tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post2466886836722452829..comments2023-08-29T04:23:57.598-05:00Comments on New BBC Open Forum: The reviews are in... "Bellevue Combines Bad Fashion AND Bad Music"New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comBlogger211125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-73863593417479021682009-10-19T12:02:51.250-05:002009-10-19T12:02:51.250-05:00I used to be one of those proponents that believed...I used to be one of those proponents that believed churches had to become more entertainment oriented in order to reach people. The reasoning is that people are saturated by entertainment, that they would be numb to a traditional style of worship, or if churches did productions, they would have to be big in order to compete with comapnies like Disney for people's attention. You had to make the Gospel look cool if people are going to listen to it. <br /><br />Now, Bellevue has shifted in that direction, and many other churches around the world as well. As I begin to see it first-hand, I'm no longer a proponent of an entertainment oriented church. It's funny, because everything I'd wanted Bellevue to become over the years is now taking place, and I don't want it anymore. <br /><br />It's one thing if an unattached Christian group wanted to use entertainment to reach people. They exist - creative arts groups, comedians, bands, etc. that aren't associated with a church and are able to reach people in fun, unique ways - out there in the real world where people are. I'm all for such groups, and I think that so-called "Christian entertainment" should not be associated with churches. Churches don't exist for that reason, and they were never meant to, if you want to go back to the founding of the New Testament church. <br /><br />There are several reasons for this, the first of which is one that was completely unexpected for me. It just feels weird and awkward for a church to try and entertain people. Bellevue's 11:11 service seems to be nothing more than a superficial vanity. It's overtly trying to be "cool" and draw people in, and it just rubs me the wrong way. People aren't stupid - they can see through such things, and it's not just Bellevue, it's any church that employs similar psychological devices. <br /><br />Did it ever occur to churches that people might want a refuge from the entertainment saturated world and find a spiritual escape from it all? Why do you have to make a worship service compete with Disney or a rock concert? Why do you have to add a stage extension and put up rather pathetic looking decorations in an attempt to create a clearly orchestrated effort to dangle a big, fat worm in front of people's faces so that they'll bite. <br /><br />I don't think any of it is done for money. Bellvue's not about money, even though it may appear otherwise. I just think they don't "get it." And yes, the contemporary service is WAY behind the times if that's what they're aiming for. I'm sorry, but you don't have someone like Steve Gaines preach at a contemporary service. He's about as anti-contemporary as you can get, even without the tie. Bellevue, if you want to update your service, lose the hokey 11:11 title, lose the preacher, lose the ridiculous sails in the background that try to hide the choir loft, forget the unecessary stage extension that attempts to bring the pastor closer to the people, and just stop trying so hard.Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07707993407513585543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-10370337544688291502009-10-01T13:42:47.413-05:002009-10-01T13:42:47.413-05:00Wish: I agree and that has been my complaint abou...Wish: I agree and that has been my complaint about this blog from day one. Glad you pointed it out.all-about-the-truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670425772563649770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-64565962393978329242009-09-30T15:27:15.879-05:002009-09-30T15:27:15.879-05:00Actually I somehow started the discussion. My pos...Actually I somehow started the discussion. My post was not about where anybody lived; it was about how certain people misuse or mislead using the "truth."<br />And that's the truth.WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-27385067335546072002009-09-30T14:16:57.441-05:002009-09-30T14:16:57.441-05:00Gmommy: I agreeGmommy: I agreeall-about-the-truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670425772563649770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-12506593621693427992009-09-30T14:02:03.048-05:002009-09-30T14:02:03.048-05:0032yrs,
I don't know if what I saw on video wa...32yrs,<br /> I don't know if what I saw on video was the same Wed. night you are referring too but in the video of a service...everything was SG and RW with JP in the background. I said the same thing to myself after seeing that.<br />I really do think JP trusted SG b/c he made such a big deal of their covenant relationship. After that was made so public it would have been wise (IMO) for SG to have explained to the congregation why he was going against that covenant.<br /><br />On another subject...why is there still discussion about where Bro R lived??I think it's so petty and stupid to discuss where he lived before he retired.OR to compare where he lived to where SG lives.It's a silly way to deflect from SG's behavior...and how his actions have hurt many people very recently.