Monday, February 05, 2007

Meet Mr. Ace!


Attention NBBCOF Bloggers!

We have now learned the identity of Mr. Ace, the blogger who has made it his personal goal of disrupting this forum for the past several weeks. Ace was foolhardy enough to write Jim Haywood, whom he had viciously attacked in several comments which were quickly deleted from this forum, identifying himself as "Adam Jones" and gave Mr. Haywood his cell phone number requesting that he call him. Mr. Haywood apparently shared that information with several other people, one of whom performed a reverse cell phone number search and learned that "Adam Jones" is in reality Adam Cary Sidhom. Mr. Sidhom, who goes by his middle name, Cary, is a member of Bellevue and a member of the string section of the orchestra. He will turn 20 years old this Friday. (NASS has woolly socks older than that.)

It's interesting that "ace" always said he never lied, yet in his message to Mr. Haywood he stated, "I am not hiding my identity. Hi, my name is Adam, what's yours?" [He didn't know to whom he was writing?] "In fact, give me a call if you want to talk more... 901-XXX-XXXX... The WHOIS records haven't been updated wherever you just searched. Try searching at godaddy.com and you will see the domain registrar has my name + phone number... it's showing up as updated there."

Okay, let's explore that statement. "Ace" told me he helped set up and is a moderator for
faithinbellevue.com, a site set up with this stated purpose: "This is a website to show our support for Bellevue Baptist Church. Here you can show your support for Dr. Steve Gaines and our great church and share with others how Bellevue has positively influenced your life and family. Together we can show the world how Bellevue has changed lives and is answering prayers." That's certainly a worthy and positive endeavor, and "ace" even asked me to place a link for the site on this forum which I did. However, later that same evening, Cary, who posts there using his first name, asked me to remove the link as he didn't want it on this site anymore.

But wait... another site just popped up this past Friday called "Save Saving Bellevue," a vindictive "spoof" of the Saving Bellevue site. Note: No link will be provided here for that site, and you go there at your own risk (or more specifically, possibly that of your computer), but here is a screen shot. It's interesting to note that both these sites, at least until yesterday, were registered to fake names ("Adam Jones" and "Adam 123," respectively) at fake Cordova addresses with Memphis zip codes.
Here are screen shots from godaddy.com from February 4th and 5th showing the changes that were made in the registration information for savesavingbellevue as well as the information for faithinbellevue.com. Now we see that the registrar is "Cary Sidhom" and at least some of his correct information is now listed.

But these two websites aren't all of Mr. Sidhom's adventures in cyberspace. Here are but a few of the places he's been hanging out:


MySpace.com

Facebook

Xanga

Ask MrCary!

vBulletin Forums. There were over 4000 posts from MrCary there last night which now seem to have evaporated (or I suspect have just been hidden). However, you can still see some of them from here.

FreeAdvice
here about the legalities of recording conversations. And this one about recording video.

And the strange world of ViolaUnion.com, parts of which are here, here, here, here, and here. Is Bellevue Baptist Church aware they're "sponsoring" this site?

Cary Sidhom is personally acquainted with the poster who posts here with the screen name "sickofthelies" and for some time now has insulted and mercilessly taunted this lady, who is an admitted victim of childhood sexual abuse herself, but would not reveal his identity to her. It turns out that Cary Sidhom is also personally acquainted with SOTL's family and is a close friend of her son's. In fact, she and another person recently paid the entire cost of Mr. Sidhom's fare for a Caribbean cruise a group of Bellevue string students and their parents plan to take in the spring so that the students can use their violins to share the Gospel in some of the local schools whenever the ship docks. They had offered to do this because Mr. Sidhom told SOTL he couldn't afford the cost of the trip and because he's always, in her words, "seemed like such a good kid." Knowing that she was paying for his trip, he continued his malicious attacks on her, both on the forum and in private correspondence with others.

Cary Sidhom and SOTL's family and other members of the orchestra and string group eat out together regularly, and at no time has Cary ever hinted that there was any problem between him and SOTL. In person he has remained polite and friendly. Yet he mocked her in his comments on the forum following her encounter with David Coombs. He has referred to her in e-mails as "pathetic," "a big, fat crybaby," and "a drama queen." And SOTL has had no idea all this time that she was paying for a Caribbean cruise for none other than "ace"!

In spite of criticism for his name-calling and behavior towards SOTL and others on this blog, "ace" has offered repeated disingenuous apologies, only to repeat his behavior again and again.


Last Tuesday night he warned me in an e-mail that two "immature" acquaintances of his were going to attack the blog. He claimed he was trying to talk them out of it because "we shouldn't stoop that low," but that he didn't know if he could stop them. Apparently he couldn't because the attacks by "thing 1" and "thing 2" began shortly thereafter. Hence, comment moderation has had to be in place almost continuously ever since.

"Ace" was permanently banned from posting here last week but continued to post anyway. When asked by someone why he continued to post after being told he couldn't, his reply was a flippant, "Because I feel like it."

More information will be forthcoming over the next few days. In the meantime, I would ask that you not personally attack this misguided young man. He is in need of our prayers.


Updates:

"Ace" threatened to reveal the identities of some of the people posting here and thought he was telling everyone my identity.

This was a series of comments from January 22nd through the 29th which to me are evidence that "ace" was working alone or in combination with someone else to give a false impression of his own identity.

"ace" said...

Mom4,

Spill it. I have nothing to hide. Try to intimidate me all you want, I don't care. Post away.

10:10 PM, January 22, 2007

"Knower of all" said...

Ace, I know who you are. Do you want me to say right here or do you want me to tell you in e-mail? Your choice, and if I don't hear back from you in 5 minutes, I'm posting it here.

10:41 PM, January 22, 2007

"Knower of all" said...

You are Stephen Coombs, David Coombs eldest son. Does your dad know that you are posting on this blog?

10:45 PM, January 22, 2007

"ace" said...

Knower of all,

Email me if you want... or post it, I don't care.

-the real ace.

10:47 PM, January 22, 2007

"ace" said...

25+years,

Steven's back... or is it Stephen? I believe Karen asked you a question Ace.

You can just call me Steve.

10:05 PM, January 27, 2007

"ace" said...

I am not Stephen Coombs.

A lot of people owe Stephen Coombs an apology, as well as the rest of the Coombs' family, including David for these lies and accusations. I'm sure they'll be waiting....

12:01 AM, January 29, 2007

Note that "knower of all" got a little ahead of "ace" when he revealed "ace's true identity" two minutes before "ace" gave him the go ahead. Regardless, from "ace's" comments, he stated he didn't mind someone revealing his identity, so to object when someone did so seems a bit disingenuous. It also seems a bit irresponsible to allow someone to plant the idea that he's someone he's not and to not deny it for a week. He even said, "Call me Steve."

Now we see he's posted a
petition urging people to sign protesting the ordination of David Coombs. A legitimate petition from a concerned BBC member urging the same thing was quickly removed from that site, but this one is allowed to remain.

And this one apparently never got off the ground.

It seems ViolaUnion needs to be "saved" now. What is this obsession with "saving" things? I would suppose Mr. Haywood should be flattered, for as they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! Obsession, on the other hand, is a little "s'cary" though.

324 comments:

  1. concerned bbc member
    You are a bunch of middle-aged kooks that don't have enough to do.

    Another Mike Bratton style sweeping judgmental generalization designed to be...how shall we say?..less than edifiying?

    Blogger (and the Thought Police) have been notified.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Concerned bbc member,
    Your parents should have taught you to respect your elders(middle- aged kooks). Don't be angry at the bloggers. Be angry at ace or whomever he is. I think people are just showing that he is not repentant or sorry one bit. I think he is just sorry that he got caught. Off my soap box now. Going back to my corner to just lurk.
    Tammy

    ReplyDelete
  3. Once again we have evidence that certain members of our current administration don't care about right or wrong. They have proven time and time again that their goal is to keep their positions and justify their mistakes. This past Sunday Feb. 4th, Larry Ray attended a young married class with the sole purpose of answering questions as it related to the PW situation as well as other transgressions related to the administration. There had been many members to leave the class as they were moving to other churches. Larry Ray made references that Dr Rogers knew about PW many years ago "in his opinion" and Mrs Rogers was only defending her late husband as any good wife would do. Once again we are seeing smoke and mirrors from staff members from the Gaines Camp. Bottom line folks; it really doesn't matter who knew about this issue msny years ago but the fact remains, this administration "dropped the ball" when it was their time to stand up and do the right thing. We continue to see cover ups and justifications when all we want is TRUTH. When will these men be held accountable for their actions or lack thereof?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Custos said...

    I AM NOT middle-aged! ;-)

    Gee Josh, you don't have to say that like it's a disease ;)

    ReplyDelete
  5. noscales

    Okay! I am HOPPING mad that Larry Ray would say that Adrian Rogers knew about PW "in his opinion"!!!!

