tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-365645142024-03-13T12:13:33.728-05:00New BBC Open Forum"For the love of money is the root of all evil." (1 Tim. 6:10a) Ergo... follow the money.New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comBlogger237125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-62213733327972905162020-05-01T01:01:00.003-05:002020-05-04T19:31:24.188-05:00Is this what everyone is looking for?<br />
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<a href="https://baptistaccountability.org/list/eddie-struble">Baptist Accountability: Eddie Struble</a><br />
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<a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2020/04/another-victim-of-former-southern.html">Another victim of former Southern Baptist music minister Eddie Struble comes forward</a><br />
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<a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2018/08/southwestern-baptist-theological.html">Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary professor expresses concern that other kids are at risk for sexual abuse: Eddie Struble update</a><br />
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<a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2014/09/former-second-baptist-church-of-houston.html">Former Second Baptist Church of Houston minister accused of child sex abuse: more information and more questions</a><br />
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<a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2014/05/denying-and-enabling-child-sex-abuse.html">Denying and Enabling Child Sex Abuse</a><br />
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<a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2014/01/southern-baptists-erlc-and-devil.html">Southern Baptists, the ERLC and the "devil-haunted universe"</a><br />
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<a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2011/10/whats-at-stake-protecting-and.html">What's at Stake: protecting and preserving the innocence of children</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.scribd.com/document/381351269/Eddie-Struble-police-report">Houston Police Department Report</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.scribd.com/document/87988694/Eddie-Struble-Spring-Valley-police-report-page-1">Spring Valley Police Department Report - Page 1</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.scribd.com/document/88018095/Eddie-Struble-police-report-page-2">Spring Valley Police Department Report - Page 2</a><br />
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<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/eddiestruble">Twitter Hashtag #eddiestruble</a>
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<span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: "georgia" , serif;">If you were a victim of anyone associated with a church, school, or other organization, please contact the authorities! Do not contact a pastor, a church, school administrator, or anyone but the police in the applicable jurisdiction. If you need help finding the appropriate agency to notify, please contact a member of</span><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: "georgia" , serif;"> </span><a href="http://www.snapnetwork.org/" style="color: #cc6600; font-family: georgia, serif;">S.N.A.P.</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: "georgia" , serif;"> </span><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: "georgia" , serif;">and they will help you.</span>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-51544102415804283802014-02-21T00:49:00.000-06:002014-02-21T06:42:57.937-06:00Grooming Young Cult Members<br />
This is a page from a children's coloring book compiled by Elevation Church in Charlotte, NC, pastored by the inexplicably charismatic Steven Furtick. At first I thought this must... yes, <i>had</i> to be... a joke, but I quickly learned it's real.<br />
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<a href="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1996/01/15/207161">What is charisma</a>?<br />
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<i>To most people, it's the inscrutable X factor--a mystical, almost magical career booster. Not many people have charisma. But when you talk to those who do, you discover that it isn't such a mystery after all. Yes, it's charm and personal magnetism, but -- more important -- it's the remarkable ability to get others to endorse your vision and promote it passionately. Charisma makes you a leader.</i><br />
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If that's the mark of a leader, of someone with that uncanny ability, then I'm at a loss to explain people like Furtick, Perry Noble, Ed Young, and yes, Steve Gaines. Because I don't find any of these men (or the dozens like them) charming or possessing a shred of personal magnetism. Quite the contrary, I find their narcissism and ham-fisted bullying a total turnoff. But assuming, and this must be true because they have hundreds, even thousands, of staunch defenders, that <i>someone</i> out there must view them as possessing that magic thing called "charisma," then the question arises, <i>why</i> do some people view these men as "charismatic" and blindly and enthusiastically follow them while others, myself included, see them for the scary cult leaders they are? What turns seemingly discerning people into rabid cheerleaders for the self-appointed man-o-gawd and his "vision"?<br />
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<i>Charisma is a tricky thing. Jack Kennedy oozed it -- but so did Hitler and Charles Manson. Con artists, charlatans, and megalomaniacs can make it their instrument as effectively as the best CEOs, entertainers, and presidents. Used wisely, it's a blessing. Indulged, it can be a curse. Charismatic visionaries lead people ahead -- and sometimes astray. They can be impetuous, unpredictable, and exasperating to work for....</i><br />
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Maybe that explains it. Like any "gift," it can be used for good or... dare I say... evil. But why do so many people seem blind to it? Is it because there's a certain amount of truth mixed in with the leader's "vision"? When preachers exclaim, "It's in da book!" who's going to argue with that? Is it because a lot of people don't study their bibles and think for themselves, so they can be easily manipulated?<br />
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A popular and frightening trend in churches today, especially the megachurch variety, is "vision-casting" by the "senior" pastor and the demand by the man-o-gawd and his minions that the sheeple pledge loyalty to the pastor and his "vision." One of the red-flag words they use is "unity." One of Steve Gaines' favorite themes which I've heard him repeat in dozens of sermons is the proof-text of <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4%3A3&version=NASB">Ephesians 4:3</a>... "to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." And yet, he leaves out <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+4%3A2&version=NASB">verse 2</a>... "with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love."<br />
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Is that what we see here?<br />
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The following is an excerpt from the transcript of a Steve Gaines sermon from several years ago. See if you can find any sign of humility, gentleness, patience, tolerance, or love in his words.<br />
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<i>Bellevue Baptist Church needs proactive peacemakers... to come against any... troublemaker... and I'm telling you this. This may sound a little too clear cut for you, but I'm telling you... you're on one side or the other in any church you're in, whether you go to Bellevue or not. You are either a peacemaker, or you are a troublemaker. There is no middle ground. Peacemakers support the church's leadership... as long as it's scriptural. Peacemakers squelch gossip. They don't listen to it, and they sure don't share it. Peacemakers discourage division. What is division? Two visions. Peacemakers... rebuke troublemakers. Peacemakers comfort and reassure troubled church members. They diligently preserve the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace. And all of us as members at Bellevue need... to be... such peacemakers. We cannot ever afford to allow Satan to divide us even just a little bit. <b>WE CANNOT ALLOW TROUBLEMAKERS TO BE ALIVE AND WELL IN THIS FELLOWSHIP</b>... in this church... to win the day! We must diligently be proactive and aggressively... be... peacemakers. That's the call for unity.</i><br />
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Steve Gaines and Steven Furtick are but two examples, albeit quite different examples, of what has been coined "<a href="http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/dr-james-emery-white/the-cult-of-personality.html">the cult of personality</a>." This is the situation where a man... or at least what a man says... becomes the focus of a church. Not all these characteristics apply to either of these men, but enough of them do that it should give pause to thinking Christians. How many of these do you recognize in these and other "senior" pastors you know?<br />
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<i>The demand for special treatment, special honor, special recognition. In other words, there is an active cultivation of being treated differently than others.</i><br />
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"Spiritually-ordained authority," anyone?<br />
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<i>No one is allowed to question the leader without retribution. There is a “thin skin” evident toward any and all critics, who are often written off as “haters” or simply those who are envious. There is a bubble that prevents constructive criticism.</i><br />
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"Troublemakers in the church"?<br />
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<a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/03/crybaby-pastors-part-3-steven-furtick.html">Hey haters</a>!<br />
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<i>There is no sense of team leadership, team teaching or team mentality. There is a single person or leader, and then there are implementers. No one is to question the leader’s vision. It is seen as God-given, sacrosanct, and thus anything the leader says or does in pursuit of that vision is never to be questioned.</i><br />
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"Our pastor's vision... "?<br />
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<a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2013/04/hey-haters-analysis-of-steven-furticks.html">Sometimes they even invoke the law</a> to keep the faithful loyal.<br />
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And whatever you do, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/12/chandler-and-noble-in-elephant-room.html">don't question the man-o-gawd</a>!<br />
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<i>The person travels in an entourage, often with personal security, and is seldom accessible.</i><br />
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And, I would add, the person has a <a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v60553787fANZJ9pN">heightened sense of insecurity and paranoia</a>.<br />
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Invoking the name of "Jesus" and <i>saying</i> that it's all about Him doesn't fool everyone into believing that's so.<br />
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In fact, with Elevation Church and their <a href="http://elevationchurch.org/the-code">Code</a> there's not much mention of Jesus or the gospel. The central figure seems to be "Pastor Steven."<br />
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Nowhere is this more evident than in this <a href="http://elevationworship.com/leadership/our-code-united-under-the-visionary">2010 blog post</a> in which the staff is given their marching orders.<br />
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<i>We believe that God’s given Pastor Steven the vision of where he wants to take Elevation’s ministry. And the Lord’s called us all here to use our gifts and strengths corporately as a way of seeing that vision come to life.</i><br />
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Someone once asked (in response to one of Miss Higgy's flowery prayer letters) what is this thing called a vision? S/he then proceeded to define it.<br />
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Miss Higgy: "Pray for the commitment to the vision cast before us from the Lord through our pastor in sharing the love of Jesus with Memphis and all the surrounding areas in which we live."<br />
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Comment:<br />
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<i>Where has the Lord Jesus ever presented this doctrine? I mean, it's like Jesus is standing somewhere with a bow and arrow and attached to the arrow is this thing called a vision. Then Jesus releases the arrow and it zings through "our" Pastor and lands on the ground before us. As it lands we bow to it as a sacred "message from God". Do what?</i><br />
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Do what, indeed!<br />
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To indoctrinate susceptible adults in this "cult" mindset is one thing, but to do it to children is criminal. Wrap it up in as many proof-texts from the bible as you want. It's still spiritual abuse, and it's time for people to wake up and see it for what it is. It's this attitude of "do not question your spiritual authority figures" that is the root cause of much of the spiritual and sexual abuse in churches that we read about on a daily basis today. For pete's sake, wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late.New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com27tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-32261183964075552082014-02-13T20:38:00.002-06:002014-02-16T23:37:01.247-06:00An acquaintance of a friend of a lady told me...<br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xtd122wRcvw/Uv2Ej2yePLI/AAAAAAAABWI/d_f7ZEWp2io/s1600/Money+Barn+2.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xtd122wRcvw/Uv2Ej2yePLI/AAAAAAAABWI/d_f7ZEWp2io/s320/Money+Barn+2.JPG" /></a></div>
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While I don't listen to him very often anymore, every time I've heard Steve Gaines speak in recent years he's at least mentioned tithing and has devoted more than a few entire sermons to the subject. He seems obsessed with this one Old Testament law that, as many before me have noted and a contextual reading of Malachi 3 (the perennial proof text) reveals, was not in the form of money but crops brought to the storehouse (literally like a barn) to support the Levitical priests who were not allowed to own property and to help care for the poor and widows. There were two annual tithes and a third tithe every three years, thus making the total tithe 23 1/3%, but preachers today would have a much more difficult time convincing people to fork over <i>that</i> much of their income, so they have settled for the tithe (singular) with frequent appeals for "offerings" over and above the obligatory undesignated 10%. Plus it's easy to calculate your bill. Just take your gross income, move the decimal point to the left one position, and write a check to said preacher's 501(c)(3) for that amount.<br />
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Every year Bellevue has "Prove the Tithe" Sunday, the day where people are encouraged to tithe one week's income. Of course, that describes every Sunday at Bellevue now, but when it began it was a special Sunday dedicated to tithing. Every year each household receives a robo call from "Brother" Steve the Saturday evening before. I can almost quote one of these calls verbatim now. In fact, this was my best guess before I heard the recording:<br />
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<i>Hi, this is Brother Steve inviting you to join us at Bellevue this Sunday. This week is "Prove the Tithe" Sunday at Bellevue, and even if you don't regularly tithe, I want to encourage you for just this week to tithe 10% of one week's income in an undesignated fashion to our church. In Malachi 3, God says, "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house." The bible says we are to trust God in ALL things, and that includes our finances. For one week we want to see how God will bless Bellevue if everyone gives just 10% of their income. Won't you pray and ask God what He would have you to give? We have Life Group classes for all ages and encourage you to come be a part of a small group where you can get plugged in. You may bring your tithes and offerings to your Life Group, give during any of our worship services which begin at 9:20 a.m. and 11:00 a.m., or, as Donna and I prefer to do, you may give online any time by going to bellevue.org. God says, "Test Me now in this if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows." Won't you put God to the test and see how much He will bless you? Donna and I look forward to seeing you tomorrow morning.</i><br />
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This was the actual script this year:<br />
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<i>Hello. This is Pastor Steve Gaines. I'm calling to remind you that tomorrow, February 2nd, is "Prove the Tithe" Sunday. We're asking every member of Bellevue, whether you tithe or not, to bring an offering equal to 10% of your weekly income. Malachi 3:10 says, "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in God's house, and test Me now in this," says the Lord of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing for you until it overflows." I really believe that 2014 will be a year [of]</i> <i>increase in your life and Bellevue and that God will pour out his blessings on all of us. It is such a joy to be your pastor. I sure look forward to seeing you tomorrow.</i><br />
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So am I to understand that Bellevue Baptist Church at 2000 Appling Road in Cordova, Tennessee is the "storehouse" and "God's house" and that they need food? And that if we "test God" and bring (or send or go online and give) <i>money</i> to the "storehouse" that miraculously the "windows of heaven" will open, and we'll be "blessed until it overflows"?<br />
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I know plenty of people who have been blessed both financially and in life ("blessing" does not always equate with "money") without giving money to a 501(c)(3) where it will be spent on exorbitant salaries and building programs. Those with the means often give to equally important, I would argue more important, causes than a for-profit business disguised as a church. I also know people who have let bills go unpaid so they could give to a church or TV preacher, and I know people who have dug into their savings to give to their church. I know because I used to be one of those people. No, I've never given to a TV preacher, but my parents and grandparents tithed to the Baptist church, and it was drilled into me from an early age. It was so ingrained I never questioned it. Now I'm embarrassed to admit that after giving to the church and paying the bills (yes, always cheerfully and in that order, Steve), we were having to dig into our savings to make ends meet, but I thought this was what God expected us to do.<br />
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And then one day I woke up and realized we were simply funding the lifestyles of the rich and wannabe famous. Don't tell me we were living above our means. We live a very modest lifestyle, never eat out (unless you count McDonald's once a month or so) or go to the movies, drive an 11-year-old car, and I wouldn't know what a vacation is as we've never taken one, but money just goes so far. Of course, this is something Steve and Donna Gaines will never have to worry about since the handful of men at Bellevue who make these decisions behind closed doors were willing to pay them what has been reported to be as much as half a million a year in salary and benefits. It wouldn't surprise me to learn it's even more than that. Something is wrong with this picture.<br />
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If you truly believe in "storehouse tithing," that's your privilege, but if you have even a moderate amount of intelligence and don't unquestioningly believe everything you've always been taught, you need to ask yourself if the money you give is going to help advance the gospel because when "administrative" costs eat up a large portion of a 501(c)(3)'s budget, they're really no longer a non-profit, and the main focus is no longer, cannot <i>possibly</i> be, the advancement of the gospel. You also need to question why we should continue to observe the Old Testament law of tithing while we reject most of the others. People are profiting, some of them very handsomely, all the while beating and berating the rest of us to give, give, and give some more. Oh, and to never question how they use the money because, after all, it's not <i>your</i> money or <i>my</i> money, it's "God's" money. I suppose with their direct lines to God that we ordinary pew-warmers don't have access to, preachers just <i>know</i> how "God" wants "His money" to be used. And hey, if it's to build another shrine to the man-o-gawd or a <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/12/wonderful-first-baptist-dallas.html">big shiny fountain</a> as "an architectural invitation to the gospel of Jesus Christ" (I feel sacrilegious even writing that, but I suppose churches have been doing the same thing in one form or another for years), then who are you and I to ask questions? We should hang our heads in shame for daring to think!<br />
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Preachers like <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/search?q=steve+gaines">Steve Gaines</a>, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2014/01/ronnie-floyd-tells-his-non-tithing.html">Ronnie Floyd</a>, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/10/ed-young-breaks-new-tithing-ground.html">Ed Young</a>, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2014/02/perry-noble-to-non-tithers-dont-be-like.html">Perry Noble</a>, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2013/10/robert-morris-lays-down-law-non-tithers.html">Robert Morris</a>, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2012/11/its-not-your-money-says-steven-furtick.html">Steven Furtick</a>, <a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v53397161HgdZbSAe">Charles Stanley</a>, the late <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/01/adrian-rogers-on-tithe.html">Adrian Rogers</a>, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/10/mac-brunson-fbc-jax-people-are-gripped.html">Mac Brunson</a>, and a host of other lesser known preachers claim you cannot be "right" with God, you will not be blessed, and you might not even be saved if you don't fork over 10% of your gross income, in an undesignated fashion, to their 501(c)(3). Can someone tell me where that is in the bible? Because I've read the bible through several times, and I've never read that. It's interesting how most of these men are CEOs of large "non-profit" organizations in addition to being "senior" pastors of their own churches. Not only do they receive large compensation packages from their churches, most receive nice 6-figure salaries from their non-profits. (The latter numbers are <a href="http://www.guidestar.org/">public record</a>.)<br />
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In the 11:00 Sunday morning service at Bellevue we saw a blatant illustration of the lengths to which these men-o-gawd will go when Steve Gaines prodded his wife, Donna, into standing up and telling a story about an acquaintance whose friend had been "sharing" (one of my red-flag trigger words) with a lady about the lady's reluctance to tithe because she didn't think she'd have enough money left to pay her mortgage but how when she finally mustered up the "strength and courage" to tithe (using Bellevue's convenient online giving option), the very next day when she called her mortgage company to beg for an extension or deferred payment plan, an unexpected miracle happened. Watch the video, and then let's "unpack" (red flag!) this little story.<br />
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Note how he called Donna to tell the story and acted like it was a spontaneous thing and a big surprise to Donna who had kicked off her shoes. Does anyone <i>not</i> believe this was planned? I guess he thought people would come closer to believing some giddy woman who couldn't wait to tell Donna about "God" blessing her friend <i>after</i> the friend forked over 10% to the "storehouse." A friend of a woman Donna doesn't know from Adam. How this anonymous woman was convicted for several days and finally submitted and went online (bonus points for shameless plug for "online giving") and tithed, and voila! "God" turned on the showers of blessing only then <i>because she obeyed</i>.<br />
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Imagine having to call your mortgage company and ask for a reduced/extended payment plan because, well, you <i>had</i> the money, but you gave it to your church. Not that you had to pay bills or taxes or buy prescription medication or feed your family, but rather you voluntarily gave it to a 501(c)(3). Somehow I doubt she included that part of the story when she spoke with the representative.<br />
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Her mortgage had allegedly (I think this whole story is "alleged") been sold to another company, and it just so happened that her mortgage had been "flagged" (can I get an amen?) to get a lower interest rate. Now don't you think she would have been notified of this ahead of time so she would at least know where to send her payments? Having been through the refi process myself a couple of times and having had our mortgages sold 3 or 4 times over the years, I know mortgage companies and banks don't operate like this. If they sell your mortgage they notify you well in advance. They may offer you a lower rate, but you have to formally apply, be approved, and sign a boat load of paperwork to get it done, a process that takes weeks, sometimes months, to complete.<br />
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So what happened when this lady tithed? Her monthly payment, which needed to be reduced from $1400+ to $1000 for her to be able to make her payment after giving 10% to Steve, was... wait for it... reduced to $1069! Hmmm... I guess "God" wasn't that impressed because "He" didn't reduce it to the needed $1000. She's still going to have to come up with an extra $69 a month, but if she continues to tithe I'm sure she'll get a $69 a month raise to cover it. That is, if she doesn't tithe her way into bankruptcy or foreclosure.<br />
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As long as you're making your payments on time mortgage companies and banks do not do things like this, actually <i>cannot</i> legally do things like this, without you being aware of it and signing off on it FIRST. With the new HAMP and HARP programs, more people may qualify for refinancing, and by law people who were a certain number of payments delinquent on their mortgages had to be notified that they may be eligible to refinance (HAMP), and people who are not behind and aren't under water on their loans who want to refinance may be eligible through the HARP program, BUT... and this is important... there is an application and approval process you must go through. You don't just call up your mortgage company one day and get them to immediately lower your interest rate or monthly payment. They may tell you a lower rate is available, but the approval process takes at least a few days to a month or more. So either Donna is flat out... embellishing, misunderstood the circumstances, or she left out a lot of the story. Perhaps the woman had already applied to refinance and just happened to have already been approved when she called the next day. That I could believe, but the whole "flagged" thing and not knowing her mortgage had been sold (the surprise element) don't wash. Not at all.<br />
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<a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2014/02/steve-and-donna-gaines-give-their.html">FBC Jax Watchdog</a> has also written an article about this story. <br />
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An anonymous commenter (so I can't give credit) analyzed it well:<br />
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<i>... so the basic logic here is, this woman tithed, so God "rewarded" her by allowing her monthly mortgage payment to be $400 less per month. Assuming (as is almost certainly the case) that this was simply a mortgage restructure where the monthly payment is lowered but the term is extended, then that means she actually will pay more over the life of the mortgage as a result of the restructure.<br />
<br />
I just have to ask what this woman's annual wages are. If she qualified for a mortgage that has a monthly payment of $1,000-$1,500 a month, she likely makes at least $40,000-$50,000 a year, or $3,333 to $4,167 per month. Do you see where I'm going with this? A tithe on that would be $333 to $417. Instead of forking it over to Bellevue, she could have paid that tithe money to the mortgage company to take care of that "400 less per month" that she said she needed her monthly payment to be.<br />
<br />
Lady, I hate to break this to you, but God really screwed you over here.</i><br />
<br />
An observant commenter named Mark says:<br />
<br />
<i>It's funny, all the stories that I ever hear preachers give about the blessings of tithing really don't come across as blessings. It's mostly zero sum gains. Someone gives their tithe to the church then fall behind in their finances and miraculously at the last minute they get "blessed" with money in the exact amount that they were behind.<br />
<br />
That's blessing? Certainly doesn't sound like the floodgates of heaven are opened up.</i><br />
<br />
Another anonymous commenter summed it up in two short sentences:<br />
<br />
<i>The CEO needs to increase revenue. It really is as simple as that.</i>
<br />
<br />
Yes. Yes, it really <i>is</i> as simple as that. The money is drying up, and Baby Doll needs a new pair of shoes!<br />
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<a href="http://www.abpnews.com/ministry/people/item/28329-peeping-preacher-s-prison-sentence-stands">Judge Upholds Original Sentence and Adds 10 Years Treatment and Monitoring</a>.
