tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post5639199006321809237..comments2023-08-29T04:23:57.598-05:00Comments on New BBC Open Forum: The Legacy of Paige Patterson and Paul PresslerNew BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-32871936557854098822008-10-27T17:46:00.000-05:002008-10-27T17:46:00.000-05:00PP and other righteous thinking controlers are sca...PP and other righteous thinking controlers are scared to have an open and honest discussion about almost any issue that could take away from their power base. If women were accepted as having a gift to teach or even learn, that would be a blow to "male-power". This is so silly to me that I believe these guys must use an electric razor to shave by because they certainly shgould have trouble facing themselves in the mirror.bigdipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04496439351929293292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-83713612721512132052008-07-28T23:48:00.000-05:002008-07-28T23:48:00.000-05:00THERE'S A NEW THREAD! TURN UP YOUR SOUND AND GET ...THERE'S A NEW THREAD! TURN UP YOUR SOUND AND GET READY TO BOOGIE!<BR/><BR/>Thank you,<BR/><BR/>NBBCOFNew BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-39754418652349252172008-07-28T23:44:00.000-05:002008-07-28T23:44:00.000-05:00Interesting question. Let's be clear that no one ...Interesting question. Let's be clear that no one is accusing either PP or PP of any impropriety. Not sure their "legacy" has a lot to do with it though -- except their legacy of covering for these perverts. I think people are becoming more aware of the problem, and they're speaking out more often. Also, the internet has made the dissemination of this sort of information much easier. Clergy sexual abuse isn't new. We're just hearing about it a lot more.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-21639431283152561302008-07-28T22:10:00.000-05:002008-07-28T22:10:00.000-05:00oc said... Honest question. Is the sexual ab...oc said...<BR/><BR/> Honest question.<BR/> Is the sexual abuse by ministers in the SBC either directly or indirectly related to the legacy of Patterson and Pressler?<BR/><BR/> 9:20 PM, July 28, 2008<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure about Pressler, but there were reports a while back where Paige Patterson turned a blind eye to accusations against Darrell Gilyard.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09152004759314227440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-23584800385349415502008-07-28T21:20:00.000-05:002008-07-28T21:20:00.000-05:00Honest question.Is the sexual abuse by ministers i...Honest question.<BR/>Is the sexual abuse by ministers in the SBC either directly or indirectly related to the legacy of Patterson and Pressler?ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-30548928986618709812008-07-27T14:11:00.000-05:002008-07-27T14:11:00.000-05:00Related story.<A HREF="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2008/07/kudos-to-ben.html" REL="nofollow">Related story</A>.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-57299196121462620722008-07-27T14:08:00.000-05:002008-07-27T14:08:00.000-05:00Please read if you'd like your voice to be heard.<A HREF="http://www.newbbc.accura.net/GeorgeLoweflyer.doc" REL="nofollow">Please read</A> if you'd like your voice to be heard.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-13265487563053667262008-07-26T20:16:00.000-05:002008-07-26T20:16:00.000-05:00oc said... Just a random thought. Listen. To...oc said...<BR/><BR/> Just a random thought.<BR/><BR/> Listen. To you. And to those who do have their 'stuff' together. And to that Buddhist "renegade" that we all have loved. And even to someone like me, who fails time and time again and should know better by now, yet stumbles and falls and scrapes his knees time and time again,(I wish I could say that my bloody knees are because of fervent prayer) and hurts his friends, and knows he deserves nothing but wrath. All of them, all of us, me, every single one;...<BR/><BR/> have been made in the image of God.<BR/> And to me, that means that there is at least something there in each that is worth loving. And forgiving.<BR/><BR/> Just some ramblin' thoughts.<BR/> oc.<BR/><BR/> 7:58 PM, July 25, 2008<BR/><BR/><BR/>Amen.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09152004759314227440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-12843498344916546112008-07-25T20:46:00.001-05:002008-07-25T20:46:00.001-05:00The saddest thing is on NBC. Children for sale...i...The saddest thing is on NBC. Children for sale...in Cambodia. Little baby girls...many 10 years old..some only 8.