    This is not fact! He is dragging our former pastor's name through the mud in order to make Gaines look better!

    Would he try that in a class of median adults????

    Oh yeah,I forgot, they want to get rid of the fogies who still have functioning brain cells...

    ReplyDelete
  6. aog,
    Gee Josh, you don't have to say that like it's a disease ;)


    Amen to that!

    ReplyDelete
  7. concerned bbc member,

    You are mistaken. No one is "cyber stalking" ace. He outed himself when he gave Jim Haywood his cell phone number. Someone did a reverse cell phone number search, which apparently anybody can do over the internet. Absolutely nothing was published that wasn't readily available by doing a Google search. But don't worry. We'll be back to bashing Steve Gaines tomorrow! {stated while rolling eyes with tongue in cheek}

    ReplyDelete
  8. Well, now that I've been totally insulted by Josh, guess I'll get my GEEZER sleep! But first, my Geritol. Night all!

    ReplyDelete
  9. Off subject some but interesting reading on the FBC Jacksonville blog on the pastors conference..
    This Granny is off to bed....Oh me It's midnight.....
    Night all......

    ReplyDelete
  10. {stated while rolling eyes with tongue in cheek}

    Don't hurt yourself over there!

    And oc, don't forget the Depends. :)

    ReplyDelete
  11. I think the thread on ACE was in very poor taste and showed a lack of maturity, regardless of his actions, stooping to that level lost a lot of credibility in my opinion.

    What happened to Matthew 18? Why post it for the world? You already had banned him, yet you still want to humiliate him as well?? Some have attempted to build him up after all this; others have continued to knock him down. Why?

    I do not condone everything that ACE said or did, but none of us have acted perfectly on this site. I can think of no other reason that this thread is here except for revenge, control and power. No matter what you think of the leadership, this is not the Bellevue crowd I know. This has gotten petty. This has gotten hateful and it has gotten personal.

    I pray that Ace and SOTL are able to reconcile. I pray that this friendship can be healed.

    This quote is to no one person:

    Irritability is immaturity of character. If you are subject to being cross and unpleasant with others for no apparent reason, you need to come face-to-face with the fact that you are thinking to much of yourself. After all, your feelings are not the most important things in this world.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Oh thanks.Socwork! I almost missed an important part of my evening ritual! You are a good buddy...NOT!!!! Have a good night anyway. Oh man! Where's my teeth?

    Goodnight!

    ReplyDelete
  13. memphis
    I do not condone everything that ACE said or did, but none of us have acted perfectly on this site.

    When is the "But So Did You" defense going to stop? Is this what you are going to tell Jesus when you meet him on Judgment Day? But..but..but..NASS sinned too!!!!

    Cut it out.

    ReplyDelete
  14. finance guy,

    we will stop saying it when people stop using the sins of others as an excuse and justification for the sins they commit.

    ReplyDelete
  15. FG, I can post my opinion on here as well as you can post yours. I did not ask for anyone to agree or disagree with me. I do appreciate your concern about me and my Judgement Day though, Thank you.

    And if you think my posts have no merit, then please do not feel like you have to respond to me, it won;t hurt my feelings.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Esther: "Davids, I know you are a Warren supporter and I take that into account when I read your comments. Warren would like all of us to belive that Jesus is our good buddy."

    A very weak argument, sister. Base your thoughts on the Word, not Rick Warren. I don't think I've ever thought: Gee, what would Rick believe...

    To clarify:
    1. I believe people are only saved through Jesus.
    2. I believe anyone who rejects Jesus is eternally condemned to hell.
    3. I believe Christians continue to "sin" even after they are saved. (If we deny we sin, we make Him out to be a liar).
    4. I believe anyone who claims to know Ace's eternal condition stands on dangerous ground.

    Do you believe in the security of the Believer? Or do you believe in the roller coaster: Saved, not saved, saved, not saved, saved, not saved.... Does God save us by grace, then force us to keep it by works?

    I ask because it appears by your posts that you think someone saved can return to a condition of unregeneration.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Socwork: “You mentioned Peter was a habitual sinner. I'd be curious specifically what you are referring to, but would you say he struggled in his desire not to sin?”

    Every Christian struggles with two natures: the “old” man and the “new” man.

    Peter continually show favoritism to the Jews until he was exposed from the pulpit by Paul. No need to list all of Peter’s sins, I think that is enough to show a “habitual” sinner. (Gal. 2:11-13)

    Anyway, my point is that a young Christian who needs discipling should not be condemned for harsh words as if he were lost. And I think I saw SOME struggle in ACE’s posts; but that’s between him and the Lord.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Guys, Listen. Let's stop and look at what we are doing to each other. We are saying things that are very painful and degrading. Let's stop attacking each other and let's attack the problem. We know of the wrong that has and is being done. We know the people that are responsible for that wrong. THEY MUST GO. WE MUST STICK TOGETHER. We sit in the congregation and the choir and in our Bible Fellowship classes like everything is alright. Well it is not. Let's organize meetings, pray,and work together.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Bottom line: we go back to a subject that has been dealt with before here......forgiveness does not negate consequences. We all know Ace is a kid, and I think we all see that with understanding, remembering stupid things we might have done. However, we all had to learn some things the hard way; it's part of the maturing process. No one reading this blog can claim ignorance of the big picture and most here are seeking the Truth and accountability in our own Christian walk as well as corporately. By continuing to pray for each other and being proactive to study God's Word and seek the truth, we will always be conquers through Christ, no matter what the aces of the world do.

    "You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world." 1 John 4:4

    ReplyDelete
  20. I want to challenge each of you to take a look at what you've done here. I believe many here are being super critical over Cary's actions while you need to take a look at yourselves instead. I'm not shifting the focus from him, it's just a mere suggestion.

    Yes, he resorted to calling something "a pathetic crybaby" but is that something to be really whining about so much? Based on some (KEYWORD: some) of these posts, I am going to have to say he was right on with that statement. He probably shouldn't have said it out loud, though and that was a mistake on his part.

    What you are doing here is bordering criminal activity and you are walking on dangerous soil. Be careful.

    I'm going to leave with some quotes from two songs.

    Casting Crowns...If We Are The Body:
    It's crowded in worship today
    As she slips in trying to fade into the faces
    The girls teasing laughter is carrying farther than they know
    Farther than they know

    But if we are the body
    Why aren't His arms reaching?
    Why aren't His hands healing?
    Why aren't His words teaching?
    And if we are the body
    Why aren't His feet going?
    Why is His love not showing them there is a way?
    There is a way


    If we are the body, why have we been treating Cary the way we have treated him? Why? It is inexcuseable.

    And the beginning of Michael W. Smith's "Open Arms"

    Many people in the steeple
    But no one leaves the walls
    Quick to stand and speak
    All of their beliefs
    Quick to leave you if you fall

    Tell me where's the love
    It knows no boundaries
    Tell me where's the love
    Yeah yeah
    Open arms
    We need to be
    Open arms


    Do we have open arms? Where is the love?

    This will probably be my only post. Thanks for reading.

    ReplyDelete
  21. NASS,

    You lied. You cannot do a reverse phone look-up on a cell phone.

    And you have provided some things that aren't readily available by a good search.

    Can you get a PDF of his Myspace on google?
    Can you get a PDF of "Viola Union" on google?

    You are a coward and a liar.

    ReplyDelete
  22. lol, apparently the post leading to my little "not middle-age" comment got deleted so I was left out there on my own. =) Somebody called us all a bunch of "middle-aged kooks." I took issue with the first part since I'm clearly not middle aged. Or as I might say of most of you, well-seasoned. =)

    I miss you guys. Did I mention it was -10 degrees Monday when I rode my bike in to school?

    ReplyDelete
  23. financeguy wrote: "When is the "But So Did You" defense going to stop? Is this what you are going to tell Jesus when you meet him on Judgment Day? But..but..but..NASS sinned too!!!!"

    Welcome to the new tolerant/intolerant form of psuedo-christianity. No one can quote scripture anymore because no one knows it in context. No one can rebuke, exhort, etc. because all are sinners. We cannot point out/or follow scriptural commands because we are to wait on God to 'handle' it instead. Only a few are 'annointed' now as we ignore John who told us all who 'walk' in the Lord are annointed. (Walk means a 'lifestyle')

    As one pastor said recently, "So, you can't stop sinning because of MY sin?"

    His point was that this now common arguement that we cannot point out sin because we are sinners is not Biblical. Nathan was a sinner yet used by God to point out David's sin. Same with John the Baptist, all the apostles, etc, etc.


    People are literally making up their own personal religions.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Piglet and others,

    Don't give much thought to the Larry Ray comment.

    IF it is true that he said this, it is a reflection of his judgement, not Dr Rogers reputation.

    Why do you think people want to bring Dr Rogers into every conversation. It is because of Dr Rogers' impecable reputation. It is because of the years of decisions that he has made. These people feel that by "invoking Dr Rogers" into the situation would "make it okay" for the way BBC is handling these situations.