Kudos to Judge Chatham for considering the victims.
New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-57016147417256697902014-01-11T22:50:00.001-06:002014-08-20T22:32:40.810-05:00If you were a victim or have any information...<div>
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<br />
... please contact the authorities! Do not contact a pastor, a church, or anyone but the police in the applicable jurisdiction. If you need help finding the appropriate agency to notify, please contact a member of <a href="http://www.snapnetwork.org/">S.N.A.P.</a> and they will help you.<br />
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Attention Bellevue members. You need to read this as it mentions one of <i>your</i> former fair-haired boys:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2014/01/southern-baptists-erlc-and-devil.html">Southern Baptists, the ERLC and the "devil-haunted universe"</a><br />
<br />
Here Amy Smith does a great job of illustrating the cognitive dissonance between the problem of clergy sex abuse in the SBC and the continuing policy of the SBC leadership ignoring it or at best giving passing lip-service to it while crowing about "apply(ing) the gospel of the kingdom to the major cultural issues of our day."<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.christianpost.com/news/newly-formed-sbc-ethics-religious-liberty-commission-initiative-is-about-ministering-in-the-midst-of-a-devil-haunted-universe-112292">This</a> is the stated purpose of the SBC's recently-formed "ERLC Leadership Network" in the words of Russell Moore. I still laugh every time I read this.<br />
<br />
<i>The ERLC Leadership Network is about ministering in the midst of a devil-haunted universe," ERLC President Russell D. Moore said. "As we come alongside one another, we'll talk about crucial ethical issues confronting churches and how we can engage the culture with a Gospel-focus. We'll think through issues that aren't yet confronting churches, but will, and how we can best go through the difficulties of life and local church ministry with a joyful warrior kingdom expectancy-marching toward Zion on the triumphant side of history.</i><br />
<br />
Who talks like that?! Such flowery language to describe a do-nothing bunch of self-righteous, back-slapping good old boys! (<a href="http://erlc.com/network/faqs">No women are allowed on the council</a>.)<br />
<br />
As Amy Smith observed...<br />
<br />
<i>How about start with the crucial issues already confronting churches? What about the "devil-haunted universe" of child sex crimes committed by their own Baptist ministers? Or are we really looking at a case of the ERLC picking and choosing "crucial ethical issues" based on selective moral outrage? I can't think of any issue more pressing and damaging to churches and kids within churches today than the ravaging of souls by child sex offenders.</i><br />
<br />
Why, yes. Yes, they <i>are</i> picking and choosing. Because we all know that the "crucial ethical issues" of gays and women in leadership positions and wives who refuse to "respect" and "submit to their husbands in all things" are at the root of all of the church's problems.<br />
<br />
I'm reminded of quotes from <a href="http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whatever-happened-to-bill-gothard">Bill Gothard</a> (whose seminars Bellevue bused members to during the '80s and whose books and "principles" Adrian Rogers endorsed), or more recently, members of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_%28Christian_organization%29">The Fellowship</a>, aka "The Family," as documented in Jeff Sharlet's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/The-Family-Secret-Fundamentalism-American/dp/0060560053"><i>The Family</i></a> and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Street-Fundamentalist-Threat-American-Democracy/dp/B005M4AU0Y"><i>C Street</i></a>. While I don't always agree with Mr. Sharlet's political views, he exposes (with copious footnotes and personal accounts from living among them) the influence "fundamentalists" have had on the world. The "conservative resurgence" is but a microcosm of this much larger organization whose "face" is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Prayer_Breakfast">National Prayer Breakfast</a>, the purpose of which is not to focus on God and prayer (surprise!) but "to be a forum for the political, social, and business elite to assemble and build relationships."<br />
<br />
"The ERLC helps me think biblically and in Gospel-responsible ways about the issues confronting our people every single day," said [J.D.] Greear. "To not speak and think about these issues would be doing our people a great disservice. Russell Moore has assembled an excellent team to both represent us well, and help us lead our people well. The ERLC is a gift to our church and to the larger body of Christ."<br />
<br />
Well, J.D., you and your buddies <i>are</i> doing your people a great disservice! Y'all can form all the good-old-boy committees you want, but until you put actions behind your flowery language, you're only making noise while victims continue to suffer in silence. It's time to man up, boys!New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-40847867347203495032013-09-03T08:01:00.001-05:002014-08-20T22:34:53.543-05:00Suffer little children... but not in OUR church!<br />
This week has provided a lesson in contrasts. To begin, let me make it clear I'm no fan of Mark Driscoll. Google the terms "Mark Driscoll" and "bully" or "sex" if you're not already familiar with the man. <a href="http://thewartburgwatch.com/category/mark-driscoll">The Wartburg Watch</a> is but one blog that has published several telling articles about Driscoll.<br />
<br />
Assuming you're all up to date on Driscoll and we're on the same page now, I trust it's apparent why I was surprised when someone sent me this statement that Driscoll tweeted Sunday. It doesn't seem to fit his "beastly" persona.<br />
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Now for the contrast...<br />
<br />
Below is an excerpt from a comment on a previous thread by "Super Sleuth" which encapsulates what people have been telling me for the past month. I've heard it from enough different sources to know it's the truth. Besides, I've heard Steve Gaines opine on these subjects for years now. It's really nothing new. It's just become an obsession for some reason.<br />
<br />
<i>In the last 3 or 4 Sundays, Steve has been raving about something.</i><br />
<br />
<i>1) He chewed us out (9:20 service) for not embracing the New Age rock music and belittles us for still wanting the old tried and true songs of the faith.</i><br />
<br />
<i>2) He told us to get the heck out now if we must, because he does not want anyone leaving before or during the invitation.</i><br />
<br />
<i>3) He said kids should not run up and down the aisle or cry while he was preaching; he went on and on about it and told them where to go to take restless kids. (There were no kids running the aisles and no babies crying, but he kept on and on about it.)</i><br />
<br />
I've heard Steve Gaines go off on parents with crying children before. I grew up with a pastor who would not tolerate crying children, so Steve is not alone here. And, as someone who is easily distracted and occasionally aggravated by crying babies and even more, by misbehaving older children whose parents don't make any effort to take control of the situation (i.e. spoiled brats), I am not totally unsympathetic. I'm equally annoyed by loud "ameners" and hand-wavers, too, but when confronted with such distractions I try to tune them out. I just think this "problem" could be handled more delicately.<br />
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<br />
Here is a great compilation video of Steve vs. crying babies. Listen to what he tells the congregation of <a href="http://www.goldengatecathedral.org/">Golden Gate Cathedral</a> about the consideration they should extend to children. Then contrast that with how he acts at home at Bellevue. He loves them. He loves them not. He loves them. He loves them not. Which is it?<br />
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If looks could kill, the expression displayed at the 54-second mark would constitute a felony! <br />
<br />
Apparently Mark Driscoll, somewhat surprisingly, loves them. "You chose life and chose to bring your blessing to church." <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF4qMph9x0I">Video</a> of Driscoll on kids in church.<br />
<br />
For years one thing about Bellevue that has struck me is the absence of children under the age of about 12 from the worship services, and this began long before the Gaines era. With the advent of separate "children's churches" there's little incentive today for parents to keep their children with them during "big church" and teach them how to sit still. So is it any wonder they act up when they finally do attend worship services? Perhaps this contributes to the drop in attendance once they reach high school and college age. They're no longer being entertained.<br />
<br />
I do think age-segregated Sunday School (or whatever they call it now) is appropriate, but when it's time for the church body to gather to worship corporately, if a child is above the age of 3, s/he's old enough to sit with mom and/or dad. Of course, preachers like Driscoll are going to have to clean up some of their sermons, but that's okay. I've heard a few of Steve Gaines' sermons that weren't exactly G-rated either, so that would be a good thing. Then if the child cannot control him or herself, I think parents <i>do</i> need to escort the child outside as a courtesy to others, including the speaker, but only until the kid gets a grip and can return with the parent. So I have no problem with the "parents' room" and politely reminding people (before the service, not during) that it's available, but it shouldn't be a substitute for a child attending the service "live" with the parent(s).<br />
<br />
After reports about him "going on and on about it" for the past couple of weeks, it culminated Sunday morning in a speech directed at parents of young children that was "blued out" of several minutes of the live feed and will likely be edited out of Sunday morning's sermon if it's eventually posted on the church website. (By the way, what have they done to the church website? It's completely messed up.)<br />
<br />
In Sunday's bulletin was this announcement about Ryan Wingo leaving:<br />
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Which makes another part of Sleuth's comment... interesting.<br />
<br />
<i>And the clicker is that Ryan and Lindsey Wingo and 2 kids are leaving to go to Apex, NC. This is a real shocker.</i><br />
<br />
Yeah,
I didn't see that one coming either. Does anyone think <a href="http://apexbaptist.org/im-new/staff">a church with a
staff of about a dozen people</a> is
going to pay a music minister anything close to what Bellevue does?
Perhaps as someone said, "Maybe they decided <i>There's Gotta Be More.</i>"<br />
<br />
We now know what transpired during the <a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v60553787fANZJ9pN">missing minutes</a>. (Thanks to the anonymous person who contributed that. I have verified its authenticity.)<br />
<br />
First was a short announcement about Ryan Wingo leaving and a short, slightly awkward statement by Ryan. Then came the real meat...<br />
<br />
Steve is concerned for his personal safety and does not want crying babies and misbehaving children distracting him! (After listening to this, might I suggest eyeglasses?) I have no idea if he's received a credible threat, if it's his imagination, or if he's using one incident of a man walking down the aisle holding a hat to make it sound like someone's crying baby and someone else's toddler running around all led to him feeling fearful. It's a mystery. I also do not understand why they felt the need to omit this from the live feed.<br />
<br />
I stumbled across an excellent article on church "crying rooms" on the blog <a href="http://monstrousregimentofwomen.blogspot.com/2009/11/crying-rooms.html">Monstrous Regimen of Women</a> (a title which probably strikes fear and loathing in the hearts of most Southern Baptists). The blogger made some good points which I think Steve Gaines and all of us should consider:<br />
<br />
<i>1) The children behave better if there is no crying room or 'play room' as they
see it. They sit in the pew next to us, leafing through books or drawing. If
they get disruptive, one of us takes them outside to calm down before they come
in again.</i><br />
<i><br />2) There are more young families present, possibly because they do
not feel duty bound to sit apart from the rest of the congregation like outcasts
because they have embraced the Church's teachings and been open to life.</i><br />
<br />
<i>3)
People are more accepting of the fact that there are children in church because
they do not expect them to be shut up out of hearing in a glorified cupboard.