<BR/> Mothers and young boys are the pimps. They are babies. Tiny skinny babies. <BR/>I feel sick...worse than sick. We aren't human anymore.gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-21549499964035161692008-07-25T19:58:00.000-05:002008-07-25T19:58:00.000-05:00Just a random thought.Listen. To you. And to those...Just a random thought.<BR/><BR/>Listen. To you. And to those who do have their 'stuff' together. And to that Buddhist "renegade" that we all have loved. And even to someone like me, who fails time and time again and should know better by now, yet stumbles and falls and scrapes his knees time and time again,(I wish I could say that my bloody knees are because of fervent prayer) and hurts his friends, and knows he deserves nothing but wrath. All of them, all of us, me, every single one;...<BR/><BR/>have been made in the image of God.<BR/>And to me, that means that there is at least something there in each that is worth loving. And forgiving. <BR/><BR/>Just some ramblin' thoughts.<BR/>oc.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-10011319152034840502008-07-25T16:27:00.000-05:002008-07-25T16:27:00.000-05:00I saw it. But as my soul did at that time, and as ...I saw it. But as my soul did at that time, and as it still does yet...<BR/>It screams against it, in shear disgust and wanting to be in denial that any man can do such to another who is made in the image of God. <BR/><BR/>God forgive us.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-74945641456488103762008-07-25T15:42:00.000-05:002008-07-25T15:42:00.000-05:00I refer you back to this thread.I refer you back to this <A HREF="http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/2007/01/rachels-story-risk-of-ignoring-moral.html" REL="nofollow">thread</A>.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-67333653585990710402008-07-25T15:26:00.000-05:002008-07-25T15:26:00.000-05:00This is more than sad. Our kids are not even safe ...This is more than sad. Our kids are not even safe with the youth minister. Not even safe within the church building. Man, and that's the only place I ever thought our kids were safe. No longer.<BR/><BR/>How much sadder can this get?<BR/>The blurring of the world and the Church. It makes me mad. Now we it seems we can no longer expect a difference between the two, and we have to protect our kids in the bathrooms of our "sanctuaries".<BR/>Sanctuary? My a**.<BR/><BR/>It's too bizarre to contemplate. It's too much for me to accept.<BR/><BR/>This is NOT what God intended.<BR/>He's gagging and puking at every instance. All Hell is breaking loose and Satan laughs while we twiddle our thumbs and wish it wasn't so.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-7177462560496738592008-07-25T13:43:00.000-05:002008-07-25T13:43:00.000-05:00Preach it to us, sister!!!Amen!For a single mom wi...Preach it to us, sister!!!<BR/>Amen!<BR/><BR/>For a single mom with a male child who is too old to go in the ladies room but too young to go alone into the men's(old enough is when they have muscles and maturity)...here's what I did.<BR/> I stood at the men;s room door with my foot holding open the door and I talked to my son the entire time. I explained and he understood that I had to keep him safe. <BR/>I saw a few things I would rather not have seen and it was a tad embarrassing BUT....lots better than sending them in and hoping for the best.gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-22894367646028728692008-07-25T10:47:00.000-05:002008-07-25T10:47:00.000-05:00Christa,I am so thankful for your ministry and for...Christa,<BR/><BR/>I am so thankful for your ministry and for your willingness to speak out for victims even when you are under constant attack. I have never been victimized in this way but it could have happened to me. My youth group had a pedophile on staff as youth minister. He was the nicest guy you could ever meet. He had a sweet wife with a horrible disease that didn't have a cure. He was always grinning and smiling. I loved him so much. I was very shy when I was in high school (blog friends will be shocked by this!) and it was because of him that I finally came out of my shell. For whatever reason, he never bothered me. I had a very close relationship with my parents and they had very watchful eyes. I had my own car so I never needed a ride home. Others were not so fortunate. Finally the girls began to speak out and as far as I can remember the church was told by the police to get rid of him or they would run him out of town. I don't suppose anyone ever thought of locking him up. I was so completely deceived that I didn't believe these stories until years later and I even wrote letters back and forth with him when I was in college. He never said