tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post116654342337476627..comments2023-08-29T04:23:57.598-05:00Comments on New BBC Open Forum: Other TruthsNew BBC Open Forumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comBlogger106125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1167536337014565792006-12-30T21:38:00.000-06:002006-12-30T21:38:00.000-06:00OK, I can't sit back any longer without saying som...OK, I can't sit back any longer without saying something regarding the statement "those that don't like Gaines need to leave the church". First of all I've been a member there since 1984, moved away in 1993 and came back in 2004. I came back to Memphis partly because of Bellevue. You can imagine my dismay when I heard Dr. Rogers was retiring. I learned so much from him during all my years. (Even when I was living away, I watched Love Worth Finding.) I knew it would be hard to follow a new pastor, but I knew I could as I have moved around quite a bit in those years away from Memphis and had different pastors. I was one of those that stood for Gaines when he came to the church. I was excited to have a pastor. I believed that the pastor search committee had truly prayed this man into our church. But almost immediately I found Gaines to be very arrogant and not too sure how much I could sit under his preaching. But I was going to give him a chance. Then Dr. Whitmire "retires" so Jamie can be the Minister of Music. I was excited that Jamie was coming to Memphis (I hadn't been under his direction most of his time at Bellevue). But he apparently had been with Gaines too long...he and his wife came back "home" to Bellevue with the same arrogance. I went to the first choir practice with Jamie as the minister of music and was shocked at his speech he gave his new choir. He spoke so poorly of his time at Bellevue and Rogers and sang Gaines praises...I was SHOCKED!!! I'm sure he was trying to help us know how great Gaines was, but it was done in such poor taste...I never went back. (I have been in the choir everytime the doors were opened at Bellevue (even when I lived out of Memphis and came home to visit), and in all the major productions. He stated that he had never learned how to worship in any other church he had ever been in except Gardendale with Gaines. He also stated something about not learning under another preacher except Gaines. (Now I have to wonder if Gaines put him up to it????) <BR/><BR/>For those of you that say we need to get over it, leave the church because we miss Dr. Rogers...then you aren't hearing what savingbellevue.com is doing or these other blogs!!! It isn't because of Dr. Rogers or because (as the old grandma stated) of the politics or money (I had neither, but still trusted what the church did because of her leader!) it is because of the lack of INTEGRITY!!!<BR/><BR/>Yeah Gaines had big shoes to fill, but I think he was arrogant enough to think he could fill them and more in a very short time. Gaines doesn't care about Bellevue and her integrity and history, he apparently only cares about Gaines. <BR/><BR/>Also, all of those that think he is a great preacher...anyone can read the Bible, get on the internet and get understanding about what you are reading, read commentaries, make notes and get up in front of people and preach but not mean a word of what they are preaching or live it! Look at PW for example? He pulled the wool over all our eyes! <BR/><BR/>Also, if Gaines wants to stay then he needs to confess. He is such a personable person, good personality on stage that he can say anything and people believe him. Gaines says one thing and when he lies, savingbellevue.com is there to set the facts straight. By the way, I also keep hearing that Gaines apologized personally to Whitmire...on good authority I know that isn't true. So, if Gaines will humble himself and admit his sins, then Bellevue as a church could forgive him, keep him accountable for his actions and Bellevue may be able to get back on track. I personally would like to see Gaines gone, but I can forgive and give him another chance if he sincerely and humbly apologizes.<BR/><BR/>I'm still a member at Bellevue although am assisting at another church. I'm not one of the ones that followed the others to Germantown and I don't want to go to another church, but if I have to I will as the Lord leads. I have a history with Bellevue and have been happy to say I was a member...now I'm embarrassed. I cry when I drive by the three crosses and think of the shame that has been brought to what they represent. <BR/><BR/>In much prayer for Bellevue and her leadership!