When an old lady attacked me for having 'distracting' children, she kept saying,
"there is a facility, there is a facility. Your children should be in there."</i><br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.fmcmissions.com/2012/11/08/banished-to-the-cry-room-a-parents-plea-to-the-church">Here</a> is another excellent article from the parents' standpoint. Both these blog articles were written by Catholics, but the same principles surely apply to Baptists. On the one hand, Steve doesn't want crying babies disrupting the service, but never mind that the sound system is turned up so loud, in all services, during the music, sermon, and especially, for some reason, the announcements, that you either need earplugs or must be willing to sacrifice several decibels of your hearing every time you walk through the doors. I suppose the "source" of the noise is what matters. No wonder babies are crying. Their ears hurt!<br />
<br />
Steve says, "It's the difference between heaven and hell." Well, it may mean the difference between a young couple or single mother ever darkening the doors of Bellevue again, too. <br />
<br />
All this recent paranoia about Steve and the church being under attack... I do not believe "demons" are waging a full-fledged "attack" on Steve Gaines and Bellevue. I do not believe anyone at Bellevue, or in the USA for that matter, is being "persecuted" for being a Christian. Sitting in an opulent air-conditioned building worshiping freely without the threat of physical harm, I don't think Steve or really any of us appreciate how blessed and privileged we are. If a crying baby in a worship service is the worst thing Steve has to deal with, thank God! We have no clue what persecution is. One only has to look at several middle eastern countries right now to see examples of real persecution. To compare American Christians' situation to those of people around the world who are being tortured and killed for their Christian faith is a grave insult to all of them. So enough with the "we're being persecuted" schtick.<br />
<br />
Most of Bellevue's problems are the result of a narcissistic, ham-fisted, my-way-or-the-highway pastor, spending way too much money on salaries and facilities and programs, and the sheer size of it. It long ago became more of a business than a church, and recent developments hint that it's veering dangerously close to cult status. In other words, Bellevue's leadership is their own worst enemy. And maybe, just maybe, <i>that's</i> the real clicker.New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com21tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-26265895875935134042013-06-09T14:50:00.000-05:002020-05-03T21:34:08.562-05:00You may be seen as fringe.<div>
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The Southern Baptist Convention is about to convene their <a href="http://www.sbcannualmeeting.net/sbc13/default.asp">2013 annual meeting</a> in Houston, Texas, and the <a href="http://www.sbcpc.net/">Pastor's Conference</a> begins today. In a world where the SBC is becoming more irrelevant by the year, <a href="http://abpnews.com/culture/social-issues/item/8563-blog-pastor-chastises-abuse-activist#.UbQMDNjGDbw">this</a> just might be the headline story from this year's gathering.<br />
<br />
Since I don't seem to be able to comment on the <i>ABP</i> site, this is what I'd say to Doug Bischoff's rebuttal to Amy Smith's allegations:<br />
<br />
<i>Bischoff said the Smiths misinterpreted the conversations. "When I spoke with Amy and then with Matt, I expressed that we as a church are not -- nor have we ever been -- against them personally, their organization or their mission to protect children," he said. "Houston's First Baptist Church takes very seriously the safety and well-being of the children who attend our church, and we hope and pray that other churches -- of all denominations -- are doing the same. We applaud Amy for her dedication to SNAP and the survivors whom they serve." </i><br />
<br />
<i>Bischoff said he did not ask them to resign from their position as teachers in the student ministry, but they suggested during conversations that he did. "The resignation from ministry was at Amy's insistence," he said.</i><br />
<br />
"We hope and pray." Before I get into the "meat" of this post, I have to get something off my chest. I do believe that "praying!" is one of the most casually thrown about and overused phrases in our lexicon today, and it's not just Christians who toss it around. I've heard news anchors (who may or may not be Christians) use the phrase "our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims" in the case of natural disasters or crimes such as the Sandy Hook shootings. Really? How many times have you seen someone on Facebook write about some illness or problem in their life and seen all the "praying!" responses which often pop up within minutes? Some are likely sincere (I'm not judging who is or who isn't), but I suspect many never give the person or situation another thought.<br />
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I've always been very careful not to tell someone I'm praying for them if I know I probably won't. I always figured that was the kind of thing God might smite me for! Therefore, when I do tell someone I'm praying for them, I mean it.</div>
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I admittedly don't know you, Doug, but I have some questions for you if that's okay. Have you<i> really</i> prayed that other churches value the safety and well-being of children attending their churches? Or was it just the "Christian" thing to say? I consider those who sign off with "Blessings!" or "In HIS name" or "Have a Jesus filled day!"... often after professing ignorance of something you know good and well they're hiding or ripping someone a new one and accusing them of having a "Jezebel spirit"... just as disingenuous.</div>
<br />
Why, if you weren't under orders to "handle the problem," did you call Amy Smith multiple times with such a sense of urgency? Amy says she had never even met you beyond a passing nod in the halls at FBC a time or two and had never corresponded with you in any way. If you "applaud" what she's doing, then why did you call her? Oh, and why did you call her friend first if your issue was with Amy? Funny she didn't mention anything about you expressing any "support" for her activities except to say something about it being okay to point fingers at the Catholics and Penn State but not at Southern Baptists. Are Southern Baptists somehow immune from this problem? Or from any criticism at all?<br />
<br />
When Amy informed you she and her husband were getting ready to go out to celebrate their anniversary, why didn't you do what most reasonable, considerate people would have done (unless it was an emergency) and said something along the lines of, "Oh, sure. No problem. We can talk tomorrow or whenever it's convenient for you. Happy anniversary! I hope y'all have a good time!"? Instead, you started in right then and apparently continued for nearly an hour, struggling to find the right words and, if my own experience is any indication, listening. Lots and lots of listening. I bet you got an earful you weren't bargaining for, Doug!<br />
<br />
You asked if she (and later her husband) didn't see her blogging as "a problem." Hardly "applause" for what she's doing. For the record, her husband said no! He fully supports his wife. So much for dividing and conquering, huh, Doug? You obviously were not calling to support her! Why did you call her then, Doug? What in the <i>world</i> was so urgent that you couldn't seem to articulate within the space of almost an hour? As some like to say these days, let's "unpack" this.<br />
<br />
The following excerpts are from <a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2013/06/three-wise-monkeys-photo-by-menage-moi.html">Amy's blog</a>:<br />
<br />
Your comments as quoted by Amy are in italics, Doug. My response follows each.<br />
<br />
<b><i>I saw your blog.</i></b><br />
<br />
I assume you were directed there at the behest of someone, right? I mean, you weren't just surfing the internet one day and stumbled upon it, did you?<br />
<br />
How much of it did you actually <i>read</i>, Doug? Did you read about John Langworthy and how Jack Graham and other staff members at Prestonwood failed to report not only Langworthy but several other alleged (and known) perpetrators to the police? How they fired Langworthy but let him leave the state and another Southern Baptist church hire him without so much as a peep about the reason he was fired? About how <i>that</i> Baptist church, Morrison Heights Baptist in Clinton, MS, knew, perhaps from the beginning, what Langworthy is, and they failed to report him, too?<br />
<br />
By the way, Hal Kitchings is a common denominator in all this. He and Langworthy are about the same age, went to Mississippi College at the same time, and Kitchings was youth and activities director at Daniel Memorial Baptist Church in Jackson, MS where Langworthy was on staff during the time he was abusing boys, <i>and</i> Kitchings was senior pastor of Morrison Heights Baptist when Langworthy was hired there after being allowed to quietly leave Prestonwood. Are we to believe that Kitchings knew nothing about Langworthy's "issues" during all those years?<br />
<br />
Did you read about Eddie Struble, the former minister of music at your sister church there in Houston, Second Baptist, who was reportedly "let go" for the <a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2011/10/whats-at-stake-protecting-and.html">documented allegations of sexual abuse of a minor</a>? About how he was relieved of his duties at his subsequent position at Humble Area First Baptist where they allegedly knew why he had left Second but had reportedly wanted to "give him another chance"? (All I could think was another chance to do <i>what</i>?!) It would be interesting to know why the victim's father went from seeming to be ready to press charges to... well... crickets.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2020/05/information.html">Eddie Struble information</a>
<br />
<br />
What about <a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2012/05/church-musician-accused-of-sexually.html">this Fort Bend area minister of music</a> who was accused of assaulting a teenage girl? By the way, there's an interesting article linked at the end of that blog post about how the Florida Baptist Convention was tried and found liable for the actions of a former Southern Baptist pastor serving time in prison for the sexual abuse of a 13-year-old boy.<br />
<br />
Or were you just looking for recipes and found her <a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2011/07/texas-chocolate-sheet-cake.html">Texas Chocolate Sheet Cake</a>? (It's probably illegal to serve this in New York City.)<br />
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<b><i>I'm confused. You don't see it as a problem?</i></b> [Amy: speaking out about child sexual abuse by Baptist clergy, about Baptist churches that cover up such abuse, about silence from SBC leaders about this abuse, about the <a href="http://www.abpnews.com/culture/social-issues/item/8537-sbc-leaders-stand-by-accused-colleague">vocal support of another evangelical pastor C.J. Mahaney</a> accused in a lawsuit by 11 plaintiffs of covering up child sex abuse, and planning an awareness event next week at the <a href="http://www.sbcannualmeeting.net/sbc13/default.asp">Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting</a> in Houston]<br />
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What's so confusing about any of this, Doug? Are you confused (i.e. surprised) by the fact that there <i>is</i> an epidemic of CSA by Baptist clergy? That Baptist churches are covering it up? The silence of SBC leaders and even their denial (such as yours) that there is a problem at all except to express support for the cover-uppers and in some cases even the perpetrators themselves? Or is it just that someone actually had the cojones to draw attention to it? You guys try to convince us you're sooooo smart, and yet when confronted with concepts most 8-year-olds grasp... you go all "duhhh" on us. I'm confused by your confusion, Doug.<br />
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<b><i>What good is it going to do, you standing outside the SBC?</i></b><br />
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Because that's where the public sidewalks are and they probably would try to have her arrested if she tried to stand inside? As Amy has stated, if she and others can stand peacefully outside the George R. Brown Convention Center during this year's convention, holding signs and talking to people in the hopes of shedding more light on this epidemic, and if their actions cause even a few more people to wake up, or if it gives even one victim the courage to come out of the shadows and break his or her silence and ultimately bring one more abuser to justice, then <i>that</i> is the "good" it will do.<br />
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On the other hand, what harm can it do? Amy has never mentioned First Baptist Church on her blog, nor has she accused Gregg Matte or anyone else there of any wrongdoing. Or is the real issue here that it might embarrass Gregg Matte and other SBC "leaders" that someone who happens to be a member of Matte's church, the "host" church for the SBC this year, has the courage to confront them about their silence?<br />
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<b><i>What good will it do if the SBC president did issue a statement on abuse?</i></b><br />
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<table align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; text-align: center;"><tbody>
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<tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Fred Luter</td></tr>
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Uh... because he's the president of the SBC? No question it's a figurehead position, but any statement he makes would be covered by the news media. Just think, Doug. What if the president of the... largest... protestant... denomination... in the United States were to issue a statement condemning the silence and cover-up of clergy sex abuse and say something along the lines of this:<br />
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<span style="color: #45818e;">"Once and for all, guys, enough is enough. Stop covering for these perverts, passing them along to other unsuspecting congregations in the middle of the night, and do the right thing! This should not be 'uncharted waters' for us, folks. Most people in 'the world' know exactly what to do when faced with the possibility that a child (or former child) has been sexually abused by someone they know or employ. Why then should we, as a denomination, as churches, and as Christian individuals, not care more about the welfare of 'the least of these' than the 'the world' does? Ladies and gentlemen, have we become so proud, so enamored with our own 'image,' and so desperate to keep the pews warm and the money flowing that we've completely... lost... sight... of what the 'Jesus' we profess to love and follow would do? It is time for us as a denomination, as churches, and as Christians to get our heads out of the sand and to do the right thing regardless of the consequences! As our former president, Charles Stanley, always says, "Obey God and leave the consequences to Him." Folks already see through the image we've worked so hard to maintain and they're leaving our churches in droves. Our numbers are declining every year. [Insert statistics about baptisms, lost churches, memberships, and the decline in giving.] Just because individual Baptist churches are autonomous doesn't mean we can't cooperate in helping to make it difficult for abusers to easily move from church to church. We cooperate as a convention for missions. We cooperate for disaster relief. We cooperate to support children's homes and seminaries. So why not this? I propose we immediately appoint a committee (we Baptists like committees) to work to compile and maintain a database of convicted and credibly accused sexual abusers who have been employed by or are currently employed by Southern Baptist churches. I also propose that we invite other denominations and non-denominational churches to contribute their data so as to help increase the chances that a perpetrator doesn't hop in and out of different denominations. Unlike the do-nothing committee appointed in 2007, this committee will begin work immediately, and this issue will never be allowed to 'die on the vine' again. Anyone who is currently aiding an abuser by covering for him or has let an abuser leave his church's employ without notifying the authorities needs to call the police without delay. Not tomorrow. Not next week. Not next month. Now! The 'church' is NOT equipped, legally or otherwise, to 'investigate' the alleged sexual abuse of a child (or an adult). Sexual abuse is not simply a 'matter for church discipline.' It is a <i>crime</i>. By not reporting cases of abuse or alleged abuse we are breaking the law. Your obligation as pastors is not to investigate. It's to report possible crimes to the proper authorities. It's time for us to do the right thing! We should all pledge this day to do everything in our power to make our churches a safe place for everyone, and the first step is to stop covering for the abusers and supporting those who do. We should encourage victims, not to contact us or to let us 'take care of it,' but to contact the authorities. No longer will we usurp the duties of God-ordained law enforcement agencies. Rather we will recognize and admit that this sort of soul-sucking abuse is indeed epidemic in our convention and churches and do everything in our power to eradicate it, not hide it. I pledge to support the victims of these crimes, not only in word but action. Will you join me?"</span><br />
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I don't know, Doug, but I think something like that (and truly following up on it) would be a good place to start, don't you? Southern Baptists are already a joke anyway with their infamous boycott of Disney (and the repeal thereof before the convention returned to Orlando), their treatment of women, and their attitudes towards minorities, gays, and other groups. Electing "the... first... black... SBC... president... ever... " and ensuring that he ran unopposed... wasn't the answer. Was this the only way he was going to have a chance to be elected? By running unopposed? Frankly, if I were Fred Luter, I would have wanted at least one opponent because I would consider it insulting that no one ran against me, thus risking giving some people the impression I couldn't have won otherwise.<br />
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Anyway, I believe that such a statement by Fred Luter AND the action of pastors in the convention would go a long way towards raising awareness of the problem of child sex abuse in our churches and that a stern word to those covering up the problem might cause some of them to do the right thing. Unfortunately, I believe there are some whose pride will never permit them to admit their inaction exposed another whole generation of youth to wolves like John Langworthy. People like that, short of an act of God, will always put image, power, and money above all else. I'd like to think there are many others who <i>are</i> willing to support victims over perpetrators.<br />
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Fred Luter also has the power <a href="http://www.snapnetwork.org/tn_abuse_victims_blast_nashville_based_baptist_group">to allow representatives of SNAP to address the convention this week</a>. Do I think he will? No. But he could. They're asking to speak, but so far no one has responded to them.<br />
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<b><i>We're not like the Methodists.</i></b> [each Baptist church is locally autonomous]<br />
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See above, Doug. Southern Baptists are quick to "cooperate" in missions, disaster relief, etc. And heaven forbid a Southern Baptist church <a href="http://www.wadeburleson.org/2009/01/tale-of-two-churches-and-their.html">call a female pastor</a>, <a href="http://thewhitedsepulchre.blogspot.com/2009/06/southern-baptists-reject-broadway.html">welcome gay people</a>, hire missionaries who admit they <a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/february/1.21.html">practice a "private prayer language"</a> (key word there should be "private"), <a href="http://www.wadeburleson.org/2013/01/conversion-to-christ-over-glass-of-wine.html">fail to condemn drinking alcohol</a>, or accept for membership anyone who hasn't been properly dunked the Baptist way. The Southern Baptists, from the local associations and state conventions to the national convention burst out of their blissful, autonomous bubbles in a hurry to condemn the actions of a non-compliant congregation when faced with scenarios like the above. Why, then, can we not "cooperate" to protect children? Just because you ignore the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.<br />
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Actually, though, the Southern Baptists <i>are</i> a lot like the Methodists in this regard. While the Methodists have set up a <a href="http://www.umsexualethics.org/">website</a> regarding this subject, their very first advice to victims or those who witness or become aware of potential abuse is to "tell your pastor, the Staff-Parish Relations chairperson, or the District Superintendent." No, no, NO!!! The Methodists have it wrong, too! Your first (I would argue your <i>only</i>) obligation is to call the police. Period. Too often we've seen what happens when victims go to the "church" for help. They're frequently intimidated, demonized, ostracized, and believe it or not, even <i>blamed</i> for their perpetrators' crimes, while the "poor" perps are embraced and "loved on."<br />
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<a href="http://www.wadeburleson.org/2008/09/what-gulf-hurricanes-may-one-day-teach.html">Wade Burleson</a> had a good take on SBC polity and the issue of autonomy. Apparently Southern Baptists are "autonomous" only when it's convenient.<br />
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<b><i>How can you say that?</i></b> [that child sexual abuse within Baptist churches is a systemic problem]<br />
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When confronted with reams of evidence, how can you say it's <i>not</i>, Doug? <a href="http://nctsn.org/nctsn_assets/pdfs/caring/ChildSexualAbuseFactSheet.pdf">Statistics indicate that one in four girls and one in six boys will be sexually abused by an adult (or another minor) before the age of 18.</a> How many potential victims are there in your church alone? Have you seen <a href="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/">Christa Brown's blog</a> and the <a href="http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm">Stop Baptist Predators</a> website? There's a veritable rogue's gallery of Southern Baptist perverts there, Doug, and you and I both know that's just the tip of the iceberg. You really should take the time to educate yourself a little, Doug. <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/majority-of-sexual-abuse-_n_2193408.html">Crimes against children happen everywhere in the world and seem to thrive through a conspiracy of silence and intimidation.</a> The SBC is not immune to this phenomenon, Doug. Oh, no. Check out the statistics.<br />
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<a href="http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates">Sexual Assault Reporting Rates</a><br />