anything at all even then that would lead me to believe he was that kind of person. Do not ever think you cannot be deceived!!!! I cringe when I see parents letting their young children go by themselves from the sanctuary into the main foyer down a hallway to a secluded bathroom. I have been so tempted to leave the service myself and go watch out for them. It scares me to no end. Someone was telling me that security at BBC had told them pedophiles regularly watch the kids on the ballfields. Now that many of the children have moved over to Faith they are now watching them over there. PLEASE parents - WAKE UP!!!! Your children are not safe in public bathrooms. They are not safe in public places. I don't believe in telling kids so much that you will scare them to death but you do need to talk to your kids on their age level about people who can harm them. You need to explain to them that people at church aren't always "good" and can also bring harm. They are never to accept candy or get into cars with anyone when parents aren't around. It is just common sense. My friend Brannon Howse (Worldview Weekends) has a young son who was with him at Barnes and Noble where gay porn was laying around for anyone to see. The manager made the mistake of telling Brannon that a child had been molested in the bathroom. This happened in Collierville, TN. Now Brannon is hearing from people all over the country that these kinds of things are happening to their children at bookstores. They are innocently looking at something in the children's area and they "happen" across gay porn. Brannon has mounted a huge campaign against Barnes and Noble because of what happened to his son and others. We need to stop thinking these things just happen to others and realize it is happening all around us. It is your job to protect your kids!!!!! The SBC is not going to protect them and neither will the government. All we can do is put pressure on the SBC but they have shown no desire to change things. Apparently there are not many pastors whose own children or grandchildren have been molested. If that were the case, I think you would see more of an uprising.bowthekneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17667402123182844452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-87053334610198232902008-07-24T20:05:00.000-05:002008-07-24T20:05:00.000-05:00It should be noted that this story has made nation...It should be noted that this story has made national news. In fact, several internet privacy groups have gotten into the fray, including the Electronic Frontier Foundation.Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09152004759314227440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-52580024999992718092008-07-24T19:57:00.000-05:002008-07-24T19:57:00.000-05:00Story here.Story <A HREF="http://www.wmctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8715404" REL="nofollow">here</A>.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-39176668913895550222008-07-24T18:16:00.000-05:002008-07-24T18:16:00.000-05:00So, the city of Memphis and the police director ha...So, the city of Memphis and the police director have filed a lawsuit to uncover the identities of those who are operating a blog that is apparently bashing the politics and management of the police department.<BR/><BR/>NASS, guess you should watch out! Steve Gaines and Jim Barnwell are going to be filing the next lawsuit against you, if there is a legal precedent! <BR/><BR/>Seriously, though, it seems that free speech is once again under attack, even here in America.Scionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15045243583883022894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-58643886203495318692008-07-24T15:02:00.000-05:002008-07-24T15:02:00.000-05:00Christa,You make good points. In the end, it matte...Christa,<BR/>You make good points. In the end, it matters no so much that someone claims to believe in the inerrancy and absolute authority of the Bible as whether they actually live like they believe it. It's easier to talk about truth propositionally than it is to live the truth practically. <BR/><BR/>I think that's why the Bible says "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers." Anybody can say that they love God and there is no way to look into their hearts, but all can see how we treat others.Junksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14422651080120306816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-59842437333363737162008-07-24T10:45:00.000-05:002008-07-24T10:45:00.000-05:00I don't have any doubt that much power-mongering h...I don't have any doubt that much power-mongering harm was inflicted on a lot of good people by the 2 PPs. But when it comes to effectively addressing clergy sex abuse, the so-called moderates are just as blind-eyed. The Baptist General Convention of Texas is considered a moderate state convention (one of just a few) and yet it has a terrible track record on this. [My most recent blog on it is <A HREF="http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/2008/06/no-basis-for-bgct-brag.