tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post116950428342997108..comments2023-08-29T04:23:57.598-05:00Comments on New BBC Open Forum: Paul Williams FiredNew BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comBlogger512125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169798718434577802007-01-26T02:05:00.000-06:002007-01-26T02:05:00.000-06:00Also, You guys and gals need to take a look at thi...Also, You guys and gals need to take a look at this upcoming Holy Land tour and hold SG accountable to his word that he will give all those free trips away and not pocket the CASH. I know for A FACT that he racked up on those trips while at Gardendale because he told me so. If you hold him accountable where he can't make big bucks he will most likley stop doing them at Bellevue.You may as well start cleaning him up because it looks like he will be with you for a long time. You might also try to get his salary down abit. Say 250,000. He might need to change his lifestyle but with all the stupid things he has done he will be glad to get it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169798092314112922007-01-26T01:54:00.000-06:002007-01-26T01:54:00.000-06:00If you wonder why SG is hanging on and not moving ...If you wonder why SG is hanging on and not moving on down the road , well its simple. MONEY !! Where can he go and make 100,000 much less 400,000. I blame your folks who allowed him to renegotiate his salary to a figure that seems to be WAY to much for him or anyone else for that matter. He has burnt the Gardendale bridge and at his age and with his health problems he can do nothing but stay even as Bellevue breaks up. Folks he is NOT going to resign.You may as well either stay and bow to his Pastor rulership or leave and find another church.The only way he may go is if the DA moves on him with charges. Even then he will stay until he is forced to leave in order to serve time. WHAT A MESS and it is as much the leaderships fault as it is SG.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169702265300335072007-01-24T23:17:00.000-06:002007-01-24T23:17:00.000-06:00noname said... ...Mike I do not know Jim Haywood d...<I>noname said... <BR/><BR/>...<BR/><BR/>Mike I do not know Jim Haywood did that BBC security will not let him in the building but, the only reason that is said to disfellowship with a Christian is sin, but once sin is confessed and the person stops doing it they are to be brought back in to fellowship. for someone to still ban some from comming to church when no crime or sin is being done is a sin, and any Christian should hate that and speak up.</I><BR/><BR/>Mr. Haywood, by his own choice, stopped attending Bellevue Baptist Church. Except, by his own admission, to bring a video camera in hopes of recording Pastor Gaines saying or doing something Mr. Haywood might consider untoward.<BR/><BR/>It is torturing the English language to consider such a motivation as having anything to do with "worship," wouldn't you agree?<BR/><BR/><I>If you let them get away with that what will they do next Murder someone and say I am doing the L-RD's work. I believe I see those days comming nevertheless. Murder in the name of the L-RD they will be doing it again. Peace to you Mike </I><BR/><BR/>There have been people taking lives in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ for a long time, and their actions are incompatible with Christianity. There's quite a bit of separation between doing that and asking someone not to try and play "Gotcha!" during a worship service.<BR/><BR/>--MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169684834771797692007-01-24T18:27:00.000-06:002007-01-24T18:27:00.000-06:00Mike Bratton said... As far as the bouncer ...Mike Bratton said...<BR/><BR/> <BR/> As far as the bouncer comment, I'm afraid we already have bouncers at Bellevue.<BR/><BR/> We do? People who won't let you in the building to worship?<BR/><BR/> Where?<BR/><BR/> Once again, according to what Jim Haywood says, they approached him several weeks ago.<BR/><BR/> That's just Security doing its job. And I do appreciate you qualifying your statement, since we have only heard one side of the event.<BR/><BR/> --Mike<BR/><BR/> 10:39 AM, January 23, 2007 <BR/><BR/>Mike I do not know Jim Haywood did that BBC security will not let him in the building but, the only reason that is said to disfellowship with a Christian is sin, but once sin is confessed and the person stops doing it they are to be brought back in to fellowship. for someone to still ban some from comming to church when no crime or sin is being done is a sin, and any Christian should hate that and speak up. If you let them get away with that what will they do next Murder someone and say I am doing the L-RD's work. I believe I see those days comming nevertheless. Murder in the name of the L-RD they will be doing it again. Peace to you MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169583001042675872007-01-23T14:10:00.000-06:002007-01-23T14:10:00.000-06:00Doc,We who are in Christ are sinners saved by grac...Doc,<BR/><BR/>We who are in Christ are sinners saved by grace - the old has past and we are new. Yes we can still and do sin but we are Children of God if we are found in Christ not sinners.<BR/><BR/>KatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169580935185726932007-01-23T13:35:00.000-06:002007-01-23T13:35:00.000-06:00At 10:44 this morning I said, "I agree with your p...At 10:44 this morning I said, "I agree with your primary point. I don't believe we should begin barring people from worship. How would we ever decide who is allowed and who is not? Each of us remains a sinner."