Channel 5 will have a new story at 10:00 p.m. Online article and video are here.
WREC Radio (AM 600) - The Mike Fleming Show from 4:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. today will likely have continued discussion. Live internet streaming can be accessed here.
Today's Commercial Appeal letters to the editor are here.
The Commercial Appeal's coverage is here, here, and here.
The latest from FOX13 is here with links to all previous articles and videos in the "SideBar" section.
Channel 3's latest coverage is here and here.
Channel 5's previous coverage is here, here, and here.
TV stations are rebroadcasting some of their stories during the day today.
The Michael Reagan Show can be streamed from here.
Michael Reagan's commentary is here.
Several Bellevue threads are going in the baptistlife.com "SBC News and Trends" section.
The Baptist Press article from 12/20/06 is here.
How brave you are Bellevue Enemy! Will you continue to hide behind your screen name? How brave!
ReplyDeleteRoger Hodges
bellevue friend wrote:
ReplyDelete"Dr. Lee, Dr. Pollard, Dr Rogers served Bellevue a combined 77 years with out a hint of scandal... "
Does anyone believe for a second that PW would have been asked to appear in this video if Dr. Rogers had a clue what he was hiding?
bellevue friend
ReplyDeleteIf he does not do the honorable thing and resign, or let God's people prayerfully decide, I believe Bellevue within 5 years will be a bombed out shell....unable to pay salaries or maintain the upkeep of buildings dedicated for the Glory of God!
I disagree. Watching Benny Hinn and Jimmy Swaggart, one can only conclude that the World will reward him for his lack of Godly integrity. Bellevue will become truely "six flags over Jesus" as Memphians diride us now.
My family won't be a part of it though. Of that I can assure you.
Why don't you just go away and shut your mouth now finance?
ReplyDeleteTrolls. Ignore them.
ReplyDeleteI'm just trying to figure out why all of you post anonymously!
ReplyDeleteJimmy said...
ReplyDeleteI'm just trying to figure out why all of you post anonymously!
Because the church is collecting an "enemies list". I heard a story this morning I'm not free to share that is proof of that. Looks like John Caldwell is the new keeper of the list, or at least has access to it. A shame it's come to that, but that's the reality we live in.
"jimmy,"
ReplyDeleteMaybe you could have just asked that in the first place rather than blasting people and telling them to shut up and go away. Someone might have answered you then. People have various reasons, and I think anyone with any common sense would be able to figure out what at least some of those reasons might be. We've had this discussion before, and I don't care to repeat myself. How do I know your name is "Roger Hodges"?
financeguy,
ReplyDeleteWith the current state of affairs at Bellevue, I would far rather have my name on the black list.
Jimmy/Roger Hodges (or whoever you are),
ReplyDeleteKindly remove yourself and your silly rants from this forum. You're not adding anything meaningful to the discussion. And not all of us post anonymously, so your little taunts and intimidation tactics won't work here.
Collin Houseal
tim, I understand.
ReplyDeleteI was watching "master and commander" recently, and there's a scene in that movie where the British warship is pretending to be a helpless merchant ship to lure in the French Privateer. At the signal, Captain Jack Aubrey throws off his cloak, as do his officers, revealing his navel uniform, and then go on to board the French ship.
I'm afraid the time is coming where all of us will have no choice but "remove our cloaks" and reveal ourselves in order to bring resolution to this conflict. I'm working to prepare myself emotionally and spiritually for that day. I suggest you all do as well.
I love and respect you custos, even though I don't know you, for your courage under fire.
Trolls... don't feed!
ReplyDeleteI should have said "naval". They did not infact, reveal their "navels".
ReplyDelete(gotta love homonyms).
To all, thanks for defending me to Jimmy, but his attack only strengthens my resolve, and I'm more convinced I'm headed in the right direction.
FG,
ReplyDeleteI'll back you up any day, as well as many others here who have my respect. "Jimmy" and his ilk do not.
I'm not trying to play the bouncer, but while I have not much patience for anonymous folks (though I understand why some see the need, as I've expressed before) — I have ZERO tolerance for would-be men whose only purpose is intimidation.
NASS,
Don't worry, no more feeding.
Collin Houseal
The clip of the Mike Flemming show where he got a phone call from Joyce Rogers can be downloaded below. Maybe someone can type up a quick transcript. I am a terrible typist! [I think you guys knew that already. ;-)]
ReplyDeletehttp://www.filecrunch.com/file/~ihwy7y#
Nass - there is code at this site where you can link
hat tip: ju
Clickable Link. Nice find Ju!
ReplyDeleteJoyce Rogers on the Mike Fleming show responding to integrity of her husband.
Mrs. Rogers states on the Fleming show that there is a Biblical standard for how to handle church matters and sin amongst us. I was there when Dr. Rogers handled severe “moral failures” in the past. The PW incident doesn’t even begin to compare to the incidents Dr. Rogers was forced to deal with. How much more swiftly and completely would he have handled this one?
ReplyDeleteDr. Rogers modeled this biblical standard as he addressed the Southern Baptist Convention many years ago.
We could apply his comments from many years ago to our issues today.
We don’t have to get together.
Bellevue Baptist Church doesn’t have to survive.
We don’t have to be members of Bellevue Baptist Church.
We don’t have to live.
But WE MUST NOT COMPRIMISE THE WORD OF GOD.
Please continue to lift Mrs., Rogers up in prayer.
Somthing that has been on mind. If we are saying that Dr. Gaines should go to jail for not immediately reporting P.W., wouldn't Mrs. Williams be just as guilty. Someone help me through this and tell me where I am wrong.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSendTheLight50@aol.com wrote:
ReplyDeleteThis is at least 8 students your school has lost already and they have all read your cover up letter of rhetoric!
People lets save our sons and daughters from being influenced by Michael Spradlin at Mid America Seminary!
Reply:
I understand that you are upset with Dr. Spradlin.
I would like to know if you had listened to Mrs. Rogers on the Mike Fleming show on the radio yesterday. She had asked that the church clearly state that they were not refering to Dr. Rogers when they refered to past ministers being aware of the situation with Mr. Williams. The repsonse that she received was that they felt the statement was good enough and did not require that clarification.
Perhaps it angered you that Steve Gaines may have been offended by Dr. Spradlin becuase it was pointed out that Steve Gaines had done something wrong. Does it not bother you in the least that Steve Gaines publicly humilated Mrs. Rogers and the entire Rogers' family when they had done nothing wrong.
zachwade,
ReplyDeleteThe link did not work so I am not sure what you were trying to show. However, peoples opinions are changed every day. Facts and truth tend to do that.
Gee Tim,
ReplyDeleteYour reply to SendThyLight was way more subdued than mine.
Karen
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletekaren,
ReplyDeleteThis is the kinder, gentler, Tim. I believe that for the most part I am over the anger.
There are still some things that really get me. The reference to "prior people" that Mrs. Rogers had to clarify for example. That is still making my blood boil.
zachwade,
Still no luck on that link.
zachwade,
ReplyDeleteMy opinion was changed, so I know that it is possible. The facts are fairly evident.