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.]<BR/><BR/>Many people have told me that I should back off on the BGCT because, after all, they're the "good guys" - meaning they're the moderates. But if they're turning a deaf ear to abuse survivors, leaving predators in pulpits, and not warning people in the pews, what difference does it make whether they label themselves "moderate" or "conservative"? Either way, more kids get hurt, stupefying silence is perpetuated, and predators keep preaching.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps leaders at the BGCT are sometimes better at using a softer tone with abuse survivors. But duplicity and harm can be accomplished just as easily with a smooth, buttery, pastoral voice as with a harsh, hateful voice. <BR/><BR/>The question is always: What are they actually doing? When you look at it from that perspective, clergy sex abuse may be the one issue on which so-called conservatives and moderates are aligned. Isn't that sad?Christa Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04560409585720043015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-64670643575734029322008-07-23T21:57:00.000-05:002008-07-23T21:57:00.000-05:00I don't know what the moderates/liberals did befor...I don't know what the moderates/liberals did before the CR took over..I REALLY wasn't aware of how the SBC worked then.<BR/><BR/> There is a lot of information that indicates there was manipulative planning by the PP group. At the very least they strongly assisted the democratic process.<BR/><BR/>This is my opinion, of course, based on hours and hours of reading.<BR/><BR/>However it was accomplished....the Paige Patterson group has NOT responded properly to clergy sexual abuse...to say the least!!gmommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713588262748876624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-82809795935910597062008-07-23T21:02:00.000-05:002008-07-23T21:02:00.000-05:00New BBC Open Forum said... "Truth is, the problem ...<I>New BBC Open Forum said... <BR/>"Truth is, the problem wasn't with the CR, its principles, or even how it was accomplished."<BR/><BR/>No, it wasn't the CR itself. It was the power-hungry people who led it. </I><BR/><BR/>I don't think that's correct, either. The CR can't be separated from those who led it, and the reason for the CR was not to grab power for power's sake; it was to address serious problems that needed to be corrected. And the most effective and appropriate way to do so was to use the SBC's already defined political processes. Unfortunately, the problem with gaining power when you previously didn't have it is that you then have to live with power's corrupting influence. Power tends to bring out the worst in most people.<BR/><BR/><I>And how it was accomplished is a big problem in my book. Dirty politics is dirty politics regardless of which "side" employs the tactics thereof. The ends don't always justify the means.</I><BR/><BR/>For the most part it was accomplished by simple democratic processes, with the majority of Southern Baptists supporting those who wanted to move the denomination's schools and agencies into better alignment with the beliefs of most Southern Baptists. Yes, some wrongs were done, and wrong is wrong, no matter what the motive. But the moderates/liberals, who held power for decades prior to the CR, seem to want to portray themselves as innocents and conservatives as wicked. In reality, the abuse of power by conservatives was (and is) not greater than that seen when moderates/liberals were in power. The moderates/liberals did as much to shut out and silence conservatives prior to the CR as was done to moderates/liberals by conservatives as part of the CR. I'm not excusing anyone's wrong behavior, just saying that those who lost power and now stand in criticism of the CR have their own agenda, and they aren't the innocent victims they like to portray themselves as.<BR/><BR/>I also think that the phrase "dirty politics" may be a redundancy, kinda like saying "tooth dentist". :)Junksterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14422651080120306816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-74522660353665239322008-07-23T20:37:00.000-05:002008-07-23T20:37:00.000-05:00But I'll be forever grateful.And I'll wonder and b...But I'll be forever grateful.