"For the love of money is the root of all evil." (1 Tim. 6:10a) Ergo... follow the money.
Tuesday, October 24, 2006
Suggestion Box for New Topics
Please post your suggestions for new topic threads in the comments section of this thread. Not every suggestion will necessarily result in a new thread, but I'll try to include as many topics as may be relevant.
Commercial Appeal 10-5-06 "Any Bellevue member with a question or concern is invited to contact a deacon or the church office. Bellevue's pastor, deacons, staff, and virtually all its congregation are committed to restoring fellowship between church members in a Biblical manner."
Does this square with how Alvin Ellis was treated? Dr. Gaines told him to find a new church.
Sounds like the old "if you don't like it leave" and "the pastor isn't accountable to anyone" stance. I don't think anyone I've heard asking questions could be said to "despise" (the word used in that article) Steve Gaines. I've stated, as have others, that I love him in Christ, I pray for him and his family and Bellevue and everyone involved in this every day, and I want nothing more than full reconciliation along with repentence if there is proof of wrongdoing and future accountability instead of "business behind closed doors as usual," but I don't like some of the things he's done (mocking his flock in front of another congregation, for example) or his behavior which often seems arrogant, intimidating (bullying from the pulpit as evidenced by his sermons on 9/24 and 10/8 as well as a few more shots on the evening of 10/22), and sometimes less than honest (some of his explanations in the 9/24 information meeting and the tour mark-ups). There have been some serious accusations made in regards to the finances at Bellevue, and those making the allegations say they've tried and tried to handle the situation according to Matthew 18, only to be turned away by the people allegedly involved in the alleged activities. Where does one draw the line as far as what one is willing to overlook and "submit" to?
You can go to the Help section of Blogger.com (little icon in the upper left corner of the main page) to learn how to make URLs linkable. Don't sweat it if you can't get it to work (it took me several tries at first to figure it out), but perhaps everyone doesn't know where to find that information.
Thank you for your suggestions. I've been working on some "more positive" topics for discussion, too. I will certainly take your suggestions to heart and try to come up with some new topics that might divert some attention away from the "Mark-Steve" situation. This is the "BBC" forum though, so I'd rather keep it somewhat relevant to Bellevue. Perhaps you would like to engage Mike in a discussion of the election, but PLEASE take it to his blog! LOL!
As for turning off the comments for a day, that's an interesting idea. Not sure I want to do that now as some people may think the whole site is shut down for good (not everyone reads announcements, you know), but it would be good to get away for a day every week. I can certainly understand why the first guy packed it in. This could take its toll on you if you let it. I'll consider it. I get a traffic report every night after midnight. Maybe there's a day of the week with less traffic.
Weekly sermon discussions, if they didn't turn into a "raking Dr. Gaines over the coals" session, would be okay. I've refrained from starting a thread on the sermons from the evening services of 9/24, 10/8, and 10/22 as well as the morning service of 10/8 for that very reason, but I've seriously considered it. After all, he pretty much raked some of his sheep over the coals. There are some quotes from those sermons that really struck me. I haven't ruled it out yet.
Announcements would be fine. Got any?
Allofgrace has a blog for discussing Southern Baptist matters that you might be interested in. The link ("SB Discussion") is in the sidebar of the main page of this blog.
I don't know about others, but my children are seeking more about learning the Bible and how it applies to our lives today. References have been made about emotionalism, my children are tired of the emotional ups and downs, especially at camps. They are interested in actual studies from wise men and women.
I have read many critical comments on how Mark Sharpe didn't have a right do exercise Matthew 18.
If a respected staff member came to you with information and documents that could hurt the office of the pastor..What would you do?
How many months should you try to resolve without cooperation?
I watched the movie "Luther" as someone suggested. I am grateful Martin Luther questioned authority. I have always thought we should follow like the dumb sheep.
Congratulations! It's good to see another brother (or sister) fall off that blamed fence! I don't care which "side" you fall on (okay, NASS does, but NBBCOF doesn't), just as long as you think for yourself and don't remain perched atop the fence. We'll all be better off (and I trust much happier) when the fence is gone.
mkw asked: "Wasn't there a thread somewhere that asked a question regarding employer/employee relationships as pertains to the issues being discussed?"
That was briefly touched on in the "Prayer is the Key" thread just after midnight on October 30th. At least that's the only place I could find it.
You may want to use the newly created "What Would You Do?" thread.