    IT WOULD NOT. NOR would it be OKAY IF DR ROGERS KNEW!

    Because of the decisions Dr Rogers has made in the past makes it impossible for me to believe he would have allowed it to continue. However, let's not get drug into this dialog. If it makes them feel better to have that opinion, so be it, it is a reflection on them. It changes NOTHING!

    The current administration failed to lead. Now they continue to make excuses, even though they claim to have apologized (after being caught). Is this really an apology. Time after time, it is ...okay, you caught me, my backagainst the wall...I apologize, okay. Let's talk about forgiveness...

    I encourage you all to go to www.oneplace.com. Look up Love Worth Finding, January 25th. The message is "The Sin That Lost The War". It is enlightening and convicting.

    Dr. Rogers legacy is intact. These men cannot change it. I would question their motivation for even trying to bring him into this.

    I cannot help but make the comparison:

    Until Bill Clinton, it was an unwritten rule that past Presidents did not criticize current presidents. I never heard Dr Rogers criticize Dr Lee or Dr Pollard or Steve Gaines. I never heard Dr Rogers criticize SG.

    However, like Bill Clinton, they (BBC Millionaire Club) feel they can only look good by making others look bad. No one should be surprised anymore.

    Dr Rogers words speak and spoke for themselves. His actions and leadership spoke for themselves. They do not need defending.

    SG and the BBC Millionaire
    Clubs' actions and words also speak for themself. This is why we are in this situation.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Certain: Double Standards aren't cool.

    ReplyDelete
  26. NASS,

    In my personal, unaskedfor, humble opinion, it's time to shut this thread down. I've read some of Cary's myspace and other stuff you've got linked here. Those pages (especially the Viola Union) one mentions people by name that have nothing to do with the issues we discuss here. I understand why you posted all the information, but I think it's time to dismantle it and let the issue drop.

    Cary states on his page that he's famous in Memphis and wants to be known world wide - well, if we stop talking about him, that won't happen and perhaps be the biggest lesson of all to him.

    I had a phone call yesterday from a concerned parent and I agree with her - the other kids mentioned on the websites that are linked didn't ask to be "famous" - so please take my words to heart and let's start a thread where the focus isn't on Cary anymore.

    I love ya, NASS!

    Karen

    ReplyDelete
  27. Karen,

    I agree wholeheartedly. He's had his 15 minutes of fame, and his time is up.

    Does anyone have any good suggestions for new topics they'd like to see discussed? Please post your suggestions in comments here or e-mail me.

    Thanks,

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  28. Davids, I believe in: IF saved always saved.

    Saying a sinners prayer, being baptized does not guarantee salvation as so many pastors want us to believe so they can count numbers and become celebrities.

    As to the rest of your comments, I refer you back to my 3:15 pm post of yesterday. There is an imbalance of teaching of the full counsel of God. Without the realization of what a horrible depraved sinner I am, I cannot even begin to understand Grace.

    Without really understanding the wrath of God, I cannot understand His love.

    God hates. God loves. We know this but where is it written in scripture that God loves, loves loves? He is Justice. Yet, we see where it is written that He is HOLY, HOLY, HOLY. (The Hebrew way of making an important point is to repeat the words).

    Jesus did NOT take away the judging part. He became the sin for us. But we have a problem: We are confusing sinless perfectionism which is not possible with regeneration/sanctification. (case in point is how people respond to Cary's actions)

    Sanctification is a growing in Holiness where we cannot stay in sin. If we are saved, and we stray, we are snatched back by Him. We do not have 'lifestyles' of sin (includes deception, lying) if we are saved. We must work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

    What is sin? Anything that does not Glorify God. (Whatever you do, to it to the Glory of God)

    Call me what you want...this is what scriptures teach. It is hard teaching but it is truth. And if I am wrong, I will give an account on Judgement Day for teaching wrong things. I take that very seriously. And it should scare all of us.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I'm starting a new topic - Rights and Responsibility

    A good friend of mine showed this to me yesterday: Imagine a triangle - At the bottom (the widest part) are your RIGHTS. As you travel up the triangle toward RESPONSIBILITY, your RIGHTS get smaller. This concept was taught in a BBC Sunday School class so it's not something just thought up on a whim. Think about it: The bigger your RESPONSIBILITY, the smaller your RIGHTS.

    Let's apply to BBC: The ones with the most RESPONSIBILITY have less RIGHTS - I have a RIGHT to drink alcohol with dinner if I wish to (don't start, it's just an example) A minister with the RESPONSIBILITY of the ministry doesn't have this RIGHT per se because of the testimony he has of being a minister. (this is just an example for debate purposes only - I'm not saying any BBC ministers drink with dinner)

    Your thoughts??

    karen

    ReplyDelete
  30. bepatient,

    we will stop saying it when people stop using the sins of others as an excuse and justification for the sins they commit.


    Thank you for helping me understand. So with this logic, it's okay for PW to abuse his son as long as "other people are doing it". Or would you say it's okay to match sin for sin, but only up to a certain point?

    (BTW, didn't you say something a few threads back about two wrongs not making a right?)

    My point to you and Memphis is that this is NOT scriptural, and will get you nowhere in God's economy. In Gods' Economy (the real one, not the Rick Warrenesqe-Cheap Grace one) everyone is responsible for his or her own actions. You aren't "compared" to others.

    I can't believe I have to point this out to people who sat under Dr. Rogers preaching for as long as (at least some of you) have.

    I've never justified any wrong or disrespectful behavior by me on here as "but Ace did it". When I let Ace push my button and crossed the lines of decency, I apolgized without qualification and moved on. He's yet to apolgise to me for his un-Christlike provoking of me, nor do I expect an apology.

    I hope i've made my point. You are welcome to disagree with me, but I would like some scripture from you that says the "but so did you" defense works in Heaven.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Esther,
    You are right on. If we don't see ourselves as sinners, how can we know of the need to accept forgiveness, Christ's salvation, and God's grace? We must also know the whole character of God. Some is not "warm and fuzzy" but it makes God, GOD. He is sovereign. Period.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Karen, Just posting on here lowers our rights because we could lead others astray, or hurt others. Our responsibilities increase. The problem with many folks now is that they don't want to take responsibility for anything they do. They think they always have an excuse. Our yardstick is Jesus...not another person, and He took his responsibilities seriously. And gave up His rights.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Guys,
    Some of you feel that this discussion on ACE was a distraction. Unfortunatly, it was very germane to the issue, because of ACE represents a large part of the problem.
    I feel he has illustrated to the world the reason why a number of the church members feel alienated from the leadership.
    A couple of thoughts.
    1)He has been the face of the Administration defenders on here for months.

    2)He has illustrated the attitude the church defenders/administration has toward people who have valid, Biblically based concerns. (Not, the-Pastor-smokes-cigars-and-his wife-wears-a-fur-coat dispute of yesteryear.)

    3)He has illustrated in a very open manner the arrogance, deceptiveness and duplicity that is now Business as usual at Bellevue Inc.

    4)He has personally offended many people on here, and I'm sure some that just lurk were offended as well. This post by NASS is a brilliant illustration of the Scripture about "That which is done in secret will be shouted from the housetops".

    5)Hopefully this is a lesson to ACE that when you sin, it often affects others than just yourself. Karen pointed out that there are others becoming famous as a result of this that had no desire to be famous. This is an example of Cary's sin affecting others. I hope he learns the lesson, as well as others reading this.

    Having said that, once this has run it's course (maybe already?) we need to move on.

    Unfortunatly, there is plenty else to chew on. It just never ends.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Karen,
    You are right and wrong at the same time. That used to be the way it was, but today, the more responsibility you have, the more rights you have. I don't even want to get into illustrations of that now. It's already been done before.

    Just more Romans 1 illustration about how the order of things get's topsy-turvy in the last days.

    ReplyDelete
  35. I do not have a way of contacting the owner of this blog by email for I know not the email address. I also know that I will be "crucified" by some on this blog because of what I am about to discuss but I know in my heart that The LORD Jesus WANTS it discussed.

    The expose' about Ace makes for interesting reading and apparently makes for interesting remarks about him and to him on a very public blog by some that are so very angry but somewhere in all of this is a 20 year-old young man that satan has used to wreak havoc. This same young man is receiving a rebuke from The LORD Jesus in all of this but there is flesh showing through that is of potential danger to the young man.