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<a href="http://www.catholicleague.org/sexual-abuse-in-social-context-clergy-and-other-professionals">Sexual Abuse in Social Context: Clergy and Other Professionals</a> (The section on "Ministers" is particularly interesting. Note the stats on Southern Baptist ministers.)<br />
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Are you convinced there's a problem yet, Doug? If not, here are some more resources. Note how old some of them are. Here we are almost halfway through 2013, and nothing has been done beyond a <a href="http://www.sbc.net/localchurches/ministryhelp.asp">feel-good list of resources</a> issued by the SBC in 2008. (This was a small step in the right direction, but it should not have stopped there.)<br />
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News flash! Only about 1% of child sexual abusers make it onto the national sex offender registry. Thankfully, <a href="http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/MS381733/John-Orin-Langworthy.html">John Langworthy is now one of them</a>, but look what it took to get him there and how many children he victimized before someone finally reported him. It's been estimated that fewer than 10% of cases of child sexual abuse are ever reported.<br />
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<a href="http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/06/08/southern-baptist-pastors-continue-making-headlines-for-sex-abuse-caveat-emptor">The Wartburg Watch >> Southern Baptist Pastors Continue Making Headlines for Sex Abuse – Caveat Emptor!</a><br />
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<a href="http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-06-10-southern-baptist_N.htm">USA Today >> Southern Baptists elect a president, reject sex-abuse database</a> (This was 2008. It's five years later, and not much has changed. If anything it's gotten worse.)<br />
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<a href="http://www.sbc.net/PDF/2008ReportSBC.pdf">Responding to the Evil of Sexual Abuse, Executive Committee of the Southern Baptist Convention 2008</a><br />
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<a href="http://www.amazon.com/The-Elephant-Room-Silence-Everyday/dp/0195332601">The Elephant in the Room: Silence and Denial in Everyday Life</a> (book)<br />
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<b><i>You may be seen as fringe.</i></b><br />
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Wow, Doug. Is <i>that</i> the reason for your urgent call to Amy? Because you were concerned she "may be seen as fringe"? Or did someone, perhaps someone higher up, say in Nashville, catch wind of Amy's (and SNAP's) plans and alert Gregg Matte that "Houston, we have a problem!"<br />
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It really doesn't matter. However high up this thing may have originated, you admitted you were acting on the orders of Gregg Matte. Apparently Matte had a problem with Amy's activities, so why didn't Gregg Matte contact her personally? After all, many of your colleagues like to trot out (and misuse) Matthew 18. I understand the concept of delegation and how in an organization the size yours that's often necessary, but some things don't need to be delegated. This was one of them.<br />
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Why, if you wanted to discuss such an apparently sensitive matter, did you not at least invite Amy <i>along with her husband</i> to meet with you in person? I think we all know the answer to that, don't we, Doug? You didn't want her husband present. You thought you, a "manly" man, could intimidate a woman. You wouldn't dare talk to a man the way Amy said you spoke to her!<br />
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Let me tell you something about Amy, Doug. This gutsy woman doesn't back down that easily. She didn't let her own parents intimidate her when they cruelly and inexplicably chose John Langworthy, a (more or less) confessed and now CONVICTED CHILD MOLESTER over their own daughter and granddaughters. She didn't let Philip Gunn, an "elder" at Morrison Heights Baptist Church and now speaker of the Mississippi House of Representatives, propose a "resolution" to the John Langworthy mess. (It would be interesting to know what he had in mind, but I suspect it involved money.) She's also not married to one of those men who will keep the little woman in line when men like you say "boo!" (if you know what I mean, and I'm sure you do). So she's not about to cave to you, Doug. Quite the contrary. She... no you... <i>you</i>, Doug, have made a fool and a laughingstock out of yourself, your "senior" pastor, and sadly, your church and the SBC. This is one anthill you should have never kicked, Doug.<br />
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So... who am I going to believe? Hmmm. A woman I've known for the past two years who has proven herself to be a person of her word? Or some paid staff weenie who was so nervous-acting and awkward that Amy finally told you she was just going to save you the embarrassment and awkwardness of having to verbalize what she <i>knew</i> you were trying to express and said she and her husband would just resign their positions and save you the trouble? I pick... the woman.<br />
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It was bad enough, but then you had to make it worse by speaking with the <i>ABP</i>. How dare you say it wasn't <i>our</i> idea, that it was at Amy's "insistence" that they resigned! Surely you could come up with something more believable than that, Doug. Here is Amy's version of your conversation which, interestingly, is almost verbatim the version she told me three days ago.<br />
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<i>After almost an hour on the phone with Doug challenging me about my efforts to raise awareness about abuse within the SBC, I was in tears and finally said to him, "I'm going to save you the awkardness of having to ask me to step down and I will step down." His reply was, "Let's take a few weeks.... " The next day in a meeting with my husband <b>Doug</b> brought up the subject about us stepping down and <b>he</b> [Doug] said, "I told Amy I would think about it, but I've thought about it overnight, and I think it's best that she step down."</i><br />
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What a far cry from saying it was "at their insistence."<br />
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Amy... 1, paid staff weenie... 0<br />
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When I heard Amy didn't wait you out (her one mistake IMO) and <i>force</i> you to "fire" them, I <i>knew</i> you would spin it this way. I just didn't think you'd do it in the national press. You guys are so predictable it's funny. Except that it's so pathetic. It's pathetic that Southern Baptist "leaders" like you, Gregg Matte, Jack Graham, Steve Gaines, and Greg Belser, to name but a few, have, by continuing to ignore the elephant in the room, given all Southern Baptist ministers a black eye. That's sad because there <i>are </i>still good, sincere Southern Baptist pastors out there. But thanks to "manly" men who are more concerned about protecting their "images" and squelching anything they think "the world" might perceive as negative than doing what's right, they've just turned what would have been a small, likely unreported peaceful protest into a national news story. Way to go, boys!<br />
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In closing, Doug, I would just like to say if Amy Smith is considered by the likes of men like you "fringe," then I'm proud to stand beside her and identify as "fringe," too! I believe Amy prefers "frilly fringe."</div>
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New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com15tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-80275173783734593382013-05-25T09:56:00.002-05:002013-06-09T20:41:09.796-05:00Quote of the Last 35 Years<div style="text-align: center;">
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<span style="color: #999999;"><b>Well, I had a nice, long blog post on a somewhat different subject ready to publish, but Blogger ate it... so I'll leave you with what I think sums up the "Conservative Resurgence" rather succinctly.</b></span><br />
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<b><i>A fundamentalist is an evangelical who is angry about something.</i></b><br />
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- <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Marsden">George Marsden</a>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-13567977729703455242013-04-22T23:50:00.003-05:002013-04-23T00:10:09.964-05:00Other than that, how was your dinner?<div>
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-q7X-nDt0V0Y/UXYDwa5-pdI/AAAAAAAABLA/7dVoHA6O7oY/s1600/John+Langworthy+in+Restaurant.JPG" imageanchor="1"><img border="0" height="400" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-q7X-nDt0V0Y/UXYDwa5-pdI/AAAAAAAABLA/7dVoHA6O7oY/s400/John+Langworthy+in+Restaurant.JPG" width="300" /></a> </div>
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b>Convicted child molester, John Langworthy, was spotted today dining in a Jackson, MS restaurant with his wife and daughter. When asked by the manager as his party was leaving if their meal was satisfactory, the person who snapped the photo replied that it was fine until a convicted child molester sat down at the next table. Yes, I suppose that would sap just about anyone's appetite. The manager was reportedly "stunned and concerned" and asked if that was "the music minister from Clinton."</b></span></div>
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b><br /></b></span></div>
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b>John was overheard discussing "prayer" and was said to be "very animated and happy-go-lucky."</b></span></div>
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b>Someone has speculated "this is what happens when someone doesn't have to go to jail and instead gets to all but run the community."</b></span></div>
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b>No worries!</b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b>Oh, and I've just been informed the name of the restaurant is... taa daa... Cock of the Walk. (You couldn't make this stuff up.) </b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b>**********</b></span></div>
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<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>PLEASE, if you were a victim of JL or any other abuser or have information about the abuse of someone else, regardless of how insignificant the information may seem or how long ago it may have occurred, contact the proper authorities and let them sort it out! In Clinton, that would be detective Josh Frazier at 601-924-5252.</b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b>If the abuse or suspicion of abuse occurred in Jackson, MS:</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>Jackson Police Sex Crimes:
601-960-1210</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>In addition to either of the two police departments listed above, to provide any information regarding known or suspected abuse in Hinds County, MS, contact Assistant D.A. Jamie McBride at 601-968-6568.</b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b>If the abuse or suspicion of abuse occurred at Prestonwood or in the Dallas area:</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>Dallas Police non-emergency number:
214-744-4444</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>Child exploitation unit:
214-671-4211</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b><a href="http://www.dcac.org/">Dallas Children's Advocacy Center</a>:
214-818-2600</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>DCAC victim assistant coordinator:
214-818-2613</b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>DCAC will act as the go-between if you do not want to contact the police directly. Don't worry about any statute of limitations. What may seem to be an insignificant detail may be the missing puzzle piece the investigators need. Go to them and tell them what you know and let them determine if it's important! They will keep your identity confidential.</b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #b45f06;"><b>Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (S.N.A.P.) contacts:</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>Mark Belenchia (Jackson, MS), msbelenchia@gmail.com, 601-953-2535</b></span><br />
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b><br /></b></span>
<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>Amy Smith (Houston, TX), spacecitysnap@gmail.com, 281-748-4050</b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>David Brown (Memphis, West TN), DavidBrown38053@gmail.com, 901-569-4500</b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>David Clohessy (national), SNAPclohessy@aol.com, 314-566-9790 cell</b></span><br />
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<span style="color: #783f04;"><b>Barbara Dorris, Outreach Director, SNAPdorris@gmail.com, 314-862-7688</b></span>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com16tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-79254882977682977102013-03-08T03:41:00.000-06:002013-03-08T20:05:18.889-06:00"Prestonwood Baptist Church doesn't seem to understand the power of social media yet."<div>
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CbM5VhzUCww/UTm0vZBjQZI/AAAAAAAABKo/0yHaT0BC2ak/s1600/Prestonwood.png" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="164" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CbM5VhzUCww/UTm0vZBjQZI/AAAAAAAABKo/0yHaT0BC2ak/s320/Prestonwood.png" width="320" /></a></div>
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That title is a timely quote by Chris Tynes, a 14-year member of <a href="http://www.prestonwood.org/">Prestonwood Baptist Church</a> in Plano, Texas. It seems Tynes recently learned about Prestonwood's 20-plus-year cover-up of John Langworthy's abuse of young boys while Langworthy was in their employ. Tynes, to say the least, is not happy.<br />
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His <a href="http://twitter.com/crtynes">Twitter feed</a> gives an account of the events of this week which followed after he was denied the opportunity to meet with one of Prestonwood's ministers, Mike Buster, to ask some questions about the church's handling of the Langworthy situation. These are the same questions <a href="http://www.abpnews.com/ministry/congregations/item/8166-abuse-cover-up-alleged-at-sbc-mega-church">others have been asking</a> for almost two years and have not received any answers, so Tynes is not alone. The "biblical church model" for dealing with anything distasteful in many of today's churches, particularly the big businesses aka megachurches, is to sweep it under the rug. Ignore it. Hope it goes away. And if anyone dares ask questions, he becomes the problem. Image and power trump the safety of children or doing the right (and lawful) thing.<br />
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This blog was the first to expose John Langworthy after an "anonymous" comment by an author I verified and found to be credible. Thus <a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/">Amy Smith</a> was thrust into the spotlight along with Sherry LeFils, two tenacious women who saw to it that the sins of John Langworthy did not continue to be swept "under the blood." The original article appeared <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2011/06/wolves-in-music-ministry.html">here</a>.<br />
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Langworthy's current church, Morrison Heights Baptist in Clinton, Mississippi, inadvertently helped eventually convict him when they allowed him to address the congregation to "confess" on August 7, 2011 and an alert congregant recorded it on video. The video and transcript are at the end of <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2011/08/wolves-in-music-ministry-part-2.html">this post</a>.<br />
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Subsequent articles (<a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2011/08/scroll-down-for-bellevue-related-stuff.html">here</a>, <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2011/08/church-leaders-lawyer-up-in-sex-crime.html">here</a>, <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2011/09/john-langworthy-arrested.html">here</a>, <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2011/09/john-langworthy-indicted-on-sex-counts.html">here</a>, <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2011/11/al-mohler-wakes-up-finally.html">here</a>, and <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2011/12/john-langworthy-update.html">here</a>) were posted during the second half of 2011 with an <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2013/01/john-langworthy-to-plead-guilty.html">update in January</a>.<br />
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I was disappointed to learn Langworthy managed to cut a plea deal with the state, even after the state had said the deadline for any plea agreement had passed and that he <i>would</i> have to face trial, but at least Langworthy is permanently listed on the national sex offender registry and will be on probation for a few years. I think questions need to be asked about how that happened after the deadline passed for a plea deal. Did Langworthy and/or MHBC have one or more friends in high places who pulled strings?<br />
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Of course, that plea covered only the victims named in the case. Other victims could still come forward, and there are victims in Texas, at least one of whom I'm told has recently contacted the police there. This thing may be far from over.<br />
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Questions remain about the role of people at Prestonwood Baptist who became aware of John Langworthy's abuse of boys and simply let him move on to another church without warning anyone. They allegedly even tried to silence some of the victims and did not notify their parents of the abuse. Questions need to be asked, and the people responsible need to be held accountable.<br />
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Chris Tynes is on the warpath. When he went to the church this week and peacefully waited in the parking lot to try to ask Mike Buster why he was refusing to meet with him (since Buster would not talk with him by phone or make an appointment), he was <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWbMAJcIq4">approached by security guards and told to leave</a>. Subsequently a police report was filed by the church in which Tynes was described as "a suspicious and possibly violent person." The message was relayed to Tynes from Mike Buster via the police detective (who was reportedly shocked at such a frivolous report)... "I don't ever want to speak to Chris and we don't ever want him back at church." Wow. Is anyone reminded of Tom Rich's experiences at FBC Jacksonville? It's déjà vu all over again!<br />
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Is it not ironic that Prestonwood "leaders" would let a known pedophile walk free but call the police when a longtime member, who has not, in spite of the church's claims to the contrary, exhibited any "suspicious or potentially violent" behavior, simply tries to ask questions? <br />
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Articles on Tom's case were <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2009/02/this-is-biblical-pattern-for-church.html">here</a>, <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2009/04/whos-really-sociopath-here.html">here</a>, <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2009/04/fbc-jax-watchdog-whos-talking.html">here</a>, and <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2009/04/we-want-to-minister-to-everybody.html">here</a>. And of course, there's his <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/">blog</a>.<br />
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Chris Tynes has now started a <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/People-Against-Prestonwoods-Silence-on-Allegations-of-Sexual-Abuse/429678530451319">Facebook page</a> to air his grievances. Prestonwood "leaders," you had the opportunity to do the right thing over 20 years ago. You failed, and because you failed there are heaven only knows how many more victims of this predator. Does that bother any of you in the least? Apparently not. You have an opportunity to try to do the right thing now, but apparently you're going to fight to keep a lid on this thing and demonize a church member whose only "sin" is trying to ask some questions. (I do NOT want to hear "Matthew 18" trotted out and misapplied here. Tynes DID try to meet with Prestonwood leadership privately, and they refused.)<br />
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Jack Graham and Mike Buster and all the rest of you Prestonwood "men" should be ashamed of yourselves for the way you've handled this, and members of Prestonwood should walk out in droves. But they won't. Some will, but we'll see the same old tired "but that was so long ago" and "those boys should have spoken up then" excuses. Jack Graham will continue to appear on TV every week, command the accolades of the blind sheep who follow him, and revel in the "attaboys" of his good-old-boy network of rich and powerful preachers and "tweet" about great barbecue and what a "master communicator" T.D. Jakes is (seriously). And he and his minions will do everything in their power to marginalize and destroy Chris Tynes and anyone else who threatens them with the truth. Because that is a threat to the flow of the one thing they love and understand best... money. As the subtitle of this blog says, "Follow the money."<br />
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Better buckle up, Chris. It's going to be a bumpy ride. You're about to find out who your real friends are, and I think you're going to be very surprised.<br />
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Oh, and to the great "leaders" of Prestonwood, you<i> will</i> someday understand the power of social media. And bloggers. Those evil bloggers! New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-9740404926014300182013-01-21T23:55:00.000-06:002013-01-23T21:34:37.389-06:00John Langworthy to Plead Guilty?<strong></strong><strong></strong><br />
<strong><span style="color: #cc0000;">Very late word on the street is that John Langworthy will go before a judge on Tuesday morning and plead "guilty" to one or more charges of sexual abuse of a minor! You may recall he exhausted any chance of a plea bargain last month and the case was scheduled to go to trial, so this should mean mandatory prison time.</span></strong><br />
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<a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2012/12/child-predator-john-langworthy-to-face.html"><strong>Watch Keep >> Child Predator John Langworthy to Face Trial</strong></a><strong> </strong><br />
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<strong><span style="color: #cc0000;">Stay tuned for the latest developments! The<em> Clarion-Ledger</em> and Clinton TV stations should have coverage tomorrow.</span></strong><br />
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<strong><span style="color: #cc0000;">Update:</span></strong><br />
