send was so bizarre, I had to get confirmation that I wasn't the one who was going crazy. If you want hate fille speech, I have her emails. If you want to see them to bolster your "cause", please email me, reveal who you are and I will gladly share them with you. If not, be careful who you support - you have no idea what she's capable of. I'm not saying I have any idea either, but I bet Wayne Vandersteeg, Mike Spradlin, Wayne Addison, John Bramlett, Josh Manning, NASS, the Adult Ministry at BBC, Christian Publishers, Jamie Fish, Webb Williams, Doyal Long, Larry Ray and about 100 others she has bothered with these silly emails. Go ask these people; I have the emails with their addresses on them.
Karen
Still working.....
Or has left the building.
I've got to go. Will check back with ya'll later :0)
piglet,
Hope you had a great Christmas.
As far as Ace, SG, etc. are concerned, it appears that God has given these folks a spirit of confusion.
Most of these folks are wealthy business owners or leaders in the church or their companies. It amazes me the decisions that are coming out week after week that just don't make sense.
Some recent examples:
Agreeing it's ok to check people's tithing when that's between the person and God.
Getting rid of the best Minister of Music in the Souther Baptist Convention.
Having personal charges direct billed to the church.
Telling folks about weird dreams like the "Amen" fellow in the pews and the weird dream at the "rock" in the Garden of Gathsemane while leading a Holy Land trip.
Actually upcharging tour tickets to put money in the back pocket of Steve Gaines.
Jumping a fence with a clearly marked "No Trespassing" sign displayed.
Lying.
Establishing a Communication Committee that gives false or no communication.
Hiding a known pedophile for 6 months instead of dealing with it properly.
Telling a seminary president that Matthew 18 doesn't apply to certain people in the church.
Getting in front of the church and telling false information.
Going to another church and trash your own sheep.
Telling Bellevue members that the church doesn't have bylaws.
Calling bloggers kooks and cowards.
Giving the pastor a compensation package of over $400,000 and then telling members it's none of your business what we pay the pastor.
Giving $25,000 to a church known for being pro-abortion and embracing homosexuality.
I could keep going on and on but I'm really getting that sick feeling in my stomach again.
I think everyone gets the point.
I know you could come up with this many more.
Please read this article -
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/secure/cwnetwork/article.php?ArticleID=1390
Sound familiar?
karen
FYI, I lifted that off of savingbellevue.com. I don't think Jim Haywood will mind.
Karen
Ezekiel,
What's scarier still is that the article was not written specifically about Steve Gaines. The REALLY scary part is that this "idol worship" of pastors is prevalent enougt to warrant an article on the internet. It boggles the mind to think how many churches are hurting as ours is.
BTW, my mom bought me a little plaque for Christmas that I think I will adopt as a personal statement:
"Sometimes God calms the storm and sometimes He lets the storm rage and calms His child."
karen
I amazed that woman claims to be a Christian. I have never read such hatred come from one's heart. I believe that the venom being spewed from the pulpit is trickling down to our teachers. If your daughter has a "Ms. Billie" as a teacher - run for the hills before she brain washes your child! Our children are not safe at Bellevue anymore
Thats definitely true. That might explain why I didn't feel like I fit in after I returned earlier this year. I'm too independent minded to blindly follow someone like Mr. Gaines. But then again, being independent minded is a good thing after all thats come out about Mr. Gaines.
karen,
This article is so familiar. Everyone needs to read it! Looks like a Worldview Weekend is not in our immediate future.
Why Many of Today’s Evangelical Pastors Are Cult-Like
from Christian Worldview Network at www.worldviewweekend.com
Karen,
I love the plaque your mother gave you.
So many times in my life I have been reminded of the story of Peter on the water. The storm can be raging all around you and you'll go down in a minute if you take your eyes off Jesus.
But with our eyes on Him we can walk on the water. Praise the Lord!
When I picture this moving scene I always think of the verse in Isaiah (26:3) "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee; because he trusteth in Thee."
When the people of God gather to worship..all attention, focus, praise, adoration, and adulation belong to Him and Him alone...anything else is idolatry...period.
As to the posted emails: I find it amazing that this person believes that those with concerns about BBC are wealthy folks who've "always had it our way"...good grief. The venom and hatred come through loud and clear..but then is denied (hard to track the exact thinking). There is also an apparent obsession with Calvinism..though I doubt seriously this person even knows what it is...as neither do most who most vehemently rail against it...again, good grief. The unhealthy "Joshua" syndrome is quite disturbing..as are references to Bellevue as a "temple". All in all it appears that this persons views are shaped solely by an overwhelming obsession with Dr. Gaines. The conspiracy list is probably the most disturbing thing...quite a game of "connect the dots"..with one bad missing link...to my knowledge, Josh Manning doesn't have a wife..that is kinda fishy.
The part that strikes me as funny - read: sad - is that I've been told in past days (via radio and email) that I'm mad at Steve Gaines for the following reasons:
1. I wanted Ken Whitten for pastor.
2. I don't like the music.
3. Something about 5 point Calvinism. I have no clue what this means, but apparantly I'm mad about it.
The above 3 "reasons" I'm mad are complete BUNK.
The real reasons I am mad are:
1. Steve Gaines harbored and protected a pedophile - as an abuse victim myself I find that Steve Gaines non-action for 6 months are criminal.
2. Steve Gaines has personally hurt a family friend of mine and that makes me mad. The fact that he lied from the pulpit in regard to his "apology" to Dr. Whitmire also makes me mad.
3. Steve Gaines and 3 representatives of our church broke the law by trespassing over a fence - I don't care if it was 42 inches or 42 feet high, they broke the law and that makes me mad.
As you will notice, I am mad at the actions (or as in #1, inaction) of a man I respected when he first came to Bellevue. I am not mad at Steve Gaines in the least. I am mad at the things he has done - or not done. Please don't say this post is hate filled or libelous or slanderous. These are things we know happened without a shadow of a doubt.
God in in control of BBC - God has preordained the outcome of this situation long before we came on the scene. God will handle it. I feel God will reveal a resolution to this situation that will "please" all "sides" of this "fight" in such a way that all we will be able to do is fall on our knees and worship HIM. God doesn't need our standing ovations. He's got angels - what does He need my applause for?
karen
Is there anyone that disputes that SG has broken the law by his own admission at least (2) two times since he has been Pastor of BBC?
It is a sad day when the standards and morals of Christians and their churches have fallen so low that the Government has to come in to enforce the world's standards.
Think about that! The world used to criticize God's people for pushing God's standard on the world. Now the Government has had to step in and enforce their standards! Who can fathom?
Ok...off to have some leftovers...turkey, cornbread dressing with gravy, green bean casserole, deviled eggs, and potato salad...yea that's right, potato salad. yummmmmmmmm.
mmmm, turkey!
We had stuffed beef tenderloin at momma's house - it pays to be my friend at the holidays!
Karen
bbc refugee,
I never thought I'd see the day when the DA's office/Police/Child Protective Services would be interested in my church. Sure makes ya sit back and take a deep breath, huh?
AOG,
I didn't address this before, but I did find it "funny" that Josh has now acquired a wife. Hey, Josh where was my wedding invitation?
karen
I guess the most concerning part of the emails is that someone who got one or all of them might actually take it seriously.
swtt said:
Telling folks about weird dreams like the "Amen" fellow in the pews and the weird dream at the "rock" in the Garden of Gathsemane while leading a Holy Land trip.
****
WHAT??? what is this about? You mean he had ANOTHER dream? I knew about the amen dream, but not the garden of gathsemane. I thought he didn't believe in dreams, per his 'Morning Manna' book.
I'm so confused.
Poor Billie is following men instead of Christ. I am having a hard time believing she teaches SS. Her knowledge of scripture is very skewed in the way she interprets scripture including the story about Joshua.
These are not attacks...just observations.
If you read closely, she is more concerned with the issue of 'election' than she is about a child being molested by their minister father and her pastor covering it up and jeporadizing other children in the church.
Does she realize your pastor could still be charged with withholding this information from the authorities? This is very embarrassing. The civil authorities are more concerned with our children than our own church!
fedupatbbc,
Steve Gaines has retold an experience he had while leading a tour group to the Holy Land.
In this story, his group is at the Garden of Gethsemane and he's wanted to pray at the "rock" for years. The "rock" where Jesus supposedly prayed is proteced by some kind of barrier to keep people from getting close to it.
In this experience, he finds himself looking at a man dressed like a monk, motioning for him to come over to the rock. The man's face can't be seen. He's dressed in a black robe including cover over his head. Nobody else saw the monk, but SG tells of going over to the rock and kneeling while praying for an undetermined amount of time.
Then, a guard interrupts his prayer by tapping him on the shoulder. The guard says, you can't be here. How did you get over here? Get back.
Steve Gaines says, "It's ok. The monk said I could come over here and pray." Then the guard asks him, "what monk", and SG replys "the guy dressed in black".
The guard then tells him there is no monk and to get back immediately.
Piglet,
Who is sending you hate mail?!!
A bunch of people. Keep in mind, I get more positive letters than negative so it's fine in the end with me.
All the folks on this blog that I know are really good people...passionate, maybe, but don't hate anyone!
Perhaps the people sending the emails don't post here? I dunno. I'm pretty sure they got my email address from here because I don't publish it anywhere else.