<BR/>And I'll wonder and be amazed forever that He did what He did for who He did.<BR/><BR/>oc.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-28722799251148066112008-07-23T19:58:00.000-05:002008-07-23T19:58:00.000-05:00You know I'm looking at these extreme idiots who d...You know I'm looking at these extreme idiots who deserve the "Darwin Awards", and I laugh, some of that stuff is just awesomely stupid!... <BR/><BR/> Then I look at myself, under the gaze of God, and I see myself being the biggest award winner ever. <BR/><BR/>Why would He ever send His Son to die for this????<BR/>I'll never understand.<BR/>oc.ochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00910693449008506409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-41750601263879472842008-07-23T18:51:00.000-05:002008-07-23T18:51:00.000-05:00More Darwin Award honorable mentions:According to ...More Darwin Award honorable mentions:<BR/><BR/>According to police in Windsor, Ontario, Daniel Kolta, 27, and Randy Taylor, 33, died in a head-on collision, thus earning a tie in the game of chicken they were playing with their snowmobiles.<BR/><BR/>In Detroit, a 41-year-old man got stuck and drowned in two feet of water after squeezing head first through an 18-inch-wide sewer grate to retrieve his car keys.<BR/><BR/>A 49-year-old San Francisco stockbroker, who "totally zoned when he ran," accidentally jogged off a 100-foot-high cliff on his daily run.<BR/><BR/>In Buston, NC, a man died on a beach when an 8-foot-deep hole he had dug into the sand caved in as he sat inside it. Beach goers said Daniel Jones, 21, dug the hole for fun, or protection from the wind, and had been sitting in a beach chair at the bottom Thursday afternoon when it collapsed, burying him beneath five feet of sand. People on the beach, on the outer banks, used their hands and shovels, trying to claw their way to Jones, a resident of Woodbridge, VA, but could not reach him. It took rescue workers using heavy equipment almost an hour to free him while about 200 people looked on. Jones was pronounced dead at a hospital.<BR/><BR/>Santiago Alvarado, 24, was killed in Lompoc, CA, as he fell face-first through the ceiling of bicycle shop he was burglarizing. Death was caused when the long flashlight he had placed in his mouth (to keep his hands free) rammed into the base of his skull as he hit the floor.<BR/><BR/>According to police in Dahlonega, GA, ROTC cadet Nick Berrena, 20, was stabbed to death in January by fellow cadet Jeffrey Hoffman, 23,who was trying to prove that a knife could not penetrate the flak vest Berrena was wearing.<BR/><BR/>Sylvester Briddell, Jr., 26, was killed in Selbyville, Delaware as he won a bet with friends who said he would not put a revolver loaded with four bullets into his mouth and pull the trigger.<BR/><BR/>In Guthrie, OK, in October, Jason Heck tried to kill a millipede with a shot from his .22 caliber rifle, but the bullet ricocheted off a rock near the hole and hit pal Antonio Martinez in the head, fracturing his skull.<BR/><BR/>In Elyria, Ohio, in October, Martyn Eskins, attempting to clean out cobwebs in his basement, declined to use a broom in favor of a propane torch and caused a fire that burned the first and second floors of his house.<BR/><BR/>Paul Stiller, 47, was hospitalized in Andover Township, NJ, and his wife Bonnie was also injured, when a quarter-stick of dynamite blew up in their car. While driving around at 2:00 am, the bored couple lit the dynamite and tried to toss it out the window to see what would happen but apparently failed to notice the window was closed.<BR/><BR/>RUNNER UP:<BR/><BR/>Tacoma, WA Kerry Bingham had been drinking with several friends when one of them said they knew a person who had bungee-jumped from the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in the middle of traffic. The conversation grew more heated and at least 10 men trooped along the walkway of the bridge at 4:30 am. Upon arrival at the midpoint of the bridge they discovered that no one had brought a bungee rope. Bingham, who had continued drinking, volunteered and pointed out that a coil of lineman's cable lay nearby. One end of the cable was secured around Bingham's leg and the other end was tied to the bridge. His fall lasted 40 feet before the cable tightened and tore his foot off at the ankle. He miraculously survived his fall into the icy river water and was rescued by two nearby fishermen. "All I can say," said Bingham, "is that God was watching out for me on that night. There's just no other explanation for it." Bingham's foot was never located.New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.com