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<a href="http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20130122/NEWS/301220047/Ex-choir-director-minister-set-plead-guilty-child-molestation"><strong>Clarion-Ledger >> Ex-choir director, minister set to plead guilty to child molestation</strong></a><br />
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<strong>Apparently I was mistaken. It was my understanding that the chance for any plea agreement by Langworthy had expired and that he was going to trial January 28th regardless. Now I just read that he appeared in court Tuesday morning, entered a guilty plea to 5 of the 8 charges, and the judge gave him a 10-year suspended sentence on each count (a total of 50 years suspended).</strong><br />
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<strong>He must register as a sex offender. That's good, but how many people actually check that?</strong><br />
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<strong>He can't have contact with any of his victims. That means the ones named in the lawsuit. He wasn't in contact with them anyway! What about the victims not named (there were others) and the potential victims out there? I do not see how this does anything to protect them!</strong><br />
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<strong>Other than the inconvenience of "supervised probation" for five years and being placed on the sex offender registry this is little more than a slap on the wrist.</strong><br />
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<a href="http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20130122/news/301220053/victim-it-s-about-bringing-the-darkness-to-to-the-light"><strong>Clarion-Ledger >> Victim: 'It's about bringing the darkness to the light.'</strong></a><br />
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<a href="http://www2.wjtv.com/news/2013/jan/22/admitted-sex-offender-avoids-jail-time-ar-5423040/"><strong>WJTV >> Admitted sex offender avoids jail time</strong></a><br />
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<a href="http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20130123/NEWS01/301230037/No-prison-time-admitted-child-molester-John-Langworthy-former-Clinton-church-minister-choir-director"><strong>Clarion-Ledger >> No prison time for admitted child molester John Langworthy, former Clinton church minister, choir director</strong></a>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com13tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-65370792032773342872012-09-29T20:05:00.000-05:002012-09-29T21:14:50.577-05:00Mac Brunson Reads Apology<div>
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Here is the formal apology from Mac Brunson which was one of the terms of the settlement of the lawsuit filed by Tom and Yvette Rich against Brunson and FBC Jacksonville in Duval County, Florida.</div>
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<em>This video is for noncommercial use only. Its use here is solely for critical commentary and/or parody which qualifies as fair use and is protected under Title 17, Section 107 of the U.S. Copyright Law, aka the "Fair Use Doctrine." </em>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com16tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-77114877519222642072012-09-18T09:26:00.007-05:002012-10-16T23:33:17.151-05:00Memphis City Council to Vote on Non-discrimination Ordinance<div>
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Today, September 18th, Memphis City Council is scheduled to vote on another <a href="http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/sep/17/memphis-nondiscrimination-proposal-under">non-discrimination ordinance</a>.<br />
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Someone posted <a href="http://www.kewego.com/video/c25af638f06s.html">a video clip</a> of Steve Gaines during Sunday morning's service urging people to express their objections to city council approving an amendment to an anti-discrimination ordinance which would include "sexual orientation."<br />
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You may recall this news photo of Steve protesting in front of city hall a few years ago when a similar ordinance was being considered.<br />
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3x7n1Bbb1Ag/UFiHIzOuMEI/AAAAAAAABJ0/09hC6MYe17M/s1600/Steves%2BMad.jpg"><img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5789525906245431362" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3x7n1Bbb1Ag/UFiHIzOuMEI/AAAAAAAABJ0/09hC6MYe17M/s400/Steves%2BMad.jpg" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 269px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 400px;" /></a><br />
Where's the "love" and all that "kindness" he preached about Sunday?<br />
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Some thoughts:<br />
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"You should never be discriminated against because you're a woman."<br />
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ROFLOLOLOLOLOL!!!<br />
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From the mouth of SG that's one of the funniest (and saddest) things I've ever heard.<br />
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I believe the practice of homosexuality is a sin, just like gluttony, laziness, and a host of other sins, but I don't see Steve leading the charge against all-you-can-eat buffets. In fact, he's bragged about essentially being first in line for the dessert bar. ("No one asks if I want dessert. I just tell them to bring me the sampler plate.")<br />
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I still say let city council pass their little ordinance, and make this whole thing go away. It's not going to change anything. Few people would even know about it except for the organized protests by groups like Bellevue. I don't think people should flaunt what they do in their bedrooms be they heterosexual, homosexual, or any other "sexual." I also understand that even the most discreet homosexual who is doing his or her job proficiently and not flaunting his or her orientation can be "found out" by people in the workplace. Maybe they choose to set a small photo of their S.O. on their desk, much like someone like Steve would set a photo of Donna on his desk or a heterosexual man or woman would place a photo of their S.O. on their desk. I see photos of dogs on people's desks all the time, but that doesn't mean they're practicing beastiality! To me, a photo on a desk is not "flaunting" a lifestyle unless perhaps the S.O. is dressed in leather and chains or the employee is flitting around the office in a tutu. You get the picture. This just isn't a big issue in most workplaces in the first place.<br />
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There are redneck types who cannot simply live and let live with people who are "different" than they. They have to quash them or at least marginalize them. I deal with people I'm pretty sure are homosexuals on a daily basis. (I try not to judge people solely by appearances, but when two men or two women are together and referring to each other as "partner" it's pretty obvious.) I probably deal with many more who are homosexuals but they don't look "different" so no one who doesn't know them has a clue. As long as they treat me with respect, I don't treat them any differently than I do anyone else. I admit the open lesbians sort of creep me out much like someone with body piercings creeps me out -- e.g. older women with pierced ears and heavy earrings that have caused their earlobes to sag halfway to their shoulders, but they don't <i>bother</i> me personally. Most of them are more polite than many of the heterosexals I deal with. Homosexual men can be especially charming to women. Unlike a lot of the "manly men" in the church, I guess they don't feel threatened by women.<br />
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I don't think such an ordinance is necessary, but spending any time at all fighting it just brings it to a lot more people's attention (when it likely would have quietly passed or more likely died on the vine) and actually makes a much bigger deal out of it than it is. As long as someone is doing his or her job and not disrupting the workplace, I say leave them alone. How many heterosexuals disrupt the workplace on a daily basis talking about their after-hours exploits with the opposite sex? How many are just plain lazy and incompetent?<br />
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I dare say Bethany Gaines (Steve's daughter) "tweeting" live last summer from her <i>paid job at Bellevue</i> answering phones complaining about people who called, griping about working with "old people," having to get up early (on the days she was even there), and how she'd rather "expose my bare butt than sit here and answer the phones" (direct quote) was more disruptive to <i>that</i> workplace than the vast majority of what competent people who happen to be homosexuals do in the workplace.<br />
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Give me a competent homosexual who keeps his private life private to an incompetent, unappreciative, heterosexual spoiled brat any day of the week! There are a lot more slackers among the heterosexual workforce than the homosexual workforce just because there are a lot more heterosexuals in the workforce.<br />
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Incompetence and laziness are the biggest problems among all groups of people in the workplace, not "orientation." Most homosexuals in the workplace, like most women, just want to be treated equally based on their job performance, not "what" they are or what they do outside of work or who they choose to make a family with. As long as they're not disrupting the workplace and are proficient in their jobs, leave them alone. You'd think all homosexuals are pedophiles and rapists. The vast majority are neither.<br />
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Bellevue has had no fewer than three male pedophiles on staff, and they all targeted boys. I have a strong suspicion they were only the tip of the iceberg, and yet I don't hear any protests about that except a little fuss over Paul Williams.<br />
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And as a final thought, for what it's worth, I don't appreciate David Coombs (per Steve no doubt) sending out an e-mail to the membership instructing Bellevue members to go down to city hall, wear a sticker expressing their protest against something, sitting front and center (so the cameras will catch them?), and encouraging their city councilperson to vote a certain way. This is the church getting involved in matters of government. If they want "the church" (individuals already have that right) to have a voice in government, then "the church" needs start paying taxes! Instead they sit on millions of dollars in assets, eat up city services, and never pay a dime, but they want to tell the city how to run itself. How hypocritical can you be?<br />
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What if someone wanted to support the ordinance? I don't care if it passes or not, but a "church" telling me how to "vote" on <i>anything</i> sticks in my craw.<br />
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This was the message sent to all Bellevue members:<br />
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<i><b>Memphis City Council Votes<br />on Revised Non-Discrimination Policy</b><br /><br />On Tuesday, September 18, at 3:00 p.m., the Memphis City Council will vote on Ordinance 5470, which would include sexual orientation and gender identity to its employment non-discrimination policy.<br /><br />To read more about non-discrimination Ordinances and their impact, <a href="http://factn.org/talking-points-on-non-discrimination-ordinances/">click here</a>.<br /><br /><b>To oppose Ordinance 5470:<br /><br />In person:</b><br /><br />1. Attend the City Council meeting on <b>Tuesday, September 18, at 3:00 p.m.</b><br /><br />2. Be at 125 North Main at 2:30 p.m. for prayer before the meeting.<br /><br />3. <b>Each person will have to go through security, and there will be a line.</b> Remove all sharp objects from your person.<br /><br />4. Please be prepared to sit near the front so that those who oppose the Ordinance will be visible and to wear a sticker that says, "NO AMENDMENT."<br /><br />5. Be prepared to stay for the whole meeting, which may last 2-3 hours.<br /><br /><b>By email:</b><br /><br />1. <a href="http://www.cityofmemphis.org/framework.aspx?page=690">Click here</a> to be directed to the City Council Member page.<br /><br />- Right above the Members' pictures, click "Click here to email all."<br /><br />- Copy and paste the subject line and message below into your email (or write your variation of the same or even your own message).<br /><br />Subject: Ordinance 5470 Regarding Non-discrimination<br /><br />I ask that you oppose any amendments to Ordinance 5470 and approve the ordinance as originally proposed. Thank you for your consideration.<br /><br />- Forward this email to your friends, urging them to do the same.</i><br />
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[There was no point #2.]<br />
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<i><b>Please act today! Each person and each voice matter!</b></i><br />
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So will Bellevue members receive a follow-up message in a few weeks instructing them how to vote at the polls in November? Don't be surprised if they do.<br />
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<b><span style="color: #cc0000;">Update:</span> </b><a href="http://www.wmctv.com/story/19579247/memphis-city-council-landmark-vote-on-anti-discrimination-ordinance-put-on-hold"><b>WMC-TV >> Memphis city council landmark vote on anti-discrimination ordinance put on hold</b></a><br />
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<a href="http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/sep/18/memphis-council-delays-nondiscrimination-ordinance"><b>Commercial Appeal >> Memphis delays final vote on nondiscrimination language about sexual identity</b></a><br />
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BogoaaE32q4"><b>Steve Gaines addresses the Memphis City Council</b></a><br />
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<b><span style="color: #cc0000;">October 16th Update</span>: <a href="http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/oct/16/memphis-approves-protections-for-sexual">Memphis approves protections against discrimination for sexual orientation</a></b>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com8tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-45904708822664793222012-09-17T21:07:00.006-05:002012-09-17T23:00:28.116-05:00Rich and Rich vs. Brunson - Mac Brunson's Deposition<div></div><p><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iBl2RXYZ4zQ/UFfqvIsoZeI/AAAAAAAABI8/nwKezQjeFN0/s1600/MacSnarls.JPG"><img style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0px auto 10px; WIDTH: 204px; DISPLAY: block; HEIGHT: 194px; CURSOR: hand" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5789353941517493730" border="0" alt="" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iBl2RXYZ4zQ/UFfqvIsoZeI/AAAAAAAABI8/nwKezQjeFN0/s400/MacSnarls.JPG" /></a><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">"I chose by my own volitional will to turn my other cheek to him, and he can slap that, too."</span></em><br /><br />For those who would like to read Mac Brunson's February 2012 deposition in the "FBC Jax Watchdog" case, </strong><a href="http://www.newbbc.accura.net/Mac%20Brunson%20Depo%202012-02-06.doc"><strong>here ya go</strong></a><strong>!</strong>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com13tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-74768773864335083912012-07-14T23:49:00.011-05:002012-08-01T08:39:14.342-05:00The Magic of Photoshop<div></div><br /><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wK-5buWOsrY/UAJNw9u3wwI/AAAAAAAABIY/B4Pbo6oNMuE/s1600/Photoshop%2BMagic.JPG"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 254px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wK-5buWOsrY/UAJNw9u3wwI/AAAAAAAABIY/B4Pbo6oNMuE/s400/Photoshop%2BMagic.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5765255976587870978" /></a><br />Update: Now we learn the 2012 photo may be from as long as 10 years ago. Why is it being presented as a current photo when clearly it's either (1) very old and/or (2) edited?<br /><br />(Click on photo to enlarge.)<br /><br /><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sZpmtg8eCqE/UBkvV90PopI/AAAAAAAABIo/SMaSu6_89fw/s1600/SG%2B2005%2Bto%2B2012.JPG"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 100px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sZpmtg8eCqE/UBkvV90PopI/AAAAAAAABIo/SMaSu6_89fw/s400/SG%2B2005%2Bto%2B2012.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5771696451869450898" /></a>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com47tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-34498813978904631332012-05-21T23:11:00.008-05:002020-05-03T16:20:36.016-05:00Sammy Nuckolls Update<div>
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<span style="font-family: "arial";"><em><strong><span style="color: #3333ff; font-size: 130%;">"It warns so many times in the Bible of wolves in sheep's clothing."</span></strong></em></span><br />
-- Ashley Fisher, alleged victim of Sammy Nuckolls<br />
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<a href="http://www.wmctv.com/story/18576266/alleged-victim-of-convicted-video-voyeurist-speaks-out"><strong>WMC-TV >> Alleged victim of convicted video voyeur speaks out</strong></a><br />
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Side note: For all of you looking for "Eddie Struble" I think <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2012/05/sammy-nuckolls-update.html?showComment=1338253305527#c1636258794670310697">this</a> is what you're looking for.<br />
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And this: <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2020/05/information.html">Eddie Struble information</a>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com32tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-37503436328157059852012-03-15T17:45:00.006-05:002012-03-15T18:46:35.850-05:00Steve Gaines Twists Scripture Again<div></div><br /><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3En_JOk-hWs/T2JzIHWVilI/AAAAAAAABHk/TnHZE649e90/s1600/Bellevue%2BVideo%2B2012-02-05%2B05.JPG"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 228px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3En_JOk-hWs/T2JzIHWVilI/AAAAAAAABHk/TnHZE649e90/s400/Bellevue%2BVideo%2B2012-02-05%2B05.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5720261059962833490" /></a><br /><a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2012/03/misusing-scripture-to-scare-christians.html"><b>FBC Jax Watchdog >> Misusing Scripture to Scare Christians: Gaines Suggests Non-Tithers Could Be Killed by God Just as Ananias and Sapphira</b></a><br /><br /><strong>There are no words....</strong>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com32tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-30274271703246954792012-03-04T16:33:00.020-06:002014-08-21T00:19:16.799-05:00Rick Santorum Attends Service at Bellevue<div>
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-q6ylGDoUIsc/T1ReR_ggv1I/AAAAAAAABG0/IE7ZlmEqcn4/s1600/Santorum_Rick%2B%2526%2BKaren.JPG"><img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5716297490238586706" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-q6ylGDoUIsc/T1ReR_ggv1I/AAAAAAAABG0/IE7ZlmEqcn4/s400/Santorum_Rick%2B%2526%2BKaren.JPG" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 226px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 400px;" /></a><br />
Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum, his wife, Karen, and three of their children attended the 9:20 a.m. service at Bellevue this morning. Santorum did not speak, but he and his wife were brought up onto the stage so that Steve Gaines could pray for "you guys." Gaines introduced Santorum as being from Pennsylvania, having attended Penn State, having served in the U.S. Senate for 12 years, and having served in the U.S. House of Representatives for 4 years; however, no mention was made of the elephant in the room (pun fully intended), Santorum's current bid for the presidency.<br />
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<a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v61686221ZmSFxqAZ">Watch</a> the video montage from both Sunday morning services.<br />
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No sooner had the Santorums left the auditorium <a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v61686842cG2pgAaT">Steve took a swipe at the Catholics</a>. If they still stream the services on all those flat-screen TVs throughout the building the Santorums probably heard him on their way out.<br />
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While I realize Catholics aren't the only ones who have "catechism" classes, in the U.S. that's what you think of. His little chuckle right after he said it indicated to me that he either thought he was being cute or it just slipped out (he surely had "Catholics" on the mind having just prayed over them) and he was embarrassed. Kind of hard to tell if it was his "aren't I funny!" heh heh or his "oops, didn't mean to let <i>that</i> slip" heh heh.<br />
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Of course, at Bellevue they <i>don't</i> have "catechism" classes. Instead they have <a href="http://bellevue.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=66485">Step Classes</a> patterned after Rick Warren's S.T.E.P. classes. Prospective members must attend the first of now <strike>two</strike> four of these classes where they're indoctrinated in the ways of Bellevue before they're accepted for church membership. Used to be you could simply transfer your letter from another Baptist church or present yourself for baptism with your profession of faith and you were a member. Now you have to "do things." I've not heard of them forcing people to sign covenants to join the church, at least not yet, but that wouldn't surprise me.<br />
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Then having completed "Step 1," new members are "strongly encouraged" to attend the <strike>second</strike> subsequent classes where they're given "spiritual gifts" and "temperament" tests. Anyone who's interested can search the archives and comments here to see some in depth discussions about <i>this</i> New Agey practice.<br />
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Steve was very careful not to endorse Santorum. In the 11:00 service he made it clear that "we didn't pray he'd win." That's true, but when you say things like "God didn't come to take sides; He came to take over," and "We so desperately need for God to raise up godly leaders," and you're standing three feet away from a presidential candidate who's nodding in agreement... well... it's kind of a <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/03/blessed-are-people-when-righteous-rule.html">slippery slope</a>.<br />
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<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xKnjoDQtqyQ/T1RevjAqRFI/AAAAAAAABHM/hbvs0w6Ttx0/s1600/Santorum%2Bon%2BStage.JPG"><img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5716297997984875602" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xKnjoDQtqyQ/T1RevjAqRFI/AAAAAAAABHM/hbvs0w6Ttx0/s400/Santorum%2Bon%2BStage.JPG" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 226px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 400px;" /></a><br />