    God LOVES Ace for He has said that it is the one that He LOVES that He chastises and rebukes. While Jesus is out looking for Ace to bring him into His arms through true godly sorrow and true repentance for acts of hatred and not God's love, the devil is also going to continue HIS reach for this young man. Rejection is a prime tool that satan uses to cause one to isolate themselves. He then assaults the mind with thoughts of despair and hopelessness. He then offers his "solutions" to the situations which always includes inciting feelings of "I have failed. No one loves me. No one cares for my soul. I WANT TO DIE!!!" Satan then offers means of doing exactly that....dying by one's own hand. I have worked psychiatry for a total of 17+ years during my almost 33 years in nursing and have seen what satan does to the mind and spirit of those that feel that they are rejected and unloved and unwanted. I have seen their despair. That same despair is something we ALL have experienced in our own lives for satan does not play favorites. Children attempting to commit suicide....young people attempting to commit suicide....adults attempting to commit suicide....elderly attempting to commit suicide. Eternity is a long, long, long time to reget having killed oneself. It is when one perceives that their world has been destroyed that satan has a hey-day with such an one's mind. Twenty year-olds worlds are quite fragile. They think they are adults but, in truth, they are still but older children. They still are impressed with peer approval. While God does indeed let satan destroy a sinful person's world sometimes to get their attention to Him, He allows it in order that the flesh be crucified as The Bible talks about. While God is working one end, satan works the other end and offers actual death oftentimes. As much as I hate the sin of pediophilia, I have prayed so often against this very thing even in the life of Paul Williams, his beloved son, and his family. Satan's valley of depression is black, black dark in which one can see no light at all. It is a very horrible, horrible, horrible thing indeed. It's author is the devil himself. The ONLY light that one will ever find that will illuminate the terror-filled halls of depression is THE Light....JESUS.

    While to say that Ace's identity was discovered is one thing, to publicly crucify that young man and expose even his entries on blogs of his interests and then end the segment with words encouraging everyone to pray for Ace and not personally attack him is completely the opposite message of the segment for the segment itself is a very personal attack on a young man that needs The LORD Jesus. WE are supposed to be Christians.....remember? While he was wrong in what he did, who among us have not done hurtful
    things to others in our lifetimes yet begged God to forgive us....AND HE DID??? Who among us have not had regrets that have walked with us throughout life in our private thoughts and wished we could turn back time? BUT WE COULDN'T.

    A private rebuke by the owner of the blog (or by the district attorney) would surely have been sufficient in embarrassing this young man with the truth without throwing him directly into the arms of the one that guided him to do such evil things. Ace is a person....a LOVED person by God....a person God is reaching out to.... and I am worried about what might ensue in this young man's life as a result of a type of vandetta drama such as the one that has occurred. Will he quit playing music for our LORD at Church? Will he turn from Christianity itself? Will he want to die? (Keep in mind that this is but a young man of which today is his birthday. He hasn't lived long enough to know that this is not the end of the world for him publicly and privately.)

    PLEASE remove this blog about Ace off of the site entirely, Sir. PLEASE.

    If what I have written offends anyone that is TRULY Christian,then it is a result of one's flesh pride being offended.

    It is time we all realize who the enemy of Ace's soul is....he is the enemy of our souls too. Please cease from providing spiritual arsenal for satan to use against this young man's mind and heart. It could lead to dark places that will be regretted.

    If Ace is reading this, I ask you, Cary, to go to Jesus and repent....TRULY repent and then enter His Arms. This blog is not the end of the world for you. You are simply this week's topic. God LOVES you and there is LIVING hope in Jesus. God has glorious plans for your life. Dwell in Him while this storm passes by and learn at the feet of The Holy Ghost. Get into His Word. STUDY His Word. Make JESUS your song and make HIM the music that your heart sings.

    You will find that He has called you as He called Paul to attest to His Gospel in these last days we are in on this earth. We as The Church NEED you, Ace. May The LORD Jesus ever bless you in the knowledge of Himself. You and I will probably trade places as someone to publicly deride as a result of this post but it is more important to let you know that Jesus LOVES you than to hide silently behind our computer and receive HIS rebuke. Rebuke all of satan's attempts to send you into depths of despair, Cary. Ask the lady that you defrauded out of money for your trip to forgive you. She will. She belongs to The LORD Jesus. She has God's Heart.

    We will be fervently praying for you and will be fervently praying against satan's attacks of your mind. You have learned valuable lessons in this and one of the lessons you needed to know is that the same devil that tempts you (and the rest of us)to do evil is the very same one that laughs at your hurt (and the rest of us as we hurt)as a result of sin. This is how God teaches us His true children by letting us get a real good glimpse of the enemy of God and the enemy of our own souls. After He has forgiven us and cleansed us with the Blood of Jesus after we have TRULY repented, we are able to be used by Him to warn others and help others.

    Father loves you and we love you, too, Cary. Stop by our website. There are treasures there for you from Jesus.

    By the way....Happy Birthday, Cary!

    Sincerely in The LORD and ONLY Savior Jesus Christ,
    Bonita Ann Richie

    Living Hope In Jesus
    www.livinghopeinjesus.com

    ReplyDelete
  36. memphis, your 12:04 AM post was spot on...

    ReplyDelete
  37. Finance guy,

    I am repeating two wrongs don't make a right, just restated in a new way.

    ACE may have been wrong (although I think the depth of what he is being charged with is way overblown but lets save that argument for another day) but that IS NOT a justification for posting his personal information to the world and sitting around questioning his salvation and saying hateful things. This "adults" on this blog should have a higher level of responsibility, just like Karen said.

    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anyway, my point is that a young Christian who needs discipling should not be condemned for harsh words as if he were lost. And I think I saw SOME struggle in ACE’s posts; but that’s between him and the Lord.

    I guess that is one thought where we just see things differently... I don't see the topic of our conversation as "condemnation" - I see it as an opportunity for this:

    2 Cor 13.5
    Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you? --unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

    We all need to do this, no?

    And yes, Cary's relationship with the Lord will have to be worked out with... the Lord. Do you think sometimes God uses others in the process?

    James 5.20
    let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

    ReplyDelete
  39. observer,

    I never lied about anything. In fact I would swear in a court of law that every one of those pages I posted was found by me by doing a Google search Monday night. Every last one! Figuring that they might be removed or modified within a few hours, I took screen shots of them all, and my assumptions were correct. They were modified or masked a few hours later, so I pulled out the screen shots I'd captured the night before and uploaded those, but again, I found them to begin with by doing a simple Google search that anyone else could have done.

    Cary stated he didn't want the whole world to see those pages. Well, then, why did he post them on the world wide web and not password protect them? Doesn't make sense.

    As for doing a reverse cell phone number search, I would invite you to do a Google search for "reverse cell phone number search" and just see how many resources there are. Intelius.com is one of the biggest, and if you're willing to pay them $14.95 you can do a reverse cell phone number search, too. Apparently someone did.

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  40. fg,

    Thanks, I think. :) You're referring this part of Romans 1, right?

    18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
    19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
    20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
    21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
    23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
    24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
    25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
    26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
    27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
    28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
    29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
    30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
    32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

    In applying this Scripture to my life, I guess "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it" if pretty prophetic, huh? With the pride I had in BBC for so long, I didn't pray about the appointment of a new pastor, I didn't pray for the Search Committee, so my inaction got me exactly what I asked for: not too much to be proud of now.

    karen

    ReplyDelete
  41. I think that some people are missing the point here IMO. When Ace decided to come on this blog and post, he made choices. Those choices have gotten him where he is today. Like it or not he is a young adult. Should he be crucified? Absolutely not. Should there be consequences? Yes. He put his information on myspace and other places for all the world to see. Is he immature? I think yes but there comes a time when he must be a man. As the Bible says, when I was a child I spoke as a child but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    Should we forgive him? Absolutely. But forgiveness does not take away the consequences of his actions or motives. The Lord will judge him.

    Ace has a lot of growing up to do and lot of mending of relationships. I hope and pray that he will use this experience to grow and mature.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Today is February 7. This is significant because at 6:30pm, Steve Gaines is scheduled to speak at Woodstock Church with the Bailey Smith Ministry tour in Georgia, Johnny Wood, host pastor. Since he has cancelled some other speaking engagements (three I think?)... has he cancelled this one or did he keep this one? Anybody know?

    ReplyDelete
  43. Just because something can be done, doesnt mean it should be. If Ace gave his cell phone info to one person, should that person do a search and then release his name for many to see. Even though, obviously, Ace didnt want his name out there - if he did he would have posted it himself.

    There are many on this blog who remain nameless, and I think it should be up to each poster whether they want to reveal their name or not. If they dont, that shouldnt be betrayed by others, just because they have the ability to do so.

    Once, when Ace said he knew the identity of many posters here, he was accused of making threats. But I guess actually releasing his info is fair game and not threatening at all...

    ReplyDelete
  44. observer
    You are either very ignorant or an agent provocateur.

    You are a coward and a liar.

    Pointing out that this is an unwarranted and vicious personal attack, which you should apologize for, explain to me how this doesn't describe yourself?

    ReplyDelete
  45. Finance Guy,

    Thank you for your 9:55 AM post.
    I appreciate you.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Bonita,

    You are a brilliant person and I appreciate your post so much! Thank you for showing us the errors we have made in regard to Cary and we will move on from this experience as better people and hopefully stronger Christians.

