tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post116184313875562861..comments2023-08-29T04:23:57.598-05:00Comments on New BBC Open Forum: Financial IssuesNew BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162399964963321682006-11-01T10:52:00.000-06:002006-11-01T10:52:00.000-06:00Hi Mrs. Wilmoth,As an aside to this discussion I t...Hi Mrs. Wilmoth,<BR/><BR/>As an aside to this discussion I thought you might like to know about an encounter I had with Dr. Rogers years ago. I was almost through with law school and I bumped into him one day Saturday morning in the halls of the church. At the time I was dealing with the idea I was called into ministry and we talked and prayed about that. Then our conversation turned to the law. He told me if he had not been a minister he probably would have been a lawyer. He got real excited talking about law and he proceeded to preach an impromptu private sermon on our "legal salvation." We easily talked for more than an hour (I mostly listened). I have no idea what he was doing that day, but he never seemed in a hurry. He seemed to want to really get to know me. <BR/><BR/>I can't claim to have been his friend, but I had other encounters like that with him over the years. <BR/>The morning my daughter was baptized I ran into him in the courtyard. He flashed a smile and jokingly asked why I wasn't in Sunday School. I told him I was hunting for out-of-town family members When he heard that he stopped and put his arm around my shoulder. We chatted a few minutes and then he proceeded to pray the most amazing prayer for my daughter as well as my other by name. <BR/><BR/>My point, he truly cared about and liked people, especially those his congregation. He was never full of himself; he was full of the love of Christ.westtnbarristerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035131919814951410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162347632335472462006-10-31T20:20:00.000-06:002006-10-31T20:20:00.000-06:00Hi Mrs. Wilmoth, Hearsay is essentially secondhand...Hi Mrs. Wilmoth, <BR/><BR/>Hearsay is essentially secondhand information that a witness heard from someone else and did not see or hear himself. <BR/><BR/>Legally, hearsay is any statement made outside a hearing or trial which is presented at the hearing or trial to prove the truth of the contents of the statement. <BR/><BR/>In the federal law hearsay is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted. <BR/><BR/>The rules of evidence begin with the premise that hearsay cannot be used in court because secondhand testimony is considered unreliable and because the person who made the original statement is often unavailable for cross-examination.<BR/><BR/>A statement introduced to prove something other than its truth is not hearsay. For example, testimony may be offered to show the speaker's state of mind.<BR/><BR/>A witness's earlier out-of-court statement may be presented at a trial or hearing if it contradicts his in-court testimony because the statement is being used to cast doubt on the witness's credibility rather than prove the statement's truth or falsity.<BR/><BR/>There are numerous exceptions to the hearsay rule, so a great deal of hearsay is actually admitted.<BR/><BR/>I'm unsure if I have answered your question, but I hope that helps. The rules of evidence are complicated, even for lawyers.westtnbarristerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035131919814951410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162251650303555442006-10-30T17:40:00.000-06:002006-10-30T17:40:00.000-06:00Mr. Wilmoth,Firsthand knowledge would be as follow...Mr. Wilmoth,<BR/><BR/>Firsthand knowledge would be as follows: I saw the car run into the building.<BR/><BR/>Hearsay: My wife said that she saw the car run into the building.<BR/><BR/>Gossip firsthand: I saw the car run into the building. I bet he was drunk.<BR/><BR/>Gossip hearsay: I heard that a drunkard ran into the building and almost killed everyone inside.<BR/><BR/>One thing about truth...it doesn't matter your opinion or mine. Because the truth will remain the truth.upside downhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05885270564161477732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162243874066141652006-10-30T15:31:00.000-06:002006-10-30T15:31:00.000-06:00Choice,Praying.Choice,<BR/>Praying.MOM4https://www.blogger.com/profile/05135604848649554169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162182461200379372006-10-29T22:27:00.000-06:002006-10-29T22:27:00.000-06:00Josh,We are witnesses to the 9/24 meeting. Most o...Josh,<BR/>We are witnesses to the 9/24 meeting. Most of us were open to receive the truth. But we saw with our eyes and heard with our ears. The fence was not "ity bity" and nothing about anything that has happened is the least bit funny. When Steve Gaines stood behind the pulpit and made light of breaking the law, repeatedly sends out his 'yes men' to do his dirty work, laughs in the pulpits of other churches about how he pulled the wool over our eyes (not all of us were fooled) we see and we hear. We are witnesses and we are many.MOM4https://www.blogger.com/profile/05135604848649554169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162180460259551312006-10-29T21:54:00.000-06:002006-10-29T21:54:00.000-06:00MKW,No one has "ratted" on you, I have no idea who...MKW,<BR/>No one has "ratted" on you, I have no idea who you are and I am sorry if I seemed in any way hostile to you. We have been "blasted" by several individuals who do not care to attempt to understand our point of view. I apologize to you for the childcare comment, whether you stay in childcare or not is actually none of my business. My point was that those who are so ready to jump on those of us that support the seeking of a resolution to this mess instead of a "leave if you don't like it" attitude are most readily the ones who are following the contemporary style of worship and the unscriptural comments that have been made about us.<BR/> I look forward to the day when this can be handled decently and in order and satisfactorily to all parties involved. We are all concerned about our church and it's members. Some of us have been shut out, some have been verbally assaulted and some of us have been asked to leave. <BR/>When this is all over, I would like to share a christian hug with all of my sisters in Christ. I would appreciate your prayers and your help in seeking a resolution to the divisions at BBC.MOM4https://www.blogger.com/profile/05135604848649554169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162178518999522162006-10-29T21:21:00.000-06:002006-10-29T21:21:00.000-06:00mkw,Thank you for your well thought out and eloque...mkw,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your well thought out and eloquently expressed comments. That's the kind of tone we should all endeavor to use regardless of our opinions.<BR/><BR/>I will try to address your question about the two or three witnesses. Mark Sharpe has stated that there are at least two witnesses, possibly more, who have been willing to meet with Dr. Gaines <I>if</I> the "proper protections" are in place. I am not privy to just what all those "protections" entail, but I understand it has to do with the witnesses requesting assurances of job protection and possibly even the presence of legal counsel and/or one or more disinterested third parties. So far their requests have been denied. Mark Sharpe has spoken of some of this in his interview with Josh Manning on Mr. Manning's blog (link in sidebar). Whether Mr. Sharpe has "seen these things with his own eyes," I don't know, but he claims to have "heard them with his own ears" from the parties who can provide the written evidence. Either way, he says he's certain there have been improprieties, and this is what needs to be addressed.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162165864266846782006-10-29T17:51:00.000-06:002006-10-29T17:51:00.000-06:00mkw,I do not mean to degrade anyone, if that is th...mkw,<BR/>I do not mean to degrade anyone, if that is the way you see it, then perhaps you are looking for fault here?? <BR/>Do you take your turn in childcare?<BR/>If you do, then you know what I am talking about. If not, then maybe you will need to consider signing up because like I said, we are losing workers left and right.MOM4https://www.blogger.com/profile/05135604848649554169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162164720927749402006-10-29T17:32:00.000-06:002006-10-29T17:32:00.000-06:00Cary Vaughn has resigned and I have some informati...Cary Vaughn has resigned and I have some information on why, but I do not have permission at this time to release it. I do not want to get anyone in trouble, but if an inkling of information comes forth, I will too. <BR/>We are losing good staff right and left. I also understand that there were some staff layoffs a while ago, possibly in the children's division. We have already lost way too many teachers. I guess all these folks that are spending their time clapping and swaying will need to go to work in childcare or listen to the children in all of the worship services. I would think that those of us who spend time doing our share, giving our tithes and attending every time the doors are open would be missed, guess not.MOM4https://www.blogger.com/profile/05135604848649554169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162080722070085872006-10-28T19:12:00.000-05:002006-10-28T19:12:00.000-05:00gnats wrote: "What difference does that make? Are ...gnats wrote: <BR/><BR/><I>"What difference does that make? Are there different levels of "firsthand?"