<br />I could care less where either lived or lives personally but in the past the differences in the wisdom of their investments have been pointed out.calitizzgmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-63509734720360116292009-09-30T08:59:41.234-05:002009-09-30T08:59:41.234-05:00You are correct gopher.You are correct gopher.all-about-the-truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670425772563649770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-73673980411307314452009-09-30T00:11:17.311-05:002009-09-30T00:11:17.311-05:00Adrian Rogers used to live behind Christ United Me...Adrian Rogers used to live behind Christ United Methodist Church on Poplar. At some point in time the Methodist church needed to expand and so AR sold his house to them and moved to Lakeland.<br /><br /> It was not his intention to move as he was happy and content where he was, but he was not willing to stand in the way of a church expansion program.<br /><br />-gopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08248697714473635198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-75536797350176516392009-09-29T22:55:42.169-05:002009-09-29T22:55:42.169-05:00Dr. Gaines car is equal to Dr. Rogers or less. The...Dr. Gaines car is equal to Dr. Rogers or less. The fact is Dr. Rogers house was very nice and he made a ton of money, but I see nothing wrong with what he made. I do know where he lived for years and it was very modest.all-about-the-truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670425772563649770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-57604814416020769522009-09-29T19:59:10.844-05:002009-09-29T19:59:10.844-05:00AATT wants to "... be "comparing" J...AATT wants to "... be "comparing" Jamie and Mark if anyone" (check this foreshadowing video of Jamie and Ryan made over 2 1/2 years ago)<br /><br /><br />About a year before Jamie was ousted, we went to an event at Bellevue on Wednesday night. Jamie and Ryan were both on the platform with the band but it was all Ryan. Jamie was singing back-up and was very much in the background - never said anything between songs. When we left the church someone I was with said,<br />"Jamie is definitely on the way out." Time proved them to be correct.32yrs@bbchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12729616459232164784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-64471870841311284182009-09-29T15:35:53.821-05:002009-09-29T15:35:53.821-05:00Exactly! Tell the truth but leave a detail out he...Exactly! Tell the truth but leave a detail out here do not explain there. I am just providing the "facts" after all. You are the one who draws the wrong conclusion. Don't blame me because I am all about the truth.WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-30701363690454957492009-09-29T14:44:27.025-05:002009-09-29T14:44:27.025-05:00been redeemed,
Would you mind e-mailing me? Anon...been redeemed,<br /><br />Would you mind e-mailing me? Anonymously is fine. I just need to ask you something.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-37262285064209269072009-09-29T14:43:29.874-05:002009-09-29T14:43:29.874-05:00Ohhh, now I get it! Kind of like Mac Brunson'...Ohhh, now I get it! Kind of like Mac Brunson's Clintonesque answer to the <i>Times-Union</i> reporter who asked if it was true the church paid him $300,000 a year. Mac stated his "salary" is "nowhere near" $300,000. Of course, "nowhere near" could mean $100,000 or $500,000. And "salary" doesn't necessarily include (tax-exempt) housing allowance, car allowance (or a customized car), private school tuition for your children, etc. "Facts" can be a lot like "statistics," can't they?New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-34022672612165561542009-09-29T13:18:20.948-05:002009-09-29T13:18:20.948-05:00Wish,
Could it be that Dr. Rogers declined some...Wish, <br /> Could it be that Dr. Rogers declined some of the ammenities that were offered him, just as he did his raises? <br /><br />Could it also be that AATT is as blind as a bat without the advantage of the spiritul radar that even the proverbial bat would have?Been Redeemedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06589824098474221758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-82215802523801209122009-09-29T12:50:39.430-05:002009-09-29T12:50:39.430-05:00I do not know what the obvious is. The facts I pr...I do not know what the obvious is. The facts I presented are all true but what is missing are the details as follows: Dr. Rogers accepted a lower salary than was originally offered. The house and the car were also downsized from what was originally proposed.<br />The point I am trying to make is I can state "facts" and I can tell the "truth" while lying. And that's the fact!WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-56674144034528798412009-09-29T12:20:35.926-05:002009-09-29T12:20:35.926-05:00You mean other than the obvious?You mean other than the obvious?New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-62504668779478418782009-09-29T12:09:42.836-05:002009-09-29T12:09:42.836-05:00Doesn't matter. I have presented the "fa...Doesn't matter. I have presented the "facts" and everything I have stated is the "truth." But, there is a huge lie in everything I have written.WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-55871570834201035552009-09-29T11:29:51.413-05:002009-09-29T11:29:51.413-05:00Don't recall ever hearing those facts.