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166680999884691452006-12-21T00:03:00.000-06:002006-12-21T00:03:00.000-06:00repost:Napoleon said... Is anyone familiar with th...repost:<BR/>Napoleon said... <BR/>Is anyone familiar with the "secret list" that Bellvue has maintained for the past several years? It was kept under lock and key by its caretaker Paul Williams. Anyone of any "questionable character" who became a member of Bellevue was placed on this list. Anytime an individual volunteered to serve in any capacity within the church, their name was flagged, and the caretaker (PW) unlocked his list to see what, if anything the individual had been blacklisted for. If the ministry area fell within the confines of what they had been accused of(not necessarily guilty of), then that person was not allowed to serve in that area. Any takers? <BR/><BR/>11:03 PM, December 17, 2006 <BR/><BR/>I got an email with information about a "list"... <BR/><BR/>> Would you please send this out to our class encouraging each one to pray for Bro. Steve and Bellevue. Also, encourage each person to call the church to give him their support. I was told today that they are making a list of those who call regarding their love and support for Bro. Steve. They will show this to him and hopefully, lift his heart. <BR/>> Thank you. <BR/>(name withheld)<BR/><BR/>What do you think of this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166667985177116922006-12-20T20:26:00.000-06:002006-12-20T20:26:00.000-06:00Good grief...he should be in politics.Good grief...he should be in politics.allofgracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17885273980023518290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166663783418513632006-12-20T19:16:00.000-06:002006-12-20T19:16:00.000-06:00Yep, he did. I thought for a minute he was actual...Yep, he did. I thought for a minute he was actually going to resign. He did mention that Dr. Mike had called for his resignation and then said that he would like to continue to be the pastor if that was okay. Then, the inevitable standing o. I was actually very impressed with how he handled the situation as far as not blasting Dr. Mike. Now, we will have to see if his actions match his words. I really hope so. I know that Dr. Spradlin was very upset about the article- The CA sort of ambushed him apparantly. Came to interview him about something else-then asked about Bellevue. If you know Dr. Mike, you know that he is not one to sidestep. I am thankful for that- Praying for Bellevue, etc.Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00217034085175443717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166660305474578472006-12-20T18:18:00.000-06:002006-12-20T18:18:00.000-06:00One of the news stations said that SG will address...One of the news stations said that SG will address the congregation this evening. It might be streamed on line.gopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08248697714473635198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166659947007033962006-12-20T18:12:00.000-06:002006-12-20T18:12:00.000-06:00josh stone Isn't it a little off balance to say ...josh stone Isn't it a little off balance to say you agree with sg when he says "if you people don't like it go somewhere else" ? Afterall, you are not even a member of Bellevue and sg is a new commer. You are speaking to many who have been members of Bellevue for years! Now it is no longer their chruch but they can leave because they don't agree or question the actions and words of the pastor that are deceptive or bullying or a power trip? The church does not BELONG to sg just because he is the new commer and pastor nor does it belong to you, to make such a statement. It is not up to either of you to state who can come and who cannot. or who is welcome and who is not. What arrogance!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166656878133937272006-12-20T17:21:00.000-06:002006-12-20T17:21:00.000-06:00rational said... I'm sick of people who don't u...rational said...<BR/><BR/> I'm sick of people who don't understand what they are talking about or know any facts asking for innocent goldy men to resign when there are a few other men who have done wrong.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Innocent and Godly men indeed. Surely you jest? Not 2 weeks not 2 days not 2 minutes nor 2 seconds would have passed before this man was turned into the proper authorities if SG didn't propagate a lack of integrity through-out his immediate circle. Only when SG and the people from his administration that keep up with this blog realized that this Tiger was out of the bag did they decide to take action. There is absolutely NO denying the FACT that without this BLOG there would have been no admission to the Congregation. It is clearly evident I need not offer you any proof so don't bother asking. The question is what will we do? When is as Bro Ray says "Enough" really enough? If SG doesn't resign tonight it had better be Sunday or Sunday night. The clarion call for this to happen will only build I can promise you that. The Lord's WILL will be done. SG was brought to Bellevue by God to cleanse his house. It is taking place as we speak. It is absolute and undeniable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166655118494576572006-12-20T16:51:00.000-06:002006-12-20T16:51:00.000-06:00Rational said... Miller was required to handle the...Rational said... <BR/>Miller was required to handle the way he did to protect the church for legal reasons. <BR/><BR/>1:40 PM, December 20, 2006 <BR/><BR/><BR/>As an educator, Bryan Miller was obligated to inform Child Protective Services (or whatever it's called in this town). He is bound by law to report just like day care workers, doctors, nurses, etc. I think he should know better and he didn't. He didn't pick up the phone or write an email. He just went on his merry way based on the word of the pastor and of a child molestor. Hope he can sleep at night. If I were an ECS parent, I would be concerned.