It sure would be nice if they'd let us have an index on this site!
nbbcof, mkw, I think perhaps you two have hit upon what all this may really be about (from God's perspective anyhow). I don't pretend to know why all this is happening. I do know that God is in control and is certainly not taken by surprise in all this. I believe that everything happens for a reason, though we can't always see what that reason is at the time. God may be working out a multitude of things in this current situation, but as I said, I believe you two have hit upon at least one thing that should get the attention of all of us...examining our own walk with Christ. Churches are made up of individuals..as those individuals go...so goes the church corporately. No doubt all this has raised some questions...some that I think are very important things that we should take a close look at in the scriptures..but at the end of the day..we are each responsible for our own walk. I'm a big picture kind of person, which means that I tend to try to look past what's going on at the moment and try to discern what underlies the current problem. I take that from the story of King David's sin with Bathsheba, and all the resulting sins that accompanied it. My mentor once pointed out to me that David's adultery and subsequent murder of Uriah were the manifest sins of a deeper root sin. That is revealed in what Nathan the prophet said to him...2 Samuel 12,v.7"...This is what the Lord says:...v. 9...'Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what was evil in His eyes?'...v. 10..'..because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.'" Twice the Lord, speaking through Nathan used the word "despise". David had despised God's word...and despised the Lord..harsh words, considering this is the man God called "a man after God's own heart." To despise something means to hold it as having little or no value. In this passage, is revealed the root sin behind David's adultery and murder which followed it. Perhaps, and I'm only guessing here, we should look past what's going on on the surface, and each of us examine ourselves, and ask God to reveal to us whatever might be lurking in our own hearts. Thanks sisters, for making an important point.
Due to the lack of a suggestion box on the current front page, may I suggest 1) that the suggestion box be moved back, and 2) that a new thread be created under the title, "Bro. Steve has apologized to Mark Sharpe"?
Please refrain from using the anonymous identity as it becomes confusing distinguishing one anonymous commenter from another. Either register with Blogger (you can do this anonymously) and log in or select a unique screen name.
The following is taker from the SAving Bellevue site and is a very interesting question. I would like to see this as thread so it can be discussed.
ReplyDeleteBellevue needs a Pastor not an Evangelist or a Preacher
Steve's Speaking Dates
October 22-25 First Baptist Church Milan TN Steve Preaches Wednesday Night)
October 30, 2006 - 7:15pm (Steve Gaines sermon), Mississippi Baptist Pastors' Conference (Monday)
November 14-15, 2006- 11:15 am, sermon, Tennessee Baptist Convention - Chuck Taylor benediction (Tuesday & Wednesday)
January 8-12, 2007- expository preaching practicum, Liberty Theological Seminary, (Lynchburg, VA) (Monday-Friday)
January 24-26, 2007- 1:45pm, sermon, Wheeler Grove Baptist Church, Woodstock, GA ( Wednesday- Friday)
February 7-9, 2007- 6:30, sermon, First Baptist Church, (Woodstock, GA) (Wednesday---Saturday)
February 15, 2007 - Baptist Identity Conference (Thursday) http://www.uu.edu/events/moreinfo.cfm?id=1664
March 21-23- Real Evangelism Conference Higher Ground Baptist Kingsport Tennessee (Tuesday--Thursday)
Note: There may be a lot more. This is all that could be found to date.
Can you add a site meter at the bottom like the old guy had?
ReplyDeleteCommercial Appeal 10-5-06
ReplyDelete"Any Bellevue member with a question or concern is invited to contact a deacon or the church office. Bellevue's pastor, deacons, staff, and virtually all its congregation are committed to restoring fellowship between church members in a Biblical manner."
Does this square with how Alvin Ellis was treated? Dr. Gaines told him to find a new church.
bin wonderin,
ReplyDeleteOh... I just said that out loud. Funny, I thought it was German!
I'll give the site meter thing a shot. No promises, but I'll try. Maybe some polls, too.
Glad you got a good laugh.
ReplyDeleteThe add-on stuff like counters are usually very very easy.
If you need a free site to host pictures to share with family & friends try http://www.flickr.com/
Site meter is up and running! Will work on poll(s) another day.
ReplyDeleteelizabeth,
ReplyDeleteHere it is in a link.
Sounds like the old "if you don't like it leave" and "the pastor isn't accountable to anyone" stance. I don't think anyone I've heard asking questions could be said to "despise" (the word used in that article) Steve Gaines. I've stated, as have others, that I love him in Christ, I pray for him and his family and Bellevue and everyone involved in this every day, and I want nothing more than full reconciliation along with repentence if there is proof of wrongdoing and future accountability instead of "business behind closed doors as usual," but I don't like some of the things he's done (mocking his flock in front of another congregation, for example) or his behavior which often seems arrogant, intimidating (bullying from the pulpit as evidenced by his sermons on 9/24 and 10/8 as well as a few more shots on the evening of 10/22), and sometimes less than honest (some of his explanations in the 9/24 information meeting and the tour mark-ups). There have been some serious accusations made in regards to the finances at Bellevue, and those making the allegations say they've tried and tried to handle the situation according to Matthew 18, only to be turned away by the people allegedly involved in the alleged activities. Where does one draw the line as far as what one is willing to overlook and "submit" to?
notastepfordsheep
Just a note to everyone:
ReplyDeleteYou can go to the Help section of Blogger.com (little icon in the upper left corner of the main page) to learn how to make URLs linkable. Don't sweat it if you can't get it to work (it took me several tries at first to figure it out), but perhaps everyone doesn't know where to find that information.
choice_is_yours & revrn,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your suggestions. I've been working on some "more positive" topics for discussion, too. I will certainly take your suggestions to heart and try to come up with some new topics that might divert some attention away from the "Mark-Steve" situation. This is the "BBC" forum though, so I'd rather keep it somewhat relevant to Bellevue. Perhaps you would like to engage Mike in a discussion of the election, but PLEASE take it to his blog! LOL!