<BR/><BR/>I failed to point out there is solid Scriptural support for removal of a church member upon the existence of certain conditions. If those conditions have been met, Paul Willams should be removed from our fellowship.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169572231307207842007-01-23T11:10:00.000-06:002007-01-23T11:10:00.000-06:00I posted this on the upper thread. Please let's n...I posted this on the upper thread. Please let's never stop seeking the truth but let's also be kind in doing so. Please?<BR/><BR/>David Brown said... <BR/>My dear brothers and sisters:<BR/><BR/>Please allow me to expand and explain why this should have been dealt with in June.<BR/><BR/>If Dr. Gaines that taken the proper action then that was taken yesterday. None of this would be out there today.<BR/><BR/>He should have removed Paul, reported it to DCS and then provided assistance to the victim and the family.<BR/><BR/>The next Sunday he could have stood up before the congregaton and said we had to remove a minister this week for a high moral failure. He would NOT have had to reveal anyone's name.<BR/><BR/>Yes there would have been some talk. There always is but the victim and his dear family would have been spared. <BR/><BR/>There was no SavingBellevue nor blog at that time. Dr. Gaines would have been so far out if front his distractors they would never catch up. I would have hailed him as a hero. <BR/><BR/>But that didn't happen did it? And what do we have left? A church family that is very divided and hurting. We have brothers and sisters taking it out on each other here. We are ALL hurting over this one issue. NO ONE IS OR WILL BE A WINNER HERE. <BR/><BR/>It is like the comtempary christian song: "I can only imagine." What if? And that is why my soul cries out why? Why wasn't it dealt with swiftly and properly in June?<BR/><BR/>David Brown<BR/>SNAP Coordinator of West Tennessee and Memphis <BR/><BR/>10:50 AM, January 23, 2007David Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07617994693909155803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169571343603939882007-01-23T10:55:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:55:00.000-06:00docbellevue said... ...Mike, those that knew what ...<I>docbellevue said... <BR/><BR/>...<BR/><BR/>Mike, those that knew what he was guilty of thought the same thing in June. What were they thinking while he was allowed to remain in his job unfettered for six months?</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps we'll find out Sunday night.<BR/><BR/><I>When there is any doubt, we must always err on the side of protecting children. </I><BR/><BR/>As the father of two, I heartily agree.<BR/><BR/>--MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169570676346803062007-01-23T10:44:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:44:00.000-06:00There is not a snowball's chance in Cuba that Mr. ...<I>There is not a snowball's chance in Cuba that Mr. Williams will be able to work with children or youth at Bellevue again.</I><BR/><BR/>Mike, those that knew what he was guilty of thought the same thing in June. What were they thinking while he was allowed to remain in his job unfettered for six months? When there is any doubt, we must always err on the side of protecting children. <BR/><BR/>I agree with your primary point. I don't believe we should begin barring people from worship. How would we ever decide who is allowed and who is not? Each of us remains a sinner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169570353576533582007-01-23T10:39:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:39:00.000-06:00forgiveandmoveon said... Mike,I agree that PW shou...<I>forgiveandmoveon said... <BR/>Mike,<BR/>I agree that PW should be allowed to come worship as long as we don't let him work with children and we train our cameras on him while he's in the building like we do on Jim Haywood. </I><BR/><BR/>No comment.<BR/><BR/><I>As far as the bouncer comment, I'm afraid we already have bouncers at Bellevue.</I><BR/><BR/>We do? People who won't let you in the building to worship?<BR/><BR/>Where?<BR/><BR/><I>Once again, according to what Jim Haywood says, they approached him several weeks ago. </I><BR/><BR/>That's just Security doing its job. And I do appreciate you qualifying your statement, since we have only heard one side of the event.<BR/><BR/>--MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169569923132147912007-01-23T10:32:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:32:00.000-06:00Mike,I agree that PW should be allowed to come wor...Mike,<BR/>I agree that PW should be allowed to come worship as long as we don't let him work with children and we train our cameras on him while he's in the building like we do on Jim Haywood. <BR/>As far as the bouncer comment, I'm afraid we already have bouncers at Bellevue. Once again, according to what Jim Haywood says, they approached him several weeks ago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169569826565610272007-01-23T10:30:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:30:00.000-06:00imaresistor said... Well...here is my train of tho...<I>imaresistor said... <BR/>Well...here is my train of thought. I am amazed that he would have the 'gall' to enter the doors of the church again! Do you really think he would have the nerve? Where would be his shame? Really... </I><BR/><BR/>Where is your shame?<BR/><BR/>Where is mine?<BR/><BR/>--MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169569631396758362007-01-23T10:27:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:27:00.000-06:00Well...here is my train of thought. I am amazed th...Well...here is my train of thought. I am amazed that he would have the 'gall' to enter the doors of the church again! Do you really think he would have the nerve? Where would be his shame? Really...