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11805543641376648431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166654504927175062006-12-20T16:41:00.000-06:002006-12-20T16:41:00.000-06:00TRUTHSEEKER, I like your idea. For now you can sen...TRUTHSEEKER, <BR/><BR/>I like your idea. For now you can send your statement to Saving Bellevue. I just saw where they are posting letter of support for Dr. Spradlin.SallySherlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09450047456308052389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166653446940543322006-12-20T16:24:00.000-06:002006-12-20T16:24:00.000-06:00Article just released on Baptist Press:Bellevue's ...Article just released on Baptist Press:<BR/><BR/>Bellevue's Gaines should resign, seminary president says<BR/>Dec 20, 2006<BR/>By Staff<BR/>Baptist Press <BR/>CORDOVA, Tenn. (BP)--A call for the resignation of Bellevue Baptist Church senior pastor Steve Gaines has been voiced by the president of Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary, which has a longstanding relationship with the prominent Southern Baptist congregation.<BR/><BR/>At issue, according to comments to the Memphis Commercial Appeal by the seminary president, Michael Spradlin, is Gaines' six-month silence after learning of a sexual abuse allegation 17 years ago against a longtime Bellevue staff member.<BR/><BR/>"If Steve Gaines found out that a child had been sexually molested by one of his ministers and if he did nothing to address it, then he needs to step down immediately," the newspaper quoted Spradlin as saying in a Dec. 20 article.<BR/><BR/>"We cannot take chances with other people's children," said Spradlin, who also is interim pastor of nearby Germantown Baptist Church. "If he [Gaines] knew about this and kept quiet, then he's put Bellevue in a very dangerous position and possibly put children and the emotionally vulnerable at risk."<BR/><BR/>Gaines, in a Dec. 19 statement quoted by the newspaper, wrote: "The past few days have been difficult ones as I have worked through an issue that no pastor wishes to face. We have had to place a minister on a paid leave of absence due to a past moral failure.<BR/><BR/>"I learned about this in June from the minister involved and believed the issue was settled. Two weeks ago I was surprised to find out that the issue was not settled.<BR/><BR/>"Some people have questioned why I waited for several months," Gaines acknowledged. "It's simply this: I acted out of a heartfelt concern and compassion for this minister because the event occurred many years ago, he was receiving professional counseling; and I was concerned about confidentiality. In light of the events that have unfolded, I realize now that I should have discussed it further with this minister and brought it to the attention of our church leadership immediately."<BR/><BR/>Spradlin, in his comments to the Commercial Appeal, also referenced controversy that has buffeted Gaines since he was called as Bellevue's pastor in July 2005 succeeding Adrian Rogers, who had retired after leading the church for 32 years. Rogers died of cancer in November 2005.<BR/><BR/>"There's a sense of Steve Gaines being the measure of what's right and what's wrong," Spradlin was quoted as saying. "If you agree with him, you're right and if you disagree, you're wrong.<BR/><BR/>"But I think he's spent all his credibility and people are losing trust in him," Spradlin said.<BR/><BR/>The Commercial Appeal did not report a response from Gaines.<BR/><BR/>The newspaper identified the Bellevue staff member accused of sexual abuse 17 years ago as Paul Williams, a 34-year staffer. The newspaper did not identify his position at the 30,000-member congregation, although Bellevue's website previously listed him as minister of prayer/special projects. Williams has been placed on paid leave while an investigation of a "moral failure" is conducted, the paper reported.<BR/><BR/>Bellevue's director of communications, Jim Barnwell, told the Commercial Appeal, "I think the important thing to remember is that Steve Gaines realized he made a mistake, he's taking ownership of that and trying his best to fix it." Barnwell added, "I don't believe there was a deliberate attempt to hide anything."<BR/><BR/>Describing the investigation, the Commercial Appeal said it will include Bellevue members "and independent sources" during which "Williams will not perform any ministerial duties or be on the Bellevue campus."