There are people that refuse to look at the facts because they fear that it might require that something be done.
There are others that really don't care one way or another just so long as no one sits in their pew chair.
There are others like myself that refused to mindlessly listen to instructions to believe them and not go investigating on your own. Those that want to know the truth can find it.
There is a final group that knows the truth and has chose to conceal it.
PW is shoppng for Christmas in Sommerville on paid leave.
ReplyDeleteHe was at work as late as last Friday morning (12/15).
I had a frightful thought. What if SG takes 3-4 men and decides to pay Mrs. Rogers a "visit?" Even if he takes Mrs. Gaines, to make it look non-threatening, wouldn't that be obvious? I mean, what if he tries his old intimidation tactics on this poor old woman so she'll "retract" or drop her statement that they would not clarify that her husband knew about this?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't put it past him.
I just have one comment to add to all this craziness. Let's just say for one moment - just suspend all common sense with me here - that Dr. Gaines is completely pure in his heart and motives etc. in all situations. . .At best he has proven himself stupid and incompetent CONSISTENTLY and yet this is that man that people think in all wisdom to be the appropriate leader of a flagship church?
ReplyDeleteOne more point, the only man that is God's "anointed" today is Jesus Christ. To him is our only allegiance. Is Steve Gaines the pope of Bellevue? Is his word law? Is he unquestionable?
From Mike Fleming's Staff,
ReplyDeleteWe've had several requests...and have posted the audio on this page:
http://www.600wrec.com/cc-common/podcast.html
You'll find it in the Mike Fleming section
Well I for one refuse to kiss his ring.
ReplyDeleteTo further your point, from a PR view, he either has an idiot for an advisor or he has none. You'd think he would think of PR a little better. But as corrupt as he is, he can't even do that right.
He could be doing so much to endear himself to those who loved Pastor Rogers, even if he didn't mean it.
I'm not giving him any ideas though.
Pinker,
ReplyDeleteI agree, Mrs. Rogers would rebuke them in Jesus' name in a heartbeat, in a gracious way, of course. (I would probably shut the door in their faces as well)
I doubt they would have the nerve to face her, but if there are 4 of them to prop each others backbones up, they may try, but I would think it would be bloody if they did:)She may be gracious, but she is one tough cookie!
I have thought about that Philkat. Either SG has ulterior motives with many of these issues or he's just plain not the sharpest knife in the box. It's just not intelligent to keep that conversation between PW and himself confidential. Following that logic if his supporters decide that he must just not be very skilled at dealing with big church leadership then he's not really the man to lead BBC is he?
ReplyDeleteThis is going to be publicized nation wide if it's not already.
ReplyDeleteAt least Haggard PAID a CONSENTING ADULT!
Sick! And Bellevue still pays PW a salary?
JU,
ReplyDeleteHis ambitions outweigh his capabilities, he is in over his head for sure. He is used to small town politics and is trying to establish himself as a BMOC and does not know how. Unfortunately, if he should have followed his so called mentor "Dr Rogers" that he shut out, he would have learned how to scripturally be the leader he should be - as a servant to all.
He should really go back to Dyersburg and start over again.
Charis,
ReplyDeleteThey are paying him (PW) with the Lord's money - the tithes and offering we give "as unto the Lord". They are accountable to HIM for that! Scary thought!
charis,
ReplyDeletethis has definitely already been publicized nationwide...
Off-topic question... how do you make those little garbage cans show up? Email me if you can help.
ReplyDeleteThanks :)
ju,
ReplyDeletePlease either make your profile visible, or your comments will be deleted.
Thank you,
NBBCOF
charis,
ReplyDeleteTry this. If you still can't see the trashcan(s) after trying their suggestions, please e-mail me, and I'll delete any comments you want deleted.
NBBCOF
David Perdue's actions just don't make sense.
ReplyDeleteDavid Perdue is on the Trustee Board at Mid America Seminary.
David Perdue thought Dr. Mike Spradlin was God's annointed man for being the President of Mid America Seminary.
David Perdue and the rest of the Gaines gang have said over and over it's a sin to question God's annointed. They say be quiet and let God handle it.
David Perdue, why did you ask for the resignation of Dr. Mike Spradlin yesterday? If you have changed your philosophy on questioning authority, why is it wrong for others to call for Steve Gaines to step down?
Could it be that this rule only applies to certain people? Where's the consistency? Where's the integrity.
This reminds me of liberals working their way into the church. Rules apply only when it benefits them. When the rules don't benefit them, they ignore them even if it means breaking the law.
How is the tithing record of the staff these days? Is Steve Gaines going to let any of them go? How about the deacons, soloists, and teachers? Are any of them going to be fired at the end of the year?
Are you still working on Steve Gaines TV deal? Did you purchase a TV station for Steve Gaines?
Is Mike Fleming still talking about BBC? I was making dinner and couldn't listen to the computer stream. I had trouble getting it started once I was done. It started working just in time for commercials.
ReplyDeletehousewife said: I had a frightful thought. What if SG takes 3-4 men and decides to pay Mrs. Rogers a "visit?" Even if he takes Mrs. Gaines, to make it look non-threatening, wouldn't that be obvious? I mean, what if he tries his old intimidation tactics on this poor old woman so she'll "retract" or drop her statement that they would not clarify that her husband knew about this?
ReplyDeletehousewife, I'd say there would be a sizable group of men with pitchforks and torches showing up in the dead of night at some men's houses, accompanied by a large batch of tar and feathers. I've got a pitchfork...anybody got some tar and feathers just in case? :)
And just for "jimmy", I'll sign:
I'm Ed Thompson, and I approve this message.
K, thanks.
ReplyDeleteMike says Spradlin should have taken his comments to Gaines. Whatever. Deaf ears.
ReplyDeleteGood job Josh! (on radio)
ReplyDeleteA Word for all Believers. Do not worry, He is in control:
ReplyDeleteHebrews 4:12-16
12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Just thinking outloud
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Dr. Spradlins account of the interview with the commercial appeal and the next day David Perdue calling a meeting to oust Dr. Spradlin...Could this whole thing been a set up to get rid of Dr. Spradlin...We all know how much Dr. Gaines wants control of the seminary......
Thank you Dr. Spradlin for standing firm......
Oh boy. A deacon is saying SG never asked for the loyalty pledge. I wouldn't expect them to admit it.
ReplyDeleteLet me ask one question?
ReplyDeleteIs it a fact the moral failure of PW was that he he molested his son...It doesn't make sense that SG would allow him to stay on as a minister if this was the case...Has anyone spoken to PW's son or PW to confirm this??? Just wondering...
Now he's saying we never wanted him as pastor and we have lied about what we accused him.
ReplyDeleteThis is ridiculous. And he is saying we're responsible for bringing this foward at this particular time.
I guess he would rather it never come out!
housewife,
ReplyDeleteare you watching the news or something?
A caller told Mike about Pastor Rogers asking SG to resign before he died and after annointing SG. The caller wanted to know if that would change Mike's mind about SG.