(And the weidos I remember would not be sending YOU hate mail)
Well some people have...whether they have posted here or not, I don't know, nor do I care. I simply ignore those emails.
I do think Ace is Mark Spiller. But he needn't worry. I won't be climbing any fences to confront him.
I already told you that I am not Mark. Drop it.
then later you said...
Ace is still working on a response...
Actually, I wasn't. Unlike you, I have a life and I'm not constantly refreshing this site for new comments and stuff. :)
swtt,
I'm wonderin if there was a monk on the other side of that fence.
:)
ace,
You're a hoot.
swtt,
Everyone reading this blog knows that Ace suffers from cronic lying. Nobody on this blog has sent Ace a threatening email and nobody hates Ace's guts.
Let me ask you this. Do you have the password to my email account? No, you say? Then how exactly do you know what type of emails I get and don't get? Wait - you don't. You're the one lying. Grow up.
If Ace has received one email, let him publish the email. He would have already done so if this were true.
No. Like I previously mentioned, I don't address or reply to the hate messages. They are a waste my of time to deal with. And I certainly don't have to post the letters here for proof...otherwise I could type up my own letters of hate to myself...so if I posted anything, it still doesn't prove anything.
The only hatemail I've heard of has come from the deacons at Bellevue and a few staff.
And then you've heard of what I claimed to get. But, wait....Ace is talking so you automatically incorrectly assume that everything he says is a lie. You're truly pathetic.
I call on the blog administrator to stop publishing the filth and lies that spew from Ace.
I call on this too...too bad it's already in effect since I have never lied on this forum or provided "filth" unlike yourself.
Don't let Ace and his kind hijack this blog like they have Bellevue. We don't need to get down in the gutter with them. Truth is very hard for them to swallow so they try to divert with what they are good at, which is lying.
Well, well, well...look who's talking. Again, I have never lied on this forum. If you can PROVE that I did, I will retract that statement. Until then, my friend, you owe me an apology. You have absolutely no right to call me a liar. Again, I tell you to grow up. Start acting your age and quit crying.
swtt,
Let me clarify,
I meant to say, ' on the other side of mark sharpe's fence'
ace,
see?...i told you you were a hoot.
AllOfGrace,
see?...i told you you were a hoot.
Yes I see. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. :)
Now, I am getting off the computer to go do other things. I'm sorry I won't be spending the next few hours with you guys, I know that's such a disappointment for you.
Please don't cry, I'll be back soon, so no worries. Should you feel the need to cry, I hear that tissues are on sale at Walgreens....buy one get one free.
allofgrace's collection of "ace" jewels:
"grow up" "you're pathetic" "stop crying" "would a cookie make it better?" "I'm as fragile as a flower" "you're lying not me" "goodnight precious"
lol...you're the most entertaining person on this blog ace.
ace, memphis,
You made a good point. My goal has always been to present facts and evidence in the topic headings and reserve my personal opinions for comments. I'm trying to wear two hats, and sometimes it's difficult to separate the two roles (blogmaster and private citizen). Therefore, I have edited the topic heading to remove the one statement of personal opinion I made, and I'll repeat it below. Thank you for helping keep me in line!
NBBCOF
{Writer switches hats.}
This woman is a Bible Fellowship teacher of young women, and with ideas like these, to me, that is a very disturbing thought!
Note: Key word in that sentence is "ideas." It would be a disturbing thought to me that anyone with those ideas would be teaching SS, so it's not a personal attack on STL50.
NASS
Ace
Can you play any musical instruments?
aog,
I am so offended. I thought I was the most entertaining person on this blog. By the way, you are the hoot here, not Ace!!
Karen and aog, please send me your addresses. Hubby and I are coming to lunch and/or dinner with you guys tomorrow. We are on vacation and want some good food. hee hee
As to that dream, I would be really wondering if I was seeing a monk. With all this "contemplative spirituality and prayer" going on I would be concerned about myself if I was seeing a monk. Sounds buddhist to me!
Blessings,
Diana
Is the pastor who is posting on here now the same one who was prophesying against NASS? Just curious. Sounds like a completely different person to me.
For those of you who haven't read Brannon Howse's article on the front page of the SB website, at the very end he mentions checking the grape juice during Communion for Kool-Aid. Go Brannon go!!!!!!
Di
Lady Di,
I humbly stand corrected...you are the most entertaining person on the blog. But ace is still the court jester. :)
Once more on the emails: sheesh I didn't realize I had a PhD AND a fur coat..ok guys...who forgot to tell me that?
aog,
It is about time someone started addressing me properly! (Getting down off throne now)....
Glad to see we all still have our sense of humor.
Di
allofgrace wrote:
"I guess the most concerning part of the emails is that someone who got one or all of them might actually take it seriously."
Somehow I doubt anyone in the customer service department of Wells Fargo Bank is going to take any of them too seriously. That was just one out of the long string of e-mail addresses they were sent to. Something tells me Mike Spradlin, who was also on the list, isn't going to put much stock in them either.
NASS
just read the Brannon Howse article...frighteningly familiar. Who checks the koo..er uh...grape juice?
I, for one, wish Ace would publish the hate emails. I think that could be entertaining. He's gone to find something more productive to do though so I guess we won't be getting any of those tonight.
And no, I don't think it would be entertaining because I think it would be funny for Ace or anyone else to get hate mail. I think his idea of hate filled emails and mine would probably be different. I'm not a hateful person so don't anyone start that up.
Di
Di,
As ace would say..."grow up, stop crying, have a cookie precious"
Hey NASS,
Spradlin and Wells Fargo have probably been pushing the delete button a lot lately. heh heh heh Both are probably wondering how that got on that list.
aog,
I will never grow up or stop crying however a cookie is sounding really good right now. I have to load up before midnight because I have another one of those tests tomorrow where you can't eat or drink after 12:00. And for some stupid reason I took an allergy pill today and it makes me really thirsty. That is going to be a lot of fun. I'm going to be really hungry by the time I get to your place for lunch. Are we having scones with our turkey?
frankly i take exception to the nom de plume "faction"
tell ya what Di, I'll fix a plate for ya...no scones though...sorry....ask ace for a cookie :)
Ace needs to stop embarrasing himself and the other insiders who are surrounding SG in the inner circle.
Ace reminds me of Al Gore. Since nobody out here invented the ineternet and we don't know how many Ace's there are, how in the world could anyone send an email to someone they don't know, that doesn't even exist.
Ace cracks me up.
If I didn't know better, I've seen Ace on stage lately at Bellevue in one of the latest acts.
I wonder if Ace got a bigger raise in April than the rest?
Aog, if you are going to serve Lady Di, one would think you could cough up some scones or crumpets or something. I am having peanut butter fudge right now made by my beloved mother.
You have lost me - what in the world "faction" are you speaking of? Did Ace call you that?
swtt,
LOL
Di,
No...the sweet lady who wrote the emails..we're a faction...conspirators.
Nobody on this blog would ever send Ace an unpleasant email since everyone on this blog loves ACE.
Ace,
We love you and hope that you see the Light and Truth one day soon.
Methinks SWTT is trying to get us back on topic. Thanks for the monk story. That was some fascinating reading!!!
Di
actually I kinda like ace...in a quirky kinda way.
Ok swtt, give us something to chew on so we'll stop chewing on ace...or cookies and scones.
Oh, I forgot about the grandma emails. I read them awhile back and have already mostly forgotten about her. I guess we are all either conspiring FOR or AGAINST the Lord if she wants to put it that way.
There must be something great on tv. Everyone seems to have run off. I have to go as well. Goodnight AOG and SWTT!!! And the quiet ones out there in Blogland.
Diana
Yeah. A funny thing about the e-mails is that...
I can't recall the exact scripture off the top of my head but...didn't Jesus say he did not come to abolish the written laws that were being followed at the time?
Couldn't the same be said about this, where the laws of the land still have to be obeyed? Seems like those defending Gaines and his crew are forgetting that point.
here's a thought on billie's thoughts:
Everyone keeps telling us we're in the minority..that the majority do not share our views. If that's true...then why is she worried? We're "just a handful on this blog". How could we take over the "temple" at Bellevue?...wouldn't that be like a hunter trying to kill an elephant with a peashooter? Could it be that the fear is that we could actually be right?
allofgrace said...
allofgrace's collection of "ace" jewels:
"grow up" "you're pathetic" "stop crying" "would a cookie make it better?" "I'm as fragile as a flower" "you're lying not me" "goodnight precious"
lol...you're the most entertaining person on this blog ace.
7:07 PM, December 26, 2006
Here is my collection of Ace's jewelsI'll check on it,I have to search the facts.you are pathetic,you are mean, you are hateful, don't put words in my mouth.I didn't say that, I don't have the facts yet,you are hateful,you don't know .blogmaster they are picking on me,you quoting me out of context. quoting me out of context,precious,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,
Thanks Ace for entertaining us.
Lol, yes, that was a highlight of my Christmas weekend--finding out I have a wife! Man, she is going to be SO mad when i show up having forgotten not only our anniversary(ies?) but . . . um . . . her name.
Still, it's kinda cool. Most people get clothes for Christmas. I get a wife.
I'll now accept suggestions for my "wife's" name. Anyone feel free to vote.
custos,
I vote for Agnes of God, since she's a miracle wife :)
Below is an absurdly long post constituting my response to Billie. She has replied to me but i'll withhold her response until she releases me to publish it. I would not that she only responded to one question I posed: She said the only thing that would cause her to withdraw support from Dr Gaines is for him to declare himself a Calvinist. I fear there is a problem in priorities in there somewhere.