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169569546507296452007-01-23T10:25:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:25:00.000-06:0025+,Thanks for the words of wisdom. Theological d...25+,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the words of wisdom. Theological debates for centuries have frequently proved that no one has all of the right answers or complete understanding. In our human state, we will never know all that there is to know of God. The finite cannot fully understand the infinite.<BR/><BR/>We can, however, understand the finite problems that are surrounding Bellevue and move toward resolution of those problems and should focus on doing so.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04979928660354074303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169569498792984572007-01-23T10:24:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:24:00.000-06:00Karen, I do not know how long he has continued to ...Karen, <BR/>I do not know how long he has continued to go to BBC, but I do know he was there as late as '97-'98Jessicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01867337846220103344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169569310476935422007-01-23T10:21:00.001-06:002007-01-23T10:21:00.001-06:00Ima wrote: But...maybe the reference (whatever you...Ima wrote: But...maybe the reference (whatever you are addressing?) is the ministry teams? I am reminded of the Reagan's 'trickle down' method. The work is dished out through various ministry teams. Are we on the same page here?"<BR/><BR/>We are on the same page. They are called different things but the result is the same: Staff led. <BR/><BR/>Karen, I totally understand where you are coming from. And, I don't really disagree in spirit. I would be amazed if he came back there. It would tell me a lot about where his head is. <BR/><BR/>What if he asked to speak to the congregation and got on his face and confessed? then begged forgiveness and asked to be accountable for the rest of his life.... Promising never to have any ministerial responsibilites and promising to stay away from children and teens? <BR/><BR/>You know, I most certainly would forgive him but I won't be having him over for dinner, either. Not with a child in the house.<BR/><BR/>God Bless!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169569268478153822007-01-23T10:21:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:21:00.000-06:00Mike,I see your points about the "velvet rope" thi...Mike,<BR/><BR/>I see your points about the "velvet rope" thing. We all have skeletons that we would commit Hari Kari to keep hidden from people at church. I'm not saying to ask for people's resumes when they come in the door, but we KNOW about this one, why shouldn't they suggest he not come around. Well, then again, that makes him some other churches problem. I'm all for those who hurt kids in any way being locked away and tortured with pointy objects - so you understand that it's nothing personal against Paul Williams. I'm sure he feels terrible and wishes it never happened. I'm hopeful that he repented.<BR/><BR/>be patient, didn't know CW worshipped at BBC - but how difficult that must have been for his all these years. Thanks for the info.<BR/><BR/>karen<BR/><BR/>I'm moving up the next thread - NASS created another one. Thanks!Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11805543641376648431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169569259278399042007-01-23T10:20:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:20:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.allofgracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17885273980023518290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169568968915755582007-01-23T10:16:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:16:00.000-06:00Did the babies that died in The Flood go to Heaven...<I>Did the babies that died in The Flood go to Heaven or hell?</I><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Some fellow Christian above asked this question (paraphrasing).<BR/><BR/><B>A Christian's first job is to love God more than anyone or any thing else. </B>This includes ***all other people***, animals, the environment, sports, our own body, our eyes, our ability to hear, our minds, our internal organs, our health, money... <B>***all of Creation put together***</B><BR/><BR/>This means do not doubt our all-loving God in Heaven.<BR/><BR/>Do not let someone try to trick you into doubting God.<BR/><BR/>Do not let a theological argument trick you into not loving God totally and completely.<BR/><BR/>Do not let doubt in. Cast it out <B>boldly</B>. Choose to turn to God at all times. <BR/><BR/>He loves you and He will prosper you if you simply turn to him in all things.<BR/><BR/>This is ***more*** than "jmho."<BR/><BR/>This is what gets me through the hard times.<BR/><BR/>There is never a wrong time to praise God.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Not even when The Flood came.<BR/><BR/>Not even when PW was fired (ALLELUIA! I am shouting!)<BR/><BR/>All times have been ordained as praiseworthy for our God.<BR/><BR/>Amen.<BR/><BR/>I will not reply to anyone trying to change my mind about this comment.<BR/><BR/>(offline)<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169568714709494552007-01-23T10:11:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:11:00.000-06:00Karen said... ...NO EFFORT TO BAR HIM FROM WORSHIP...<I>Karen said... <BR/><BR/>...