ReplyDelete(Mike had said that it was good enough for him that Pastor Rogers annointed SG.)
Mike responded that if he can confirm that, it would change his mind.
pinker socks wrote:
ReplyDelete"Why do we not know who the retired minister is that PW confided in? (if it's even true) Surely someone has that info. This person should be facing serious charges."
I'm not certain, but the person I heard was the retired minister in whom PW confided was already retired when the confession took place and is now deceased.
Listening to Mike Fleming. =)
ReplyDeleteSome people have surprised Mike with some facts that have clearly taken Mike aback and made Mike ask more questions and clarifications. He's a reporter. I'm sure he's going to investigate.
I hope he does.
I have been reading this space for a while and I'll have to tell you that I did not agree with what most of yall were saying but after hearing that Josh fellow on Mike's show...ok Steve Gains has to go! I have been thinking for a while. Has anyone reported him to the police? He and the associate preacher should be in PRISON!
ReplyDeleteDo yall think that his wife knew? Sure she did! She ought to be behind bars to. I didn't realize that that guy counseled people that had been molested!
I'm glad yall set this up now and I agree that Steve gains is a false prophet. Satan has entered the church. Get him our or like yall---I'm ready to go! And to those who think we oughta forgive him---NOPE!
He put every one of the children at Bellevue in the hands of a child molester! Unbelievable! And I'll be the one to start a petition. I'll type it up and pass it around Bible Fellowship and outside the sanctuary. If yall want copies just let me know. That was a good idea earlier. See you then and I'm glad we here atleast support each other.
Who exactly is Josh and what does he do at the church? Does anyone have his phone number? I'm sure he'll want to sign first.
Let me ask one question?
ReplyDeleteLet me post this again...
Is it a fact the moral failure of PW was that he molested his son...It doesn't make sense that SG would allow him to stay on as a minister if this was the case...Has anyone spoken to PW's son or PW to confirm this??? Just wondering...
Did yall know Dr. Rogers told Stave Gains to resign? I just heard it on the radio!
ReplyDeleteReadytoleave, yes. We knew. We also know that Pastor Rogers told Brother Whitmire that he felt duped.
ReplyDeleteI think it is an absolutely DESPICABLE act by the caller that suggested that Dr. Rogers had asked Dr. Gaines to resign. For this "man" to make such an accusation without even the hint of fact is terrible.
ReplyDeleteHousewife,
ReplyDeleteHow is it that you knew? This faction in the church has been causing havoc since August(publically) and all of a sudden you are saying AR asked SG to resign?
It is a sad act of total desperation for you and your faction to make comments about a dead man that can't defend himself. You should be absolutely ashamed!!!
Was it fair that it was alluded to that Dr. Rogers had knowledge of PW's
ReplyDeletefailure, and forced his widow to have to clear his name...and THAT because Dr. Gaines wouldn't honor her request?
ready,
ReplyDeleteJosh is not on staff at BBC. He is a graduate student at a college in Boston.
Readytoleave said...
ReplyDelete"Did yall know Dr. Rogers told Stave Gains to resign? I just heard it on the radio!"
Ready,
I just finished listening to the entire broadcaast, also. This allegation is anouther RUMOR! You are acting like it is the unmitigated fact, just because this guy just said this with no proof.
forget for a moment that PW is on paid leave...not fired as of yet
ReplyDeleteIs the church already so apostate that it will not even practice church discipline? Love, grace, forgiveness...sure...but he needs to be put out first and foremost...I'm not sure in the current church atmosphere if there is any sin that will cause the church to act biblically along the lines of disciplining a member
This isn't a new fact. Some people have known that for a while now.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to reveal my sources. I'll let them say it. But it wouldn't matter if they did. You're just going to keep making excuses for SG anyway.
The amount of damage that has been done in the church isn’t even close to the damage that has been done to those outside. When people become angry over what songs are sung during a worship service (contemporary praise or hymns), and let such little things interrupt the real reason for gathering together in God’s house, they become overwhelmed with the negative statements that can be gathered against the one they wish to blame. This is not an example that should be set forth for those that are seeking salvation from Christ. Those that don’t know the gospel, but are truly looking for the truth that comes from the salvation of Christ, see this petty arguing and can only wonder is this what I want for my life? This has now reached inappropriate measures by taking it to the public. What you have done is unchangeable and even if you get what you wanted out of this, the damage of Bellevue’s reputation will never be fixed because of you, not Dr. Gaines. And apologies should be given to the poor Rogers family for all of this as well. You have now entered into people’s minds, “what kind of man was Dr. Rogers?” You did this by claiming you know the thought of this man. You have stated that Dr. Rogers would not have handled this in this manner or he wouldn’t have done this like this – how do you know how Dr. Rogers would have handled anything? By simply mentioning his name you have brought the wrong things into question. And, to make it worse, the poor man isn’t here to defend himself or make a statement of what he deems worthy of report! You have even led his widow to believe that her husband’s untainted reputation has now come into question. How dare you!
ReplyDelete2 Timothy 2:14: "Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value and only ruins those who listen."
2 Timothy 2:16: "Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene."
2 Timothy 2:23: "Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will."
2 Timothy 4:3: "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their ITCHING EARS WANT TO HEAR. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."
That being said, this unbelievable turn of events that began as a witch hunt by those who don't like change, need to be leery of continuing in this gossip and hate, that is tearing the church apart! A selective few decided when Dr. Gaines came as our pastor, they wouldn’t like or approve anything that he did because he wasn’t Dr. Rogers. Dr. Rogers said himself that Dr. Gaines was the man for this church. That meant that after praying and seeking God’s will, he concurred that this was the man for the task. You starters of hate and trouble need to be asking, no begging, God for forgiveness. “But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil,” Romans 2:12.
Housewife said...
ReplyDelete"Readytoleave, yes. We knew. We also know that Pastor Rogers told Brother Whitmire that he felt duped."
Housewife,
Who is we? And why didn't you come forward earlier with this? And since you are "in the loop" and you know so much, WHO KNEW ABOUT PW? WHO IS STEVE PROTECTING? It seems to me that the fingerpointing should be directed somewhere else; probably 10 to 15 people from the previous admin, but not Dr. Rogers.
Housewife,
ReplyDeleteyou stated,"I'm not going to reveal my sources. "
How convenient. I've been on this site for only a couple of days and you're what I would call a ringtail leader and you just now bring this up? Had you heard it before it was aired on the radio, you'd have been all over this site with that.
I will pray very hard for you my dear, cause you need the Lord in your life.
1. How did Dr. Rogers feel duped?
ReplyDelete2. How did Josh get to be the spokesman for this?
3.Why did Dr. Rogers ask Steve to leave?
4. Why hasn't this come out before?
You conveniently try to say over and over again that this is just about the music in an effort to distract from all of the nonesense that SG has dished out. It's an effort to discredit those with legitimate concerns and questions.
ReplyDeleteNice try.
How do we know how Pastor Rogers would act? We know by considering how he dealt with sin throughout his tenure. That's how. He proved that he would deal with attrocities such as adulterers (and pedophiles) in office swiftly and harshly.