Dear Ms _______,
I’m writing in response to your correspondence to Nass dated December 23, 2006. In that letter you enumerated a number of points constituting what you referred to as a conspiracy. If you’d be gracious enough to grant me a few minutes, I’d like to clarify some of those points.
1. Dr. Michael was the only known person who did not stand to vote for Pastor Steve Gaines - eye witnesses to both services
I’m afraid this is incorrect. My family and others saw a number of people stay seated that day—many from the balconies. We stood and applauded rather excitedly as our new pastor and his family arrived.
2. Josh Manning mother was very out spoken that she disapproved of the music.
This is not true. My mother mentioned to some friends that she did not especially like the new direction with the music, but she also fairly noted regarding the music that hers was a matter of preference—not a matter of right and wrong or something over which to divide fellowship. Do you argue that one should not express preferences that diverge from church policy? Is it your contention that I have done what I’ve done because on a matter of preference--not right, wrong, or biblical doctrine--my mom simply doesn’t like the music as much as she did before?
3. Josh Manning started up the blog against the Pastor around the same time that his wife remodeled the Pastor's office. (sounds fishy)
This is incorrect on multiple levels. First, I’m not married. Second the pastor’s office was redecorated in late summer of 2005. I didn’t start blogging until a year later—August of 2006.
Third, while my mother did redecorate the pastor’s office, the idea that that might lead me to write, as you “against” him, does not make sense. What motivation would I have to write against one giving my family business unless I believed that writing was the right thing to do? In no way that I’m aware of can this comport with “fishiness.”
Fourth, my blog was not against the pastor. My blog dealt with issues—not individuals—surrounding Bellevue’s leadership and laity (but since issues find their expression in individuals, I can understand how a cursory reading might confuse someone). The comments section had posts from others dealing with the Pastor specifically, but to the best of my recollection, I didn’t post “against” Dr Gaines. Indeed, to this point, I am not “against” Dr Gaines (though he may be against me). I am “for” him. I don’t want his ministry to be marred by disenfranchisement, lack of transparency, and conduct unbecoming of a minister. Unfortunately, as others have tried to help him with this, he has exacerbated the situation. A reading of that blog may clarify this further.
4. Jim Whitmire upset because he was not properly acknowledged when he announced his retirement. Pastor Steve acknowledges his regrets publicly and personally to Dr. Whitmire.
. . . Dr Gaines belligerently, and I don’t use the word to inflame, told Dr Whitmire that he would either be forced into retirement or be placed in a lesser position, and this for no fault of his own. Dr Gaines asked Dr Whitmire if Dr Whitmire was “man enough” to do this. Further, Dr Gaines apology that he cited before the church recently was one that anyone would consider insincere at best and insulting at worst—consisting of an agitated “Ok, ok, I surrender! I apologize” or something to that effect. Dr Gaines citation of that apology makes sense only as a political paper tiger, especially given the fact that he has again met with Dr Whitmire and seemingly genuinely apologized, seeking true forgiveness
5. Germantown Baptist splits-Jim Whitmire, Michael Spradlin, Bob Sorrel, and choir members (who did not like change) joined them.
Bob Sorrell was retired, and GBC needed someone who could help rebuild their church’s administrative infrastructure. To my understanding, GBC asked him to join them. As did they ask Dr Whitmire to be their interim music minister and Dr Spradlin to be their interim pastor. Also, I fail to see how them not liking change (which itself seems unsubstantiated in your letter) is consistent with their moving to GBC since moving is fraught with change.
6. Mark Sharpe (deeply involved in money issues) decided to try to discredit the Pastor's integrity and the Pastor did as anyone would, he was hurt and upset, and let his feelings be known.
This is untrue regarding Mark Sharpe. I know Mark personally. He actually only went to the pastor originally after Richard Emerson had trouble obtaining documents from the administration. Sharpe has consistently stated that he only wants to foster more transparency and accountability in the church—how does asking for documents to be made available and asking for witnesses with conflicting stories to be brought together in a room so that the truth can be established (how does this) fit the definition of discrediting integrity? Would not fact contained in released documents have the potential to do that, not the person asking the documents to be released?
7. Jim Haywood takes over the web site (his character)
I’m not sure what website you’re talking about. If you refer to my blog, then he has never taken that over. I and I alone have sole editorially power of that site. As for savingbellevue.com, Mr Haywood started that on his own and has never taken it over from anyone.
8. For several months, well known to all members, the faction has been soliciting people to join them.
The implication seems to be that this is wrong, but wouldn’t any moral judgment about recruiting for something be based on the morality of that something? Said differently, is it wrong to recruit for a good cause? Surely neither of us would say so. Which would imply then that you contend our desires are wrong. But I have to ask what is wrong with asking for transparency and accountability?
9. The faction has been doing a broad investigation digging for dirt, could not find anything on the Pastor.
Well, I’m not sure this is completely accurate. The church will not release all the credit card records. Not releasing records to lay leaders is not a positive sign in my opinion. The records that have been inspected were only inspected by a select group of men. Of the men who inspected them, (at least) Craig Parker’s opinion on the records was twisted by Harry Smith.
The pastor has, according to testimony from multiple staff members, intimidated and threatened, and has lied to cover his own statements about the alleged demon possession of a church member. The administration refuses to bring these men together in a room with the pastor, witnesses, and legal authorities to get to the bottom of the accusations.
The pastor has insulted, berated, and demeaned members of his congregation who asked for accountability. He has also broken the law and made light of such lawbreaking, arguing the size of the transgression was such that it was insignificant.
He continues a pattern of only apologizing once the dull roar gets loud enough. We have yet, to my knowledge, received an apology for anything before the membership was shocked at certain of the pastor’s actions. In other words, he only seems to apologize after his error has come to the congregation’s attention. Surely that is the wrong order of things.
10. A past moral failure (aledged abuse) surfaced (one that had been by all indications thus far) dealt with over 17 years ago under the ministry of Dr. Adrian Rogers (believed so far to his unknowing)
The abuse is not only alleged, but admitted by both the child and the rapist. The issue was not “dealt with” 17 years ago, hence the minister’s continued presence at the church in a leadership position. Dr Rogers did not know about this as voiced by Joyce Rogers and Paul Williams himself.
10. Pastor Steve Gaines opposed the teaching of 5 point Calvinism, creating more people to join the Germantown mad crowd.
I don’t understand this point since it is predicated on the idea that something changed regarding the treatment of Calvinism under Dr Gaines versus its treatment under Dr Rogers. But this cannot be correct since Dr Rogers vehemently opposed Calvinism regularly. He was well-known among reformed circles as being an enemy of Calvinism. That said, the argument seems to fall apart.
11. The now President of Mid America is acting interim Pastor in Germantown Church.
This is true.
12. Several members from the Germantown Church have stated they do not enjoy his preaching and many have left the Church.
I have no doubt that that is true, but wouldn’t that be true under any circumstances? Is it truly possible to please all of the people? Arguing that certain people’s dislike of Dr Spradlin constitutes proof that something is wrong with his preaching etc can only make sense if you apply that same rubric to Dr Gaines. If you did that, you would have to conclude that since some don’t like Dr Gaines, he is wrong for BBC. I don’t think this is an argument that either of us would consider good. So we can’t determine Dr Spradlin’s fitness for GBC based solely on the fact that some don’t like him, much like we can’t make the same judgment about Dr Gaines.
13. The possible degrading of Dr. Rogers integrity has Mrs. Rogers upset (I agree with her fear because if Dr. Gaines goes down the integrity of Dr. Rogers will always be in question. (not by me)
This is true.
14. Fact are not known in the media because the investigation is not complete and the faction activist are acting as fast as they possibly can to, "stone" Pastor Steve Gaines to death. Why?
I don’t believe this is the case. There is no desire to stone Dr Gaines. A legal investigation is under way. Those who desire accountability from the leadership, do believe that this is a truly heinous error on Dr Gaines’ part. And for many among those, this has been the straw that broke the camel’s back—they believe that Dr Gaines has forfeited his right to lead this beloved church. Those who are pushing for investigation simply want the truth to come out and right to be done.
Conspiracy is now unfolding:
Pastor Steve Gaines has a heart for Jesus Christ and he takes a firm stand in his believe (mine, and thousands of others across this land) that Church should not be ran by, "Those with greatest wealth, those who are Ph.D. of Mid America, those who have had everything done, "their way or no way" for years, but instead be a Church for all the people to share equally. This is evident by the fact that he desired to equally blend the music. The faction against Christ teaching's of Dr. Stephen Gaines said (paraphrase) If that is the way you are going to be I do not want any part of you!
Inconsistent with what you cite as Dr Gaines’ position, is the composition of the de facto leadership of the church—Smith, Tucker, Taylor, and Company. While we would all hope that the church would be as you describe above, BBC is not. It wasn’t under Dr Rogers and it isn’t now.
As for MABTS, its professors do not have great wealth as you imply, nor have they had everything done their way (the reverse seems to be the case since BBC provides great funding for MABTS, not vice versa.
I hope that this has helped clarify some details. You obviously are very passionate about this and that is to be commended. I hope and pray that you will have a great zeal, but also a zeal tempered with knowledge.