Did yo...Don't recall ever hearing <i>those</i> facts.<br /><br />Did you mean "house" or "housing allowance"?New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-3343230594770847702009-09-29T10:32:57.406-05:002009-09-29T10:32:57.406-05:00I was thinking about how some who post here use fa...I was thinking about how some who post here use facts to compare Dr. Rogers and Steve Gaines and how we are unfair in our criticisms so I thought I might take a stab at it.<br />When Dr. Rogers came to Bellevue, like Steve Gaines, he was not happy with the first deal given him so he renegotiated. He also did not like the house and car he was offered so that had to be changed too.<br />I am just stating the facts, what is wrong with that? Does anyone see a problem with my facts? Replies please.WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-200723189839460832009-09-29T10:20:33.259-05:002009-09-29T10:20:33.259-05:00“Things change” is a very broad and obscure statem...“Things change” is a very broad and obscure statement. It’s a fill in the blank excuse to justify more bad behavior. What “changed?” The choir members I know are just as mystified as we are.<br />Speaking of checking with choir members, did anyone poll the choir members before deciding to change from Jim Whitmire to Jamie? <br />To Mark Blair, keep the resume updated because “things change.”WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-16627694949321403762009-09-28T22:32:57.567-05:002009-09-28T22:32:57.567-05:00The new BBC will not be "Event" driven a...The new BBC will not be "Event" driven any more, as it has not worked for them, therefore the Fall Festival "Event" is canceled. It will remain to be seen as to what other "Events" will be canceled (we will have to wait and see how the "Spirit" leads).<br /><br />AATT wants to "... be "comparing" Jamie and Mark if anyone" (check this foreshadowing <a href="http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/lifestyle/watch/v19141251KwsySxcB" rel="nofollow">video</a> of Jamie and Ryan made over 2 1/2 years ago)<br /><br />But now that Ryan Wingo has control of the music at the 9:30 Arlington Service, the 11:11 Main Campus Service and the 6:00pm Main Campus Service....<br /><br /> that only leaves the 9:30 Main Campus Service for Mark Blair as well as any of the Special "Events" that the "Spirit" leads to stay in place. So keep your eye on Mark Blair and see what happens next. <br /><br />So now that the monies ($$$$) are low, the leaders are acting very concerned about how the monies ($$$$) are being spent and going forward (not looking back) will spend God's money wisely from now on.<br /><br />"The committee will present their recommendations to the church during a business meeting following the evening Worship Service on October 25. <br /><br />The 2009 Love Offering on November 22 will help fund Phase 1 of the Long Range Plan."<br /><br /><br />-gopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08248697714473635198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-16196936022596259192009-09-28T19:10:25.811-05:002009-09-28T19:10:25.811-05:00Some of you might want to check with Jamie or Dana...Some of you might want to check with Jamie or Dana for even more insight.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-13879827306095374652009-09-28T18:59:26.043-05:002009-09-28T18:59:26.043-05:00Wish,
You're right. No matter what SG does......Wish,<br /> You're right. No matter what SG does...no matter how his behavior has affected other people....even when he doesn't tell the truth... It's always deflected away from him.<br />Even the people who said they didn't agree with all his decisions...in general...they would like people to excuse whatever the issue is at the moment.<br />Just feels so dysfunctional to me.<br /><br />Maybe in private SG has been sad that he has hurt so many people. Maybe Mac has too. I hope so.gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-16766221185128845552009-09-28T15:36:59.042-05:002009-09-28T15:36:59.042-05:00This was very hard on Dr. Gaines. He planned on be...This was very hard on Dr. Gaines. He planned on being with him forever like already posted. As you know, things do change sometimes. They tried all they could. Some of you might want to check with some choir members for more insight.all-about-the-truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670425772563649770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-18760324900447891192009-09-28T11:04:46.726-05:002009-09-28T11:04:46.726-05:00So I guess Gaines will always get a free ride. It...So I guess Gaines will always get a free ride. It does not matter who he hurts or how badly. It does not matter who he betrays. It does not matter how many he hurts. It does not matter that his word is not his bond.<br />Just follow along without question. Let's see if I go to the Bible I wonder how well that worked out?WishIhadknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12487727353887788291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-61084443426339083492009-09-28T09:50:41.230-05:002009-09-28T09:50:41.230-05:00Not suprised you would make it about Ryan Wingo an...Not suprised you would make it about Ryan Wingo and who he happens to be married to. He has nothing to do with it. Mark Blair was brought in because of things lacking. You should be "comparing" Jamie and Mark if anyone.all-about-the-truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670425772563649770noreply@blogger.com