And now you're saying that we forced Mrs. Rogers to defend her husband? Actually it was SG who forced her to defend her late husband! And you're insulting Mrs. Rogers by suggesting she's an unwitting pawn of the opposition. Mrs. Rogers is a very smart and strong lady!!! She is more than capable of making this sort of decision all on her own. You're not giving her credit!
billy,
ReplyDeleteI understand that emotions are running high. However, making judgments about someone else's salvation are uncalled for and accomplish nothing toward the healing of our wounded fellowship. With all due Christian love and respect for your right to your opinions, please consider deleting the last post you directed at housewife.
Let me ask this one more time...It seems most bloggers are ignoring my post and I would like to know if any one has talked to PW or his son...SG never said what this moral failure was from the pulpit and was wondering if any one had proof that this was because PW molested his son...I would think if this was true then they would have him in jail by now or at least charged. Why is his wife still with him if this happened? It just doens't make since...It doesn't make sense that SG would allow him to stay on as a minister if this was the case...Just wondering...Check my profile for my email if too sensitive to post on blog...Thanks..
ReplyDeleteOh boy we've been over this so many times. Some of you come in and don't understand that there have been many discussions already. If you don't know who Brother Jim Whitmire is, then you must read some of the earlier posts, please!
ReplyDeleteYou'll also find out why he has chosen not to speak.
maybejustmaybe,
ReplyDeleteI will not delete my last post directed at housewife.
I have my questions about the faith of someone who makes wild accusations and is unwilling to cite her sources.
I'm not saying housewife isn't a Christian, but it is my opinion that she is following men an not the Lord.
Larry the Lying Deacon
ReplyDeleteBellevue was just represent by a lying deacon named Larry on the Mike Fleming show.
Larry I wish I could find you so that I could confront you in person about lying and misrepresenting the Loyalty Letter issue.
I wonder how you sleep at night sir.
You are a Lying Deacon and you do not deserve to represent Bellevue or any other church as a deacon.
Repent and be delivered from you sin!
The Sword of Truth has fallen, let it cut all the way to the marrow if it must!
I hadn't mentioned it lately because we've been over this before. By your own admission, you're new. Please go back to read about this. You'll find there are many people who have talked about this.
ReplyDeletepoor-in-spirit, I wasn't trying to ignore you. But you asked if anyone has spoken to the son and I haven't. That's why I didn't say anything. I hope you are able to talk to someone who has. =)
ReplyDeleteHey housewife,
ReplyDeleteYou said that we would just make excuses for SG anyway. You have just proven in your own words, that no matter what is brought to light in favor of SG, you will never believe it. And that's your freedom as an American to think the way you want to. I'm also sure that the other 40 to 45 people on this open forum, who oppose SG, will NEVER change thier mind either. So, as long as he is our pastor why don't you and the other 40 to 45 people go ahead and leave and start a new church life elsewhere. And quit throwing stones on this blog. If SG is removed or steps down, then come back if ya'll want to. God will sort this whole mess out. And His Will will be done.
I heard that too sword! I couldn't believe it!!
ReplyDeleteFor those of you asking why this is coming out now about Rogers asking SG to resign.....
IT'S NOT JUST COMING OUT NOW.
Don't mean to shout. I just want it to stand out since it seems to be ignored.
Again, this have been discussed at length on this forum. Please go back to the New BBC Open Forum page and you will find many pages of past dicussions. You can find this and MUCH MORE written by other people as well.
Please remember that all of this didn't start the day you decided to join us. =)
If the church had a meeting and let a representative from each side have 30 minutes to present their case to the church and then vote to keep or fire SG, would that satisfy "Saving Bellevue". If SG were reconfirmed would you bring down the websight and go away? ROLLCALL
ReplyDeleteYES! Sounds great!
ReplyDeleteYeah, SG has made it a sport to kick people out who dare to ask questions.
ReplyDeleteI can give credit where credit is due. But it is very telling that even with this pedophile terror at our church, people are still finding a way to make excuses for our pastor for breaking the law and putting our children at further risk. This is sick.
We can forgive him. I certainly have and I'm sure most people have too. But that doesn't mean that he's exempt from consequences.
no one on this blog made SG trespass..yes..it's called trespassing..which is against the law.
ReplyDeleteno one on this blog made SG stand in the pulpit.."apologize" for a "mistake of the mind, not the heart"..then excuse himself because it was an "itty bitty" fence.
no one on this blog makes the administration hide where the money goes. (salaries)
no one on this blog made SG go to Union City and say the things he said about this congregation.
no one on this blog told SG to apologize for these things before the congregation with the qualifier of "if" anyone was offended.
no one on this blog made some of the staff's jobs so unbearable they were compelled to leave.
no one on this blog had knowledge of child molestation in June 2006 and concealed it for 6 mos.
no one on this blog alluded to the former administration in connection with child molestation charges.
no one on this blog, because of allusions to the former administration, forced the widow of Dr. Rogers to contact the media to clear her husband's name, because SG wouldn't honor her request.
blame it on this blog if you want...SG and administration has done it to themselves.
Well, I can't take down savingbellevue because it's not mine.
ReplyDeleteAs far as a roll call. That depends. Would it be properly announced???? Or would it be a surprise so as to ensure that proper numbers aren't represented?
Housewife,
ReplyDeleteI must have missed those posts about AR thinking he had made a mistake. But I honestly have been following this, off & on, since late Aug.
Now, I must shout now, also. Because no one is coming forward. And I can't believe that if so many of you on here know so much about the inner workings of our church that no one knows anything about the person or persons who have know about PW for YEARS.
WHO KNEW ABOUT PW IN THE PAST!
Bellevue is not stupid, overthrow!
ReplyDeleteBilly,
ReplyDeleteI hope you're real young and naïve but I fear that you're older and can't accept the truth.
You said,
"And apologies should be given to the poor Rogers family for all of this as well. You have now entered into people’s minds, “what kind of man was Dr. Rogers?” You did this by claiming you know the thought of this man. You have stated that Dr. Rogers would not have handled this in this manner or he wouldn’t have done this like this – how do you know how Dr. Rogers would have handled anything? By simply mentioning his name you have brought the wrong things into question. And, to make it worse, the poor man isn’t here to defend himself or make a statement of what he deems worthy of report! You have even led his widow to believe that her husband’s untainted reputation has now come into question. How dare you!"
Can you reword what you're trying to say and reblog? This doesn't make any sense to anyone reading this.
If anyone owes the Rogers family an apology, it's Steve Gaines, Mark Dougharty, David Perdue, Harry Smith, John Caldwell, Chuck Taylor, and Steve Tucker (who has stated now that Dr. Rogers was the spinmeister).
It was Steve Gaines that told Bellevue (with Dr. Rogers on the front row) he was going teach Bellevue how to worship and how to be a praying church.
It was Steve Gaines that went back to Gardendale http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4qLfeIrQ6s
the day he accepted the call and trashed Bellevue Baptist Church.
It was Steve Gaines that came in like a roaring lion and started dismantling everything at Bellevue.