    FYI, I offered a cookie via email to Cary, but he said he doesn't eat things made by people he doesn't know - now doesn't that just beat all! :)

    karen

    ReplyDelete
  47. karen said:

    In applying this Scripture to my life, I guess "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it" if pretty prophetic, huh? With the pride I had in BBC for so long, I didn't pray about the appointment of a new pastor, I didn't pray for the Search Committee, so my inaction got me exactly what I asked for: not too much to be proud of now.

    Karen,

    Oh my goodness...You are SOO Right!!! I must confess that I am guilty of the same thing. I hang my head in shame. Pride cometh before the fall.

    ReplyDelete
  48. bepatient
    we will stop saying it when people stop using the sins of others as an excuse and justification for the sins they commit.


    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Which is it? The first comment in effect says that two wrongs do make a right.

    Make up your mind.

    And it's very easy to justify posting ACE's personal information on the internet, but no one on here is in a position where they answer to you, and do not need to justify anything to you.

    An interesting observation. You have a habit of calling things "you wouldn't do" (read personal convictions) as things that are "Wrong" for others to do. (reference this situation and the JM recording situation). I grew up exposed to this sort of legalism, and I'm very sensitive to it.

    Show me in the Bible where what NASS did was wrong. Show me in the Bible were what JM did was wrong.

    If you wouldn't do it, then don't. But don't try to imput your personal convictions on everyone else.

    ReplyDelete
  49. concernedSBCer said...
    Karen, Just posting on here lowers our rights because we could lead others astray, or hurt others. Our responsibilities increase. The problem with many folks now is that they don't want to take responsibility for anything they do. They think they always have an excuse. Our yardstick is Jesus...not another person, and He took his responsibilities seriously. And gave up His rights.


    To that, I share this with you - This is the LWF devotion for today:

    February 7

    BIBLE MEDITATION:
    “Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.” Revelation 4:8

    DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT:
    There has never been a man like the Lord Jesus. John Phillips wrote these words about Jesus that deeply stirred me. He said, “He never uttered a hasty, unkind, untrue, or frivolous word. He never entertained an impure thought. His talents never debased for selfish ends. His influence, never bad. His judgment, never wrong. He never had to apologize for anything that He did or retract a single word He said. He was never too late or too soon, never upset, never insipid, never shallow or afraid. . . He had absolute victory from the moment He drew his first breath in that Bethlehem barn until the moment He closed His eyes in death on the cross of Calvary.”

    ACTION POINT:
    If you’re looking for a hero, let me suggest mine to you. His name is Jesus.


    Cary mentioned on one of his websites that he has a lot of personal heros (himself being one!) so I suggest he read Hebrews 11 - The Hall of Heros. And a personal fave of mine!

    karen

    ReplyDelete
  50. I just called Woodstock Baptist church and asked if SG was speaking tonight. I was told that he is NOT speaking tonight, because "something came up at his church"

    There ya have it.

    ReplyDelete
  51. be patient said

    we will stop saying it when people stop using the sins of others as an excuse and justification for the sins they commit.


    Piglet says:

    Funny, but this seems to be the "MO" of the Gaines supporters IF they admit he's fouled up. You know, the old "nobody's perfect" defense.

    He wore that one out in the fall of last year. I gave him the benefit of the doubt:

    "He's not Dr. Rogers"

    "He's young, he needs more experience"

    "Poor guy messed up. Give him a break."

    "He said he was sorry."

    But, hey, he's been revealing who and what he is for some time now.

    He's tellingyou he is not interested in resolving this conflict.

    He's telling you he has no use for bylaws or congregational involvement.

    He's telling you he can disregard the law when it pleases him.

    Aren't you guys seeing a pattern? Aren't you listening - or does he have to yell it from the roof tops?

    ReplyDelete
  52. ::: offline until tonight:::::

    Ya'll be nice today.

    ReplyDelete
  53. There can be consequences of making "mean posts" on a blog that are short of releasing personal information for many people to see against the wishes of the poster.

    If Ace's posts were deamed over the line(although personally I find singling out his posts on this blog as mean and sinful is amusing at best, and downright hypocritical at worst), the blog administrator can levy the consequences of not allowing him to post here. Some may not agree with the decision(myself included), but that kind of "power" comes with running the blog.

    Taking it a step further and releasing his name and other info goes beyond consequences, IMO, and becomes vindictive behavior on its own...

    ReplyDelete
  54. When I was in fifth grade, in a school chapel presentation at my elementary school, a girl got up and held up a blank sheet of paper. "This represents your life" she said.
    She then proceeded to crumple it up, while explaining that this was the affects of sin, like drugs, etc.

    Then she opened it back up, illustrating repentance and forgiveness. The problem was, no matter how much she tried to smooth out the sheet of paper, the crinkles were still there. It was no longer the smooth sheet of paper. This made such an impression on me that it’s stuck with me for the past 25 years. (has it been that long? wow!)

    This is what has happened here. No matter how remorseful and repentant ACE is. (Reports are that he isn't the least bit sorry for anything other than being "outed"). No matter how much "grace" and forgiveness are extended, he has done much damage here, damage that will not be undone by the Baptist equivalent of some "Hail Mary's".

    bepatient, memphis
    How about some compassion from yourselves to the people who’ve been hurt on here, instead of the constant drivel of whining self-righteous condemnation of their attitudes and actions?

    ReplyDelete
  55. a certain bbc member

    Few, if any, of the BBC posters have not forgiven Cary. A lurker friend of mine has really been blessed by the treatment of him by those who have been offended.

    Not sure what you think borders on illegal activity here. I think you are a little dramatic.

    ReplyDelete
  56. a concerned bbc member

    What you are doing here is bordering criminal activity and you are walking on dangerous soil. Be careful.


    Piglet says:

    Also, about "bordering on criminal activity", why don't you please call BBC and ask for anyone with the board of directors and explain that what they have done is not only "bordering" on breaking the law but they have already broken it.

    Tell them that our pastor/leadership has now BROKEN the LAW a total of FOUR times in the past 15 months.

    Insist that they comply with the law and surrender documents requested by their own members. They can't comply within 5 days because that time limit has LONG since passed BUT they could avoid a court order.

    I knew you would want to know this since you are such a cocerned law abiding citizen.

    ReplyDelete
  57. NASS,

    What about his birthday and his age? Did you get those on google?

    What about that he is a member of the orchestra?
    What about that he eats with SOTL, did that pop up on google?

    You cannot honestly say that everything you wrote can be found on google. And Ace has now protected things and made them private, but you still posted screenshots. Not very Christ-like.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I don't know really why SG has stopped speaking at other churches but it does give me some hope that he is turning is full attention to BBC and the issues we're facing. Hopefully some good will come of that increased focus on BBC.

    ReplyDelete
  59. I want to publicly apologize to SOTL- I did not think before I posted something and although it was not my intent to hurt her feelings, I did and I want to apologize here as well.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Okay, Esther, read this slowly:
    I agree with you.

    Uhhhhhhh!

    Actually, you're right on, sister. And I too believe once saved always saved... IF saved! Which is a good way to put it.

    My point in all of that is that ACE should be seen as a young believer who hasn't matured. Those around him should reach out to him and disciple him or a young man with great potiential could be lost to a lifetime of this kind of double living. I think God brought him out of the shadows into the light not only for condemnation, but for discipleship.

    Loving confrontation is missing and needed in the Body of Jesus. Don't miss that through this God's goal is to make Carey and me and you more like Jesus.

    My love,
    david

    ReplyDelete
  61. Folks,
    Not trying to start a fight here, but it's time to put the whole "ace" business to rest. Frankly I wish I could say that the worst thing I did at his age was be a nuisance on a blogsite. I'm not justifying anything he did, nor minimizing what he said to sotl, I'm just saying that with all that is going on at BBC right now, the "ace" saga is hardly a blip on the radar screen. He's not just had his "15 minutes of fame", he's had almost 2 days of non-stop editorial on his exploits. C'mon folks...there are bigger fish to fry here. (ducks and covers)

    ReplyDelete
  62. It has been a while since I have looked at the blog and when I come back, I find the following:

    1. An entire thread entirely on "Ace" and sharing personal info about him and many many posts attacking him and tearing him down in every way possible. Many that seem to be enjoying the mistakes and pain of a 20 year old kid. I do not know "Ace" and I do not agree with some of the things that he has said and done. That being said, this thread is one of the most pathetic things I have ever seen. This thread seems sums up the true heart of many on this blog and what they are all about. It amazes me that some of you are so deceived that you can read this blog and this thread and think that you are actually doing "God's Work". Like I have said many times, it does not matter what others have done, there is no justification for some of the things being said and done.