</I><BR/><BR/>You're right. It really doesn't. <BR/><BR/><I>"Just because a staff member leaves doesn't mean that a proces is dismantled."</I><BR/><BR/>Not a clue here.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162054563772550052006-10-28T11:56:00.000-05:002006-10-28T11:56:00.000-05:00Just curious, gnats. What was your firsthand sourc...Just curious, gnats. What was <I>your</I> firsthand source? Not asking for names, just if you'd share the status of your source like bopen did.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162010910028160942006-10-27T23:48:00.000-05:002006-10-27T23:48:00.000-05:00Has Mark Sharpe seen with his own eyes the evidenc...Has Mark Sharpe seen with his own eyes the evidence that backs up his concern?<BR/><BR/>Maybe this is old news - but it occured to me today and at the moment I only have fuzzy memories of what I think I've heard him say.<BR/><BR/>I will be reviewing my notes but wanted to hear from someone who could clarify this for me and give the basis for their knowledge.<BR/><BR/>Thanks to all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1162010115382298072006-10-27T23:35:00.000-05:002006-10-27T23:35:00.000-05:00Hi NASS,Yes the open letter was from me. As I tho...Hi NASS,<BR/><BR/>Yes the open letter was from me. As I thought of all that is going on and being said I decided to appeal to the pastor who could be. I do believe that Steve wants to share Jesus with people and that in his way he wants very much to lead us forward.<BR/><BR/>And I'm with you, I too hope for a larger meeting place and a time to lay some things out. I believe we will see some activity soon that will help move us down field. <BR/><BR/>I would like to encourage each of us to take some time in the next 72 hours to pray and fast. Don't just miss a meal and keep running - pull over, fellowship and rest in Him. <BR/><BR/>We need to remove the routine distractions of life and seek Him with our whole heart. Let's get our hearts clean before each other and the Lord - perhaps then He will do what He's promised and let us see Him. Oh what a glorious thought! (vs 8 below)<BR/><BR/>Remember to pray for Steve and all the staff. There must be many who are weary of all this strain. And let's remember the Rogers family too. No matter what your take on the specifics or possible outcome of all this – I would imagine this is difficult on Dr. Rogers' children and wife.<BR/><BR/>Rest in Him tonight.<BR/>His richest blessings to you each.<BR/><BR/>Matt 5:1-16<BR/>1 And when He saw the multitudes, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him.<BR/>2 And opening His mouth He {began} to teach them, saying,<BR/>3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.<BR/>4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.<BR/>5 "Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.<BR/>6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.<BR/>7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.<BR/>8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.<BR/>9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.<BR/>10 "Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.<BR/>11 "Blessed are you when {men} cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me.<BR/>12 "Rejoice, and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.<BR/>13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how will it be made salty {again} It is good for nothing anymore, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men.<BR/>14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.<BR/>15 "Nor do {men} light a lamp, and put it under the peck-measure, but on the lampstand; and it gives light to all who are in the house.<BR/>16 "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.<BR/>(NAS)<BR/><BR/><BR/>AndrewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161990276497782292006-10-27T18:04:00.000-05:002006-10-27T18:04:00.000-05:00andrew wrote: "While I would very much like the op...andrew wrote: "While I would very much like the opportunity to see and hear and interact with those groups, as well as others, I of course understand that some discussions are best kept private and/or closed."<BR/><BR/>Thank you, Andrew. As I've explained, I don't believe the meeting I attended was "private" in that it was by <I>special</I> invitation only. Rather, knowledge was spread by word of mouth only. I have no idea why the organizers chose to announce it this way. I just happened to know someone who'd been invited who in turn invited me. I was in the right place at the right time -- nothing more, nothing less.