It was these other men who allowed Steve Gaines to continue on and slap him on the back and tell him what a good job he was doing.
It was Steve Gaines that started bragging about the numbers and the giving being up. To brag about numbers is wrong. God builds His church, not a man. Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker were really doing well when they fell because they were multimillionaires with giving way up and the number of people going thru the roof. This kind of thinking is sinful.
You haven't heard much of any numbers anymore the last two months. In fact, one of Steve Gaines deacons on WREC tonight, said everything was good with Steve because the attendance and giving were up.
What about now? Attendance has dropped more than 20% from a year ago. Giving has tanked the last 2 months. The Love Offering was the smallest in over 20 years this year. If Steve Gaines was great because of the increase in numbers, why are these same men not mentioning them anymore?
Integrity does count and Steve Gaines is going to be checking your tithe. He's on record saying that.
Also, would people be allowed to ask questions in an open mike forum so that we can get to the bottom of many things? Or would there be the usual "only our side gets to speak?"
ReplyDeleteHousewife and allofgrace,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think???
"If the church had a meeting and let a representative from each side have 30 minutes to present their case to the church and then vote to keep or fire SG, would that satisfy "Saving Bellevue". If SG were reconfirmed would you bring down the websight and go away?"
housewife (or others),
ReplyDeleteIf you're familiar with the past discussions, could you help me out and point us to the past discussions of Dr. Rogers asking Dr. Gaines to resign?
I'm very interested by this.
Thanks.
If you have the numbers it really shouldnt matter but...lets say you have a weeks notice to rally all of the "saving bellevue" troops.
ReplyDeleteThe only Larry on the deacon's list is Larry Thomas unless it was someone who was newly appointed since November or .....
ReplyDeleteThere is no way that you can have a long open mic...it would deteriorate fast. Let's just go with 30 minutes of manning, matlock, sharp or whoever.
ReplyDeleteIt would never happen because Gaines wouldn't come out too good if people were allowed to ask questions in an open mike.
ReplyDeleteIf he was so willing, why hasn't he done it already? There have been MANY requests for this and the answer is always the same -- NO!
As far as helping you find where the discussion is about Rogers/SG, I don't have time for that. I hate to put it so bluntly. But you may have to do your own homework. We've all have to go back and read. Maybe others can be more helpful.
In light of all that is troubling the Gaines family, I would like to issue all of us a warning (although Steve Gaines needs to resign immediately):
ReplyDelete"Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when he stumbles, do not let your heart rejoice, or the LORD will see and disapprove and turn his wrath away from him." Prov. 24:17-18
Certainly Steve and Donna Gaines fit a familiar proverb, "They sow the wind and reap the whirlwind" Hosea 8:7. They are reaping the results of what they have sown.
Steve and Donna Gaines are our brothers and sisters in Christ:
"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness, Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble."
1 John 2:9-10
Let's heed the advice of Proverbs 24:17-18 and not rejoice at the stumbling, blundering and the falling of Steve and Donna Gaines.
Ok Houswife....lets say we had 30 minutes of questions. If you loose will you go away!
ReplyDeleteIf it came to a vote and to be fair to the 28,000 members, it would need to be a balloted vote just like GBC had and not a stand up pep rally .
ReplyDeleteIf all but one member voted to keep Gaines as pastor he would still be a man without integrity!
ReplyDeleteIf all but one member voted to keep Gaines as pastor he would still be a liar.
Votes can`t change a sow`s ear into a silk purse!
Steve Gaines needs a change in heart and mind and spirit.
Steve Gaines needs to be delivered from his evil ways.
Adrian Rogers asked Steve Gaines to resign and I agree with him.
surefoundation,
ReplyDeletethere's certainly no joy in any of this..who in their right mind would wish any of this? I certainly didn't ask for any of it. I've been a Christian 14 yrs..in 2 churches...this is the 4th church upheaval I've seen in 14 yrs...joy?..gloating?...surely you jest.
Steve Gaines can have an open meeting and answer ever question and he would still be a wolf in sheep`s clothing and a hireling.
ReplyDeleteMeet all you want but until Steve Gaines decides that he no longer wants to be an arrogant hireling, we will still have a man of no integrity in the pulpit.
Swordoftruth,
ReplyDeleteThat is what I expected. You guys are the only ones who have any answers. Nothing will make you happy except for SG stepping down.
Adrian Rogers did not ask Steve Gaines to step down. That is a lie and it shows how poor your character is that you would spread that without any evidence. Worse character than what you accuse SG of.
AllofGrace,
ReplyDeleteTrouble seems to follow you. I have been a Christian for 21 years and this is my first church "uphevial". What gives?
The truth will not change because of a vote. I would love a vote. If SG is voted to stay on as pastor, then BBC loses.
ReplyDeleteIf that were to happen, you could ask us to go away. I'm not sure I could based on a popularity contest. I would have to consider the issues, not the numbers.
If you're looking for me to let go of the truth in favor of a popular vote, sorry. Can't do that. There are many things that today's society says is right that really isn't. Sin and morality isn't based on popularity.
As far as the one who said that we shouldn't gloat, I agree. But there is a difference between gloating and knowing that if we back down, SG will again get away with it.
How many more Pedophiles are roaming the halls of Bellevue?
ReplyDeleteHow many deacons are into pornography?
How many liars serve on the board and in the committees and as deacons and staff members?
How many adulterers are in leadership positions at Bellevue?
How many men in leadership are abusing their wives?
How many women staffers are in an affair?
How many leaders at Bellevue are cheating on their taxes?
How many Bellevue ministers are hiding their own secret sins?
Bellevue needs true revival.
OK Sword,
ReplyDeleteIasked this question Wed night on the forum and no one answered. I have asked it twice tonight here. I am going to ask it again. And the reason I am asking you and housewife, is because both of you act like you have inside info.
WHO KNEW ABOUT PW IN THE PAST ADMINISTRATION? WHO IS STEVE GAINES PROTECTING?
So housewife nothing will make you happy except for SG to step down and the church to have split worse that Germantown. Dear..you really are a STRONG CHRISTIAN.
ReplyDeleteHow do you know Rogers didn't aske SG to resign? Just because you heard it here?
ReplyDeleteSame brush if you ask me.
Adrian Rogers washed Steve Gaines feet but it didn`t take long before he saw the true man and it broke his heart.
ReplyDeleteHe told a few close friends that we had been duped.
He knew he had been decieved by Steve Gaines and now many are seeing what he saw.
And how many of us have sin in our lives? (mjm ashamedly raises her hand ...)
ReplyDeleteoverflowinggrace,
ReplyDeletedont't worry so much...i'm sure you'll keep SG..but be careful what you desire..this blog may disappear as well as it's participants..but you'll still have SG..when he gets such a monkey grip on BBC that you couldn't get him out with dynamite..there won't be anyone there to oppose him..but by then you'll all be stepford sheep. no worries.
If there is a split, than it's SG's fault for lack of integrity. If you're so worried about numbers, than I'm worried about you.
ReplyDeleteSometimes, a good housecleaning is needed. And yes, it's starts with SG's resignation.