    2. Now some of you are bashing Larry Ray and questioning his integrity. The FACT is you will question ANYONE's integrity that does not agree with you and your cause. That is a fact and has been PROVEN over and over. Larry Ray is an unreal man of God and is a man of integrity. He is as far from a "yes man" as you can be. He always stands on God's Word no matter what the cost.

    ReplyDelete
  63. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  64. finance guy said- Guys,
    Some of you feel that this discussion on ACE was a distraction. Unfortunatly, it was very germane to the issue, because of ACE represents a large part of the problem.
    I feel he has illustrated to the world the reason why a number of the church members feel alienated from the leadership.


    REPLY- So you are saying that some how a 20 year old kid that made some mistakes represents Dr. Gaines and Bellevue and speaks for them?? I hope that is not what you are claiming.

    ReplyDelete
  65. nameless said

    If Ace's posts were deamed over the line(although personally I find singling out his posts on this blog as mean and sinful is amusing at best, and downright hypocritical at worst), the blog administrator can levy the consequences of not allowing him to post here. Some may not agree with the decision(myself included), but that kind of "power" comes with running the blog.

    Piglet says:

    Ace did not come here to converse, but to argue and disrupt the blog. He has been a "thorn in the flesh" for months.

    When I tried to engage him in meaningful debate, he refused to talk to me any longer because he could not answer my questions or respond to me without conceding his arguments.

    NASS has exposed him and I think it needed to be done.

    But I'm ready to move on to more important issues.

    NASS

    What about discussing what folks would like to see done now that the BBC leadership has broken the law AGAIN?

    Also, if you read Wayne Vandersteeg's comment at the end of the PW informational meeting, it seems as though he opened up a business meeting without anyone knowing and declared the PW report and consequences (training he he) approved by the congregation. This slipped right by me but my husband caught it later.

    Comments anyone?

    ReplyDelete
  66. observer,

    How do you know NASS didn't get info from those google sites. Did you look at those sites too? Hmmm... What were your reasons for that?

    ReplyDelete
  67. No, observer, those things weren't found in a Google search, nor were they learned of through nefarious means as you seem to be implying. I never said everything I posted was found on Google. You said not all of the links I posted could be found in a Google search, and I corrected you.

    Several people provided me with the facts I posted. There is a large group of people at church that he associates with, and it's no secret that he plays in the orchestra, the group eats out together often, and his birthday was apparently printed in a BBC youth newsletter. None of those sources are in any way "secret" or would require any "inside" knowledge.

    And just for the record, "ace" publicly addressed me as "Trena" several times. I believe he even mentioned a last name at one time. I have no idea why he thinks that's my name, but he was obviously trying to "out" me. Let me just say right now, for the record, my name is not "Trena."

    Now, this is the last I intend to say about the matter. We will be moving on shortly. While "ace" has had his 15 minutes of fame, it's now time to move on to the real reason we're here which is not to argue with "ace" or you.

    ReplyDelete
  68. imaresistor,

    A minor correction. The host Pastor is Johnny Hunt, not Johnny Wood.

    ReplyDelete
  69. NBBCOF,

    Yes, let's move on. I'm tired of hearing justification of Ace's behavior by condemning those who are trying to set the young man straight. Oh no! Let's not suffer the consequences of our wrong doing. After all, it's "it's under the blood!"

    ReplyDelete
  70. Hey Charlie,

    "sickofthelies said...
    I just called Woodstock Baptist church and asked if SG was speaking tonight. I was told that he is NOT speaking tonight, because "something came up at his church"

    There ya have it."

    Guess maybe you missed this from SOTL. I noticed, too, that they still indicate he is speaking as scheduled. But since she called.... Some of the others conferences he missed didn't remove him from view either.??? Anyway...moving right along.

    Johnny Wood huh? Well, you know how it is. Johnny Wood of Huntstock I guess. Or Johnny Stock of Woodhunt? Or maybe Johnny Hunt of Stockwood? Or maybe Johnny ...what was his name again?

    Funning you Charlie...

    Ima

    ReplyDelete
  71. NASS,

    You keep changing your story

    You posted this 11:53 PM February 6th

    " Absolutely nothing was published that wasn't readily available by doing a Google search."

    You then posted this at 11:55 AM February 7th

    "I never said everything I posted was found on Google"

    So which one is it, NASS?

    ReplyDelete
  72. A point needs to be addressed concerning the unfortunate situation with this young man that became caught up in his anonymity. He was NOT anonymous to everyone on this blog.

    There were a select number of adults that were fully aware of his identity and apparently not only approved of these activities but actually may have encouraged him in them. These owe a huge apology to this young man and should acknowledge their responsibility in leading him astray in such activity.

    I fully understand the difficulty that these people will have in doing so because it is not an easy thing to do. Although these are not directly responsible for this young mans actions they should confess and accept their indirect responsibility for them. This is not something being pointed out that I have been unwilling to do in my own life.

    I, in the very recent past, have personally had to acknowledge my sin and provide vindication for one that was wrongfully accused for my actions and there are a number on this blog that can testify to such. My personal experience has proved that when presented with the complete truth most people have been very understanding and forgiving. I am exceedingly grateful for the forgiveness that has been granted by those aware of my own situation.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Hello all. This is my first post. I've been lurking for quite a while, but never felt it necessary to post because I had nothing new to add.

    In all the time I've been reading I've been curious about the demographics of those who post regularly, especially in light of the recent identity discovery. Would it be possible to set up a poll with an age range, male/female, number of years at BBC, etc.?

    ReplyDelete
  74. OK, I am not a member of your church. But I have been a Southern Baptist deacon for over 25 years, is this really a SBC church? From what I know, the congregation votes on everything. EVERYTHING!!! Pastor's salary, [even down to the janitor and cleaning supplies} where the money goes, how it is spent, which organizations get our money, who is on what commitee, and there is a business meeting every month to inform the congregation and to get their input. This seems to be lacking at Bellevue. Why is this so? Is it because you are too 'big' for this to make this reasonable, or is it something else? I am being honest because I have never belonged to a mega church, maybe it's not possible in such big numbers. All the secrecy and tactics employed that I have heard about going on at Bellevue by the 'leadership' do not seem 'Baptist', or 'Southern Baptist', not to mention 'Christian'

    Another thing, the church belongs to Christ, not the pastor. The pastor is not 'the pope'. The congregants of Bellevue are also indwelled with the Holy Spirit, and so have the right and responsibility to chart the course of the church as they feel the leading of God. The pastor or leadership should not over rule or dismiss this. Just a thought. Or maybe not. It's YOUR church, remember that.

    ReplyDelete
  75. observer,

    You make a good point, and I apologize for the confusion. What I was saying originally was that nothing I posted was learned of through any means not available to anyone else at Bellevue and that I broke no confidentialities in posting what I posted. However, I wrote that in a bit of a hurry and didn't make myself clear. I made a blanket statement that, as you pointed out, wasn't totally true. Thank you for holding me accountable though. I can see how that appears to be a contradiction, and I will correct the wording in the topic heading to reflect that. You realize, though, it was a mistake of the mind, not the heart!

    I trust I've made myself perfectly clear now and that you can stop trying to argue about this.

    Thank you,

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  76. ima, ima, ima,

    You are such a funner!!!! LOL

    I saw sotl's post after I entered mine, but with moderation on, they passed each other in cyberspace. I deleted mine and reposted it ASAIC.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Someone just informed me my e-mail address wasn't visible in the profile. It had been, but apparently when the blog was converted to the new version of Blogger that was omitted. I apologize for the oversight.

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  78. Here's another thought that bothers me a bit, but I'm not sure it's worth a whole new thread (it's minor)...

    What's with the "anti-Bellevue" label? Is this offensive to anyone but me? It would be like calling supporters of SG "pro-sin." It's offensive isn't it? Perhaps we can come up with less inflammatory labels for each other if we need labels so badly.

    In other words, I don't think "anti-Bellevue" indicates an openness for civil dialogue between brothers and sisters in Christ. That's all.

    ReplyDelete
  79. OC: I, too, am a member of a small SBC church, and have been most of my life. You are right; we vote on EVERYTHING! We even vote on whether to accept business meeting minutes; minutes that I can access at any time. That is why what is happening to the good folks at Bellevue is just plain wrong. The secrecy is unacceptable. I certainly don't claim to understand the dynamics of a mega, but I do agree that BBC is their church....under the theology of priesthood of the believer, all are equal.

    ReplyDelete
  80. As an addition to my 7:23 AM, February 07, 2007 post, I have an excellent idea for the next blog topic.

    "Post your apologies to Ace here"
    Anybody with me here?

    Piglet said:
    Also, about "bordering on criminal activity", why don't you please call BBC and ask for anyone with the board of directors and explain that what they have done is not only "bordering" on breaking the law but they have already broken it.