<BR/><BR/>Oh, we did all get secret decoder rings. I think they said invitations to the next one will be through a cryptic message published in the classified section of the <I>Commercial Appeal</I>. Been watching for it every day, but so far I haven't spotted anything.<BR/><BR/>Seriously, I wish someone <I>would</I> organize an open meeting in a place large enough to accommodate a lot more people. Whether anything's in the works, I have no idea. Someone passed around a list and got everyone's name, address, phone number, and e-mail address, but I've not received any correspondence from anyone.<BR/><BR/>I liked your open letter to Dr. Gaines. Did you send it?<BR/><BR/>NASSNew BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161988790641541892006-10-27T17:39:00.000-05:002006-10-27T17:39:00.000-05:00mikebrattonisciaphas wrote: "Newbbc...I think we ...mikebrattonisciaphas wrote: "Newbbc...<BR/>I think we do know one person's employment status who has a lot of time to spend on here and his own blog."<BR/><BR/>MBIC,<BR/><BR/>While that's interesting information, it really has no place here. This forum isn't about MB or any of the rest of us. Let's all try to keep the discussion away from individual personalities (as difficult as that can be sometimes). Thanks.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161983278324645482006-10-27T16:07:00.000-05:002006-10-27T16:07:00.000-05:00Josh Tucker said "Bellevue's finances are reviewed...Josh Tucker said "Bellevue's finances are reviewed/overseen by Bellevue's finances are reviewed/overseen by an outside auditing firm, members of the deacon financial committee, the church financial officer and the staff within the finance department, as well as key figures within the pastorate/administration."<BR/><BR/>There is no such thing as a "deacon financial committee" and I do not believe the level of review you indicate happens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161982949389431392006-10-27T16:02:00.000-05:002006-10-27T16:02:00.000-05:00As one who is on the outside and has dealt with se...As one who is on the outside and has dealt with several churche in simialr situations, I woudl appeal to you guys to trash this site and go back to the biblical way. I read of rights and free country stuff but I have yet to see the biblical understanding that rights and free country have nothing to do with bibical submission and following God's plan!!! Also please note, many of the arguments that have been raised are common today and very similair to many churches who encounter change. Where is the rejoicing over the souls that have been saved? I am not trying to super spiritualize, but you guyys could use some old fashion repentence and self examination!Winning Truth w/Tim Guthriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09038540943011433268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161982569571651262006-10-27T15:56:00.000-05:002006-10-27T15:56:00.000-05:00Since you asked, scared, I agree that LW is out of...Since you asked, scared, I agree that LW is out of bounds here. His erroneous "Josh Manning" information does a disservice to both Louisiana's Mr. Manning, and the Mr. Manning of "saving Bellevue."<BR/><BR/>Someone with the capability should remove it ASAP, because, indeed, such remarks are libelous.<BR/><BR/>And you know what? Even if that was the same Josh Manning, whacking him over the head for statements that were obviously intended to be humorous is poor form.<BR/><BR/>--MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161981005481513872006-10-27T15:30:00.000-05:002006-10-27T15:30:00.000-05:00What happened to WTB? We haven't heard from him on...What happened to WTB? We haven't heard from him on this new site. I enjoyed his perspective. Anyone know his email or blog address?SallySherlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09450047456308052389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161980640789946192006-10-27T15:24:00.000-05:002006-10-27T15:24:00.000-05:00LW,I am going to pretend for the moment that your ...LW,<BR/><BR/>I am going to pretend for the moment that your posting was a tongue-in-cheek way of chastising people for making judgments without having all the facts.<BR/><BR/>Please tell me that's the case, because, if not, I would have to seriously question the intelligence of anyone who thinks that the website you noted is the same Josh Manning who has raised questions about the goings on at Bellevue.<BR/><BR/>And then if that's not enough, you make a series of statements that would be only remotely relevant <I>if</I> this was the same person, which it is virtually certain not to be since the joshmanning.com you noted is from Louisiana--and it took me about 5 minutes on Google to figure that out.