THE SWORD OF TRUTH HAS FALLEN, LET IT CUT ALL THE WAY TO THE MARROW IF IT MUST!!!!
ReplyDeleteIF STEVE GAINES RESIGNS, BELLEVUE STILL NEEDS TO BE DELIVERD FROM OTHER EVIL LEADERS.
TRUTH CAN NOT BE COMPROMISED, TO DO SO WILL BRING SPIRITUAL DEATH.
sword, those are good and legitimate questions.
ReplyDeleteWe would like to believe that those questions do not need to be asked, but to assume that every person in the leadership of the church (deacons, pastors, teachers, staff) are soundy saved is not wise.
Jesus told us about the wheat and the tares... growing together in the same field.
And there's Matthew 7.15
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
They come in sheep's clothing - meaning, they look like sheep! But they're not!
2 Peter 2.1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
Steve Gaines how do you sleep at night knowing that you locked Adrian Rogers out of the his old office?
ReplyDeleteDonna how do sleep at night knowing that you sleep with man who go about disrespecting widows and children?
I am afraid that all of this will end up in the judicial system. If it does go to trial then the person or persons who were aware of PW in the past WILL have thier lives destroyed or at least disrupted.
ReplyDeleteYa'll know something and your ignoring me.
WHO KNEW ABOUT PW IN THE PAST?
Wow... sarcasm and personal attacks aren't very reflective of the fruit of the Spirit either.
ReplyDeleteMatthew 12:36
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak
maybejustmaybe said...
ReplyDeleteAnd how many of us have sin in our lives? (mjm ashamedly raises her hand ...)
8:09 PM, December 22, 2006
So mjm we all sin and that is ok?Are you trying to say since I sin then I should not be concerned about a man who rapes his son because we all sin?
I'm really courious if this is what you are trying to say.
Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
ReplyDelete22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Mark Wiley said...
ReplyDeleteI am afraid that all of this will end up in the judicial system. If it does go to trial then the person or persons who were aware of PW in the past WILL have thier lives destroyed or at least disrupted.
Ya'll know something and your ignoring me.
WHO KNEW ABOUT PW IN THE PAST?
8:18 PM, December 22, 2006
If these people knew that this man was raping his son and did nothing then they should be exposed and sued by the victim(s).How on earth can a man preach morals, holy living,following Christ and be quiet as a fellow minister rapes his son?
Sword,
ReplyDeleteYour sword is cutting SG up. Now let me hear you cut up the person or persons that allowed to let this PERVERT roam the halls for years. How dare ya'll keep protecting the original HIDERS of this pervert. They are CRIMINALS!
After asking over and over again and no one answers. You guys are the ones deflecting the fault. SWORDOFSECRECY!
Isaiah 30:9-14
ReplyDelete9.These are rebellious people, deceitful children, children who are unwilling to listen to the Lord's instruction.
10.The say to the seers, "See no more visions!" and to the prophets, Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions.
11.Leave this way, get off this path, and stop confronting us with the Holy One of Israel!"
12.Therefore, this is what the Holy One of Israel says: "Because you have rejected this message, relied on oppression, and depended on deceit,
13.this sin will become for you like a high wall, cracked and bulging, that collapses suddenly, in an instant.
14.It will break in pieces like pottery, shattered so mercilessly that among it's pieces not a fragment will be found for taking coals from a hearth or scooping water out of a cistern."
Actually, if you had gone back to read, you would know that many of us have also said that whoever harbored him should face the consequences.
ReplyDeleteIf most of us haven't answered your question about who knew about PW, it's because we don't know who that minister is.
Nass answered you by saying that she understands that it was a minister who was already retired at the time of the confession and the that minister has now passed away.
Mark,
ReplyDeleteI would imagine you know every bit as much as we know..which is SG found out 6 mos ago...we found out last Sunday...there you have it.
trucker,
ReplyDeleteNo, that's not what I'm saying.
Housewife said...
ReplyDelete"Oh boy. A deacon is saying SG never asked for the loyalty pledge. I wouldn't expect them to admit it."
I didn't hear Mike's show and do not know what else this deacon said, but this is the truth. The pledge was proposed by a motion from the floor at the November deacon's meeting by David Lorance and seconded (I think by Dr Van Snider). It was passed by a majority of the deacons, although not by everyone. After a couple of attempts to go forward with the proposal it was ammended by a motion from Gene Howard to ask the pastor if he wanted to do this before doing it. The pastor refused to say ya or nay, but left it up to the deacons. Chuck Taylor decided to can the whole idea.
How do I know? Because I am a deacon and was in attendance at these meetings. I am also one deacon who agrees that the pastor should resign but want to be fair. He has enough failures without saddling (a little Steve Tucker lingo) him with one he had nothing to do with.
I'm sorry, but I haven't found anything that suggests Dr. Rogers asked Dr. Gaines to resign. If it's on another blog, please point me there. Until I see it, I'll have to assume that anyone who claims it happened is lying.
ReplyDeleteswordoftruth,
Hatred is an ugly thing.
Then please explain to me what you ment.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Housewife,
ReplyDeleteI understand and read what NASS said. But, that's too convenient. Only one man knew and that one man is now dead. I don't think so. And you people seem to know EVERYTHING that the the rest of us pions do not know. Therefore, I think ya'll know more than your saying.
And if you don't know, then all 40 to 45 of you need to quit acting like you know everything, because evidently you don't.
eleos,
ReplyDeletethanks for clearing that up..contrary to popular belief, our concerns are not about music...it's about transparency and integrity in our leadership and our church...we want a decent set of by-laws and regular business meeting so that the congregation can have knowledge of and a voice in what goes on in BBC.
eleos, I stand by what I say... That I wouldn't expect SG to admit he asked a deacon to do this, in private, of course. But I'll leave it to you to tell me about the meeting.
ReplyDeleteThat said, the guy on the radio did say what has been falsely claimed by the SG camp before. He said unanimously. You have admitted that it was majority.
We have also heard from other deacons that some deacons walked out of the meeting. That's hardly a way to get a unanimous vote anyway.
This isn't the only page with discourse. Keep digging. Think what you want. You will anyway.
ReplyDeleteDear Mark: Trust me if I had any idea who these men ae I would have/will turned them in also. I was the one the made the report to DCS on December 8th. They could not do anything until I learned the name of the minister and that was on 12th. I think the the D.A was very clear again tonight. You cannot "protect", hide or cover-up suspected abuse. As I have been saying for weeks, anything you SUSPECT there is abuse of a child you MUST report it. Now it has become abundantly clear to all. You are beating a dead horse here. No one here is guilty of covering up. I think we all can agree this is an outrage. And I still say it was wrong to not disclose this back in June. I have no concerns with this other stuff with Dr. Gaines but I do fault him for this ONE very stupid mistake. I for one will not stand by and see our children in Memphis, Shelby County or Tennesse put in harms way because someone decides not to report suspected abuse because of ignorance or whatever you want to call. I think Kevin Rardin called it something else.