If you would indulge me just a moment longer, I’d like to ask a quick question. What would it take for you to withdraw your support for Dr Gaines continuing to fill his current office? Put differently: Is there a point past which you could not continue to endorse Dr Gaines as pastor; and if so, what is it?
If you’d like to respond to my comments, you’re more than welcome to. If you’d like to respond to my questions only, I’ve provided them at the end of this letter for your convenience. Thank you for your time and indulgence.
Blessings in Christ,
Josh Manning
Questions from above:
1. Do you argue that one should not express preferences that diverge from church policy?
2. Is it your contention that I have done what I’ve done because on a matter of preference--not right, wrong, or biblical doctrine--my mom simply doesn’t like the music as much as she did before?
3. How does asking for documents to be made available and asking for witnesses with conflicting stories to be brought together in a room so that the truth can be established (how does this) fit the definition of discrediting integrity?
4. Would not fact contained in released documents have the potential to do that, not the person asking the documents to be released?
5. The implication seems to be that this (recruiting) is wrong, but wouldn’t any moral judgment about recruiting for something be based on the morality of that something? Said differently, is it wrong to recruit for a good cause? Surely neither of us would say so. Which would imply then that you contend our desires are wrong. But I have to ask what is wrong with asking for transparency and accountability?
6. [Your words] Several members from the Germantown Church have stated they do not enjoy his preaching and many have left the Church. [My question]I have no doubt that that is true, but wouldn’t that be true under any circumstances? Is it truly possible to please all of the people?
7. What would it take for you to withdraw your support for Dr Gaines continuing to fill his current office? Put differently: Is there a point past which you could not continue to endorse Dr Gaines as pastor; and if so, what is it?
Diana,
You mean to tell me you didn't get your fur coat and entitlement papers when you joined BBC? HMMM, must've gotten lost in the mail somehow.
AOG,
Did you get another email or are you referring to one that NASS posted?
Karen
Karen,
No the one posted already..ridiculous...she prolly has more money than me...which still isn't saying much.
ez,
Yea I know...I was just arguing from her apparent point of view.
trucker said...
allofgrace said...
allofgrace's collection of "ace" jewels:
"grow up" "you're pathetic" "stop crying" "would a cookie make it better?" "I'm as fragile as a flower" "you're lying not me" "goodnight precious"
lol...you're the most entertaining person on this blog ace.
7:07 PM, December 26, 2006
Here is my collection of Ace's jewelsI'll check on it,I have to search the facts.you are pathetic,you are mean, you are hateful, don't put words in my mouth.I didn't say that, I don't have the facts yet,you are hateful,you don't know .blogmaster they are picking on me,you quoting me out of context. quoting me out of context,precious,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,God annointed him,God Annointed him,
Thanks Ace for entertaining us
Nice collection there, wouldn't you say trucker?..lol
Agnes. Nice suggestion AOG.
Billie,
If you are reading this, I understand your excitement about the path being cleared to build a "house of prayer" now that Paul Williams has been exposed (pardon the expression).
You stated that since PW was the minister of prayer, this is the main reason why the "house of prayer" was not constructed. Perhaps now, we can build a huge rising tower of prayer for all to pray in.
I want to remind you however that Steve Gaines is one Southern Baptist Pastor that doesn't give much respect for Wednesday night Prayer Meeting.
He's been here approximately 65 Wednesday nights and he's participated in how many of these 65 prayer meetings? Maybe 5. That may be generous.
I always thought the most important part of the church was Wednesday night prayer meeting. The foundation of the church is built on prayer. It's not built on preaching to 18 year olds on Thursday nights. It's not built on traveling all over the creation preaching at other churches for money.
When Steve Gaines told the Bellevue members why he didn't preach on Wednesday nights, he summed up his thoughts on prayer as far as I'm concerned.
In fact, after the church gave him a standing ovation for not preaching on Wednesday nights, that pretty much summed up our thoughts as a church of what we think about prayer.
I know $30,000,000 in the bank can build a really nice "House of Prayer", but I'd rather give the money away in other areas of ministry.
One last thing Billie, I really hope you take a leave of absence from teaching. You seem to be a little up tight at the moment. This can't be good for anyone sitting under your teaching.
Josh,
Please remind me in case I forget:
1. Never to get in a argument with you; and
2. If I ever do anything that would require a lawyer, I want you on retainer.
karen
ATTENTION:
Newest letter has just been published on the front page, right below the others. Also, still working on getting more bandwidth to get the topic heading back down to a manageable size. Thanks for your patience.
NBBCOF
Ace argues like a girl !!! Check it out. I think she is a Gaines girl.
ACE said
Like I previously posted, I am very fragile. You know, like a delicate flower...
SWTT said
Ace and SG are obviously from the same bent. SG says anyone who blogs is a kook and a coward. This is the same babble from Ace. If you didn't know any better, they are one in the same.
allofgrace said
allofgrace's collection of "ace" jewels:
"grow up" "you're pathetic" "stop crying" "would a cookie make it better?" "I'm as fragile as a flower" "you're lying not me" "goodnight precious"
trucker said
Here is my collection of Ace's jewels: I'll check on it, I have to search the facts, you are pathetic, you are mean, you are hateful, don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that, I don't have the facts yet, you are hateful, you don't know, blogmaster they are picking on me, you're quoting me out of context, quoting me out of context,precious, God annointed him, God Annointed him, God annointed him, God Annointed him, God annointed him, God Annointed him, God annointed him, God Annointed him, God annointed him, God Annointed him, God annointed him, God Annointed him,
Churchmouse says: remember, Donna Gaines told Steve that she and the girls were fragile like little flowers? He said that in a sermon.
I am sorry I cannot help myself, must be the fruit cake kicking in...
Steve Gaines has retold an experience he had while leading a tour group to the Holy Land.
In this story, his group is at the Garden of Gethsemane and he's wanted to pray at the "rock" for years. The "rock" where Jesus supposedly prayed is proteced by some kind of barrier to keep people from getting close to it.
A barrier, that's swanky talk for fence, right? Oh, and don't tell anyone it's a fake rock like they have at Disney World, it'll spoil the mood.
In this experience, he finds himself looking at a man dressed like a monk, motioning for him to come over to the rock. The man's face can't be seen. He's dressed in a black robe including cover over his head.
Like in Animal House?
Nobody else saw the monk, but SG tells of going over to the rock and kneeling while praying for an undetermined amount of time.
A dream about jumping a fence?
Then, a guard interrupts his prayer by tapping him on the shoulder. The guard says, you can't be here. How did you get over here? Get back.
It was an itty bitty barrier.
Steve Gaines says, "It's ok. The monk said I could come over here and pray." Then the guard asks him, "what monk", and SG replys "the guy dressed in black".
Steve pleads it was a mistake of the head, not the heart.
The guard then tells him there is no monk and to get back immediately.
At which point he calls the guard Hezbollah, which could actually be true in this instance.
Josh,
The name I pick for your wife:
Chloe
I Cor. 11-12 (The Message)
I bring this up because some from Chloe's family brought a most disturbing report to my attention—that you're fighting among yourselves! I'll tell you exactly what I was told: You're all picking sides, going around saying, "I'm on Paul's side," or "I'm for Apollos," or "Peter is my man," or "I'm in the Messiah group."
Thought it was appropriate - check out http://christiananswers.net/dictionary/women.html
karen :)
Josh,
The name I pick for your wife:
Billie
bin wonderin said...
At which point he calls the guard Hezbollah, which could actually be true in this instance.
TRULY a soda spewing moment if there ever was one!!!!!!!!!!
karen
bin wondering,
That is just wrong! :)
karen
The report that continuation of support to MABTS was conditioned on an apology from Dr. Spradlin, if true, is befuddling at best.
On one hand, Dr. Gaines approves $25,000 for a UMC church that is pro-choice, pro-female pastors and pro-gay.... and on the otherhand funds are subject to being withdrawn from a solid SB seminary based upon a personal offense taken by Dr. Gaines over an issue that is not doctrinal.
Why not rise above this, Dr. Gaines, and allow Dr. Spradlin's comment to go unchallenged as his right to express his opinion? Why threaten the education and training of godly seminary students?
How is the kingdom of God advanced by either supporting the liberal church or defunding MABTS?
Billie seems to be very preoccupied with Calvinism and the dangers therein.
Is it okay that a pastor is greedy, lies, mistreats people, and breaks the law?
Just thank goodness he's not a Calvinist?
Hey folks,
When I went to Union University in the late 80s, my Old Testament professor told us about "They Babaloynian Myth" and from what I recall it had something to do with Lilith, who was supposed to be Adam's 2nd wife. From what I understand, UU is no longer teaching such things, but is this a Calvinistic view? Just wondering - I really don't remember too much about that class because I dropped it - it bothered me too much to listen to the garbage the professor was spewing.
karen
EXCELLENT POST FROM ANOTHERONEPRAYING
(standing ovation with whooping and hollering) :)
Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't even know what Calvinism is. lol.
I'll get your answers tomorrow - I'm tired and am going to bed!
karen
Name for Custos's wife:
Integritas -- because she does count. 8^)
Check this out, particularly the entry from 12/23.
I understand there was an insert in the Bellevue Today bulletin Sunday morning that was a statement by Steve Gaines. If anyone has that, can you please scan it and send it to me at the e-mail address on the profile? The Bellevue Today is on the bellevue.org site, but they don't include the inserts.