    So if (keyword: IF) BBC participated in criminal activity it makes it okay for people here to? A crime is a crime. And guess what? Cyberstalking is a crime.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Okay, here's my final final word on this. Upon rereading observer's last comment, I see s/he was referring to my post from last night, the one regarding the links I posted, and my statement this morning in which I stated I posted nothing (meaning links) that weren't readily available to anyone who did a Google search on Monday night. In fact, I received e-mails from a number of people and saw comments from several people who had done just that. I read your comment hastily and thought I had made that statement in the topic heading. I did not. So I'm not sure why you think I lied OR contradicted myself because I didn't. It seems you're the only one confused. I had nothing to apologize for. Please drop it.

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  82. enigma,

    Regarding your message, please write me with your question. I will try to answer it if I can.

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  83. 4545

    I've know Larry Ray for over 30 years. The Larry Ray I've seen over past 6-12 months is not the same Larry Ray I've known for the previous 30 years. And that is all I have to say on the subject.

    Go ahead and defend him you feel like to need to. I don't think he needs to be attacked personally, but he certainly has exhibited behavior that deserves to be discussed in light of his position and the events that have transpired over the past year.

    Again,
    JMHO

    ReplyDelete
  84. We are not devoting another topic to "ace." Anyone who feels the need to apologize to him for their own words or actions is free to do so in this thread or by private e-mail or in person. However, you cannot apologize for what you perceive as someone else's misdeeds. And as far as I know, no one is "cyberstalking" anyone. I certainly hope not. If you know of this sort of activity occurring, you should report it to the proper authorities.

    ReplyDelete
  85. can we move off of this thread? It seems like we are just trying to find something to talk about.

    ReplyDelete
  86. a certain bbc member

    Cyberstalking is a crime.

    I guess you mean that googling people's name is a crime.

    (sarcasm alert)

    I expect massive arrests all across the world tomorrow of millions of people cyber stalking Britney Spears, the Super Bowl, Lindsey Lohan,Jennifer Lopez, Paris Hilton, Beyonce Knoeles, the Indianapolis Colts, and can you belive, the Internal Reveune Service is being “cyber stalked”! Does the FBI know about all this cyber stalking??

    Actually, I would say that “cyber stalking” is when wrangleguy8@yahoo.com sends me and others threatening emails. Wouldn’t you agree?

    ReplyDelete
  87. Okay Charlie...how you like this one. Why don't we have a good laugh and then move on to something other than ace.


    TOP TEN WAYS YOU KNOW YOU'RE IN A "DIFFERENT" CHURCH


    10. The church bus has gun racks.

    9. The church staff consists of Senior Pastor, Associate Pastor and Socio-pastor.

    8. They use the "Dr. Seuss Version" of the Bible.

    7. There's an ATM in the lobby.

    6. The choir wears leather robes.

    5. Worship services are B.Y.O.S. -- "Bring Your Own Snake."

    4. There's no cover charge, but communion is a two-drink minimum.

    3. They have Karaoke Worship Time.

    2. Ushers ask, "Smoking or non-smoking?"

    1. The only song the organist knows is "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida."

    ReplyDelete
  88. I continue to be amazed when people get bent out of shape over petty things like semantics, etc, but show NO concern for the MAJOR issues.

    ReplyDelete
  89. concernedsbcer,

    Thanks for backing me up! I was starting to believe I was on another planet! What's going on here?

    ReplyDelete
  90. piglet
    Also, if you read Wayne Vandersteeg's comment at the end of the PW informational meeting, it seems as though he opened up a business meeting without anyone knowing and declared the PW report and consequences (training he he) approved by the congregation.

    I saw that immediatly as well. I told Mrs Finance Guy after that service "I guess we've now even dropped the farce of being a "congregationally approved" church.

    That was the most serious situation that church has faced in the 10+ years I've been a member, and there was no vote, even though the report read like a resolution, and it was brought to us like a "recommendation from the Committee, which acts as it's own second" like in previous business meetings. However, this church administration is so afraid that the members might actually hold them accountable, that they refused to even call a business meeting a business meeting, but just told us what we had approved.

    To me it was so obvious I don't understand why there wasn't a large group of deacons down front after the service asking David Coombs, Mr "I'm-chairman-of-two committees-even-though-it's against-written-church-policy" Vandersteeg and the Pastor that very question.


    Just another in a long list of examples of duplicity doubledealing and deception by the "Shepherds" against the "Sheep".
    What do they think we are, stupid? There are a wealth of educated and just plain smart people out there. They can only decieve us for so long before someone figures it out.

    More examples of "he who has the guns makes the rules".

    ReplyDelete
  91. nameless said

    If Ace's posts were deamed over the line(although personally I find singling out his posts on this blog as mean and sinful is amusing at best, and downright hypocritical at worst), the blog administrator can levy the consequences of not allowing him to post here. Some may not agree with the decision(myself included), but that kind of "power" comes with running the blog.

    Piglet says:

    Ace did not come here to converse, but to argue and disrupt the blog. He has been a "thorn in the flesh" for months.

    When I tried to engage him in meaningful debate, he refused to talk to me any longer because he could not answer my questions or respond to me without conceding his arguments.

    NASS has exposed him and I think it needed to be done.


    Reply: That is you opinion on why Ace came to this blog and posted. It seems many on "your side" of the issues feel the same way. But truthfully, only Ace could say that for sure. Ive read this blog for a while and 99% of the posts I saw from Ace werent mean at all. And he apologized on multiple occasions for mean posts that he did make. He often disagreed with the majority here, but that is hardly a sin. It couldnt honestly be called an "Open Forum" if dissenting viewpoints were not allowed.

    But the reason Ace was here is irrelevant to my main point. As I stated before, if the blog administrator felt Ace no longer needed to post here because of the posts that were made, then the proper consequences would be to ban him from posting.

    Posting his name and personal information against his wishes crosses another line.

    I will take a guess that "Piglet" isnt your real name. How would you have reacted if you were privately corresponding with Ace, and he was able to figure out your real information. Then posted it here and other places for everyone to see. Maybe you will say you wouldnt have minded, but I think many people who post here under hidden identities would have felt like they were wronged in that situation. And rightfully so, IMO...

    ReplyDelete
  92. 4545
    REPLY- So you are saying that some how a 20 year old kid that made some mistakes represents Dr. Gaines and Bellevue and speaks for them?? I hope that is not what you are claiming.

    Once again, you or one of your likeminded posters have put words in my mouth.

    What I said was his behavior was the "immature" version of the same treatment that the Belleuve Leadership has perpetrated on us, and thus was an illustrative event to the world of what we have to deal with on a week to week basis.

    Now, having clarified, I will say that his family is awfully close to the Media Ministry headed up by Jim Barnwell. There is certainly questions to ask concerned "What did Jim B know and when did he know it?"

    ReplyDelete
  93. Another thought about Larry Ray. Charlie Brand is Larry Ray's father in law. Draw your own conclusions there, but I know for a fact that Charlie Brand is a ferverant Pastor Supporter. More on that to come whenever a new thread get's started.

    ReplyDelete
  94. ima,

    ROFLOL!!! I spewed my afternoon cup of SASSAFRAS tea everywhere!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  95. So have you gone to Larry personally and discussed this behavior with him?

    Renewed

    Finance Guy said...

    I don't think he needs to be attacked personally, but he certainly has exhibited behavior that deserves to be discussed in light of his position and the events that have transpired over the past year.

    ReplyDelete
  96. oc,
    I was starting to believe I was on another planet!

    I'm starting to think i'm in a completely different church than the one i've been a part of in one way or another for over 20 years. As one long time member told me. "I feel like I'm a visitor in my own church."

    ReplyDelete
  97. OC: Isn't that the million dollar question? What IS going on here? Of course, that's a rhetorical question.....in a general sense we all know what is going on here. The church (as a whole) has drifted from its moorings. It's up to the truthseekers to paddle as hard and fast as we can to get it back where it belongs.

    ReplyDelete
  98. brokenheart,

    The "testing" message are all coming through, but comments do not immediately appear because comment moderation is on. (We all know why that is.) I'm trying to confirm the answer to your question now.

    Thank you,

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  99. Karen,

    Thank you for your latest suggestion. I'll start that new topic now!

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  100. oc and concernedsbcer,

    Ya'll's is the way it is SUPPOSE to be done. However, many of the so-called "mega churches" are being run like big businesses. Business men being hired as staff members or even as "pastors".

    ReplyDelete
  101. Finance Guy said...
    Another thought about Larry Ray. Charlie Brand is Larry Ray's father in law. Draw your own conclusions there, but I know for a fact that Charlie Brand is a ferverant Pastor Supporter. More on that to come whenever a new thread get's started.


    Eric Brand is Charlie Brand's son and was on the Pastor's Serch Committee. Just some more intertwing.

    karen

    ReplyDelete
  102. FG,

    NASS made a new thread - let's blow this taco stand and continue over there.