Aside from jeopardizing the church's 501(c)(3) status, a non-endorsement is probably a good thing. If I were running for public office I think the last place I'd want to visit would be a Southern Baptist megachurch. Just look at the records of politicians who've visited Bellevue and FBC Jacksonville alone during the past four years.<br />
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<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p5Hg7dzhoNE/T1Q_-eCwa4I/AAAAAAAABGc/hMFfzkzY5uk/s1600/HuckabeeBBC3.jpg"><img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5716264169489066882" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p5Hg7dzhoNE/T1Q_-eCwa4I/AAAAAAAABGc/hMFfzkzY5uk/s320/HuckabeeBBC3.jpg" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 214px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /></a><br />
1. Mike Huckabee "preached" at Bellevue in February 2008, and we all know how <i>his</i> bid for the presidential nomination ended.<br />
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<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FmjihhWxVEY/T1RAX_lQl3I/AAAAAAAABGo/GgsPDNcq0B4/s1600/HuckabeeBBC13.jpg"><img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5716264607988881266" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FmjihhWxVEY/T1RAX_lQl3I/AAAAAAAABGo/GgsPDNcq0B4/s320/HuckabeeBBC13.jpg" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 214px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 320px;" /></a><br />
2. Tennessee gubernatorial candidate, <a href="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2010/08/dr.html">Zach Wamp</a>, accompanied by Ricky Skaggs, visited Bellevue on a Wednesday night in August 2010. In spite of a very enthusiastic reception by many in attendance, Wamp lost in the Republican primary.<br />
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3. Tennessee gubernatorial candidate, Ron Ramsey, visited the prior Sunday. He received a somewhat more tepid welcome than Wamp and went on to lose in the Republican primary.<br />
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4. Myron Lowery, then mayor pro tem of Memphis, visited Bellevue in August 2009. He lost in the mayoral election two months later.<br />
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5. Willie Herenton, then Memphis mayor, visited one Sunday a few years ago. Well, let's face it. Herenton has always been a loser even when he garnered the most votes in elections. However, he lost by a landslide to Steve Cohen in the U.S. House of Representatives Democratic primary in 2010.<br />
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6. Jacksonville mayoral candidate, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/05/brunson-brings-mike-hogan-to-front.html">Mike Hogan</a>, is a longtime FBC Jax member. In May 2011 Mac Brunson called Hogan and his wife to the front to pray over them. In spite of what came to within an inch of being a formal endorsement by Brunson, Hogan lost the race to a little-known Democrat.<br />
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7. Florida Republican gubernatorial candidate, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/07/rick-scott-at-fbc-jax-brunson.html">Rick Scott</a>, visited FBC Jacksonville in 2010. He went on to win the general election but just barely.<br />
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8. Scott's Republican opponent in the primary for the governor's race, <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/08/fbc-jax-was-center-stage-for-florida.html">Bill McCollum</a>, was accompanied by Mike Huckabee the Sunday he dropped by FBC Jacksonville. <br />
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9. <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2012/01/john-blount-gives-newt-gingrich-glowing.html">Newt Gingrich</a> visited FBC Jacksonville recently. He's steadily dropped in the polls since.<br />
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Based upon the track records of other politicians who've appeared in Southern Baptist megachurches, I predict Santorum will lose in the primary. Okay, I realize at this point that's kind of a given, but if you're Santorum do you really want to accelerate the process?<br />
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NXv0o8QdDTE/T1Rf59xP7nI/AAAAAAAABHY/iHetkNI_M6c/s1600/Santorum%2BHandshake.JPG"><img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5716299276478312050" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NXv0o8QdDTE/T1Rf59xP7nI/AAAAAAAABHY/iHetkNI_M6c/s400/Santorum%2BHandshake.JPG" style="cursor: pointer; display: block; height: 226px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 400px;" /></a><br />
Oh, and Bellevue? I have a request. Would you please invite Barack Obama to visit sometime before November? He needs your "touch"!<br />
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<b>Local news coverage</b>:<br />
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<a href="http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/mar/04/rick-santorum-catholic-attends-bellevue-baptist-se/">Commercial Appeal >> Santorum visits Memphis to shore up support; polls show state now a toss up</a><br />
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<a href="http://www.wmctv.com/story/17076277/bellevue-barbecue-on-santorums-plate-in-memphis">WMC-TV >> Bellevue, barbecue on Santorum's plate in Memphis</a><br />
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<a href="http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-republican-presidential-hopeful-spends-the-day-in-memphis-20120304,0,4104139.story">WREG-TV >> Republican presidential hopeful spends the day in Memphis</a><br />
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<a href="http://www.abc24.com/news/local/story/Rick-Santorum-Makes-Pit-Stop-in-Memphis/-XBb3pedrUaGFsjwjEpwrA.cspx">ABC24 >> Rick Santorum Makes Pit Stop in Memphis</a>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com15tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-58242821652742769092012-02-16T21:09:00.011-06:002012-02-17T13:46:51.161-06:00Just think... what if she had a blog?<div></div><br /><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RbLJztxs8FQ/Tz3GL9cepzI/AAAAAAAABGA/30z9hG30SXo/s1600/Commercial%2BAppeal%2B-%2BUnchurched%2B2012-02-16.jpg"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5709937811350529842" style="DISPLAY: block; MARGIN: 0px auto 10px; WIDTH: 207px; CURSOR: hand; HEIGHT: 400px; TEXT-ALIGN: center" alt="" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RbLJztxs8FQ/Tz3GL9cepzI/AAAAAAAABGA/30z9hG30SXo/s400/Commercial%2BAppeal%2B-%2BUnchurched%2B2012-02-16.jpg" border="0" /></a><br />February 16, 2012 -- On the front page of the <i>Commercial Appeal</i> (above the fold, no less) appeared this story:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/feb/16/unchurched">Unchurched: Longtime member faces discipline at Second Presbyterian</a><br /><br />In a nutshell, Dr. Nan Hawkes, 59, a member of Second Presbyterian for 35 years, has been accused by the pastor, Sandy Willson, and the church's elder board of "offenses of immorality and contempt for the established order of the church." Hawkes was notified in a FedEx-delivered letter from the church that she has been barred from attending her Sunday School class and is expected to appear before a "commission" of 5 church members headed by criminal court judge, Chris Craft. Pending the outcome of this disciplinary hearing, Hawkes may be excommunicated from the church.<br /><br />So... what "offenses of immorality" did Hawkes commit? Stealing? Murder? Child abuse? Sexual immorality? Blogging??? Nope. Dr. Hawkes, a neuro-psychologist, is accused of calling senior pastor Sandy Willson a "narcissist" because of his heavy-handed tactics and ruling over the church. Hawkes claims she did call him a narcissist but that it was taken out of context. Specifically, she claims, someone on the church staff asked her how to best deal with Willson.<br /><br />Now, if someone on staff actually had to consult a licensed psychologist for advice on how to deal with the pastor... doesn't that establish that there might just be a very real problem with Willson's leadership style? It sounds as if Hawkes recognized in Willson the characteristics of "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" and, I assume, advised the person accordingly <i>in a private conversation</i>. <a href="http://power2serve.net/narcissism_in_the_pulpit1.htm">Here</a> is an excellent article on the problem of NPD in the pulpit. Unfortunately, we've seen other megachurch pastors with many of these same traits.<br /><br />The Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC), of which Second Presbyterian is a member, <a href="http://www.epc.org/about-the-epc/position-papers/ordination-of-women">approves of female elders</a> but apparently leaves the decision on this "non-essential" issue up to the individual congregation. Dr. Hawkes claims the root of the problem is that she has nominated women for the board of elders only to be told by Willson that only "qualified men" can be elders in his church. It's unclear from the article if this is part of the church bylaws or if it's simply a decree by Willson. It would seem Dr. Hawkes' defense hinges on this point. Have female elders always been expressly forbidden by this church's bylaws (in which case Dr. Hawkes should have moved on long ago if she objected and the majority of church members didn't desire to change things), or is this a lone declaration by Sandy Willson (in which case the board of elders needs to get a tighter rein on him)?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.noethics.net/News/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1892:judge-chris-craft-of-memphis-enablerapologist-for-judicial-misfits-lifetime-porker&catid=34:judicial-misfits&Itemid=55">Here's</a> some interesting background on <a href="http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Chris_Craft">Chris Craft</a>, the criminal court judge charged with leading this kangaroo court. Funny, but his call for less transparency there flies in the face of his comments <a href="http://www.tnreport.com/2011/08/court-of-judiciary-elects-new-leadership-promises-transparency">here</a>. And in a statement that shows the true colors of authoritarian men and the men they surround themselves with... <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTZzamBRWhY">here</a> is Chris Craft explaining that "laymen" don't possess the ability to understand what judges must endure, thus making them unqualified to serve on the Tennessee Court of the Judiciary, the misnamed body charged with hearing complaints against judges and imposing sanctions when necessary. In other words, only judges can police other judges. Which may help explain why corruption among the Tennessee court system is so rampant. But I digress.<br /><br />What's even more appalling, as if this story could get more appalling, is that a friend of Dr. Hawkes, Jan Wardle, a fellow 2PC member and member of the church choir, dared to defend her friend in a letter to church leaders. The leadership responded in typical loving "Christian" kindness by banning Ms. Wardle from the choir "until the matter is resolved."<br /><br />And it gets worse if Dr. Hawkes' account is accurate. She claims the church wants her to sign a document which states she cannot sue the church (she claims she couldn't sue them anyway) but that the church retains the right to sue her. Who in their right mind would sign something like that? Why would the church want her to sign something like that?<br /><br />The comment stream, over 200 comments as of this writing, is interesting. As several people noted, there must be more to this story than what the article states. However, we've seen enough of this type behavior from other megachurch pastors with seemingly narcissistic tendencies to confidently speculate that the problem is an authoritarian figure who cannot ignore criticism and will not stand for anyone disagreeing with him or criticizing him in any way. Maybe the woman is a pain in the rear, but dealing with difficult people is part of being a leader. Unfortunately, the way many church "leaders" deal with those who don't fall into lockstep with them is to try to silence them through intimidation. Most of the time this is effective, but every once in a while you get a Nan Hawkes. Or a "Watchdog."<br /><br />Ask any upper-level staff member at Bellevue about the "covenant" which they were required to sign after Steve Gaines was hired, the document they were required to sign if they wanted to keep their jobs. It all boils down to this. There will be no disagreement with "Pastor." You will tithe and we will check it. It's my way or the highway. If you don't like it, leave.<br /><br />I couldn't have summed up this whole thing better than this:<br /><br /><b>patbuchannan</b> writes:<br /><br />So, to prove the himself not a narcissist, the minister moves to excommunicate someone who criticized him. Well, that's a narcissist for you.<br /><br /><br />Other select comments:<br /><br /><b>bingo</b> writes:<br /><br />This is embarrassing to all Christians. Leave the woman alone. The Church is full of gossips over there. You are all being laughed at. It is a church, not an empire. You people on this committee should be ashamed of yourself. She is the only woman in that church that gossips? Sure, go hang out with some of the PDS moms for 5 minutes and rethink that.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(PDS is Presbyterian Day School, 2PC's private all-boys school which will set you back about $18,000 a year in tuition and fees. I guess girls are expendable.)</span><br /><br /><b>rtaman50</b> writes:<br /><br />I can only hope there are comments that were made that were more serious than what was pointed out in the article. Otherwise I agree with bingo. Gossip is a human failing that can be found in any church. And it is a forgivable sin. As a Presbyterian (and Christian who struggles daily with my failings) I am embarrassed that something like this should be elevated to the level of a church trial. If this lady is tried, you'd better go after the adulterers, liars, and cheats that are surely within your congregation. Church is supposed to be a hospital for sinners; not a shrine for sanctimonious "saints".<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(I've never liked the "church is a hospital for sinners" line, but "rtaman50" states the obvious. Why this particular woman? And why the "minor" sin of "gossip" when you ignore the "major" sins of adultery, etc.?)</span><br /><br /><b>funnymom</b> writes:<br /><br />Willson and Hawkes need to be locked in a room together where they can come to an agreement without all the grandstanding in front of church elders and the media. I'm sure there's a way for both of them to save face, and to use this strife as an example of how healing can occur even when you think it can't. Of course, both of them have to want to heal. They need to pray for each other and not pray to win.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(You're an idealist. That would have been the way for Mac Brunson and Tom Rich to try to iron our their differences, too, or when people asked to meet with Steve Gaines, access that was flatly denied by David Coombs, but egos like those of Brunson, Gaines, and apparently Willson, will not permit coming to any "agreement" or any compromise. They will not even consider the possibility that they could be wrong about anything. Remember, it's their way or the highway.)</span><br /><br /><b>clintatl#542381</b> writes:<br /><br />Typical. This "church" has become less about worshiping God and more about worshiping Sandy Willson. Sounds to me like Dr. Hawkes should find a real church and leave this cult of personality behind.<br /><br /><b>revreader</b> writes:<br /><br />in response to <b>ohknow</b>:<br /><br /><i>It hurts my heart also. I can only imagine that this lady's actions and words have been understated in this article. Sandy Willson is a reasonable man and a wonderful pastor.<br /><br />The context of forgiveness in this case does equal acceptance. They are not trying to kick her out of the church, as in the Body of Christ. They are trying to get her to stop coming to this particular church.<br /><br />Reading between the lines, I believe she's a raging feminist who's resentful that none of her female nominations have been approved. Maybe those denials have been on merits and have nothing to do with their sexual organs!? Just a thought.<br /><br />If she is so disruptive to a congregation that this action is necessary, my guess is there's something terribly wrong (with her).<br /><br />What would Jesus do since cynics are asking? Well, He is Lord and Savior so I doubt any of us actually have a clue what He'd do. But he does command us to forgive our debtors, and I'm sure most at the church will make forgiveness a top priority. But, forgiveness is far from acceptance.</i><br /><br />Denials based on merits?<br /><br />Riiiight, just like the Memphis Country Club turns down blacks for membership on their merits, not their color. Get your head out of the sand, good sister. The hypocrisy of this church and its leadership is off the charts.<br /><br /><b>dahrius1#340734</b> writes:<br /><br />in response to <b>robject</b>:<br /><br /><i>Second Pres is a long, narrow city block of brick and intolerance. What an absurd and pathetic joke this religious star chamber is.</i><br /><br />Yes, Second Presbyterian was a charter member of the MCRA along with Idlewild. The MCRA is a church sports organization that got kids from Whitehaven to play with kids from G'town and Bartlett. There were churches all over the city and sometimes that meant a white church like 2nd Pres would have to visit an unfamiliar part of town. It was great and just what this city needed until some of the parents from 2nd Pres, Independent Pres and Hope Pres decided they were uncomfortable going to those areas and started the ESCRA which basically means East Shelby white church rec assoc. Yeah, I'm sure this woman is a "raging feminist." 2nd Pres just isn't the place for people like her that would dare challenge the church. They do have a good school if you have loads of cash....<br /><br /><b>EdRedLives</b> writes:<br /><br />in response to <b>wahoo71</b>:<br /><br /><i>This is yet another example of the high level of arbitrary authoritarianism that has been going on for years at Second Presbyterian.<br /><br />'hoo</i><br /><br />It’s not restricted to just Second Pres. That is the main reason why I do not belong to a large church. They tend to lose sight of the reason for their existence somewhere along the way.<br /><br /><b>AUserWithThisNameAlreadyExists</b> writes:<br /><br />The part of this that especially bothers me is that they wanted her to sign a paper stating she would not sue, but that said that they could sue her.<br /><br />I wonder if a male acquaintance who dumped his wife and moved with a co-worker to another state is still considered a member in good standing there.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(Ouch.)</span><br /><br /><b>lifespalette54</b> writes:<br /><br />in response to <b>EastMem</b>:<br /><br /><i>I am a member of Second Presbyterian Church. When I joined the church I took the same oath as every other member which states the Church has the authority to discipline its members who break God's law. I do not know the woman mentioned in the article but I have found 2PC to be a place of love and kindness. I am sorry for her unhappiness. All of us are fallen and sin. Thankfully, God has forgiven me and continues to forgive me. I thank the church for making hard decisions and holding its members to the law. I don't know what charges she has been accused of but I do know that 2PC takes this process very seriously. It is unfortunate she felt the need to go to the CA.</i><br /><br />Careful EastMem..... talking about someone you don't even know and about something you don't know anything about.... isn't that gossip?<br /><br />Maybe the church and Pastor Sandy should set your church trial for the next business meeting agenda as well...... rules are rules as you say.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(LOL!)</span><br /><br /><b>rcoleman72</b> writes:<br /><br />I'm Christian and I don't get this at all.<br /><br />How and why in the world would you bar anyone let alone a professed Christian from Sunday school class? No matter what differences you have with them. If there's a perceived problem with a person's level of faith/obedience to God, how do you help them by banning them from being taught the word of God??? I would understand if the person in question was teaching the Sunday school class or holding some other position of authority (then you would just have them step down from leadership), but that isn't the case here.<br /><br />And... a fellow church goer writes a letter on her behalf and is asked to leave the choir? What?!?! So anyone that supports a friend is punished?<br /><br />C'mon fellow Christians, enough with the banning of people that aren't already "perfect Christians." We should be drawing those people nearer to us!!<br /><br /><b>EdRedLives</b> writes:<br /><br />Several years ago, we got a call at one of the "tolerant" Presbyterian churches in the general midtown area. We were met at the door by a staff member who angrily informed us that "one of those people" had wandered into the sanctuary. I never found out if "those people" referred to the guy being homeless or black, but he had in fact come into the church and was sitting in one of the pews. Just sitting.<br /><br />The "tolerant" church staff demanded that we arrest him. They didn’t care why he was there and didn’t want to ask. He never gave us any trouble, or even said a word. I suspect he was there for help, but they wouldn't hear of it.<br /><br />We made a big show of "arresting" the poor guy, but we seem to have gotten lost on the way to 201 and wound up at Union Mission instead.<br /><br />So much for my dealings with the "tolerant" midtown / Presbyterian churches.<br /><br /><b>patbuchannan</b> writes:<br /><br />Well, she is just a woman, so why does what she said about Sandy carry any weight? I mean, you know how hysterical women can get.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(Good point.)<br /></span><br /><b>jackreacher</b> writes:<br /><br />I have been in church for more than 60 years and have never known anyone to get kicked out of the church for disagreeing with the minister or even talking against the minister. And kicking someone out of the choir for taking sides against the minister - the 2nd Pres leadership seems like a bunch of Nazis.<br /><br />If it were me - I wouldn't take part in this kangaroo court they dreamed up - there has to be a better church to go to.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(I wouldn't go either, but <i>if</i> Ms. Hawkes does decide to show up I'd highly advise her to not go alone! Do NOT meet with these people alone! Take a lawyer and at least one trusted friend, perhaps Ms. Wardle. Oh, and be sure to record the proceedings.)<br /></span><br /><b>Griff64</b> writes:<br /><br />in response to <b>EastMem</b>:<br /><br /><i>I am a member of Second Presbyterian Church. When I joined the church I took the same oath as every other member which states the Church has the authority to discipline its members who break God's law. I do not know the woman mentioned in the article but I have found 2PC to be a place of love and kindness. I am sorry for her unhappiness. All of us are fallen and sin. Thankfully, God has forgiven me and continues to forgive me. I thank the church for making hard decisions and holding its members to the law. I don't know what charges she has been accused of but I do know that 2PC takes this process very seriously. It is unfortunate she felt the need to go to the CA.