Thanks,
NBBCOF
What is poor Billie going to do when she gets to heaven and there stands Calvin with his arm around Arminius?
She will support Gaines in ANYTHING except if he claims to believe in Election. That just about sums it up, folks.
Harbor a pedophile, fine. Believe in election, horrible!
Wonder how she handles Romans 3 in SS?
Perhaps Billie was not predestined to be a Calvinist.
Ya think?
ok guys..here it is...karen...adam didn't have a second wife...no,that's not calvinism...calvinists aren't dangerous..i'm one...i'm a teddy bear...koragg, if you want to know what calvinism is visit my blog..sbdiscussionforum.blogspot.com...we talk about this kinda stuff...i'm sure billie wasn't predestined to be a calvinist.
esther,
If you're interested in joining the discussions you're welcome to join as well.
Lol, I love the suggestions. Right now I'm thinking about picking Lilith even though it wasn't a suggestion. I mean, since she didn't exist and my wife doesn't either, it makes sense as her name. Of course, Lilith was Fraiser Crane's wife too and she was an ice-cube in heels which is no good.
Karen, lol. Thanks. It helps when truth is on your side. =)
Also, Bin, you're a very bad person! =)
G'night folks.
My thoughts after reading "Billie/sendthelight's" letters:
Isaiah 5.20-21
20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
and shrewd in their own sight!
Oh, wait! Those aren't my thoughts, those are God's - sorry.
Sheesh!
I once attended a discussion group for Calvinists and Arminians. Unfortunately I arrived late and the meeting had already begun with the two groups evenly divided and huddled on either side of the room.
As I approached the Calvin supporters their spokesman asked why I was there. I explained I saw two groups and decided to join theirs. The Calvinist promptly declared no one could join their group based on their own free will and sent me to the Arminians.
As I approached the Arminians they were pleased to see me. Alas, when they realized I had been sent to their group and had not freely chosen them I was denied acceptance.
I would up in a Sunday School class taught by Miss Billie.
bin,
you would "up" in billie's SS class?
ahhh....wound?...sheesh.
Will Bishop,
If you happen to see this, would you please track me down on facebook? I'd love to catch up since it's been ages. Thank you for your writing so strongly.
Best,
Josh Manning
bin,
you would "up" in billie's SS class?
Oops. Wound up in Billie's class.
Spell check is great, but I really need "thought check".
i just read billie's last letter to josh...just as i thought...she doesn't understand calvinism anymore than a man in the moon. actually calvinism is just a nickname for the doctrines of grace..good grief...worship John Calvin?...give me a break. She also needs to read up on SBC history if she thinks those beliefs just sprang up in the SBC.
she's going to have to explain these men...
John Broadus, James Pedigru Boyce, Basil Manly Sr., Basil Manly Jr., RBC Howell, John L Dagg..on and on and on...all early SBCers...all calvinists.
Someone help me out, please. What is " election'.
Thanks
fedupatbbc,
Here's a good website for you to find some info...Founders.org...then you can drop by sbdiscussionforum.blogspot.com...join the discussions sometime.
In response to Karen's comment to me:
memphis,
sendthelight has embarrassed herself - she needs no other help from you or anyone else.
I never offered her any help one way or the other, in fact I do not believe I even commented on anything she wrote.
I've kept some emails to myself for the very fact they spew hate DIRECTLY AT ME! I refuse to send them to NASS - the one I did send was so bizarre, I had to get confirmation that I wasn't the one who was going crazy.
I am not asking you to do anything with those emails.
If you want hate filled speech, I have her emails. If you want to see them to bolster your "cause", please email me, reveal who you are and I will gladly share them with you.
My cause? Are you sure you read my post right? All I asked was that people follow the moderators suggestion and not post about her personally.
If not, be careful who you support - you have no idea what she's capable of.
Really not sure what you mean there.
I'm not saying I have any idea either, but I bet Wayne Vandersteeg, (don't know) Mike Spradlin,(met him once) Wayne Addison,(don't know) John Bramlett,(don't know) Josh Manning,(don't know) NASS,(don't know) the Adult Ministry at BBC,(alot of people there) Christian Publishers,(don't know) Jamie Fish,(met him once) Webb Williams,(met him once) Doyal Long,(baptized my wife) Larry Ray (OK I know him)and about 100 others she has bothered with these silly emails. Go ask these people; I have the emails with their addresses on them.
Again, I had no postition on what she wrote in my post one way or another.
NASS, Thank you for your post and making a correction. I know sometimes when I write things, my brain moves faster than my fingers. ( I know that opened myself up to alot of comments, but I can take it.)
Hope you all had a Merry Christmas
Chuck (Ace)! Is that you?
If BBC has 30,000 Members and only 500 showed up this past wednesday to hear SG give his word that he loves Mike Spradlin and that BBC will always be committed to supporting MABTS, how many people showed non-support for not showing up on an important evening... 29,500?
bbc refugee
The flip side to that is the fact that only 500 showed up to hear him make his 'pledge' to mabts and mike spradlin. 29,500 folks don't know that he is now going back on his word, and furthermore, won't believe he ever pledged it. Oh sure, they could get the audio from the library, but we have learned by now that the sheeple don't bother to discern for themselves. They just follow and swallow.
fedupatbbc,
sad but true
ez,
yup..he nailed it didn't he?
ez and aog,
Well, at the VERY least, he isn't getting to enjoy it as much as he would have due to this blog.
ez,
that's what i call REAL authority...not a position..the authority of the Word of God.
fedup,
I sure hope not.
Just thinking, too bad the folks at Gardendale didn't think to have a blog for themselves during the past 5 years. Things might have turned out much differently.
When (if) we ever run him off, all a search committee has to do is read over these blogs. Ol SG might be permanently looking for a job.
But I suppose he could always go to work as a tour guide.
fedup,
not our job to run him off...God will do that if it's His will..our job is to stand on the truth.
"When (if) we ever run him off,"
That comment says alot.
AOG,
You are absolutely right. I spoke out of frustration.
ez, fedup,
Keep your chins up...God is bigger than all this..He's bigger than our hearts. He's shaking the wrinkles out of His bride..the SBC is under some judgement right now I think...but if we as a denomination repent...He'll bind up the wounds.
ez,
Then where do we go from here. Will it EVER be any different. Are we in the last days.
Scales on so many eyes these days. What I see as an absolute, many folks just make excuses for the sin. I don't understand how they sould sit under Dr. R. and not understand that sin is sin.
guys,
Remember He said He'd shake whatever can be shaken...He always has a faithful remnant..don't forget that..what can be shaken will reveal what's of Him.
ez wrote
Yep, real authority. A sermon like that one at BBC these days would have the doors swinging of the hinges.
*
The doors swinging which way, coming or going?
President Ford has died.
Ms. Billie,
I post as Piglet, but in reality I am Steve Gaines.
I am a Calvinist.
Please stop trying to help me.
Fedup, you know they usually say famous people die in threes (James Brown, Pres Ford, ????)
folks,
listen to me...don't lose faith..whatever happens at BBC...God is still God..He's God today...He'll be God tomorrow..if your His child, He won't abandon you. You're under his wings.
piglet,
ROFL
TRULY LAUGHING OUT LOUD
piglet,
LOL
AllOfGrace,
allofgrace's collection of "ace" jewels:
"grow up" "you're pathetic" "stop crying" "would a cookie make it better?" "I'm as fragile as a flower" "you're lying not me" "goodnight precious"
lol...you're the most entertaining person on this blog ace.
Thanks for the laugh...really (I'm being serious!)
As ace would say..."grow up, stop crying, have a cookie precious"
This made me laugh even harder!
Piglet,
Can you play any musical instruments?
Yes.
well guys it's like this...in this world you will have trouble...but take heart..He's overcome the world
ace,
glad to see you've kept your humor
Diana,
I, for one, wish Ace would publish the hate emails. I think that could be entertaining.
And just what exactly would we accomplish by me doing that?
I think his idea of hate filled emails and mine would probably be different.
Err...probably not in this situation.
ez,
We pulled that lever on sunday when we worshipped at gbc. Not a single standing ovation. Mike Spradlin did not taylor make the sermon to serve himself.
It was refreshing to hear the Word of God spoken by a man of God, a man of integrity, a man who has the courage to stand for truth. Apparently, that is rare these days.
Swtt,
Ace needs to stop embarrasing himself and the other insiders who are surrounding SG in the inner circle.
I'm not embarrasing myself or anyone else. Just because I hit a sore spot with my last post to you, it'll all be okay, alright? So chill out.
If I didn't know better, I've seen Ace on stage lately at Bellevue in one of the latest acts.
But you know better, right?
Nobody on this blog would ever send Ace an unpleasant email since everyone on this blog loves ACE.
Everyone loves me? Pfft, yeah right.
Churchmouse,
Ace argues like a girl !!! Check it out. I think she is a Gaines girl.
I am a guy. That throws this scenario out the window...sorry.
but he is as fragile as a flower
Ace,
I thought you signed off earlier...you had things to do..but you are back.
Did you finish polishing SG's ring so soon.
Allofgrace,
but he is as fragile as a flower
Exactly. Finally some people are starting to get it!
FedUp,
I thought you signed off earlier...you had things to do..but you are back.