As for turning off the comments for a day, that's an interesting idea. Not sure I want to do that now as some people may think the whole site is shut down for good (not everyone reads announcements, you know), but it would be good to get away for a day every week. I can certainly understand why the first guy packed it in. This could take its toll on you if you let it. I'll consider it. I get a traffic report every night after midnight. Maybe there's a day of the week with less traffic.
Weekly sermon discussions, if they didn't turn into a "raking Dr. Gaines over the coals" session, would be okay. I've refrained from starting a thread on the sermons from the evening services of 9/24, 10/8, and 10/22 as well as the morning service of 10/8 for that very reason, but I've seriously considered it. After all, he pretty much raked some of his sheep over the coals. There are some quotes from those sermons that really struck me. I haven't ruled it out yet.
Announcements would be fine. Got any?
Allofgrace has a blog for discussing Southern Baptist matters that you might be interested in. The link ("SB Discussion") is in the sidebar of the main page of this blog.
choice_is_yours asked:
ReplyDelete"Can we add some of Dr. Whitmire's musical selections as background music to this place?"
Are you serious? Maybe Dueling Banjos would be more appropriate!
I'll see what I can do. There are those pesky copyright things one has to be careful of.
I don't know about others, but my children are seeking more about learning the Bible and how it applies to our lives today. References have been made about emotionalism, my children are tired of the emotional ups and downs, especially at camps. They are interested in actual studies from wise men and women.
ReplyDeleteI have read many critical comments
ReplyDeleteon how Mark Sharpe didn't have a right do exercise Matthew 18.
If a respected staff member came to you with information and documents that could hurt the office of the pastor..What would you do?
How many months should you try to resolve without cooperation?
I watched the movie "Luther" as someone suggested. I am grateful Martin Luther questioned authority. I have always thought we should follow
like the dumb sheep.
but now I'm not a stepford sheep either..:)
eccl.7:25,
ReplyDeleteCongratulations! It's good to see another brother (or sister) fall off that blamed fence! I don't care which "side" you fall on (okay, NASS does, but NBBCOF doesn't), just as long as you think for yourself and don't remain perched atop the fence. We'll all be better off (and I trust much happier) when the fence is gone.
mkw asked: "Wasn't there a thread somewhere that asked a question regarding employer/employee relationships as pertains to the issues being discussed?"
ReplyDeleteThat was briefly touched on in the "Prayer is the Key" thread just after midnight on October 30th. At least that's the only place I could find it.
You may want to use the newly created "What Would You Do?" thread.
It sure would be nice if they'd let us have an index on this site!
truth hunter,
ReplyDeleteI'm probably going to kick myself over this when my mailbox fills up with hate mail (not implying from you), but try this:
notastepford_sheep@yahoo.com
mkw,
ReplyDeleteI was just sitting here trying to come up with something. I think that's a worthy topic for discussion, and I'll work on it.
I'd like to do a poll for some topic, too. Any ideas?
Thanks.
nbbcof, mkw,
ReplyDeleteI think perhaps you two have hit upon what all this may really be about (from God's perspective anyhow). I don't pretend to know why all this is happening. I do know that God is in control and is certainly not taken by surprise in all this. I believe that everything happens for a reason, though we can't always see what that reason is at the time. God may be working out a multitude of things in this current situation, but as I said, I believe you two have hit upon at least one thing that should get the attention of all of us...examining our own walk with Christ. Churches are made up of individuals..as those individuals go...so goes the church corporately. No doubt all this has raised some questions...some that I think are very important things that we should take a close look at in the scriptures..but at the end of the day..we are each responsible for our own walk. I'm a big picture kind of person, which means that I tend to try to look past what's going on at the moment and try to discern what underlies the current problem. I take that from the story of King David's sin with Bathsheba, and all the resulting sins that accompanied it. My mentor once pointed out to me that David's adultery and subsequent murder of Uriah were the manifest sins of a deeper root sin. That is revealed in what Nathan the prophet said to him...2 Samuel 12,v.7"...This is what the Lord says:...v. 9...'Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what was evil in His eyes?'...v. 10..'..because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.'" Twice the Lord, speaking through Nathan used the word "despise". David had despised God's word...and despised the Lord..harsh words, considering this is the man God called "a man after God's own heart." To despise something means to hold it as having little or no value. In this passage, is revealed the root sin behind David's adultery and murder which followed it. Perhaps, and I'm only guessing here, we should look past what's going on on the surface, and each of us examine ourselves, and ask God to reveal to us whatever might be lurking in our own hearts. Thanks sisters, for making an important point.
Moved from another thread:
ReplyDeleteMKW said...
Due to the lack of a suggestion box on the current front page, may I suggest 1) that the suggestion box be moved back, and 2) that a new thread be created under the title, "Bro. Steve has apologized to Mark Sharpe"?
7:17 AM, November 16, 2006