</i><br /><br />I would be wary of any church that makes members sign a membership covenant that includes submission to discipline. This is a troubling sign of an authoritarian pastor who has put himself in the business of substituting his own judgment for God's. It's also the first step in the slippery slope that is the descent from church to cult. (For an example of a church that's somewhat further down that slope, click on the link below.) It has also been my observation that churches which seek to enforce this type of submission in its membership also encourage and cultivate a culture of male dominance, which also seems to be at work here. One does not have to be a radical feminist to recognize it and push back against it.<br /><br />This type of church power structure is not the norm, and it is not an EPC thing. I belong to another EPC church in the area, and we have nothing like it. (We also have about 50% female elders, and one female pastor out of three).<br /><br /><a href="http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/01/25/mark-driscolls-mars-hill-a-tutorial-on-spiritual-abuse">http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/01/25/mark-driscolls-mars-hill-a-tutorial-on-spiritual-abuse</a><br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(Hey, someone else out there reads The Wartburg Watch!)</span><br /><br /><b>Sistawoman</b> writes:<br /><br />Good heavens, what has happened to 2nd Pres? When did they take a hard right and lock-step back a couple of centuries? The really puzzling thing to me is that I have known many sharp, professional, savvy women who belong to 2nd Pres. What are they thinking about the "no women shall be elders rule"? I can't believe they meekly go along with that like sheep or like brainwashed Muslim women.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(Which brings us back to the question of whether this is set-in-stone official church policy or Sandy Willson's proclamation.)</span><br /><br /><b>Balance</b> writes:<br /><br />What kind of church is this church??? Christian church? Is this Judge Chris Craft the same one who in now in trouble with the legislature for covering the corruption in the Tennessee Court of Judiciary? It is going to be interesting to know what kind of gossip this poor woman was spreading. Maybe it was just the truth.<br /><br /><b>AverageJoe1001</b> writes:<br /><br />Although we don't know all the details of this story, a few things sound odd. If indeed they exclude women from the position of elder, then there is something fishy about this church.<br /><br />There is a slippery slope when you start to single out people for exclusion based on their gender. Who else is excluded from this church leadership? Seems like a rather exculsive church.<br /><br />Women in other cultures are routinely put down in a very public fashion (many are not allowed to drive or get a drivers license). Women in the American culture are put down in a more subtle fashion, but there are some striking parallels. Obviously stoning is not allowed in this culture, so perhaps a legal form of stoning. Having a judge preside over a church court seems to be a serious misuse of position and power.<br /><br />Just a few thoughts. How about publishing all the facts about this case so we can get a real and accurate picture of this situation. It would benefit all churches in Memphis and also benefit women in Memphis if we could know and understand this situation. If this is a legitimate thing, then the church should be glad to have it aired in public, otherwise it would look like they are hiding some secrets.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(Ah, but their argument is that exclusion based on "gender" is biblical. After all, according to Piper, Driscoll, et al.,</span> <a href="http://www.wadeburleson.org/2012/02/pipers-masculine-christianity-actually.html">Christianity is masculine</a><span style="color:#cc0000;">. And as for having a judge presiding over things... A.C. Soud at FBC Jax, anyone?)<br /><br /></span><b>feburg</b> writes:<br /><br />in response to <b>wahoo71</b>:<br /><br /><i>This is yet another example of the high level of arbitrary authoritarianism that has been going on for years at Second Presbyterian.<br /><br />'hoo</i><br /><br />I think with your statement, and the Dr's observation, alleging Willson to have a narcissistic personality (NP) disorder, and comments by others from his church, perhaps the church council should consider exploring that possibility before it moves against Dr. Hawkes. I would suggest that all parties (especially the appointed judge) consider the following article, with citations, that discusses NP leadership and the church: <a href="http://power2serve.net/narcissism_in_the_pulpit1.htm">http://power2serve.net/narcissism_in_the_pulpit1.htm</a>. In particular, I found that this article suggests that "[it] would be prudent to... have a formal evaluation of the pastor done, ....", prior to exercising the extraordinary action of removing any parishioner. A NP pastor will always try to remove those who he feels threatens his authority (arbitrary authoritarianism) and can cause much dissention within the church.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(Yes, this would appear to be a good place to start. It'll also never happen.)</span><br /><br /><b>AverageJoe1001</b> writes:<br /><br />I would hope that the women of this church would stand up for themselves and stand in solidarity behind this woman just for the principle of the thing. Are the women of this church capable of thinking for themselves, or are they entirely slave to the husband's power, position and money? The greater issue here goes far beyond this woman against this church.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(Don't hold your breath. Most probably didn't know about it until this morning, but don't you know the phone lines were buzzing and discussion among the PDC moms was especially lively today?)</span><br /><br /><b>1oftheBest</b> writes:<br /><br />Second Pres has absolutely nothing to do with God. Why would a church need another book on how to conduct yourself in the Lord's house. The BIBLE is what governs the Lord's house. When you make up your own church and rules God has nothing to do with that. One God, One Church, and One Baptism. The Church was paid for with the Blood of Jesus and it is written how you should worship and where. Doc, they're doing you a favor.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(The <i>Book of Order and Discipline</i> does have sort of a <i>Book of Mormon</i>ish ring to it, doesn't it?)</span><br /><br /><b>priceless109</b> writes:<br /><br />Sandy is among those that I respect most. I am sorry that he is having to deal with this.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(Oh, good grief. Poor Sandy. Look, Sandy Willson is a public figure. He should deal with this the same way most public figures, at least non-megachurch pastors, deal with it. He should either ignore it or try to learn from it. Just like Mac Brunson's actions and Steve Gaines' inactions (see Paul Willaims), Sandy Willson's own actions ultimately resulted in this making the front page of the newspaper.)</span><br /><br /><b>AverageJoe1001</b> writes:<br /><br />in response to <b>aztec13</b>:<br /><br /><i>Whatever your personal beliefs, it is still unconstitutional for the government or lawyers or judges to tell churches how to govern themselves. You'd be surprised how many women don't agree with you. An elder is an ordained position, and many men and women think that ordained positions should only be filled by men. It's not necessarily what I believe, but I can see the argument from both sides.</i><br /><br />I would not be surprised in the least if many women did not agree with me. How could any woman think logically if she had been taught all her life that she is inferior due to her gender, and unequal to a man. If you hear such garbage all your life you come to believe this nonsense. You have only to visit one of the other Presbyterian churches in town that have a woman minister to realize just how equal a woman minister is to a man. I cannot help but admire the courage of that woman who was kicked out of the choir. At least one woman at 2nd Pres has the dignity and courage to stand up and say in public, "This is not right."<br /><br /><b>songbird61</b> writes:<br /><br />I was a member of 2PC for years. At one time a teacher of a women's group was asked to stop teaching. Her husband was divorcing her so he could marry his mistress. That church is ruled with an iron fist -- Sandy's.<br /><br /><b>Poonster</b> writes:<br /><br />According to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church's Book of Order and Discipline, "immorality" is:<br /><br />" ... conduct inconsistent with the biblical standards for conduct, including but not limited to bickering, brawling, debauchery, drunkenness, gossiping, hatred, idolatry, impurity, slander, and sexual immorality such as adultery, fornication, homosexual practice, and bestiality. The terms 'bickering' and 'gossiping' as used herein are intended to deal with those acts that are disruptive to the peace and unity of the church."<br /><br />That should wipe out about two-thirds of the congregation, shouldn't it?<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(I'd guess closer to 100%.)</span><br /><br /><b>synapse</b> writes:<br /><br />I've been wandering why The Commercial Appeal has been ignoring the Mo' Money Taxes thing.<br /><br />Now I most certainly understand.<br /><br />Certainly this incendiary crisis demands all available journalistic resources available.<br /><br />Has Channel 5 sent their helicopter yet?<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">(Certainly. It is indeed curious why this story would make the front page of the paper.)</span><br /><br /><b>Eaglemate</b> writes:<br /><br />in response to <b>aztec13</b>:<br /><br /><i>If the EPC is like many denominations, they may allow any number of things, but they leave the decision up to the individual church. That way if a church congregation is more conservative, they may choose not to allow female elders (or whatever), while a more liberal church in the same denomination can have all the female elders they like. Neither congregation is going against what the denomination decides is acceptable, and therefore both liberal and conservative churches within the same denomination can be happy. It's supposed to cause less division this way, but there are always people who want to change the nature of the church they're in rather than finding a church that fits their beliefs. It's very telling that this woman has chosen to take her argument to the media (who love church division). I suppose it takes a narcissist to know one, since only a narcissist would assume the entire city of Memphis wants to hear her complaint against a small group of people.</i><br /><br />Aztec13, OK, I get that. Second Pres gets to decide whether it wants women elders and no by-laws dictate that. I looked then to what seems to be accepted in similar churches of the EPC, and after hunting around today, it looks like the EPC does have churches who have female elders.<br /><br />I am not lobbying one way or the other, but I would muse over a few things, the first being how change ever comes about. We said blacks shouldn't use public restrooms, and someone objected to that. We said we shouldn't get involved in Nazi Germany, but someone objected to the lunacy of that.... see where I am going with this? How does change and evolution ever occur without strong people objecting to circumstances that may not be acceptable?<br /><br />My only position is that if a church member is being "investigated" and a "tribunal" held because she is objecting to the lack of female elders, and someone in authority is making aggressive moves to denounce her because of difference of opinion, then the utter lack of respect is unacceptable no matter what the subject is.<br /><br />Maybe the issue needs to be put on the table forcefully.<br /><br />Next, I want to know whether this kind of "tribunal" has been held for other members who have failed to meet the "codes" of the church, such as marital infidelity, debauchery (wonder how many DUI's you'd find among the members.... think I'll have to run a check on that one); other criminal offenses. Get my drift here?<br /><br />Failure to apply this kind of action as a matter of routine and uniformity, is selecting her and singling her out. It smacks of a personal agenda and persecution.<br /><br />Then, one has to ask the obvious question. What rationale is used to keep women out of positions of power in the church? Some EPC churches embrace it, so they must have come to theology that supports such, right? That tells me that Second Presbyterian is fighting mighty hard to stanch an evolution of common sense and just plain wisdom, if not Biblical connotations that support women as elders. Or did other EPC churches just "make that up"?<br /><br />Finally, my question is "Who is 'the church'"? Did the church hold a referendum or stage in-house focus groups to discover what "the church" wants? Or is the church the male pastor and 12 male elders? Well, that one is kinda "duh".<br /><br /><b>Imatiger63</b> writes:<br /><br />in response to <b>AverageJoe1001</b>:<br /><br /><i>Why has this story made the front page of the Commercial Appeal? Perhaps because it is about more than a woman, a church and its pastor. Perhaps it is about the God given rights of women to be treated as equals. Perhaps it is about being able to speak your mind and support another church member without being excluded from the choir. Wouldn't it be interesting if every woman member of this church wrote a letter of support of this woman to the pastor. What would they do, exclude all the women from the choir. Women are the church just as any man is. The church better parachute in some more high powered lawyers on this one, they are on the wrong side of the issue, and no amount of lawyers can correct this situation.</i><br /><br />I agree. I am a Christian, but it bothers me to no end how a few claim to be more in touch with God than the rest of us. These people make themselves out to be the judge and jury of a woman who may or may not have said something mildly inappropriate. And to try to silence others by banning them from other church activities for excercising their right to free speech is appalling. It's no wonder that organized religion turns so many off. Their treatment of this woman is kinda in the same mold as those idiot Muslims that call for the death of someone that says something against Islam. Except the death part, the basis is the same -- intolerence even as Jesus preached tolerence and forgiveness of EVERYONE. This woman is going to be 'on trial'? Wow, I wouldn't have believed it, seems like these people are living in the 16th century.<br /><br /><span style="color:#cc0000;">************</span><br /><br />So what will happen next? Will there be some resolution before "court" convenes? Will the church have an MPD detective from the congregation start an "investigation" into Ms. Hawkes' "possible criminal activities"? Will they issue trespass papers against her and any family members? Will the elders draft a "resolution" warning others about what will happen if they dare to criticize the leadership? If so, will they read it out loud during a church service, have the congregation vote on it, and nail it on the front page of the church's website? Will Nan Hawkes start a blog? Will Jan Wardle return to the choir? Will anyone in the choir walk out in support of her? Will Sandy Willson rail against the sin of gossip in his next sermon and remind the sheep he's "God's man" with special God-ordained authority? Will anyone leave 2PC over this? Will the church's income go down? If there's any fallout from this and it hits them in the collection plate... watch out.New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com35tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-62764540044286827552011-12-16T20:04:00.011-06:002012-10-24T21:58:52.072-05:00John Langworthy Update<div>
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<a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2uA8bOpO9_0/TuwUTBWu69I/AAAAAAAABFw/r2IwrF0ocZY/s1600/Medicap.JPG"><img alt="" border="0" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5686942746475949010" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2uA8bOpO9_0/TuwUTBWu69I/AAAAAAAABFw/r2IwrF0ocZY/s400/Medicap.JPG" style="cursor: hand; display: block; height: 202px; margin: 0px auto 10px; text-align: center; width: 400px;" /></a><br />
<b><span style="color: red;">Update:</span></b><br />
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<a href="http://www.wlbt.com/story/16347603/group-spotlights-sex-offenders-working-at-local-drug-store">WLBT-TV >> Group spotlights sex offender's working at local drug store</a><br />
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<div class="ezEmbeddedPlayerDiv">
<a href="http://video.wjtv.com/v/49990067/uproar-over-accused-child-molester-s-new-job.htm?q=Langworthy" id="ezEmbedSiteLink" target="_blank">Watch this at WJTV</a></div>
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<strong><span style="color: red;">For immediate release:</span></strong><br />
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<b>Admitted child molesting cleric gets state license</b><br />
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Group urges government agency to rescind it immediately<br />
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He was at Clinton church and now works at local pharmacy<br />
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Man currently faces eight felony counts of ‘gratification of lust’<br />
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<b>WHAT:</b><br />
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Holding signs and childhood photos at a sidewalk news conference, a man who was sexually assaulted by a priest will disclose that<br />
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-- An admitted child molester now works now at a local drug store, and<br />
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-- He was recently licensed by the state of Mississippi as a pharmacy technician<br />
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The victims group will also<br />
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-- Announce that his group is writing Mississippi officials urging that they revoke the predator’s license, and<br />
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-- Urge anyone who saw, suspected or suffered the predator’s crimes to come forward, get help, protect kids, call police and start healing.<br />
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<b>WHEN:</b><br />
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SATURDAY, Dec. 17, 1:00 p.m.<br />
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<b>WHERE:</b><br />
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Outside the Medicap pharmacy, 821 E. Northside Drive (corner of Live Oak) in Clinton, MS<br /><br /><br /><b>WHO:</b><br /><br />A Jackson man and clergy sex abuse victim who is the primary contact in Mississippi for an independent support group called SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAPnetwork.org)<br /><br /><br /><b>WHY:</b><br /><br />SNAP has learned that an admitted child molester, John Langworthy, has – within the last month – <a href="http://msphrweb.starsystemlive.com/star/portal/msphr/IFS/IFSearchItemDetailsPage.aspx?entityId=20d0c8c3-5f56-4a5f-a97a-7a082ec45adc&className=Contact&filingId=b84dd24f-05c1-4976-a2d5-623af4462221">obtained his Pharmacy Technician license from the Mississippi Board of Pharmacy</a> and now works at Medicap Pharmacy.<br /><br />Langworthy was indicted last month on criminal charges of eight felony counts of gratification of lust stemming from allegations that he abused five different children while he worked as a youth music minister at Morrison Heights Baptist Church.<br /><br />SNAP is concerned because in order to get his license, Langworthy would have needed to <a href="http://www.nhanow.com/pharmacy-technician/requirements/mississippi.aspx">pass a background check</a> in order to prove he is of “good moral character.”<br /><br />While he may have passed the criminal background check because of the timing of his application, his indictment and crimes indicate that he is clearly not of “good moral character,” and SNAP wants the MS Board of Pharmacy to immediately revoke his license. SNAP is also concerned because this job could feasibly put Langworthy within access to drugs with which he could tempt young children today as he did in the 1980’s.<br /><br />And the group believes that any time a predator is given a title or position of responsibility, he or she will try to use it to win the trust of parents and get close to kids.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6786/53">Associated Baptist Press >> Former music minister indicted</a><br /><br /><br /><b>CONTACT:</b><br /><br />Mark Belenchia, msbelenchia@gmail.com, 601-953-2535<br /><br />Amy Smith, spacecitysnap@gmail.com, 281-748-4050<br /><br />David Clohessy, SNAPclohessy@aol.com, 314-566-9790 cell<br /><br /><br />Barbara Dorris<br /><br />Outreach Director<br /><br />314-862-7688<br /><br />SNAPdorris@gmail.com<br /><br />Survivors Network of those Abused by PriestsNew BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com30tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-21135119818847811732011-12-15T22:27:00.008-06:002011-12-16T22:23:13.538-06:00Lifeway Recalls Pink Bibles<div></div><br /><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JavyXFiFiTw/TuvsuVmYlzI/AAAAAAAABFk/xAH_iLQvjWU/s1600/Pink%2BBible.JPG"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5686899235301660466" style="DISPLAY: block; MARGIN: 0px auto 10px; WIDTH: 240px; CURSOR: hand; HEIGHT: 320px; TEXT-ALIGN: center" alt="" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JavyXFiFiTw/TuvsuVmYlzI/AAAAAAAABFk/xAH_iLQvjWU/s320/Pink%2BBible.JPG" border="0" /></a><br /><br /><strong><span style="color:#cc33cc;">And Southern Baptists wonder why they're sometimes the laughingstock of the country.</span><br /><br /></strong><a href="http://www.wfaa.com/news/national/Southern-Baptist-publisher-recalls-pink-Bibles--135756953.html"><strong>WFAA-TV >> Southern Baptist publisher recalls pink Bibles</strong></a><strong><br /><br /></strong><a href="http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111215/NEWS06/312150038/LifeWay-s-pink-Bibles-scrapped"><strong>The Tennessean >> Lifeway's Pink Bibles Scrapped</strong></a><strong><br /><br /></strong><a href="http://www.christianpost.com/news/lifeway-christian-stores-ends-sale-of-pink-bibles-after-uproar-64946"><strong>The Christian Post >> LifeWay Christian Resources Ending Sale of Pink Bibles After Uproar</strong></a><strong><br /><br /><span style="color:#cc66cc;"><span style="color:#cc33cc;">Frankly, I think the whole "pink thing" has gotten out of hand. Pink bibles? Who thought up this idea in the first place? Breast cancer "awareness" does nothing unless there are actions and money (research, education, and screening availability) behind the sea of pink. I think the pink ribbon craze has certainly done a good job of increasing awareness, and no doubt lives have been saved, but I also think we're on the brink of becoming desensitized to the message because of "pink" overload.