That was over 4 hours ago...I am back much to the delight of you and others. You know, deep down inside you love seeing my posts. Go ahead and admit it...it'll make you feel better on the inside. :)
ace,
I think it's you who likes us...go on..admit...you like us..that's why you keep coming back here :)
Ace
Are your initials A.C.E.?
plays dragnet theme for piglet...da da da don
The ACE Fan Club!
AllOfGrace,
I think it's you who likes us...go on..admit...you like us..that's why you keep coming back here :)
Well, I came back tonight because I had some extra Christmas cookies left over and thought some people over here might be interested in them.
Piglet,
Are your initials A.C.E.?
Hmm...deep question....but a good one. I'd rather not answer that publicly, so I'll let you ponder that instead. Cheers
AOL
shhhh..you're blowing my cover:/
ace...man of mystery...lol ...and cookies.
Sorry - last post was to AOG.
It's getting late.
yes it is...ace...go to bed precious.
AllOfGrace,
yes it is...ace...go to bed precious.
I actually might do that soon. I have to work a double shift and Burger King tomorrow.
At Burger King, rather...
g'nite all..ace, burger king will make you fat
Ace
If you're still up,I'd like your thoughts on my 1:31 post today...
If not, sweet dreams.
We have a pastor that is saying mercy and grace.
Actually we have a pastor that is asking for mercy and grace for himself and those that support him.
It doesn't look like the mercy and grace should be extended to those that oppose him; Dr. spradlin, case if fact.
Apostacy in action
Piglet,
In regards to your 1:31 post...I don't think God is going to let Ace + other people clapping from stopping Him and His plans, do you?
My God is bigger than that.
After reading grandma's series of letters, her appallingly poor and self serving use of the Bible, and her statement that the Holy Spirit told her what the Holy Spirit was telling Adrian Rogers, one can only conlude that you longsuffering Bellevue members are dealing with mindless, mystical fringe element of people there.
To folks like her Steve Gaines is a rock star to be revered.
You have my sympathy from this distance.
waybackbbc,
What we have is a failure to take in the WHOLE counsel of God. We have God is love...God gives grace and mercy..God forgives...all true...but they've left out..God is a consuming fire...God is a righteous judge...God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud..God commands that all men everywhere repent...but as ezekiel said...that doesn't fill the pews or the offering plates.
It was said that in a Deacons Meeting last year, after Katrina, Steve Gaines announced that HE sent a check (a BBC check of course) to New Orleans Seminary. He also stated he planned to send much more in 2007. Can someone explain to me how he could just walk in in send 75k+ over there without some kind of approval? Can any Deacon verify they voted on this sum of money? Did he follow through this year on his intent to send over 200K?
See the below extract from Bellevue Grandma(sendthelight50's) letter. Do you need any further evidence that verifies the recent post on cults in evangelical churchs that Jim Haywood just linked to on his site? Is there any sin or "mistake of the mind" that this pastor can commit before people will lay down their pom-poms? Criminal and unethical behavior okay as long as you say "sorry", but don't you DARE be a Calvinist. Is this the legacy that Dr. Rogers left us that we are unable to be discerning of the character of men? Is she also giving all the criminals in the world a "get out of jail free card"? (Just say "I'm sorry").
<-FG, not only feeling like a visitor in his church but also starting to feel like a visitor on the planet earth...>
Bellevue Grandma (sendthelight5))said in her letter..I can tell you that the one and only way that Dr. Steve Gaines can lose my support is by standing in the pulpit of Bellevue Baptist Church and say, "I did not mean what I said the first number of sermons that I preached from this pulpit this statement, "I am not a Calvinist, I am one" Then and only then will he lose my support as far as I and countless others are concerned ALL of these points that you and your crowd point out are merely sins that people commit every day and when confessed they are, "Under the Blood of Jesus"
ace said...
I have to work a double shift at Burger King tomorrow.
Ace, you are way to classy a guy to be working at BK, I bet you really work at Chick-fil-A...or Outback Steakhouse!
SG stood before 150-500 faithfull followers (out of 30,000 members who obviously do not share their koolaid) and professed his love for Dr Spradlin and MABTS. He said that BBC will continue to support MABTS.
Then in private, Brian Miller, (the new SG enforcer), shares with Dr Spradlin that BBC will be re-considering their support of MABTS. Obviously, Dr Spradlin was not able to be manipulated or coerced to drink from the cup. In some circles, this would be considered Blackmail.
These men are so clever and calculated. Who doesn't believe the speach and the meeting were calculated moves. Since Brian Miller did SG bidding, (I believe SG was actually talking, Brian was just moving his mouth), SG can attempt to say he did not renege, it was the new Chairman of the Deacons' idea...he he he
Do you remember how Bill Clinton allowed all of his faithful to do his bidding? He allowed all of them to defend him keeping the truth himself?
guys...
there were more than 500 people there on "that" wednesday night. I was there. The paper got it wrong. Besides, all this talk about "lining up numbers on one side or another" is wrong for a multitude of reasons. While I'm on this issue, if anyone got the "Book of Adrianisms" for Christmas, like I did (thank you Mrs. FG!), if you will turn to page 167 (I think, i'll confirm tonight), there is a quote from the former Pastor Emeritis about not following the Majority, "as the Majority is often wrong." I'll confirm page and exact quote tonight.
Is everyone aware that our Sr high kids are in Gatlinburg right now with SG as their camp pastor? When we found out that SG was going to be the pastor, my children said never mind to the camp. The parents that I personally know that have gone are pretty much people that are just following with various reasons, scales, koolaid drinking, hearing it but ignoring it. It all just blows me away. So far none of these friends sound quite like Billie, but who knows how they will feel after this camp.
FinanceGuy said...
guys...
there were more than 500 people there on "that" wednesday night.
That is interesting. I thought 500 was being generous since it actually looked like 150...
Besides, all this talk about "lining up numbers on one side or another" is wrong for a multitude of reasons.
That is a wonderful point!!!
If I remember correctly, it was Chuck Taylor who said "Look at all the people in the seats, look at or giving which is up 30%...Can God be displeased with BBC?" From the very beginning, all these people have talked about is an assumed majority. Interetingly, I have not heard about giving or attendance lately. Did BBC reach the 7,777 goal on high attendance Sunday?
While I'm on this issue, if anyone got the "Book of Adrianisms" for Christmas,
I have an Adrianism for you...
"What's down in the well comes up in the bucket"...Thank you Dr Rogers.
youthmomma
Concerning the trip to Gatlinburg:
I was worrying about this last night. I do know some (adults) who were committed to go and went, and said they wanted an opportunity to watch him closeup. I just hope they don't fall under his spell...
Ace
Let's say God threw a pebble at SG to get his attention. But the crowd around SG was so loud, and he was enjoying the accolades so much that he ignored the pebble.
I'd be concerned that next God might throw a brick.
I've seen Him do it before.
piglet,
Regarding your brick comment - I had a vision of Homer Simpson! D'OH! :)
Karen
bellevue friend said...
I am curious is the attendance down at Bellevue? Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't it routine for Bellevue to run around 9- 10,000 in the two morning services?
On bellevue.org there is a full report on how the Fellowship Hall had to be used on Sunday because of the overflow of people. I'm not impressed because it's going to be like that when you combine 2 services and add in guests of member and the once a year crowd (for whom I am grateful!). The crowd probably included the Spanish speaking Bella Vista people as well.
So to say the service was overwhelmingly full is accurate; that doesn't constitue everyone there being in full adoration of Steve Gaines and I wish those in leadership would realize that.
karen
Piglet
I'm glad to know there are some discerning adults going. I just didn't know of any personally.
Karen,
You are correct that several years ago, we were averaging 9-10 thousand on Sunday morning.
For the past 3 months, we could have gone to one service and accomodated all the worship service attendees.
When you figure the church reports 1,500 new members this past year, you got to believe a lot of folks who were here under Adrian Rogers are not attending now.
We are averaging about 6,500-7,000 now which is down over 20% from a year ago when Steve arrived.
Since this is down about 2,500-3000 and we've had 1,500 new members, then you could say that we may be down 3,500-4,000 memebers that were here during Adrian Rogers.
This number here won't necessarily bother Steve Gaines and company. If you look at the playbook, getting rid of this many members (truthseekers) is a good thing. Perhaps Donna's comment someone posted may have a specific meaning.
It will be interesting to see what develops after the first of the year after the DA announces his findings and we see if there are other things God chooses to expose.
When God's light is shining on darkness, it exposes sin. I pray this continues until Bellevue is refined. Now is the time to stand for righteousness
May the Lord strengthen all truthseekers for the new year.
I have considered all of Grandma Billie's correspondence and have many thoughts. However, I have decided not to respond to her every point. I see no need to defend Josh, Mark, and Dr. Spradlin from her distortions for this has already been eloquently accomplished.
Of all Grandma Billie’s writings, I am most bemused by her rantings against Calvinism. I fail to see any connection between Calvinism and this present crisis in our fellowship. Contrary to what she may believe, we have not adopted a “Calvinists Only” position. I seek to hold BBC leaders to a standard of truth, integrity, and accountability alongside Calvinists and Arminians. Undoubtedly some hold positions somewhere between the two extremes. Some may even be hyper-Calvinists, while others might hold positions that would make Pelagius proud.