<BR/><BR/>Earlier this year, Gaines' brief tenure at Bellevue encountered a stormy challenge from a former deacon, Mark Sharpe, and other opponents whose accusations -- aired on the Internet and in the Commercial Appeal -- include Gaines' alleged intimidation of those who disagree with him, his alleged forcing out a popular music director and his alleged refusal to disclose his salary, which they contend is nearly $500,000.<BR/><BR/>Barnwell told Baptist Press at the time that "the allegations are simply not true," noting that "not one" former or current staff member, past deacon chairman or member of what Bellevue calls its board of directors had "broken ranks and joined the opposition."<BR/><BR/>Gaines and other church leaders devoted the Sept. 24 Sunday evening service to the controversy. Gaines told the congregation that the session was not a "business meeting," but a time for church members to receive information "from this pulpit from the leaders of this church."<BR/><BR/>Gaines, deacon chairman Chuck Taylor, Harry Smith, a longtime member of the church's finance committee, and Chip Freeman, the church's chief administrator, reportedly addressed various allegations point by point.<BR/><BR/>Compiled by Art Toalston.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166652995094019222006-12-20T16:16:00.000-06:002006-12-20T16:16:00.000-06:00James Dobson called Mike Spradlin today to offer s...James Dobson called Mike Spradlin today to offer support. Also, Mrs. Joyce Rogers has made a statement that should be on the news tonight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166647385749240232006-12-20T14:43:00.000-06:002006-12-20T14:43:00.000-06:00I have only been reading all the posts for days no...I have only been reading all the posts for days now. I am very shocked and sad for everybody they hurt and are hurting because those placed in positions of authority in BBC are doing nothing, but adding to the hurt. I already know they did not care, but I did not know they did all those things too. Now I know I am right they are capable of anything. Power and money corrupt some people. People who are control freaks and who want to hurt people always seek positions of authority, church or government. So people will trust them, and people will say no they will never do that. I don't have all the evidence people will like I just know too much. I am waiting and praying for the L-RD G-D to unveil all I believe at least 2 members are guilty of. I have been praying since some month after Jan 2003. I am not ready to say more, I am praying about saying more. One of the men is a layman he said. People at Bellevue want to support the Authority figures over there but look at what John said in the 3rd book of John.<BR/><BR/>3John 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. <BR/><BR/> 10Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. <BR/><BR/> 11Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. <BR/><BR/>What I am trying to say here is that just because one person or more does evil does not mean anyone should go along and do nothing those people did not, now he got into trouble with John, you know he dealt with him. All sin is evil, but who is repenting of those people who hurt people? BBC is the L-RD's house of prayer, not private property. But they have degraded it (BBC to that) That church building and all the property listed as BBC property and all the money is Property of our L-RD G-D and I will be praying it stays with his people, those who hate evil I know he hates all these thing mentioned. See I told you Ezekiel 34 hurts Paul W. and all those people every one of them has no rights over BBC. <BR/>BBC security men support their layman. When I say BBC is capable of anything what does that mean? Anything is Every Thing <BR/>I don't hate Bellevue, I love you all. I pray for BBC just follow G-D's commandments, for BBC to be nice to people and not hurt them, I pray BBC will be people who love with all sincerity, BBC people to be forgiving people. I pray blessing, but if there is more evil for the L-RD to even now make even if anyone even knows of evil that was done, that nothing will be left unveiled. Pray with me if you love first the L-RD our G-D and love BBC to stand as a pure bride.