<BR/><BR/>NO EFFORT TO BAR HIM FROM WORSHIPPING THERE!!!! Are you kidding me? Granted, Paul Williams will probably never darken the doorstep of BBC again, but why not just let the fox back into the chickens? The fox lost his job and promises he's become a vegetarian. Until he can't help himself anymore and samples more chicken meat. The leadership at Bellevue is totally inept at protecting your children. What a wasted of time by the Personnel Committee. Nothing changes.</I><BR/><BR/>Karen's remarks have precipitated a number of questions which many of you "regulars" will need to ask yourselves:<BR/><BR/>1) Are we to see velvet ropes outside the doors to Bellevue now? Will the greeters now become bouncers, with lists of who may and may not enter--and some discretionary power to allow people in or keep them out?<BR/><BR/>"Dude, I'm not feelin' that tie--you're gonna have to just chill. Maybe we can fit you in at the 11 o'clock service..."<BR/><BR/>2) Have some decided that Mr. Williams just absolutely, positively cannot be healed of God--or has not been already? Is God, or is He not, able to work in Mr. Williams' life?<BR/><BR/>3) Is <I>every single person</I> in Bellevue leadership (particularly those who work with children and youth) stigmatized by Mr. Williams' clandestine behavior?<BR/><BR/>4) Are those of us who are parents "totally inept" at protecting our children by allowing them to be supervised in a Bellevue classroom?<BR/><BR/>There is not a snowball's chance in Cuba that Mr. Williams will be able to work with children or youth at Bellevue again. Presuming he will is a viewpoint which is beyond pessimistic, and I would encourage people not to give in to it.<BR/><BR/>And keep this in mind--if any church begins barring people from merely worshipping, who of us can be found acceptable?<BR/><BR/>--MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169568188729145782007-01-23T10:03:00.000-06:002007-01-23T10:03:00.000-06:00If memory serves, CW has worshiped at BBC since th...If memory serves, CW has worshiped at BBC since that time. Maybe not all of that time, but at least large portion of it. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure. <BR/><BR/>There are plenty of ways PW could worship without coming in any contact with children.Jessicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01867337846220103344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169567867799126982007-01-23T09:57:00.001-06:002007-01-23T09:57:00.001-06:00I don't beleive we can move on until Steve Gaines ...I don't beleive we can move on until Steve Gaines is no longer standing before us preaching. It's impossible to go to church and especially the service and not be thinking about the things Steve Gaines has done. People who support Steve and people who think he should go have something in common. We've both been hurt deeply by the events of this past year. Friendships and families have been split over the sins of our pastor. If Steve Gaines wants to preach, fine. Just find another church to start over on the right foot so we can heal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169567852150370342007-01-23T09:57:00.000-06:002007-01-23T09:57:00.000-06:00lindon said...Karen, If PW comes there to worship,...lindon said...<BR/><BR/>Karen, If PW comes there to worship, what better way could there be to see the fruit of his repentance? <BR/><BR/>You don't give a dog who bit your child a second chance to play ball with your child, do you?<BR/><BR/>I really feel for Paul Williams - I've prayed for him and his whole family. What if CW wanted to worship at BBC and hasn't been able to to for years because his abuser has been there every Sunday? It's now CW's turn to worship at BBC if he still wants to.<BR/><BR/>Sin causes consequences even after sin is forgiven.<BR/><BR/>I think it would have been better if the CA left that sentence out, but since they didn't, it indicates that BBC cares more about "saving face" than saving and protecting children. Who knows what runs through a pedophile's head when he's confronted with children. Someone may ask me "where is he supposed to worship; not too many churches have no children attending". Due to his criminal acts, his punishment should be to worship by himself at home. Child molestors aren't allowed to be around children - it's not the child's fault so the pedophile has to be punished. If all PW gets is banishment from BBC, he should consider himself lucky.<BR/><BR/>Lindon, I love ya! But on this point we differ - I can live with that. :)<BR/><BR/>karenKarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11805543641376648431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169567508554648912007-01-23T09:51:00.001-06:002007-01-23T09:51:00.001-06:00forgiveandmoveon said... What was Paul Williams th...forgiveandmoveon said... <BR/>What was Paul Williams thinking 17 years ago and since each time he got behind the pulpit to pray and preach? What was he thinking when he was in his office alone with victims of sexual abuse? What was his own family thinking when they saw their dad and husband masquerading as a pastor?<BR/>It's time to move on without Steve Gaines as our leader. He has lost our trust. <BR/><BR/>10:44 PM, January 22, 2007Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1169567499451072032007-01-23T09:51:00.000-06:002007-01-23T09:51:00.000-06:00Lindon,But...maybe the reference (whatever you are...Lindon,<BR/><BR/>But...maybe the reference (whatever you are addressing?) is the ministry teams? I am reminded of the Reagan's 'trickle down' method. The work is dished out through various ministry teams. Are we on the same page here?<BR/><BR/>ImaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com