Some of us have indeed discussed the Doctrines of Grace in the forum, but only in an academic manner. Not once has anyone I know condemed Dr. Gaines, either in writing herein or in direct discourse, for his anti-Calvinist stance. This is an issue where our church, and indeed our denomination, must agree to disagree. Each one of you is part of the body of Christ, and you were chosen to live together in peace. So let the peace that comes from Christ control your thoughts. And be grateful (Colossians 4:15) .
Grandma Billie said: I along with numerous others prayed intently and passionately for years that Dr. Rogers would stand in the pulpit and say what he stated to me personally, "I am not a Calvinist" but for what ever reason God did not give Dr. Rogers this battle to fight.
Grandma Billie must have missed Dr. Rogers public comments on this issue. I do not know if Dr. Rogers ever stood in the pulpit and uttered the exact phrase she desired, but I do know he was an outspoken critic of Calvinism and he was concerned about its rise in the SBC. In fact, in 2000 he published a booklet on the matter entitled "Predestined for Hell? Absolutely Not."
Grandma Billie said: I believe as John Calvin believed that if you accept even one point of his tulip you are accepted as a Calvinist.
On October 16, 2005. Dr. Gaines preached a sermon entitled “I Believe in Salvation.” In that sermon he discussed the main points of Calvinism, which are summarized by the acronym TULIP:
• Total depravity
• Unconditional election
• Limited atonement
• Irresistible grace
• Perserverance of the saints.
Dr. Gaines said, “I am not a five-point Calvinist. I don’t believe that points three and four {limited atonement and irresistible grace} are in the Bible.” By implication he endorsed points one, two and five. Even if that was not his intention, he said perserverance of the saints is just another way to say “once saved always saved.” Perseverance of saints, to Calvinists and to traditional Southern Baptists, means that once people are saved, they will remain saved. Nothing can reverse the new birth they have experienced; they cannot fall away from God's grace. I’m sure Dr. Gaines agrees with Calvinists on at least this one point.
Based on all the evidence and Grandma Billie’s definition, Dr. Gaines is one of those evil Calvinists she so despises.
My prayer from the moment I became aware of this crisis was that God would open my eyes to the truth, wherever it might fall and regardless of consequences. I am not a blind follower of any man or any group of men, whether Bellevue’s leadership or Mark Sharpe’s ragtag little army. I now pray that same prayer for discernment for all concerned with Bellevue Baptist Church.
Bellevue, do not grow discouraged by the attitude of Grandma Billie and those like her. Though many of you disagree with her, remember she is not our enemy for we wrestle not against flesh and blood... (Eph 6:12). In order that you might remain steadfast in your walk pray without ceasing. In everything give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you (1 Thes. 5:17). And remember to prove all things, hold fast that which is good (1 Thes. 5:21).
Spurgeon said, “By perseverance the snail reached the ark.” Persevere Bellevue! Morning always follows night.
The truth is the truth even if the Billie does not like it. But even a pastor should take correction. We are to speak to someone like him like we will a father. The L-RD does not say never correct them. Pastor Gaines did a big mistake Billie when he did not take action against Paul Williams a child molester. Pastor doing nothing is sin, I hate it. I knew Paul Williams is not good, I know what he had done in 2003 now I understand why he acted the way he did. Now everybody knows he is not good. I am not damming PW, but he did not do good. I now understand why he Paul Williams did what he did in 03, but it makes me wonder why Pastor Gaines not took immediate action against a child molester, it is sin. Guess what Billie even Christians who murder, extortion ,or prostitution, or robbery that includes torture of people in any way physically must report it. You can not say oh well he is pastor or any layman who works at a church or anywhere and say I am not telling. Or with hold information of any crime is punishable by the laws of our USA, not only child molester must be reported, but if anyone knows of any crime. This site should not be, but Pastor Gaines, and all authority there should have dealt with the problem immediately as the laws of our county tell them, our Government is still an authority that Pastor Gaines has to listen to. What do some people at BBC want people in church to do murder, torture, extortion, robbery, prostitution, can you think of the other examples in the Bible what G-d’s people did.
G-d’s People even involved themselves in demonic activity is all these and more. The scripture is given to use for examples as a warning for us, not for us to look down on them. But to fear G-d and keep his commandments.
What BBC what to do? Do nothing against those who break the commandment of the
L-RD our G-d and get away with it because they are in authority, do you Billie believe that is G-d’s will for BBC?
This blog and others outside have shed false light on many different issues and raised doubts in some members/non-members minds. That is the main reason for any decrease in attendance.
1 Samuel 2:12 Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the LORD.
13And the priest's custom with the people was, that, when any man offered sacrifice, the priest's servant came, while the flesh was in seething, with a fleshhook of three teeth in his hand;
14And he struck it into the pan, or kettle, or caldron, or pot; all that the fleshhook brought up the priest took for himself. So they did in Shiloh unto all the Israelites that came thither.
15Also before they burnt the fat, the priest's servant came, and said to the man that sacrificed, Give flesh to roast for the priest; for he will not have sodden flesh of thee, but raw.
16And if any man said unto him, Let them not fail to burn the fat presently, and then take as much as thy soul desireth; then he would answer him, Nay; but thou shalt give it me now: and if not, I will take it by force.
17Wherefore the sin of the young men was very great before the LORD: for men abhorred the offering of the LORD.
18But Samuel ministered before the LORD, being a child, girded with a linen ephod.
19Moreover his mother made him a little coat, and brought it to him from year to year, when she came up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.
20And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife, and said, The LORD give thee seed of this woman for the loan which is lent to the LORD. And they went unto their own home.
21And the LORD visited Hannah, so that she conceived, and bare three sons and two daughters. And the child Samuel grew before the LORD.
22Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel; and how they lay with the women that assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
23And he said unto them, Why do ye such things? for I hear of your evil dealings by all this people.
1 Samuel 2
24Nay, my sons; for it is no good report that I hear: ye make the LORD's people to transgress.
25If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD would slay them.
26And the child Samuel grew on, and was in favour both with the LORD, and also with men.
27And there came a man of God unto Eli, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Did I plainly appear unto the house of thy father, when they were in Egypt in Pharaoh's house?
28And did I choose him out of all the tribes of Israel to be my priest, to offer upon mine altar, to burn incense, to wear an ephod before me? and did I give unto the house of thy father all the offerings made by fire of the children of Israel?
29Wherefore kick ye at my sacrifice and at mine offering, which I have commanded in my habitation; and honourest thy sons above me, to make yourselves fat with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people?
30Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.
31Behold, the days come, that I will cut off thine arm, and the arm of thy father's house, that there shall not be an old man in thine house.
32And thou shalt see an enemy in my habitation, in all the wealth which God shall give Israel: and there shall not be an old man in thine house for ever.
33And the man of thine, whom I shall not cut off from mine altar, shall be to consume thine eyes, and to grieve thine heart: and all the increase of thine house shall die in the flower of their age.
34And this shall be a sign unto thee, that shall come upon thy two sons, on Hophni and Phinehas; in one day they shall die both of them.
35And I will raise me up a faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in mine heart and in my mind: and I will build him a sure house; and he shall walk before mine anointed for ever.
36And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left in thine house shall come and crouch to him for a piece of silver and a morsel of bread, and shall say, Put me, I pray thee, into one of the priests' offices, that I may eat a piece of bread.
1 Samuel 3
11And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle.
12In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house: when I begin, I will also make an end.
13For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.
14And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.
1 Samuel 24
1And it came to pass, when Saul was returned from following the Philistines, that it was told him, saying, Behold, David is in the wilderness of Engedi.
2Then Saul took three thousand chosen men out of all Israel, and went to seek David and his men upon the rocks of the wild goats.
3And he came to the sheepcotes by the way, where was a cave; and Saul went in to cover his feet: and David and his men remained in the sides of the cave.
4And the men of David said unto him, Behold the day of which the LORD said unto thee, Behold, I will deliver thine enemy into thine hand, that thou mayest do to him as it shall seem good unto thee. Then David arose, and cut off the skirt of Saul's robe privily.
5And it came to pass afterward, that David's heart smote him, because he had cut off Saul's skirt.
6And he said unto his men, The LORD forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the LORD's anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the LORD.
7So David stayed his servants with these words, and suffered them not to rise against Saul. But Saul rose up out of the cave, and went on his way.
8David also arose afterward, and went out of the cave, and cried after Saul, saying, My lord the king. And when Saul looked behind him, David stooped with his face to the earth, and bowed himself.
9And David said to Saul, Wherefore hearest thou men's words, saying, Behold, David seeketh thy hurt?
10Behold, this day thine eyes have seen how that the LORD had delivered thee to day into mine hand in the cave: and some bade me kill thee: but mine eye spared thee; and I said, I will not put forth mine hand against my lord; for he is the LORD's anointed.
11Moreover, my father, see, yea, see the skirt of thy robe in my hand: for in that I cut off the skirt of thy robe, and killed thee not, know thou and see that there is neither evil nor transgression in mine hand, and I have not sinned against thee; yet thou huntest my soul to take it.
12The LORD judge between me and thee, and the LORD avenge me of thee: but mine hand shall not be upon thee.
13As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: but mine hand shall not be upon thee.
14After whom is the king of Israel come out? after whom dost thou pursue? after a dead dog, after a flea.
15The LORD therefore be judge, and judge between me and thee, and see, and plead my cause, and deliver me out of thine hand.
16And it came to pass, when David had made an end of speaking these words unto Saul, that Saul said, Is this thy voice, my son David? And Saul lifted up his voice, and wept.