ReplyDeleteDavid Brown
SNAP Representative of Memphis & West Tennesee
And I do approve this message!
I'm not acting like I know everything. Just because I know more than you doesn't mean I know everything.
ReplyDeleteBTW, it's not my fault the minister died.
Faith,
ReplyDeleteThey are all liars, that need to get a life. Thats why they all hide behind these silly names. It's so contrary to the way a Christian should stand up against sin. Why should the righteous where a mask or hide behind some silly screen name. There just upset that they have to watch the Jamie Parker show every Sunday.
David Brown,
ReplyDeleteThank you sincerely for exposing this pervert. I think SG made a huge mistake in not reporting it in June. I can't help but think that there is a whole lot more to this story than any of us know.
overflowinggrace,
ReplyDeleteright...we're all liars...but they're only itty bitty lies...mistakes of the mind, not the heart..surely you can show grace and mercy to liars if you can do the same for child molesters.
trucker, I'll try --
ReplyDeleteI guess I just read the comments here and I see things like what "swordoftruth" posted, with one accusation enumerated after another, and then I make a post that I feel in my heart brings a much-needed balance -- that we ALL sin and fall short of the glory of the God -- and immediately the argument is launched that I'm excusing sin in others (and in leadership) because of my own. "Should we continue in sin that grace may abound? GOD FORBID!" But I'm busy enough with the sin in my own life that I don't see that I have the right, privilege, or responsibility to point at the sin of others. You may all disagree with me, however many of you there are, and with all due respect no one needs to repost that because it's been hashed and rehashed so many times. But if our church is EVER going to heal, these constant attacks and judgmental comments have to be toned down, in my opinion. We've said more than once that the world is watching how we speak, how we treat each other. That is even more true now than ever before with all the media attention the situation at Bellevue is commanding, not just here locally, but nationally and probably internationally, as well. I believe I saw a post from someone in Thailand this morning. (And no, we don't need to revisit whose fault it is that we are here in the public eye for all to see --that's been talked to death, as well.) But the world is watching, and especially those who enjoy seeing hypocrisy in the church and use it to excuse their refusal to come to Christ. In John 14, Jesus said, "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have LOVE one for another."
Is this what we are showing to the world that's watching us? Many have said that it is not. Does that break anyone else's heart?
I'm not trying to judge, really I'm not. Just trying to understand all of this myself.
Mark,
ReplyDeleteyou're probably right..there may be more to this than we know.
allofgrace,
ReplyDeleteYour an idiot. I have said nothing about P.W. othen than he is sick. But God shows grace and mercy even to a child molestor. Thats hard to get your little bitty mind around I guess.
faithnhope said...
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but I haven't found anything that suggests Dr. Rogers asked Dr. Gaines to resign. If it's on another blog, please point me there. Until I see it, I'll have to assume that anyone who claims it happened is lying.
swordoftruth,
Hatred is an ugly thing.
8:37 PM, December 22, 2006
This statement has been used in various forms whenever something new breaks out on the blog, then after the dust settles it turns out that new scandal(lie,gossip,rummor)turns out to be true.
Sword has a great batting average.
Don't confuse truthful statements and facts as hatred,just because the truth hurts.
You can make this about the music all you want but it shows you don't want to see the real issues.
ReplyDeleteWhy do we need to use screennames? Have you heard what has happened to the ones who have revealed themselves at the hands of SG and his cronies?
mjm,
ReplyDeleteactually i've always respected you, though we've disagreed on some things...we're all aware we're sinners..I stand with the apostle Paul and say i'm cheif among sinners...but that's the point...all of us have to keep one another accountable...in fighter pilot language..we have to watch each other's "6".
Oh please. Why fear anything. Do you not have faith that God will protect you.
ReplyDeleteAOG, I get that.
ReplyDeleteAnd I respect you, as well, and love you with the love of the Lord.
They are all liars,
ReplyDeleteYour an idiot.
overflowinggrace,
thank you.
Yes, of course I know God will protect me. But God also gave me common sense and I have a family to protect.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a fence at my house. It would be easier to SG to get onto my property with 4 men.
overflowinggrace,
ReplyDeletewatching each other's "6" is about our blind spots...where sin creeps in..we all have them...your "6" is where you can't see..in the air that's behind you.
sword said...
ReplyDeleteHow many more Pedophiles are roaming the halls of Bellevue?
How many deacons are into pornography?
How many liars serve on the board and in the committees and as deacons and staff members?
How many adulterers are in leadership positions at Bellevue?
How many men in leadership are abusing their wives?
How many women staffers are in an affair?
How many leaders at Bellevue are cheating on their taxes?
How many Bellevue ministers are hiding their own secret sins?
Bellevue needs true revival.
REPLY-Do you have any facts or info on these issues?? If not, why did you post this list? It is 100% gossip and the list will only bring false doubts and harm for no reason. Very very harmful. why?? facts/info?
I do agree with sword that Bellevue needs true revival.
ReplyDeleteDr. Rogers did not ask Dr. Gaines to resign.
ReplyDeleteCan someone ask Mrs. Rogers to confirm that or deny it?
ReplyDelete4545,
ReplyDeleteI don't know whether he did or not...it really doesn't matter, nor is it relevant to the current situation.
And you know this how?
ReplyDeleteI can understand it if you don't believe Rogers asked SG to resign. But you seem to know that he didn't.
trucker,
ReplyDeleteswordoftruth asked these questions:
How many deacons are into pornography?
How many liars serve on the board and in the committees and as deacons and staff members?
How many adulterers are in leadership positions at Bellevue?
How many men in leadership are abusing their wives?
How many women staffers are in an affair?
How many leaders at Bellevue are cheating on their taxes?
How many Bellevue ministers are hiding their own secret sins?
In the sake of fairness, let me ask you the following:
Are you into pornograpy?
Are you a liar?
Are you an adulter?
Do you abuse your wife? How often?
Is your wife having an affair?
Do you cheat on your taxes?
Does it bother you that a nameless coward with a godly name like faithnhope would confront you with hateful questions like this?
Brother, it eats me alive!!!!
Housewife: I can't say that it wouldn't fit the mold if the pastor primed Mr. Lorance to make the motion but I don't know that for sure. I do know that the standing o's are staged. I was one of the deacons who walked out of the meeting so there's not much I can add. I should have said the vote was near unaminous from the ones who remained. If you read the "pledge" carefully you will see that it says something to the effect of all the deacons "present" .....
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I heard from a source that I consider very reliable, that the BF teachers were going to be asked to sign a similar pledge. Has anyone else heard this?
So many seem to be taking things at face value and then VICIOUSLY attack brothers and sisters in Christ based on limited information.
ReplyDeleteIt bears repeating, for all we know there is a TON more that we don't know.