<br /><br />Did anyone at Lifeway not realize the ties between Komen and Planned Parenthood? It's not exactly a secret. It's kind of ironic that "evil bloggers" seem to have been responsible for bringing this information to Lifeway's attention.<br /><br />Are Southern Baptists going to stop buying soup and all the other pink-labeled products we see every fall? Because... as we all know, a portion of the price of every can of pink-labeled Campbells soup, every pink bottle of laundry detergent, and every pink-ribbon-adorned doodad sold goes to Komen.<br /><br />And did you know that men with breast cancer -- about 1-2% of all diagnosed cases -- are</span> </span></strong><a href="http://gawker.com/5828542/man-with-breast-cancer-denied-medicaid-coverage"><strong>discriminated against</strong></a><strong><span style="color:#cc33cc;"> in the health care system?<br /><br />I'm surprised the Southern Baptists aren't screaming about <i>that</i>. Except, of course, in their world "real" men probably don't get breast cancer. Can you imagine some "manly man" megachurch pastor like Steve Gaines or Mark Driscoll developing breast cancer? The humiliation!<br /><br />So now I guess the problem becomes what to do with 25,000+ pink bibles.</span></strong>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-64115762839996744372011-12-15T22:05:00.003-06:002011-12-16T22:18:44.074-06:00Third Warrant Issued for Sammy Nuckolls<div></div><br /><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mwI8zNOlQVo/TurEluCabyI/AAAAAAAABFM/-fccxamB6l4/s1600/Sammy%2BNuckolls%2BMug%2BShot.JPG"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 240px; height: 226px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mwI8zNOlQVo/TurEluCabyI/AAAAAAAABFM/-fccxamB6l4/s400/Sammy%2BNuckolls%2BMug%2BShot.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5686573631801028386" /></a><br /><b>This one in Waldron, Arkansas...</b><br /><br /><a href="http://www.wmctv.com/story/16336259/travelling-preacher-accused-of-voyeurism-faces-new-charges">WMC-TV >> Charges in 3rd city filed against traveling preacher from Olive Branch</a>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-11427856985798808602011-11-10T09:10:00.021-06:002011-11-26T23:58:04.413-06:00Al Mohler Wakes Up... Finally!<div></div><br /><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ubZpyaj79-M/TrxaO9MBffI/AAAAAAAABEo/iGjZXbwL1pQ/s1600/Al%2BMohler%2B01.jpg"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 300px; height: 400px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ubZpyaj79-M/TrxaO9MBffI/AAAAAAAABEo/iGjZXbwL1pQ/s400/Al%2BMohler%2B01.jpg" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5673508843569642994" /></a><br />R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of the flagship Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, has written a good <A href="http://www.albertmohler.com/2011/11/10/the-tragic-lessons-of-penn-state-a-call-to-action">article</A> about lessons Southern Baptists can learn from the firing of Penn State's Joe Paterno and president Graham Spanier and the arrest of former assistant coach and perpetrator, Jerry Sandusky, as well as the indictments of the former AD, Tim Curley, and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business, Gary Schultz. Heads have most certainly rolled at Penn State this week. The grand jury's findings can be read in full <A href="http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf">here</A>.<br /><br />Mohler concludes, "The detonation of the Penn State scandal must shake the entire nation into a new moral awareness. Any failure to report and to stop the sexual abuse of children must be made inconceivable."<br /><br />Are you just now realizing this, Dr. Mohler? Or did the worldwide reporting of such a large scandal at a big-name university involving a legendary coach force you to no longer be able to remain silent?<br /><br />Mohler continues: <I>Sometimes Christians are reluctant to report suspected sexual abuse because they do not feel that they know enough about the situation. They are afraid of making a false accusation. This is the wrong instinct. We do not have the ability to conduct the kind of investigation that is needed, nor is this assigned to the church. This is the function of government as instituted by God (Romans 13). Waiting for further information allows a predator to continue and puts children at risk. This is itself an immoral act that needs to be seen for what it is.</I><br /><br />There's a lot of truth in that paragraph, but actually, Dr. Mohler, it's an <I>illegal</I> act not to report. Let's stop sugar-coating premeditated crimes by calling them "moral failures" or "sins" or merely "mistakes." (See Sammy Nuckolls.) Many times, as with the Penn State story, they're a lot more concerned with protecting "the brand" or some good old boy's job or career than they are with making a false accusation or the protection of children.<br /><br /><I>A Christian hearing a report of sexual abuse within a church, Christian organization, or Christian school, needs to act in exactly the same manner called for if the abuse is reported in any other context. The church and Christian organizations must not become safe places for abusers.</I><br /><br />News flash! That ship has sailed. The church and "Christian" organizations already are safe havens for abusers! It's the blatant lack of accountability, trust in "men of God" just because they say they're "called by God" and can quote scripture and toss out spiritual sound bites, and the unwillingness by church leadership to report abuse or suspicion thereof to the authorities and their congregations that have resulted in churches being safe havens for these perverts for years. (<a href="http://watchkeep.blogspot.com/2011/10/whats-at-stake-protecting-and.html">Another one</a> from Bellevue's past has recently come to light, and a lot of people apparently knew about him. One former staffer was quoted as saying they knew this guy was a "pedophile" for years but no one was willing to contact authorities.) Will Mohler publicly (or privately) criticize church leaders who are guilty of covering for <I>confessed</I> child molesters? Or will he continue to speak at their churches and invite them to speak at SBTS chapel services? Mohler spoke at Bellevue as recently as June of this year.<br /><br /><br /><OBJECT class=BLOG_video_class id=BLOG_video-854b2e2831c7ccd7 height=332 width=400 contentId="854b2e2831c7ccd7"></OBJECT><br /><br /><br /><A href="http://www.sbts.edu/resources/chapel/by-the-mercy-of-god-we-endure-light-momentary-affliction">Greg Belser</A>, who covered for John Langworthy, spoke to SBTS students and faculty at their October 25th chapel service.<br /><br /><I>Any report of sexual abuse must lead immediately to action. That action cannot fall short of contacting law enforcement authorities. A clear lesson of the Penn State scandal is this: Internal reporting is simply not enough.</I><br /><br />Again, it's taken the Penn State scandal to clarify this for you?<br /><br /><I>After law enforcement authorities have been notified, the church must conduct its own work of pastoral ministry, care, and church discipline. This is the church’s responsibility and charge. But these essential Christian ministries and responsibilities are not substitutes for the proper function of law enforcement authorities and the legal system. As Christians, we respect those authorities because we are commanded to do so.</I><br /><br />Yes! Amen! GLO ree! Thank you! It's about time! But why is a man of Mohler's impressive credentials just now seeming to grasp this concept when most of the sheeple in the pews and, for that matter, "the world," haven't had to pause for one second to consider what to do in a situation like this?<br /><br />The other day Mohler decided to crack open the policy handbook for the institution he's headed for almost 19 years and discovered that the seminary's policy on reporting of any sexual abuse, even that of a child, could have conceivably led to another Penn State situation. Oops! Dodged a bullet there, didn't we?<br /><br /><I>I discovered yesterday that the policy handbook of the institution I am proud to lead calls for any employee receiving a report of child abuse, including child sexual abuse, to contact his or her supervisor with that report. That changes today. The new policy statement will direct employees receiving such a report to contact law enforcement authorities without delay. Then, after acting in the interests of the child, they should contact their supervisor.</I><br /><br />While I applaud Mohler for finally educating himself on his school's policies and changing the policy immediately... better late than never as they say, with all the publicity in recent years about the numerous cases of sexual abuse, often involving children, within Southern Baptist churches, I can only wonder why it took a story on the scale of the Penn State scandal to awaken Mohler.<br /><br /><A href="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/">Christa Brown</A>, <A href="http://www.snapnetwork.org/">SNAP representatives</A>, and others have been trying to get the attention of Southern Baptists for years only to be at best ignored and many times demonized, maybe not by Mohler himself (he seems to have remained silent) but by many of his peers. <A href="http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=8817">Frank Page</A> described some who speak out against clergy sex abuse "opportunistic persons who are seeking to raise opportunities for personal gain." Did Dr. Mohler ever renounce Frank Page's statement? Paige Patterson called them <a href="http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=12262">evil-doers</a>. Did Dr. Mohler call him out? All I heard was crickets.<br /><br />FBC Jax Watchdog has written a good series of articles on the Penn State story:<br /><br /><a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/11/at-least-in-college-football-failing-to.html">At Least in College Football, Failing to Report a Molester Is a Crime - But How Does Joe Paterno Still Have a Job?</a><br /><br /><a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/11/ugly-truth-about-joe-paterno-and.html">The Ugly Truth About Joe Paterno and the Sandusky Rape of 10 Year Old - And What We Can Learn From It</a><br /><br /><a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/11/paterno-out-legendary-football-coach-is.html">Paterno Out: A Legendary Football Coach is Held Accountable for Turning Blind Eye Toward a Pervert</a><br /><br /><br /><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RdXFSQoWaEM/TrxfW9jxznI/AAAAAAAABFA/G-iMgb3bKyA/s1600/Al%2BMohler%2B02a.JPG"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 250px; height: 250px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RdXFSQoWaEM/TrxfW9jxznI/AAAAAAAABFA/G-iMgb3bKyA/s400/Al%2BMohler%2B02a.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5673514478666370674" /></a><br />Let's see what happens now.<br /><br />1. Will Al Mohler have the courage to reintroduce the <A href="http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6640/53">motion Wade Burleson proposed at the 2007 SBC</A>?<br /><br />2. Will he lead the rally to support Burleson or another messenger who proposes a similar motion in 2012?<br /><br />3. Will Mohler now implement mandatory training for all seminary students in how to handle any knowledge or even suspicion of sexual abuse? (This shouldn't be "uncharted waters," but apparently it still is for many, including seasoned pastors.)<br /><br />4. Will he publicly rebuke Southern Baptist "ministers" who are caught committing these <i>crimes</i>? Not to publicly humiliate them but to warn people about these wolves. Or will he continue merrily on with his CBMW agenda warning against the evils of women teaching men, not submitting to their husbands, and young people not getting married as soon as possible and popping out as many babies as nature allows? <br /><br />5. Will he now begin to publicly rebuke Southern Baptist pastors who knowingly cover for <I>confessed</I> child molesters? Or will he continue to bring them in to speak in chapel services and fill the pulpits of their churches? The "elite" among the SBC seem to think they're "appointed by God." Someone needs to explain to them that while they <i>may</i> be called by God to preach, they are <i>hired by people</i> to perform a job. Otherwise they wouldn't be so concerned about their salaries (and keeping them a secret).<br /><br /><A href="http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=24220">This 2006 BP article</A> illustrates this point precisely. Translation: We are appointed by God, we are being "persecuted" because we are "God's men," and you are to overlook any wrongdoing by us "men of God" because we are... "appointed by God." You can't touch us. Just shut up, grab a broom, and help us sweep it all under the rug.<br /><br />As <A href="http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6916/53">David Clohessy, national director of SNAP</A> said, "It's easy to <I>say</I> stuff; harder to <I>do</I> stuff." So will Mohler now "do stuff" or will a change to the handbook, which apparently even the president himself hadn't read until this week, be Mohler's only response? Come on, Al. Do the right thing! Don't just say stuff, DO STUFF!<br /><br /><b>November 18th update</b>:<br /><br />We're making progress...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.albertmohler.com/2011/11/18/my-letter-to-the-southern-seminary-community-our-duty-to-report">AlbertMohler.com >> My Letter to the Southern Seminary Community: Our Duty to Report</a>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com29tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-86845701350229253412011-11-06T17:27:00.016-06:002014-08-25T21:07:47.948-05:00Be Joyful! (But only when I say you can.)<div></div><br /><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-t-BO7wZ1Q4w/TrdL5WZfmeI/AAAAAAAABEQ/M_keIz2zW_w/s1600/Steve%2BRaising%2BHands.JPG"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5672085704333564386" style="DISPLAY: block; MARGIN: 0px auto 10px; WIDTH: 400px; CURSOR: hand; HEIGHT: 224px; TEXT-ALIGN: center" alt="" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-t-BO7wZ1Q4w/TrdL5WZfmeI/AAAAAAAABEQ/M_keIz2zW_w/s400/Steve%2BRaising%2BHands.JPG" border="0" /></a><br />JOY. That was today's sermon topic. Well, actually the sermon was entitled "Are You a Friend of God?" I've always thought that whole "friend of God" thing borders on sacrilege or at the least seems somewhat simplistic and man-centered. (The song <i>I Am a Friend of God</i> has been described "like a song that a kindergartner would sing. It makes God seem like our pal Jake that we hang out with at McDonald's.")<br /><br />Still, bear in mind that great emphasis was placed on the expression of "joy" in today's sermon.<br /><br />Steve told <a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v235092528Wr8TH9w">the story</a> (for about the hundredth time) about how he learned to "lift holy hands" while in college. He's not telling you that you <i>have</i> to lift your hands when you worship, but it <i>is</i> in the Bible, so draw your own conclusions about his feelings on the subject.<br /><br />He then explained <a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v23510200w6Frc64E">why Christians should be joyful</a> and not go around with clouds over their heads.<br /><br />Then <a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v23510512Hg33562f">he burst into song</a>. This has become an almost weekly tradition.<br /><br />Finally, nearing the end of his sermon... somewhere near the conclusion of point 6 of 7... there was a disturbance. During a pause a woman off camera began shouting. I don't believe it's racist to acknowledge that the woman was very likely black, a detail which is irrelevant other than to offer a possible explanation for the style with which she traditionally worships.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.veoh.com/watch/v23514070Yx69pGn2">Watch what happened</a>.<br /><br />Steve is always trying to reach out to and attract all races of people to Bellevue. Then the cameras zero in on every black person they can find, but there still aren't that many. There's a reason for this. Those who attend predominantly black churches typically have a different worship style from those who attend predominantly white churches. That's not criticism of any style. It's just a fact. That's probably the main reason why Sunday mornings are still the most segregated hours of the week. On a positive note, we are seeing many of the walls come down as evidenced by churches like First Baptist Atlanta and others. In spite of trying to convince people otherwise, Bellevue isn't quite there yet.<br /><br />Last Sunday <a href="http://video-de.tomshardware.com/video/iLyROoaf2-QF.html">he ranted</a> (again) about people who move because people with a different skin color than theirs move into the neighborhood, and he was all "how dare you!" about it, yet when <i>he</i> moved here, he didn't move <i>his</i> family to an inner city or "minority" neighborhood. Does he really think people moved out of, say, Frayser because people with a different skin color moved in? Or could it be because they got tired of hearing gunshots every night? Steve's neighborhood isn't gated (I'm surprised), but his house is on a quiet cul-de-sac in a very nice upscale neighborhood outside the Memphis city limits. (The significance of that, among other things, is he doesn't have to pay Memphis city taxes which account for about half the tax bill for people who live inside the city limits or in annexed areas.) If you think about it, moving Bellevue from inner-city Memphis to Cordova 20+ years ago was motivated in great part by "white flight."<br /><br />And yet he wants to criticize city council for considering certain ordinances. If you're not paying Memphis city taxes, should you really have a say in how the city of Memphis does things? He criticized people for not wanting their kids to go to public school with "those people" (his words) while he sent <i>his</i> to private, lily-white ECS. When he got only a smattering of applause, he remarked that wasn't a very big hand. Maybe that's because most of the audience grasped the hypocrisy in what they'd just heard.<br /><br />Things backfired this morning in the 11:00 service. After half an hour of being encouraged to be joyful(!), to praise God by "lifting holy hands," and a rousing rendition (solo by Steve) of <i>What a Day That Will Be</i>, a lady in the audience apparently could hold it in no longer and shouted, "GLO ree! GLO ree!! GLO ree!!! THANK YA, LORD! THANK YA!! THANK YA!!!" {then something muffled}<br /><br />Steve stopped (you could practically hear the whir of the hamster wheel) and said, "Amen. If you will... just a second. Let me say this. I appreciate your... I appreciate your joy... but I'm speaking right now, and the Holy Spirit's speaking through me and He never interrupts Himself. So let me finish my sermon and then you can have joy, okay? Thank you.<br /><br />"Number 7............. amen? Everybody okay? {muffled audience response} All right... we're all... everybody's all right. Everything's cool. Nobody's... that's fine."<br /><br />"The Holy Spirit's speaking through me and He never interrupts Himself"? Thinks rather highly of himself, doesn't he? God spoke through a donkey, too. What's the point? Maybe the Holy Spirit was speaking through the lady!<br /><br />What does he expect? That's how the people in many predominantly black churches worship! They're enthusiastic, they constantly respond to the preacher during the sermon, and they aren't by any stretch of the imagination, quiet. Steve rebukes people if they don't clap or say "amen" at the right time. Then he devotes an entire sermon to being joyful, lifting "holy" hands, and expressing that joy, encouraging "amens" and applause at just the right moments, but when one woman doesn't follow the script... bam! Sit down and shut up! After being publicly called out, do you think that woman will ever darken the door of Bellevue Baptist Church again? Not only will she not ever come back, she's going to tell ALL her friends what happened, too. Nice job lo♥ing Memphis, Steve.<br /><br />If that woman today hadn't gotten wound up before then (it <i>was</i> near the end) she probably wasn't going to get any louder. Like one would try to tune out a crying child, he could have just ignored her and kept going and there probably wouldn't have been another outburst, but she didn't shout "Glory!" on cue, and we can't have that. Remember "Amen Kelly" and the dream? (Whatever happened to him anyway?) He had to be dealt with because he was interrupting Steve's train of thought.<br /><br />Hey, I'm not unsympathetic here. I recall a lady (who shall remain nameless) whose "amens" used to interrupt my train of thought on a regular basis. Anyone who's heard her will likely know who it is. She was always so loud, so constant, and so predictable... two "amens" with the same emphasis on the syllables... "a MEN! A... men!" after almost every sentence that came out of the preacher's mouth. And yet... I don't recall Steve ever requesting <i>she</i> tone it down a few notches. Considering who she's married to, he wouldn't <i>dare</i>!<br /><br />You could see "lifted hands" at the bottom of the screen during part of his sermon this morning. Why didn't he chastise <i>them</i>? Well, those did look like white hands. Maybe big tithers or children of big tithers? Hmmm.<br /><br />Oh, and this seems to be the new Sunday 11:00 a.m. look now.<br /><br /><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AftV2Yv0TvY/TrdQs2oom9I/AAAAAAAABEc/xs_-6MueXwo/s1600/Bellevue%2BVideo%2B2011-10-30%2B01.JPG"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 224px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-AftV2Yv0TvY/TrdQs2oom9I/AAAAAAAABEc/xs_-6MueXwo/s400/Bellevue%2BVideo%2B2011-10-30%2B01.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5672090987206843346" /></a>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com19tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-47349348466538859332011-11-02T21:44:00.006-05:002011-11-03T19:14:38.672-05:00Lifeway Makes Statement Regarding Sammy Nuckolls<div></div><br /><b>Lifeway has issued a <a href="http://www2.lifeway.com/fuge/index.php/pages/news/">statement</a> regarding Sammy Nuckolls. It took almost a week after all traces of their former relationship with him was scrubbed from the internet for them to issue this statement, but better late than never. I applaud Lifeway for finally addressing this issue.<br /><br />On FBC Jax Watchdog's blog <a href="http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/11/sammy-nuckolls-appears-in-court-he-must.html?showComment=1320267782579#c3379223171639042771">Jim</a> pointed out the elephant in the room when he wrote, "Lifeway would have done an immense amount of good if they had added to the statement about no evidence of illicit activity by Nuckolls at FUGE camp: "However, we will contact every church or group that attended camp when Nuckolls was camp pastor and encourage campers and leaders who suspect they may have been victims, to come forward." Still, I'm glad Lifeway made a statement.</b><br /><br /><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eyMpJfcimBo/TrIEJhrdUYI/AAAAAAAABD4/zVwB520OUEo/s1600/Lifeway%2BFuge%2BStatement%2Bre%2BSammy%2BNuckolls.JPG"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 186px; height: 400px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eyMpJfcimBo/TrIEJhrdUYI/AAAAAAAABD4/zVwB520OUEo/s400/Lifeway%2BFuge%2BStatement%2Bre%2BSammy%2BNuckolls.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5670599442518856066" /></a>New BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com5