17And he said to David, Thou art more righteous than I: for thou hast rewarded me good, whereas I have rewarded thee evil.
18And thou hast shewed this day how that thou hast dealt well with me: forasmuch as when the LORD had delivered me into thine hand, thou killedst me not.
19For if a man find his enemy, will he let him go well away? wherefore the LORD reward thee good for that thou hast done unto me this day.
20And now, behold, I know well that thou shalt surely be king, and that the kingdom of Israel shall be established in thine hand.
21Swear now therefore unto me by the LORD, that thou wilt not cut off my seed after me, and that thou wilt not destroy my name out of my father's house.
22And David sware unto Saul. And Saul went home; but David and his men gat them up unto the hold.
1And the Ziphites came unto Saul to Gibeah, saying, Doth not David hide himself in the hill of Hachilah, which is before Jeshimon?
2Then Saul arose, and went down to the wilderness of Ziph, having three thousand chosen men of Israel with him, to seek David in the wilderness of Ziph.
3And Saul pitched in the hill of Hachilah, which is before Jeshimon, by the way. But David abode in the wilderness, and he saw that Saul came after him into the wilderness.
4David therefore sent out spies, and understood that Saul was come in very deed.
5And David arose, and came to the place where Saul had pitched: and David beheld the place where Saul lay, and Abner the son of Ner, the captain of his host: and Saul lay in the trench, and the people pitched round about him.
6Then answered David and said to Ahimelech the Hittite, and to Abishai the son of Zeruiah, brother to Joab, saying, Who will go down with me to Saul to the camp? And Abishai said, I will go down with thee.
7So David and Abishai came to the people by night: and, behold, Saul lay sleeping within the trench, and his spear stuck in the ground at his bolster: but Abner and the people lay round about him.
8Then said Abishai to David, God hath delivered thine enemy into thine hand this day: now therefore let me smite him, I pray thee, with the spear even to the earth at once, and I will not smite him the second time.
9And David said to Abishai, Destroy him not: for who can stretch forth his hand against the LORD's anointed, and be guiltless?
10David said furthermore, As the LORD liveth, the LORD shall smite him; or his day shall come to die; or he shall descend into battle, and perish.
11The LORD forbid that I should stretch forth mine hand against the LORD's anointed: but, I pray thee, take thou now the spear that is at his bolster, and the cruse of water, and let us go.
12So David took the spear and the cruse of water from Saul's bolster; and they gat them away, and no man saw it, nor knew it, neither awaked: for they were all asleep; because a deep sleep from the LORD was fallen upon them.
13Then David went over to the other side, and stood on the top of an hill afar off; a great space being between them:
14And David cried to the people, and to Abner the son of Ner, saying, Answerest thou not, Abner? Then Abner answered and said, Who art thou that criest to the king?
15And David said to Abner, Art not thou a valiant man? and who is like to thee in Israel? wherefore then hast thou not kept thy lord the king? for there came one of the people in to destroy the king thy lord.
16This thing is not good that thou hast done. As the LORD liveth, ye are worthy to die, because ye have not kept your master, the LORD's anointed. And now see where the king's spear is, and the cruse of water that was at his bolster.
17And Saul knew David's voice, and said, Is this thy voice, my son David? And David said, It is my voice, my lord, O king.
18And he said, Wherefore doth my lord thus pursue after his servant? for what have I done? or what evil is in mine hand?
19Now therefore, I pray thee, let my lord the king hear the words of his servant. If the LORD have stirred thee up against me, let him accept an offering: but if they be the children of men, cursed be they before the LORD; for they have driven me out this day from abiding in the inheritance of the LORD, saying, Go, serve other gods.
20Now therefore, let not my blood fall to the earth before the face of the LORD: for the king of Israel is come out to seek a flea, as when one doth hunt a partridge in the mountains.
21Then said Saul, I have sinned: return, my son David: for I will no more do thee harm, because my soul was precious in thine eyes this day: behold, I have played the fool, and have erred exceedingly.
22And David answered and said, Behold the king's spear! and let one of the young men come over and fetch it.
23The LORD render to every man his righteousness and his faithfulness; for the LORD delivered thee into my hand to day, but I would not stretch forth mine hand against the LORD's anointed.
24And, behold, as thy life was much set by this day in mine eyes, so let my life be much set by in the eyes of the LORD, and let him deliver me out of all tribulation.
25Then Saul said to David, Blessed be thou, my son David: thou shalt both do great things, and also shalt still prevail. So David went on his way, and Saul returned to his place.
1 Samuel 31
1Now the Philistines fought against Israel: and the men of Israel fled from before the Philistines, and fell down slain in mount Gilboa.
2And the Philistines followed hard upon Saul and upon his sons; and the Philistines slew Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Melchishua, Saul's sons.
3And the battle went sore against Saul, and the archers hit him; and he was sore wounded of the archers.
4Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.
5And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him.
See what happened none of those men escaped the L-RD’s judgment. Don’t be worried about what is happening as if they will escape who those in authority do not stop the people at BBC from doing evil, watch your attitude do not do evil. I don’t speak these things in judgment of anybody, remember that vengeance belongs unto G-D.
I just want to suggest to you all get these 2 books so that you can do a self study. “Under Cover” (the promise of protection under his authority) By John Bevere there is also a student workbook to go along with that book I do recommend it because it takes the place of the video, in which I do believe it is more expensive to get that. They have that book at Family Christian bookstore or you could go the john bevere website to order it. With all this trouble at BBC it is good for everyone I believe to read these 2 books. I know I have them both.
Onlyamember- Phil does a GREAT job with the Students and I am very very happy he chose Dr. Gaines to be the speaker for camp.
I was made aware today that a former minister at Bellevue resigned this year because someone found out about his past.
This involved problems with his the police and the courts.
Here is my question. Does Bellevue conduct background checks, criminal checks, credit checks, before they hire new ministers?
Does Bellevue empolye current staff friends and then choose to waive the screening process for them to be employed?
4545 said...
This blog and others outside have shed false light on many different issues and raised doubts in some members/non-members minds. That is the main reason for any decrease in attendance.
Well, 4545
Maybe if the church authority will judge matters immediatly, according to the L-RD' laws not their own, then this site will not be here. you know I believe in the church judgeing their own, before the saints, but who listens? What about peacemaker ministries, why did not BBC contact them immediatly? Churches seldom want to deal with matters, they just say shut up! get out!
Yes, Bellevue conducts those checks. Bellevue goes into great detail. They go into those same checks to work in the youth or serve in any way. They are trying to improve in that area, just like they always do in all areas.
I sent this to Memphis today via email:
Memphis,
I took something out on you that I had no business doing and I am sorry. I did read your post while "riled up" over Ms. Billie and I took it out on you. Her kind of thinking - just off the deep end - makes me very frightened. She is not speaking for me or for anyone on the blog that I know of. I'm not sure what she means by her comments about Temple Bellevue or the fur wearing people trying to win back power of Bellevue. The names I listed were names of people she emailed (lray@bellevue.org - who else could that be?).
I really am sorry for my tirade - she just scares me. She sent me an email about someone who had molested her family member and all the deacons did was tell him to stop so I'm not really sure which side her bread is buttered on, but she does scare me.
Hope we can still be friends.
Have a great day!
Karen
onlyamember,
I feel your pain and sorrow of what's happening at our church.
I know God is in control - we all do.
Don't worry about spelling or grammar - if that was a pre-requisite for this site, I'd been long gone! :)
Karen
4545 said...
Yes, Bellevue conducts those checks. Bellevue goes into great detail. They go into those same checks to work in the youth or serve in any way. They are trying to improve in that area, just like they always do in all areas.
12:17 PM, December 27, 2006
4545,
If Bellevue does conduct their own background checks, then they missed it on one of our former ministers, didnt they?
4545 said...
This blog and others outside have shed false light on many different issues and raised doubts in some members/non-members minds. That is the main reason for any decrease in attendance.
And your documentation for that statement is...what?
Have you thought that the decrease in attendance is due to the fact that the pastor let a child molester stay on staff after confessing his sin 6 months ago? Could that be it?
Or could it be that people were tired of the Rah-Rah pep rally atmosphere and just needed a break and wanted to worship peacefully elsewhere?
Karen
You know me and my song lyrics - this song is on KLOVE right now and is just speaking to me:
Casting Crowns
Praise You In This Storm
From the album Lifesong
I was sure by now
God You would have reached down
And wiped our tears away
Stepped in and saved the day
But once again, I say “Amen”, and it’s still raining
As the thunder rolls
I barely hear You whisper through the rain
“I’m with you”
And as Your mercy falls
I raise my hands and praise the God who gives
And takes away
Chorus:
I’ll praise You in this storm
And I will lift my hands
For You are who You are
No matter where I am
Every tear I’ve cried
You hold in Your hand
You never left my side
And though my heart is torn
I will praise You in this storm
I remember when
I stumbled in the wind
You heard my cry
You raised me up again
My strength is almost gone
How can I carry on
If I can’t find You
As the thunder rolls
I barely hear You whisper through the rain
“I’m with you”
And as Your mercy falls
I raise my hands and praise the God who gives
And takes away
Chorus:
(2x’s)
I lift my eyes unto the hills
Where does my help come from?
My help comes from the Lord
The maker of Heaven and Earth
Post a Comment