<BR/><BR/>Peace BBCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166643841371254972006-12-20T13:44:00.000-06:002006-12-20T13:44:00.000-06:00I am not OK with molester remaining on staff. I b...I am not OK with molester remaining on staff. I believe that Gaines should have let him go immediately in June. So have the issue with Gaines, not Miller or any of these other men who continually sacrifice themselves for the good of the church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166643656114707772006-12-20T13:40:00.000-06:002006-12-20T13:40:00.000-06:00Miller was required to handle the way he did to pr...Miller was required to handle the way he did to protect the church for legal reasons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166643408252950092006-12-20T13:36:00.000-06:002006-12-20T13:36:00.000-06:00To 'Rational'Bryan Miller knew for 2 weeks. As Ch...To 'Rational'<BR/>Bryan Miller knew for 2 weeks. As Chairman of the Deacons, he should have IMMEDIATELY pushed for action. Why did he not??? Are you ok with child molesters being on staff? Would he allow a staff member at ECS to remain on staff for 2 minutes, let alone 2 weeks, if the person CONFESSED to being a molester? God help you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166642834440567292006-12-20T13:27:00.000-06:002006-12-20T13:27:00.000-06:00To pass blame on B. Miller for this is absurd. No...To pass blame on B. Miller for this is absurd. Not only did he not know about this until 2 weeks ago, but he had to put Williams on leave for legal reasons to protect the church. I'm sick of people who don't understand what they are talking about or know any facts asking for innocent goldy men to resign when there are a few other men who have done wrong. If you were hired and qualified for a job that would greatly help your company or church and then found out soon after that your boss had made mistakes long before you started, would you expect to be blamed and asked to resign? That's ridiculous. Why tear down Goldly leaders that will be vital to the church recovery from all of this regardless of what happens with the pastor's fate? <BR/><BR/>Facts only please - it would be nice if you had some. I pray God has mercy on you for the slander of these godly men!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166636862192287722006-12-20T11:47:00.000-06:002006-12-20T11:47:00.000-06:00swttGreat post (although, as someone else said, Br...swtt<BR/><BR/>Great post (although, as someone else said, Bryan Miller now gets the honors).<BR/><BR/>Love ya, man!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166636772618197332006-12-20T11:46:00.000-06:002006-12-20T11:46:00.000-06:00DavidWow- great list. Thanks for that recap :)David<BR/><BR/>Wow- great list. Thanks for that recap :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166632920526951262006-12-20T10:42:00.000-06:002006-12-20T10:42:00.000-06:00Yes, Bryan Miller is the new Chairman of the Deaco...Yes, Bryan Miller is the new Chairman of the Deacons.<BR/><BR/>He is also President of ECS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166632882605328342006-12-20T10:41:00.000-06:002006-12-20T10:41:00.000-06:00david,Thanks for the list - I hope you had that wr...david,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the list - I hope you had that written down somewhere. I got a headache from just reading it. <BR/><BR/>Charis,<BR/><BR/>I hope you see the building of issues. First was an "itty bitty" fence, now we're dealing with child molestation. What's next? Wait, don't answer that - I don't think I want to know.<BR/><BR/>KarenKarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11805543641376648431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166632727335230732006-12-20T10:38:00.000-06:002006-12-20T10:38:00.000-06:00Thank you, Karen and DavidThank you, Karen and DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166632122302804202006-12-20T10:28:00.000-06:002006-12-20T10:28:00.000-06:00Please add to David's list that as Steve Gaines re...Please add to David's list that as Steve Gaines reached his 1 year anniversary at BBC, he was quoted in the Messager as saying he loved it when people said "amen" during his sermons. This was after his dream about Mark Kelly saying "amen" too much.<BR/><BR/>KarenKarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11805543641376648431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166631820964816562006-12-20T10:23:00.000-06:002006-12-20T10:23:00.000-06:00SWTT,I know they re-elected deacons and the new Ch...SWTT,<BR/><BR/>I know they re-elected deacons and the new Chairman is Bryan Miller (I'm right on that, aren't I?). It is weird that Chuck's so quiet. Well, no words speak volumes, do they not?<BR/><BR/>KarenKarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11805543641376648431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166631770528682892006-12-20T10:22:00.000-06:002006-12-20T10:22:00.000-06:00David,The love letter was received on December 19t...David,<BR/><BR/>The love letter was received on December 19th. :-)New BBC Open Forumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18300115421477555376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36564514.post-1166631291911222972006-12-20T10:14:00.000-06:002006-12-20T10:14:00.000-06:00What happened to Chuck Taylor, who is chairman of ...What happened to Chuck Taylor, who is chairman of the deacons? Where is the leadership? Please Chuck, address the church Sunday and let us know how Steve Gaines is going to be handled. Silence from the Chairman of the Deacons is not acceptable and is not being a leader.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com