I think if we would all take a deep breathe and ask if what we are about to post honors our Lord, this board would look very different. (This is not directed to every poster - some of you do seem to be doing this and for that, thank you!)
eleos,
ReplyDeleteNo, but i do know that they have been told at certain times to address in BF the things leadership has wanted said. such as..."touch not mine annointed"
I am amazed that many on this blog think that Dr. Rogers and the previous leadership were perfect and never made mistakes. They made MANY mistakes. One big difference, is people would never question Dr. Rogers. I loved Dr. Rogers as much or more than anyone, but this is just the case. Many worshiped him in a way. If you think all the staff and past leadership were perfect and did not make mistakes and big nistakes along the way, you are very very wrong.
ReplyDeleteone member,
ReplyDeleteI agree..I'm tired of Dr. Rogers being dragged into this mess myself..especially since he can't speak to it.
4545,
ReplyDeleteI would agree with that..no one is perfect. But Dr. Rogers had a track record of dealing with these kind of issues quickly. I would also agree that some probably came close to worshipping him...just as some are coming very close to worshipping Dr. Gaines.
I have stood and applauded for Bro. Steve many times. No one has ever asked me to do so, nor has anyone ever thanked me or encouraged me to continue. In fact, I believe I have been the first to applaud on more than one occasion. So not all the applause is "staged." Some of it is genuine, or at least mine is.
ReplyDeleteStaged standing o's?? Please, spare us.
ReplyDeletestaged or not i think it's getting to the point of being ridiculous
ReplyDeleteI don't. Were they ridiculous for Dr. Rogers?
ReplyDeleteI don't think people are claiming that Dr. Rogers was perfect or sinless. If they are, they need to repent before the Lord for their idolatry. I think the distinction is the evidence of Dr. Roger's integrity vs. the evidence of SG's. Just my observation...
ReplyDelete4545,
ReplyDeleteyes...everytime someone walks into a room?...who do we worship..man or God?
There's a difference between not being perfect and making some mistakes and harboring a pedophile, breaking the law, intimidating, etc.
ReplyDeleteI can't wait to stand this Sunday. I got a call from one of the ministers. They said to stand when Brother Steve takes the podium. Mabey you guys can protest by sitting. It's funny ...I have never seen many people sitting. Hmmm!!!
ReplyDeleteHouswife,
ReplyDeleteHow many pounds overweight are you?
I'm guessing at least 75lbs!
No one admired or respected Dr. Rogers more than I did..and I honor his memory and his ministry...but I kept my seat many times because I thought it was overboard.
ReplyDeleteIt is not like we did that before all the attacks on Dr Gaines. You act like we have done it every Sunday for the last year.
ReplyDeleteI got a call from one of the ministers. They said to stand when Brother Steve takes the podium.
ReplyDelete...but it's not staged.
overflowinggrace said...
ReplyDeleteI can't wait to stand this Sunday. I got a call from one of the ministers. They said to stand when Brother Steve takes the podium. Mabey you guys can protest by sitting. It's funny ...I have never seen many people sitting. Hmmm!!!
4545,
No staged standing o's ?...something's not right.
Housewife,
ReplyDeleteIt's a joke. No minister called me.
MJM
ReplyDeleteThank you for your response.I really want you to understand that I'm not attacking you. I honestly don't understand your logic.
I would not want my children to tell me that I should't punish them for whatever family rule they may have broken because I have sin in my life.
When you make a statement likeBut I'm busy enough with the sin in my own life that I don't see that I have the right, privilege, or responsibility to point at the sin of others.
you are telling all of us that we have no right to be upset with for example, the pastor hiding a child molester from the church.I can tell you as a parent that I feel betrayed by the pastors actions concerning Paul W. and thatthe pastor put my children in danger.He was wrong and we have a duty as parents to point it out in order to protect out children.I also condem abortion ,should I remain silent about it because I have sin in my life.
The news media became involved with Bellevue because of Steve Gaines hiding a child molester.This is news. What do think of the Catholic church as it hides its molesting ministers from their sheep?Should it be exposed for all to see ?I say yes.
If we should be silent to the sins of others becouse we sin, then how would we exercise Mat18.
Also why does the Lord caution some not take communion while allowing others to.
To be honest with you I don't believe that the truth needs balence it stands on its own.
But really I can't wait. Because I know it makes you guys cringe and burn with hatred for us ignorant Team Gaines members.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteyou guys could do the wave actually...it still won't change anything..might boost his ego some more.
ReplyDeleteoverflowinggrace said...
ReplyDeleteHouswife,
How many pounds overweight are you?
I'm guessing at least 75lbs!
Such class. I guess you have just refuted all of SG's "mistakes of the heart" with this one.
BTW, of course I'm more than 75 lbs. I'm not annorexic. =)
Do you know that Mrs. Williams knew? Or are you assuming she knew?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteez,
ReplyDeletethat's a good word. I've missed you coming by my blog and commenting.
According to what PW told Steve, the family resolved it 17 years ago. How could she not have known.
ReplyDeleteIf Brother Steve has broken any laws, several Williams family members and others that have known have done the same. Their silence for 17 years could have caused many more issues and much more harm. Are you going to hold them accountable in the same way?
ReplyDeleteSure Dave...see ya on sunday. I'll be the one standing!!!!
ReplyDelete4545,
ReplyDeleteYOu may be right about that...there may be more to be held accountable.
overflowinggrace said...
ReplyDeleteI said how much overweight. Not how much do you weigh. If i'm guessing your weight, I would go for about 225.
Liberal tactics to avoid the issue. Attack the person, not the issue because they can't deal with the issue.
I could be 500 lbs and it wouldn't change that SG should resign.
But again, nice try.
overflowinggrace, 4545,
ReplyDeletealthough my father abused my sister and my mother didn't know about it for years..neither did I until a few years ago.
Liberal tactics...Look at all the personal attacks you have made toward SG.
ReplyDeleteallofgrace,
ReplyDeleteAre you divorced?
overflowinggrace said...
ReplyDeleteallofgrace,
Your an idiot.
Ad hominems are rarely wise and I hope you will think twice before employing one again on this blog. What an unfortunate sentence to improperly substitute the possessive pronoun your for the contraction you're. I am embarrassed for you.
It's quite amazing how the bitter clap and stamp with glee over the tribulations of the object of their hate.
ReplyDeleteall of grace
ReplyDeleteYou just go right ahead and stand up and hoop and holler for a man who has harbored a child molestor.
You and the others will look like fools.
I think we should start serving kool aid at communion. That would be more fitting.
Have I said anything about his weight? No. The issues we have brought up are real issues, not personal attacks. Saying SG should resign for harboring a pedophile is not a personal attack. It's the truth. It's a consequence!
ReplyDeleteAgain, you don't want to deal with the real issue. If you did, you could see at least that much!!!
I also want to wait and get ALL the facts about what PW actually told Dr. Gaines. I hope it all comes out.
ReplyDeleteoverflowinggrace,
ReplyDeleteI don't know what that has to do with anything but yes I'm divorced...widowed actually since I never remarried.
fed up at bbc,
ReplyDeletewho said i was standing up and hooping and hollering...i think you've mistaken me for someone else.
westtn,
ReplyDeleteYou will find many mis-types on this blog (both sides). I'll make far greater mistakes than that before the week is over. BTW..was right about the idiot part?
divorced or widowed?
ReplyDelete