    Thanks!

    karen

    ReplyDelete
  103. charlie fox

    you mean the temple is becoming the market-place, a place of business? We can all look in the Bible to see what Jesus thinks of that. Ya'll better load your pants with Charmin!

    ReplyDelete
  104. FG said:

    bepatient, memphis
    How about some compassion from yourselves to the people who’ve been hurt on here, instead of the constant drivel of whining self-righteous condemnation of their attitudes and actions?

    You know I had a long post written out to post, but on second thought I think I will just email it to you instead of putting this all out on the web. This is nothing threatening, but it seems you do not like me and maybe email would be better than the blog. I will email you this evening.

    ReplyDelete
  105. nameless wrote:

    "As I stated before, if the blog administrator felt Ace no longer needed to post here because of the posts that were made, then the proper consequences would be to ban him from posting."

    I can only assume that you haven't been reading here very long. If you had, you would have known that "ace" was permanently banned from posting last week and yet continued to post. He knew he was banned and he knew why, but he chose to keep posting anyway. When someone asked him why he replied, "Because I feel like it." It seemed like it was just a big game with him. He was banned from posting for two days in recent weeks and still posted then as well. I have better things to do with my time than spend it deleting posts from someone who's been told not to post!

    Understand this about Blogger. Unless I make it a members only site and only allow people who register with me post or moderate comments, I cannot block people from posting. Making it a members only site prevents non-registered users from reading as well, and I want to keep the forum a place where people can read without registering because we have many, many people who read and never post comments.

    That is why I'm working on a new format for this forum so that I can block people who abuse the system. Actually, if I hadn't had to sit here and moderate comments so people like ace and the "things" don't hijack it, I would have likely completed the switchover by now. But you can see what I'm having to do, and it's not an enjoyable task.

    You would think that in a group of adults like this, if someone is told he's banned from posting that he would simply stop posting. Ace chose not to do that, hence his continued taunting and attempts to disrupt the forum resulted in his being outed. I have private e-mails from him threatening to do just that to me although he doesn't know me from well... Adam. I was not going to play his games.

    And let's clear up one more rumor "ace" started and that was that I sent him "theatening" e-mails. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and I have every e-mail we exchanged to prove it.

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  106. ATTENTION!

    A NEW TOPIC HAS BEEN STARTED. PLEASE MOVE UP!

    Any further comments pertaining to the subject of this topic need to be posted here because comments that mention that subject in the new thread will be deleted!

    Thank you,

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  107. to all you choir members out there.
    Tonight, i was in line near Ace while he was scarfing food in the Adult Choirs' Valentine Party. (He's not a member of the Adult Choir.)

    I was so close to him, I could overhear a conversation he had with one of his friends. He said that "Someone had paid like $30 to do a reverse lookup on his cell phone, and that's how I got caught". They proceeded to laugh and joke about it a little more before they walked off. I wanted so bad to say something to him, but it was evident he was walking cocky about the whole thing.

    Just thought i'd share my encounter with mr Ace tonight.

    ReplyDelete
  108. FG, I was about to email you, but your email address is not on your profile.

    ReplyDelete
  109. memphis,
    try it now. Sorry about that.

    ReplyDelete
  110. nameless said concerning Ace


    Posting his name and personal information against his wishes crosses another line.

    Piglet says:

    He was publicly obnoxious and rude, and was publicly reprimanded. My own kids know that if they defy me in public, I will chastise them publicly.

    Many here have forgiven Cary even though I hear he is unrepentant so quit trying to put innocent people on a guilt trip.

    concerned bbc member said

    So if (keyword: IF) BBC participated in criminal activity it makes it okay for people here to? A crime is a crime. And guess what? Cyberstalking is a crime.

    Piglet says:

    We KNOW BBC broke the Tenn. statute to release documents. Nobody has proven any cyberstalking. If you know of any then call the police my friend. Nobody is stopping you.

    ReplyDelete
  111. finance guy (10:21), it does not surprise me what you heard from Ace tonight.
    no conviction = no repentance

    ReplyDelete
  112. FinanceGuy......

    Was the valentine social thingy not for orchestra members too? You are being deceiving, my friend. Watch what you say.

    Has anyone here talked to him to see if he is truly repentant? No, you say? Then why are we speaking with such certainty?

    That's just something to think about...

    ReplyDelete
  113. Hey Pat,

    the Valentine's social was for both the Sanctuary Choir and the Sanctuary Orchestra. Don't be so quick to spread lies.

    ReplyDelete
  114. a certain bbc member,
    No, it was just for the sancuary choir. Well, it was never said that the orchastra was included, and in any event, I only saw 3 (Ace and three pals) members of the orchastra in there, and they weren't in there for the "events", just the food.
    And when was the last time there was a joint orchastra/choir event? It doesn't happen.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Ok in referring to this "mr. Ace" situation, I think enough is enough. As i was reading your missions statement and purpose, it only claims continually that the purpose of this site is to make Bellevue Members aware of the corruption of the government of Bellevue (which Mr. Ace is not a part of) He said some things that he should not have but he may not have said them with such intentions of hurting sotl and you have posted to have everyone believe. I mean have you even asked him what he meant by it?
    I also view this as an eye for an eye judgement which I also believe is not right. If any of you that have been posting on this blog had done what he did you would not want a big explosion of it on forums you would want to apologize and the whole thing to just die down. Not be the topic of everyone's mock and ridicule. Now that the leaders of this site have taken measures to track down the identidy of Mr. Ace I think the whole thing should die down. None of you would want to be in his shoes. There is way to much mock and ridicule is going on right here." and if any of you is without sin let him be the first to cast the stone."
    You all keep stating that Mr. Ace is "immature" I believe that the threats are immature on this blog.
    Long story short we all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God. God has forgiven Mr. Ace so why can't any of you . I have.

    ReplyDelete
  116. to mr. finance guy,
    I can assure you that he and his friends were in their for more than the food, as I was in orchestra last night, and we were not dismissed in there until about 8:05 by then most of the festivities had gone on, also you may ask any member of orchestra that last week Rev. Carter made an announcement that we were invited to the party as well.

    ReplyDelete
  117. and as a fact i can list several adults from the orchestra that went in their to listen to the end of the answeres from the little quiestionaire that the choir was given to play.

    ReplyDelete
  118. amo,

    I agree "enough is enough." That's why I started a new topic and specifically stated that the subject of this topic is not fodder for that one. You're the one still bringing it up.

    But to answer some of your questions...

    I believe this situation speaks volumes about the "corruption of the government of Bellevue" (which were your words, not mine). People are excusing his actions, just like they excuse the actions (or inactions) of Steve Gaines.

    "If any of you that have been posting on this blog had done what he did you would not want a big explosion of it on forums you would want to apologize and the whole thing to just die down."

    You'd think so, wouldn't you. But he didn't apologize any more than Steve Gaines "apologized" to the Whitmires over a year ago. He's also apparently not in any way repentant as evidenced by his publicly joking about it as recently as last night and his online (Facebook) "warnings" that the "snitch" better come forward and make himself known.

    Also, he was banned from posting here and continued to post anyway. (Read the explanation for why people cannot be individually blocked in a comment above.) Instead of just stopping, as he was requested to do, he just ramped up the rhetoric.

    "Immature"? You bet. I think he's been very immature.

    "Threats"? Where? I haven't seen a single threat made by anyone here.

    "...if any of you is without sin let him be the first to cast the stone."

    Yawn. That one's really getting old. Please refrain from taking Scripture out of context to try to make a point.

    "God has forgiven Mr. Ace so why can't any of you . I have."

    Who said they can't forgive him? In fact, I've heard numerous people say they've done just that. It doesn't negate the fact that there are consequences as a result of our actions.

    Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I thought forgiveness was based upon someone asking for forgiveness. I haven't seen that. Jesus said of those who would crucify Him, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." What about those situations where we do know what we're doing and aren't repentant and don't ask for forgiveness? Just something to think about.

    "I think the whole thing should die down."

    Amen. Let's let it, okay?

    ReplyDelete
  119. and you are 100 % right it does not negate that there are consequences for our actions I will give you an AMEN for that.

    ReplyDelete
  120. and i guess i was just quick to protect a friend, i agree let us let it die down. Please forgive me for typing what I guess was false information? I have heard alot of stuff and did not do my research.

    My second two post however are legitmate.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Thank you, amo. If you are personally acquainted with him, I hope you can help him understand this wasn't about "revenge" nor do we wish him any ill will. He just needs to realize how he's deeply offended a lot of people, take responsibility for his actions, ask for forgiveness, and change his behavior. I don't know of anyone, if he sincerely does all of those things, who couldn't forgive him. He's still banned from posting, and those are just the consequences. Nothing more.

    Thanks again,

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete
  122. THIS TOPIC IS NOW PERMANENTLY CLOSED. NO MORE COMMENTS WILL BE POSTED HERE AS WE NEED TO MOVE ON.

    Thank you,

    NBBCOF

    ReplyDelete

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