<BR/><BR/>Seriously, where's Mike with a comment about libel now?<BR/><BR/><I>Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161980242231304582006-10-27T15:17:00.000-05:002006-10-27T15:17:00.000-05:00From joshmanning.com"Hello, my name is Joshua Mann...From joshmanning.com<BR/><BR/>"Hello, my name is Joshua Manning. I recently graduated from Nicholls State University in Thibodaux, Louisiana, with a degree in English. I'll be going to the University of Louisiana-Lafayette to intern under Eric Treuil this August."<BR/><BR/>This is not the Bellevue Josh Manning.SallySherlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09450047456308052389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161980065223151222006-10-27T15:14:00.000-05:002006-10-27T15:14:00.000-05:00That's nice lw. Go out there an find a way to atta...That's nice lw. Go out there an find a way to attack Josh's credibility. Find another "Josh Manning" that's "a little bit crazy" and try to plant thoughts in everyone that is the one behind the website. I'm just guessing, but is it theoretically possible that there is more than one Josh Manning in the world? Whatever your real name is lw, go out there and search on that. See if there's more than one of you. I have an uncommon name, and there's at least three of us at my company, and twice or three times that in the same city. Who knows how many people with the same name as mine in the country. That can't be the "bellevue" Josh Manning. Look at the picture.<BR/>Also, it took me about 5 seconds to find out who registered that site.<BR/>Registrant:<BR/>Cajunworks.com<BR/>188 Enterprise Dr.<BR/>Houma, LA 70360<BR/>US<BR/><BR/>Registrar: DOTSTER<BR/>Domain Name: JOSHMANNING.COM<BR/>Created on: 18-JUL-03<BR/>Expires on: 18-JUL-07<BR/>Last Updated on: 26-JUN-06<BR/><BR/>Administrative, Technical Contact:<BR/>Hutchinson, Ryan info@Cajunworks.com<BR/>Cajunworks.com<BR/>188 Enterprise Dr.<BR/>Houma, LA 70360<BR/>US<BR/>985 688 4571<BR/><BR/>You delete your comment, i'll delete mine.Finance Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14495887075953523716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161974746121008462006-10-27T13:45:00.000-05:002006-10-27T13:45:00.000-05:00"Private Meeting"And once again - some people cont..."Private Meeting"<BR/><BR/>And once again - some people continue to reveal their own bias that seems to be based on SOME knowledge and experience but not on the actual event itself. They run with an agenda like children with scissors. <BR/><BR/>- - - <BR/><BR/>Since when did private meetings mandate a subversive intent or outcome?<BR/>Disciples…upper room…anybody….?<BR/><BR/>Neither the Deacon’s meetings nor the Ad-Hoc committee meetings are open to anyone who wishes to attend. While I would very much like the opportunity to see and hear and interact with those groups, as well as others, I of course understand that some discussions are best kept private and/or closed.<BR/><BR/>May I suggest we each be on guard against making assumptions, particularly when we don’t have first person knowledge? We must not be a simpleton but we must begin with trusting one another. If someone is wrong…let them set it right and let’s move on. If someone is wrong and then denies and refuses to set it right then we must allow ourselves the responsibility to question their trustworthiness and integrity. BUT we must be perfectly accurate and correct with our judgment – and yes I mean judgment.<BR/><BR/>Don't seek to prove anything - seek truth. Let it present itself - it always will. And let's keep those “scissors” in the drawer.<BR/><BR/>With Love.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161970888907298942006-10-27T12:41:00.000-05:002006-10-27T12:41:00.000-05:00Bell and MKW, thank you. BFT, do you teach a clas...Bell and MKW, thank you. <BR/><BR/>BFT, do you teach a class at Bellevue?<BR/><BR/>Allof, there's a difference between having a bias and letting that bias run wild and run free in your worldview, wouldn't you agree?<BR/><BR/>--MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1161970521371903612006-10-27T12:35:00.000-05:002006-10-27T12:35:00.000-05:00"stillwaitingandwatching said... ...Anyway, I am p..."stillwaitingandwatching said... <BR/><BR/>...Anyway, I am putting this here because I have no way to contact you and our paths do not cross anymore at church. I know you have been praying about this for some time. Congratulations again! Blessings to your family."<BR/><BR/>Um... I have a blog.<BR/><BR/>And my e-mail address is attached to my profile.<BR/><BR/>So you have, actually, more than one way to contact me, if you'd really like to do so.<BR/><BR/>--MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com